Bachmann Farish 2017 Price Increases

Started by Bob G, January 11, 2017, 04:55:53 PM

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Snowwolflair

Quote from: Steven B on January 13, 2017, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: Thorpe Parva on January 13, 2017, 10:09:42 AM
Should this read $27.50 per day not per hour?

Yes, my mistake. I've edited my posting to correct the pay rate from per hour to per day. If it has been $22.50 per day I'd be tempted to move to China and start working in a model railway factory!

Happy modelling.

Steven B.

You mean hour  :D

Newportnobby

Quote from: Carmont on January 13, 2017, 10:46:17 AM
Quote from: newportnobby on January 13, 2017, 10:34:08 AM
Yeah - I think that's a typo by Steven.
Let's hope they don't switch production to North Vietnam as, rather than send stuff by boat, they're likely to send them by rocket :worried:

Assume you mean North Korea? Vietnam has been unified for a wee while now  ;)

:oopssign: :doh:

Izzy

I think all that could reasonably said about current prices is that those can afford them will, and those that can't, won't. How the rises will affect modelling into the longer term is only something that will become apparent as time goes by, as you might expect.

All I would add is that if they had existed at the level they now are when I returned to modelling in 2010 after a break then in all probability I wouldn't have done so, or it might have been done quite differently, with little or no reliance on RTR, which is how I mainly modelled in the past.

It will be interesting to see where the general direction ends up going, but my personal purchasing of RTR pretty much ended when the price rises first started and I doubt any more will be made. Thankfully I have enough stock for my needs, more than I really need probably. Perhaps this is where changes will occur. Less buying to excess, rather just for immediate needs.

Izzy

Drakken

@Izzy

I totally agree, If you can afford the price rises people will still buy, If you can't could can't simple. I must admit maybe a good thing in the future if prices do fall then maybe people will be more conservative with their money than spend on an impulse.

I do more and more tend to check the prices from different places and possibly wait till a Sale but maybe that's something we all should be doing anyways rather than just shelling out. I do enjoy more now the purchases I make personally it's not a case of there it is I'll have it but I tend to try and find the best deal even if it's just a couple of quid. More gratifying finding the item you want at a cheaper than usual price :beers: 

Rabbitaway


Hi All

Quote from: Elvinley on January 11, 2017, 05:10:35 PM
I am so glad I bought most of my stock when I did. Around the N gauge boom era of upgraded locos and coaches that were coming out thick and fast and before the current high prices kicked in. That was a great time to invest in N gauge. Nowadays I only buy the odd special offer and stock up at events like the Dapol Open day where a Schools needing a chimney glued back on set me back the price of a newly priced Pullman coach.

As Elvinley stated I am in the same place

I only buy new when very heavily discounted and even very little second hand now

Prices are just too high and I am not convinced that the reason stands up based on cost increases in China

As a self builder at home I am seeing no increase on China produced products such as cheap power tools and if anything these are being discounted more - just look at Screw Fix and Tool Station offers

I am well stocked up from the days of realistic prices 

:hmmm:

   

PLD

Quote from: Rabbitaway on January 13, 2017, 07:40:57 PM
the days of realistic prices 
The days of realistic prices for you budget, however the days of unrealistically low prices for the manufacturers and the assembly line workers...

For me it is unrealistic when I can do equal or better for the same price, either by myself or from other sources...

Roy L S

Not really fair to compare N Gauge products with things like cheap power tools which are manufactured in massive volumes and I dare day in a less labour intensive way. They don't need fiddly detail added or x passes through the tampo printer. You only have to look at Jason Shron's video on Rapido production in China (see RM Web) to get an idea of just what is involved in producing and assembling these models.

After the initial shock I accept the pricing isn't wrong now, the reality is it was unrealistically and unsustainably cheap before. We are now seeing it where it should be.

Clearly if sales volumes of Farish products continues to rise most are accepting the prices, and as I have often said before compare the price and quality of the very basic Farish A4 from 1999 (£89.99) with a highly detailed DCC Ready state of the art Duchess now 18 years later (£164.99) and ask which is the better value either in relative or real terms..

Roy

davidinyork

Quote from: Roy L S on January 13, 2017, 08:14:05 PM
Not really fair to compare N Gauge products with things like cheap power tools which are manufactured in massive volumes and I dare day in a less labour intensive way.

They are also generally not designed / made to last! If making a comparison with power tools, something like Makita or DeWalt is probably a better equivalent so far as there is one - i.e. made to high standards and expected to last a decent length of time.

Portpatrick

Quote from: Roy L S on January 13, 2017, 08:14:05 PM
compare the price and quality of the very basic Farish A4 from 1999 (£89.99) with a highly detailed DCC Ready state of the art Duchess now 18 years later (£164.99) and ask which is the better value either in relative or real terms..

Roy

To get a complete comparison I guess the original duchess would also have been c £90 in 1999?  I cannot find my RPI tables to prove or disprove the real change in prices.

On some other price comparison post around a year ago I compared my first Minitrix Britannia purchased in late 1976 with the current Dapol offering.  I looked at the then price c£13 I recall, with the Dapol price last year.  Compared to the movement in RPI the comparison was then close in real terms - maybe not so with recent increases.  There is no question that the Dapol model is a vastly superior offering in terms of detail, accuracy etc.  Whether it is so robust (one of my other Brits at c 30 years old is still in use as a Clan, and no bits have broken off with handling), and whether Dapol/Farish consistently run straight from the box after designated running in as my Minitrix did, is another set of questions which have also been aired to exhaustion.  My own Dapol Brit has been free of mechanical defect in the 5 years I have had it,  I am happy to report.  Like most current steam locos it must be handled with kid gloves.

Ian Bowden

Quote from: Snowwolflair on January 13, 2017, 12:07:01 AM
Quote from: JasonBz on January 13, 2017, 12:00:06 AM
These sort of threads seem to arise all the time, and all the time they never get anywhere.

I am sorry but the brutal truth is you can only spend what you have available, on what you wish to have....and stop just wishing for more shiny toys....Its gets to a point where I wish someone would just say stop it now children!
This is supposed to be a hobby based on making not buying things.

Verry true.......But have you seen the price of glue these days................... >:D

:D
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Activated-Liquid-Plastic-Bonding-Self-Adhesive/dp/B01GHWBJMC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484347871&sr=8-1&keywords=jml+glue or 9.99 from JML


EtchedPixels

Volume is indeed everything in plastic moulding and the UK volumes are tiny compared to say the US models. Hence the US ones are much cheaper, and often use a lot more metal.

I've only bought one loco this last year, and from Union Mills. I think I bought two things on special offer the year before. From what I hear I am far from alone. A lot of modellers are buying a lot lot less and that may itself be a problem.

OO can be cheaper than N - the Railroad range starts at £20 for little 0-4-0 locos and includes some really quite decent coaches at under £20 each.

My guess is we'll see more intelligent design of models perhaps with some trade offs people don't like in order to keep the prices in check. Bachmann appear to be using mechanical assembly for some stuff already looking at how it is built. Will they outsource - it might be harder than you think. The technology is also in China, the expertise is in China, and they are a Chinese company. In fact I could see other manufacturers moving far more easily both to new technologies as 3D print improves and new locations.

It's really hard to do models in the UK, the expertise is not generally available, the people who do all the other related jobs aren't here. There is a whole infrastructure around mould making, machine making, training, machine repair, parts and far more you have to move.

Even getting small plastic parts moulded in the UK is hard, there are not many folks left.

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

DELETED

I think I've voiced up often enough I don't agree with the way the hobby is going price-wise so no point in saying all thepoints again.  It is always a bit of a hidden pleasure to see more and more folk voicing up about costs though.

For me I've watched my income plummet and the cost of most other things go up.  Coupled to I now work in my home town so expenditure every day of the month rather than than working away on a rotation for 6 months of the year*.  My disposable cash more than halved with the salary drop, then halved again.

* A luxury I admit.


I don't agree with such large price hikes so quickly -full stop.  I also have to set a personal limit on a single item which I appreciate may be well below others.

It really annoys me though that I used to be able to progressively build-up a collection but now I see more and more very limited runs.  I can't really build-up a rake of much now, and not paying 80-120% of new prices for something second hand.

It must be hard for the main manufacturers to keep a balance.  I admire the crowdfunders doing what they do unfortunately though it's not for me.

I think it's all down to what you want from the product.  For me I'm not interested in ultra fancy DCC aimed locomotives when a) the reliability is no better (worse in some cases) -and servicing is more difficult and b) I can't see the extra detail at normal viewing distance anyway.  And maybe my own-set principles are too tight when say I do see something I'm trying to get but the price has shot-up anything up to 50% from the last one I bought not so long ago.  So I think in 2016 apart from a couple of peco wagon kits I only bought a 108 DMU (split from set) and a class 60 (buffers special), both listed probably 50% less than they should have been -that was my total of new purchases.  My second hand purchases were minimum because I wasn't paying 80%+ of RRP*.

*case in-hand Hattons are / recently listed the same class 60 special from buffers at £70 (used) when new ones are still for sale from Buffers at £50.

Rock and a hard place maybe, but we have to keep voicing up.  No good when I see comments in the magazines (relating to N gauge) -"we've never had it so good, and not paying enough already", we need more articles addressing the opposite feeling to redress the balance.

Rich

MKP

Some locos have jumped up over the past 3 years:

64xx 35% increase from 2013 price list to 2016

Class 3F (Jinty) 35% increase

castle just short of 8% increase

Princess coronation 10% increase

Merchant Navy 10% increase

but I think rolling stock is where it appears to show that Farish were under pricing these items:

MK1 coach 43% increase from 2013

30 Ton Bogie Bolster 67% increase

cattle wagon 70% increase

Bulk Grain Bogie Hopper  72% increase

7 Plank Wagon 75.5% increase

5 plank wagon 86% increase

Intermodal Bogie Wagons  103% increase

PCA Metalair Bulk Powder Wagon 123% increase

PLD

Bachmann did admit that previously many prices bore no relation to production costs (so some items were potentially being sold at a loss). The variation in the percentage increase is a good indication - the biggest increases are on items which are complex to assemble, or were ultra cheap previously...

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