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Author Topic: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie  (Read 374 times)

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Offline Stu23

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Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« on: June 07, 2018, 09:05:00 am »
Hello all.I am having problems with Dapol B1/B17 front bogies.They keep derailing in forward motion,but not in reverse.This occurs on curves and straights totally at random.They are brand new,but purchased off evilbay(different sellers).Model numbers-nd079f and nd120d.Any help gratefully recieved.Thanks.Stu.

Offline Bealman

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 09:45:38 am »
G'day from Australia, Stu, and welcome to the NGF! :thumbsup:

Are your points immediately after a curve?

The lightweight of N bogies often mean they are angled wrongly when approaching points.

A short straight just before the point can help align the wheels.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 09:46:54 am by Bealman »
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 10:06:40 am »
Hi Stu, and welcome to the forum :wave:

Bealman is right in that some Dapol front bogies can be very light and derail at the slightest thing. You didn't mention points but if it's doing it on normal track the first thing I'd do is check all your track joins. Run a finger over them and ensure fishplates are seated properly. You'll soon feel any difference in height, something that can also occur if you mix, for example, code 55 and code 80.
Any bad joint could result in running OK in one direction but not the other.
Failing that, I'd put a small blob of blu-tac on the bogie and see if that improves anything. If it does, then you know you need to add a little weight by a better process than the aforesaid blob of blu-tac!

Offline PLD

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 06:00:30 pm »
If it is ONLY these two locos that derail and no others do, then contrary to the above, I would say the problem lies with locos not with the track so don't touch the track as it will risk causing issues with other locos...

I'd also advise against adding weight to the bogies. Is addressing the symptoms rather than the cause. Rarely a cure and again potentially leading to other problems elsewhere.

What is a recurring issue with these locos is the screws working loose. There are two of relevance (VERY small X-head usually) - one in the bogie itself and the other immediately behind the bogie in the chassis. Either being loose renders the bogie very floppy, the former can also catch on point crossings if very loose.

OVER tightening can also be an issue but rarer.

Offline Zwilnik

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 06:09:09 pm »
Another design issue with these locos is that the front bogie only has a small amount of rotational travel before it hits a detailing bump in the underside of the chassis, which pushes it down and lifts the front end of the loco off the track. Not just on 9" curves either. If the B to B of the wheels on the axle is a bit narrow the whole bogie can wiggle sideways enough to flip under the bump.

When I get to it on my loco fix list, I'm simply going to file the bumps off.

Offline Stu23

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 10:50:33 pm »
Thanks for all ideas.Will check them out.Stu.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2018, 12:06:09 am »
The first thing to check is not the loco but the track - it's more often the cause than anything else - I can't say that I've experienced any inherent design or operation problems with the front bogies on either of these loco types, on multiple different examples from multiple different production runs.

Therefore my money would be on a bump, kink, narrowing or suchlike of the track at the the location of derailment.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Stu23

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2018, 08:03:32 am »
Thanks for everyones input.I laid a simple oval of brand new track,lightly pinned,with no tight curves.Both these locos still derail randomely at ANY point on this new track,but,again not in reverse.This to me now points sqarely at the locos being at fault,but of course i am open to any suggestions.Many thanks.Stu.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2018, 09:42:52 am »
Sounds like that rules out a track issue so over to the loco experts @Dr Al

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 09:56:17 am »
Difficult to add much here without some pictures, or more clarity of exactly the symptoms.

Obvious things to check are that the bogie actually sits on the track and isn't lifted off when the loco is railed, that it's free to rotate and pivot, that the wheels are correctly gauged, and that nothing is catching on the underside of the loco body when the bogie swings out to take a curve.

Given that both locos have a different bogie tooling and different body tooling it still seems suspicious that the track may be at fault. Brand new track doesn't mean it wont have kinks or bumps (in fact they are worst on new track if that hasn't been gone over with a fine toothcomb) so it's worth checking with the feel of the finger - any kink, bump or sharp point should be eliminated as far as is practicably possible.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Stu23

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2018, 07:33:52 am »
Thanks for your input.I will go over the new track very carefully.
  I have very recently returned to model railways after a break of over 60yrs.
    Perhaps i chose the wrong "new" hobby?Patience i have,dexterity and good eye sight i have not.
      What i dont understand is its only these two locos.Onwards and upwards. 
     Regards.Stu.

Offline PLD

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Re: Dapol B1/B17 front bogie
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 07:52:17 am »
What i dont understand is its only these two locos.
As I said a week ago, if all your other locos run over the same track without problems, while these two locos also have issues on different track it points towards the issue being with these locos (despite the insistence of others that the track must be at fault).

 

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