CJM Old Models...Are they worth it?

[sparky]

Just was browsing flea bay earlier and there is a host of models from CJM up for sale. While they look OK they look to me a bit chunky and not well detailed compared to new releases...The class 37 for sale was going for over 300 quid....Are they really worth buying nowadays as they have no lights and are not DCC....What makes these models so special?

[njee20]

If they're from AntiqueToys then avoid!

Chris started out doing repaint of Farish models. They're great repaints, but they're Poole era Farish models, with all the problems and crude detailing that  comes with them.

I wouldn't buy an old version of anything Farish have updated; 37/47 etc, the latest Farish offering will be a better model, and you could get it repainted professionally for less.

The more recent stuff with a Saturn chassis are far better, for me I'd still only consider models where a RTR version isn't available for 1/4 the price; 50, 59, 89 etc.

I also think there's a significant variation in his models. I went to Warley a few years ago after a nice bonus at work planning to buy a 92, but when I looked I didn't think they were that good (controversial I'm sure). The painted lights looked very toy like to me, not even being glazed, the cantrail stripe wasn't perfectly straight either. It was a nice model, but I'd expect RTR to be better, and far cheaper. Indeed, I'm buying five Revolution 92s and they're cheaper than the one CJM one would have been.

Conversely I think his 50 is absolutely stunning. The lights are behind lenses, so look far more realistic, you get the stunning fidelity of the grills, fans and the body side louvres. I would seriously consider one of those.

[Dorsetmike]

The other consideration is the seller that seems to have an inexhaustible supply at grossly inflated prices  whose name appears frequently on the Ebay madness thread, one Antiquetoys.

[davidinyork]

I saw them too (this is a different seller, who auctions at reasonable starting prices) - the early ones are mostly just good-quality repaints of standard Farish models, so probably worth a bit more than the equivalent factory-standard model, but not a lot more - which seems to be reflected in the prices they sell for (apart from the Class 37s, which for some reason seem to attract a lot of bids).

Antiquetoys doesn't seem to have an inexhaustible supply - he just appears to list the same ones month after month because nobody buys them! They are all 'simply stunning', though!

[porkie]

To be truthful I wouldn't touch them unless they we're the later model on saturn chassis.

Their are plenty of talented Resprayers. Who could do it on a new loco for less. I

[broadsword]

Simple answer, no , unless you want to put your model in a glass case,
how much of the detail will you see when it's running ?
(eg choice of windscreen wipers ?)

As for Antiquetoys his descriptions are a joke.

[njee20]

And again, most of the old CJM models aren't really CJM Models anyway! Of those on eBay only the 92, the 73 and possibly the 47 are actually CJM models, and the 47 falls short of the current Farish model in detail IMO. The 20s and 31s are just repaints AFAIK.

[msr]

The 31s might not be Farish at all but TPM bodies on Bachmann SD40 chasses. The TPM bodies are cast resin and have deeper grilles, and are dimensionally more accurate that the contemporary Farish models. However, the newly released Bachmann-Farish 31s are in a different league.

[njee20]

Ah yes, I think you're right, point still stands.

[davidinyork]

The 31s might not be Farish at all but TPM bodies on Bachmann SD40 chasses. The TPM bodies are cast resin and have deeper grilles, and are dimensionally more accurate that the contemporary Farish models. However, the newly released Bachmann-Farish 31s are in a different league.

From looking at details of ebay that seems to be right, although I wasn't sure what the chassis was. I thought the SD40 was quite a large loco, much larger than a 31 - presumably the chassis only takes up part of the inside of the bodyshell on the SD40.

[njee20]

They're obviously larger than a 31, but they're 1:160, so not too horrendously oversized.

[msr]

This link shows the chassis base beneath a TPM-bodied Class 31:
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=1572976&image=730283201&images=730283178,730283180,730283183,730283195,730283197,730283198,730283200,730283201&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

[Railbank]

it's down to the old adages "it is only worth what someone is prepared to pay" and in the case of that well known internet auction site "buyer beware" it might not be what you think it is!

As to CJM he is and continues to be a very good executioner of resprays and supplier of useful missing models in the n gauge world. As his business has matured the models got better and better in his range. Yes they are astronomically expensive but this is how he earns his crust and there is a loyal customer base to support this as he has probably been going the longest when many others have come and fell by the wayside.

As to if the current market offerings are worth the prices paid, for me the early items, Farish Poole bodies and mechanisms, are not really worth a great premium over standard Farish models of the time. I have long held a CJM/Poole class 20 in my fleet but bought second hand years ago for very reasonable money, can I be sure its truly by CJM? no I cannot. it's in a CJM box but other than a good quality respray nothing else distinguishes it from many other resprays of the time. CJM himself at one time on his web pages carried a disclaimer that many internet auction site offerings cannot be guaranteed as being by him so buyer beware.

The great improvement for CJM was and remains his bespoke Saturn chassis, small scale manufacture and UK assembly reflects the prices charged. Whilst allegedly superb runners and good looking models personally I cannot see the value given the recent releases by Bachmann Farish, Dapol and now Revolution but these have been released using large scale factory runs so keeping the manufacturing cost in check.

As I said at the start each to his own as the supposed value is only appreciated by the buyer and what they are prepared to pay - remember the recent Dapol Mk3 in RTC livery went for £106 - crazy to most - me included but obviously desirable by some.

Oh well back to n gauging.

[ntpntpntp]

I can certainly vouch for the Saturn chassis in my CJM 59 model dating from 2000, absolutely superb and with a really effective flywheel.    Yes, they literally fly - I've seen one accidentally zoom off the end of a club layout when Chris brought some round for testing one night many years ago      :'( 

[ntpntpntp]

Been going through my crate of British N this evening, giving all the locos a quick run up-and down to stir the oil (otherwise they don't get to run as my main interest is Continental).   Can't believe I have five 73 electro-diesels, four Dapols (all of which have been picked up for stupid cheap prices like £10) and my excellent CJM Pullman 73 Royal Alex. 

Incredible to think the CJM is 20 years old, the sleeve says I bought it in October '97. I think it cost £199, so obviously not cheap at the time.   Expert paint and lining job, and so much better running than my Dapols, although I don't think this is a Saturn chassis - looks like based on a Kato split-frame design.  Even more flywheel effect than my 59!