!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: The Train Shed Project  (Read 66111 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mitch99

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1650 on: November 12, 2017, 10:16:25 pm »
Those Metcalfe buildings are really coming along Laurence, I’m a big fan of the kits and must say yours look very neatly constructed.

I also paid a visit to the Hull Model Railway Show today, completely agree with you about the two categories of modellers, that said I thought there were some nice layouts on display and had an enjoyable morning.

Offline Innovationgame

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 26531
  • Posts: 1198
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1651 on: November 13, 2017, 05:18:12 pm »
First thing this morning, I started on the gable building, while running 80119 again.  I didn’t run very well at first, so I ran it at (normal) full speed for a bit and that improved it a bit.  I managed to fit the doors and chimney to the gable building before table tennis.

Later, I persevered with 80119 while pressing on with the building.  By the end of the session, I had completed the building, including wall capping and ridge tiles (including the pair next door) and connected all the houses together.  I moved some of the construction tools and bits and moved the two terraces along to what I think will be their final positions. 



I am not sure where the workers’ cottages will end up.  They could be to the left of the houses, towards the London Road Bridge, backing onto the milk depot platform or further along, the other side of the milk depot.

While proceeding with the building, I continued with running 80119.  First, I turned its maximum speed setting back up from 40 to 120.  It thundered around for a while without a problem.  Then I returned it to normal and ran it continuously.  Finally, I ran it in its normal stopping and starting pattern.  After a while, it behaved perfectly again.  The temperature in the Train Shed was only about 11C when I went there, so I put the heater on for a while to lift it.  I think I can characterise the problem as follows.

1.   It affects slow running locos (i.e. those with a relatively low top speed);
2.   Low temperatures make it worse;
3.   Running for a while improves the performance;
4.   A short spell of high speed running seems to make a big difference;
5.   Each of the locos affected seems to have its own favourite trouble spots.

Of course, it may be that there are little track issues, such as minor alignment adjustments, undulations, etc and each loco manages some of them but not all.  I may be faced with running all the problem locos at high speed for a few minutes before a running session to ‘blow away the cobwebs’.  However, I think I will manage ok in the main.
With kind regards
Laurence

Offline newportnobby

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+54)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 26060
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1652 on: November 13, 2017, 08:09:08 pm »
As a control experiment can I request you take your most troublesome loco into the house overnight and only run it in the shed when the shed has warmed up to what you'd consider 'normal' running conditions?
I'd be most interested in the result.

Online port perran

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7140
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1653 on: November 13, 2017, 08:18:49 pm »
I think Laurence that you may be right about temperature and it’s something I’ve raised on here before a long while back.
My layouts are in a spare bedroom with no loft space above and, if the heating is off in cold weather, my locomotives can be troublesome.
With the heating on as normal I get no real problems. Anything below about 10 degrees seems ro me to make things sluggish and a bit stop go . Seems to affect steam locos more than diesels though.

It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline newportnobby

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+54)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 26060
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1654 on: November 13, 2017, 08:38:10 pm »
I've lost count of the times when I have visited a show on a Saturday to be told by layout owners all was well at end of Friday set up but it was colder overnight and things took about an hour to warm up the next morning, to the extent they were still having problems at the usual 10 ack emma opening time.

Offline lil chris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23889
  • Posts: 2452
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1655 on: November 13, 2017, 10:52:19 pm »
Well its not surprising a bit of heat helps us all at our ages, I know it helps me with my ex biker joints. But it can be very frustrating having bad running every time you use your layout, I know from experience in my loft even though it has a radiator fitted. I am still having a few problems with some of my loco's, but tonight I have been experimenting with JMRI decoder pro. The difference it has made to my Union Mills is staggering, some definite improvements have been made. I have not finished yet, I only then have to tune the rest of my Locomotive stock.
Lil Chris
My layout here East Lancashire Lines
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29492.0

Offline Innovationgame

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 26531
  • Posts: 1198
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1656 on: November 14, 2017, 06:46:13 am »
Thanks for all the tips advice people (various).  The temperature never falls below 11 or 12C (I have a max and min thermometer and an overnight thermostatic radiator), but I am a great believer in controlled experiments.  I have also seen evidence in reports that the chip (DCC decoder) used can make quite a difference to performance.  In addition, I am not convinced that my Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance is the best controller in the world for sending the correct signals to the locos.  I suspect diesels are better because the pick up from both bogies (except close coupled shunters).  So I will carry on with the experiments and keep you posted.  80119 is not the worst loco: those are 6417 ans 9744, when on the branch, although they are much better on the mainline.  Also, Fothampton Grange and Dicheat Manor, although they run OK, suffer a bit from irregular drawbar pull.  I would also like to carry out some controlled tests on the two slow freight locos, 3846 and 64960.  This may take time and I may resort to fitting different (more expensive) chips in some of the locos.  In the end I would also like a better control system, preferable using a laptop program to control speed and timings (if there is one available). 
But it’s all good fun!  :hmmm:
With kind regards
Laurence

Offline cornish yorkie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1515
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1657 on: November 14, 2017, 07:15:37 am »
Hello, & good morning Laurence watching with interest, hope all goes well
     regards Derek.

Offline Masher69

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 26763
  • Posts: 46
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1658 on: November 14, 2017, 06:45:39 pm »
Re exhibitions I visited the Tyneside exhibition in Newcastle on Saturday and there were two or three having running problems. It is not a big exhibition but there were one or two good ones.

Offline Innovationgame

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 26531
  • Posts: 1198
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1659 on: November 14, 2017, 07:10:53 pm »
Today was not a very successful day.  I began with running 80119, but I had to run it at (normal) full speed to keep it going. While it was running, I cleared up all the building materials and filed them for future use.  Then it was time for the gym, but I have an injury, which I think is an adductor problem.  It means that it is painful to lift my thigh in the forwards direction.  I will be seeing a sports injury man tomorrow, so I hope he will be able to pinpoint the root of the problem.  What this mean is that I was unable to carry out some of Pilates exercises, although I didn’t have any trouble with the strength exercises.

Later this afternoon, 80119 was still not behaving as I would have liked so I though I would put it on the wheel cleaner.  I have a Woodland Scenics Tidy Track wheel cleaner.  It was difficult to get going and sustain wheel rotation, so I added a couple of spots of cleaning fluid to the cleaning pads.  That seemed to do the trick and the wheels spun away in both the forwards and reverse directions.  So I returned it to the track.  After the cleaning session it was terrible.  The only way to get it going and keep it running was to crank up the speed to breakneck speed and set the acceleration to zero.  So I let it run for a while, both in the forwards direction and bunker first.  Meanwhile, I placed the terraced houses and cottages in what I though was a good position to form Lower Marton, with the milk depot as a backdrop.



After that, I persevered with 80119 and gradually managed to reduce the maximum speed and apply a small amount of acceleration.  I also set the Start Voltage to a fairly high level, to see if that would help.  But on the whole, it was not a successful day.  I will have to see what tomorrow brings.
With kind regards
Laurence

Online Skyline2uk

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1534
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Lets preserve at least one HST.....
    • My layout thread, Filton TMD
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1660 on: November 14, 2017, 09:59:58 pm »
Just a quick two pence worth on the cold issue:

I can attest that a long (over-night) “cold-soak” can cause Kato Eurostars to refuse to play ball early in the morning.

I would also like to hear the results of keeping some locos “in house” over-night.

Skyline2uk
LNER A3 and A4....check
Deltic.....check
HST set......surely?!

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=4129.msg46795#msg46795

Offline Innovationgame

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 26531
  • Posts: 1198
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1661 on: November 15, 2017, 06:55:21 pm »
It was a pure running day today.  First thing, I carried on with 80119, but still without improvement.  The overnight temperature in the Train Shed was above 18C, so there should not have been any temperature issues.  I also tried 6417 and 9744, which didn’t perform too badly, apart from 9744 needing a couple of prods to get it going.  Later, I decided that I would run the mainline part of the operational timetable, which allowed me to run 80119 in a round and round with each intermediate passenger in turn.

There was good news and bad news.  The good news was that by the end of the session, I was able to run 80119 at normal speeds with some acceleration (20 seconds instead of the original 30), without any problems.  The bad news is that other locos, which had never had a problem before, started playing up.  In particular, 45572, Eire, which stopped a couple of times on the loop exits and once seemed to struggle to get its train moving, with some wheel spin.  I never did get to the bottom of that, but it didn’t happen again.  Dicheat Manor and Forthampton Grange also played up a little and, the first time I ran 61664 Liverpool, it need a little push to get it going.  Now, bear in mind that none of the track has been used since it was cleaned, apart from that used by 80119 in the last couple of days.

It was clear that, where the problems occurred, the surfaces of the rails were tarnished.  So I set about the offending stretches with my Peco rubbers, which polished them up nicely.  In the end, everything ran OK, but all the track looks a bit tarnished, so I have decided that the culprit is the Tidy Track cleaning system.  It was also the Tidy Track wheel cleaner, with a few drops of cleaning fluid that set 80119 off on its really bad behaviour.  I won’t be using the Tidy track system again.  I managed to run every mainline loco, some went round and round a few times.  I also adjusted the deceleration times on Eire so that it stopped further along the loops because the back of its train was in danger of fouling another train because it stopped too close to the final set of points.  I shall carry on with mainline running until the whole timetable is complete, although I hope to be able to fit in some branch line running, but not to timetable.  The nice thing about the current timetable is that the branch operations are physically separated from the mainline, apart from when trains are actually crossing from the mainline to the milk loop and vice versa.

As soon as I have completed all the mainline operations, I will reclean the track with my Peco rubbers.  At least, when the track is cleaned with them, it stays bright and shiny for a reasonable length of time.
With kind regards
Laurence

Offline newportnobby

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+54)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 26060
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1662 on: November 15, 2017, 08:26:56 pm »
I use the WS Track Tidy rail cleaner but with IPA rather than the WS stuff in the kit. I did use that once and found it left a residue on the track that made my locos spin up so into the bin it went. I bought the WS wheel cleaner as well but have never used it, preferring instead the good old IPA soaked kitchen roll on a piece of track as you can clean rolling stock wheels as well as loco wheels using the same method.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=913.msg7981#msg7981

Offline Mito

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24863
  • Posts: 1593
  • Country: es
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1663 on: November 15, 2017, 08:29:09 pm »
Just a thought. Could humidity be playing a part in the problems? Track doesn't normally tarnish quickly especially when you are running so many trains. I'm not a DCC person but perhaps changing the decoder on the worst running loco might give a clue to the problems.
You know you're getting older when your mind makes commitments your body can't meet.

Offline dannyboy

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25492
  • Posts: 1717
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1664 on: November 15, 2017, 09:06:23 pm »
I have to agree with the thoughts of Mito. The amount of track cleaning you do Laurence, your rails should be shining like a new pin - that or you have polished the rails to nothingness.  ;D
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.

 

Please Support Us!
November Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Nov 30
Total Receipts: £65.00
Above Goal: £10.00
Site Currency: GBP
118% 
November Donations


Advertise Here
anything