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Author Topic: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning  (Read 1216 times)

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Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 02:30:55 pm »
Afternoon all,
Firstly thanks to everyone for the welcome, much appreciated :) Those who have looked in and not commented, thats fine, hope your able to look in again and have enjoyed the visit so far! 

I'm slowly getting to grips with the SCARM software, so as soon as I can get a track plan put together, I'll post it.  Im thinking I may try and redraw the base layout plan (i.e. which bits go where) and post that initially, so people have an idea of what I'm doing and thinking.

I've looked at the N-Brass and wow, yes their two and four track gantries look superb, and being etched brass should be durable and stiff too, so thats answered one question!  Im thinking guitar wire will probably work best for the actual OHL knitting, need to try and get the right look.

In terms of gradients, I'm thinking that baseboard, to the bottom of the board above needs to be a minimum of 50mm - 60mm would probably be better, so on the premise of 1 in 40 - thats a steady grade of 1mm rise for every 4mm travelling (if I'm right) which is 2,400mm, or nearly 8ft.  That works, as I was thinking of 10-12ft for the grade, which if my maths works is 1 in 61 climb, which hopefully should work ok.  Part of that may be on a slight curve, but I'm looking at 900mm radius curves (3ft)  wherever possible, so its gentle and the extra length should be ok - I hope!

I have to say, I'm very impressed with how the N gauge market has developed, and the level of detail that has improved no end. Remarkable given the size of these things.  I am a little concerned that I'm going to find N too small, but having seen some layouts, I think its the ability to model the railway in the landscape that diminishes that concern and makes the whole model seem more realistic somehow.

I've responded to the individual comments in the next reply, to save clogging things up, hope thats ok.

Cheers
Rich

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 02:32:10 pm »
Individual replies....

Jacowin80: I've had a look at the C&M Models website, but the Pendolino isn't listed on their Revolution page - I'll keep looking.  Looking at the Revolution website I don't think they've actually been delivered yet, so hopefully some may appear once the deliveries have started. Might have to email Revolution.

Newportnobby: Thanks for the heads up on Deansmoor - I have looked at that before but another look at the wiring was useful!  Some handy hints in the text too.  The video of Burshaw North Western is superb, will be having another look at that!

John P: I'd be interested to take a look at Bolton Road, if you can give me a link to it.  Although thinking about it I presume the search should show it up too.  What are you doing now I your 'train shed'? Oh dear, frying a 66 doesn't sound good! A 3% grade is about 1 in 33 I think, so hopefully my plans won't end up frying anything :(. As for DCC controller, I want to make use of some DCC electronics, and I bought a DCC setup previously for my OO and O gauge exploits, and really like it - Its a Digitrax system, so shall be staying with that one!  I think we have Digitrains at Lincoln, who I'm told are really good - they are only about 40 minutes away by car, so a wander in there may be called for some time - and there's a Toy & Train Fair coming up a week on Sunday at Lincolnshire showground, which I may have a wander too.

Bealman: Thanks for your kind words, guess your coming into summer down 'under now! Thanks for the welcome and the incentive :). On the topic of wires, it think its going to be trial and error thing.  To me the, I can understand why people don't put the wires up in N gauge, for the reasons your mention or on exhibition layouts it has to be detachable extra, but its just looks wrong to me - I may change my mind on that when I come to do it myself!!!  But I want to try and get it right - one of the problems with any model railway of course is that video and still photographs show up far more that is missing, than just looking at it with the naked eye.

njee20: Thanks for that roundup of items.  The N gauge scene has changed so much since I last dabbled in it - although that was 25 years ago  :o. So learning what is what and who does what is one of the big things I think.  I want to try and get the track layout sorted and at least some track laid before I start acquiring stock tho! Well best laid plans and all that.

Vonzack: Mark, thank you ever so much for the detailed reply.  Im very fortunate to have a large space accessible to me, thats for sure! I'll take a look at the rmWeb blog you mentioned.  I've no problem, in theory at least, of fitting the DCC decoders or hard-wiring them, although that 90 sounds like its a job better done by an expert! Im thinking of maybe four 90s - to be double-headed on two Freightliner sets. So might need to find somebody to deal with those for me!  Where there's space, I'm happy to deal with those myself - and given my O gauge DCC dabblings, I'm more inclined to go for a DCC Ready loco, and fit a Zimo chip with Paul Chetter's sounds (where possible). I am a fan of the Zimo's given previous experience, although I guess space could be the big issue with sound, so it may be better to just stick with DCC control I guess.

Cheers all

Rich

Offline njee20

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 02:43:14 pm »
Probably wise to not start acquiring too much stock just yet, but be aware a lot of product runs are very small (more so than OO), so if you see something you're best moving now.

Revolution is two people - Ben (Ben A) and (red_death) who are both on here (Ben's already replied to your thread) - you're quite right that the Pendos aren't quite here yet, and there will definitely be a few surplus ones up for sale when they do turn up. It's just how much of a premium you pay. Revolution will only produce what they get orders for, so if you're interested in any of their forthcoming models I'd strongly suggest you order now, even if it means sticking it in a box for a while until you have somewhere to run it.


Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 02:52:22 pm »
Guys,
Can I just mention, I'm staggered that over 150 people have looked into this thread in less than 24 hours!  Thanks guys.

Excuse the rough drawing (it doesn't get much rougher!) but this should give you all a bit of an idea of what I've been trying to put into works.



The dotted lines, signify track that is out of sight, although id make sure I could get to it if needed.  The station area, based on the track layout at Stafford, would be on the upper level, potentially with some single-ended storage sidings below to make use of the space.  The bottom of the drawing you look at the above diagram, aims to recreate some of the Fell area around Shap/Penrith - fields, cuttings, trees, streams, very little else!  This base board is 2ft wide, so I think losing 4" for the two hidden tracks at the back, should give some nice smooth 'S' bend style curves for a double track main line.  The four track section finishing between the station and the fell area.

I've noted a connection from a couple of loop sidings (on the top of the centre bit) onto a possible future steelworks branch, the works exchange sidings sitting above the fiddle yard - should I want it, this will give me the ability to shunt and swap steel train formations around - but would be the last bit to be added.  Moving left from the loop sidings and steelworks branch access, that section would use just a small section of the baseboard probably 6-8" and I'm thinking something like Roade cutting, given that most photos of the layout would be taken from higher up, because of the size of the camera lens, then a gradually deepening cutting a gives a reason for the tunnel mouth at the left hand end and also tall bridges would naturally give that view point.

EDIT: Just had a quick work out and I think, very roughly, to complete one circuit would be around 139 feet, so that is 42,367mm - now if I'm working this correctly, dividing by 2 (2mm to the foot) gives a scale 21,183.5 feet, which is just over four scale miles?  Does that sound right??

All comments, thoughts, criticisms welcome.  It could change yet, a lot will be decided once I get the track-layout worked out.  My aim isn't to cover all the viewable baseboards with track, more to model the railway passing through a town and fell area, so the surroundings are critical to creating that impression.

Rich
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 03:00:57 pm by NW2017, Reason: Added length of a circuit. »

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 02:53:11 pm »
Probably wise to not start acquiring too much stock just yet, but be aware a lot of product runs are very small (more so than OO), so if you see something you're best moving now.

Revolution is two people - Ben (Ben A) and (red_death) who are both on here (Ben's already replied to your thread) - you're quite right that the Pendos aren't quite here yet, and there will definitely be a few surplus ones up for sale when they do turn up. It's just how much of a premium you pay. Revolution will only produce what they get orders for, so if you're interested in any of their forthcoming models I'd strongly suggest you order now, even if it means sticking it in a box for a while until you have somewhere to run it.

Hmm, sounds like sound advice!  I'll take that on board, thanks.

Rich

Online Intercity

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2017, 03:18:26 pm »
I too can recommend the revolution stuff, and I also missed out on the Pendolino order deadline (got back into the British outline too late to order), they did mention on their website not to email them asking about surplus Pendos, any extra they get through cancelled orders will be posted about in due course, the other projects they have are well worth a look, and rule one modeling may apply to enjoy all of them.

I'm set to go broke just with the 321/320 units, and still want more, always keep in mind they are made to order, after that it's  buyer beware on the secondhand market, the earlier the better as your price is cheaper, and they get all the support they need, more details and Q&A in the crowdfunding section on here.

I have plans for a Rugby style layout, but construction is slow (revolutions keep taking my construction money  :D ) so will watch how you do with interest.

Offline newportnobby

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2017, 03:46:23 pm »
@NW2017
I can't fault your maths, Rich. That'll give your stock a smashing run to stretch their legs on.

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2017, 09:36:32 pm »
Cheers guys. I think Iím going to have to place an order for a couple of Class 92s from Revolution, although it would be nice to know the cost before doing so, same goes with their wagon fleet - I can see an expensive few months coming up!

The have a trawl around the Toy & Train Fair next week at Lincoln. If I could pick a loco and four or five wagons up to use for testing that could be a good start.

Can anyone tell me, do the lights work on N gauge locos with DCC?

Iíve also read on another forum about a chap that has laid his track, without track joiners and says everything runs fine - each piece of rail has a link to the DCC bus, and is fixed to the baseboard with superglue. Has anyone else any experience of this way of working? It sound logical, but I worry about the track moving as it expands?

Rich

Offline newportnobby

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2017, 09:47:34 pm »

Iíve also read on another forum about a chap that has laid his track, without track joiners and says everything runs fine - each piece of rail has a link to the DCC bus, and is fixed to the baseboard with superglue. Has anyone else any experience of this way of working? It sound logical, but I worry about the track moving as it expands?

Rich

Many folks think each piece of track should have a dropper to the bus so I guess rail joiners do become superfluous. I have also read on this very forum that it's not so much the track that moves with temperature variation but the baseboard materials.
Attaching the track to the baseboard with superglue sounds both OTT and rather expensive. Copydex seems to get the vote as, with warm water and a palette knife, it can be lifted at a later date if required.

Offline njee20

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2017, 09:54:04 pm »
Prices for all Revolution models are on their website.

I was interested by the idea of no rail joiners at all on Crofton (presume it's the layout you've seen?) - if all your curves are very gentle and your track laying is good then it should work. If not though you're setting yourself up for a lot of trouble for a minor cosmetic benefit.

Offline Ben A

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2017, 10:02:50 pm »
H Rich,

Others on here have been very kind about Revolution models - and your plan is exactly the sort of layout where a Pendolino could really stretch its legs!

If you are interested in one then please email us via the website - we are putting together a list of anyone who might be after one (quite a few names already, to be fair) as there should be a few spare due to cancellations, and in one case a customer's unexpected passing.

C&M and Collett's both ordered some from us but may be sold out now.

To avoid any further thread hijack, there are threads on RM Web for all our models - feel free to ask us anything there.

Cheers

Ben A.



Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2017, 11:32:07 pm »
Prices for all Revolution models are on their website.

I was interested by the idea of no rail joiners at all on Crofton (presume it's the layout you've seen?) - if all your curves are very gentle and your track laying is good then it should work. If not though you're setting yourself up for a lot of trouble for a minor cosmetic benefit.

Thanks for that reminder to check their website - I was looking at C&M Models website which just shows them as £0.00!

Yes it was Crofton I saw, still think iíd be happier with railjoiners. Although having said that each rail will still be connected to the DCC bus!

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2017, 11:51:48 pm »
H Rich,

Others on here have been very kind about Revolution models - and your plan is exactly the sort of layout where a Pendolino could really stretch its legs!

If you are interested in one then please email us via the website - we are putting together a list of anyone who might be after one (quite a few names already, to be fair) as there should be a few spare due to cancellations, and in one case a customer's unexpected passing.

C&M and Collett's both ordered some from us but may be sold out now.

Hi Ben,
Thanks for your kind comments. You have mail as Microsoft used to say!

Well done, with what your doing btw.

Cheers
Rich

Offline jpendle

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2017, 12:02:38 am »
Do lights work on N Gauge loco's

Yes and no. All the locos I own have lights and they can be turned on and off with DCC. However because of the limitations of 6 pin decoders and the models wiring you can't just turn on the front lights, both front and back are always on or off.

Regards,

John P

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2017, 12:38:55 pm »
Yes and no. All the locos I own have lights and they can be turned on and off with DCC. However because of the limitations of 6 pin decoders and the models wiring you can't just turn on the front lights, both front and back are always on or off.

John,
Thanks for that, thatís useful to know. Having been researching DCC Sound a bit more, Iím now thinking that I may just go DCC and not bother with the sound route in N gauge, as Iíve realised that some locos/units donít have space for the decoder and speaker. I think Sound is one of those things where it adds realism, but also is very noticeable when itís missing if some are fitted and some arenít.

Also been researching couplings. Iím not a fan of the standard N gauge couplings, but also will need some form of an automatic setup for the fiddle yard. I was thinking about Kadeeís but they donít seem to do an N version, however am I right in thinking the MicroTrains couplings are the same thing? I gather Dapol has a version out as well, has anyone used them??

If there is anyone using automatic/remote couplings in N, Iíd be pleased to hear your experiences. Both pro and con.

Thanks guys for all your help.

Rich

 

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