N Gauge Forum

Product Reviews => N Gauge Locos and Rolling Stock Reviews => Union Mills => Topic started by: Roy L S on May 06, 2015, 07:05:37 pm

Title: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on May 06, 2015, 07:05:37 pm
Hi All

I was on the phone to Colin Heard today to obtain a replacement tender drive for my D16/3.

I happened to ask if he had decided what his next loco would be and he advised that it is likely to be a Dean Goods. A great choice of loco and finally a GW type from the UM stable, so I'm thinking a lot of people will be very happy....

Hope this is of interest.

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on May 06, 2015, 08:44:12 pm
It is over 10 years since I sold Abersoch and all the ex GWR stock I had to run the Cambrian half of the service.  I would have liked a Dean Goods at that time as they were part of the Cambrian scene into early 50s.  So a few years too late but I am delighted for GWR fans.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: port perran on May 06, 2015, 08:58:28 pm
Great to hear that an ex GW type is finally likely to come from Union Mills.
Not a type associated with Cornwall but I might be tempted...............
Let's wait and see?? :-\
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on May 06, 2015, 11:35:22 pm
I will be interested to see how he gets his tender drive to fit with a loco which had such a low sided tender.  Perhaps a "preserved" one on specials down the Port Road to Portpatrick Town?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: N_south on May 06, 2015, 11:58:55 pm
a dean goods

Oh yes  :D oh though i was hoping for a some form of southern 4-4-0 or 0-6-0 but a dean goods would will be helpful :-D  :laugh3:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Ensign Elliott on May 07, 2015, 09:16:36 am
Fantastic news!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Agrippa on May 07, 2015, 09:29:35 am
a dean goods

Oh yes  :D oh though i was hoping for a some form of southern 4-4-0 or 0-6-0 but a dean goods would will be helpful :-D  :laugh3:


Don't forget there's already 2 locos in Southern livery plus a S&DJR loco.
However a new UM loco is always good news, no fancy detailing or bag of
add ons just a solid reliable product. All the GWR geezers  will be drooling.
Myself included.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 07, 2015, 09:50:36 am
Quote
Don't forget there's already 2 locos in Southern livery
]


I make it 3, T9, 700 & 0395.

[pedant mode on]
If modelling SR the S&DJR one only counts if you model Templecombe, or the Bournemouth/Poole area; if you model S&DJR then an occasional visit by a T9 is OK for BR days;  during WW2 there were a couple on loan, however they would all have been the narrow cab & watercart tender series.
[/pedant mode off]
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: DarthBadger on May 07, 2015, 11:39:07 am
a dean goods

Oh yes  :D oh though i was hoping for a some form of southern 4-4-0 or 0-6-0 but a dean goods would will be helpful :-D  :laugh3:


Don't forget there's already 2 locos in Southern livery plus a S&DJR loco.
However a new UM loco is always good news, no fancy detailing or bag of
add ons just a solid reliable product. All the GWR geezers  will be drooling.
Myself included.

What he said! Oh YES!  :bounce:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bealman on May 07, 2015, 11:45:49 am
Dunno what we're gonna do with you West Country folk, I really don't.  ;)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: CarriageShed on May 07, 2015, 12:32:07 pm
Dunno what we're gonna do with you West Country folk, I really don't.  ;)

Just give us more cider and we're happy  ;)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 07, 2015, 12:34:57 pm
Dunno what we're gonna do with you West Country folk, I really don't.  ;)

Just give us more cider and we're happy  ;)

OOAARR, cider must be scrumpy though, plenty of body in it, - if enough rats don't fall in the vat they chuck in a side of beef!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bealman on May 07, 2015, 12:53:40 pm
Ha ha, you guys are really bringing back memories.... a young Bealman  spent his 21st birthday on a camping holiday with his mates in Cheddar, on srcumpi,  thank you very much. Mix with Guiness  and it was, of course, a mess.

Anyway, off topic.  ;)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: paulprice on May 07, 2015, 01:25:37 pm
How can you mix the glorious Guiness with anything, is that why you live down under to escape the shame  :beers:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Arrachogaidh on May 07, 2015, 02:12:55 pm
If it had been a Jones Goods I'd be interested............   :thumbsdown:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emgeedee/jpgstore/jones.jpg (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emgeedee/jpgstore/jones.jpg)

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on May 07, 2015, 02:36:57 pm
If it had been a Jones Goods I'd be interested............   :thumbsdown:

[url]http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emgeedee/jpgstore/jones.jpg[/url] ([url]http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emgeedee/jpgstore/jones.jpg[/url])



Now that would be nice.  From memory - must look at my DVDs,- No 103 did run a special from Girvan to Stranraer, or maybe vice versa.Though I note he has only done simple inside cylinder models so fay.  But even I could  justify buying one!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Rabs on May 07, 2015, 04:20:30 pm
Reads news.
Dribbles a bit.
Reaches for wallet only to find that it's not for sale yet.
Thinks: "come on, I've know about this for a full 60 seconds and it's still not for sale!"
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: dch05 on May 07, 2015, 06:57:11 pm
:bounce: :claphappy:  YES !!!  This will sooth us while we await the Farish Castle, which seems to be slipping further into the future.  Which will come first I wonder?

dch05
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bealman on May 07, 2015, 11:36:11 pm
How can you mix the glorious Guiness with anything, is that why you live down under to escape the shame  :beers:
Well you do have a point there, but I was young, remember. All I remember is that the concoction lifted me lid off  ;D

Serious  (but probably dumb) question :

Is the loco named after it's designer, or the Forest of Dean?

George
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Agrippa on May 08, 2015, 01:37:47 am
well  :offtopicsign:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: railsquid on May 08, 2015, 02:42:05 am
Here's a pop quiz:

Is the loco named after it's designer, or the Forest of Dean?

* The popular tree-growing area Forest of Dean
* Dean from popular cinema advertising duo Pearl and Dean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_%26_Dean)
* Christopher Dean from 80's ice-dancing duo Torville and Dean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torvill_and_Dean)
* William Dean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dean_%28engineer%29),  second son of Henry Dean, manager of the Hawes Soap Factory in New Cross, London.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: mr bachmann on May 08, 2015, 07:55:07 pm
mmm , snakebite  :D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Jerry Howlett on May 09, 2015, 02:31:12 pm
No way would I buy another Union Mills loco that can pull 40 + wagons on the gradients and not even slow down. No way at all will I supplement my nice 4P or J26 especially with a western Dean Goods that will be well outside the era of my layout.  Honest....... ::)

Just do not produce it before Mrs "H" has the BIG Birthday....  But then there is that special present :hmmm:

Jerry
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on May 11, 2015, 10:08:34 am
Dean Goods?

 :claphappy:

After grumbling for years that UM never produced anything for us GWR fans, I had better get my wallet out. I can just see one trundling down the branch to Chew Magna with the daily pick-up goods.

Long lived, various liveries widespread. Sounds like a winner to me if UM can get the drive into the titchy Churchward tender.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bealman on May 11, 2015, 10:18:11 am
Yes indeed... that is a small tender. But, UM will deliver, I'm sure.

I still have had no sensible answer from the forum.... yes, I know there's a thing called fikipedia (typo), but whence comes the name (Dean Goods)?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Agrippa on May 11, 2015, 10:21:50 am
According to wiki the designer was William Dean .
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on May 11, 2015, 10:33:15 am
Yup, just named after the reigning CME at the time in the same way that we refer to Gresley Pacifics or Fairburn 2-6-4s.

There was a Collett Goods designed to replace them many years later but even so, a few Dean Goods were retained until well after nationalisation due to their low axle weight which made them ideal for various lightly laid branches. It was not until the building of the standard 2MT Moguls at Swindon that the last Dean Goods were finally pensioned off after over half a century of service.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bealman on May 11, 2015, 10:34:58 am
Thanks! I shall research the loco.

It is a nostalgia trip for me because the first ever issue of RM I ever read had an article about the locomotive.  :thumbsup: :beers:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on May 11, 2015, 12:23:39 pm
Long lived, various liveries widespread. Sounds like a winner to me if UM can get the drive into the titchy Churchward tender.

Hmm... the Adams 0395 seems to have had a similar sized tender, which the UM model "beefed up" a bit to make the motor fit. Do you think the same thing will happen here? Not that I'd mind... will definitely be buying one! Love the GWR 0-6-0s but didn't get around to getting the Peco one.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on May 11, 2015, 01:03:25 pm
The Dean Goods ran with both 2500 and 3000 gallon tenders IIRC. Going for the latter would give slightly more breathing room

Hmm... the Adams 0395 seems to have had a similar sized tender, which the UM model "beefed up" a bit to make the motor fit.


Looking at the photos, it looks like the 0395 tender was beefed up rather cleverly. The coal rails on the top of the coal space were modelled as solid on the UM model. A slight cheat perhaps but it looks good at normal viewing distances.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-n01l1Wr8UtE/U4rv64W0tAI/AAAAAAAAEJw/9-zjEIVMJL4/s1600/P1070340blog.jpg)
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_04_2013/post-4367-0-69667700-1366083237.jpg)

The Dean Goods however lacks a similar easy cheat so we will have to wait and see what they come up with.

(https://chasewaterstuff.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/2516-preserved.jpg)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 11, 2015, 02:04:39 pm
Compare the tenders on these pics (linked from Google)

00 model, note toolbox(?) at back, and no recess at front of side

(http://grahammuz.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/0395-3441_1.jpg)

UM model, no box at the back
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_04_2013/post-4367-0-97291800-1366083257.jpg)

UM model, toolbox at top front, front of side is recessed
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_04_2013/post-4367-0-69667700-1366083237.jpg)

UM model is a Drummond type, it can be made to look a bit more like an Adams one by adding the rear box and filling the recess at front of sides, file off front toolboxes.




Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on May 11, 2015, 02:11:12 pm
Ah, so is the tender UM have modelled not the norm for the class? Was it an uncommon variant or just plain wrong? I am not up on SR tenders.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 11, 2015, 03:23:59 pm
The UM tender is a Drummond one, I've done a Google images search on the 0395 , none shown with a Drummond tender; A quick red through the 0395 chapter in Bradley's Adams classes the only tender changes were to inherit some 3.300 gallon tenders from Adams A12 class withdrawals, these looked almost identical to the 0395 ones except slightly larger, the print on the dimensioned drawings in Bradley I can't even read with a magnifier so can't state what dimensions were.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: railsquid on May 12, 2015, 02:32:50 am
Yes indeed... that is a small tender. But, UM will deliver, I'm sure.

I still have had no sensible answer from the forum.... yes, I know there's a thing called fikipedia (typo), but whence comes the name (Dean Goods)?


As someone else said, from the designer. No idea why I vaguely knew that as my interest in kettles is limited. Though I'd like to try a UM one out of curiosity (which would bring my kettle fleet up to 3... or four if you include "James")
.
Anyway I see the upcoming NGS Journal has an article on how to build one from a kit, if you can't wait for UM to come up with the goods:

http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6307&start=60 (http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6307&start=60)

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: R Marshall on May 12, 2015, 09:59:50 am
The UM tender is a Drummond one, I've done a Google images search on the 0395 , none shown with a Drummond tender; A quick red through the 0395 chapter in Bradley's Adams classes the only tender changes were to inherit some 3.300 gallon tenders from Adams A12 class withdrawals, these looked almost identical to the 0395 ones except slightly larger, the print on the dimensioned drawings in Bradley I can't even read with a magnifier so can't state what dimensions were.

I'm no expert on SR matters, but the pictures I've seen of this class in BR days show a tender without a recess at the front of the side, but also without a toolbox on the rear as far as I can tell on all - but definitely including 30567 and 30577 - all I've seen had the small BR crest too.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Les1952 on May 17, 2015, 08:58:29 pm
Looking at the pics of the Adams 0-6-0 the tender looks a bit like UM's "generic" small tender which is based on a Midland type.  I think the water filler has moved but very little else.

I've found it necessary to remodel tenders on just about all my UM locos to make them look more like the real thing- and for many of the LNER types that has involved buying a "loose" tender from Colin to get a smaller body and putting the displaced oversize one onto eBay....

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: R Marshall on May 17, 2015, 10:02:38 pm
Les,

I'm thinking about a smaller tender for my D20 - how much have you paid for a spare tender and was this with, or without the drive mechanism and motor?

Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on May 18, 2015, 10:16:52 am
Looking at the pics of the Adams 0-6-0 the tender looks a bit like UM's "generic" small tender which is based on a Midland type.  I think the water filler has moved but very little else.

I've found it necessary to remodel tenders on just about all my UM locos to make them look more like the real thing- and for many of the LNER types that has involved buying a "loose" tender from Colin to get a smaller body and putting the displaced oversize one onto eBay....

All the very best
Les

Hi Les

There are a number of other differences compared to the tender used for the MIdland 3F ( I have both), including chassis, front tool boxes, hand rails, overall length so I agree with Dorset Mike above that it is a reasonable representation of the Drummond tender

However, as you say it does seem to be oversize. The height and width seem to be about 1.5mm & 2mm larger than the drawings in LSWR Locomotives by Bradley suggest they should be, the height difference seems to have been achieved by increasing the distance between the top of the axle spring and the bottom of the tender sides

I'm considering reducing the height & width  of some of my tenders with a possible similar reduction in locomotive size, I'm not sure if modifying an existing tender body or building a new one from scratch would be the best way. I would be grateful if you could please give some more details about how you went about doing this?

Richard
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 18, 2015, 11:31:40 am
I've used UM drives under hacked Worsley Works etched N/S and Langley white metal bodies, the etched bodies and probably scratch brass don't pull quite as well, less adhesion weight, white metal no problem, Ive also used one under a white metal BHE N15 tender -- with an extra pair of wheels.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ohlavache on July 05, 2015, 07:31:30 pm
I've just discovered this topic.
Do you know when this Dean Goods could be available ?  :drool:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: PGN on August 14, 2015, 09:59:55 am
I've just discovered this topic.
Do you know when this Dean Goods could be available ?  :drool:

I spoke to Colin earlier this month, and he says it will be available in September.

Tried to persuade him to think about that LYR class 27 0-6-0, too ...
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on August 14, 2015, 10:20:43 am
Tried to persuade him to think about that LYR class 27 0-6-0, too ...
Definitely in keeping with things like the Adams 0395 in shape and mechanism, so seems a good proposal.

Since Colin H. doesn't like outside valve gear, I've always wondered if 'Turbomotive' wouldn't be a interesting choice.

Or what about GT3!?

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on August 14, 2015, 10:31:10 am
My plea has been for a D34 "Glen".

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: port perran on August 14, 2015, 10:34:03 am
I'm looking forward to a Dean Goods (especially as it's a UM model).
Does Colin take advance orders does anyone know ?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on August 14, 2015, 10:39:59 am
I'm looking forward to a Dean Goods (especially as it's a UM model).
Does Colin take advance orders does anyone know ?

I don't think so but to be honest I have never tried.

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on August 14, 2015, 12:12:26 pm
My plea has been for a D34 "Glen".

Roy

I second, third and fourth that!  I have "converted" a BHE round boilered Claude into a passable resemblance, but to have the real thing would be nice - esp as I never found one of the Graham Hughes kits.

Incidentally I turned a belpair Claude kit into a passable Director - but then Colin produced his own, and I recently purchased a non running Gem kit on Ebay.  30 mins work and it is now fine.  It has superb lining which I could not do.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: PGN on August 15, 2015, 10:24:34 am
Did Graham Hughes do a "Glen" kit, then?? I don't think I've got that in my table of pre-grouping locomotives ...

Now, if you want to get a Glen out of Colin Heard, you're going to have to address his perception that "Scottish locomotives dont' sell very well". For ages he's been saying that by FAR the slowest-selling locomotive he ever made was the J38 ... but I notice that it's back on his list.

So perhaps the most useful thing you can do, if you want a Glen, is to persuade as many people as you can to go and buy a J38 ("it's been out of his list for EVER so long ... if you don't get one of this batch before they sell out, it might be ever such a long wait before the next ones become available ..." You know the form!)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on August 23, 2015, 10:43:24 am
Did Graham Hughes do a "Glen" kit, then?? I don't think I've got that in my table of pre-grouping locomotives ...

Now, if you want to get a Glen out of Colin Heard, you're going to have to address his perception that "Scottish locomotives dont' sell very well". For ages he's been saying that by FAR the slowest-selling locomotive he ever made was the J38 ... but I notice that it's back on his list.

So perhaps the most useful thing you can do, if you want a Glen, is to persuade as many people as you can to go and buy a J38 ("it's been out of his list for EVER so long ... if you don't get one of this batch before they sell out, it might be ever such a long wait before the next ones become available ..." You know the form!)

I have agonised over a J38 for a while. They were though I think only common at the North end of the Waverley Route.

My other issue is ease of DCC "ing" without major surgery...

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on August 23, 2015, 10:56:09 am
I'm looking forward to a Dean Goods (especially as it's a UM model).
Does Colin take advance orders does anyone know ?

Yes. Email him (http://colin.h@manx.net).

If Colin has managed to build the motor into a Dean Goods, how difficult would a Midland Spinner be? That would be a fantastic model, surely?

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Les1952 on September 27, 2015, 12:59:37 am
Did Graham Hughes do a "Glen" kit, then?? I don't think I've got that in my table of pre-grouping locomotives ...

Now, if you want to get a Glen out of Colin Heard, you're going to have to address his perception that "Scottish locomotives dont' sell very well". For ages he's been saying that by FAR the slowest-selling locomotive he ever made was the J38 ... but I notice that it's back on his list.

So perhaps the most useful thing you can do, if you want a Glen, is to persuade as many people as you can to go and buy a J38 ("it's been out of his list for EVER so long ... if you don't get one of this batch before they sell out, it might be ever such a long wait before the next ones become available ..." You know the form!)

I have agonised over a J38 for a while. They were though I think only common at the North end of the Waverley Route.

My other issue is ease of DCC "ing" without major surgery...

Roy

I did the most recent of my J27s myself.  Chipping the tender was the easy part, getting the chipped mechanism back into the loco was harder.

First I wore out three diamond tipped burrs trying to ream out the inside of the tender to make the extra millimetre of clearance I needed to get the chip inside.  Then  I toyed with the idea of asking Douglas at Wickness Models what he uses to mill out the tender.  THEN I thought laterally..

I took a power drill and a sharp drill bit to the front of the tender and drilled out a slot wide and deep enough for the decoder to pass through.  If I'd thought on I'd have used a smaller hole and passed the wires through the other way- and done it before wiring up the tender!   The decoder now projects through into the cab with half a driver and half a fireman showing through the side windows above it.  I added a storm sheet from thin black paper to hide the view from above. 

To see the decoder you have to know it is there.  No worse looking than Dapol drive shafts, cab-roof speakers or lengths of tubing passing the other way to tenders with chips inside.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on September 27, 2015, 09:04:23 am
A photo of your J27 would be good even though I'm not a DCC man myself I'm  sure lots of members would love to see your work.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on September 27, 2015, 11:12:33 am
A photo of your J27 would be good even though I'm not a DCC man myself I'm  sure lots of members would love to see your work.
Bob

Me for one. It is the J38 I would like to chip so may have a bit more room in the LNER Group Standard tender to mill out space but to have a "plan B" (and a solution I probably wouldn't have thought of) would be great.

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Les1952 on September 28, 2015, 01:45:50 am
Best I can do at short notice.  Layout is currently in process of being packed up for a short-notice show- Kirkby in Ashfield Oct 10-11, then on to the clubroom to be photographed by Andy York.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/16/thumb_29776.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=29776)

If you blow it to higher magnification you can see the chip in the cab.  This was before the half-driver was added, or more actually between removing him from the wrong side of the cab and putting him back on the right side!  The storm sheet has also lifted a little- it is less well behaved on this one than on the J25 I did earlier.  I'd also caught the tender rails without noticing until I picked the loco up after photographing.

I did mention I'm medically ham-fisted?

Les
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: elmo on October 02, 2015, 03:02:43 pm
My Dean Goods arrived yesterday. Excellent runner at all speeds. looking forwarding to detailing it.

Elmo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Geoff on October 02, 2015, 03:26:07 pm
Does anyone have an up to date list of there Loco's? any chance you could take a picture and post.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Toneeze on October 02, 2015, 04:50:23 pm
 :hellosign: Goeff , There is a price list in the N gauge mag. Price ranges from £69.+ P+P (£3. ) to £82 +P+P for the POW 4-6-0 .BARGAIN
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Arrachogaidh on October 02, 2015, 05:39:39 pm
I'd be looking for either of the following......

57261  Ex Caledonian "Jumbo"
Grouping : London Midland & Scottish Railway
Configuration : 0-6-0
Common Name : Standard Goods
Designer : Drummond D
Introduced 1883. D Drummond Caledonian "Standard Goods" Class.
(a) Additions by Lambie and McIntosh, rebuilt with LMS boiler.
102 locos were fitted with Westinghouse brakes for passenger train working.
Weight:
Loco 41 tons 6 cwt Driving Wheel: 5' 0"
42 tons 4 cwt (a) Boil Press: 180lb/sq in NS
Cylinders: Two Valve Gear: Stephenson (slide valves)
18" x 26" (inside) TE: 21,480 lb

65310 ex LNER    J36

Grouping : London & North Eastern Railway
Configuration : 0-6-0
Common Name :
Designer : Holmes (Reid/Ch
Introduced 1888. Holmes NBR design. Later rebuilt by Reid & Chalmers.
(a) Cut-down cab and boiler fittings for use on Gartsherrie branch.
Some named locos were unnamed at Nationalisation and for various periods
in BR days.
Weight:
Loco 41 tons 19 cwt Driving Wheel: 5' 0"
Tend 33 tons 9 cwt Boil Press: 165lb/sq in NS
Cylinders: Valve Gear: Stephenson (slide valves)
Two 18?" x 26" (inside) TE: 19,690 lb


56323 Ex Caledonian McIntosh

Grouping : London Midland & Scottish Railway
Configuration : 0-6-0T
Common Name :
Designer : McIntosh
Introduced 1896. McIntosh Caledonian "29" and "782" Classes.
(a) Originally fitted with condensing apparatus.
Weight:
Loco 49 tons 15 cwt Driving Wheel: 4' 6"
Boil Press: 160lb/sq in NS
Cylinders: Two Valve Gear: Stephenson (slide valves)
18" x 26" (inside) TE: 21,215 lb

54476 Ex Caledonian

Grouping : London Midland & Scottish Railway
Configuration : 4-4-0
Common Name :
Designer : Pickergill
Introduced 1916. Pickersgill Caledonian "713" and "918" Classes.
Weight: Loco 61 tons 5 cwt Driving Wheel: 6' 6"
Boil Press: 180lb/sq in Su
Cylinders: Two Valve Gear: Stephenson (piston valves)
20" x 26" (inside) TE: 20,400 lb

 :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 07, 2016, 01:03:05 pm
Just off the phone with Colin, next will be another GWR offering, due autumn. As though there aren't enough GWR prototypes on the market already! There ain't many other inside cylinder GWR types, Collet 0-6-0 (already done by Peco) and the Dukedogs, unless he goes further back to outside frames.

I wanna SR Q class or any of the SR 4-4-0s preferably Ex LSWR classes like K10, L11, S11, L12, D15, I'd have to invoke Rule 1 for any of the ex SECR e.g. D, D1, E, E1, L, or L1
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on July 07, 2016, 01:16:45 pm
Just off the phone with Colin, next will be another GWR offering, due autumn.

Fantastic news Colin; thanks for sharing! Hope it's something 4-4-0. A 'City' or 'Dukedog' would be great. But we shall see what we shall see...

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: port perran on July 07, 2016, 02:08:08 pm
A 4-4-0 would be very nice indeed.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on July 07, 2016, 02:50:21 pm
Peco  have a good business selling track, kits and now 009. So far as I am can work out there are two chances Peco re-running the 2251 - slim and non.

I don't have a Dean Goods because it doesn't fit my late 50s early 60s scene. If a 2251 is produced by Union Mills I will almost certainly buy one. I'm pretty sure all the GW 4-4-0s had gone by the mid 50s, certainly from the South West so I wouldn't buy one of those.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: N-Gauge-US on July 07, 2016, 03:00:40 pm
Thanks for the tip, Mike! I thought he might do another GWR loco after the Dean Goods proved so popular. My money is on the Dukedogs, which I would be very tempted by, admittedly.

Of course I would love him to do an exLBSCR loco, but I'll take what I can get :)

Philip
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: mr bachmann on July 07, 2016, 03:19:44 pm
just think if its a Dean goods , you Western lot can run ex LNER J25's as the MOD sent the dean locos to France during the war , thus leaving the GWR without power so they sent the J25's to help out .... (didn't 2 panniers end up in the Thurso/Wick area ?)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on July 07, 2016, 03:25:14 pm
(didn't 2 panniers end up in the Thurso/Wick area ?)

They did indeed. Here is 1649 at Dingwall.

(http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/56/57/2565738_7afe29d5.jpg)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Les1952 on July 07, 2016, 04:09:54 pm
just think if its a Dean goods , you Western lot can run ex LNER J25's as the MOD sent the dean locos to France during the war , thus leaving the GWR without power so they sent the J25's to help out .... (didn't 2 panniers end up in the Thurso/Wick area ?)

One of the J25s (off the top of my head no.2000) was the only NER 0-6-0 ever to enter a London terminal after it was allocated to Old Oak Common and used on ecs duties......

Les
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: trkilliman on July 07, 2016, 06:18:06 pm
I have never owned a U.M loco, come to think of it not sure I have ever seen one. From what I understand they lack the detail of loco's from the big two manufacturers, but are very reliable with great hauling power. I could be tempted to give U.M. a try with a Dukedog or similar.

How have people found the Dean Goods?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on July 07, 2016, 06:30:04 pm
I have never owned a U.M loco, come to think of it not sure I have ever seen one. From what I understand they lack the detail of loco's from the big two manufacturers, but are very reliable with great hauling power.

Spot on. Colin does one thing, but does it very well: simple designs with plenty of space for big, reliable motor. No circuit boards to go wrong surely helps in the reliability stakes, and the coarsely detailed steel metal bodywork gives them plenty of weight (and therefore adhesion). But you're absolutely right that you don't get the details that plastic fixtures and fittings allows, and the simple mechanism limits the models to those with space enough for a large motor.

I think any modeller would enjoy having one or two, simply as fun toy trains. Others have done some outstanding work detailing them with brass handrails and the like, but that's a whole other kettle of fish...

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 07, 2016, 06:36:00 pm
I have never owned a U.M loco, come to think of it not sure I have ever seen one. From what I understand they lack the detail of loco's from the big two manufacturers, but are very reliable with great hauling power. I could be tempted to give U.M. a try with a Dukedog or similar.

How have people found the Dean Goods?

Dean Goods with DCC fitted by Wickness.... A1
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on July 07, 2016, 07:21:41 pm
City of Truro could be used on railways from early last century to present day so could have a wide appeal

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on July 07, 2016, 07:45:49 pm
Whatever GWR loco it will be I am going through my impulse bought stock so I can save enough for at least two, I'm already trying to find the boxes for my 4 pair of intermodal flats and Asda containers  which will be on sales or £25 each  at the AGM at Corsham  ,maybe some Locos as well not sure what to sell ,there are quite a few that don't ever see the light of day ,so might as well let someone else have the pleasure and use of them.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 07, 2016, 08:33:41 pm
The body is cast White metal not steel. A lot easier to hack than steel would be! Just don't get a normal temperature soldering iron near it - it will melt.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ohlavache on July 09, 2016, 11:47:00 am
Thanks for the tip, Mike! I thought he might do another GWR loco after the Dean Goods proved so popular. My money is on the Dukedogs, which I would be very tempted by, admittedly.

A Dukedog would be fantastic !
Let's cross fingers.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on July 09, 2016, 12:13:59 pm
Thanks for the tip, Mike! I thought he might do another GWR loco after the Dean Goods proved so popular. My money is on the Dukedogs, which I would be very tempted by, admittedly.

A Dukedog would be fantastic !
Let's cross fingers.

Nah. Outside frame would require a new chassis. Also very limited sphere of operation and all gone by 1960.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on July 09, 2016, 12:21:24 pm
Last time I spoke to Colin he almost ruled out City of Truro because of the outside frames ,but you never know maybe he was just trying to put me off the scent . I would be over the moon if he did do something along those lines and my stock box would take a hit to enable me to get one or two .I will have something on the stand next Saturday not sure what yet but the Asda wagons have got to go at £25 for each pair , although can negotiate on the price if anyone wants all 4 pair
If any one is interested PM me and I will reserve them for you.First come first served .
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on July 09, 2016, 12:33:59 pm
I'm pretty sure all the GW 4-4-0s had gone by the mid 50s, certainly from the South West so I wouldn't buy one of those.

Largely irrelevant. GWR locos almost sell themselves, and something as "cute" as a 4-4-0 would fly off the shelves.

It is interesting that despite the persistent comments about how the hobby "needs" Scottish or northeastern locos, the best-selling locos seem to be from the supposedly already well-served GWR. Do GWR modellers simply keep their heads down compared to the more vociferous modellers of other regions?  :confused2:

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 09, 2016, 12:49:32 pm
It reminds me of my fathers advice about women, "there are those you have fun with and there are those you marry and they are not the same" :D

We all marry GWR :)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Jollybob on July 09, 2016, 01:43:44 pm
A GWR 4-4-0 would be great. There are plenty of large GWR locomotives and a good selection of smaller ones, ideal for branchlines but there are very few intermediate tender locomotives for the GWR.
What we need is more pregrouping locomotives like GWR 4-4-0s, LBSCR 2-6-0s, NB 4-4-2s, HR 4-4-0, MSWJR 2-4-0, etc.... The list could go on forever.
I wouldn't mind seeing a few industrial locomotives as well.

Blob. 🙂
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Byegad on July 09, 2016, 02:47:52 pm
+1 for Industrial locos. I'd love an LNER 4-4-2 Atlantic, any of the nine possible classes would be ideal.
I live in hope. But not expectation.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 09, 2016, 04:13:13 pm
Thing to remember with UM is they  don't do outside cylinders let alone valve gear, and tenders are 6 wheel with outside springs and axle boxes, so no Drummond watercarts.

I also can't think of any UM models of prototypes that never made it into BR days, that would limit the potential market. There are still quite a number of inside cylinder 4-4-0s and 0-6-0s still to be done, my thoughts are obviously mainly on locos from south of the Thames, ex SECR and LBSC classes not been touched yet and some of the ex LSWR that ran with 6 wheel tenders quite a few from ex Scottish companies too. I'd love an Adams A12 0-4-2 Jubilee, total of 90 made  from 1880/90s & some lasted to 1948.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: trkilliman on July 09, 2016, 06:41:32 pm
U.M. make models that are not considered/made by the the big two, they therefore cater for a specific market. I think the GWR/W.R. is modelled more than other regions. If I am correct it therefore follows that GWR/W.R. locos will have a greater market. If his recent GWR introduction has sold really well this may influence future models. We hear they are reliable,and reliability is something that seems to get discussed on here with regularity. Maybe there is a happy medium whereby U.M. locos could incorporate a bit more detail, whilst retaining their reliability. As I said previously I have never owned a U.M. model but I'm certainly warming to the idea
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: port perran on July 09, 2016, 07:02:42 pm
U.M. make models that are not considered/made by the the big two, they therefore cater for a specific market. I think the GWR/W.R. is modelled more than other regions. If I am correct it therefore follows that GWR/W.R. locos will have a greater market. If his recent GWR introduction has sold really well this may influence future models. We hear they are reliable,and reliability is something that seems to get discussed on here with regularity. Maybe there is a happy medium whereby U.M. locos could incorporate a bit more detail, whilst retaining their reliability. As I said previously I have never owned a U.M. model but I'm certainly warming to the idea
I've got three and am very pleased with them all.
One thing I'd say is that I can handle them with confidence without fear of breaking them . That's a big plus for a ham fisted oaf like me!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 09, 2016, 07:43:05 pm
If you look at the range of steam locos available from Dapol and Farish, there are 3 0-6-0s and 1 4-4-0 tender locos, everything else is 4-6-0 or larger or tank locos, Farish stopped making the 4P which was at that time the only 4-4-0 from the "big 2"; UM currently have 12 0-6-0 tender locos in stock, four 4-4-0s, an 0-8-0 and 2 4-6-0s, most available in BR or grouping liveries.

Prior to nationalisation the great majority of steam tender locos in UK were 0-6-0s or 4-4-0s, many of them continued in service for some years after nationalisation; one could not accurately depict most branch lines and local services without using  UM tender locos and tank locos from Farish and Dapol.

At Grouping in 1923, the SR inherited 2,281 locos from pregrouping companies, of these only 73 were 4-6-0s, but 606 4-4-0s and 340 0-6-0s and a total of 1042 tanks, mostly 0-4-4-T and 0-6-0T, by the start of WW2 still under 200 4-6-0s and  over 200 4-4-0s and over 250 0-6-0s; during those years there was extensive electrification so not so many new steam locos compared to other grouping companies.

Farish and Dapol follow the what we might call tradition of model railway manufacturers in only producing the "prestige" locos, or cheapish tank locos, very little in between, it's left to kit makers mainly to fill the gaps, but not everyone is into kit building we have UM to thank in N gauge for the work horses that are beneath the dignity of Farish and Dapol.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: PLD on July 09, 2016, 11:53:00 pm
IIRC, the largest pre-grouping company without a single representative loco ready to run from any manufacturer of the Lancashire and Yorkshire. With several classes of fairly simple 0-6-0, 0-8-0 and 4-6-0 tender locos (mostly lasting in to the 1950s) you would think they would be ideal subjects for UM.

In terms of steam loco types the biggest gap left is for medium size tanks. We have numerous smaller/shunting 0-6-0T and several choices of large 2-6-2T & 2-6-4Ts but not one 0-6-2T or 4-4-2T or 2-4-2T
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Byegad on July 10, 2016, 10:21:25 am
While I had noticed UMs love of inside cylinder locos, I rather hope they get a little more ambitious and try an outside cylinder loco or two! As to tenders there are surely some Atlantics with a suitable tender for the drive.

I love UMs range of locos and have several (London) North Eastern specific models from them already. I totally agree they are filling a void left open by GF and Dapol, thank goodness!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Tonye on July 10, 2016, 10:41:27 am
 :hellosign: Colin Heard has said that he wouldn`t produce out sided cylinder loco`s due to cost, It`s a shame but he is only a very tiny manufacturer.  :D 
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: trkilliman on July 10, 2016, 11:19:43 am
:hellosign: Colin Heard has said that he wouldn`t produce out sided cylinder loco`s due to cost, It`s a shame but he is only a very tiny manufacturer.  :D

Yes I understand he is a small manufacturer. He may wish to stay exactly that, with his locos having a reputation for reliability, something we all wish for.  Producing locos with outside cylinders could well result in a ? loss of reliability, with more to go wrong. Only he will know which direction he wants to head in. It would be nice though if he decides to venture further, with perhaps a slight expansion of his business and products.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Thorpe Parva on July 10, 2016, 11:23:28 am
:hellosign: Colin Heard has said that he wouldn`t produce out sided cylinder loco`s due to cost, It`s a shame but he is only a very tiny manufacturer.  :D

I recently purchased a UM LMS 2P 4-4-0. I did wonder if Colin could use this as the basis for developing an LMS Compound which is a very similar loco and which has a simple outside cylinder.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on July 10, 2016, 11:28:27 am
Yes I understand he is a small manufacturer. He may wish to stay exactly that, with his locos having a reputation for reliability, something we all wish for.  Producing locos with outside cylinders could well result in a ? loss of reliability, with more to go wrong. Only he will know which direction he wants to head in. It would be nice though if he decides to venture further, with perhaps a slight expansion of his business and products.

I think this is a fantastic question. Suppose he chose something like a GWR 'Saint' class with the relatively straightforward Stephenson valve gear. That would be a lot more "bits" to manufacturer and get working, even though it's a lot simpler than the very fiddly Walschaerts valve gear on things like BR standards.

I reckon that Colin would find it extremely difficult to keep costs down while maintaining his very high reputation for reliability.

Personally, I'd much rather Union Mills focused on older locomotive designs, and perhaps looked into smaller but still reliable motors that can fit into tenders, so that they could ultimately produce things like Midland 'Spinners' and other turn-of-the-century designs that the "big two" manufacturers wouldn't touch with a barge-pole.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 10, 2016, 11:29:43 am
The Farish Class 08 showed the way on outside frames and push fit cranks, so a City or a Dukedog is relatively easy.

Frankly either would fly off the shelves.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on July 10, 2016, 12:26:01 pm
Interesting comments here.

Firstly re: outside cylinders, in my conversations with Colin H he has certainly never discounted it out of hand and from a technical point of view it is do-able. The same may be true of an outside framed prototype although frankly I would be surprised if he did anything of either kind. My gut feeling is a 2251 with a more prototypically common tender.

As regards size, Colin has always been clear that he is happy doing things the way he does with production at the kind of level it is, so I think one technically simple loco a year is what we will continue to see until Colin decides to stop.

And yes, I agree we are very fortunate that he fills the voids in production that others leave. In spite of the lack of fine detail alongside others' models and mechanical simplicity they can be super detailed and DCC'd to produce some very passable models.

In some respects we are better off than our 00 friends thanks to Colin H - they don't have a J38. D20, Cauliflower, Prince of Wales or Fowler 7F RTR and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head - in N we do!

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Irish Padre on July 10, 2016, 12:58:16 pm
IIRC, the largest pre-grouping company without a single representative loco ready to run from any manufacturer of the Lancashire and Yorkshire. With several classes of fairly simple 0-6-0, 0-8-0 and 4-6-0 tender locos (mostly lasting in to the 1950s) you would think they would be ideal subjects for UM.

In terms of steam loco types the biggest gap left is for medium size tanks. We have numerous smaller/shunting 0-6-0T and several choices of large 2-6-2T & 2-6-4Ts but not one 0-6-2T or 4-4-2T or 2-4-2T

Yes, one of these would be nice.....https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNWR_Precursor_Tank_Class

But not really a mass market thing !
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 10, 2016, 01:56:00 pm
Tank locos would seem to be another thing he does not do; presume he chooses to tie himself to the tender mechanism. That could also be part of the reason for no valve gear, that would add extra friction, at least the inside cylindered 4-4-0, 4-6-0 and 0-6-0 chassis are free running.

The more or less "standard" tender drive must also contribute to his low costs - no design overheads, I only wish he'd use spoked wheels for the tender.

All things considered I'd say he does a very good job, long may he reign.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Jollybob on July 10, 2016, 04:47:23 pm
A Sharp Stewart 4-4-0 would perhaps be a good model.
A lot of pregrouping companies had Sharp Steward 4-4-0s, many sharing the same basic appearance.
If your wanted to change anything on it then that is where companies like Nbrass come into frame. 

So 6 wheel tender loco, inside cylinders, 4-4-0 and yes even would have been found on the GWR after the grouping. Ticks most of the boxes for people. Some must have sneaked into nationalisation?

Blob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 10, 2016, 05:07:41 pm
Come to think of it most if not all the prototypes for UM models made it into BR livery. That will catch a much wider customer base. Have we ever done a survey of members era of interest in broad terms, say pre grouping, grouping, WW2 and BR.

I would guess that the majority of steam layouts model BR up to end of steam. I do wonder though how many more would model grouping if there was more suitable stock.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on July 10, 2016, 05:19:09 pm
Come to think of it most if not all the prototypes for UM models made it into BR livery.
True, but sometimes "only just". The LNWR 'Prince of Wales' class for example were all gone by 1949! I've no idea how many of the Sharp Stewart 4-4-0s survived into BR days, though the Cambrian Railways ones certainly survived a while under GWR auspices. Not sure for how long though.

I would guess that the majority of steam layouts model BR up to end of steam.
So the manufacturers tell us, and I'm sure Colin bears that in mind. He's been pretty honest over the years about which locos sell well and which sit on the shelves.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on July 10, 2016, 07:22:37 pm
All manufacturers make locos in liveries to suit various periods. They will know the popularity of periods for sales. They can only invest in a new model if they think it will sell. I expect Bachmann choose which GF models to make based on sales of the oo version.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Rabs on July 11, 2016, 04:12:40 pm
Given the hints that the next one will also be GWR I've got my fingers crossed for a Dean Single.  I know it's probably too niche but, apart from 2251, I can't think of any other GWR locos of significance that don't have outside valve gear and aren't currently available.

The, now ancient, Triang/Hornby OO version was fairly popular I think, so perhaps I'm not completely hoping in vain.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 11, 2016, 04:50:14 pm
I'm guessing Dukedog, with 2251 as second guess.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on July 12, 2016, 12:11:08 am
On the basis we can expect inside cylinder tender engines with 6 wheel tenders, the list is near endless.  How about ex LNWR Precursor/George V, The Midland 3P 440, the Deeley 999, J36, J37, Caley and Lankey 060s in varied forms, then to go "southern" L, L1, D1, C.   And that is just a handful of locos I might consider.  Plenty of other doable 060s, 440s.  Only the first 3 did not or barely survived to BR.  How many would have a market is another matter.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on July 12, 2016, 08:55:04 am
We are all just guessing or putting forward our own wish lists ,in fact we are getting away from the original idea from Colin saying it will possibly be another GWR loco and he did say that an outside framed loco was unlikely  so I think that would rule out City of Truro and Dukedogs but as I said he might have told me that to put me of the scent, I hope he did .City of Truro would be a very welcombe addition to my Preserved Railway ,I'm definately going to thin out my stock in readiness for the next GWR loco from him whatever it is . However I might sell some of my other U M Models but Its a job to let thing go, I hate parting with stuff that I have cherished and enjoyed for a long while.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: CarriageShed on July 12, 2016, 04:14:46 pm
I wish Colin would have a stab at producing an 8-wheeled water cart tender. He's done a great job with a new tender design for the Dean Goods, so it's not beyond him, other than possible difficulties with adding the extra wheel set. Like Mike, I could suggest a raft of SR pre-Grouping types with inside cylinders that would be easy subjects for the next-release-after-the-next-GWR-one.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: gc4946 on July 12, 2016, 04:40:32 pm
We are all just guessing or putting forward our own wish lists ,in fact we are getting away from the original idea from Colin saying it will possibly be another GWR loco and he did say that an outside framed loco was unlikely  so I think that would rule out City of Truro and Dukedogs but as I said he might have told me that to put me of the scent, I hope he did .City of Truro would be a very welcombe addition to my Preserved Railway ,I'm definately going to thin out my stock in readiness for the next GWR loco from him whatever it is . However I might sell some of my other U M Models but Its a job to let thing go, I hate parting with stuff that I have cherished and enjoyed for a long while.
Bob


There's not too many prototype inside-cylinder, inside frame GWR (or absorbed company) tender locos which lasted into BR days.

Apart from the Dean Goods and 2251 classes ...

The ex-Cambrian Railways 0-6-0s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_Railways_Jones_Class_89_0-6-0 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_Railways_Jones_Class_89_0-6-0)
the last withdrawn by 1954

The ex-Midland & South Western Junction Railways 2-4-0s (GWR 1334-1336)
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4559895 (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4559895)
the last withdrawn by 1954

Both classes had GWR boilers and other fittings added post-1923.

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on July 12, 2016, 05:17:48 pm
As he has  done the Dean Goods it will more than likely the 2251 which is very similar in appearance .
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: oreamnos on July 12, 2016, 05:21:53 pm
I'm sure I've posted my wish before, but here it is again: a 4-2-2

Either Caledonian #123 or a Midland 115 "Spinner."  Neither did service for BR but both types ran in preservation.  #123 into the 1960s, and the surviving 115 ran in the late 1970s.

Both are tender locos with inside valve gear, like all other UM locos.

Matt

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on July 18, 2016, 09:40:07 am
The reason for the popularity of GW models can be seen on the NGF map of layout location.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1r7OJUJvwF0jUESmQEo7ix6ovU-o (https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1r7OJUJvwF0jUESmQEo7ix6ovU-o)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 18, 2016, 10:26:06 am
Conversely my contention is that there are so many GWR/BR(W) layouts because there is such a wide selection of stock compared to the other grouping companies, almost an inverse catch 22. At least that was the position until a few years after Bachman took over Farish and Dapol and UM started N gauge.

One possible reason is that GWR standardised their stock far more than any of the other grouping companies.

You have at least 4 GWR 4-6-0s RTR, out of maybe 6 or 7 classes, SR has none RTR out of 4 (or 9 if you include ex LSWR) LMS and LNER are slightly better served in more recent years, but LMS for years had only the black 5, it was also comparatively recently that there were any BR4-6-0s.

Apart from 4-6-0s the story is much the same, until Dapol came on the scene there was no SR, LMS or LNER tank loco (I don't count the various liveried Farish "general purpose tanks and the Jinty was a fairly late arrival on the pre Bachman scene), until Union Mills there were no SR 0-6-0s nor 4-4-0, (similar story for LNER and LMS except for the Farish 4F and 4P)

SO how many chose GWR because that was the largest selection of readily available RTR stock? Or to put it another way if there had been a good selection of SR instead of GWR would we have seen loads of SR branch lines modelled.

A branch line terminus to fiddle was probably the preferred layout due to space and comparative ease of construction and with a couple of panniers and/or prairies could be run fairly convincingly with maybe the occasional Hall
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on July 18, 2016, 11:41:56 am
Conversely my contention is that there are so many GWR/BR(W) layouts because there is such a wide selection of stock compared to the other grouping companies, almost an inverse catch 22.
Undeniably true, at least up to a point. But there is a specialness to the BR(W) scene, with the very popular diesel hydraulics running alongside ex-GWR locos, whereas other BR regions aren't quite so distinctive. Of course they do have their own flavour, the Scottish and Southern especially. Not denying that for a second.

One possible reason is that GWR standardised their stock far more than any of the other grouping companies.
That could be a plus so far as manufacturers are concerned, but quite how far standard boilers matter when we're talking about injection moulding is hard to say.

So how many chose GWR because that was the largest selection of readily available RTR stock? ... A branch line terminus to fiddle was probably the preferred layout due to space and comparative ease of construction and with a couple of panniers and/or prairies could be run fairly convincingly with maybe the occasional Hall
Agreed, and in some part this has to be the high level of documentation available to modellers. There are so many books about GWR and BR(W) lines, especially branchlines, that coming up with Ashburton or Hemyock-type plans isn't that difficult.

I think there's a strong element of nostalgia too, and the ex-GWR lines are strongly associated with summer holidays to Cornwall, Devon, Dorset and Somerset. Many people will have memories of these, and there are still any number of reasons why people holiday in that particular part of the UK.

While there should be nostalgia for the hard working, more industrial branchlines of the Northwest and Northeast, there just isn't. Discuss!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on July 18, 2016, 12:22:33 pm
Interesting points Nemo. For me it is the West Country location that is important more than the availability os stock. And yes it is due to a strong element of nostalgia.
If you go back to the days of Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang I don't think there was a GW bias until they found that GW sold best.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 18, 2016, 12:30:48 pm
I have copies of The Railway Modeler dating back to 1950 and there is a definite bias to GWR and SR steam, although all regions get a descent coverage.

Seems to be associated with geography and where people retired to and went on holidays in these days.  I also think it has something to do with the balance of what was preserved in 1:1 scale in the 1950s and 60s.

PECO also seems to have been a very big influencer
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: railsquid on July 18, 2016, 12:36:00 pm
While there should be nostalgia for the hard working, more industrial branchlines of the Northwest and Northeast, there just isn't. Discuss!

Or even the GWR mainline through the heart of Birmingham and the Black Country...

Speaking entirely personally, while bucolic branchlines are nice to look at, they don't appeal to me as something I'd want to model. Now if it's got lots of brick-built viaducts and general urban-industrial grot...

Not entirely dissimilar thread over at the other place: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112533-the-omnipresent-western-region/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112533-the-omnipresent-western-region/)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on July 18, 2016, 02:46:50 pm
We seem to have gone off topic here. Feels like we need a new topic to discuss the natural superiority of the GWR! Only fitting for the 175 year celebration of Swindon.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 18, 2016, 02:54:08 pm
to discuss the natural superiority of the GWR!

What to discuss, its just a fact of life  :D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on July 18, 2016, 02:56:38 pm
We seem to have gone off topic here. Feels like we need a new topic to discuss the natural superiority of the GWR! Only fitting for the 175 year celebration of Swindon.


While we're on (or is that off?) topic, there's an excellent article at the link below, "Avoiding the Clichť" by Mikkel Kjartan:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/nocliche.html (http://www.gwr.org.uk/nocliche.html)

Very much about the idea that the GWR had plenty of mining and heavy industry traffic, lots of suburban lines, and very much doesn't have to modelled as bucolic West Country branch lines! I think you could make the argument that in some ways it was a very modern railway, what with standardisation developed by the engineers on the one hand and an extremely effective PR machine on the other.

Cheers, NeMo

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: johnlambert on July 18, 2016, 04:54:07 pm
Conversely my contention is that there are so many GWR/BR(W) layouts because there is such a wide selection of stock compared to the other grouping companies, almost an inverse catch 22. At least that was the position until a few years after Bachman took over Farish and Dapol and UM started N gauge.


One of the reasons I chose a GW branch (but in Warwickshire, rather than the South West) was the availability of a broad range of GWR/BR(W) stock.  Not just locos but the Dapol coaches and 'Bubble car' DMUs.

If the R-T-R balance had been in favour of LMS instead, maybe I'd have built Kenliworth station rather than Claverdon.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ODRAILS on July 18, 2016, 06:11:05 pm
Getting back to the point of the thread :
As Union Mills make tender drive locos with just coupling rods - no outside cylinders I suggest:

GWR   2251 0-6-0 - some of which had the Churchward small tender which is already in production
SR      C2X   0-6-0 - (ex-Brighton)
SR      D15   4-4-0 - A big loco with 6'7" drivers, 10' coupled wheelbase and tender already in production
SR      L12    4-4-0 - ditto
SR      S11    4-4-0 - another big loco with 6'0 drivers, 10' coupled wheelbase and tender already in production
SR      L11    4-4-0 - with 5'7" drivers, 10' coupled wheelbase
SR      B4X   4-4-0 - (ex-Brighton) with 6'8 drivers, 10' coupled wheelbase
LNER  J11/3 0-6-0 The piston valve version with raised boiler - tender already in production
LNER  J37
All of the above lasted into BR days
Ian
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 18, 2016, 07:20:29 pm
Quote
Not entirely dissimilar thread over at the other place:

Thanks I just copied most of my earlier contribution there.

Quote
Getting back to the point of the thread :
As Union Mills make tender drive locos with just coupling rods - no outside cylinders I suggest:

You missed quite a few SR locos, what about the Q 0-6-0 of 1938 plus Ex SECR D,D1, E, E1, L, L1, ex LSWR K10, Adams A12 (Jubilee) 0-4-2 a couple of which passed to BR but never carried BR logo or numbers, scrapped by Nov1948.

Moving on to locos with valve gear:-
I'm sure that if I can hack passable Nelsons out of a Jubilee or Scot it shouldn't be difficult for Bachman or Dapol to do a proper job. They should also be able to produce an Arthur, then a couple of minor changes gets them an H15 and S15, mainly by substituting smaller wheels and an option for taper or parallel boiler. OK so they'd need to make an 8 wheel tender (4 versions Urie/Maunsell flared top, flush, the later (1937/8 ish) higher sided Nelson one and Drummond watercart, maybe they could buy in or license the Fleischmann 7161 drive for the watercart?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: EtchedPixels on July 18, 2016, 09:54:55 pm
One possible reason is that GWR standardised their stock far more than any of the other grouping companies.

That's really dubious. The GWR rarely managed to build more than about ten coaches to a diagram before changing it. Compared with LNER, LMS or SR coaching stock it's a nightmare!!



Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 18, 2016, 10:47:55 pm
Alan, I was referring to loco stock not coaching. I suspect that first thoughts when many a modeller is starting a layout would be which locos; it's only when we delve deeper into things that coaches start to be considered in more detail than when starting.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: CarriageShed on July 19, 2016, 05:57:06 pm
SR coaching stock is also a bit of a nightmare, especially when you get into the pre-Grouping stuff. It's rare that more than a hundred coaches of a particular diagram were ordered, and even then there could be minor differences. Having said that I'm really looking forward to the Gramodels LSWR offering when it appears.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: PLD on July 19, 2016, 06:12:47 pm
Alan, I was referring to loco stock not coaching. I suspect that first thoughts when many a modeller is starting a layout would be which locos; it's only when we delve deeper into things that coaches start to be considered in more detail than when starting.
Sadly true - far too many modellers are so loco-centric... They expect perfection in their locos and criticise a single rivet out of place, yet are happy to hang any old coaches or wagons behind it... Until fairly recently the only proper pre-nationalisation coaches available RTR were the Minitrix Gresleys - for everyone else it was the Farish generic 'Mainline' and 'Suburban' stock  :(


One possible reason is that GWR standardised their stock far more than any of the other grouping companies.
That's really dubious. The GWR rarely managed to build more than about ten coaches to a diagram before changing it. Compared with LNER, LMS or SR coaching stock it's a nightmare!!
There were a lot of small batches and one-offs among the more numerous types on the LNER stock as well, and even the supposedly standardised Stanier stock on the LMS ran to over 20 different variants on four different length under frames (ignoring 12 wheelers) and so far from Farish the only deviations from a 57ft length are the inspection saloon and Full Brake on 50ft chassis. We don't yet have the most common coach of the type - the 60ft Corridor Composite...
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: gc4946 on July 19, 2016, 07:27:51 pm
Possibilities for new locos complementing what's in their range, using available parts :

GWR - 2251 0-6-0
LNER - Ex-NER J21 0-6-0
          Ex-GCR B8 4-6-0 http://www.lner.info/locos/B/b8.php (http://www.lner.info/locos/B/b8.php)
          Ex-GCR B19 4-6-0 http://www.lner.info/locos/B/b2b19.php (http://www.lner.info/locos/B/b2b19.php)
SR - Ex-LSWR D15, L11, S11 4-4-0, Adams 0-4-2
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: gc4946 on July 19, 2016, 07:39:20 pm
Just also thought ...

Union Mills could enhance its "Premier Line" (LNWR) loco types:

George V class 4-4-0 work's started on a replica http://lnwrgeorgevtrust.org.uk/Class_02.html (http://lnwrgeorgevtrust.org.uk/Class_02.html)
Whale 19 inch Express Goods 4-6-0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNWR_19in_Express_Goods_Class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNWR_19in_Express_Goods_Class)

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on August 21, 2016, 07:44:07 pm
Has anyone spoken to Colin recently and is there any further information as to what the next loco will be?

I don't think he has actually given much away yet. He said probably another GW loco which I think narrows it down to the 2251, but I wonder if he is wrong footing us and plans something totally different?

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on August 22, 2016, 09:37:57 am
I'm really hoping it's another GWR loco as you say a 2251 would be nice .
I do have one of the rare Ayres models resin bodies on a Farish chassis but it is a bit high , I might try a diferent chassis under it one of these days there wasn't much of a choice when I got it ,it's a shame he never really went into business in a big way he had some exiting plans that never materialised.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on August 22, 2016, 09:45:54 am
A 2251 would be an interesting choice. Despite its oversized tender, the Peco model looks very nice and was available for several years. But examples on eBay frequently change hands for around £150 indicating that there is an appetite for this humble class.

Whilst UM may not match the finer detail of the Peco model, an accurate tender may make it more appealing to many modelers and it is likely to be significantly cheaper than the Peco ones were. I am sure Colin is aware of these facts and will bear them in mind when making a decision.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Octavian30 on August 26, 2016, 01:22:00 am
Would really love to see a 2-4-0 - the GER T26 (E4) would seem a good choice as it ran from the 90's through to the 50's so a choice of GER, LNER & BR
My personal wish for a 2-4-0 would be for Hardwicke but you know, I'm a Premier Line man at heart
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Arrachogaidh on August 26, 2016, 03:44:42 pm
Would like him to do a Caledonian Jumbo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: mr bachmann on August 26, 2016, 03:45:11 pm
a few mods to the tender drive and the Fell diesel mechanical loco could be modelled ?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on August 26, 2016, 03:58:57 pm
Mr Bachman ,I love unusual Locos and as I call my layout a preserved railway a Fell loco would really go down well , but I don't think that would sell well with other people  so I doubt Colin would make it ,I still hope the new loco will be a GWR loco a Collett goods would be nice to go with the Dean goods .
Off course we can all dream of City of Truro but as Colin has said outside frames may be a problem in N gauge.
We will just have to wait and see.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: martyn on August 26, 2016, 07:21:15 pm
Octavian30;
Much as I would like to see an ex GER T26/LNER E4, the current tender drives are far too big; even the 'Claud' one is overscale for a GER 3000/3500 gallon tender fitted to the D16/3s (though I have a second 'Claud' one for my B12).
But if an E4 did come to fruition, it also opens up an avenue to J15s and certain J17s...........
Martyn
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Octavian30 on August 27, 2016, 01:34:01 am
i don't really have a problem with over scale tenders as long as they look like they are supposed to, i.e. not a GWR tender on a LNER loco. But then my eyes are 58 years old and don;t see things as good as they once did!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Thorpe Parva on August 27, 2016, 10:36:58 am
How about GT3? A 4-6-0 with no valve gear, smooth loco body & simple 6 wheeled tender.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on August 27, 2016, 11:09:41 am
How about GT3? A 4-6-0 with no valve gear, smooth loco body & simple 6 wheeled tender.

That would be fun! Turbomotive would be another loco of this sort of design that could be relatively accessible to the Union Mills way of doing things.

But I suspect these one-off designs would have rather limited appeal, though Turbomotive at least did run for the best part of 18 years in LMS service. Union Mills seems to prefer to go with the smaller but long-lived 'Big Four' (or earlier) designs. Presumably those are the ones that appeal to Colin, and he's the guy who has to sit down and do the drawings before anything's built!

If the next design is a GWR one, another 0-6-0 seems most likely going by past form, even though I for one would definitely prefer a GWR 4-4-0 of some sort, a 'Dukedog' or similar.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on August 27, 2016, 02:19:52 pm
GT3 would be an interesting model .
Just a thought How Many  of our merry band would love one of these on our layouts.  Please post on here if you are interested..
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Jollybob on August 27, 2016, 05:35:08 pm
GT3 would be an interesting model .
Just a thought How Many  of our merry band would love one of these on our layouts.  Please post on here if you are interested..


GT3 would be a great model to see in N gauge. However the likelyhood of it ever being produced in a ready to run format is slim. I would be confident enough to build it if it came out as a kit though.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: harris466 on August 28, 2016, 11:01:42 am
the next new model in november will be a gwr dukedom
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on August 28, 2016, 11:10:10 am
A Dukedog?

Fantastic! Thanks for letting us know.

Cheers, NeMo

the next new model in november will be a gwr dukedom
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 28, 2016, 11:30:12 am
the next new model in november will be a gwr dukedom

Well that's Christmas taken care of, will probably get two. :D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on August 28, 2016, 12:29:39 pm
Oh well that's one I won't be buying. All gone by 1960 and pretty much only used on the Cambrian lines. Absolutely no use whatsoever for the South West in the early 60s.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on August 28, 2016, 12:52:28 pm
Oh well that's one I won't be buying. All gone by 1960 and pretty much only used on the Cambrian lines. Absolutely no use whatsoever for the South West in the early 60s.

True, but I'd argue it's actually an inspired choice.

The Welsh side of the GWR is underrepresented in the hobby. One or two obviously Welsh locos alongside the usual panniers and prairies could be very helpful for someone trying to model this aspect of the GWR or Western Region.

The 4-4-0 is the quintessential type of loco for the GWR between about 1880 and 1910, and with a bit of tweaking this model could be used as a basis for important 4-4-0 designs such as the 'Bulldogs' or 'Badmintons'. These locos are an obvious and crucial gap in the GWR roster if you're modelling the first couple decades of the 20th century.

Finally, there's a preserved 'Dukedog', unlike the situation with some of the other UM designs.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on August 28, 2016, 01:15:58 pm
Where did you hear or see that , harris466
. Has Colin advertised that yet if so  what Liveries  . That would be a great addition to my preserved railway. I will  ring  Colin and  I will place my order on Tuesday or Wednesday .
Bob.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: MinZaPint on August 29, 2016, 11:24:26 am
the next new model in november will be a gwr dukedom

Well if that proves to be correct bang goes my resolve not to buy any more locos  :'(
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: oreamnos on August 29, 2016, 07:12:02 pm
Interesting.  The only other outside framed RTR model I can think of offhand in N scale is the Farish 08 shunter

If it is a Dukedog then the outside frames of this class would be a first for Colin.  If he has mastered how to do the frames here then I imagine he has opened up a larger group of prototypes to offer in model form going forward.

This is one I am eager to see (Although I keep hoping he will do a 4-2-2!).

Matt
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: GrahamB on August 29, 2016, 07:41:06 pm
the next new model in november will be a gwr dukedom
Please please please please please please please please please please.
 :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: port perran on August 29, 2016, 07:48:28 pm
Hmmm.
Now, I might just be tempted.
It would have to be preserved by the Cornish Locomotive Preservation Group but that's ok (they already have a Dean Goods anyway).
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on August 29, 2016, 08:06:44 pm
the next new model in november will be a gwr dukedom

Hi Harris466

Before people on here get into too much of a lather, was this information direct from the Horse's mouth i.e. Colin Heard?

Fascinating choice if so. I'd be tempted by a BR Black one.

Kind Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: harris466 on August 29, 2016, 10:36:42 pm
yes - from the horses mouth hope i have not let the cat out of the bag
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on August 29, 2016, 10:43:31 pm
yes - from the horses mouth hope i have not let the cat out of the bag
Unless Colin asked you to post here then you might well have done.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: railsquid on August 29, 2016, 11:48:50 pm
As they say on Wikipedia,

Quote
citation needed

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: GrahamB on August 30, 2016, 08:50:53 am
I've just had an e-mail from Colin which reads;

"Dukedogs should be ready in November, price is £82 plus £3 post. Will be available in BR black and GW green."

Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!

 :beers: :D :claphappy:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on August 30, 2016, 09:01:06 am
Good that it's confirmed but it is of no use to my layouts.
 I'll keep my powder dry and my wallet full until the Farish Castle appears next year. If it had been a 2251 I would have put a cheque in the post.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on August 30, 2016, 09:30:06 am
Just been talking to Colin and ordered my Dukedogs one in GWR green and one in BR black the family can club together and buy them for me for Christmas , I was thinking of asking them to buy the new DC sound fitted Farish 108 but I think that these will be a much better choice and will last a lot longer
As already posted £85 each including postage , so two strong powerful G W R Locos for about the same price ,and they will fit in on my preserved railway .
November will soon be here and as Val and Glenn are going away for Christmas you know where I will be spending my Christmas days .

Down the shed of course.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ohlavache on August 30, 2016, 10:52:05 am
I've just had an e-mail from Colin which reads;

"Dukedogs should be ready in November, price is £82 plus £3 post. Will be available in BR black and GW green."

Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!

 :beers: :D :claphappy:

Wonderful news !
 :bounce:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: GrahamB on August 30, 2016, 11:05:34 am
Just been talking to Colin and ordered my Dukedogs one in GWR green and one in BR black the family can club together and buy them for me for Christmas , I was thinking of asking them to buy the new DC sound fitted Farish 108 but I think that these will be a much better choice and will last a lot longer
As already posted £85 each including postage , so two strong powerful G W R Locos for about the same price ,and they will fit in on my preserved railway .
November will soon be here and as Val and Glenn are going away for Christmas you know where I will be spending my Christmas days .

Down the shed of course.
Bob
Ordered mine as well. Southbridge is off to Broadstairs at the end of November. Here's hoping I will have it by then. It should cause a stir.

Merry Christmas Bob  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Zwilnik on August 30, 2016, 12:19:04 pm
Ok, that's me convinced. Always been tempted by a Union Mills loco but never quite got around to ordering one (mostly from being mainly a GWR modeller). With the Dean goods and now the Dukedog I've got no excuse, so ordered one of each :) (both in GWR)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on August 30, 2016, 01:05:22 pm
Colin just rang me back as I never told him which GWR loco I wanted he is doing three liveries G W R , GREAT WESTERN , and a BR black version I also joked with him and pre ordered a City of Truro and  couple of Collett 2251 Locos he then said not yet , but never say never,
So now waiting to see what comes first the Pendolino or the Dukedogs .
I know the Dukedogs will be November and fingers crossed the Pendolino will be around Christmas or before my birthday in March .
I am very lucky to have an understanding family who club together now ,it's much better than tons of socks ,handkerchiefs or deodorants and stuff that you allready have ,
I have finally taught them some sense ,buy something I want, although it does spoil the surprise ,but saves on wrapping paper.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 30, 2016, 01:19:27 pm
Colin just rang me back as I never told him which GWR loco I wanted he is doing three liveries G W R , GREAT WESTERN , and a BR black version I also joked with him and pre ordered a City of Truro and  couple of Collett 2251 Locos he then said not yet , but never say never,
So now waiting to see what comes first the Pendolino or the Dukedogs .
I know the Dukedogs will be November and fingers crossed the Pendolino will be around Christmas or before my birthday in March .
I am very lucky to have an understanding family who club together now ,it's much better than tons of socks ,handkerchiefs or deodorants and stuff that you allready have ,
I have finally taught them some sense ,buy something I want, although it does spoil the surprise ,but saves on wrapping paper.
Bob

My wife said "buy me something small valuable and frivolous". So I bought her a pannier tank.   :D

Anyway two dukedogs on order. 8)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: oreamnos on August 30, 2016, 04:57:04 pm
Good that it's confirmed but it is of no use to my layouts.
 I'll keep my powder dry and my wallet full until the Farish Castle appears next year. If it had been a 2251 I would have put a cheque in the post.

But a 2251 was already made by Peco.  It was hilariously expensive and IMHO not worth the price (I have one so can judge firsthand!) but UM has avoided making models already made by another manufacturer even though the same can't be said the other way 'round, e.g. the Farish J39.

I have more than a dozen UM locos but I haven't bought one since the the Prince of Wales came out.  I may spring for a Dukedog, however, just because of the outside frames.

Matt

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: port perran on August 30, 2016, 05:19:16 pm
Sounds like a good Christmas present idea to me.
I'll be ordering one.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: daveg on August 30, 2016, 07:37:50 pm
Sounds great.

Can anyone kindly provide a photo or a link to a good picture of the loco?

Dave G
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on August 30, 2016, 07:39:45 pm
Sounds great.

Can anyone kindly provide a photo or a link to a good picture of the loco?

Dave G

I emailed Colin earlier today; he doesn't have any photos yet!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: daveg on August 30, 2016, 09:09:21 pm
Sounds great.

Can anyone kindly provide a photo or a link to a good picture of the loco?

Dave G

I emailed Colin earlier today; he doesn't have any photos yet!

Cheers, NeMo

Thanks Nemo

Has anyone got a photo of the real thing?

Dave G
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: railsquid on August 30, 2016, 11:59:32 pm
http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-dukedogs.html (http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-dukedogs.html)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_3200_Class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_3200_Class)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on August 31, 2016, 10:17:34 am
I asked Colin about the 'Dukedog' and mentioned our interest in the outside frames, something not done before, and he replied...

"Well, maybe not in N but it is fairly standard in 00. The axles are supported by normal inside frames, the outside frames are dummy, part of the upper body. The outside cranks are pressed on to extended axles. Likewise the outside frames are dummy on the bogie. But it all looks as it should."

I think this all sounds really promising. I'm definitely going to get one!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Thorpe Parva on August 31, 2016, 10:40:17 am
GT3 would also require dummy outside frames on the front bogie. Maybe next year...
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Jerry Howlett on August 31, 2016, 10:56:58 am
Mrs "H" has said in the past if its less than a £100 buy it.....

Not sure if she wants a Dukedog for Xmas but what the...

Jerry
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Byegad on August 31, 2016, 11:05:52 am
Meanwhile I wrote to Colin begging for a Raven C7 (NER Class Z) Atlantic. It's really hard to find any Atlantics modelled and ASAIK no UK Atlantics at all.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: R Marshall on August 31, 2016, 12:39:14 pm
I hope you get a positive reply, but probably the outside cylinders and connecting rods will rule it out. I'd love a NER Atlantic.

I wonder if the 4CC (C8) would have more of a chance - the extensive valances might give a bit more cover to an elementary connecting rod arrangement.

Meanwhile I'm going to look at outside framed NER 2-4-0s to see whether anything might convert from a Dukedog.
 
Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Newportnobby on August 31, 2016, 02:51:39 pm
I can appreciate folks getting in a lather about it and I'm sure it will be a best seller for Colin but, as someone who shuns Rule 1 (with 2 exceptions) I won't be investing. (must stop watching Dragons Den)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ohlavache on September 01, 2016, 10:05:04 am
Just ordered mine in BR black.
I can't wait...
 :bounce:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on September 01, 2016, 10:08:45 am
I hope you get a positive reply, but probably the outside cylinders and connecting rods will rule it out. I'd love a NER Atlantic.

Were there no inside cylinder 'Atlantics' on the NER or any other railway company? Colin has already done any number of inside cylinder 4-6-0s.

The majority of his locos seem to be LNER and LMS designs, so clearly he favours "oop north" prototypes over "dahn saaf" ones.  :D

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ODRAILS on September 01, 2016, 12:18:23 pm
I hope you get a positive reply, but probably the outside cylinders and connecting rods will rule it out. I'd love a NER Atlantic.

Were there no inside cylinder 'Atlantics' on the NER or any other railway company? Colin has already done any number of inside cylinder 4-6-0s.

The majority of his locos seem to be LNER and LMS designs, so clearly he favours "oop north" prototypes over "dahn saaf" ones.  :D

The Aspinall L&Y atlantics of 1899 were inside cylinder locos with 7'3" wheels and lasted into LMS days.
Also there were inside cylinder atlantic tanks on the LNWR, GNR, LBSCR, NBR, etc. etc
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: PLD on September 01, 2016, 08:01:43 pm
The Aspinall L&Y atlantics of 1899 were inside cylinder locos with 7'3" wheels and lasted into LMS days.
Also there were inside cylinder atlantic tanks on the LNWR, GNR, LBSCR, NBR, etc. etc
The Aspinall is a good shout, but there may be slight issues in fitting the standard tender drive unit into a tank though  ;)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Hailstone on September 01, 2016, 08:14:23 pm
Ordered my BR black one today, I think Colin is onto a winner with this one, think of the future possibilities (City, Bulldog, Duke, Atbara, etc.) I can hardly wait!!

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Jerry Howlett on September 03, 2016, 02:15:42 pm
Ordered my BR black one today, I think Colin is onto a winner with this one, think of the future possibilities (City, Bulldog, Duke, Atbara, etc.) I can hardly wait!!

Regards,

Alex
Trying to resist as Mrs "H" has noticed a lack of activity on the layout this year, I haven't even test run the Class 22 I bought in June.

I am over to the UK in December.. DO NOT bring this to the pub!!!
(Unless I can find cash to give you at York then you can order an extra one for me...)
Jerry
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: HurricaneTich on September 03, 2016, 08:48:07 pm
Must... Resist!

On another note though.  Could the Tender unit be a potential correctly-sized replacement for the Peco Collett Goods?  I think the finish would differ slightly but shouldn't take too much to match them up!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: N_south on September 05, 2016, 09:01:31 pm
a Duke dog Temptation!!  :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: railsquid on September 14, 2016, 09:22:03 am
This video from about 3:50 has a bit on the last days of the Dukedogs:


direct link to segment: https://youtu.be/giYAha2eBYY?t=3m50s
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on November 08, 2016, 12:04:21 pm
 :bounce:  :claphappy: Postman just delivered a parcel from the Isle of Man .
Inside were two absolutely fantastic Dukedogs it's a shame I can't rush down the shed to play Sorry I mean test run them before they go away to be wrapped for Christmas they are a present from all the family.
I have of course looked at them and they do look a bit narrower than the outside frame O8s and the loco wheels are very free running I have a Green one with GREAT WESTERN 3204 and a Black one 9017 with Lion and wheel crest it even has a smoke box number although the green one hasn't got the number on the buffer beam ,
As soon as my mate can come over I will get him to help me put a video clip on here ,I might try to put a photo on here  if I can remember how to.
Very Happy Chappy,
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on November 08, 2016, 12:10:31 pm
As soon as my mate can come over I will get him to help me put a video clip on here
Yes please!  :beers:

I might try to put a photo on here  if I can remember how to.
Well, if you want to mail it over to me, I'd happily take some photos for you!  :hmmm:

Definitely a must-have loco for me. Just love these outside frame 4-4-0s.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: daveg on November 08, 2016, 12:22:42 pm
Can't wait to see what they look like running, esp the GW version.  :camera:

I suspect my railway account to have a bit of a bashing soon after!  :)

Dave G
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Zwilnik on November 08, 2016, 01:44:52 pm
Hi all.....if I were interested in purchasing a Union Mills model what is the best way of contactingtham as it doesn't appear they have a website....is there an email address or anywhere to look at what they have available?......a dealer that stocks them?......thanks, Mark.


It's a bit old fashioned, but the most direct way is to phone Colin on 01624 852896 and they only do direct orders, so there's no dealers (other than the odd, usually overpriced, second hand one).
They usually have a price list in the N Gauge Journal, but I think there's a thread for them on the forum too.. http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16508.75 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16508.75)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Croxy on November 08, 2016, 01:51:43 pm
Thanks very much......as is usual, after I posted that I kept looking and found an email address......   ::)

Just so accustomed to being able to go to a website and view / purchase things which is so easy.....

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 08, 2016, 01:55:48 pm
Thanks very much......as is usual, after I posted that I kept looking and found an email address......   ::)

Just so accustomed to being able to go to a website and view / purchase things which is so easy.....

 :thankyousign:

Railway Modeler usually carries an advert in the columns section.  Also Dukedog will be advertised in the next edition as they are about to ship to pre-order customers.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: GrahamB on November 08, 2016, 02:55:39 pm
My Dukedog also arrived today.  :bounce:

For some reason my Photobucket isn't working so hopefully this works
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=45301 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=45301)

It looks and runs perfectly on my test track.  :claphappy:

Sadly, when I run it on my layout, there is a problem. The coupling rods foul the platforms!  :doh:

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 08, 2016, 03:38:05 pm
I have that with a few steamers and I resolved to fix it when I'm sure which are the worst offenders.

Very nice Colin told me my two are in the post today along with spare tender castings to mill out for DCC chips.  Great service  :D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on November 08, 2016, 04:10:55 pm
GrahamB I've only looked at mine ,as I said I have to wait indoors for parcels for the family so havnt run mine yet, have you actualy checked the Dukedogs against the width of the outside frame O8s the Dukedogs look a little bit narrower but it might be just an illusion caused by the shape of the boiler against the squarer shape of the diesel.but I'm lucky when my station was built we had some Minitrix 9f Locos  which are quite wide so we built the platform with that plus a little bit more clearance so no problem there.
Bob Tidbury.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: GrahamB on November 08, 2016, 04:33:21 pm
GrahamB I've only looked at mine ,as I said I have to wait indoors for parcels for the family so havnt run mine yet, have you actualy checked the Dukedogs against the width of the outside frame O8s the Dukedogs look a little bit narrower but it might be just an illusion caused by the shape of the boiler against the squarer shape of the diesel.but I'm lucky when my station was built we had some Minitrix 9f Locos  which are quite wide so we built the platform with that plus a little bit more clearance so no problem there.
Bob Tidbury.
I don't have an 08 to compare it against. I don't think the GWR had any 08's  :wave:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 08, 2016, 04:46:28 pm
GrahamB I've only looked at mine ,as I said I have to wait indoors for parcels for the family so havnt run mine yet, have you actualy checked the Dukedogs against the width of the outside frame O8s the Dukedogs look a little bit narrower but it might be just an illusion caused by the shape of the boiler against the squarer shape of the diesel.but I'm lucky when my station was built we had some Minitrix 9f Locos  which are quite wide so we built the platform with that plus a little bit more clearance so no problem there.
Bob Tidbury.
I don't have an 08 to compare it against. I don't think the GWR had any 08's  :wave:

They had something similar that looked a bit like the LMS D3-6
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 08, 2016, 04:49:41 pm
My worst offender so far is a Langley casting of a Streamlined Princess Coronation which is much wider than the Britannia chassis.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: johnlambert on November 08, 2016, 04:54:45 pm
Having seen the picture someone posted I've just given Colin a call and placed an order for a Dukedog in GWR livery.  As I have just discovered that GWR 3210 was based at Stratford-upon-Avon shed from 1941-52 I think I can justify its presence on my layout.

Given how popular it seems to be I didn't want to wait and find he'd sold out.  This will be my first Union Mills loco so I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on November 08, 2016, 05:08:02 pm
Johnlambert ,You won't be disappointed with the performance that I can promise you,but don't expect a super detailed model with fancy brake gear you can't even see or seperate handrails that twist out of shape or even coloured whistles ,they are very basic models but lots of people do add all the fancy bits themselves .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 08, 2016, 05:12:43 pm
As Bob says they are good, solid and basic, but as they are they pass muster, and some people really go to town on them.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on November 08, 2016, 07:54:24 pm
Johnlambert ,You won't be disappointed with the performance that I can promise you,but don't expect a super detailed model with fancy brake gear you can't even see or seperate handrails that twist out of shape or even coloured whistles ,they are very basic models but lots of people do add all the fancy bits themselves .
Bob Tidbury

Each to their own Bob.

I would contend that on super detailed models you most certainly can see the brake gear, and I have yet to twist a single handrail out of shape on the many such models I have.

I do not belittle UM locos, and have many but I prefer to see them as further choice as many models Colin Heard does would never be contemplated by a mainstream manufacturer (like my now chipped J38).

In my view UM and super detailed both have their place and indeed can live in perfect harmony on your layout!

Regards

Roy

P.S. the Dukedog looks very nice even if it's underframe  looks a little chunky to my eye but all credit to Mr H for even attempting it - I'm sure it will prove hugely popular.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 09, 2016, 12:53:21 pm
My Dukedogs arrived today and are very nice, especially sitting next to my UM Dean Goods.

The external linkage does project but its no worse than quite a few of my other models so if a platform fits a Minitrix Britannia, Class 08  (new) etc it will be fine with this model.

Is a very well made model, robust and detailing in line with The best of UM models.

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Zwilnik on November 09, 2016, 03:18:14 pm
Mine arrived this morning too (GWR Green). Looks great and lots of potential for me to add my own touches to it.

I've got an 08 on my layout, so my platform clearances are already super wide :)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Hailstone on November 09, 2016, 09:11:59 pm
Mine arrived today, and I have just spent a very happy hour watching it going round my layout. a little trimming was required on one platform, but otherwise all is well.
My heartfelt thanks go to Colin Heard of Union Mills, who has given all of us Western men another little jewel. maybe a City of Truro is now a possibility?

Hopefully,

Alex   
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: daveg on November 09, 2016, 09:16:48 pm
... maybe a City of Truro is now a possibility?

Hopefully,

Alex   

That'd be amazing!

Dave G
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Croxy on November 09, 2016, 09:40:07 pm
Having never purchased a Union Mills loco...... I sent Colin an email for some information so I'm looking forward to receiving an information package from him shortly.....you've all got me curious.....

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on November 09, 2016, 10:56:04 pm
 :sorrysign: I thought that the Dukedogs were narrower but now I've been down the shed and checked it was an optical illusion caused by the shape of the boiler against the square shape of the O8s and they are in fact slightly wider ,but mine are really quiet and smooth runners in fact they are so quiet that you have to keep an eye on them to see where they are . The wheels of the coaches over track joints and point make far more noise .I still havnt managed to get a video or photos done but I will get the hang of it one of these days.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Tonye on November 12, 2016, 02:26:49 pm
 :hellosign: I got my Duke Dog today ,Just about to test run on my layout ahead of next weekends show at Shoeburyness . The livery is shirtbutton .   
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Jerry Howlett on November 12, 2016, 02:36:47 pm
Mine arrived today, and I have just spent a very happy hour watching it going round my layout. a little trimming was required on one platform, but otherwise all is well.
My heartfelt thanks go to Colin Heard of Union Mills, who has given all of us Western men another little jewel. maybe a City of Truro is now a possibility?

Hopefully,

Alex   

: :veryangry2: :envy: :envy: :veryangry2: If that enters the pub in December it may end up in your  :beers:  Jerry
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Hailstone on November 12, 2016, 02:39:05 pm
 :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 01, 2017, 10:07:12 pm
Got my Dukedog today and boy is she a treat! I wrote Colin to thank him and to ask what his next offering will be. He wrote back that next up is a GWR 2251 'Collett' 0-6-0 class, like Peco used to make, but obviously in UM style. :) Hadn't seen anyone mention it yet, so for once I might be the one to break some news!

Happy modeling -Philip
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: austinbob on March 01, 2017, 10:10:21 pm
A Collett 2251 would be very nice. Oh yes!!
 :beers:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Newportnobby on March 01, 2017, 10:24:11 pm
The 22xx would be an interesting move as the Peco ones are like rocking horse poo and priced very high. I bought mine when Peco brought it out and paid £110 for it. I wonder what Colin will charge :hmmm:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 01, 2017, 10:51:55 pm
The 22xx would be an interesting move as the Peco ones are like rocking horse poo and priced very high. I bought mine when Peco brought it out and paid £110 for it. I wonder what Colin will charge :hmmm:

I would guess 72£. That's what the Dean Goods are.  The Dukedogs are 82£, but I think wheel arrangement has something to do with the cost difference. Either way, a good price IMO :)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 01, 2017, 11:10:01 pm
I think its a case of have tender add loco  :D

I'm not complaining, I will have a couple as I have figured out how to fit DCC sound. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Zwilnik on March 01, 2017, 11:15:53 pm
Nice. That'll look good pulling 100 coal wagons around my layout :)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 02, 2017, 12:14:30 am
I think its a case of have tender add loco  :D

I'm not complaining, I will have a couple as I have figured out how to fit DCC sound. :thumbsup:

I would love a tutorial with a few pictures and a video, if you find a spare moment and feel inspired to share!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 02, 2017, 12:31:58 am
I think its a case of have tender add loco  :D

I'm not complaining, I will have a couple as I have figured out how to fit DCC sound. :thumbsup:

I would love a tutorial with a few pictures and a video, if you find a spare moment and feel inspired to share!



You carve out all the coal and mount the chip and speaker on top.  I will be doing another soon and will post photos.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 02, 2017, 01:20:11 am
I think its a case of have tender add loco  :D

I'm not complaining, I will have a couple as I have figured out how to fit DCC sound. :thumbsup:

I would love a tutorial with a few pictures and a video, if you find a spare moment and feel inspired to share!



You carve out all the coal and mount the chip and speaker on top.  I will be doing another soon and will post photos.

Thanks very much! I'll be keeping an eye out for that! What size speaker do you use? I noticed YouChoos has some new, smaller sugar-cube-like options and have been curious about them.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: oreamnos on June 30, 2017, 06:50:33 pm
I was just browsing this thread and then it dawned on me that this is about the time of year Colin announces what his next model will be.  He has been very consistent the past few years, with the Super Claud released in 2014, the Dean Goods in 2015, and the Dukedog in 2016 so I should think he has earned a well deserved break.

That said, for purely selfish reasons I hope he won't be taking one!  And if he won't be, has there been any hint of what his next model will be?

Matt
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: longbow on June 30, 2017, 07:00:50 pm
Next up from UM is a Collett 2251, according to previous posts in this thread
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: oreamnos on June 30, 2017, 07:12:29 pm
Thank you.  I hadn't bothered to check earlier posts since I hadn't expected him to make an announcement so early.  Now I feel foolish.

I think I'm kind of disappointed to hear this news.  Colin has steered clear of prototypes that have been made by other manufacturers in the past and this would also be his third western loco in a row.  At least we can be assured his Collett will pull a train.  My Peco one is not the best.

Matt
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 30, 2017, 07:16:42 pm
Thank you.  I hadn't bothered to check earlier posts since I hadn't expected him to make an announcement so early.  Now I feel foolish.

I think I'm kind of disappointed to hear this news.  Colin has steered clear of prototypes that have been made by other manufacturers in the past and this would also be his third western loco in a row.  At least we can be assured his Collett will pull a train.  My Peco one is not the best.

Matt

Its a case of "have GWR tender find suitable loco" and I like GWR  :D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on June 30, 2017, 08:44:39 pm
There is absolutely no chance of another run of the Peco 2251 so the UM one will be the only model available for the foreseeable future.
For my eyes the Peco model had a tender that was too big and just looked plain wrong. Based on past models the UM version will be low on detail and need quite a bit of fettling to make it an acceptable model. That said I will almost certainly buy one. Now who supplies N gauge handrail knobs?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Hailstone on June 30, 2017, 10:05:29 pm
There is absolutely no chance of another run of the Peco 2251 so the UM one will be the only model available for the foreseeable future.
For my eyes the Peco model had a tender that was too big and just looked plain wrong. Based on past models the UM version will be low on detail and need quite a bit of fettling to make it an acceptable model. That said I will almost certainly buy one. Now who supplies N gauge handrail knobs?

N brass locos do all the detail bits you need, or you can go to BH enterprises. I am a satisfied and regular customer of both.

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: LAandNQFan on June 30, 2017, 11:32:48 pm
 :claphappy: I'm delighted that Colin's doing a Collett and have already ordered one!  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: leachsprite4 on July 01, 2017, 07:31:18 am
Great news, I've wondered, since the dean goods could you fit a union mills tender to a piece collet?

That said really I'd like a br early crest in plain green and Colin normally gets that shade spot on so I may as well get a union mills collet rather than butcher my peco one.

In fact I could sell my peco one and probably get two from Colin!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: SheldonC on July 04, 2017, 12:07:18 am
If it had been a Jones Goods I'd be interested............   :thumbsdown:

[url]http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emgeedee/jpgstore/jones.jpg[/url] ([url]http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emgeedee/jpgstore/jones.jpg[/url])
  I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for an outside-cylinder engine from Union Mills........but if it were to happen, I'd rather it were a Q5, Q6 or Q7.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: SheldonC on July 04, 2017, 12:08:18 am
There are times when I wish I weren't so pedantic about the subjunctive mood.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: SheldonC on July 04, 2017, 12:13:32 am
There is absolutely no chance of another run of the Peco 2251 so the UM one will be the only model available for the foreseeable future.
For my eyes the Peco model had a tender that was too big and just looked plain wrong. Based on past models the UM version will be low on detail and need quite a bit of fettling to make it an acceptable model. That said I will almost certainly buy one. Now who supplies N gauge handrail knobs?
  I know what you mean, but the human eye doesn't notice much detail on such small models when they're doing what they're supposed to - moving about on a bit of railway.  I'm a fan of UM because, from normal viewing distances, they look the part and will pull a heavy train up the side of a house; (I may exaggerate, but only slightly!).
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 04, 2017, 12:18:03 am
I am always surprised that no one has ever created detailing kits for UM models, particularly N Brass or BH Enterprises.

Even a list of parts and diagrams would be good start and photos would be even better.  I'm sure more would attempt to improve their models given a push in the right direction.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: GrahamB on July 04, 2017, 07:24:27 am
To be fair, I can remember at least one article in the N Gauge Journal showing how to detail (I think) the Dean Goods.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: broadsword on July 04, 2017, 10:03:38 am
Semgoline has an article about detailing the UM Drummond 700.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: R Marshall on July 04, 2017, 11:35:58 am
If it had been a Jones Goods I'd be interested............   :thumbsdown:

[url]http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emgeedee/jpgstore/jones.jpg[/url] ([url]http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emgeedee/jpgstore/jones.jpg[/url])
  I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for an outside-cylinder engine from Union Mills........but if it were to happen, I'd rather it were a Q5, Q6 or Q7.


Or a C7!

Unlikely though - hopefully DJM will fill the Q6 gap.

Nowt wrong with the subjunctive, by the way.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 04, 2017, 11:43:49 am
I don't think it's so much outside cylinders as valve gear that Colin draws the line at, I did query the lilelihood of one of the later  LSWR Adams 4-4-0 (T3, X6 etc) that lasted into WW2 and 563 is preserved at Swanage railway, his reply did not say "never", just something on the lines of "might be worth thinking about".  Admittedly none of them wore Malachite (praise be) nor BR livery.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: broadsword on July 04, 2017, 12:34:47 pm
He has a fixed format of inside cylinder locos including  some of the
less modelled types and it seems to work well, basic detailing
but powerful and prices are very good,
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: CarriageShed on July 04, 2017, 12:41:34 pm
There's already quite a bit of detailing available from the likes of Etched Pixels, BH Enterprises, and N Brass Locos, and I've used them very satisfactorily. I've also added a few notes to my workbench thread about minor (but very effective) detailing for the Southern T9:

(http://www.ngauge.historyfiles.co.uk/images/locomotives/N/Steam_ClassT9_17.jpg)

What I'd love from UM is a variation of loco chassis with different wheels sizes, and perhaps even different bodies for loco classes that only have minor variations (such as the LSWR Drummond types). We could mix and match our own locos, picking the 4-4-0 body and 4-4-0 chassis that matches our intended class as closely as possible... and then add the tender of our choice too (watercart, Adams, Drummond, etc). You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: daveg on July 04, 2017, 12:45:26 pm
Place your excellent but unadorned UM loco in the talented hands of someone such as @ozymandias and you get this:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/1087-150617100533.jpeg)

 :D

Dave G


Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: broadsword on July 04, 2017, 12:57:12 pm
Very good, the USP of Union Mills is you can buy the basic loco and
leave it as it is (like me) or if you are skillful you can get the result
shown .
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Arrachogaidh on July 04, 2017, 01:51:34 pm
Caledonian Railway 294 "Jumbo"
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on July 04, 2017, 04:48:46 pm
http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/N/n_gauge_steam_locomotives.htm (http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/N/n_gauge_steam_locomotives.htm)

Maybe use the bits to modify/hack the UM Drummond  700 class?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Train Waiting on July 27, 2017, 09:06:01 pm
Hello

I'm new to the Forum and wanted to contribute to this thread just to say a public "Thank You" to Mr Heard for his splendid range of 'Union Mills' locomotives.  I have several of them and they are consistently excellent.  It was these wonderful models (I found out about them from 'Railway Modeller') that persuaded me to try to build a British 'N' Gauge layout.  Any British-outline locomotives, with the exception of the Peco 'Collett Goods', that I had previously run on my US 'N' Scale layout had, sadly, persuaded me that it would be best, for me at least with my limited layout building skills, to remain with Kato.  Then the 'B12' in lovely LNER apple green livery arrived...

All the very best.

John   
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Train Waiting on September 12, 2017, 01:08:08 pm
I'm at home today and great was my excitement when the postman delivered a letter with two splendid Manx stamps!

It was from Mr Heard at Union Mills, advising that the '2251' class 'Collett Goods' is available to order.

There are four to chose from:

3205 in 'GWR' green;

2294 and 2253 in BR, early totem, green;

And the one I'll be ordering - 2242 in 'GREAT WESTERN' green.

There is a larger than life-size (maybe about 3mm scale) photograph of 2242 on the information sheet and she looks lovely!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/264-120917212952-557001644.jpeg)

All are £75.00, plus postage, which I think is an absolute bargain.

With best wishes.

John


Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Arrachogaidh on September 12, 2017, 04:41:52 pm
Jumbo 57261

https://photos.smugmug.com/LMS-Scotland/18821890-CR-Dugald-Drummond/Drummond-Jumbo-Class-0-6-0-294-and-711-Classes/i-6GtmCwK/0/bb9b9322/XL/57261%20Drummond%20Caledonian%20Standard%20Goods%20Class-XL.jpg (https://photos.smugmug.com/LMS-Scotland/18821890-CR-Dugald-Drummond/Drummond-Jumbo-Class-0-6-0-294-and-711-Classes/i-6GtmCwK/0/bb9b9322/XL/57261%20Drummond%20Caledonian%20Standard%20Goods%20Class-XL.jpg)

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on September 12, 2017, 04:51:56 pm
Well that's Christmas taken care of  :)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Arrachogaidh on September 12, 2017, 05:00:06 pm
Well that's Christmas taken care of  :)

Yes, but which year???? Don't hold your breath!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on September 12, 2017, 05:01:56 pm
Spoke to Colin they are in the post. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on September 12, 2017, 05:45:33 pm
As posted in the happy thread , two ordered for Christmas from my family would have liked one of the B R early crest locos as well but didnt want to push my luck otherwise I might not be getting two maybe a B R one for my birthday if Colin  has got any left in March.
Of course when they arrive I WILL have to test them as soon as I can just in case they dont  work .even though I know they will work testing has to be done before they get hidden and wrapped up till Christmas.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: johnlambert on September 12, 2017, 05:59:21 pm
I can see one or two 2251s joining my collection, the picture certainly looks promising. Can't wait to see pictures of them on people's layouts.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on September 12, 2017, 06:37:17 pm
Very nice indeed and in this day and age £75 is a very affordable price for what will no doubt be a solid if basic workhorse. Just one plea, can one of the Mods turn the pic through 90 degrees, I'm getting a crick in my neck trying to look at it!!

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Newportnobby on September 12, 2017, 09:32:34 pm
As you wish :D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Train Waiting on September 12, 2017, 09:38:45 pm
Very many thanks, NPN, I tried and failed to get the photograph to go this way.

Sorry for any discomfort I caused, Roy.

All the best.

John
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on September 13, 2017, 11:15:19 am
Unlike most, the great thing about Union Mills is that Colin meets his projected delivery dates!

Thanks for turning the pic Mick. Very nice indeed. It seems pretty clear that the three most recent GW prototypes have proven very popular which is great news for GW/WR modellers. Sadly I have it from the Horse's mouth that there will be no Scottish prototypes on the horizon - I asked not so long ago. I would love a Glen or J35 but it won't happen via Union Mills.

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Hailstone on September 13, 2017, 12:13:31 pm
i have just ordered one, which will be 2253 in early crest BLACK, 2294 is the green one. please note that Colin confirmed these as the correct liveries for the 2 BR versions

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on September 13, 2017, 12:15:31 pm
My two Collett Goods locos ordered at twelve oclock midday yesterday arrived 1st class post at half past eleven this morning,  again superb service from Colin how does he do it ? .
They wlli be tested this evening and then unfortunately wrapped up untill Christmas.As usual they look good and even better when Snowwolflair has painted the copper chimney and brass safety dome and whistles and Ive put the vacuum pipe on the front.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Graham63 on September 13, 2017, 09:00:07 pm
I currently own 1 UM loco, the D16 Prince Albert, Looking at the latest 3 releases they seem very nice, has anyone checked how close to scale they are?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ten0G on September 14, 2017, 05:26:17 pm
 :drool: This is beginning to whet my appetite! 

Does anyone know if these models can run on a Finetrax layout without any problems, please? 
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ten0G on September 14, 2017, 05:27:56 pm

They wlli be tested this evening and then unfortunately wrapped up untill Christmas.
Bob Tidbury


 :photospleasesign:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: paulprice on September 14, 2017, 06:57:01 pm
I guess I may have to look at getting some of the LMS models :drool:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on September 14, 2017, 07:56:10 pm
I've got the 2P, and 3F, they arrived in this area via the S&DJR. Also got 4 of his ex LSWRs, 0395, 2x700 and a T9, and I've used his tender drives for a few other projects.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: LAandNQFan on September 15, 2017, 04:12:48 pm
As I need to see how the station building will fit before I can shape the next section of scenery, I had to start making it.  Then Colin Heard's latest model arrived, and I had to see how they would look together....
from track level
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/3891-150917160527.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=55853)
and side on
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/3891-150917160738.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=55854)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on September 15, 2017, 04:50:12 pm
That "baby castle" looks great.  If I was still into the joint LMR/WR Cambrian scene, I would have one, or more.  And would have had  the Dean goods and Dukedog as well.  But I moved my interests to beyond the northern border some years ago.  So pass on this.. 
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: R Marshall on September 15, 2017, 09:24:18 pm
:drool: This is beginning to whet my appetite! 

Does anyone know if these models can run on a Finetrax layout without any problems, please?

I have 3 UM models which run on the plain FINETRAX, but I haven't built any points yet.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on September 16, 2017, 01:54:11 pm
So what next?  Within the parameters of simple 060s or 440s, my nice to have list might include a Caley 2F, McIntosh or Pickersgill 440, J37 or J36.  I have produced 3 of those by hacking things, but a nice version would be welcome.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: port perran on September 19, 2017, 08:11:45 am
After a GW rush with the Dean Goods , the Dukedog and the 22xx , I guess Colin will probably be heading back up North for his next offering.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: BoxTunnel on September 19, 2017, 08:36:59 am
At the risk of slightly derailing the thread, how does one find out about Union Mills products and current offerings?  They don't seem to have an online presence and whilst I'm not a snowflake millennial glued to an iPhone (too old) I tend to use the interwebz as my first port of call when looking for information.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on September 19, 2017, 08:47:24 am
Adverts in railway modeler  :D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Train Waiting on September 19, 2017, 09:07:20 am
At the risk of slightly derailing the thread, how does one find out about Union Mills products and current offerings?  They don't seem to have an online presence and whilst I'm not a snowflake millennial glued to an iPhone (too old) I tend to use the interwebz as my first port of call when looking for information.

Graham

I suggest that you write to Union Mills and enclose a couple of first class stamps.

You will probably receive the current price list (which is shorter on stock than normal!) and some other very interesting information about Union Mills and its products.

Colin Heard Esq
Union Mills Models Ltd
Unit 5
Union Mills Trading Estate
Braddan
Isle of Man
IM4 4AB.

One word of warning, though.  I found Union Mills models to be addictive and, with the exception of my Peco 'Collett Goods', these are the only steam locomotives I use in British 'N' gauge.

With best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: longbow on September 19, 2017, 09:15:01 am
Or call Colin on 01624 852 896.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: BoxTunnel on September 19, 2017, 10:06:34 am

One word of warning, though.  I found Union Mills models to be addictive and, with the exception of my Peco 'Collett Goods', these are the only steam locomotives I use in British 'N' gauge.



Locomotive crack! ;D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on September 19, 2017, 11:21:34 am
I wonder what the chances are of putting that tender behind a City class? Since Bachmann seem to have not bothered in shrinking their City of Truro to N gauge, perhaps Colin would give it a go?
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on September 19, 2017, 11:44:12 am
I wonder what the chances are of putting that tender behind a City class? Since Bachmann seem to have not bothered in shrinking their City of Truro to N gauge, perhaps Colin would give it a go?

I'd have thought it's such a famous class of locomotive, and so similar to the 'Dukedog', that there's a very good chance of this happening. Whether the tender would actually be realistic there is a whole other question though!

On the other hand, I am surprised by the lack of kits available for Union Mills chassis and tenders. Given places like of Langley Models still have any number of kits for old, rubbish chassis -- surely it'd be much nicer to have whitemetal, 3D printed, or even etched brass kits that could be slapped onto the infinitely better Union Mills equivalents.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: thebrighton on September 19, 2017, 11:50:12 am
I think the tricky bit of making kits to fit UM chassis is that the loco chassis is integral with the body so although you can drop the tender drive out in its entirety a hack saw would need to be applied to the loco to separate chassis from body. Yes that's doable but getting a nice clean, square cut isn't as easy and would put people off. Of course if a kit came with a replacement block for the drivers...............
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on September 19, 2017, 11:54:30 am
I think the tricky bit of making kits to fit UM chassis is that the loco chassis is integral with the body so although you can drop the tender drive out in its entirety a hack saw would need to be applied to the loco to separate chassis from body. Yes that's doable but getting a nice clean, square cut isn't as easy and would put people off. Of course if a kit came with a replacement block for the drivers...............

Fair point. I'd forgotten that the (loco) wheels sit inside the body rather than a separate chassis. But still, you could imagine a kit for the 0-6-0 loco at the front, into which you plugged the UM tender.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on September 19, 2017, 11:58:18 am
I keep on ( pre ordering  ) City of Truro from Colin and the last time I spoke to him he said he wasnt planning to do it But Never Say Never were his exact words ,so if we keep on asking he might do it as as several.members have said it is very similar to the Dukedog and ad he has now got the outside frames sorted hes half way there  and if Karhedron  has said it would look nice with that tender then thats good enough for me ,and if Colin does do it perhaps we could then do a bulk order to Narrow Planet for some etched name and number plates to really make it a nice looking model.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on September 19, 2017, 12:46:31 pm
Similar to this was discussed a few weeks ago

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38400.msg458642#msg458642 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38400.msg458642#msg458642)

UM tender drive definitely, but make the loco body, 3D print or resin cast, in the same way Colin does his with a flate base, then add a keeper plate (brass strip) with grooves for the axles again same as UM "chassis", all you need then is wheels with axles live to one wheel, etched brass coupling rods. Bogies if required should not be a problem.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on September 19, 2017, 05:50:08 pm
So what next?  Within the parameters of simple 060s or 440s, my nice to have list might include a Caley 2F, McIntosh or Pickersgill 440, J37 or J36.  I have produced 3 of those by hacking things, but a nice version would be welcome.

Things do change, but when I last spoke to Colin Heard on the subject he was firmly of the view that he would not be doing any more Scottish locos. I would love a D34 "Glen" and be quite happy to do my own tweaks to detail one of his (plus a chip) but I think he will elect for another region personally - maybe Eastern (GNR/GER) - there are a few classes of 0-6-0 tender locos there worthy of a look.

Roy


Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on September 19, 2017, 11:52:37 pm
So what next?  Within the parameters of simple 060s or 440s, my nice to have list might include a Caley 2F, McIntosh or Pickersgill 440, J37 or J36.  I have produced 3 of those by hacking things, but a nice version would be welcome.

Things do change, but when I last spoke to Colin Heard on the subject he was firmly of the view that he would not be doing any more Scottish locos. I would love a D34 "Glen" and be quite happy to do my own tweaks to detail one of his (plus a chip) but I think he will elect for another region personally - maybe Eastern (GNR/GER) - there are a few classes of 0-6-0 tender locos there worthy of a look.

Roy




Interesting.  Looking at his previous lists and what comes up on FleeBay, I would not have said he had done any Scottish, except I think he did a J38 ?  There has been some North Eastern Railway, the Gresley J39 and Fowler 2P were to be found in Scotland but not uniquely so.  The B12/3 variation was not a regular Scottish performer if at all.  The Director is a possible, and while he went for the English version, I might well go for it if he does another run.  But nothing specifically Caley or NBR those being the pre grouping companies whose locos survived to BR days in decent numbers.    I too would welcome a Glen. Though  I have converted a BHE Claude into a reasonable likeness as I could not source a Hughes kit at sensible prices.  Still he will do what he will do, and that will be what he reckons he can sell.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ten0G on September 20, 2017, 10:32:22 am
I keep on ( pre ordering  ) City of Truro from Colin and the last time I spoke to him he said he wasnt planning to do it But Never Say Never were his exact words ,so if we keep on asking he might do it as as several.members have said it is very similar to the Dukedog and ad he has now got the outside frames sorted hes half way there  and if Karhedron  has said it would look nice with that tender then thats good enough for me ,and if Colin does do it perhaps we could then do a bulk order to Narrow Planet for some etched name and number plates to really make it a nice looking model.
Bob Tidbury

I wonder what the chances are of putting that tender behind a City class? Since Bachmann seem to have not bothered in shrinking their City of Truro to N gauge, perhaps Colin would give it a go?

I will see if I can register my interest with him as well, thanks. 
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Cape Town Trev on September 20, 2017, 06:03:36 pm
Crowd funded by the NGF?

Two orders only another (now where are those pie charts of Dave Jones when you need them?)

Perhaps Colin would prefer to take all the risk for all the return.

Just putting it out there  :D
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on September 20, 2017, 07:14:42 pm
So what next?  Within the parameters of simple 060s or 440s, my nice to have list might include a Caley 2F, McIntosh or Pickersgill 440, J37 or J36.  I have produced 3 of those by hacking things, but a nice version would be welcome.

Things do change, but when I last spoke to Colin Heard on the subject he was firmly of the view that he would not be doing any more Scottish locos. I would love a D34 "Glen" and be quite happy to do my own tweaks to detail one of his (plus a chip) but I think he will elect for another region personally - maybe Eastern (GNR/GER) - there are a few classes of 0-6-0 tender locos there worthy of a look.

Roy




Interesting.  Looking at his previous lists and what comes up on FleeBay, I would not have said he had done any Scottish, except I think he did a J38 ?  There has been some North Eastern Railway, the Gresley J39 and Fowler 2P were to be found in Scotland but not uniquely so.  The B12/3 variation was not a regular Scottish performer if at all.  The Director is a possible, and while he went for the English version, I might well go for it if he does another run.  But nothing specifically Caley or NBR those being the pre grouping companies whose locos survived to BR days in decent numbers.    I too would welcome a Glen. Though  I have converted a BHE Claude into a reasonable likeness as I could not source a Hughes kit at sensible prices.  Still he will do what he will do, and that will be what he reckons he can sell.

I think it was the J38 Colin was alluding to, but the "Scottish Directors" and D20 may well be in the mix too. No, none solely Scottish I'd have to agree but the J38s' survival until 1967 was certainly due to their usefulness hauling coal in Scotland. I guess it may not have been a strong seller, but it is certainly (to me at least) one of his nicer models and scrubs up pretty well.

I suppose we'll just have to see, but based on the success of his GW prototypes who would bet against another - maybe even "City of Truro"?

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on September 20, 2017, 08:04:16 pm
Recently he seems to do of 3 from the same company, 3 SR, T9, 700 and 0395, now just finished 3 GWR, previously 6 LNER and 6 LMS (counting classes not all the separate liveries) so might we hope of an SR or 3 then 3 further GWR (are there that many more inside cylindered GWR types?) So far the SR types are all ex LSWR, maybe time for some ex SECR &/or LBSCR, plenty of SECR/SR 44-4-0s D,D1, E,E1, L,L1, ex LBSC, Gladstone 0-4-2, B2/B2x, B4/B4x, then there's a few 0-6-0s as well.

My wish list would include, in order, ex LSWR A12 (0-4-2) and 4-4-0s D15 and S11, followed by K10 or L11.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: longbow on September 20, 2017, 09:02:58 pm
The recent BRM article on Union Mills reveals that Colin does pretty much everything himself in house and that his initial production run is 250 units with presumably the expectation of further runs as demand permits. With that in mind he may not have the capacity for commissions nor an appetite for very obscure prototypes. No harm in asking though!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: CarriageShed on September 21, 2017, 02:35:51 pm
My wish list would include, in order, ex LSWR A12 (0-4-2) and 4-4-0s D15 and S11, followed by K10 or L11.

That wish list gets my backing. I'd like one of each of those, please Colin.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on September 21, 2017, 05:10:01 pm
The recent BRM article on Union Mills reveals that Colin does pretty much everything himself in house and that his initial production run is 250 units with presumably the expectation of further runs as demand permits. With that in mind he may not have the capacity for commissions nor an appetite for very obscure prototypes. No harm in asking though!

I thought the article said 200 with additional runs of 25 after the first lot sold through, but what it doesn't say is if that is per livery variant or in total.

I would agree that there can't be any harm at all in asking Colin if he would consider a commission for a specific model and if yes a costing, taking into account that he only does inside cylinder versions and his design obviously only suits tender locos.

Then if he would, the question would then be can sufficient interest be generated in that loco to make it viable?

Roy

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on September 21, 2017, 06:43:24 pm
Problem I can see with that is deciding which loco(s) there were 4 companies at grouping, so finding one loco that would suit adherents of all companies  would be near impossible, I would only be interested in Southern, some would want LMS, others LNER, and others GWR. Looking at the UM list I think it stands at something like 6 LMS, 6 LNER, 3 SR and 3 GWR, we've just had the 3 GWR  so next should be SR (says he hopefully).

Another consideration could be what inside cylinder locos made it through to BR days? It would seem that there is little chance of getting anything that didn't see BR livery. Probably more 0-6-0s  than 4-4-0s on the lines north of London, 'tother way round on the Southern, I can think of at least twelve SR 4-4-0s but only about six 0-6-0s.



Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on September 21, 2017, 08:29:34 pm
Hi Mike

A very fair point you make, I would have no interest in Southern or GW, I guess you're never going please everyone.

My wishlist would be a J36, D34, or going into East Anglia a J15 or J17 (Which I think could use the existing Claude Hamilton tender) would any garner sufficient support?

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 22, 2017, 05:24:24 pm
I'd have thought it's such a famous class of locomotive, and so similar to the 'Dukedog', that there's a very good chance of this happening. Whether the tender would actually be realistic there is a whole other question though!

On the other hand, I am surprised by the lack of kits available for Union Mills chassis and tenders. Given places like of Langley Models still have any number of kits for old, rubbish chassis -- surely it'd be much nicer to have whitemetal, 3D printed, or even etched brass kits that could be slapped onto the infinitely better Union Mills equivalents.

Cheers, NeMo

But nobody wants to rip up a UM loco 8)

Colin also will sell just tenders when he has spares around and that can be handy for scratchbuilds. I'm fairly sure he'd sell someone a batch of tenders for a kit project.

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: CarriageShed on September 22, 2017, 06:00:05 pm
I'm pretty sure he'll also sell the bare motors without the tenders. I've had it in my mind for a while that I'll upgrade some of the older motors to the newer, better ones, with better slow speed control.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on September 22, 2017, 06:16:06 pm
I'm pretty sure he'll also sell the bare motors without the tenders. I've had it in my mind for a while that I'll upgrade some of the older motors to the newer, better ones, with better slow speed control.

Yes if you ask him nicely.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on September 22, 2017, 06:27:13 pm
In the past I've bought drives, motors and complete tenders from Colin.  I'd like to know if he makes his own wheels or has them made for him.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on September 22, 2017, 06:48:39 pm
There is a really good article in British Railway Modeling October issue about Union Mills Models and a picture of Colin  in his workshop and the injection moulding machine and mould he uses to make the center of the wheels which then have the metal part  fitted .There are also articles on four N gauge layouts .
For once B R M have done N Gauge proud.I only buy a magazine if there is something worth reading and this one is worth the £4-75 it cost and I will keep this on my railway bookshelf.
It actually took a while to read the relevant articles instead of the twenty minutes most magazines take.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: BobB on September 23, 2017, 12:29:02 pm
There has been a mention of City of Truro. Now that would surely be a rule 1 popular locomotive. I could even run it as a preserved train among some diesels.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on September 25, 2017, 09:25:26 am
There has been a mention of City of Truro. Now that would surely be a rule 1 popular locomotive. I could even run it as a preserved train among some diesels.

Indeed. It can even be used in preservation in different eras. CoT famously returned to mainline operation in the late 50s. It frequently worked on the DN&S line in between railtour duties.

(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/gallery/album_4097/med_gallery_14351_4097_227974.jpg)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ten0G on September 30, 2017, 06:14:36 pm
There has been a mention of City of Truro. Now that would surely be a rule 1 popular locomotive. I could even run it as a preserved train among some diesels.

Indeed. It can even be used in preservation in different eras. CoT famously returned to mainline operation in the late 50s. It frequently worked on the DN&S line in between railtour duties.

([url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/gallery/album_4097/med_gallery_14351_4097_227974.jpg[/url])


CoT was returned to service in 1957 as 3440 in the ornate livery she carried at the time of her speed record in 1904, according to Wikipedia.  Does anybody know which shade of green was used when she was re-liveried? 
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: acook on October 08, 2017, 01:38:48 pm
Hi tenOG,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/GWR_3440_City_of_Truro_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1479746.jpg shows the livery nicely, looks like the darker pre 1928 green. Railmatch RM600 or Precision Paints.
Alan
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ten0G on October 09, 2017, 09:23:33 am
Hi tenOG,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/GWR_3440_City_of_Truro_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1479746.jpg shows the livery nicely, looks like the darker pre 1928 green. Railmatch RM600 or Precision Paints.
Alan

Thanks, Alan.  That will add a bit more variety to the scene. 
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob G on October 09, 2017, 09:32:04 am
There has been a mention of City of Truro. Now that would surely be a rule 1 popular locomotive. I could even run it as a preserved train among some diesels.

Indeed. It can even be used in preservation in different eras. CoT famously returned to mainline operation in the late 50s. It frequently worked on the DN&S line in between railtour duties.

([url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/gallery/album_4097/med_gallery_14351_4097_227974.jpg[/url])


Blimey, runs straight through my modelled region. These WR folk get everywhere.
What it is hauling in that photo? Crimson Cream obviously, but Collett coaches maybe?

Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Karhedron on October 09, 2017, 10:12:35 am
([url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/gallery/album_4097/med_gallery_14351_4097_227974.jpg[/url])

What it is hauling in that photo? Crimson Cream obviously, but Collett coaches maybe?


Yes, Collett coaches I think. The first two look like 1930s mainline stock, the same family that Hornby has recently released in 00. The last vehicle looks like a sunshine brake.

Here is another shot of a similar working.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/GWR-and-BRW/GWR-4-4-0s/i-VZqhLDJ/0/5ae166e4/XL/Heritage_GWR_3440_Newbury_8-57-XL.jpg)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob G on October 09, 2017, 10:30:57 am
Way Hey!
Shame I had to sell Ditcheat Manor, but City of Truro. No contest.
Bob
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: lil chris on January 18, 2018, 09:54:38 pm
My wish is that he will one day do a L&Y Aspinall 0-6-0 class 27 tender loco. A lot were used in the north of England between Lancashire and Yorkshire on the old L & Y lines. I was thinking of trying to convert one of the other models but it's a bit beyond my skills. I have bought a 3f instead which I am in the process of detailing.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Caz on January 19, 2018, 08:31:12 am
I've found a nice easy way to convert my Union Mills Collett coupler pockets to accept the Dapol Easyshunts and if anyone is interest I'll write up a tutorial.  Guess it would work for most of the UM locos.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Snowwolflair on January 19, 2018, 08:48:52 am
Yes please
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Chris Morris on January 19, 2018, 09:07:26 am
Colin could even do City of Truro in BR black as it appeared on the cover of the April 1985 edition of Steam Railway magazine.

Well maybe not, as I recall the head of the loco department on the Severn Valley Railway received death threats for that even though it was a spoof.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 19, 2018, 09:21:29 am
If Colin does do City of Truro  he could do it as a deluxe edition with etched name and number plates but I doubt if he will do it with the full lining so people like our Ozymandias will have lots of commission work lineing  them for members like me who definately dont have the skill he has ,I would only ruin one if I tried .
So get some good photos out Ozy and start checking colours and dimensions of the lineing  just in case Colin does make it .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: SheldonC on January 19, 2018, 10:22:08 am
I've found a nice easy way to convert my Union Mills Collett coupler pockets to accept the Dapol Easyshunts and if anyone is interest I'll write up a tutorial.  Guess it would work for most of the UM locos.

Yes, please - who wouldn't want to? :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: JohnN on January 19, 2018, 10:29:36 am
Me too please.  :)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Caz on January 19, 2018, 02:39:17 pm
I've found a nice easy way to convert my Union Mills Collett coupler pockets to accept the Dapol Easyshunts and if anyone is interest I'll write up a tutorial.  Guess it would work for most of the UM locos.


Think I've covered everything, here's the tutorial on how to convert a Union Mills loco to accept Dapol EasiShunt couplings @Snowwolflair (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3761) @JohnN (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4655) @SheldonC (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3604)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40095.msg486298#msg486298 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40095.msg486298#msg486298)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: JohnN on January 19, 2018, 03:17:46 pm
Many thanks for taking the time and effort to post this Caz. It's much appreciated.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Roy L S on January 21, 2018, 01:52:18 pm
If Colin does do City of Truro  he could do it as a deluxe edition with etched name and number plates but I doubt if he will do it with the full lining so people like our Ozymandias will have lots of commission work lineing  them for members like me who definately dont have the skill he has ,I would only ruin one if I tried .
So get some good photos out Ozy and start checking colours and dimensions of the lineing  just in case Colin does make it .
Bob Tidbury

I may be in a minority but after 3 GWR models in consecutive years I would like to think Colin might look at another region. Something with Scottish, Eastern or LMS roots would be my preference.

With Hornby producing a J36 in 00 wouldn't it be nice to see one in N too, such a long lived and useful class of locos.

Roy
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ten0G on January 21, 2018, 03:02:20 pm
If Colin does do City of Truro  he could do it as a deluxe edition with etched name and number plates but I doubt if he will do it with the full lining ...

I would have thought the 1957 restored ornate 1904 livery would be a very popular version. 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/GWR_3440_City_of_Truro_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1479746.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/GWR_3440_City_of_Truro_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1479746.jpg)
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Portpatrick on January 21, 2018, 03:18:44 pm

With Hornby producing a J36 in 00 wouldn't it be nice to see one in N too, such a long lived and useful class of locos.

Roy
[/quote]

I'll second that.  With a D34 (Glen) as an alternative.  Failing that a Caley Jumbo or 440, both of which lasted into the late 50s and beyond.  Please dont tempt me with some Midland lovelies like the Spinner, the 999, or the Johnson 3P with the square rear splasher. 
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Rowlie on January 21, 2018, 07:59:07 pm
A Cambrian Railways Jones goods would be nice, it will go well with the Dukedog.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: ten0G on January 21, 2018, 08:00:01 pm
Colin could even do City of Truro in BR black as it appeared on the cover of the April 1985 edition of Steam Railway magazine.

Not for GW purists I agree, but I did think she looked rather smart ... could be tempting  :-[
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: R Marshall on January 22, 2018, 09:46:58 am

With Hornby producing a J36 in 00 wouldn't it be nice to see one in N too, such a long lived and useful class of locos.

Roy

I'll second that.  With a D34 (Glen) as an alternative.  Failing that a Caley Jumbo or 440, both of which lasted into the late 50s and beyond.  Please dont tempt me with some Midland lovelies like the Spinner, the 999, or the Johnson 3P with the square rear splasher.
[/quote]

Really it should be a NBR 0-6-0 and a 4-4-0 (not in the same year obviously - that would be greedy).

J36 is definitely the right call, but what about the D30s - the names alone make them very desirable and essential for anyone running the Waverley or the Border Counties line.

Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Arrachogaidh on January 23, 2018, 12:56:16 pm
Caley Jumbo for me.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Mr chapman on May 30, 2018, 06:40:57 pm
I'd like to see a South Eastern 4-4-0 like a D or L1. With the birdcages due it could help with sales :) They have a great track record with large 4-4-0's!
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Newportnobby on June 13, 2018, 09:30:43 am
In reply to my question as to what livery (liveries) City of Truro would sport, Colin Heard has replied only GW unlined green with 'GREAT WESTERN' on the tender sides.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on June 13, 2018, 09:39:52 am
Our Ozy is going to be very busy soon doing repaints into full lining and livery so he better get some decent photos sorted out ready for the deluge of customers .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: emjaybee on June 13, 2018, 10:34:47 am
Our Ozy is going to be very busy soon doing repaints into full lining and livery so he better get some decent photos sorted out ready for the deluge of customers .
Bob Tidbury

Just as well my locos are already in the queue then!

 :sweat:
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: daveg on June 13, 2018, 01:02:59 pm
Our Ozy is going to be very busy soon doing repaints into full lining and livery so he better get some decent photos sorted out ready for the deluge of customers .
Bob Tidbury

Just as well my locos are already in the queue then!

 :sweat:

Me next! Me next!  :D

Dave G
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: SheldonC on June 13, 2018, 05:20:42 pm
I'd like to see a South Eastern 4-4-0 like a D or L1. With the birdcages due it could help with sales :) They have a great track record with large 4-4-0's!
I'm not heavily into SR & constituents, but I have a sneaking admiration for the D1/E1/L1 rebuilds, not to decry the magnificent preserved D 4-4-0 - but I very much doubt Colin would tackle that superb livery.
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Bob Tidbury on June 13, 2018, 05:36:17 pm
 I have ordered my City of Truro but itís a shame Colin hasnít done the livery I hoped he would , even as I suggested  as a deluxe one off with etched name and number plates thatís the one that would sell to even the modern image modellers but at least he did listen and do it and the experts like Ozy and other will be kept busy upgrading it for those of us that havenít got the ability to do it ourselves ,I will try and afford to get someone to do mine I will be asking Narrow planet to do the name and number plates for me they really are very nice plates and a reasonable price if you donít mind waiting for them. Then I will have three flagship locos on my layout
City of Truro
Poppylino
Chiltern 68
And those are not in any order of preference they will all be equall
And apart from Revolutions A P T E when itís available , City of Truro will probably be the last loco I will be able to buy unless I sell even more of my collection as the price of locos goes up but my State Pension stays more or less the same. I will have two Dapol 45xx locos for sale on the B H E STAND  £50 Ono at the Great Central Railway Show this weekend to pay for the City
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: NeMo on June 13, 2018, 05:59:18 pm
Not for GW purists I agree, but I did think she looked rather smart ... could be tempting  :-[

And let's face it, a lot of RTR steam locomotives are operated on modern image layouts as 'preserved steam specials' and the like. In which case anything goes!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Next Union Mills Model will be...
Post by: Dorsetmike on June 13, 2018, 06:17:00 pm
I'd like to see a South Eastern 4-4-0 like a D or L1. With the birdcages due it could help with sales :) They have a great track record with large 4-4-0's!

It's not too difficult to hack a Farish 4P into a reasonable looking D1/E1. I once did a more severe hack into a D15, back in the 1980s.