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Author Topic: Modelmaster/NGS decals  (Read 7899 times)

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Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2018, 04:11:27 pm »
I recently purchased 6 kits from the NGS online and was impressed with the communication and prompt delivery of such. However remembering the price list that we used to get with the journal I was disappointed with the massively shrunk down stock list and I think the only kits they had in stock were the ones I wanted.

It's probably close to 4 years ago we ordered nameplates for BoB and MN and it was a hellishly long time to wait and since the NGS has dropped them I too have now switched to Fox, who have an easy to understand website and good communication and the quality is exceptional too.

Every price in every industry has risen and postage always does upset and annoy everyone BUT it is the unfortunate price we have to pay. It's still cheaper then us driving the return trip to collect them.

 As a consumer we all want more for our money but as a service provider (NGS in this case) their overheads climb  and money gets stretched, they loose members over decisions that are made which in turn costs to the remainers rise.

I'm sure the NGS are inundated with the same questions but they like us are a link in the chain. No one wants to wait. No one wants to pay more and No company wants to admit they've ignored or let anyone down. But we're all human. Enjoying our hobby and enjoying jumping on our soapbox when things drive us mad. Surely we will all get there in the end, won't we?

I wish Dapol hadn't announced Rebuilt MN BoB and WC a thousand moons ago. I'm still waiting for those on pre order from Hattons

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2018, 12:33:09 pm »
I'm sure the NGS are inundated with the same questions but they like us are a link in the chain. No one wants to wait. No one wants to pay more and No company wants to admit they've ignored or let anyone down. But we're all human. Enjoying our hobby and enjoying jumping on our soapbox when things drive us mad. Surely we will all get there in the end, won't we?

To be fair - the main issue here is not cost, but complete lack of service, making the process more awkward (Paypal!!) or complete lack of communication on orders placed in good faith. I'm happy to wait if something is going to be gotten in reasonable time, and there are reasonable updates if there are problems or delays.

Is waiting a year or more for a few pound nameplate really reasonable? IMHO, no, but each to their own. Personally I now think Modelmaster should not be advertising anything they don't have in stock. The contrast is emphasised by Fox as others have said, whose service is the polar opposite - quick, efficient and they'll let you know if there's a problem, and will sort out any mistake they make very rapidly.

It isn't the NGS to blame at all - but they do now need to step in and mitigate an increasingly untenable situation if possible.

Cheers,
Alan
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 12:35:34 pm by Dr Al »
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline emjaybee

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2018, 11:05:03 pm »
Blimey!

30 minutes to read and reply to an email!

...and I thought I had problems.

 :smackedface:
Sometimes you bite the dog...

...sometimes the dog bites you!

----------------------------------------------------------

I can explain it to you...

...but I can't understand it for you.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2018, 11:11:47 pm »
I don't get any of this - if everyone who emails, phones instead, then he'll be in exactly the same position. Smacks of being a bit out of touch with reality....

3700 emails in 3 months is around 41 a day - I get more than that at work, never mind personal.....

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline PLD

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2018, 11:38:21 pm »
I do get it... that statement confirms hearsay reports from elsewhere that the stock handed back from the NGS Shop was a complete and utter shambles and is taking a long long time to sort out.

Allegedly, in their infinite wisdom the NGS renumbered and resorted the stock but to make matters worse in some cases reused the same numbers for different items so that by their numbering, the same code applies to a different item to what it did in Modelmasters' original numbering scheme.

I would guess that quite a lot of the emails are duplicate/triplicate... as they didn't bother replying to the original email that customers sent.
It is a safe bet there are multiples in that total - we have contributors in this thread admitting to as much... One answered phone call can be easier than dealing with someone who e-mails maybe more than once per day.

For me, the only critical failing is to under-estimate the scale of disorganisation/maladministration of the NGS Shop and work required to recombine the inherited stock. We need to give what is a very small operation who have previously delivered a decent timely service some slack to get the stock organised and work through the backlog...

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2018, 12:11:21 am »
Allegedly, in their infinite wisdom the NGS renumbered and resorted the stock but to make matters worse in some cases reused the same numbers for different items so that by their numbering, the same code applies to a different item to what it did in Modelmasters' original numbering scheme.

This is fair enough.

But Modelmaster have been advertising and offering for sale nameplates at very least (not sure about the decals as I've never used them), for 6-9 months or more. They've only pulled everything now - presumably because of this thread and the complaints to NGS. If the stock is in that shambles that takes a few months to sort out, then fair enough, but it should therefore never have been advertised until in a state that orders could be fulfilled.

We need to give what is a very small operation who have previously delivered a decent timely service some slack to get the stock organised and work through the backlog...

Perfectly happy to - but it's too late really as the ship has sailed now - many people are sitting having made orders that have not been fulfilled, and many appear to have lost trust.

Moreover, the email, phone, and Paypal situation strikes of being out of touch with the digital age we now live in - I can understand that Paypal costs. But so do credit cards, which is presumably what most folk will then use....

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline trkilliman

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2018, 09:32:34 am »
Going by recent posts if they are correct the NGS decals were in a right shambles.
I assume they were in such a muddle that they couldn't have been sold off to members cheaply in a lucky dip scenario, clearing the decks for a restocking / start again process? (just a passing thought, but unaware of the possible logistics involved)

Did we have a situation where the committee decided either we cannot sort this jigsaw puzzle, we haven't got volunteers to attempt sorting it, or maybe a combination of both?  So the NGS decals, which I have viewed as a highpoint of membership, were passed onto/back to Modelmaster.

In all fairness to Modelmaster it is beginning to sound as though they were landed with more than they had bargained for /  have bitten off more they can chew. That said, how long does it take to conclude that it's in a mess, and needs sorting before sales can commence without problems?

Whatever happened it's of course water under the bridge.

I fully appreciate that after the departure of the longtime Jaywick "shopkeepers" a whole can of worms opened up. The shop contents have been cleared, which for most of us isn't too problematic. The decals however are not the sort of thing you can buy from a box shifter, or your local MRS. This is where the NGS had a very strong advantage, and membership puller...IMO of course. We must surely all be aware of Fox,CCT, Precision etc, but NGS membership enabled the purchase of Modelmaster decals at a good price. This really showed it's worth when ordering several packs.

It's been posted above that Modelmaster have withdrawn the NGS decals/nameplates from sale. Many members appear to have become rancled how things have played out, whilst others have had few problems. Hopefully the issues can be sorted in a reasonable time scale, and members will again be able to place orders for decals and have them within days, at a realistic postage cost. If this fails to materialise my guess is NGS renewals may suffer.

Offline msr

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2018, 08:40:34 am »
More worryingly, that same press release goes on to state "I'm not printing any more decals or transfers, so when items sell out, they're gone forever, but I'll still complete very limited production of 7mm Scale Waterslide Decals already in the pipeline."  I saw this here:
https://groups.io/g/ngs/topic/modelmaster_plates_and/7707930?p=Created,,,20,1,20,0&jump=1

Since the 2mm/NGS part of the site was taken down last month, this does not bode well for anyone trying to establish what to order and from whom.

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2018, 09:23:44 am »
Were, as we will now be talking in past sense modelmasters decals and nameplates ones that aren't produced by Fox?

Simply because if they aren't then there's no point continuing with this post as their service, communication and quality is fantastic and would be very hard to beat.

However IF they are different and in a state that can be sorted and reproduced without much hassle it seems to me as a viable business.
We know the NGS aren't interested in it so how about Ben and Mike at revolutioN take them on to run alongside their business or Tank is there any possibility of a consortium purchase that allows the N gauge forum to be the proud producer and supplier of these plates and decals??

Just seems to be a hell of alot of modellers desperate to purchase these and only 1 company willing to run away from it all for reasons of being 'left in a mess'

Shoot me down in flames or praise which ever is worthy

Craig

Offline trkilliman

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2018, 10:58:13 am »
Along with some others I have had a few posts on here about Modelmaster.

I do not feel it was explained well enough why the society decals, which in my mind kind of belonged to the membership, made their way back to Modelmaster.

Now, for whatever reason/s the owners and printers of the decals have decided to retire...nothing wrong with that of course it's everyone's right to do so as and when they wish, and if able to do so.

I wonder if the NGS decals they took over were just a bit too much to handle on top of their core business, especially if they were rather mixed up as the society kit parts were?

It would seem it's gone from a far from idea situation to the worse case scenario.

A few years back the society purchased the Parkwood range of kits, which IMO was a good move. I will  be interesting to see if a similar purchase can be made of the Modelmaster N gauge decals and plates.

I didn't envisage the owners of Modelmaster would retire so soon after taking the NGS decals back to distribute, and I'm sure nobody on our committee thought so either.

As I have said many times I consider the NGS kits and decals to be pivotal to the membership numbers.

I have had a chap custom produce some haulage decals for me and they are top notch. Sadly as part of an agreement with the person who sold him the equipment he is not allowed to produce railway decals, as they continue to do so, albeit in 4mm.

Exmouthcraig, no shooting down in flames is called for, virtually all of us have a need for decals. Society decals were always a good buy that I'm sure was an attraction of membership.

Online Buzzard

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2018, 11:14:32 am »
Since the 2mm/NGS part of the site was taken down last month, this does not bode well for anyone trying to establish what to order and from whom.

I don't know about anyone else but if company A cannot, for whatever reason, supply what I'm after I look at company B, then C etc.  I'm sorry to say that Modelmaster have been off my radar for some time.

If no-one produces the TOPS panels I'm after then I cut 'n' shunt with the nearest available panel.  For example I need panels for a VEV so I'll take ones coded VEA lose the A and add the V.  No point waiting for a supplier to produce VEV panels when I've got the wherewithal in my box of transfer sheets.

As long as the NGS can produce transfers for its kits I'll be happy.

Offline Ben A

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2018, 11:36:28 am »
We know the NGS aren't interested in it so how about Ben and Mike at revolutioN take them on to run alongside their business or Tank is there any possibility of a consortium purchase that allows the N gauge forum to be the proud producer and supplier of these plates and decals??

Hi all,

For avoidance of any doubt Revolution's focus is on enabling modellers to come together to crowdfund RTR models that otherwise would be unlikely to see production, at least in the foreseeable future, by the mainstream manufacturers.

We have no capacity for, or interest in, bits and kits beyond *possibly*  supplying components that are a by-product of our RTR models such as pantographs.

I have designed decal artwork for the NGS kits I've been involved with and it is very time-consuming, especially if you are not familiar with the prototype.  If anyone else is considering taking this on good luck to them!

Cheers

Ben A.



Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #87 on: February 11, 2018, 11:49:15 am »
Is the time constraints the reason the NGS handed all works back to Modelmasters Ben?

This is an industry other then being an end user of I know nothing about, all we read on here is upset / annoyance / frustration  that the NGS handed these over even though they were huge benefits of membership.

We all want different things for our hobby and our interpretation of the real thing but are costs and time the reasons these have been and are being dumped and it's time to accept we will no longer get what we once had access too??

Craig

Offline Ben A

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2018, 12:01:23 pm »

Hi Craig,

I think the view was that the sorting and dispatch of decals was something that was best done by a specialist, and so the decals were sent back to Modelmaster on the understanding that they would do this.

I could be wrong, but I have a recollection that the only reason the NGS originally took on the decals was that Modelmaster were threatening to pull out of N altogether.

I don't really know the details of the arrangements for their repatriation.

I was just clarifying the position re Mike and I potentially offering decals.

Cheers

Ben A.



Offline trkilliman

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Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2018, 01:02:17 pm »
Ben Ando said...I don't really know the details of the arrangements for their repatriation.

Really Ben, as Vice President of the NGS.
Has somebody kept you in the dark regarding information of such magnitude?

I am not alone in feeling that there's increasingly a "if you need to know" air about the society, seemingly since the bombshell hit after a stocktaking of the former society shop .

I have been patient during the last couple/few years that the NGS has faced turmoil, as I'm sure many others have. If the exclusive decals disappear along with Modelmaster, it will be another nail in the coffin in my book.

 

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