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Author Topic: Newbie track planning advice  (Read 1966 times)

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Offline funkyorange

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2017, 09:20:07 pm »
I all, Can anyone help please?

I have two outstanding, questions, is it possible to still use points but manually change them? Would this still be doable for a first time build? I intend to perhaps add motors as a second stage build.

Second, I have looked at the plan and tried to match the part number to PECO 55 track using the site Hattons, but it seems not all the track is available for example ST-18F R3 - I used the search and can only find ST-18F R4 i.e http://www.hattons.co.uk/31099/Peco_Products_ST_18_N_Setrack_No_4_radius_single_standard_curve/StockDetail.aspx , based in the UK does anyone have any good supplier recommendations? Or have I missed something here?

Offline Sprintex

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2017, 09:56:44 pm »
Any track with an ST prefix will not be code 55, it's code 80 Setrack ;)

3rd Radius curve is ST16 :thumbsup:

Finescale (code 55) track only comes as points, crossings, slips, and flexible track, no fixed straights or curves.

If you're getting these part numbers from the plan posted by themadhippy on the first page then I wonder what planning software he used as sectional finescale track doesn't exist and the part numbers don't  make sense ???


Paul
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 10:10:17 pm by Sprintex »

Offline themadhippy

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2017, 10:13:00 pm »
I think youve found a bug or  2 with scram,as well as including code80 stuff in with code 55 they've got  confused with curves,  st18 is a radius 4 curve ,but scram thinks  its an r3 curve,nothing you cant overcome by using flexi track for the curves.Before you spend out on track download the point templates from http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=tempc55 and make sure it really will fit

Offline Sprintex

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2017, 10:31:40 pm »
Personally I wouldn't recommend using flexitrack for a layout with such tight curves, especially to a new starter in the hobby  :no:


Paul

Offline funkyorange

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2017, 12:28:53 am »
@Trent did comment it might be possible with KATO track? - only a measured guess though by him...

"The space you've got should fit a loop within a loop. I can tell you it would definitely work with Kato 315 curves on the outer loop and 282 curves on the inner loop. You'd need the short straight power feed pieces, two on each loop, which would 'push' the loop outward slightly but you'll have space. "

How did the guy in the IKEA hack do it and what track did he use? I'd be happy to use this layout..Would this layout have been achieved with no flexitrack?! To me it looks like KATO track? I have done a bit of research and can't find KATO flexitrack..

Thanks for the warning about difficulty, but I'd like to explore this option if its any way achievable!!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 12:30:36 am by funkyorange »

Offline Trent

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2017, 04:46:21 pm »
The Kato curves will definitely work as I've set up a double loop like that once - the 315 curves (if arranged into a circle - without the power feed pieces) will fit into a space 70cm across, with the 282s sitting inside that outer ring. Adding the power feeds (which are 62mm long straight pieces) will make that circle into a slight oval but would still fit. And give you a straight piece somewhere, which would be useful for getting the train railed in the first place! 

Both Kato and Peco points have a manual switch ....



... like so, to physically change direction of the points back and forth, so you don't literally need the motors. And the surface you'll be building on sounds like it's going to be possible to slide out from under the glass? But then, you'd still have to do that every time you wanted to change points. 

For me, it looks like there are three options, any of which might work:

1) Have points in this layout and install point motors. Pro: you get convenient operating points in. Con: difficult! Or at least difficult to get right first time, and takes you down the rabbit hole of figurin' out point motor installation. A lot to take on right now I reckon.     

2) Have points in this layout and install a rod in tube, guitar string, or some other little mechanical jiggery to pull the points back and forth from outside the 'box' that is the table and glass top. Pro: you get convenient operating points in. Con: difficult, as above. Slightly less difficult though, because doesn't need electronics.

(The simplest way to do this is a thin piece of wire bent into a hook at one end, which passes into the layout from outside the box through a drilled hole, hooks on to the point switch (see the little hole on the Peco points above?) and then when you push or pull on the wire the switch moves. Make this fine enough and that wire can sit in a tube which is then covered in scenery so as to be less obtrusive. All depends if this sounds like fun or hassle. For me, 3 yrs in to the hobby, it sounds like fun but I think I might have found it hassle back at the
beginning.) 
 
3) Don't use points this time around, focus on the more immediately rewarding stuff like scenery, and, if the baseboard slides out, other baseboards with other scenes can be made at a later date and swapped in ...

Offline Trent

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2017, 05:25:55 pm »
P.S. Loops versus points is always something of a 'classic problem' in the world of track planning, at every level.

Offline funkyorange

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2017, 07:03:13 pm »
Ok great thanks for the detailed response.   My initial idea was aim for the best possible design fully loaded and build in stages to the end goal.

I think though on consideration it might be easier (and ultimately something I finish!) to do a simple two loop one inside the other and like you say concentrate on the scenery. So go with option 3.

Then if it works well and i'm not fed up(!) with it then Ill aim to do a new design with electric points - like you say I can always get another baseboard and work on it separately - didn't even consider this!

So I think Im pretty much set now, I have two more questions and then Ill try and get this started!

1) Choosing to use KATO as apposed to PECO 55 or 80 (im sure this has been asked before!) will this limit me? Could I upgrade KATO with electric points for example?

2) Being happy with the loop inside loop, would you recommend I just purchase the the parts and start building - or should I go back and do a design in anyrail? - If so can I choose KATO pieces to model with? Does Graham Farnish countryside coal track mix with this?

Ok more questions than 2! Thanks in advance :)




Offline REGP

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2017, 07:28:40 pm »

1) Choosing to use KATO as apposed to PECO 55 or 80 (im sure this has been asked before!) will this limit me? Could I upgrade KATO with electric points for example?

2) Being happy with the loop inside loop, would you recommend I just purchase the the parts and start building - or should I go back and do a design in anyrail? - If so can I choose KATO pieces to model with? Does Graham Farnish countryside coal track mix with


All Kato points come prefiitted with motors and wiring.

Anyrail allows you to select the full range of Kato track and work with that.

Kato make a special piece of track called Snap Ttrack Conversion Track (20-045) which allows you to connect their track to other makes, which I assume includes Graham Farish Track.

Hope this helps.

Ray

Offline Trent

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2017, 07:32:55 pm »
Let me have a check and see what the equivalent to Kato 315/282 is in other trackets, as you wouldn't necessarily need to use Kato. Uno momento ... 

Offline Trent

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2017, 07:40:45 pm »
So it turns out you can make the required curves, or close enough, out of Peco setrack pieces - for the outer curve you'd want ST-16s, and on the inner curve, ST-14s. These should fit in with the track out of the box, whereas Kato has the ballast moulded on to the track and so ends up with a height difference compared to other brands.   

Offline Trent

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2017, 07:53:12 pm »
The only thing that strikes me is, looking at the Graham Farish box there, it looks as though there's only one power feed running out from the controller and you'd either want to make or get hold of a splitter to send power to both tracks. This is where my knowledge runs out, as I only know Kato - does anyone else know the best way of going about this?

Offline dannyboy

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2017, 09:36:05 pm »
To me it looks like KATO track? I have done a bit of research and can't find KATO flexitrack.

Kato do not make flexitrack, however, both curves and straights can be made a bit flexible by the careful use of a fine hacksaw or similar, just make a series of cuts from the underneath of the plastic shoulder, which I have done and added a bit of flexibility to the track. Bob Fifer www.fiferhobby.com has a YouTube video showing how to do this - I will post a link later when I can find it. Also, I have found that the 'high' shoulder is quite easy to disguise.
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.

Offline funkyorange

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2017, 10:19:14 pm »
Right ok that makes sense its KATO track.

I think Ill stick to PECO track then on balance it makes sense to build on the type I have since it should be able to double loop in the baseboard size I have using the part numbers mentioned.

Right so i'm going to get my hands dirty and have a go in AnyRail to get a plan sorted then get the pieces ordered.

So the only question remains is that of the splitter. The controller used is this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Bachmann-Trains-Command-Digital-Controller/dp/B0006KSOA2/ref=pd_sim_21_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3WT9S68Y4K2XCDEW7PBV

I see this in a question:

"you can control multiple dcc units with one device and one non dcc unit. you could use a second controller on a second track circuit. you could have other addressable units linked to a second style controller that will slave itself to this one. "

Does that mean it can or cant split the power?


Offline georgehgv

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Re: Newbie track planning advice
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2017, 08:42:05 am »
I think youve found a bug or  2 with scram,as well as including code80 stuff in with code 55 they've got  confused with curves,  st18 is a radius 4 curve ,but scram thinks  its an r3 curve,nothing you cant overcome by using flexi track for the curves.Before you spend out on track download the point templates from http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=tempc55 and make sure it really will fit


Proves to me that Scarm is crap. Glad I did my design in Anyrail, far better product, simple to use and it works.  ;D. Good luck with your venture
Geominster was my first project which has now been dismantled.

Having learnt so much from Geominster this is the new project.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30850.0

The original layout progress here
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18319.msg184399#msg184399

Visit my new website here
http://georgehgv.wix.com/geominster

 

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