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Author Topic: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'  (Read 11728 times)

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Offline Agrippa

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2014, 01:34:03 am »
I only have 1 controller at present, Gaugemaster Combi , and my UM T9 runs very smoothly
right down to a crawl.
Nothing is certain but death and taxes -Benjamin Franklin

Offline oreamnos

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2014, 06:32:50 am »
I have used a 30+ year old Model Rectifier Corp. controller and a more recent (<5 years old) Athern controller that had been split from a set by a shop in Utah that I got cheap.  All 14 of my UM models (and Farish, Peco and Dapol models, too) run great with both of them.  The Gaugemaster brand which seems so prevalent in the UK isn't sold in the US and I've seen no reason to try to source or import one given that the US brands work so well.

If I can find any fault with UM models, it's that they tend to have a sticky start.  That is, as you advance the throttle they won't initially move until they get past a point which is higher than a throttle settling they will run continually at once they have been got moving.  On other words, you have to give them more juice to get them moving than it takes to keep them moving.  All 14 of mine are like this.

Somewhere I've read that you shouldn't use a "feedback controller" with UM locos as it will burn out the motor.  In all candor, I have no idea what a feedback controller is and I've never heard the term used in reference to controllers here in the States.  I don't know if it is what in the US we call "pulse power" or if it refers to something else entirely.  I have run my UM locos on pulse power briefly with seemingly no detrimental effect, but I do make a point not to do so if I remember, just in case.

Matt
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 06:41:28 am by oreamnos »

Offline NeMo

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2014, 07:39:21 am »
In all candor, I have no idea what a feedback controller is and I've never heard the term used in reference to controllers here in the States.

I looked into feedback controllers at one point. The balance of opinion was that they worked around limitations in the older models, offering smoother starts and overall running. But with more modern models they might ("might" being the operative word) cause problems. Gaugemaster (who make them) have this to say:

"Feedback controllers create a closed loop between the controller and the locomotive which senses the load in the circuit and constantly adjusts the output.  This will maintain the locomotive at an even speed up and down gradients and around curves without altering the regulator of the controller.  Feedback controllers are not suitable for Portescap or other coreless motors or for poor quality mechanisms particularly in ‘N’ and other small gauges."

Defining what a "poor quality mechanism" might be is tricky, but in practical terms, Gaugemaster would probably say any mechanism their controller damaged was clearly poor quality, so they wouldn't be liable for any damage done!

Cheers, NeMo

Offline PLD

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 07:55:33 am »
I have some 16 Union Mills Loco's all under 2 years old, they really are superb runners and for me work best using a gaugemaster controller. If anyone would like a picture of one of Colins loco's just ontact me and If I have that one in my collection I will gladly photograph it for you.

Do the rest of the Union Mills owners agree with his statement about Gaugemaster controller? What controller do you think works best? Thanks!
Gaguemaster make such a range of different controllers and we don't know what type Terry has so it is not possible to give a blanket yes/no... Its like asking "is a Ford vehicle suitable for me?"



I looked into feedback controllers at one point. The balance of opinion was that they worked around limitations in the older models, offering smoother starts and overall running. But with more modern models they might ("might" being the operative word) cause problems. Gaugemaster (who make them) have this to say:

"Feedback controllers create a closed loop between the controller and the locomotive which senses the load in the circuit and constantly adjusts the output.  This will maintain the locomotive at an even speed up and down gradients and around curves without altering the regulator of the controller.  Feedback controllers are not suitable for Portescap or other coreless motors or for poor quality mechanisms particularly in ‘N’ and other small gauges."

Defining what a "poor quality mechanism" might be is tricky, but in practical terms, Gaugemaster would probably say any mechanism their controller damaged was clearly poor quality, so they wouldn't be liable for any damage done!

Cheers, NeMo
I would disagree with that advice... from my experience, the old Farish Poole mechanisms (which noone would ever deny were relatively crude) often improved with feedback, and a decent quality mechanism shouldn't need the asistance of electronic trickery to improve performance...  :hmmm:

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2014, 09:53:18 am »
If I recall correctly it is noted on the UM instruction leaflet not to use feedback controllers.

I have (I think!) 9 UM locos currently. My experience is that they run fine on normal Gaugemaster controllers and equally well using my Morley Vesta twin setup.

In all honesty for me one thing that can sometimes let them down is the limited pickup footprint causing stalling if track is not kept scrupulously clean, especially around Dead Frog points. Also, I would prefer to see the big loop of wire between loco and tender shorter and more discreet - but that is a pretty easy fix. DR Al has shown with his D20 what huge potential there is to super detail and enhance the already pretty decent basic model.

As an aside I offered up my only remaining UM J39 to the new Farish offering and they compare very well dimensionally. However as one might expect in every other respect the "state of the art" Farish model is in a different league entirely.

Don't get me wrong I am not criticising, UM locos do what they do very well indeed, they are well engineered robust, reliable and hugely powerful. They justifiably have a very loyal following (myself included) and prototypes chosen would rarely be covered by mainstream producers.

I wish he would do another run of BR J38s, I should have bought one when they were available!

I am very keenly looking forward to the D16/3!

Roy

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2014, 12:43:25 pm »
They run very well in my experience. They do move off at very very low voltages. The only problem I had was an old controller where minimum speed on the controller was just too high a voltage for a smooth start on the Union Mills loco.

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Octavian30

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2014, 07:55:42 am »
This my Union Mills Cauliflower at the head of a test freight on my T-Trak modular layout

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2014, 09:51:58 am »
If I can find any fault with UM models, it's that they tend to have a sticky start.  That is, as you advance the throttle they won't initially move until they get past a point which is higher than a throttle settling they will run continually at once they have been got moving.  On other words, you have to give them more juice to get them moving than it takes to keep them moving.  All 14 of mine are like this.

I've replaced the motors on most of my UM locos with 5 pole Mashima 1015s for precisely this reason.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline mr bachmann

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2014, 08:44:05 pm »
maybe next time we order a loco from UM we could suggest the placement of 5 pole motors , also i notice under the tender top of the Mark Twain there is a depresion that will take/hold a DZ125 , maybe this is a future mod ?


alan

Offline Bornin1980something

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Re: Union Mills 'Cauliflower'
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2016, 05:10:33 pm »
Back to the Cauliflower, is the tender a bit large? Also, I need an LMS liveried engine for the demonstration goods on my preservation layout. Could I get away with pretending one of these was preserved?

 

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