I'm not having a moan, please don't get me wrong, I just thought this was quite amusing.....especially as it's an n gauge forum lol!.......I was looking for a particular layout thread and after typing n gauge (First part of the thread title) etc etc it said in Red letters each word must be at least Two characters long! ??? Oh well, that's put paid to that search then!! :confused1:
Cheers,
Jim.
And just how many threads are there on non-n gauge subjects on an n-gauge forum?? ??? :hmmm:
Quote from: PLD on March 28, 2017, 08:15:40 PM
And just how many threads are there on non-n gauge subjects on an n-gauge forum?? ??? :hmmm:
2,793
I'm guessing. :hmmm:
lol! It's no problem, i'll just search through the layout thread pages until I find it, :idea:
Joking aside Jimbo, try opening the Layout Construction board and do a search for a word or words that you associate with the thread your looking for. Just keep the search to 'This board' in the drop down box to the fit of the search field (it defaults to it anyway) rather than the entire Forum to limit the answers to most likely candidates. If you find nothing that fits, try the same on the Layout Planning board.
Or post details here as someone may recognise what you are looking for.
:)
I've never found an inbuilt search on any forum that's anything short of rubbish. Use google. Add "site:ngaugeforum.co.uk" somewhere to only pull results from here.
Quote from: njee20 on March 29, 2017, 08:15:31 AM
I've never found an inbuilt search on any forum that's anything short of rubbish. Use google. Add "site:ngaugeforum.co.uk" somewhere to only pull results from here.
I don't think search is rubbish njee. OK the forum search engine is not as good as a google search but if you use the technique Daffy proposes then my experience is that you can find what you want most of the time.
However, it could be difficult for newbies to get their head round the search function.
For this reason if someone asks the forum a question I think we should help them find the answer (directly or via search), like we all generally do, and perhaps avoid telling them 'just use the search facility'. I'm not accusing you of doing this by the way - just a general statement.
:beers:
[/quote]
However, it could be difficult for newbies to get their head round the search function.
For this reason if someone asks the forum a question I think we should help them find the answer (directly or via search), like we all generally do, and perhaps avoid telling them 'just use the search facility'. I'm not accusing you of doing this by the way - just a general statement.
:beers:
[/quote]
As a relative "newbie" thank you for recognising "our" pain. It's highly frustrating when you're told "search the forum for x,y,z". It's not that people aren't being helpful, but more a case that "knowing" the article someone needs to see, is completely different from trying to find the article in question. A useful thing to do, and I appreciate that it involves more work for the "helper", would be to post a link to the relevant article. The future of any hobby/forum is to keep bringing people in at the bottom to "replace" (I mean no disrespect with that word) those that we inevitably and sadly lose from the top.
:thankyousign:
As a moderator, I see stuff like this a lot.
I agree that a link to a site is helpful and convenient, however this may be difficult for a new member.
Living where I do, I check out a lot of posts on my phone, and just putting links on via that is occasionally dodgy.
However, we appreciate the inputs for improvement! :thumbsup:
I never direct people to "do a search" as I think it's a very frustrating thing to be told. Unless it's something which is truly a frequent question.
It's not a criticism of the forum that the search is poor, I've never actually tried it, Google is going to be infinitely better than anything native, it's their business after all! You can search for single characters if you want to return every thread too!
Quote from: Only Me on March 29, 2017, 08:55:58 AM
A search of a single letter would put a huge strain on the back end database, it's set like that for a reason........ A single letter search (which is essentially what you are suggesting above) would return the letter "N" in every word in every thread..... as someone else points out, if you don't like the way the search bar functions then please use the alternative methods, we'd rather keep the site running than allow single letter searches :D which would slow the site down to being unuseable, which in turn would generate a new thread on "the forum is slow"....
:doh: :doh: :doh: :D :D :D :D :D
Thanks, that's something that didn't occur to my technophobic mind but makes perfect sense now you mention it!.....it's not a problem at all It just tickled me really! The search facility works fine for me otherwise.........it just takes me a little longer than most people! :dunce:, patience is the key I think.....thanks folks!
Quote from: njee20 on March 29, 2017, 10:56:08 AM
I never direct people to "do a search" as I think it's a very frustrating thing to be told. Unless it's something which is truly a frequent question.
It's not a criticism of the forum that the search is poor, I've never actually tried it, Google is going to be infinitely better than anything native, it's their business after all! You can search for single characters if you want to return every thread too!
I don't think that the search function is that bad. The "problem" is that the forum is exceptionally large in comparison to most other forums, is very active and has a huge amount of data in its pages, hence it feels a little like looking for a needle in a pile of needles when you search.
Regarding the original post, if you use
"N gauge"
exactly as typed above, with double quotes, it works fine.
But it'll still return thousands of results, whilst excluding N-gauge, Ngauge, 'N' gauge etc etc.
I am an expert in searching - early working life as a Librarian, then a degree course, then just a lifelong fascination in the subject. I have often been told I have a knack for searching, be it online, or with real things (like a single grey file in a room full of grey files), but in fact it is just the application of logic and, with the internet, the additional use of of a few basic rules.
In my experience many folks find searching difficult, often starting with either too wide a search, or one that is too narrow. For instance, if you search for "gauge" here you will be bombarded with possible results; and if you search for a specific single-word term, unless it is rare or unique will do likewise or show nothing at all.
For instance you CAN search for a single letter here as long as you associate a second word at the same time. So, to search for N or N gauge as has been said, will show nothing but an error, but if you include the word gauge and link both by encasing in quotation marks - "N gauge" - this search term will deliver results.
Okay, so that very common term will give loads of useless results here as has just been noted, but the use of quotation marks is a major tool for searches here, and allows you to search by entire phrases. I just did a search for "Structure gauging train" from the Entire Forum and it immediately bought up 14 results of that exact term, including the recent one by PaulCheffus in the new RTC coaches thread, as well as the 13 others since early 2012.
Searching is not difficult if you just follow a few simple techniques like this one.
Waheey! Excellent tips! Thank you, I used the " symbol either end of the full layout thread title and it came up straight away, magic! Well computer trickery is all magic to me but it helps if you know what buttons to press I guess! :dunce:
:thumbsup:
Glad you managed to find it Jimbo. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Jimbo on March 29, 2017, 12:09:56 PM
..... it helps if you know what buttons to press I guess!
Now ain't that the truth - about everything! :D
Quote from: daffy on March 29, 2017, 11:43:14 AM
In my experience many folks find searching difficult, often starting with either too wide a search, or one that is too narrow. For instance, if you search for "gauge" here you will be bombarded with possible results; and if you search for a specific single-word term, unless it is rare or unique will do likewise or show nothing at all.
For instance you CAN search for a single letter here as long as you associate a second word at the same time. So, to search for N or N gauge as has been said, will show nothing but an error, but if you include the word gauge and link both by encasing in quotation marks - "N gauge" - this search term will deliver results.
Okay, so that very common term will give loads of useless results here as has just been noted, but the use of quotation marks is a major tool for searches here, and allows you to search by entire phrases. I just did a search for "Structure gauging train" from the Entire Forum and it immediately bought up 14 results of that exact term, including the recent one by PaulCheffus in the new RTC coaches thread, as well as the 13 others since early 2012.
I'm no longer a newbie to this forum, but I didn't know about this, and neither, I suspect, does a very large proportion of members. Would it be possible for some kind person (do I hear you volunteering, Daffy...?) to write an idiots' guide called "How to use the search facility" and put it in the Welcome and Introduction section? That way, newbies can find it easily and the rest of us strugglers could refer to it when we need to. I do use search and generally find what I want eventually, but a bit more help would be useful.
Thanks!
Chris
My Daddy always said "Never volunteer for anything!" :D
Well, he didn't but it's a well used phrase I couldn't resist.
But no need to volunteer as all the info is ready to hand in the Forums Help pages
http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Search (http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Search)
Just remember, the little search box at top right on a Forum page is for only simple searches, but if you click on 'Search' on the title bar it will bring up the Advanced Search boxes.
The 'Modifiers' section of the help pages mentions the use of quotations, and also the use of the minus symbol to exclude terms, just as you can with Google for instance. Sadly you can't do a Boolean search which gives far more scope for detailed searches. For those interested in these neat little helpers, look here:
https://library.alliant.edu/screens/boolean.pdf (https://library.alliant.edu/screens/boolean.pdf)
But as I said, not available on this Forum.
Quote from: daffy on March 29, 2017, 01:23:03 PM
...if you click on 'Search' on the title bar it will bring up the Advanced Search boxes.
...
Actually, a few simple notes and examples on that page might circumvent a lot of frustration and "how do I" & "it's rubbish" posts.
Quote from: Yet_Another on March 29, 2017, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: daffy on March 29, 2017, 01:23:03 PM
...if you click on 'Search' on the title bar it will bring up the Advanced Search boxes.
...
Actually, a few simple notes and examples on that page might circumvent a lot of frustration and "how do I" & "it's rubbish" posts.
I agree, but I think that is an SMF (Simple Machines, the Forum platform originators) problem rather than one our happy band of pilgrims* can do anything about.
Perhaps we'll find out soon enough. :)
* = Tank and the Admin and Moderator volunteers.
Quote from: daffy on March 29, 2017, 01:23:03 PM
But no need to volunteer as all the info is ready to hand in the Forums Help pages
http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Search (http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Search)
I would take issue with your use of the phrase "ready to hand"!
I looked for this initially under the 'Forum Ideas and Problems' section and couldn't find it and it took me some minutes to track it down among the 'Help and FAQs', which, with hindsight, is what you meant and where I should have thought of looking first... And having read it, it's a bit on the technical side. When I said an idiots' guide, I really meant it! By all means, direct people to this information, but something much simpler is required IMO.
Cheers,
Chris
That's more a problem of too many sub forums though. You can make it sticky, but where? It legitimately fits in multiple places. As you found. You can't really make an idiot's guide to finding the idiot's guide. :hmmm:
Sorry Chris, but I don't think that I could phrase it any more easily and concisely than the Forum Help Section page already does, though if there is a consensus view that it could be improved I'd be happy to give it a go at some time.
As for finding the page, looking in Help & FAQ seems the most logical step to me. Even allowing for unfamiliarity with the Help Section, the time taken to navigate to the relevant details on searching should take less than 20 to 30 seconds. With familiarity it takes me less than 10 seconds (and at best I get less than 2.5Mbps internet access ). All in all therefore I would stick by my contention that it is 'ready to hand', and as I have already suggested, Tank and his team are probably constrained by the structure of SMF, the Help Section 'Search' page for instance opening in a new 'wiki' window outside the Forum.
But as I said, if the consensus wants a simpler 'idiots' guide, I could pen a 'frozen' thread, for instance, that could be prioritised by Admin to appear at the top of a Board, but which one? After all, folks still have to be able to know where to look.
PS - by 'frozen' I mean a thread that contains only the help info, closed to additional posts. It would have to be vetted by Tank before being listed. Otherwise the whole process would be pointless, the thread becoming the usual minefield of diverse opinion.