Class 50, Class 59, prototype HST, Battle of Britain will be shelved for now

[Newportnobby]

Bulleid light pacifics being delayed? Would anyone notice?
I doubt it will happen but I'd love to see Farish pick this up and run with it. There must be a host of the lighter spam can fans so disappointed

[njee20]

Shame (and a bit of a surprise) about the 50, struggling to be shocked about the other two, although I'd have had several 59s no doubt.

Would love a later-NSE 50, but it would be a 100% rule one purchase. The CJM offering is utterly gorgeous (one of his best IMO), but too expensive for me!

Would be interesting to test the water there I suspect @red_death! I guess the obvious 'hurdle' is the re-furbished/original condition, but I suspect it would have broad appeal as a model.

[Smiffy]

There is no indication on the length of the delays - potentially this could be indefinitely, but anyone jumping in with an alternative needs to be wary of Dapol then bringing forward the model to protect their investment.

Frustrating and messy, best to wait to see what is posted over the next few weeks whilst we punters speculate and hope.

Iain

[PLD]

If Dapol feel the Light Pacifics won't sell, then N-gauge looks to be in some pretty pretty serious trouble.

As to the West Country/BoB, I wonder if Farish will grasp the opportunity

If reports from some retailers are accurate, Farish's MN's are not selling well - being outsold 3 or 4 to 1 by other Pacifics such as the LNER A1s and A2s and LMS Duchesses... Could Dapol have received similar feedback and that have influenced the decision??
IF that is the case, would Farish want to risk another SR Pacific that to the non-Southern modeller is barely different to, and would mostly only abstract sales from their existing model??

Dapol announced towards the end of last year that they were having problems with the chassis. They wanted to develop a new drive-train (presumably to catch up with Farish's new coreless drive) and the Bulleids were to be the first to use this. Apparently the disappointment was sufficient to send them back to the drawing board (presumably with the design costs that would entail). I suspect that this is why the Light Pacifics have been parked.

To halt development so soon after that previous announcement does seem a bit strange so I don't think it is the entire reason. I would suspect there is some additional factor such as revised downwards sales projections...

Pity about the prototype HST but after the 4mm one being postponed I half expected this.

I was looking forward to the 59 and prototype HST (though I thought the way Dapol did expressions of interest was doomed to fail

Yes - it was only a matter of how and when they played that one out...

The only realistic way it was ever likely to be delivered was a pre-paid subscription/crowd-funding model. - More Revolution's territory I'd say

Opportunity for a crowdfunded class 50 or 59 maybe?

Is DJM still making a 59 in oo?

I'll lay odds on him announcing at least one model off the list be the end of the year...

[Byegad]

Sorry, but rather than blame Brexit, world conditions or the state of the pitch at Wembley, shouldn't Dapol admit that their poor quality control has brought them to the point where they're in trouble?
I own 7 Dapol locomotives, 2 Diesel the rest steam. But I've purchased 11. Two of the Steam loco's were bought second hand after seeing them run. take those out of the equation and for new Dapol Steamers, I have returned more than half of the steam locos I've bought new. This is bad business. I certainly won't be buying a new Dapol Steam loco anytime soon, in fact I've cancelled the three I had on pre-order.
Multiply this across the hobby and Dapol announce they have issues? No poo sherlock!

[DJM Dave]

Whilst i'd love to take up the challenge with the 50 or 59 or heck even my baby while i was there the BOB/WC, i wont be.

As mentioned anyone now taking on board those loco's would be taking a big gamble unless they had a factory underwriting the development and tooling and keeping Schtumm until it was ready for production and could show deco samples.

That would be the only way. Otherwise it's too public and could cause a face (or race) off which with 2 identical loco's being made in N, as per the B1 way back in the day, and will leave a poor taste in either parties mouth, and pocket.

Nope, i'm going to plod on, do what i've got on the go and announced, and clear those before i announce anything more (unless it's for 3rd parties and not a DJM funded project).
I'n fact i cannot even see any more crowdfunded enterprises after the King.

[Karhedron]

Sorry, but rather than blame Brexit, world conditions or the state of the pitch at Wembley, shouldn't Dapol admit that their poor quality control has brought them to the point where they're in trouble?

I have bought several Dapol locos over the years. Only 1 has failed (overheated motor) which was promptly replaced under warranty. Hattons stated a few years ago that the return rate for Dapol was about the same as for Farish.

Their Class 68s seem to have been selling well (despite the livery issue with the DRS version). I don't think the problem is that Dapol models aren't selling, I think the problem is that they have been operating on thin margins in order to compete with Farish in terms of price. Dapol are much smaller and don't have a big parent like Kader behind them so a change in economic circumstances has hit them disproportionately hard.

The N gauge market is very sensitive to price. O Gauge modellers (and to a lesser extent OO) seem more willing to fork out for models which means Dapol can continue to sell with a a decent margin if they concentrate on larger scales. Don't forget that their main developer, Richard Webster, founded Lionheart trains which specialises in O Gauge models. I think what we are seeing is partly a consequence of the change in staff.

[Byegad]

I suspect that both Dapol and Graham Farish have spent a lot of money on detailing their models.
However the last two new locomotives I have bought are from Union Mills. Yes UM locos lack the detailing we see on GF and Dapol locos, but they run from new, without issues and dramas, and continue to do so for many a year. Plus any UM loco will out haul the opposition.

[Newportnobby]

Well,  Dapol.
In a fit of pique I've cancelled my pre order and just bought a Farish MN from Trackshack at a price that beats all and with free postage too.
BR rebuilt 'Spitfire' after the Lewisham crash in 1957 and that was what I had on pre order. I can't see Dapol getting any more of my money as they just can't seem to get anything right.

[Roy L S]

If Dapol feel the Light Pacifics won't sell, then N-gauge looks to be in some pretty pretty serious trouble.

As to the West Country/BoB, I wonder if Farish will grasp the opportunity

If reports from some retailers are accurate, Farish's MN's are not selling well - being outsold 3 or 4 to 1 by other Pacifics such as the LNER A1s and A2s and LMS Duchesses... Could Dapol have received similar feedback and that have influenced the decision??
IF that is the case, would Farish want to risk another SR Pacific that to the non-Southern modeller is barely different to, and would mostly only abstract sales from their existing model??

Dapol announced towards the end of last year that they were having problems with the chassis. They wanted to develop a new drive-train (presumably to catch up with Farish's new coreless drive) and the Bulleids were to be the first to use this. Apparently the disappointment was sufficient to send them back to the drawing board (presumably with the design costs that would entail). I suspect that this is why the Light Pacifics have been parked.

To halt development so soon after that previous announcement does seem a bit strange so I don't think it is the entire reason. I would suspect there is some additional factor such as revised downwards sales projections...

Pity about the prototype HST but after the 4mm one being postponed I half expected this.

I was looking forward to the 59 and prototype HST (though I thought the way Dapol did expressions of interest was doomed to fail

Yes - it was only a matter of how and when they played that one out...

The only realistic way it was ever likely to be delivered was a pre-paid subscription/crowd-funding model. - More Revolution's territory I'd say

Opportunity for a crowdfunded class 50 or 59 maybe?

Is DJM still making a 59 in oo?

I'll lay odds on him announcing at least one model off the list be the end of the year...

The Streamlined MN is, I would suggest likely to be the least popular of all the Bullied Pacifics and probably no barometer by which to measure potential success of either of the Light Pacifics if produced in N.

Roy

[Roy L S]

I suspect that both Dapol and Graham Farish have spent a lot of money on detailing their models.
However the last two new locomotives I have bought are from Union Mills. Yes UM locos lack the detailing we see on GF and Dapol locos, but they run from new, without issues and dramas, and continue to do so for many a year. Plus any UM loco will out haul the opposition.

I don't think anyone really wants a return to the (by modern standards) toy like diecast metal bodies bereft of separate detail or the near enough is good enough approach to chassis/wheel dimensions of Poole model designs.

Union Mills models are fine as far as they go but should in my view be considered a choice rather than any kind of benchmark.

Regards

Roy

[Skyline2uk]

This is probably the most self-edited and self censored post I have ever posted on the NGF. There are rules on this forum for a reason and I intend to stick to them. So here goes;

I am saddened by this statement but not surprised. I have no reason to doubt the reasons given, my personal Dapol fleet is 100% in terms of "good ones" and I simply adore the detail on my 56/58/26.

My big concern is the state of the Graham Farish (Bachman) range as (please correct me on this if needed) they are also manufactured in China? I worry the same circumstances could thus apply to them.

The small silver lining is the fact that Revolution have sent a newsletter confirming tooling has started on the 92s.

I will let @red_death comment / correct me, but I get the impression the Revolution funding model is better protected against currency fluctuations? I believe the practice of taking deposits is common place in the US / Canada (Rapido for example) and if that is the way UK models need to go, I personally am ok with that.

Skyline2uk

[RailGooner]

Well now, I'm going to view this glass as half full and take at least three real positives from this thread...

#1

.. Coupled with this statement is also an apology from me. Dapol as a company has undoubtedly over announced products in the past which has led to this situation. The tendency to be overly optimistic about development times and unrealistic about what can be achieved has been prevalent. It is our intention that any new models announced from now on will have been researched and developed to an extent that the model will be in store within 14 months of being made public. ...

#2

.. It is also our intention to make more products at our own factory in the UK. This is a slow process with huge learning challenges, however we all at Dapol are committed to this and are proud of what we make in our small factory in Chirk. ...

#3

Whilst i'd love to take up the challenge with the 50 or 59 or heck even my baby while i was there the BOB/WC, i wont be.

As mentioned anyone now taking on board those loco's would be taking a big gamble unless they had a factory underwriting the development and tooling and keeping Schtumm until it was ready for production and could show deco samples.

That would be the only way. Otherwise it's too public and could cause a face (or race) off which with 2 identical loco's being made in N, as per the B1 way back in the day, and will leave a poor taste in either parties mouth, and pocket.

Nope, i'm going to plod on, do what i've got on the go and announced, and clear those before i announce anything more (unless it's for 3rd parties and not a DJM funded project).
I'n fact i cannot even see any more crowdfunded enterprises after the King.

[railsquid]

Well if it's going to be one of *those* threads... I've purchased a total of 9 brand new Dapol locos/railcars. One sent back for repair (Class 52, total failure), one sent back for replacement (Class 33, total lemon) and two with directional lighting failures (Class 52 and Class 22), which I can't be bothered to send back (one day I'll get a round tuit and the soldering iron out...). As a long-distance purchaser I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that my second-hand purchases have been much more reliable, which is good for my wallet but maybe not Dapol. I'd still happily shell out normal retail price for a class 86 in BR blue (these have so far proven reliable).

Reliability issues aside they do produce some beautiful locos.

[woodbury22uk]

As well as RailGooner's positives we still have some decent new releases planned by Dapol which look to be still arriving.

A comprehensive programme of HSTs and Mk3 coaches;
Class 67 - reliveries;
Class 68 - given the early success in 00 gauge I would be very surprised to see them pull this one back.
Class 142 at last.

Hopefully some of the modern wagons will escape the knife too.