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Author Topic: GNR Q2 and half wave.  (Read 1480 times)

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Offline Byegad

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GNR Q2 and half wave.
« on: December 30, 2015, 01:49:55 pm »
Greatly impressed by the J38 I bought used from eBay, I have ordered a D20, a J25 and a Q2.

The D20 and Q2 arrived this morning and on opening the Q2 up I came across an information sheet on the loco.

Dire warnings of brush failure are predicted if using a chopper controller, stating it uses a coreless motor. I'm well out of my comfort zone on this, so forgive my questions.

1. As 2/3rds of my layout is controlled by a Gaugemaster Model DS controller a couple of decades old, do I need to assign the Q2 to depot queen duty? Or at least limited to the other 1/3rd?

2. Are the other UM locos similarly powered and also not to be used on the 'chopped feed' parts of my layout? In my ignorance the J38 has trundled around for a day or so with no immediate issue.

3. Finally as I run Kato, Arnold, Fleischmann. Grafar, and Dapol locomotives are ony of these likely to suffer from the controller? I have to say I've had a couple of traditionally powered Arnold locos and a Fleischmann fail over the years, so maybe they failed due to my choice of controller.
 

Any thoughts or comments will be most welcome.

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: GNR Q2 and half wave.
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2015, 09:38:03 pm »
What you need to find out is what sort of output the DS produces. It's quite possible for an inertial simulating controller to output smooth DC or very finely chopped DC, but most don't. I suspect you are fine because Gaugemaster specifically claim to be compatible with all motors. See the instruction sheet "This unit is suitable for use with all types of dc motors including Portescap." (Portescap being the archtypical small motor of old).

Many Dapol models also specifically warn against using feedback controllers but those are things like the HH and DF.

Alan

"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Dr Al

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Re: GNR Q2 and half wave.
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2015, 10:03:42 pm »
I use UM locos on a Gaugemaster WS no problems (tho I rarely use the 'S' simulation feature). I think it's worth double checking, but I've certainly had no trouble on this controller, or other standard Gaugemaster controllers. I think the ones to avoid are those with definite feedback (those ending in a 'F' with a black painted facia, e.g. the DF, and the UDF).

I think the simulator is a different thing and simply changes the voltage to the track in a controlled way to imitate braking etc, without actively feeding back using the motor.

HTH,
Alan

Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Byegad

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Re: GNR Q2 and half wave.
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2015, 04:36:34 pm »
Many thanks for the quick replies.

I've had the DS for some time, well over a decade, so I've emailed Gaugemaster with the question. Mantime I'm only using the locos on the rheostat controlled 3rd of the layout, although I suspect if I avoid Simulation all would be well. Gaugemaster will no doubt reply once the holidays are over, I've previously found them excellent in the area of customer after-care.

Another UM loco arrived today, a B12, and on that sheet it mentions avoid using a Relco track cleaner too! As all my controllers have had one wired in I'm now wondering if Union Mills are being ultra cautious. Without the Relcos track needs cleaning more often. 

Offline Dr Al

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Re: GNR Q2 and half wave.
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2015, 05:10:35 pm »
Personally having used Relcos in OO, I'd not use them again - they don't get rid of dirt, only overcome it, and worse they seemed to do a lot of micro-pitting to the wheels (as they only work via arcing IIRC). The track always ended up as filthy or filthier, though the trains did cope with it better.

The wheel damage put me off them forever though - nothing is better than proper elbowgrease style cleaning in my humble experience.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline mr bachmann

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Re: GNR Q2 and half wave.
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2016, 03:04:24 pm »
May be UM has started to fit a 'newer' motor ?

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: GNR Q2 and half wave.
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2016, 04:14:38 pm »
Another UM loco arrived today, a B12, and on that sheet it mentions avoid using a Relco track cleaner too! As all my controllers have had one wired in I'm now wondering if Union Mills are being ultra cautious. Without the Relcos track needs cleaning more often.


Modern motors are lot smaller and less tolerant of abuse so I am not surprised.

Many also use semiconductor components. Relcos are not a good idea with anything remotely modern IMHO because any high voltage spikes however short gradually destroy semiconductors. I still use one in Z, as my Z stuff is old but not in N.

Dapol btw had this to say some time back

" Faults caused by this form of 'cleaner' that have been recognised by Dapol include Wheel 'pitting', fall off in motor performance and the blowing of circuit boards and led light circuits. So for the last 6 years we have made it known, (but only recently in the instructions that will now be a standard comment on all locomotives) that electronic 'cleaners' can possibly cause damage to your locomotives and as such Dapol do not recommend them for use with our locomotives."

http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=module/productquestion/questions&page=18
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Byegad

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Re: GNR Q2 and half wave.
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2016, 12:33:52 pm »
Well I got a clear answer from Gaugemaster re the DS controller. They say the controller is neither pulsed nor back EMF so is safe with the UM motor. Now all I'll have to do is disconnect my Relcos and everything will be fine.

 

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