Wheels

[Dorsetmike]

Specifically steam loco drivers; one of the problems I see for scratch building and to a lesser extent hacking is the lack of driving wheel sets. ABS/Beaver used to do some, however the main problem I found with those was that they were not mounted on the supplied axle, hence quartering was a right PITA, which was probably the reason why it took Adrian Swain (ABS) years to sell a production run of 5,000; previously there had been some with squared ends to the axles which made quartering a comparative doddle.

Now if I want a wheel set it's usually a case of hunting Ebay for a suitable "spares or repair" loco or chassis from which wheels can be salvaged.

Would there be sufficient requirement among forum members to have a source of wheel sets with squared axle ends and obviously square holes in the wheels.

The ABS sets were produced in sizes from 4'0" to IIRC 6'6" (or maybe 7'0") at 6" increments so 4', 4'6", 5' 5'6" 6', 6'6"; the spokes were cast black plastic, rims/treads turned nickel silver and brass boss; last I heard he stil had the moulds etc.

Coupling rods should not be a problem, I've seen them in etched nickel silver, fluted one side plain the other, can't recall who did them.

The 2mm association make their own, from what I remember the wheels fit onto stub axles which fit into a plastic centre to suit a split chassis, maybe an alternative shorter centre piece to allow for the difference in gauge could work, not sure what their current price is.

[Snowwolflair]

This is a very old requirement and one that I believe should be addressed. However I have articles going back to 1957 asking the same for many scales.  What might have changed is the advent of 3D printing.  Theoretically you need three elements for a driving wheel, a rim turned in nickle silver, a hub which could be 3D printed to the style required, and an axle which can be machined.

What is missing is a set of standards which is where the 2mm society have got it sorted.

Would it be worth cooperating with the 2mm Society to develop an N variant of their standards and products for N ?

[NTrain]

The costs involved are very high.

Every size will have a minimum quantity manufacturing run.

It may be possible to use a common axle for all sizes.

I am not convinced that 3D printing offers a combination of accuracy/strength/cost to make it acceptable.

[thebrighton]

If a Farish loco has the appropriate size wheels give their service department a ring as they have a lot in stock as spares.

[Dorsetmike]

I think the 2mm wheels must be metal as they use split chassis. Is it possible to 3D print in an electrically conductive material?

Most locos use either 4 or 6 wheels, not so many use 8 or 10 and those will usually be the smaller diameters, so for every 100 wheels you could do 25 x 4 coupled, 16 x 6 coupled, or 10 of each, for 8coupled 12 locos, 10 coupled 10 locos or 4x8 & 6x10.

Ideally I would prefer the wheels already on axles and quartered unless the axle ends are square. Sold as sets of 4, 6, 8 or 10 wheels.

Buying Farish wheels as a set with con rods and valve gear where applicable, size is not the only criterion though, wheel spacing needs to be close to correct for the loco being built, unless you're prepared to maybe dismantle the valve gear and/or coupling rods

[thebrighton]

Buying Farish wheels as a set with con rods and valve gear where applicable, size is not the only criterion though, wheel spacing needs to be close to correct for the loco being built, unless you're prepared to maybe dismantle the valve gear and/or coupling rods

Coupling rods are a lot easier to make yourself than wheels and the 2mm SA and NBrass do etches.

[CarriageShed]

Would it be easier to persuade Union Mills to produce one or two loco chassis variations, complete with wheels, coupling rods, and chassis ready to wire up to a tender motor? The UM T9 with two other wheel size versions and with or without a leading bogie would probably fulfil quite a few requirements.

[thebrighton]

Would it be easier to persuade Union Mills to produce one or two loco chassis variations, complete with wheels, coupling rods, and chassis ready to wire up to a tender motor? The UM T9 with two other wheel size versions and with or without a leading bogie would probably fulfil quite a few requirements.

UM could probably do some of it but the top of the loco chassis is part of its superstructure so would require new tooling. Also, and I know this won't apply to all, I would only be interested in wheelsets that were blackened and with see through spokes rather than the UM shiny solid ones. Beaver/ABS managed see through spokes 30+ years ago. Not knocking UM, I have loads of their locos, but things have moved on.

[CarriageShed]

I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who has never scratchbuilt locos but would dearly love to do so. I'll also eventually get around to increasingly ambitious hacks of RTR locos (I've already done some simple stuff in that direction and it came out well). The 2mmFS approach of engineering upwards from individual parts is probably beyond my skills and will be for some time (not to mention my limited time), so the more pre-assembly that can be arranged, the happier I'd be.

[Stevie DC]

I don't think that (affordable i.e. Shapeways FUD/FXD) 3D printing can produce wheel centers to a sufficient tolerance to produce a concentric wheelset; at least consistently. I do think that a 3D printed wheel centre would be strong enough to cope with running but don't drop it! I know of a few people who have tried is a variety of materials and the only consistently concentric ones I know of were investment cast in brass, turned up on a lathe and fitted with a separate tyre.

Laser cutting my be an alternative, I know of a few continental finescale modellers who have apparently used this approach successfully (I've not seen anything running though) - some of the wheel centers were cut from cardboard!

In addition to Farish, DCC Supplies sell Dapol locomotive wheels but supplies are inconsistent. Fleischmann also offer a spares service but you'll need to know the part number to order (and many of their wheels still use 'pizza cutter' flanges)!

CNC machining could provide the answer but, as others have already said, it is costly to have a large batch machined (1000+ minimum) with no guarantee of selling them.

Gareth, didn't you make some locomotives using 2mm FS wheels at some point? Could they cope with N gauge tolerances?

[Dorsetmike]

Had a look at the 2mm wheels, each wheel is on a stub axle which fits into a plastic centre piece


2mm track gauge is 9.42mm compared to N which is 9.0mm, it would seem to me that this could be coped with by an alternative centre piece. I've not actually had any to handle so don't know if it would be possible to modify the centre piece or shorten the stub axles, I would hope that there is some way in which quartering is, from looking at an enlargement of the above  image there is a slot in the axle so maybe removing 0.21mm from each stub would sort the gauge.

Has anybody here tried doing this? If so how do the wheels run on Peco code 55 or Kato or other make of track.

The price per pair of wheels is £7

[Stevie DC]

Has anybody here tried doing this? If so how do the wheels run on Peco code 55 or Kato or other make of track.

I've not tried it but the problem I can see is that the 2mm Association wheel has a 0.3mm flange width compared with an N gauge wheel's 0.5-0.6mm. Also, given that the wheel is only 1.3mm wide in total, I would be concerned about its ability to fall into frogs, etc. The other thing to think about is that the muff is 6mm wide (the same width as a pre split frame Farish chassis) so how much side play can be gotten out of these wheels? You could shorten the muff but how well would it hold the stub axles in alignment as a result?

2mm standards can be found here: http://2mm.org.uk/standards/locochassis.htm

Even if the wheels can be used, it still leaves the problem of coupling rods; although the 2mm Association do sell some etches for some of the more common wheelbases (to 2mm scale).

[Dorsetmike]

Further to the above, with that plastic centre piece, and each stub axle being live, the chassis needs to be 2 metal side frames with  centre plastic spacer(s). 

[Dorsetmike]

Joining 2mm assoc to get a set of wheels to replace those on my Ex LSWR Adams A12, probably get chassis spacers and a few other bits to experiment with.

[thebrighton]

I have used 2mm SA wheels on N gauge locos but it has its limitations. The smaller flanges mean they are prone to dropping in to the frogs etc. Also in N we tend to use tighter curves than 2mm so you may find they pop off the track depending on radius. I stopped using them as there were only certain routes I could use on the layout. The benefit is split frame construction so no pick ups needed and betted running. Being stub axles it is dead easy to set them to N standards but you may need to file a tiny bit off the ends so they don't touch inside the muffs.