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Author Topic: Switch Pilot Servo, again  (Read 443 times)

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Offline Yet_Another

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2018, 11:14:22 pm »
I'm aware of the original thread.

The point is:

Quote
When 16v AC is connected programming will not work. When all Switch Pilots are connected ECos blows a fuse (trips the short circuit protection).

But it specifically states in the manual that programming cannot be done while using an external supply.

So the question remains: did more than three switchpilots work ok (other than programming) when powered by the external 16V supply?
Tony

'...things are not done by those who sit down to count the cost of every thought and act.' - Sir Daniel Gooch of IKB

Online Bramshot

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2018, 01:04:32 am »
Doesn’t that restriction apply for programming using the ‘programming track’? 

You can also programme on main and I am not sure it applies then.

Offline mayjay

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2018, 09:40:25 am »
Hi gents.

I will try to explain what I have done regards this problem again as things may have become confused.

Firstly I find the ESU manuals confusing, German translation and far more reference to continental manufacturers and systems than my brain can cope with, over 70 & slowing down.

That said I have, over time, learnt the basics and have locos running with start up, max speed, slow down etc. functional, I am getting there.

The Switch Pilot Servo Decoders have all been programed on the program track with the DCC looped. I used the easy system, press program button, select addressed point and operate it twice (min) thereby triggering automatic addressing of the other three outputs. All worked ok and were tested for operation with servos before installing.

Three were installed and worked ok with looped DCC power. Removing the loops and attaching either 18v DC or 16v AC resulted in there being NO response when points selected. This resulted in my first question posted and a consensus that I should stick with DCC looped power.

 When I then added a fourth decoder (already programed) everything worked until I plugged in a servo. The whole system went haywire, ALL decoder LEDs flashed at least 6 times and the ECoS protection tripped. It was suggested that the system had been over loaded because ALL units were drawing power within seconds at power up, so I have tried to use aux power again to avoid this, same result, nothing works.

I have  swapped decoders to see if they function in a different location, tested servos on RC equipment, everything works just fine until a fourth Decoder is installed with a servo.
.
I have sent an email to 'Southwest Digital' outlining this and await a reply.

I hope that this explains things.

Mike


Mike

Online Bramshot

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2018, 10:16:18 am »
Thanks for the clarification. I don’t know much about using servos, though I have read the manual, which as you say is somewhat heavy going.
Are the servos continuously energised, even when at the end of travel?
Just looking for reasons why maybe too much current is being drawn from the controller.

Offline Yet_Another

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2018, 10:55:48 am »
Thanks for that clarification, Mike. Although it doesn't come out and actually say it, there's a strong implication in the manual that too many switchpilots powered through the DCC bus will break the system. Quite early on there's a comment that small layouts will be ok, but larger ones should use an auxiliary PSU.

So that brings it back to why external power isn't working for you. Hopefully, the manufacturer's agents will be of some help to you.
Tony

'...things are not done by those who sit down to count the cost of every thought and act.' - Sir Daniel Gooch of IKB

Offline mayjay

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2018, 12:15:03 pm »
Bramshot.

I have no idea about the servos taking power once operated, thick where electronics are concerned. They have been adjusted to just make blade contact and not "hum" but could well be drawing a small current at rest. They are SG 90 micros.

Yet_Another.

I had not seen the manual "implication" as due to the volume of potentially unwanted info I tend to skip to the info required. Thanks for reading it.

Mike
Mike

Offline mayjay

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 01:14:23 pm »
Hi all

Everything now working. Made some changes to the ECoS after advise from 'Southwest Digital'. Re-connected a few cables and "Bingo" it works. Don't ask me how or why.

Thanks for all of your help.

Mayay
Mike

Offline Nigel Cliffe

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2018, 01:26:48 pm »
Hi all

Everything now working. Made some changes to the ECoS after advise from 'Southwest Digital'. Re-connected a few cables and "Bingo" it works. Don't ask me how or why.

Thanks for all of your help.

Mayay

Firstly, glad its now working.

But, as a service to all those who have been helping, I think you owe it to us to explain what changes you made.   Otherwise nobody learns anything from this long thread. 



- Nigel

Offline Fardap

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 01:40:08 pm »
Hi all

Everything now working. Made some changes to the ECoS after advise from 'Southwest Digital'. Re-connected a few cables and "Bingo" it works. Don't ask me how or why.

Thanks for all of your help.

Mayay

Firstly, glad its now working.

But, as a service to all those who have been helping, I think you owe it to us to explain what changes you made.   Otherwise nobody learns anything from this long thread. 



- Nigel

Agree it would be good to know the reason, I have a theory and that is when the external power was supplied the track (dcc) was disconnected so there was no communication to the Switch Pilot - there are four terminals TRACK A B - PWR A B
I assume loop through means Track feed to Track A linked to PWR A  and Track feed (B) to Track B and linked to Pwr B.


If you then just remove track links and replace with ext power you have no data route? You need to remove the interlinks Track A&B to PWR A&B and feed ext pwr to PWR AB and ALSO a track feed to TRACK AB


my guess from the symptoms. There is an Amp meter display on the ESU (one of the menus in settings) that would also have shown if it was drawing too much current.



Offline mayjay

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 09:28:14 am »
I agree, sorry for not thinking, too buoyed up by success.

I was advised by SW Digital to UP the power on the ECoS from 14v to 17v and change the Amperage from 4amp to 6amp, not sure if this is the overload cut-out setting or something else.

I eventually found the ECoS built in power usage meter (Fig 115, Page 40 of the manual) and set these. The initial setting to the recommended 14v when I first had the ECoS was a bit of a guess because the adjustment is via what looks like a screw head on the ECoS  power pack and there are no markings to set it to, just a general instruction. Using the on screen meter with NO load on the track enables a more accurate setting.

I also set about checking ALL connections between the ECoS , the track & decoders, disconnecting and re-connecting most. DCC and external power were always connected as per the diagram on page 11, Fig4 of the Switch Pilot manual.

I have not come to any tangible conclusion as to the definitive answer to solving this, all I do know is that it now works ok. As stated before, electronics are beyond my understanding, especially computer systems, I know how things work on DC with on/off switches.

Just have to sort out the double slips, set a few routes & figure out the best (and cheap way) of detecting occupation on hidden storage yards.

Once again, Many Thanks for all of your input.


Mike

Offline mayjay

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2018, 12:44:42 pm »
Hi All.

It's back again!!!!! The answer seems to be, switch the Aux power on and off about 5/6 times and it will stop the infernal buzzing and LED flashing. Cant carry on like this and possible damage the units.

Have emailed ESU so will go RC boating until a reply is received. ???
 :confusedsign:
Mike

Offline mayjay

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2018, 09:45:43 am »
UPDATE!!!

Hi all. No reply from ESU so far but I have made a breakthrough. Purely by accident I switched on the ECoS first and then the Aux power and all works perfectly.

It was always the case that the aux was switched on first by virtue of the fact that the switch was first in line. Thinking about it the ECoS needs to be sending power and info to the decoder first in order to make it all function, without this the Aux power was not controlled, hence the random operation. I bet that hidden somewhere in the depths of the manual this  procedure is explained...or is it???

Regards to all and grateful thanks for all of your input

Mayjay (Mike)
Mike

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2018, 12:32:26 pm »
Interesting, though on the face of it I wouldn't have thought it makes any difference.  If the SwitchPilots were powered up first from the aux supply they're not going to see a DCC signal so shouldn't react at all.

Let's see if you no longer get any further problems?
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline mayjay

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2018, 02:42:47 pm »
ntpntpntp.

You may well be correct, all I know is that it works doing that so I will stick with it until it all goes "T*** up" again.

Thanks

Mike
Mike

Offline sprogman

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Re: Switch Pilot Servo, again
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2018, 03:43:32 pm »
Shades of ZTC? The DCC signal doing nasty things during power up and confusing the decoder?

ZTC used to recommend an isolation switch between their command station and the layout so that the layout could be connected once the command station had powered up and settled down.

 

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