Rivet counting v actually enjoying your hobby

[Elvinley]

I felt prompted to begin this new thread after reading a letter in a recent BRM about the need for accuracy when it comes to signalling a layout. The writer was critisizing the fact some people don't paint all the parts of their signals correctly. I know we can all be rivet countish at times but generally I feel it takes away from the enjoyment of running our own imaginary railways. Railway modelling will always need a degree of imagination and so it should. I think magazines can do a lot to foster these opinions with reviewers becoming more and more pedantic. I still enjoy watching a train going around an oval on the carpet personally, even though I have a fully functioning layout. The sheer enjoyment James May was experiencing on one of his Toy Stories at his non-scenic train set can be a lesson to us all.

[Tank]

For me, I like to see people who dedicate their time to making a model as accurate as they can, and they can look superb.  However, in 5 years time certain will look dated when a new item is manufactured, or new materials become available.  For me personally I like everything to look in scale, and I'm not fussed about weathering and too much detail.  I enjoy everyone's efforts on here, and the fact that people have a go at something is what should be commended.

[longbridge]

I have nothing against rivet counters so long as they don't get stuck into those that are not that way inclined, by the same token I don't think people should get stuck into those that are perfectionists.

Obviously we all get a kick out of this great hobby or we wouldn't be involved in it, I agree with Chris its nice to see a scratch built loco or whatever that is as close to perfect as possible but I also enjoy watching a Thomas layout just as much.

[Elvinley]

@Tank- I agree with that. I think trying your best is always a good policy. In one of the current mags there is an amazing shed scene and the author of the article's top tip is to be happy with your own modelling. I think that is a great piece of advice as we all have differing abilities and differing standards. I just don't like the overly critical approach. The person who is an expert on signalling will have areas he is not such an expert on and may find other people feeling the same about his work.

[Elvinley]

@oldrailbug - it was the critical approach that annoyed me about the letter. I also like to see detailed models.

[tcinbg]

I think trying your best is always a good policy.

Absolutely agree with that.

It is the small details that make a layout look bad for me. Lamp posts on platforms not upright, back scenes that don't join up very well, excessive speed when shunting, trains coming to a dead stop at stations and signals, the sort of things that are not realistic.

[Lawrence]

There is a place in our hobby for extreme prototype modellers, just don't sit them next to me please 

There are a wide range of factors that decree how someone models, ability, budget, space, resources and research materials are probably the biggest.

Ultimately it is your model railway, it is up to you what you do with it and you should not be swayed by the blinkered views of anyone else irrespective of what camp they are in.  And if you want good technical advice you can always join an excellent, informative and friendly forum to garner such advice 

I think it may have been oldrailbug who had scratchbuilt some wacky locos, it was so refreshing, he had created a whole new world, and sometimes you need things like that to keep your modelling juices flowing

[Newportnobby]

There will always be the perfectionists who wish to recreate a perfect miniature masterpiece. That is their wish and we have to respect it. My stance is that I'm not too bothered about the intricate details, as long as it looks OK - it is OK. If I have a rake of 6 x MK1 maroon coaches I really am not fussed that the correct prototypical carriages are in that rake. I have a train of 19 x 21t hoppers but do I really care the running numbers are all the same? Not on your life! Am I too worried the head code showing on my Hymek is not correct - nah.
As long as it looks OK and pleases me, I'm happy

[Irish Padre]

In his biography of Dr Johnson, Boswell  once observed that Irishmen suffer from 'a hurry of ideas'. With that caveat in mind, here goes!

All modelling involves a compromise - even a 5" gauge steam loco may require overscale cab fittings in order to be employable, and in the smaller scales we have to live with the fact that our locos are propelled by small electric motors - hardly prototypical!

There is a sliding scale of accuracy and modelling needs to be a broad church and hopefully we will all move up the scale as we spend more time in the hobby. But it's a matter of personal preference -  and respect for each others' efforts. There will always be those who are better at detail and scenery, or whose bent is to model a particular branch as it was at 09:30 on 29th June 1935 - we can applaud their efforts and be inspired by them.

And, in their own way, isn't the kid blasting out 'Three Blind Mice' on a recorder a musician just as much as Julian Lloyd Webber? You might not want a CD of it, but good on them for trying.

I'd rather see someone modelling 'badly' than not at all, which is why I do it................

Now, where's my recorder?....................................................

[EtchedPixels]

Rivet counting is to me part of enjoying the hobby. I'm really pleased my LB&SCR ballast wagon is (or should be) rivet perfect and I had great fun doing that.

What there isn't a place IMHO for is the 'and that makes me superior' attitude you now and then find. Most of the rivet counters I know are not like that though. They are often the ones writing detailing articles or demonstrating techniques and suggesting books and sources to others.

Alan

[moogle]

I'm all for enjoying the hobby as if you don't enjoy a hobby, why do it?
That said, some people get their enjoyment from researching/modelling the minutest detail.
And good luck to them.

Personally I go for the overall look. But that is probably just the artist in me!
Capturing the atmosphere and character of what I'm modelling is the most important part.
I keep everything in scale rather than to scale.
If it looks right to me it is right to me! 
Yes, I am a bit of a perfectionist but only in achieving the above.
Modelling the drivers mug of tea with two lumps of sugar beside it?
Am I bothered...   

[Newportnobby]

Most of the rivet counters I know are not like that though. They are often the ones writing detailing articles or demonstrating techniques and suggesting books and sources to others.

Alan

And all our modelling hobbies would be a poorer world without them Experience is always welcome whatever we're doing from those who have boldly gone before. Well said, sir.

[guest311]

What there isn't a place IMHO for is the 'and that makes me superior' attitude you now and then find. Most of the rivet counters I know are not like that though. They are often the ones writing detailing articles or demonstrating techniques and suggesting books and sources to others.

If I may add my thoughts, I think EP has hit the nail on the head.

If I'm modelling a layout set in 1988, and someone says to me "that loco had the buffer beams repainted in nov 1987, you're wrong" it would get my back right up.

But if he said it as "I saw a photo of that loco in jan 1988 and the buffers had been repainted, would you me to e-mail you a copy" I would be chuffed to add to my info.

So basically what I suppose I'm saying is that it's HOW it is said, whether to demean or offer help.

I don't PERSONNALY worry if there are the right number of rivets on my ballast wagon, but I have nothing but respect for the person who can make that model an exact miniature, and in truth envy for their knowledge, eyesight and manual dexterity.

So I will continue to enjoy the products of others efforts, but if I cannot achieve the same quality then I can live with it, if all else fails my layout will be run under Rule 1.

Perhaps we use the wrong term, should "rivet counters" be replaced with "nit pickers" ?

Illegitimae non carborundum   ..........................................don't let the b------s grind you down.

rant over, where's the kettle

class37025

[Elvinley]

Good comments from everyone. I think that the attitude is the crux of the matter. As long as the modeller is enjoying their hobby rather than knocking other people's attempts, that is fine. Nothing is perfect and no model can be a perfect representation. You could find fault in any model. I think as soon as things stop being enjoyable, but more obsessive, then it is time to step back a little.

[Newportnobby]

Whilst completely understanding the logic/reasoning behind the OP, it is probably a misnomer to ask 'Rivet counting v actually enjoying your hobby', as it is clear you can do both rather than choose one or t'other. It is a great topic and I am enjoying seeing who does one or the other or both, but as Elvinley has said, it comes down to attitude and the way things are said.
I have absolutely no objection to anyone calling me a to**er, as long as they are prepared to tell me why I am a to**er and debate the fact. Then I can make my own mind up if I am one or not