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Author Topic: Next Union Mills Model will be...  (Read 43162 times)

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Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2016, 12:49:32 pm »
It reminds me of my fathers advice about women, "there are those you have fun with and there are those you marry and they are not the same" :D

We all marry GWR :)

Offline Jollybob

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #76 on: July 09, 2016, 01:43:44 pm »
A GWR 4-4-0 would be great. There are plenty of large GWR locomotives and a good selection of smaller ones, ideal for branchlines but there are very few intermediate tender locomotives for the GWR.
What we need is more pregrouping locomotives like GWR 4-4-0s, LBSCR 2-6-0s, NB 4-4-2s, HR 4-4-0, MSWJR 2-4-0, etc.... The list could go on forever.
I wouldn't mind seeing a few industrial locomotives as well.

Blob. 🙂
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 06:57:57 pm by Jollybob »

Offline Byegad

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2016, 02:47:52 pm »
+1 for Industrial locos. I'd love an LNER 4-4-2 Atlantic, any of the nine possible classes would be ideal.
I live in hope. But not expectation.

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2016, 04:13:13 pm »
Thing to remember with UM is they  don't do outside cylinders let alone valve gear, and tenders are 6 wheel with outside springs and axle boxes, so no Drummond watercarts.

I also can't think of any UM models of prototypes that never made it into BR days, that would limit the potential market. There are still quite a number of inside cylinder 4-4-0s and 0-6-0s still to be done, my thoughts are obviously mainly on locos from south of the Thames, ex SECR and LBSC classes not been touched yet and some of the ex LSWR that ran with 6 wheel tenders quite a few from ex Scottish companies too. I'd love an Adams A12 0-4-2 Jubilee, total of 90 made  from 1880/90s & some lasted to 1948.
Cheers MIKE
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Offline trkilliman

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2016, 06:41:32 pm »
U.M. make models that are not considered/made by the the big two, they therefore cater for a specific market. I think the GWR/W.R. is modelled more than other regions. If I am correct it therefore follows that GWR/W.R. locos will have a greater market. If his recent GWR introduction has sold really well this may influence future models. We hear they are reliable,and reliability is something that seems to get discussed on here with regularity. Maybe there is a happy medium whereby U.M. locos could incorporate a bit more detail, whilst retaining their reliability. As I said previously I have never owned a U.M. model but I'm certainly warming to the idea

Offline port perran

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #80 on: July 09, 2016, 07:02:42 pm »
U.M. make models that are not considered/made by the the big two, they therefore cater for a specific market. I think the GWR/W.R. is modelled more than other regions. If I am correct it therefore follows that GWR/W.R. locos will have a greater market. If his recent GWR introduction has sold really well this may influence future models. We hear they are reliable,and reliability is something that seems to get discussed on here with regularity. Maybe there is a happy medium whereby U.M. locos could incorporate a bit more detail, whilst retaining their reliability. As I said previously I have never owned a U.M. model but I'm certainly warming to the idea
I've got three and am very pleased with them all.
One thing I'd say is that I can handle them with confidence without fear of breaking them . That's a big plus for a ham fisted oaf like me!
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2016, 07:43:05 pm »
If you look at the range of steam locos available from Dapol and Farish, there are 3 0-6-0s and 1 4-4-0 tender locos, everything else is 4-6-0 or larger or tank locos, Farish stopped making the 4P which was at that time the only 4-4-0 from the "big 2"; UM currently have 12 0-6-0 tender locos in stock, four 4-4-0s, an 0-8-0 and 2 4-6-0s, most available in BR or grouping liveries.

Prior to nationalisation the great majority of steam tender locos in UK were 0-6-0s or 4-4-0s, many of them continued in service for some years after nationalisation; one could not accurately depict most branch lines and local services without using  UM tender locos and tank locos from Farish and Dapol.

At Grouping in 1923, the SR inherited 2,281 locos from pregrouping companies, of these only 73 were 4-6-0s, but 606 4-4-0s and 340 0-6-0s and a total of 1042 tanks, mostly 0-4-4-T and 0-6-0T, by the start of WW2 still under 200 4-6-0s and  over 200 4-4-0s and over 250 0-6-0s; during those years there was extensive electrification so not so many new steam locos compared to other grouping companies.

Farish and Dapol follow the what we might call tradition of model railway manufacturers in only producing the "prestige" locos, or cheapish tank locos, very little in between, it's left to kit makers mainly to fill the gaps, but not everyone is into kit building we have UM to thank in N gauge for the work horses that are beneath the dignity of Farish and Dapol.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:17:32 am by Caz, Reason: Removed white space at end of post »
Cheers MIKE
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Offline PLD

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2016, 11:53:00 pm »
IIRC, the largest pre-grouping company without a single representative loco ready to run from any manufacturer of the Lancashire and Yorkshire. With several classes of fairly simple 0-6-0, 0-8-0 and 4-6-0 tender locos (mostly lasting in to the 1950s) you would think they would be ideal subjects for UM.

In terms of steam loco types the biggest gap left is for medium size tanks. We have numerous smaller/shunting 0-6-0T and several choices of large 2-6-2T & 2-6-4Ts but not one 0-6-2T or 4-4-2T or 2-4-2T

Offline Byegad

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #83 on: July 10, 2016, 10:21:25 am »
While I had noticed UMs love of inside cylinder locos, I rather hope they get a little more ambitious and try an outside cylinder loco or two! As to tenders there are surely some Atlantics with a suitable tender for the drive.

I love UMs range of locos and have several (London) North Eastern specific models from them already. I totally agree they are filling a void left open by GF and Dapol, thank goodness!

Offline Tonye

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #84 on: July 10, 2016, 10:41:27 am »
 :hellosign: Colin Heard has said that he wouldn`t produce out sided cylinder loco`s due to cost, It`s a shame but he is only a very tiny manufacturer.  :D 
Tonye

Offline trkilliman

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2016, 11:19:43 am »
:hellosign: Colin Heard has said that he wouldn`t produce out sided cylinder loco`s due to cost, It`s a shame but he is only a very tiny manufacturer.  :D

Yes I understand he is a small manufacturer. He may wish to stay exactly that, with his locos having a reputation for reliability, something we all wish for.  Producing locos with outside cylinders could well result in a ? loss of reliability, with more to go wrong. Only he will know which direction he wants to head in. It would be nice though if he decides to venture further, with perhaps a slight expansion of his business and products.

Offline Thorpe Parva

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2016, 11:23:28 am »
:hellosign: Colin Heard has said that he wouldn`t produce out sided cylinder loco`s due to cost, It`s a shame but he is only a very tiny manufacturer.  :D

I recently purchased a UM LMS 2P 4-4-0. I did wonder if Colin could use this as the basis for developing an LMS Compound which is a very similar loco and which has a simple outside cylinder.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2016, 11:28:27 am »
Yes I understand he is a small manufacturer. He may wish to stay exactly that, with his locos having a reputation for reliability, something we all wish for.  Producing locos with outside cylinders could well result in a ? loss of reliability, with more to go wrong. Only he will know which direction he wants to head in. It would be nice though if he decides to venture further, with perhaps a slight expansion of his business and products.

I think this is a fantastic question. Suppose he chose something like a GWR 'Saint' class with the relatively straightforward Stephenson valve gear. That would be a lot more "bits" to manufacturer and get working, even though it's a lot simpler than the very fiddly Walschaerts valve gear on things like BR standards.

I reckon that Colin would find it extremely difficult to keep costs down while maintaining his very high reputation for reliability.

Personally, I'd much rather Union Mills focused on older locomotive designs, and perhaps looked into smaller but still reliable motors that can fit into tenders, so that they could ultimately produce things like Midland 'Spinners' and other turn-of-the-century designs that the "big two" manufacturers wouldn't touch with a barge-pole.

Cheers, NeMo

Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2016, 11:29:43 am »
The Farish Class 08 showed the way on outside frames and push fit cranks, so a City or a Dukedog is relatively easy.

Frankly either would fly off the shelves.

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2016, 12:26:01 pm »
Interesting comments here.

Firstly re: outside cylinders, in my conversations with Colin H he has certainly never discounted it out of hand and from a technical point of view it is do-able. The same may be true of an outside framed prototype although frankly I would be surprised if he did anything of either kind. My gut feeling is a 2251 with a more prototypically common tender.

As regards size, Colin has always been clear that he is happy doing things the way he does with production at the kind of level it is, so I think one technically simple loco a year is what we will continue to see until Colin decides to stop.

And yes, I agree we are very fortunate that he fills the voids in production that others leave. In spite of the lack of fine detail alongside others' models and mechanical simplicity they can be super detailed and DCC'd to produce some very passable models.

In some respects we are better off than our 00 friends thanks to Colin H - they don't have a J38. D20, Cauliflower, Prince of Wales or Fowler 7F RTR and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head - in N we do!

Roy

 

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