WR coaches

Started by Big bad John, December 09, 2016, 01:55:08 PM

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railsquid

Quote from: newportnobby on December 09, 2016, 08:52:17 PM
From page 21 onwards of this site you can match running numbers by Farish reference number.
FWIW I was cataloguing my coaches last night, including writing down the running number (mainly so I can match the coach via the catalogue number to the correct box should I ever need to), anyway I noticed for my maroon and blue/grey coaches I've got a hopeless mix of regions... but as I had to take off my glasses and squint closely at the number to read it (and my eyesight isn't all that bad) I don't think I will lose much sleep over the mix.

D1042 Western Princess

Maybe not exactly what you had in mind but if you are looking for something a bit different many branch lines of that era were still running ex GWR B-Sets with diesel haulage and one or two even employed an 03 as the power unit! Not all branch lines had DMUs when steam vanished.
If it's not a Diesel Hydraulic then it's not a real locomotive.

Big bad John

Thanks johnlambert those photos are really interesting as in that it was still possible to see crimson and cream coaches on an express in 1962 at least. I had previously understood that they would have all gone by then. My understanding that the chocolate cream rake's would have been split up by 1962 seems to be true going by the photos of the cornishman with more maroon than crimson and cream coaches. So basically I could have a good old 10p mix up and It wouldn't be out of place. I had thought a 52 would be pushing it a bit for then but again the photographs don't lie. Now I can build up a collection of coaching stock and be able to mix and match to my heart's content. A 3 car set of suburbans may be acquired after crimbo to add even more variety.
:thankyousign:

Big bad John

That's interesting western princess. I've got a dapol get b set I was going to sell but I may look into converting It to br if it's not too difficult.

dodger

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on December 10, 2016, 07:14:29 AM
Maybe not exactly what you had in mind but if you are looking for something a bit different many branch lines of that era were still running ex GWR B-Sets with diesel haulage and one or two even employed an 03 as the power unit! Not all branch lines had DMUs when steam vanished.
Have you any examples of branch lines using 03's as it could provide an extra dimension for my railway. Apart from the Upwell tramway I have only managed to find examples of last minute substitutions for failures or on railtours.

Dodger

johnlambert

Quote from: Big bad John on December 10, 2016, 07:46:28 AM
Thanks johnlambert those photos are really interesting as in that it was still possible to see crimson and cream coaches on an express in 1962 at least. I had previously understood that they would have all gone by then. My understanding that the chocolate cream rake's would have been split up by 1962 seems to be true going by the photos of the cornishman with more maroon than crimson and cream coaches. So basically I could have a good old 10p mix up and It wouldn't be out of place. I had thought a 52 would be pushing it a bit for then but again the photographs don't lie. Now I can build up a collection of coaching stock and be able to mix and match to my heart's content. A 3 car set of suburbans may be acquired after crimbo to add even more variety.
:thankyousign:

Thanks Big bad John.  I'm a firm believer that there's no substitute for looking at photos of real trains as a guide for your models.

The usual formation for BR Suburban coaches was Second, Brake Second and Composite, with extra coaches added for peak time services.  You can see the first two coaches in this picture.
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrl1439.htm

But you could get some odd formations as in the picture below (Full brake, Auto Coach and mainline brake coach (possibly a Mk1 BCK).  If I'd seen that on a model without seeing the photo I'd have assumed someone was having a laugh.
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls2121.htm

longbow

Quotemany branch lines of that era were still running ex GWR B-Sets with diesel haulage

Surely not "many" - the WR did not have a surplus of diesel locos in 1962 and most branch services would have gone straight from steam to DMUs. But I'd love to see a pic if you have one.

railsquid

Quote from: johnlambert on December 10, 2016, 08:36:05 AM
The usual formation for BR Suburban coaches was Second, Brake Second and Composite, with extra coaches added for peak time services.  You can see the first two coaches in this picture.
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrl1439.htm
Oh excellent, among my very random acquisitions are a couple of maroon Mk1 suburbans, looks like I can use them at the lower end of the time dial.

martyn

The photo of 6858 possibly raises a question or two; the loco headcode is class G 'light engine or engine with one or two brakevans attached'. Could this be an empty stock train (possibly with incorrect headcode?)?
The East Suffolk line had daily 'stock trains' in each direction in which any combination of coaching stock or vacuum braked wagons could run; presumably the coaching stock was being taken to balance a previous working, needed repairs, or was needed to for a new working.
Could this photo be similar?
Also, if you need to renumber stock to WR rather than the other regions, it is easy to do with transfers from at least a couple of sources. I think that your latest proposal has too much first class accommodation; I would substitute a BSK for one of the BCK. ( I can't find the original, but I think BCK were originally built for use as though coaches on multiple portion trains, eg the ACE).
Martyn

D1042 Western Princess

Quote from: dodger on December 10, 2016, 08:25:58 AM
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on December 10, 2016, 07:14:29 AM
Maybe not exactly what you had in mind but if you are looking for something a bit different many branch lines of that era were still running ex GWR B-Sets with diesel haulage and one or two even employed an 03 as the power unit! Not all branch lines had DMUs when steam vanished.
Have you any examples of branch lines using 03's as it could provide an extra dimension for my railway. Apart from the Upwell tramway I have only managed to find examples of last minute substitutions for failures or on railtours.

Dodger

Hello Dodger, two examples come to mind. See the lower photo on this piece from the Highworth Historical Society and the other was one in South Wales, the Pembrey and Burry Port line which used 03s but whether with B Sets I can't be sure.
But there is a prototype example... and where its happened once...
http://www.highworthhistoricalsociety.co.uk/highworth-archives/highworth-light-railway.html
Also some branch lines in Cornwall (the Helston Branch, for example) used D63XX haulage with traditional GWR branch line trains for a few months in the late 1950s/early 1960s until DMUs took over.
If it's not a Diesel Hydraulic then it's not a real locomotive.

Big bad John

Martyn I think I can get transfers from the ngs shop but there seems to be loads of different sheets I wouldn't have a clue what to order. How would you remove the old transfers without doing any damage to the paint work. As for the coaches I may well take your advice or change the FK for a CK. I intend to build up a surplus stock of various coaches and liveries so that I can swap and change now I know coach type is more important than colour.

D1042 Western Princess

Sorry, my previous post was made in haste - I should have said too that the 03s (nicknamed 'Sugar Puffs' on the Highworth line as a very similar loco type were pictured on boxes of the breakfast cereal at that time) took over the workings in 1960 and powered the passenger service until closure of the route.
If it's not a Diesel Hydraulic then it's not a real locomotive.

EtchedPixels

Quote from: Big bad John on December 09, 2016, 01:55:08 PM
I'm looking to get a rake of coaches suitable for western region around the 1962 year and was wondering if the following would be suitable.
All mk1s bsk maroon ck choc/cream ck maroon sk maroon bg choc/cream
I thought about putting an Hawksworth into the mix but I've only been able to find them in gwr or crimson/cream. I only want a five or six rake max. Suggestions please as to what to keep in and what to replace with something else.  :hmmm:

The chocolate and cream Mark 1 stock was only maintained in small volumes and in theory for the named trains. In fact it's most useful for modelling railtours post BR era. Maroon and maybe some shabby Crimson/Cream would be in keeping.

The suburbans didn't last very long in their original form, most of them being converted into car flats.

Catering stock would have been unusual in short trains. Until the modern era even the long distance trains that split would often drop the dining car, for example the trains into Cornwall used to drop the heavy dining car and some coaches at Plymouth. That's one reason they had to lengthen all the platforms - keeping fixed formations made Cornish trains much longer than in the past.

Hawksworth's would have been unusual by then and out of favour. In fact for the main London to Penzance route I would imagine you'd be more likely to have seen a refurbished Gresley buffet than a GWR coach. There was a very concerted effort to get rid of the old coaches.

I've never seen any pictures of B sets being diesel hauled except for weird cases and certainly if you look at the autocoach services they went straight to DMU, usually with an improved timetable and happier customers.. The BP&GV never used B sets. In fact if you stuck a B set down the BP&GV line it would have gotten stuck under the bridges. All the BP&GV passenger stock was either custom, or GWR metro-gauge four wheel stock some of which lasted until the early 1950s when the passenger service was removed. The BP&GV did have some spectacular and unique trains - the low bridges required shunters with cut down roofs, and brake vans with the stove pipe lower. Because of regular flooding of the lower part of the line (which was originally a canal) BR decided to use mechanical transmission locomotives for the job, even though 03's were underpowered. As a result rakes of HAA hoppers would travel the line at little over walking pace with 2 or 3 class 03 shunters providing motive power.

There were certainly groups of lines that were impassable to anything larger than a shunter, but except for the Highworth works trains (not public passenger services strictly) the others I think all simply lost passenger service before that point or never had it.

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

D1042 Western Princess

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 10, 2016, 01:51:38 PM


There were certainly groups of lines that were impassable to anything larger than a shunter, but except for the Highworth works trains (not public passenger services strictly) the others I think all simply lost passenger service before that point or never had it.

Alan

Strictly speaking, you're right of course, Alan, but I think that if it happened on the prototype somewhere in the Region then there can be no serious bar to it happening on my/our routes, unless we are building and operating a specific section of line as a museum quality piece of course.
My point is not that 03 were used with B Sets on workmen's trains but that B Sets and 03s have historically worked in real life carrying passengers and therefore would not be out of place as a working on a fictitious branch line of the kind some 99 in every 100 of us tend to model.
If it's not a Diesel Hydraulic then it's not a real locomotive.

Chris in Prague

Quote from: longbow on December 10, 2016, 08:40:38 AM
Quotemany branch lines of that era were still running ex GWR B-Sets with diesel haulage

Surely not "many" - the WR did not have a surplus of diesel locos in 1962 and most branch services would have gone straight from steam to DMUs. But I'd love to see a pic if you have one.

The Highworth branch used a local Class 03 (as they became) to haul a BR livery B Set on the Workmen's trains to / from Swindon Works. (I have a scanned picture.)

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