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Author Topic: Are Dapol locos 9v?  (Read 595 times)

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Offline Chris Morris

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2017, 09:31:11 am »
I'm also told (but haven't tested it myself) that some well known controllers can give out spikes from time to time. A short spike is unlikely to affect the motor but could destroy electronic components.

Offline Bealman

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2017, 09:36:45 am »
12V is 12V. Standard for model railways.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Bealman

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2017, 09:41:42 am »
I'm pretty sure its the diodes and or resistors for the lights that are the problem, not the motor. Plenty of locos have had their lights cease to function after some time in service but I hear of very few motors burning out so long as they survive the first hour or so.
Agreed. As per my class 55.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline railsquid

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2017, 11:36:17 am »
The instructions say that you should not use an 00 controller because you may not get fine control of your model.

I notice that using a 'non N tuned controller' can invalidate your 'No Quibble Guarantee' so all in all it's rather confusing   ???

I'll stick with my Bachmann trainset controllers.

 :NGaugersRule:

Thank you for this post.  It is interesting to me as I am thinking of purchasing a Dapol locomotive.  At about the time Chris was submitting his post I was in the Train Set Room with a 12v Voltmeter testing the output from one of the Kato controllers on my US 'N' Scale layout.  'Full scale deflection' as I recall my physics teacher saying a good few decades ago. Now, if the Kato controller is not 'tuned' for 'N' gauge, I don't know what is!

It does apparently output up to 14 volts (the red section at the upper end of the scale, where I seldom venture). Works fine with stock from many different makers and production eras, I assume the various Dapol failures while running it (2 complete failures, miscellaneous light failures) were down to issues with the Dapol locos not the controller.
"Eigatani Tetsudo" - Japanese and other trains (planning), featuring:

Offline dodger

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2017, 12:04:39 pm »
The early Dapol locos only require 2-3 Volts to run at a realistic speed. The only later Dapol loco I have is a Class 73 and this needed a modification to my controller to raise the open circuit voltage from 8 to 12 volts. The reduced voltage gives finer control.

The only time my locos run on full voltage is when Grandson goes made. I have yet to have a motor failure on a Dapol loco.

On most of the controllers I have used the open circuit the rail voltage is less than the open circuit voltage due to voltdrop within the controller.

Dodger

Online silly moo

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2017, 12:15:05 pm »
I think that Dapol may be being cautious because as a worst case scenario, someone, possibly a grandson might go mad and want to see how fast grandpa's trains can go!! 
High speed running flat out for a long time would probably burn out most motors. In my experience that kind of high speed running usually results in derailments long before possible motor burn out. 
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 02:00:01 pm by silly moo »

Offline sprogman

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2017, 01:07:35 pm »
Pulse power controllers may well peak at 12V or more, but of course the motor "sees" an average voltage based on the duty cycle being applied to give a certain speed.

The problem is that pulse power controllers generally use quite low frequency (100s of Hz or less) and it's this that can be damaging to small, especially coreless, motors that do not have the mass of metal in them to act as a heatsink. The motor inductance does average the pulses effectively. The peak currents at the start of each pulse can also damage delicate brushes in coreless motors.

I seem to recall some controversy over statements from Farish about controllers when they started fitting coreless motors.

Similar problems happened with early DCC decoders that used low frequency PWM to drive the motors and caused damage to coreless motors. Modern DCC decoders use frequencies in the kHz range where the averaging effect due to the motor inductance is much more effective.

Andrew
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 01:09:34 pm by sprogman »

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2017, 01:36:58 pm »
For the standard 12V Super-creep motors, I always disconnect the driveshafts and run these in at full power on a Gaugemaster W controller for 1/2 hour each way - there have never been any problems, other than already known damaged or faulty motors.

These will happily run over-volted - the current consumption is low enough that the motor heating on these controllers is no problem either.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Online silly moo

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2017, 01:58:42 pm »
Do you think some of the older motors are 9v? I just wonder where the person at Dapol got the idea from.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Are Dapol locos 9v?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2017, 02:05:13 pm »
I think the Terrier motor may be 9V, but with suitable buffer resistors/diodes (not sure which) it runs on standard 12V.

That may be the confusion.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

 

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