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Your Layout and Models => Layout Construction => Topic started by: Atso on May 01, 2018, 06:46:02 pm

Title: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 01, 2018, 06:46:02 pm
Hi all,

I thought I'd start a new thread covering my attempt to build a layout of Hadley Wood station. Firstly, please don't expect lightening progress on this (the boards haven't been built yet!) but I've wanted to start this thread for some time.

I've built and abandoned several layouts over the last few years as none seemed to satisfy me. It was a visit to (and operating) Tony Wright's 4mm scale 'Little Bytham' layout with RoyLS and a couple of friends that finally convinced me that the problem was that I was trying to pack too much into my designs, that they were becoming unrealistic and that modelling an actual prototype would be more fulfilling for me.

I looked at several prototypes for the basis of this layout but all my initial preferences exceeded the available room of 12' by quite a way - Hitchin would have been my first choice but I'd have needed 20' to do it justice! Feeling a little down that I might not be able to model a prototypical location after all, I remembered Hadley Wood.

For those who don't know the station, it is a compact station on the ECML flanked at either end by tunnels (approximate 416m apart or 9'3 in N gauge!) with New Barnet to the south and Potters Bar to the north. The tunnels proved to be a bit of a headache to both the GNR and LNER as it force the line to narrow from a quadruple to double stretch of mainline - this was a major bottleneck on the system that wasn't quadrupled until the late 1950s. As I'm modelling the 1930's it'll be an intensively worked bit of line.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-010518183840.bmp)
(Extract from 1935 OS map)

Up until the quadrupling work, a small goods yard of two sidings and a head shunt was provided. Originally, the sidings were put in place (1885) to allow the delivery of building materials for local housing - part of an agreement reached between the GNR and a local property developer to build the station in the first place (the developer had to pay a rent/fee to the GNR until a certain number of properties had been build and inhabited). Following the completion of the housing, the sidings were turned over for coal and general goods (hay being something Hadley Wood apparently had in abundance).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-010518184145.jpeg)
(Unknown photographer/credit)

The station also had an historic railway figure attached to it for a time. None other than Herbert Nigel Gresley lived in Hadley Wood (until the late 1920's) and used the station to commute in and out of Kings Cross (and wherever else he was needed)! A plaque was installed at the station a few years ago to commemorate this.

Unfortunately, the quadrupling work and later electrification forced the removal of most of the old station and today only the staircases to the platforms survive. However, the drawings for the station building are held at Kew Gardens and several photographs of it have started surfacing.

Anyway, enough of my waffling. Although I've not yet built the baseboards, I have built the most complex bit of track needed for the scenic section and will leave you with that for now!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-010518183445.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: andy-sf on May 01, 2018, 06:56:08 pm
This looks like it will be a really interesting project! I'm looking forward to seeing this develop. Nice trackwork too :)

- Andy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 01, 2018, 08:17:32 pm
That looks to be an ideal location to model, Steve.  You'll get all the fun of the former GNR main line with a moderately-sized station. Often the 'less is more' adage seems particularly applicable to model railways.

Many thanks for including the OS map, showing that the track layout is pretty much the same as I ended up with on my layout (apart from it having a bay platform on the opposite side to the yard) which is nice to know.

Best wishes for your project and I'll be watching progress with keen interest.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 01, 2018, 08:39:55 pm
I would say the name 'Hadley Wood' resonates with many a gricer, especially those of an LNER bent.
Don't take too long, though, Steve. :uneasy: :worried:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 02, 2018, 01:55:59 am
Looks like it's going to be a great project!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 02, 2018, 10:57:43 am
Thank you for your kind words of support and encouragement. I'll try not to disappoint!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 02, 2018, 11:17:51 am
To give a flavour of the kind of locomotives that will be running through Hadley Wood, below is a table outlining the classes found at Kings Cross one day in 1935.

A1 (Gresley's version before rebuilding into A3s): 6
A3: 2
A4: 1
C1: 10
D2: 1
J3: 4
J6: 7
J52: 25
J57: 1
J69: 1
K2: 4
K3: 18
N1: 22
N2: 22
N7: 18
O2: 2

Total of 143 locomotives.

Most of these were GNR or LNER built locomotives but it is interesting to see GER classes J69 and N7 shedded at 'Top Shed' as well. In addition, GCR classes such as the Sam Fays (B2), Lord Farringtons (B3), Directors (D11) and Jersey Lilies (C4) could be found hauling trains out of Kings Cross and passing through Hadley Wood at various points of the LNER's existence. Also, the Claud Hamiltons (D15-D16) could also be found working trains, usually the Cambridge beers trains. Ravens A2s made appearances although they were rare by the mid 1930s (and withdrawn shortly after).

As can been seen, there was a lot of variety in the motive power that would have travelled through Hadley Wood. Unfortunately out of the main list, only the A3s and A4s are catered for by rtr items. The B17s and J39s may have made an occasional appearance but they would have been rare indeed. The Peppercorn A1s and A2s along with the Thompson B1s hadn't even been thought of during the period I'm modelling.

Rolling stock isn't much better as over half the passenger stock during the period with have been of pre-grouping (predominately GNR) designs. The Minitrix and Dapol Gresley's are very helpful but only a small part of what would have been seen on a daily basis.

Anyway, a couple more pictures. The first is Hadley Wood today (Google maps) with the 1935 map superimposed over it. A lot has changed over the last 80 years or so...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-020518111356.jpeg)

The second is a 1950's photograph I purchased from eBay. By this time the goods sidings had been lifted ready for the work to start on quadrupling the line but the signal box still remained.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-020518111558.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 02, 2018, 04:18:12 pm
What an interesting list, Steve.

I wonder how many hours this 'day' included.  If it was from enthusiast sightings it might not have been 24 and some of the goods classes might be under-represented because of night-time workings.  Also interesting is whether these figures included multiple sightings of the same locomotive.  I understand that one 'A4' usually worked the Up and Down Silver Jubilee.  The 'A4' sighting is helpful as it points to the day being Oct - Dec that year, unless it was the first train on 30 September or the press demonstration train on 27 September.  Or, of course. a test working or similar.

Fascinating stuff, thank you.

And thank you for the photographs.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 02, 2018, 05:24:46 pm
What an interesting list, Steve.

I wonder how many hours this 'day' included.  If it was from enthusiast sightings it might not have been 24 and some of the goods classes might be under-represented because of night-time workings.  Also interesting is whether these figures included multiple sightings of the same locomotive.  I understand that one 'A4' usually worked the Up and Down Silver Jubilee.  The 'A4' sighting is helpful as it points to the day being Oct - Dec that year, unless it was the first train on 30 September or the press demonstration train on 27 September.  Or, of course. a test working or similar.

Fascinating stuff, thank you.

And thank you for the photographs.

John

Hi John,

Sorry, the list is a tally of locomotives found shedded at Kings Cross that day - I should have phrased that better (slaps wrist!). Your comments have thrown up an anomaly  which I should have seen but never have (I've had this list for twenty years plus)! The list is dated 5th March 1935, so how could an A4 (Quicksilver) be found at Top Shed?! I think it is more likely that this tally was taken in 1936 when the four original A4s were in service but the next batch was still 9 months away. However, you are quite right to point out that this doesn't account for if this was taken at a specific point in the day or indicative of the locomotives assigned to the shed.

Regarding the humble 0-6-0T locomotives, I would've have thought that very few of them would have been seen at Hadley Wood as they would have been mainly used as shunting locomotives at Kings Cross goods as well as the transfer trips via the widened lines. However, I know the J52s did do some local trip workings so one or two will be justified I think.

I'll be (finally) joining the LNER Society at the end of June (to get a full years membership) as I've found that they have a working timetable for the area dated 1938. Figuring out what I would like to represent from this will be an interesting challenge as there is no way I'll ever be able to replicate a whole day's workings!






Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 02, 2018, 07:22:51 pm
I've roughed out the basic layout plan. The scenic side will be replaced by a printed version of the map as XtrackCAD won't allow me to import it. Unfortunately, it looks unlikely that I will be able to model anything outside of the railway's boundaries which is a shame as I would have liked to have included the 'Railway Tavern' just to the east of the bridge.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-020518191520.jpeg)

Some revisions will be required to account for board joints but basically every storage road can be accessed from the main lines. I've employed kickback sidings to increase the number (and length) of roads available and the turntable will allow hands free movement/replacement of locos to maximise variations in formations. I foresee that I'll have to use some mirrors, angled above the fiddle yard to see what is going on over the backscene.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 02, 2018, 08:20:23 pm
I foresee that I'll have to use some mirrors, angled above the fiddle yard to see what is going on over the backscene.


What a spiffing idea, Steve! ;)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 02, 2018, 08:28:01 pm
I think that you are right about it being 1936 rather than 1935.  A handwritten 5 and 6 can be easily confused!  2510 was not in Works on 5 March 1936.  She was also allocated to KX for most of 1936, going to Gateshead on 15 December (back at KX 26/1/1937), presumably to cover for 2511 which was in Works for a General at that time.  All this supports your idea.

Thank you for the track plan.  Such extensive storage sidings will allow you to have a fantastic parade of trains through your 1:148 Hadley Wood.  I look forward to seeing them.  Hopefully with at least one of the mighty 'P1' class - British railways' second 2-8-2 type as I recall.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: port perran on May 02, 2018, 08:36:43 pm
I’m looking forward to seeing this build.
What I know about the LNER is very limited but this should be very interesting.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 02, 2018, 11:10:30 pm
What a spiffing idea, Steve! ;)

[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050[/url])


What can I say, great minds think alike Mick!  :D

I think that you are right about it being 1936 rather than 1935.  A handwritten 5 and 6 can be easily confused!  2510 was not in Works on 5 March 1936.  She was also allocated to KX for most of 1936, going to Gateshead on 15 December (back at KX 26/1/1937), presumably to cover for 2511 which was in Works for a General at that time.  All this supports your idea.

Thank you for the track plan.  Such extensive storage sidings will allow you to have a fantastic parade of trains through your 1:148 Hadley Wood.  I look forward to seeing them.  Hopefully with at least one of the mighty 'P1' class - British railways' second 2-8-2 type as I recall.


That makes a lot of sense John and I think that's the story we'll stick to!

The storage sidings will provide a nice selection of motive power and stock but it'll still be a tiny fraction of what would have passed through each day. There will be a lot of stock to build in the future to fill the storage room I'm planning, that's for sure! Both the P1 and P2 are on my list of locomotives to build. The P2s were Scottish locos but they all ended up at Kings Cross at one time or another. See the link for a picture of Earl Marischal heading south through Hadley Wood in 1934.

https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d'actualité/train-hauled-by-the-london-and-north-eastern-railway-photo-dactualité/153927887?#/train-hauled-by-the-london-and-north-eastern-railway-class-p2-no-picture-id153927887 (https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d'actualité/train-hauled-by-the-london-and-north-eastern-railway-photo-dactualité/153927887?#/train-hauled-by-the-london-and-north-eastern-railway-class-p2-no-picture-id153927887)


I’m looking forward to seeing this build.
What I know about the LNER is very limited but this should be very interesting.



Thanks Port Perran! I've been fascinated with the LNER for as long as I can remember. I think the biggest enticement for me is the extremes of the locomotives and stock. On the one hand the LNER were often at the forefront of development and innovation (not always successfully I might add) but at the same time cash strapped. It makes interesting contrasts to see an A4 passing something that was built at the turn of the century.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 03, 2018, 10:55:38 pm
Having scaled the map over the original plan, I found that I'd lose the Railway Tavern (that never did get a license and apparently was a private dwelling by the 30s) and the first house of 'Crescent East'. So I reworked the plan moving the scenic lines forward by a couple of inches and losing a road or two from the fiddle yard. Following this I found that the two buildings would still end up behind the back-scene so I've compressed the width in that area (cutting and pasting using Gimp) a little to squeeze them in...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-030518224900.jpeg)

The first compromise (but I doubt the last), I think I'll get away with this and the important thing for me is that the distance between the tunnels is still to scale.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DaveGlew on May 04, 2018, 05:12:17 am
That is quite some enterprise - I look forward to development..... and the storage - just wow!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 04, 2018, 05:28:24 am
Yep, this is just getting better and better.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 04, 2018, 07:15:01 am
Thank you for your kind comments. The theory behind the Fiddle yard is that I can use the kickback sidings for train storeage, running them out and (following a run through the scenic section) reverse them back in. This concept works very well on Little Bytham (Tony Wright's incredible 4mm scale model) and I'm hoping that I can emulate this. However this does mean that a couple of lines are dedicated to this reversing operation (to remove the need to reverse trains around a 180 degree curve!) and cannot be used to hold stock.

The longest loop lines are over eight foot in length and will be used to store the up coal and down empties. In theory this means that I can have c. 50 wagons in these trains - bearing in mine that 80 was generally considered the maximum for the O2s. The shortest kickback siding is just under three foot and will be used to store local workings and short expresses (of which there were quite a few apparently).

All this is dependant on a couple of scratch built point formations though. I could make these by chopping up a couple of scissor crossings and double slips but the prices for these are eye watering for something that might not work. I've now built a point and crossing from Finetrax with the last two points for the scenic section on the way. Hopefully this will give me enough experience to tackle a 'simple' scratch built point as a test piece before trying anything more complex.

If I'm successful in my scratch building, this will given me twenty storage roads plus some shorter sidings for loose stock and locos in an area only 16 inches wide. As somebody pointed out to me, Hadley Wood would easily see ten trains in each direction per hour in reality! :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 04, 2018, 07:29:18 am
Awesome!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 04, 2018, 08:08:21 am
Awesome!  :thumbsup:

It'll only be awesome if the theory works in practice!  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: weave on May 04, 2018, 08:31:15 am
Morning Atso,

All sounds very interesting. Looking forward to your build.

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 04, 2018, 08:46:12 am
Awesome!  :thumbsup:

It'll only be awesome if the theory works in practice!  :smiley-laughing:

Yes indeed, but that's the challenge!

To me that's one of the great things about this hobby. Solving the problems as they come up. :beers:

Really looking forward to this.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 04, 2018, 10:36:28 am
The mind boggles at the cost of stocking the fiddle yard :goggleeyes:
I can see why it's a long term project.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 04, 2018, 12:47:33 pm
The mind boggles at the cost of stocking the fiddle yard :goggleeyes:
I can see why it's a long term project.

I'm not even going to think about that aspect! All I'll say is that my tenth Dapol A3 will be with me next month (birthday present) and represents the eighth I've bought either second hand or as a spares/repair for considerably under the RRP (cheapest was a wreck for £10 that I spend another £20, and about a week, in repairs). In case you're interested, the latest one will end up as 4470 'Great Northern' as it was in 1937 with high sided tender but still in original Gresley A1 condition (i.e. no superheater header covers and right hand drive).

The current available and in progress motive power includes:

A1: 4472 'Flying Scotsman' (rebuilt from a wrecked A3 'Papyrus' and paired with a corridor tender back dated to c. 1928-36 condition).
A3: 4480 'Enterprise' (modified 'Papyrus' to right hand drive)
A3: 2500 'Windsor Lad' (Reworked 'Flying Scotsman' with bango dome and paired with a high sided non-corridor tender)
A1: 2562 'Isinglass' (modified 'Grand Parade': purchased spares/repair not yet complete)
A1: 2568 'Sceptre' (as for 'Isinglass' but with westinghouse brake pump dating it to 1933 or earlier: purchased spares/repair not yet complete)
A3: 2573 'Harvester' (as for 'Sceptre' but right hand drive A3: purchased spares/repair not yet complete)
A3: 2744 'Grand Parade' (standard Dapol)
A3: 2750 'Papyrus' (standard Dapol)
A3: 2751 'Humorist' (backdated and repainted BR 'Gladiateur' the only A3 fitted with a double chimney by the LNER)
A4: 2510 'Quick Silver' (standard Dapol)
A4: 4482 'Golden Eagle (standard Dapol)
A4: 4487 'Sea Eagle' (standard Dapol)
A4: 4490 'Empire of India (standard Dapol with incorrect double chimney!)
B17: 2871 'Manchester City' (standard Dapol - not strictly appropriate for Hadley Wood)
C1: 3279 (Gresley rebuild with outside valve gear - 3D printed body on Farish Jubilee chassis with Union Mills tender drive. A very early effort and awaiting a replacement to be built)
C12: 4519 (3D printed body on modified Dapol 14xx chassis and Farish front bogie)
D11: To be 5506 'Butler-Henderson (Union Mills upgrade, awaiting repaint from BR green)
D16/3: not numbered (Union Mills BR version to be repainted)
D49: 234 'Yorkshire' (3D printed body on Dapol Schools chassis with Dapol B1 tender frames and modified M7 bogie moulding - in bits again at the moment!)
J6 (x2): Not numbered (unfinished project 3D printed body on Farish J39 chassi)
J11: Not numbered (Upgraded Union Mills awaiting repaint)
J39: 1856 (Standard Farish)
J50: 617 (3D printed body on custom built chassis from N-Stars in Holland)
K3: 4004 (GNR cab version, 3D printed body on Farish N class chassis with V2 tender frames and modified J39 tender body)
K3: 2425 (LNER built, 3D printed loco and tender body on Farish N class chassis with V2 tender frames)
N2: 4744 (3D printed body on modified Farish 3MT chassis)
N2: 4750 (3D printed body on modified Farish N class chassis)
Q2: Not numbered (Union Mills)
V1: Not numbered (3D printed body on Farish N class chassis - test build in progress before making the print available to buy)
V2: 4771 'Green Arrow' (renumbered Farish - awaiting rebuild/replacement)
V2: 4844 'Coldstreamer' (Standard Farish - awaiting rebuild/replacement)

Total 32 locomotives: Collected or made/modified over a number of years (many when I once had a well paying 9-5 job before I got sick - several years in the past now!) and by constantly searching out the bargains and spares/repairs. That's not including the 3D printed A5 body I have, waiting for a suitable donor chassis to be found! For a general rounding out of the more typical motive power seen through Hadley Wood I really should make a 'standard C1', D2, J3, J52, K2, N1 and O2 as well. It does raise the question of can you really have too many locomotives? I didn't realise just how many I have until I made this list! Rolling stock is another matter and there is no way that I could fill out more than six roads with what I have at the moment!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on May 04, 2018, 03:47:14 pm
That is an impressive list!!  very jealous, my own LNER stable is largely limited to off the shelf ones ... though have just taken delivery of A3 60061 "Pretty Polly" ... courtesy of TMC

Would be lovely to see D49 "Morayshire" grace Hadley Wood  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 04, 2018, 04:23:40 pm
That's one helluva loco roster, but I was thinking more of............

The longest loop lines are over eight foot in length and will be used to store the up coal and down empties. In theory this means that I can have c. 50 wagons in these trains

Depending on what you buy that's going to be around £1000 - £1500 for 2 trains, less what you already own, of course :goggleeyes:

(And, yes, I'm scared to try and put a value on my own stock :worried:)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 04, 2018, 05:11:06 pm
That is an impressive list!!  very jealous, my own LNER stable is largely limited to off the shelf ones ... though have just taken delivery of A3 60061 "Pretty Polly" ... courtesy of TMC

Would be lovely to see D49 "Morayshire" grace Hadley Wood  :)


It has been built up over a number of years and has mainly taken advantage of discounts, sand hand bargains and items that need repairing. Unfortunately, 'Morayshire' is unlikely to ever grace Hadley Wood as the D49s weren't common locomotives at the southern end of the system. My model of Yorkshire was originally going to be Lincolnshire as it was allocated to Kings Cross briefly c. 1929. However, nobody made any nameplates for Lincolnshire and, as I was going up to Pickering and seeing some of the Scarborough club (North of England Line), it became Yorkshire, came with me and got some running rights for the day!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/213-270817133330.jpeg)
(Photo taken by Tony Wright and thanks to the NoEL team for letting me play for a little while!)

TMC do some lovely stuff, don't they? Unfortunately, it falls outside of my price bracket at the moment but does serve as inspiration to improve my own models.

Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 04, 2018, 05:16:57 pm
Depending on what you buy that's going to be around £1000 - £1500 for 2 trains, less what you already own, of course :goggleeyes:

(And, yes, I'm scared to try and put a value on my own stock :worried:)

It does get expensive but I find a combination of shopping around and kit building goes a long way to reducing the costs. However, that does mean that I've got a lot of wagons currently awaiting the paint shop!

Re Shopping Around: I found quite a bit of Farish in an antiques shop in Cheltenham last year. Chief amongst them was the old sand wagon but there were quite a few new type PO wagons as well. The owner wanted £10 for the sand wagon as it was 'rare' but only £1.50 for each of the new POs as they weren't old and 'common as muck'! I feel I got a good bargain that day for £25! My girlfriend now jokes and I have a sixth sense for finding N gauge items in the most unlikely of places!

Totalling up the total worth of everything I own..... my head hurts! Yes, it is quite scary when you think about it.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 04, 2018, 06:14:21 pm
That is an impressive list!!  very jealous, my own LNER stable is largely limited to off the shelf ones ... though have just taken delivery of A3 60061 "Pretty Polly" ... courtesy of TMC

Would be lovely to see D49 "Morayshire" grace Hadley Wood  :)


It has been built up over a number of years and has mainly taken advantage of discounts, sand hand bargains and items that need repairing. Unfortunately, 'Morayshire' is unlikely to ever grace Hadley Wood as the D49s weren't common locomotives at the southern end of the system. My model of Yorkshire was originally going to be Lincolnshire as it was allocated to Kings Cross briefly c. 1929. However, nobody made any nameplates for Lincolnshire and, as I was going up to Pickering and seeing some of the Scarborough club (North of England Line), it became Yorkshire, came with me and got some running rights for the day!

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/213-270817133330.jpeg[/url])
(Photo taken by Tony Wright and thanks to the NoEL team for letting me play for a little while!)

TMC do some lovely stuff, don't they? Unfortunately, it falls outside of my price bracket at the moment but does serve as inspiration to improve my own models.


Improve?!  I'm at a loss to see how Yorkshire could be improved  :goggleeyes:.

 :greatpicturessign:
John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on May 04, 2018, 06:52:36 pm
Thanks John, I need to pluck up the courage to give it a light weathering but not as heavy as this:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/213-270817133352.jpeg)

Another Tony Wright photograph taken on NoEL. The GCR fish van isn't mine I'm afraid, it was scratch built by MikeJ of the Scarborough club and is very impressive!

Somebody on another forum found the a signaling diagram for Hadley Wood c. 1932: https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=335 (https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=335)

This has been a brilliant find as it clears up that there were no ground signals controlling the goods sidings (can't really call it a yard!) and that the signal mounted on the southern face of the bridge had been removed by that point. It also shows that I've only got two signals to model and that one of the is a colour light one. However, all the pictures of the semaphore I've got are from the 1950's and I don't know when the somersault signal was replaced with an upper quadrant type.

I've also spent a little time working out the approximate dimensions of the signal box. By the period I'm modelling, the signal box was being used as a covered ground frame with the box at Greenwood (between New Barnet and the south Hadley tunnel) controlling Hadley Wood and only unlocking the Hadley box when the goods sidings were in use.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-040518184732.jpeg)

Very rough (and incomplete) at the moment but I've been helped by a photograph of a quad set passing by the signal box. This confirmed that the roof of the box came to the same height as the roof of the coaches and gave me a known dimension to work out the rest. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of the front of the box, so this has had to be complete guesswork. The box was a timber upper part resting on a brick base and intersecting with the platform ramp. I'll get around to building a study model at some point but next week has to be spent on getting some CADs finished!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 05, 2018, 05:32:32 pm
Hi all,

Not too much progress to report, I'm afraid. I was hit by another bout of depression recently which managed to completely take me by surprise and wipe me out for a couple of weeks. This has been really annoying as I've been getting very good at managing this and haven't had any serious problems for some time. However, my better half surprised me with a mini-break to Somerset and, while I wasn't too keen at the time, four days away really helped me to switch off and recuperate.

I've been toying with the idea of hand building the fiddle yard track out of code 40 rail and copper clad as I'm not presently (or likely be be in the near future) cash rich. The cost of buying quite a few Peco points and having to modify them to fit some unusual formations was eye watering. I've tried to use Templot but I've not gotten to grips with it yet. Therefore, I spent a little bit of time this morning mocking up a short radius turnout in CAD.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-050618172523.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=66074)

Once I've finished tweaking it, I'll use a 2D image to print a template on which to build a test piece. While I've successfully assembled some of Finetrax turnouts, this will be the first time I've attempted a scratchbuild but I feel reasonably confident that it can be done. :) Should this prove successful then I'll have a go with a double slip.

A side benefit of building my own fiddle yard track is that I won't have to worry about raising the Finetrax to a level to be compatible with Peco code 55 or code 80.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 05, 2018, 08:33:04 pm
I'm sure there's plenty of folks interested to see how you get on, Steve, so keep us posted please.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 05, 2018, 11:07:58 pm
I'm sure there's plenty of folks interested to see how you get on, Steve, so keep us posted please.

Thanks Mick. I've got to adjust the check rail clearances as I've set them to 0.8mm opinion the CAD which results in a distance of 7.4mm. Having measured the back to backs of some Peco wheels (too poor to re wheel all of these at the moment), I'm likely to end up with clearance issues. Therefore I'll be adjusting the check rails to give a clearance of 0.9mm - I'm not inclined to mess with the back to backs too much and it would be nice if visiting locomotives could use the layout once built.

As the turnout isn't in the visible section, I've skimped with the number of sleepers. Hopefully this will still prove robust enough once built.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: GreyWolf on June 06, 2018, 08:01:24 am
Very impressive CAD drawing there!  :thankyousign:

Cheers  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 06, 2018, 10:11:07 am
Very impressive CAD drawing there! 


Thank you GreyWolf, it'll be even more impressive if it leads to a working scratchbuilt turnout!  :D

According to my parents, girlfriend and Facebook, it is my birthday today - I'm now getting to the point where I like to try and forget these! However, this morning did see a nice selection of presents for Hadley Wood.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-060618100336.jpeg)

My parents bought me the final two Finetrax turnouts for the scenic section of the layout, these will be employed to access the goods sidings. Some spare sleeper bases were also in the package which provides me with spares and (hopefully) an easy way to hold rail in gauge (and upright) while the initial few solder joints are made on the toe of the points.

My girlfriend got me Papyrus - actually, I found it on Ebay last month for very little money and pointed it out to her. It runs perfectly and I wonder why nobody else bid on it... This one will be backdated into Gresley's original A1 'Great Northern' as she was c. 1937 with high sided non-corridor tender. I just need to finish the other three Dapol A3 conversions I've had on the go for eight months first!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on June 06, 2018, 10:21:33 am
I admire scratch built track and have done for all my years.

However, in the words of Clint Eastwood, "A man's gotta know his limitations."

Hence I'm stuck with Peco.

Looking forward to developments!  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 06, 2018, 11:21:58 am
I admire scratch built track and have done for all my years.

However, in the words of Clint Eastwood, "A man's gotta know his limitations."

Hence I'm stuck with Peco.

Looking forward to developments!  :beers:


Thanks Bealman. As I've never scratch built any track before (although the Finetrax kits are part way there) it could all end up as a glorious disaster!

While I agree with Mr Eastwood's quote, I like to try and find where my limitations are - usually where I thought they were but I've gotten lucky a few times by seriously pushing my luck! ;)

If all goes to pot then I'll be back to using Peco for the fiddle yard. Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: GreyWolf on June 06, 2018, 11:31:48 am
According to my parents, girlfriend and Facebook, it is my birthday today - I'm now getting to the point where I like to try and forget these! However, this morning did see a nice selection of presents for Hadley Wood.
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-060618100336.jpeg[/url])

Happy Birthday  :toot:

Looks like some nice presents there, enjoy!

My girlfriend got me Papyrus ... I wonder why nobody else bid on it...


Don't think the Ancient Egyptians had railways ??  :hmmm:

 :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 06, 2018, 01:10:02 pm
Happy Birthday  :toot:

Looks like some nice presents there, enjoy!

Thanks, I'm very happy with them! However, I'm not looking forward to threading another couple of hundred (or close too) individual rail chairs but these are the final two scenic turnouts. :)

Don't think the Ancient Egyptians had railways ??  :hmmm:

I didn't either, I guess that someone rewrote history at some point. Worse still, it appears that Gresley plagiarised the Egyptian's locomotive design!  :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 06, 2018, 03:36:58 pm
Happy Birthday, Steve :toot:

Not sure if I'm losing the plot or not but your layout build sounds as if you'll have Finetrax in the fiddle yard and Peco on the scenic side :confused2:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 06, 2018, 03:50:19 pm
Happy Birthday, Steve :toot:

Not sure if I'm losing the plot or not but your layout build sounds as if you'll have Finetrax in the fiddle yard and Peco on the scenic side :confused2:

Thank you Mick,

You're not losing the plot (that was lost a long time ago!  :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: ). The scenic side will use Finetrax while the fiddle yard will be attempted using hand laid track on copper clad sleepers. In fact I've just ordered some bits from the 2mm Scale Association so that I can build a test piece.  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 06, 2018, 04:00:47 pm
Aha! The coin has now dropped. Thanks for putting me right :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 06, 2018, 04:32:25 pm
Aha! The coin has now dropped. Thanks for putting me right :thumbsup:

No problem. :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 07, 2018, 07:25:39 pm
Hi all,

I spent a couple of hour this afternoon building one of the Finetrax B6 turnouts I got yesterday.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-070618192400.jpeg)

The next one will be the last turnout required for the scenic section of Hadley Wood! :D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 08, 2018, 12:49:20 pm
This morning saw the final Finetrax turnout for the scenic section of the layout constructed.  :)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-080618124751.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=66193)

Looking at the earlier efforts, I might revisit the blades and tiebars to improve the clearances slightly.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 09, 2018, 01:59:31 pm
Following the arrival of some bits from the 2mm scale association today, I'm going to admit to feeling slightly smug at the moment.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-090618135234.jpeg)

Above is the test build of my first scratch built turnout based on the CAD shown a few posts about. The curve is a 12 inch radius but looks bigger as I included enough track at each end to take a wagon for testing. As I don't have any gauges, I set my calipers to 9 mm and used these to set the gauge - likewise with the check rails set at 0.9mm clearance. Amazingly a Peco wagon runs through the turnout without any problems. Construction time was about 2 hours but quite a bit of that time was working out how I wanted to tackle various things so I think I could get the time down a bit. Overall cost in materials must be less than £2.

Sorry about the untidy soldering, I have gaped the sleepers that were clogged with solder since the picture was taken.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 09, 2018, 02:18:49 pm

Sorry about the untidy soldering

Hah! You've never seen (and never will see) my attempts at soldering. It's so bad I have to get someone else to do it for me.

You should feel smug. It looks very good.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: RailGooner on June 09, 2018, 02:34:23 pm
Cracking job. :thumbsup: I lack the courage to tackle DIY track. :envy:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 09, 2018, 08:21:15 pm
Thanks guys,

Mick, you'll never see my earliest attempts at soldering either. I found the key was to have a hot iron and a good flux. For general modelling, I now use Carrs 145 degree solder and 9% liquid phosphoric acid flux (both available at Eileen's Emporium). For the turnout, I used general electrical solder and a small amount of Fry's Power Flux paste as I didn't want the solder to flow too much.

RailGooner, I would have never thought I'd try and scratch build my own track either. However, having built several of the Finetrax turnouts, I though 'how hard can it be?!'

The answer to that is not as hard as I thought it would be and quicker than threading plastic chairs onto code 40 rail - although the Finetrax turnouts look far better and there is no way I'm replacing them with copper clad for the scenic section!

I paid £7.50 for ten meters of code 40 rail, £2.50 for 500 'regular' sleepers and £2.50 for 75 50mm long sleepers. At most, the turnout consumed a meter or rail, 18 regular sleepers and 7 long sleepers so about £1.11 in raw materials (plus whatever the cost of the solder and flux was). However, it does cost £20 to join the 2mm Association to gain access to their shops - but this does give you access to a lot of items.

I do already own a Finetrax rail filing jig (a Christmas present with my first turnout kit) which I used to file the blades and frog. Again, this isn't too expensive to buy.

As I am currently cash poor, I'm really encouraged by the result of this experiment and I'm looking forward to tackling a couple of complex formations in the future. :)

Have a go, it isn't a huge amount of money to invest (compared to buying rtr turnouts) and you may well (like I have) surprise yourself.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 10, 2018, 06:00:02 pm
I've soldered up a few straight pieces of track and lashed up a temporary test track on a bit of shelving. At the moment I'm having to change the polarity of the frog using some crocodile clips but some test locomotives have run through the turnout under power!

Here is the proof...



While not in the video, a Dapol valanced A4 has also been tested without incident. I think there might be some mileage in hand building the fiddle yard track...  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Roy L S on June 10, 2018, 07:13:14 pm
Hi Steve

Really impressed, the point works perfectly! A great solution for Hadley Wood's Fiddle Yard, I'm even encouraged to have a go myself!

Roy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 10, 2018, 08:39:31 pm
Hi Steve

Really impressed, the point works perfectly! A great solution for Hadley Wood's Fiddle Yard, I'm even encouraged to have a go myself!

Roy


Thanks Roy, believe it or not the most troublesome area is one of the straights as it isn't quite level. This causes occasional stalling on the Jinty but no problem for larger locomotives. The turnout itself is great with nothing stalling on it at all so far. :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 10, 2018, 09:15:10 pm

Have a go, you may well (like I have) surprise yourself.

Doubt it. One of my school reports read "his work turned out to the standard I anticipated" :confused2: :'(
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 11, 2018, 09:05:25 am
Doubt it. One of my school reports read "his work turned out to the standard I anticipated" :confused2: :'(

That's no necessarily a bad thing Mick, the standard anticipated could have been very high!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on June 11, 2018, 09:16:05 am
My 1965 report said "Mathematics is not his best subject"

Went on to become a physics teacher, so the young Beatles fan that he was probably didn't know much more than me at the time  ;)

Back to the layout....

Following along with great interest!  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 12, 2018, 03:04:22 pm
I've built a second turnout around some other jobs on the go today.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-120618145735.jpeg)

This time I printed off a second copy of the plan which was then stuck to some 0.5mm thick cardboard. I then cut out some crude disposable jigs of the frog and angles for the check rails from this. Excluding the time taken make the jigs, the turnout was constructed in under two hours this time.

Now if I can just make a double slip that works, I'll be using this method for the fiddle yard!  :o
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 12, 2018, 09:03:27 pm
Ok so I've decided to try and tackle the double slip. This is the progress after a couple of hours this evening.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-120618202428.jpeg)

There is still a bit still to do but it is looking promising at the moment. I haven't thought about how to isolate the various sections, I just want to be able to free wheel some wagons though this one to prove it works.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Roy L S on June 12, 2018, 10:54:01 pm
Terrific work Steve, you certainly are bringing this whole concept on in leaps and bounds!

Roy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on June 12, 2018, 11:00:13 pm
Thank You is locked
Why?

Thankyou btw.

Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 12, 2018, 11:01:38 pm
Thanks Roy,

If I get the double slip finished (and working) I'll bring it with me on Saturday for you to have a look at.

At two hours invested in it so far, it isn't quick but it is cheaper that the rtr alternative! :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 12, 2018, 11:02:42 pm
Thank You is locked
Why?

Thankyou btw.

Kirky

I don't know and can't seem to be able to unlock it!

Mick, can you help please?
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on June 12, 2018, 11:48:58 pm
Thanks Roy,

If I get the double slip finished (and working) I'll bring it with me on Saturday for you to have a look at.

At two hours invested in it so far, it isn't quick but it is cheaper that the rtr alternative! :)
Thats really interesting.
In another thread we've been discussing finer standards. I hadnt actually considered that cost could be an issue. And if you can knock out a point in a couple of hours thats about the same as a Finetrax point I think.
However, I really like your points Steve. I'm certainly considering moving over to a finer standard and I was thinking of using peco points in the fiddle yard, but this has got me thinking that a hand built fiddle yard maybe the way to go.
Needlesstosay, I'm impressed.

cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 13, 2018, 09:47:39 am
Thank You is locked
Why?

Thankyou btw.

Kirky

I don't know and can't seem to be able to unlock it!

Mick, can you help please?

Unlocked. Someone must have hit the 'Lock Thank Yous' button in error.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on June 13, 2018, 10:27:21 am
Could have been me...

I have a reputation for it - especially on me phone!

If it was, sorry!  :-[
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 13, 2018, 12:01:41 pm
Thats really interesting.
In another thread we've been discussing finer standards. I hadnt actually considered that cost could be an issue. And if you can knock out a point in a couple of hours thats about the same as a Finetrax point I think.
However, I really like your points Steve. I'm certainly considering moving over to a finer standard and I was thinking of using peco points in the fiddle yard, but this has got me thinking that a hand built fiddle yard maybe the way to go.
Needlesstosay, I'm impressed.


Actually the cost is one of the driving factors for me (being of extremely limited funds at the moment) along with the desire to get smoother running - although not going to anywhere near the lengths that Richard (Belstone) is pursuing (isn't his work fantastic!). The other factor is having something that (hopefully) will be easier to match up the Finetrax in the scenic section to. That said there is a c. 0.3mm difference in the height to sort out.

I've finished my first attempt at the double slip which is pictured with the earlier second attempt at a turnout.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-130618114701.jpeg)

It does work but could possibly benefit from some gauge widening in a couple of areas. However for my first attempt at this, I'm very pleased and will hopefully only get better with practice. I didn't used the rail filing jig either but wish I had now as the blades don't make contact as well as the turnout; I might remake these later. The tiebars are very stiff which isn't surprising as they've got four short blades attached to them! 

Hattons is listing the Peco code 55 double slip at £38, mine cost considerably less but took three and a half hours to build. Given that I need several of these for the fiddle yard, it makes sense to me to build them rather than pay a lot of money!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 13, 2018, 12:02:46 pm
Unlocked. Someone must have hit the 'Lock Thank Yous' button in error.

Thanks Mick, I'm pretty sure it wasn't me...

Could have been me...

I have a reputation for it - especially on me phone!

If it was, sorry!  :-[

Thanks Bealman, I'm sure it wasn't you. :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on June 13, 2018, 04:43:06 pm

Actually the cost is one of the driving factors for me (being of extremely limited funds at the moment) along with the desire to get smoother running - although not going to anywhere near the lengths that Richard (Belstone) is pursuing (isn't his work fantastic!). The other factor is having something that (hopefully) will be easier to match up the Finetrax in the scenic section to. That said there is a c. 0.3mm difference in the height to sort out.

I've finished my first attempt at the double slip which is pictured with the earlier second attempt at a turnout.

Steve, you are clearly not looking at this objectively. Your point work is easily good enough for the viewable side of things. You might need a couple more sleepers though! :D

As I said on @belstone (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2569) 's thread earlier, all this handbuilding of points is giving me itchy fingers. I really want to get started on mine. Unfortunately I've only got a month to get Northallerton ready for RailexNE.
Thanks for sharing your work Steve, most appreciated.
cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Atso on June 13, 2018, 06:11:10 pm
Steve, you are clearly not looking at this objectively. Your point work is easily good enough for the viewable side of things. You might need a couple more sleepers though! :D


Thanks Kirky, but it really isn't. It has too many solder blobs for use in the scenic section (especially the double slip!) and it is missing the chairs for the rails which I notice on Finetrax.

As I said on @belstone ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2569[/url]) 's thread earlier, all this handbuilding of points is giving me itchy fingers. I really want to get started on mine. Unfortunately I've only got a month to get Northallerton ready for RailexNE.


Go for it! Until five days ago I'd never tried to solder up cooper clad track, although I did have some experience having built five Finetrax point kits. Even without a roller gauge (just a ruler and some calipers in my case), it really isn't as difficult as it looks but a plan of the piece of track is essential.

Thanks for sharing your work Steve, most appreciated.


No problem, I'm glad someone is enjoying my bodging (I'm sure more experience people are holding their heads in their hands regarding my methods!).