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Author Topic: Dapol Maunsell coaches  (Read 36940 times)

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Offline Karhedron

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2014, 09:46:06 pm »
Talisman's post that Dapol will be producing 4-compartment BTK and also the 6-compartment BCK is very good news as these should be ideal for the north cornwall line. BTK-CK-BTK would give a WoE 3-car set such as a portion of the ACE. BTK-BCK would give you a typical 2-car P-set which were the mainstay of local services. Pop one behind an M7 and you are good to go (an O2 would be better but Kernow do not seem to be showing any inclination to invest in a shrink-ray).
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2014, 11:05:05 pm »
A number of 2 sets were formed of 6 compartment  BTK, & BCK, used on the Atlantic coast express, Swanage portion of Weymouth trains and other services to the South and West, other 6 compartment brakes usually BCKs would also be found in the ACE, or at less busy times the Swanage portion could be a single BCK.
Cheers MIKE


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Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2014, 07:27:21 am »
Thank you, Karhedron and Mike. Now, you can see why I was confused. I know the (general) types of Maunsell carriages that I need for the various local and "ACE" sets and the numbers of these types that I would need but was not sure whether Dapol was going to be producing the SPECIFIC (as regards the number of compartments and window configurations) types of Maunsell carriages that I need to make up 2P, 2R, and 3L sets plus the 'loose' all seconds.

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2014, 08:33:40 am »
Hi Chris. With all the chopping and changing, I cans ee why you are confused. We will have to wait until we see the next batch of EPs or decorated samples to know for certain but at the moment it looks like the Dapol Maunsells will be good for the west of england (based on their FB posts).

Fingers crossed.  :angel:
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline talisman56

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2014, 08:47:34 am »
Maunsell Low Window Restriction 4 coaching stock. Per Gould and King:

Diagram 2001 eight-compartment Third: numbers 769-778 (built Eastleigh 7/27-8/27), 783-832 (Eastleigh/BRCW/Metropolitan 3/28-7/28), 2349-55 (Ashford/Eastleigh 12/26-6/27). 802 was damaged by fire 7/35, a new body to D.2008 was built 7/36 on its underframe.
D.2101 four-compartment Third Brake: nos. 3214-3233 (Eastleigh 7/26-10/26), 4055-4062 (Metropolitan 8/28-9/28).
D.2102 six-compartment Third Brake: nos. 4048-4051 (Eastleigh 12/26-2/27).
D.2201 eight-compartment Second (identical to D.2001 TK): nos. 4483-4486 (Ashford 6/27).
D.2251 six-compartment Second Brake (identical to D.2102 BTK): nos. 4481/4482 (Ashford 6/27).
D.2301 seven-compartment (1st/3rd) Composite: nos. 5137-5146 (Eastleigh 7/26-10/26), 5147-5150 (Metropolitan 8/28-9/28).
D.2401 six-compartment (1st/3rd) Composite Brake: nos. 6565-6574 (Eastleigh 8/26).
D.2501 seven-compartment First: nos. 7208-7227 (Eastleigh/Midland 6/27-11/27), 7665-7674 (Ashford/Eastleigh 12/26-3/27).

Of the above, the following were formed in sets, created from new unless otherwise noted:
3-sets 'P' 390-399 (10/26, for London to Plymouth/Torrington/Ilfracombe services): D.2101 BTKs 3214-3233 (in pairs, in order), CKs 5137-5146 (not in order).
3-sets 'P' 445-448 (9/28, as above): D.2102 BTKs 4055-4062 (in pairs, in order), CKs 5147-5150 (in order).
Set 469 (2/27, London-Worthing service): formation BTK-TK-TK-FK-FK-FK-TK-BTK, using 4048/2351/2350/7667/7665/7666/2349/4049.
Set 470 (10/26, London-Eastbourne service until 3/27, then Worthing): formation BTK-TK-FK-FK-FK-FK-TK-BTK, using 4050/2355/7674/7673/7672/7671/2354/4051.
FKs 7218 and 7219 were formed in sets 206 and 207 in 1931; 7211-7213, 7215, 7225, 7230-7231 and 7675-7676 were formed in sets 244-247, 430, 329-330 and 241-242 in 1933; 7216 and 7222 were formed in sets 248 and 327 in 1936. All these 'new' sets were otherwise formed of high-window stock. 7227 was condemned with fire damage, 8/36.

The TKs and (initially) the FKs were loose 'strengther' vehicles for making up trains at periods of heavy demand and could turn up anywhere R4 stock was premitted.
The BCKs were intended for single car through services to the West of England, which effectively meant any branch line west of Salisbury and Bournemouth.
The SK and BSKs were part of the 'pool' of stock for the Newhaven Boat Train, with TKs 2352/2353 and FKs 7668-7670 built at Ashford at the same time. In theory any number of vehicles from the pool (with the BSKs one at each end, of course) would form the Boat Train subject to demand. A Pullman First would be included in the train to provide dining facilities. As the SK/BSKs were outwardly identical to the D.2001 TKs and D.2102 BTKs then the Boat Train could be modelled with suitably rebranded vehicles. An often quoted formation was BSK-Pullman-FK-SK-BSK, with a TK inserted for the 'Night' service.

469 was reduced to 6-cars in 1933, 7666 (to loose) and 7667 (to set 430) being removed; 4049 was replaced by 2789 (a D.2113 high-window 1935 stock BTK) in 1945 due to war damage.
470 was reduced to 3-cars in 1933, all of the TKs and FKs (all to loose) being replaced by 5656 (a D.2301 high-window 1929 stock CK). 7672 and 7674 were formed in sets 202 and 250 in 1936.

Apart from the early period when one or two would run with added First and Third dining vehicles on the Bournemouth main line services, the 'P' sets were the only sets which maintained the same formations from introduction until the very end of Maunsell stock operation in the early 1960s.

Matching stock not being produced by Dapol (ie look for available kits): D.2551 Three-compartment Pantry First Brake; D.2651 Kitchen and Dining First; D.2652 Dining Third Saloon; D.2653 'General' Saloon.

This basically covers the Southern operation of the 'low window' Maunsell stock right up to the start of the war; I shall ignore the war and immediate post-war (the Malachite) period as formations were very fluid and difficult to keep a track of.

The following were lost due to accident or enemy action between 1938 and the end of 1947: 801, 807.

One 1945-created set which did last into BR days was set 273, one of six (268-273) formed BCK-TK-CK-TK-BCK from previously loose stock; low-window BCKs 6571/6574 and TKs 771/787 were joined by high-window CK 5636 in 273. As part of the same exercise, three sets (265-267) formed BTK-TK-FK-TK-BTK were created and low-window FKs 7209/7220/7669 were formed in 265/266/267 respectively. The other vehicles in all these sets were high-window stock. These were classified 5-sets 'G' and allocated to West of England, and Brighton to Bournemouth and Plymouth services. In 1947 265-267 lost a TK each and were then used on Waterloo-Bournemouth-Weymouth services as 4-sets 'H',  strengthened with First and Third Dining vehicles as required. Sets 265-267 were disbanded in 1948; by 1953, 273 was a 10-car Pullman Dining set on the Waterloo-Southampton Docks service, but ran as a 5-set in the winter.

Sometime before the end of 1947, sets 390-399/445-448 were reclassified as 3-sets 'M' (along with several similarly-formed 'high-window' sets) and were put to working Waterloo to Weymouth/Salisbury services.

In 1948, eight 2-sets 'R' (22-29) were formed, low-window BCKs 6567/6569/6575 (in sets 29/28/23 respectively) being included with other high-window BCKs and Third Brakes. By 1959 they had been demoted to 2-sets 'P' and were on local services in the Western District, mainly on the Bude and Padstow branches.

In 1950, BCKs 6565/6566 were formed with TKs 818/819, two high-window TKs and three new Bulleid CKs in an Eastern Section special services 9-set, 263. The low-window vehicles lasted in this set through several reformations until the set was disbanded in 1959, the BCKs being condemned and the other vehicles redeployed.

By 1953, 3-set 'M' 391-395 were reclassed 3-set 'N' and transferred to Bournemouth West-Bath Green Park services. The remainder were still on Weymouth, Salisbury and West of England services.

In 1954, the Boat Train second-class vehicles were reclassified as Thirds and renumbered; BSKs 4481/4482 became BTKs 2772/2773, and SKs 4483-4486 became TKs, 1921-1924. 2772 was in set 234 in 1957, the others remained loose stock.

In 1956, all Third class was redesignated as Second class.

In 1958, BCK 6570 and SKs 823/824/827 were included with various high-window vehicles in two new 6-sets for the Western District, 340/341. The BCK was replaced by a high-window version in 1959 at the same time as SKs 810/829 replaced high-window CKs. The SKs remained until the sets were withdrawn in 1961, all of them being condemned.

Also in 1958, 2-sets 'W' 100-110, for Western District local services were created, BCKs 6572/6573/6576/6577 was the only members of the 'low-window' fleet included, in sets 101/106/105/102 respectively. Initially the other vehicle was an ex-SECR 10-compartment non-corridor second, but in late 1959 a Maunsell Second Open was substituted; by then 6573/6577 were the only low-window BCKs remaining, the others having been replaced by high-window versions. These sets then remained unchanged until withdrawl. They worked on the Bere Alston-Callington line, and the Sidmouth, Exmouth and Lime Regis branches.

Sets 391/393, 445/448 were withdrawn in 1958; 273, 392, 447, 470 in 1959.

By 1960, the remaining 3-sets were reclassified 3-set 'SD', 390/394-399 and 446 working Bournemouth West-Bath

The remaining 3-sets were withdrawn in 1961, along with the remains of set 469; the 2-sets 22-29/100-10 were 'withdrawn' in 1962, being part of the 'dowry', along with several loose BCKs (one of which was low-window 6569), of the turning over of the lines west of Wilton to the Western Region. The WR immediately painted out the set numbers and changed the coach number prefixes to 'W'.

Of the loose stock, all of the SKs had been withdrawn by the end of 1961, bar 811, which lasted until 10/62; the 'Boat Train' BSKs 2772/73 were withdrawn in 12/58 and 10/59 respectively; the BCKs were all gone by the end of 1959, 6568/6569/6573/6577 being the exceptions, the first withdrawn in 11/61 and the others as noted above; and of the FKs, the majority had been withdrawn by the end of 1959, five examples lasting until the end of 1961 and a further three struggling into 1962.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 07:38:15 pm by talisman56, Reason: Various corrections to typos »
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Offline Karhedron

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2014, 08:53:34 am »
Hi Talisman,

OK, slightly confused now.  :confused1:

Is your analysis excluding the 4-compartment brake 3rd and the Brake Compo? Did I get the wrong end of the stick about Dapol's intentions or are they just releasing the stock you have listed above with the D2101 and BCK to follow at a later unspecified date?
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2014, 09:20:55 am »
Hi Karhedron,

I'm glad that I'm not the only one confused.  :confused1:

Offline talisman56

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2014, 11:10:57 am »
Please read the bold text in my post - I've had to go out and will update that post when I return home...
My inspiration - never let a setback get you down...

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Offline Karhedron

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2014, 11:25:00 am »
Oops, sorry.  :-[

 :sorrysign:
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2014, 11:38:46 am »
Well if all else fails I've got the artwork for a lot of Maunsell sides that could be used for decals or Vinyls, this is a low res version, that lot fit an A4 sheet, also done some work on Ironclads.

Cheers MIKE


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Offline CarriageShed

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2014, 12:57:58 pm »
I think I'll have to wait and see what actually comes out when Dapol finally get around to it. All this pre-release contemplation is making my head want to go off bang.

Well if all else fails I've got the artwork for a lot of Maunsell sides that could be used for decals or Vinyls, this is a low res version, that lot fit an A4 sheet, also done some work on Ironclads.

Really interesting to see these, Mike. Would they be suitable for Ultima kits and Poole-era Farish coaches?

Peter

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2014, 01:42:12 pm »
Problem using Farish  "main line" stock in most cases is window position although a bit of fiddling is possible, also making the sides of brakes narrower;  better approach would be the BHE  shells, NGS SR bogies and Ultima roofs and under floor bits still need to do something about brake sides, main problem with vinyls is the lack of surface detail, door handles, vents over doors, etc.
Cheers MIKE


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Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2014, 03:18:49 pm »
Oops, sorry.  :-[

 :sorrysign:

My apologies, also; I just find the subject very bewildering. 8-(

Offline CarriageShed

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2014, 04:23:08 pm »
Problem using Farish  "main line" stock in most cases is window position although a bit of fiddling is possible, also making the sides of brakes narrower;  better approach would be the BHE  shells, NGS SR bogies and Ultima roofs and under floor bits still need to do something about brake sides, main problem with vinyls is the lack of surface detail, door handles, vents over doors, etc.

I was mainly thinking about the Ultima Ironclads. I have a set on my wish list, but adding all the carriage side detailing (lined SR paintwork, etc) might be easier with vinyls. I'm already planning to add door handles to Farish non-corridor stock, so doing that over the vinyls shouldn't be any more taxing.

Offline talisman56

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Re: Dapol Maunsell coaches
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2014, 04:49:50 pm »
My original post above has now been updated... enjoy?
My inspiration - never let a setback get you down...

My layout thread - Hambleside East: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18364.0
My workbench thread: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19037

 

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