Hattons Buy-Back List

[NinOz]

Just browsing Hattons web site and within Your Account along with wish list, preorder list, etc I noticed an option for My Buy-Back Lists. 
Anyone know what this Buy-Back List is and purpose?

Regards,
CFJ

[JayM481]

You list items you want them to buy from you and when you submit it they'll send you an offer.

[longbow]

Out of interest what is the typical discount between what they pay for 2/H and what they sell it for?

[PLD]

I don't know about Hattons specifically, but as a very general rule, reckon on a fair second hand dealer giving you between 35 and 40% of what they'd expect to sell the item for. Some may possibly be a bit more generous if they have a buyer already lined up for a fast turnaround or if you are trading in the item as part payment on a purchase from them rather than taking cash...

[Izzy]

 As a very average rule of thumb if you reckon on about 25-30% of current retail price you won't get surprised by the generally low trade-in values. Which is why disposing through the likes of ebay/NGF forum etc is popular, although once you take of all the overheads/charges etc sometimes you might not be that much better off. All depends of course.

Izzy

[daffy]

I'm rather surprised by some of Hattons resale second hand pricing, as frequently on their website i have come across second hand listings at the same price as the brand new items. If they are buying in at low prices - and of course they will do that as markup margins will have to be maintained for sound business reasons - it suggests they are putting a higher markup on the second hand stuff.

I don't think they are alone in this. Rails of Sheffield had, and may still have, a group of second hand Fleischmann Re 460 Swiss locos listed as second hand, but the prices - £149 in most cases - are equal to the standard asking price of current new models. Now you might argue that they are rare collectors items, but I checked the eBay listing history of each, and most if not all had been originally listed nearly a year before, so evidently not much sought after.

Wanting an Re 460 myself I soon found one from elsewhere, a rare one, new in box, for the same price. And my new one has a long manufacturers guarantee, which is never offered, logically, on a second hand item.

Some sellers are just taking the Mickey, so caveat emptor.

[Rabbitaway]

Hi

I am certainly not condoning what I think is excessive second hand prices from Hattons, Rails of Sheffield and others. I understand that as a larger businesses they have to charge VAT at 20% and there is not recoverable VAT from the  individuals they buy from. So this cost needs to be allowed for before they add their margin for overheads and profit.

Not a tax expert so happy to be corrected if this is wrong

[Rabbitaway]

Hi

Just correcting myself. A seller can use the VAT margin scheme therefore they only pay VAT content on the profit part of the selling price. So less justification for these excessive second hand prices

Furthermore the VAT in this situation is less than the standard 20%

[longbow]

Perhaps you should tell Hattons that, as their 2/H prices include VAT at 20%. Presumably Rails' eBay store prices also include VAT on 2/H but I don't know at what rate or whether it's deducted for sales outside the EU.

[Rabbitaway]

Direct copy from the tax Man!

VAT margin schemes tax the difference between what you paid for an item and what you sold it for, rather than the full selling price. You pay VAT at 16.67% (one-sixth) on the difference.

You can choose to use a margin scheme when you sell:

second-hand goods
works of art
antiques
collectors' items
You can't use a margin scheme for:

any item you bought for which you were charged VAT
precious metals
investment gold
precious stones

[JasonBz]

In the realm of "Secondhand" you really cant accuse anyone of  over pricing stuff....
Its not like retail, the price? Its there to be discussed; an offer to treat if you like.

PLD's numbers are about right - I would have said a decent dealer would offer you about "60% of 60%" of the typical new selling price; same numbers just a different way of putting it.....

Thing is with second hand, you may ne'er sell it!

[daffy]

Good point Jason. It is important to note that prices as displayed by a retailer, second hand or brand new, are all legally classed as offers to treat:

Thus it is generally accepted in England that a display of price-marked goods in a shop-window, or on the shelves of a self - service shop, is merely an invitation to treat. The offer in such a case comes from the customer. An indication of the price at which petrol is to be sold at a filling station is, similarly, only an invitation to treat. Likewise, advertisements in newspapers or in tradesmen's circulars are commonly held not to amount to offers. These rules may apply even though the person making the statement calls it an offer: a shop's "special offer" may well be nothing more than an invitation to treat. 

lawteacher.net - greater detail is available here and at other websites.

It is up to us as buyers to decide whether any offer is worth our hard earned lucre. And if an offer for second hand goods is equal to or greater than a similar or identical new item, then I reserve the right to make the traditional gesture of rejection and stick my proverbial second finger in the air and shop elsewhere. Unless, of course, I choose to forego that right because I can't be bothered to shop around and/or I've got more money than sense. (Which I haven't BTW.)
It is, after all, a buyers market.

[JayM481]

Going by what Hattons listed some things I sold them, they will pay as high as 50% of what they plan to sell it for if they think it'll flip fast at the asking price, but otherwise around 40%. That was for store credit though. If you want cash, expect less. They will make the offer, but reserve the right to modify it once they get your models in hand, just in case your descriptions missed something. I've done this with them 3 times, and never had an offer reduced though. 

[longbow]

For those ordering from outside the EU - Hattons deduct 20% VAT from their pre-owned prices but Rails of Sheffield's eBay store does not.

[DELETED]

Having sold to Hattons before I think you have to look for 15-20% of second hand purchase value as a by-back.  Then you'll see your items priced at anything of up to 75-95% of rrp (new) prices afterwards

I use ebay for selling having tried a few options now.  It seems to yield the best results so far with least hassle and seems the best way to try, at least to trade at reasonable prices still.

Rich