Reference book needed

[PeteW]

Wasn't sure if this is the appropriate sub-forum, but I'm sure one of the mods will move if necessary .

Can anyone recommend a book that has drawings of the many small steam engines of British heritage? I'm thinking particularly about 0-4-0s, Pecketts, Manning-Wardles, Hudswell-Clarkes, and the like? After a general rummage around Google, and examining several titles on Amazon, I'm a bit lost - they don't generally say what engines are included and the bigger locos that seem to attract most are just not my cup of tea.

There are, of course, plenty of photos on the Internet but it can be hard to estimate dimensions. And, yes, I'm thinking scratchbuilding tiny locos, which may be utter folly but a man's got to follow his dream, eh?

[maridunian]

Hi Pete

I haven't found a comprehensive book with drawings yet, but often refer to Working and Preserved Industrial Locomotives by Peter Tuffrey (Fonthill Media), for photographs.

Lots of Peckett stuff, including drawings of 2 models, can be found at http://www.martynbane.co.uk/index-old.htm

Please do post details of anything you find back here!

Mike

[martyn]

Hi Pete W;
I haven't looked closely, but try the Industrial Railway Society-they may have something suitable;

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/books/books.htm

HTH

Martyn

[PeteW]

Lots of Peckett stuff, including drawings of 2 models, can be found at http://www.martynbane.co.uk/index-old.htm

Wow, that's a great link, for which many thanks. And, yes, I'll certainly add anything I find. And more thanks for your thread (which I linked recently) about modifying Arnold 0-6-0s to 0-4-0s, which is what sent me stumbling down this path.

[PeteW]

Hi Pete W;
I haven't looked closely, but try the Industrial Railway Society-they may have something suitable;

Martyn, thanks for that, and I'm sure that the IRS does have much of interest. Unfortunately, so far as I can see their books on the relevant locomotives appear to be sold out and out of print. They do have a lot of interesting archive photography, but for a newcomer to the subject like me the photographs are of limited help when it comes to planning a scratchbuilt model. Most of my experience is in aircraft modelling where 3-views with overall dimensions are readily available. Perhaps I need to develop a new set of tools and techniques!

[martyn]

Pete;
Sorry there was nothing suitable-as I said, I hadn't checked what was available, but thought there might be.
Is it worth trying to check some of the museums near the former loco builders for their archives? I appreciate this might be hard work-but I think that the Manchester Museum of Technology (?) has Beyer Peacock records, and possibly Glasgow might have those for such as North British? Newcastle for Robert Stephenson and Hawthorns? I don't know.
Have you thought about trying to obtain the IRS out of print books via your library? I've done this in the past for other subjects.
HTH
Martyn

[maridunian]

.. for a newcomer to the subject like me the photographs are of limited help when it comes to planning a scratchbuilt model. Most of my experience is in aircraft modelling where 3-views with overall dimensions are readily available. Perhaps I need to develop a new set of tools and techniques!

Weeell, I wouldn't discount photos completely ....

Estimating dimensions from photographs (especially manufacturers' prototype photos) is fairly straightforward. Some dimensions might be available - wheel diameter and wheelbase, for example, and sometimes 'length over headstocks' (ie buffer beams). We know a few other dimensions too:

• Loading gauges determine that UK locomotives are rarely more than 13 ft tall or 9 ft wide
• UK Standard gauge buffer centres should be ~ 1,054 mm (3ft 5.5in) from rail top and 1,727 mm (5ft 8in) apart
• UK Standard gauge rails are 1435 mm (4ft 8.5 in) apart

So, scanning/tracing a side/head-on photograph onto squared paper and drawing some datum lines on that will allow unknown dimensions to be guestimated. It's not as if all RTR models are precision designs ...

We are also empowered by Rule 1 - it's your railway and Peco's standard get-out from normal viewing distances!

Mike

[RailGooner]

.. scanning/tracing a side/head-on photograph onto squared paper and drawing some datum lines on that will allow unknown dimensions to be guestimated ...

It's possible to make such calculations in software. GIMP is free and has this capability.

[PeteW]

Thanks, chaps. What I really need is to put in some concerted effort and see what can be done. As for Gimp, I've tried it a few times over the years but given up in frustration; I used Photoshop for the best part of 20 years when my employers were paying for it, but I can't justify the price for what little use I'd give it. I downloaded and installed Paint.net last week but haven't got to grips with it yet; ditto Inkscape. I find my ability to wrestle with new software diminishes with every passing year!

And don't worry - whatever I do, it won't be 'finescale'. My eyes and fingers aren't up to that in a model that will be about 40mm long and about half that tall. In aviation modelling we call it 'stand-off scale' - the further off you stand, the more scale it looks .

[maridunian]

I think Photoshop Express is free, and ~ Elements and the whole package can be tried for free. Personally I've always used PowerPoint for drawings, including drawing on photos  ...

Mike

[Rowlie]

I have a couple of industrial loco books, but neither have any drawings.  Then I remembered Railway Modeller used to (and maybe still do) print loco drawings, found one of the Avonside B3 class 0-6-0ST in October 1975 magazine, December 1975 has a 4' 3/8" gauge 0-4-0ST by Manning Wardle.
I've not checked any other years I'm afraid.  My two books are Industrial Steam locomotives by Victor Hall 1977, and Industrial Steam in the '50s and '60s by Eric Sanford 2004.
Hope this helps

[PeteW]

Thanks Rowlie. Scale drawings for the Bagnall and Peckett 0-4-0s are available online, and I found a list of scale drawings in various British rail model mags on another forum (link available if it doesn't breach local etiquette). Of course, acquiring back issues is a different kettle of fish.

But on further consideration - and at least in the short term - one or two such engines will do me fine, and the online plans for the Bagnall/Peckett will take care of that. Just have to build the critters now!

[Rowlie]

Hi PeteW, glad you managed to sort something out, look forward to seeing them in due course.