N Gauge Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: first timer on September 05, 2017, 07:10:31 PM

Title: The shed
Post by: first timer on September 05, 2017, 07:10:31 PM
I,m having a shed delivered and once built I need to insulate it, Alliminum (spelt wrong I know) bubble foil is my choice. Do I fit it against the wall of the shed or onto the batons leaving 20mm gap bearing in mind I am then going to cover it over with sheets of hard board to make it more like a proper railway room complete with underlay and (wait for it ) real carpet. I know what your all saying but if its going to be done its going to be done properly, I may not get the railway in there till next year but after 2 and a half years not working because of a near fatal accident at work and limited movement its going to be great to actuly do something worthwhile although I,m useless with my hands ( ask my X girlfriends ). await any response that comes along.

Regards Les (first timer )

8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on September 05, 2017, 09:16:22 PM
Can't answer the question but if you have 10 girlfriends you're certainly doing something right :envy:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: LAandNQFan on September 05, 2017, 11:43:21 PM
I tried to get it half-way down the battens, Les, so that there was an air gap between the shed wall and the insulation and a similar gap between the insulation and the shed lining.  Don't forget to get the aluminium sealing tape so that the insulation is continuous.  It's no use if there are gaps for the wind to blow through!
David
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: stevewalker on September 06, 2017, 12:07:40 AM
I used polystyrene sheets over the battens, with hardboard on top - leaving a good air-gap behind.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: The Q on September 06, 2017, 08:26:37 AM
Ideally you should have an air gap each side of the bubble foil insulation. Each air gap adds to the insulation. If you are not able to do this I think I'd prefer it against the outside wall allowing the air gap to be for the hardboard. Hard board is notorious for being affected by damp so having the air gap to dry it would be better.

I choose to use polystyrene board in my walls, covered by wooden cladding boards. Much easier to install cladding boards than large sheets of hardboard or ply but probably more expensive. I have used the foil in one or two areas where I didn't have the room for the polystyrene (my shed's a very odd shape).

I don't like carpet for the floors, I'd be forever losing little bits of models in it, and very rapidly get it dirty. So I use / will be using those rubber floor tiles that interlock, they add to the insulation and soften the floor like carpet.

Don't forget to insulate your window /s getting another sheet of clear plastic on the inside or outside makes an amazing difference. Also remember that if you are screwing it on to have a larger hole that the screw shank as plastic expands and contracts a lot!!
Another thing is to to have a small gap somewhere along the bottom seal of your plastic sheet to let out any condensation. I have acrylic plastic screwed on the outside of old house sash windows with sealing tape between and just a 10mm gap for the condensation at the bottom. It Works!!
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on September 08, 2017, 05:12:21 PM
Because the insulation is quite expensive I,m hoping 1 x 28 mtrs x1.35mts wide will do the whole shed less 2 window spaces of coarse, the shed is 8x6 pent shaped, it say,s it will cover 37.5mtrs any budding mathamatitons out there confirm this !!!!!

Cheers
Les :headbutt: :headbutt: :headbutt: :A1Tornado:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Malc on September 09, 2017, 11:30:04 AM
Quote from: first timer on September 08, 2017, 05:12:21 PM
Because the insulation is quite expensive I,m hoping 1 x 28 mtrs x1.35mts wide will do the whole shed less 2 window spaces of coarse, the shed is 8x6 pent shaped, it say,s it will cover 37.5mtrs any budding mathamatitons out there confirm this !!!!!

Cheers
Les :headbutt: :headbutt: :headbutt: :A1Tornado:
Assuming your shed walls are 6ft high, and allowing for the pent roof, you will have some left over. That's even allowing you to insulate the door. You should have 5 sq m over.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: guest6107 on September 10, 2017, 12:19:19 PM
How do you people keep spiders and things out?
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on September 10, 2017, 12:38:06 PM
I think you are asking the impossible there. I've had mancaves in spare bedrooms and currently in my conservatory and the little buggers always find a way in (some of them ain't so little either!)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: themadhippy on September 10, 2017, 12:50:42 PM
QuoteHow do you people keep spiders and things out
free roaming lizzard in the shed?
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on September 10, 2017, 02:16:19 PM
Thanks Malc,might just put a bit more on the roof. Been to the N gauge show to-day not bad, bought an engine, a bit of new track, and a couple of Metcalfe kits. So am now skint. Her indoors was with me so had full permition .shed now not being delivered until week commencing 16th oct. so have time to lay my base. The area is stoned ( small chippings ) and was told by a mate of mine to spread sand on top as the slabs will bed in better.Its has to be raised about 3ins from back to front so I think sand will sit better. What do you all think!!!!!!.

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Big bad John on September 10, 2017, 02:50:37 PM
Sand will be fine for laying slab's on but compo around the perimeter about 2 ,to 3 inches under the edge of the slab's otherwise the slab's will start moving over time. I also sprinkle a little dry cement over the sand and rake it in just before laying the slab's.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: The Q on September 11, 2017, 08:17:24 AM
Quote from: Quinn on September 10, 2017, 12:19:19 PM
How do you people keep spiders and things out?
conkers....

Yep, there is something about the smell they give off that the spiders don't like, just crack them open a little to let the fumes out and spread a few around the possible ways they get in ie doors and windows..
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Bealman on September 11, 2017, 08:32:41 AM
Quote from: newportnobby on September 10, 2017, 12:38:06 PM
I think you are asking the impossible there. I've had mancaves in spare bedrooms and currently in my conservatory and the little buggers always find a way in (some of them ain't so little either!)

You guys don't know what a big spider looks like.

Plus we have to deal with lizards too. My neglected layout has recently been adorned with large droppings from some unknown wildlife. By large, around 2cm.... a bit large for even our biggest arachnid. I suspect a lizard, but I'm not gonna sit out in the garage all night waiting for the culprit  :worried:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on September 11, 2017, 10:51:57 AM
I think we are getting away from the subject of the shed any other ideas info anyone can give me would be great.
P. S. did anyone go to the N gauge show the week-end ?
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 20, 2017, 04:52:31 PM
Hi all, the shed has been delivered and built, the insulation has been ordered and should be fitted by the end of next week. Because of my disability instead of fitting, measuring, screwing, and sawing and adding bits of wood here and there I am going to buy 3 heavy duty trestle tables and sit the plywood on top, any comments or ideas are welcome.

Les H.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: David Asquith on October 20, 2017, 06:02:17 PM
Hi Les,

Is your layout going to be on one board?  If so you might want to consider hinging your board to a wall so you can get to the underneath without crawling to do your wiring.  This subject is quite well covered on the forum particularly by us older, less agile ones.  Hindsight is a great thing and I wish I had done it at the start.  I can't do it now though without cutting through lots of track and scenery as my layout has grown to a flat n shape.

Dave
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: texhorse on October 20, 2017, 07:17:12 PM
Hi Les

Good to communicate with another shed layout owner.  Another thing I would suggest at this point relates to layout design.  As we get older, having a "duck under" becomes a bit of a pain when we struggle to get up from hands and knees!  This year I rearranged my layout so that it's in a U shape and runs from end to end, instead of a loop. 

If you don't mind running from one end to another rather than a "roundy roundy" layout, I'd recommend this.  My layout is more accessible to me now, and I find it more inviting when visiting the shed.

Andy
UK
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 20, 2017, 08:45:04 PM
Thanks for your comments lads but no one has mentioned my trestle idea.

     Les :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Lawrence on October 20, 2017, 09:00:42 PM
Les, if, because of your disability, you are unable to fix the layout to the shed walls, might I suggest you get a local handyman or such, to fix your boards in the shed how you want them.  It probably wont cost a great deal more than buying 3 heavy duty trestles and you will be safe in the knowledge that all your hard work wont end up on the floor because you lent on the wrong bit!
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on October 20, 2017, 09:29:12 PM
I have to agree with Lawrence, a fixed baseboard is much more preferable to a loose one sat on trestles. As Lawrence said, lean on the wrong bit ........... :doh:. Have you any relatives or neighbours who are handy with a saw and screwdriver? Living where I do, there is no way I can help you, but if a relative/neighbour could assist in their spare time, it would only cost you a few drinks.  ;). If necessary, as Lawrence suggests, have a word with a local handyman or two. Good luck with it.  :beers:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 20, 2017, 09:39:25 PM
The board will sit on the trestles but also L brackets will be fitted to the shed upright battons and the underside of the board to anchor it down.

    les
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: texhorse on October 20, 2017, 09:40:46 PM
Yet another vote for Lawrence's idea, Les.  Permanently installed boards will be a wise investment in the long run.

Andy
UK
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Bealman on October 21, 2017, 02:12:09 AM
Another agree from the Antipodes.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 21, 2017, 07:31:43 AM
O K you,ve convinced me that a frame around the shed wall will be better and neater, I also thought after that trestles would make it very difficult to do the wiring, so a frame it is, treated before fitting of coarse. Let you know how I get on with the insulation and the extra brackets to be fitted so as the 4ft x 2ft board will fit over the top of the insulation. O I,m going to have fun.

Les :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: daveg on October 21, 2017, 07:38:41 AM
Great decision but do think about the hinged idea as working on the underside of the layout, sitting on the floor is not the best place to be!

Look forward to hearing how you get on.

Dave G
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Bealman on October 21, 2017, 07:50:37 AM
These days, when I go under my layout, it takes 3 days to get out from it!  :beers:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: texhorse on October 21, 2017, 08:14:46 AM
A lot of us can appreciate what you're saying Bealman.  I'm 51 on Monday (no hint intended), and the layout was first put up 19 years ago.  In those days, my health was obviously a heck of a lot better than it is right now.  So, no thought was ever given to how I would be struggling in the future.

Amazing how the years have given us wisdom.  Now, not only have I made the layout more accessible and user friendly at the age of 50, but I'm also considering how I'm going to be at 70 as well.  Trying to build those features in now, means I won't be struggling more than ever, or giving up the hobby altogether when I'm even more disabled in the future.

Andy
UK
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Bealman on October 21, 2017, 08:23:41 AM
Thanks, Andy. You've hit it right on the head, as far as I'm concerned. I could duck and dive under my layout back then, but that's it..... back then!

Approaching my late sixties, me brain works but other stuff breaking down!

Anyway, no thread hijack.... accessibility is most certainly a consideration!!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 21, 2017, 09:32:49 AM
O K. all you budding carpenters how do I fit hinges:- on the top of the board or uderneath  and what sort and how many, board will be 7ft 4in long 2ft 9in wide.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Webbo on October 21, 2017, 10:58:42 AM
Les,

Seems to me that if you're going to build a hingeable board then it is going to have to have some sort of frame. In principle you could get away with two hinges on a 7' 4" long board particularly if it is structurally stiff. However, the more hinges the better (4 or even more) as these would help to minimise the distortion of the board when it is lifted. If you fasten a piece of timber horizontally along the vertical battens in your shed and attach the hinges to this beam, then this will help to stiffen the layout board.

I agree wholeheartedly with the comments about the need to take account of inflexible old backs when constructing a layout.

Webbo
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Lawrence on October 21, 2017, 11:06:22 AM
Hi Les

sorry to have caused you all these problems but I hope it will benefit you in the long run.

I would suggest you fit a beam, horizontally, to the wall where your layout will be attached.  To that beam, fix a couple of long piano style continuous hinges then fit your frame to the hinge, this 'step out' from the wall will allow the frame to move up without catching on the wall.
You can also attach a couple of hinged legs to the inside of the frame that will drop in place when the layout is down, but automatically fold back when you raise it.

Just make sure that when you fit your layout/beam to the wall that is going to be at a comfortable height for working at long term!
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 21, 2017, 11:48:21 AM
I,ve drawn a bit of a plan using 75mm x 75mm timber along the back wall and part the way down each side wall do I need to use such a big piece could I get away with 38 x 63mm and fit the T hinge on the front of the 63mm side and on the underneath of my base board? or shell I just build it high enough so I can sit on a small stool underneath it.

Les  :headbutt:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: daveg on October 21, 2017, 05:32:11 PM
I think deciding on a hinged board or not will very much depend on if you think you can spend, say 15-ish minutes under the board, working pretty much upside down!

I'm an 'agile' 70 year old (well, I will be on Sunday if all goes to plan!) and I find that 15 minutes is the max I can work that way under my L shaped layout.

If my plan was to be a single straight board, not an L or other shape, I would certainly go with a hinged option.

Good luck with whatever you decide and please keep us posted.

Dave G
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 21, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
My layout is going to be simple, nothing fancy with loads of wire running everywhere it will be just 4 sets of wires connected to 2 twin controllers a double oval and a couple of sidings. I am going to run a part raised oval around the outside wired up indipendantly  so I can have two trains running at the same time. so hopefully will not spend too much time under layout. The points will be operated manuly.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 29, 2017, 02:33:33 PM
The shed is built, extra batons have been added and silver insulation has been fitted and sealed. Next is the hardboard then painted a light colour and then the frame along back and sides at 42ins high for the 9mm plywood base board to sit on. Still thinking about hinging the top but like I said before points will be manual and only 4 sets of wires will need to be fitted on the underside of the layout. Will keep you posted.

Les
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on October 29, 2017, 02:48:25 PM
A couple of suggestions:-

Try and make curved or diagonal corners of the backscene as it looks far better than 90 degree scenery.

Make sure you drill holes in the battens under the baseboard to carry wiring before you fit the battens.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: The Q on October 30, 2017, 09:58:08 AM
In fitting the hinges you need to allow for scenery on top of the layout so they need to be stepped out from the wall so when you lift the layout it doesn't hit anything.

Did I mention remembering to insulate the windows? using a second sheet of Plastic screwed to the inside or outside makes an amazing difference...
Allow larger holes for the screws than the screw body, plastic expands and contracts at a different rate than a wooden shed... or do a wooden frame to hold the plastic in place that allows for expansion.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 30, 2017, 01:22:55 PM
Thanks for the reminder Q already got an extra piece of Perspex to do the job but I,m a bit reluctant to how to cut it to size, so if anyone has any ideas please let me have them. Ive fitted the insulation but a lot of it is fitted to the batons on the shed plus the extra ones I fitted so when I fit the hardboard on top theres not going to be much of a gap but theres a good gap between the shed walls and the insulation. Should this still  do the trick?

Les.

Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on October 30, 2017, 08:11:02 PM
Re the perspex. I have seen it cut with an electric jigsaw, I suppose any fine toothed saw would do. I have also seen it cut like you would a piece of glass - score a line against a straight edge and the put matchsticks or similar under the score line and apply a bit of pressure.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: The Q on October 31, 2017, 07:32:53 AM
Cutting perspex with a jig saw you have to be careful.
There are proper perspex blades available, normal blades that have teeth that stick out each side of the centreline make the perspex vibrate then Split (guess how I know). If you are going to cut perspex, clamp it both sides along the cut line with wood Above and below). So the pespex cuts but doesn't vibrate. Or better still sacrifice some plywood, completely cover the perspex in ply top and bottom and cut through the three layers.
I would advise looking at a few perspex cutting videos on the net.

Similarly there are perspex /plastic drills if you wish to make a hole or two, standard drills are too aggressive, they pull the drill bit through the plastic, forcing it apart and causing splits...

The insulation seems to be the best you can do, all you can to is cover it and try it...

I got both my perspex / acrylic drill bits and jig saw blades via the house of the strong ladies...
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on October 31, 2017, 09:30:13 AM
Quote from: The Q on October 31, 2017, 07:32:53 AM

I got both my perspex / acrylic drill bits and jig saw blades via the house of the strong ladies...

I just know I'm going to kick myself for asking but.......... ???
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: BlythPower on October 31, 2017, 10:23:50 AM
Quote from: newportnobby on October 31, 2017, 09:30:13 AM
Quote from: The Q on October 31, 2017, 07:32:53 AM

I got both my perspex / acrylic drill bits and jig saw blades via the house of the strong ladies...

I just know I'm going to kick myself for asking but.......... ???

It took me a while... They're legendary Greek ladies with a sideline in large South American rivers.  ;)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on October 31, 2017, 10:25:39 AM
Quote from: newportnobby on October 31, 2017, 09:30:13 AM
Quote from: The Q on October 31, 2017, 07:32:53 AM

I got both my perspex / acrylic drill bits and jig saw blades via the house of the strong ladies...

I just know I'm going to kick myself for asking but.......... ???

Have you asked Alexa? :D
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 31, 2017, 12:06:39 PM
I,ve got a strong lady thanks, perhaps she could cut my Perspex !!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on October 31, 2017, 12:17:46 PM
Quote from: BlythPower on October 31, 2017, 10:23:50 AM
Quote from: newportnobby on October 31, 2017, 09:30:13 AM
Quote from: The Q on October 31, 2017, 07:32:53 AM

I got both my perspex / acrylic drill bits and jig saw blades via the house of the strong ladies...

I just know I'm going to kick myself for asking but.......... ???

It took me a while... They're legendary Greek ladies with a sideline in large South American rivers.  ;)

Thank you. It's sunk in now :dunce:

Quote from: tutenkhamunsleeping on October 31, 2017, 10:25:39 AM

Have you asked Alexa? :D

I'd rather remain ignorant, thanks.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 31, 2017, 01:23:39 PM
I,m not confident enough to cut it , if I 'male chicken' (changed by forum) it up I,ve lost £20 so the piece I,ve bought will replace the old sheet in my old shed and I,m going to get 2 ready cut pieces for the new shed if I can find a local company that sells it.

Les
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: texhorse on October 31, 2017, 06:29:37 PM
I was going to invest in a piece of perspex to cover my shed window until I read the caveats here.  I had no idea it would be a problem to cut down.  I think I'd do the same as you Les, and look and see if a specialist firm will cut it for you, or sell it already cut to size. 

By the way my shed has no insulation, other than old newspapers behind some old MDF under the layout!   :goggleeyes:

However, it does have a very expensive Permaroof which is a normal roof with rubber sheeting properly glued to it.  The rubber roof is guaranteed not to leak for eighty years!  It's warm in the shed in Winter, and cool in Summer as well.  It was a good investment.

Andy
UK
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on October 31, 2017, 07:32:33 PM
Quote from: texhorse on October 31, 2017, 06:29:37 PM
The rubber roof is guaranteed not to leak for eighty years!

If  you are one of those 'really old geezers' mentioned elsewhere on this 'ere forum, how are you gonna know if the guarantee is worth the paper it's printed on?  ??? ;)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: texhorse on October 31, 2017, 07:46:04 PM
Hmmm.  Good point.  I bet Permaroof UK don't get many people claim from them, unless something has gone wrong when it was installed!

Andy
UK
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on October 31, 2017, 08:07:27 PM
So what did you use in your window frames Texhorse.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: texhorse on October 31, 2017, 08:43:20 PM
They are just the original wood and glass.  They've been in place at least seventeen years, so they aren't doing too badly.

Andy
UK
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on November 08, 2017, 02:24:52 PM
Hi all, as I said before I have fitted the insulation in my shed  and have quite a bit left, would it be practical to cover the floor of the shed with the left overs before I fit underlay and carpet?

    Les. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on November 11, 2017, 11:45:55 AM
I also need to know the best stain to use on the outside of the shed and the best to use on the frame and base board inside.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: LAandNQFan on November 11, 2017, 12:56:46 PM
I used three coats of Cuprinol "5-year" Ducksback and after two-and-a-half years it is still looking perfect.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on November 11, 2017, 01:33:11 PM
Quote from: LAandNQFan on November 11, 2017, 12:56:46 PM
I used three coats of Cuprinol "5-year" Ducksback and after two-and-a-half years it is still looking perfect.

I should think so, too!
Surely 3 coats of a 5-year stainer = 15 years? ;)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on November 11, 2017, 01:52:06 PM
And what should I use inside on frame and base board?

     Les.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on November 11, 2017, 02:15:16 PM
no one has said weather or not I should cover the shed floor with the silver bubble insulation I have left before I lay carpet. ( I know its the carpet bit that frightens you is,nt it

    Les.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: trkilliman on November 11, 2017, 03:24:24 PM
I'm a great believer in Sadolin Extra for external shed walls. I have used it on my three sheds and been very pleased with it's protection and, for want of another word, longevity.

This again is a treatment where the manufacturer says it only needs re-coating every 5 years. What does it for me is it's one of a rapidly dwindling number oil based products left on the market. It's available in a range of shades.

I'm a tad suspicious of all these water based treatments that have come onto the market. Is it that manufacturers are truly concerned for the environment, are they under pressure to move away from using oil, or is it that compared to using oils they are as cheap as chips to produce, tick the right "green box" and yield greater profits?

Each to their own of course, but I will continue to use oil based shed protection for as long as it is still available
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: ColinH on November 11, 2017, 07:17:55 PM
Quote from: first timer on November 11, 2017, 02:15:16 PM
no one has said weather or not I should cover the shed floor with the silver bubble insulation I have left before I lay carpet. ( I know its the carpet bit that frightens you is,nt it

    Les.

If you have insulated the walls and ceiling and have enough insulation left I would certainly use it on the floor. I did when I constructed my shed 3 years ago. Just put it on the floor and floated the chipboard sheets on top of it but then I did use sheets of polystyrene. Think you may have to install some battens to put second floor in. Was not brave enough to use carpet though but did lay a very nice wood effect cushion vinyl.

May be others will now be brave enough to concur.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Big bad John on November 12, 2017, 01:23:53 AM
Old engine oil and paraffin mixed about 50/50 is a good substitute for the old creosote of yesteryear for coating your shed. Disadvantages are A- It does stink a bit for a couple of days, B- It will need at least 2 coats a couple of weeks apart and C- it comes in a limited range of colour's (dirty dark brown). The advantages are A- it's cheap, B- rain and moisture will just skate off, C- no mold or mildew will be able to live on it. My Dad's old shed lasted 52 years with this treatment and was still as solid as new when we had to get rid of it although he did give it another coat every 5 or 6 years. You may want to look at some of the newer preservatives that require less coats (if you only want your shed for 5 or 6 years) or want a trendy colour.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: The Q on November 12, 2017, 07:44:00 PM
As I've built my own shed I built it with polystyrene sheet below the wooden floor but above a damp proof membrane.
The problem with the tin foil bubbles is the possibility of popping bubbles, I don't think you will lose anything by putting the foil down I'm just not sure how effective it will be.

My shed floor is partly 150 year old yellow pine flooring recovered from a warehouse, this has been sanded and varnished. Sadly my source dried up before I had enough for all the floors. The  rest is a water proof 3/4 inch particle board, this will be covered in those interlocking rubber mats. Not just insulating but soft on the feet.

As for the outside, genuine creosote is the best, but only obtainable if you have a friendly farmer or qualified person who can still obtain it. I've not much left but it will be topped up with old engine oil.

My own shed is fibreglass covered meaning no more maintenance,  the commercial part of the wooden shed, was sprayed with the wax based coating, the north and east side stayed ok but those facing south and west seemed to fail in the sunshine after a couple of years. So I Could have resprayed but instead went for more fibreglass..

For inside I've just used cheap white gloss paint for baseboard framing / supports, where I wanted a varnished surface I used a quality varnish, as varnish is more fragile especially if in the sun. For baseboard I'd use the same, ( only I'm using foam baseboards so don't need to)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Mito on November 12, 2017, 09:25:47 PM
Diesel fuel is used here as a preservative, agricultural is cheaper. Smells and increases the fire risk but effective.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on January 07, 2018, 11:45:05 AM
Hi all, up date on my shed, insulation is now fitted hardboard to cover has been ordered and will  arrive sometime this week, had a quote for mains power this morning and instead of taking it from the main board he is taking it from a mains socket and fitting a fuse/breaker box in the shed. Quote consists of;- 1 strip light, 6 power points, and a outside security light. total:-£480 inc.V. A. T. more updates later.

     Regards
       Les H.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: TrevL on January 12, 2018, 10:54:33 AM
Les, my suggestion would be NOT to use hardboard, but 9mm plywood.
My first shed had hardboard, but over time it absorbed moisture and started to bow and buckle.  However, my second and current shed is insulated with Celotex and lined with the 9mm ply and after about 4 years, there's no sign of of the previous bowing of the sheets. A bit more expensive than h/b, but definitely worth the extra cost.  HTH
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on January 13, 2018, 03:56:04 PM
The shed is now lined with boards and the frame for the base board has also been fitted. Next job is to paint it ( a nice pale blue is my choice ) that will be done in the next few days, next is the flooring, then have the 12mm plywood cut to size for the base board ( 7ft 5ins x 3ft ) then the electrics. Then I hope to be ready to start designing some sort of layout. Getting very excited now.

   Regards Les
                         :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 16, 2018, 04:48:10 PM
 The shed is now painted inside (a nice sky blue ) next is the insulation,underlay, and carpet. and then the electrics which is being done by a electrician, because I have not got a spare fuse on the board he says he can take it off the main double socket that runs straight to the fuse box, ( that should start a few remarks ).

    Les  :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 19, 2018, 05:52:52 PM
Well I am surprised no one commented about how my shed electrics are going to be fitted.

     :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Big bad John on February 19, 2018, 06:31:52 PM
Well I would say the most important thing is not how he does it but that it is a safe way of doing it which I assume he should know if he's a qualified sparky. Personally I would have asked him to fit a second consumer unit next to the existing one and taken the feed feed to the shed from that fitted with the appropriate MCB. Something like this one
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-sentry-4-module-2-way-populated-garage-consumer-unit/1582g (https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-sentry-4-module-2-way-populated-garage-consumer-unit/1582g)
Remember that a dodgy install could void your insurance in the event of a catastrophe.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: colpatben on February 19, 2018, 08:41:17 PM
Quote from: first timer on February 19, 2018, 05:52:52 PM
Well I am surprised no one commented about how my shed electrics are going to be fitted.

     :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
Pop over and peruse this.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40310.msg490024#msg490024 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40310.msg490024#msg490024)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on February 19, 2018, 08:44:57 PM
Any comment from me about electrics would just be shocking :dunce:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on February 19, 2018, 09:36:52 PM
You always get one bright spark!
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 21, 2018, 03:15:41 PM
The shed floor has now been layed , double layer of insulation, underlay, and then the carpet. and yes the electrics are being installed by a qualified sparky.

    Les H.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on February 21, 2018, 04:24:47 PM
Be warned, if you make it too comfortable some bloke called Newportnobby has a habit of moving in ;)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 21, 2018, 04:34:59 PM
My wife has already asked me where the bed goes.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: TrevL on February 21, 2018, 04:59:39 PM
Quote from: first timer on February 21, 2018, 04:34:59 PM
My wife has already asked me where the bed goes.

About two feet below the layout, then you can do the under board track wiring in comfort :D
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 21, 2018, 05:14:09 PM
Is that speaking from experience ?
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: TrevL on February 21, 2018, 05:52:41 PM
Quote from: first timer on February 21, 2018, 05:14:09 PM
Is that speaking from experience ?

No,  Bilbo the Boxer would be wanting to join me, and the wirestrippers i can't find would probably under him.  It's bad enough that he won't let me go to the shed alone now., it would be murder if there was a bed in there.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on February 21, 2018, 09:43:26 PM
Quote from: first timer on February 21, 2018, 04:34:59 PM
My wife has already asked me where the bed goes.

Have you asked her exactly why she wants to sleep in the shed? On second thoughts, if you want to see the next day, don't ask her that at all :no:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 23, 2018, 09:07:53 AM
If anybody it will be me sleeping in the shed. Right, 9mm plywood has been cut to size and loosely fitted in the shed ready to be framed and varnished but to cold at the moment will have to wait a few days.

    Les.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Bealman on February 23, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
I like your choice of 9mm plywood, but disagree with varnishing. Unecessary  and a waste of money.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on February 23, 2018, 09:52:24 AM
Sorry, George, but from what I've read on the forum I'd have to disagree although I have no personal experience of using plywood for baseboards :-\
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Bealman on February 23, 2018, 10:00:59 AM
Varnish adds yet another layer between the track and the baseboard.

Plus, whats it supposed to do? Waterproof it?

Getting into the realms of garden railways, Mick  :P

George
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: NinOz on February 23, 2018, 10:09:56 AM
Quote from: Bealman on February 23, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
I like your choice of 9mm plywood, but disagree with varnishing. Unecessary  and a waste of money.
Use plywood myself (12mm for frame and track bed) and certainly a most popular choice around my area.
I only use exterior grade ply as the glues used are more water resistant and I throw lots of water about for scenery, no surface prep used.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 23, 2018, 10:11:34 AM
O.K. so forget the varnish but it still needs a frame,
  yes,  P S anyone want to buy a tin of varnish and a brush ?
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: NinOz on February 23, 2018, 10:33:42 AM
Varnishing won't hurt, just not essential.  Sure helps in slowing down dimensional changes due to varying humidity.

I know a few who had used MDF and Chipboard (the cheaper non-moisture resistant types) and varnished to slow the non-reversible expansion in high humidity.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Caz on February 23, 2018, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: first timer on February 23, 2018, 10:11:34 AM
O.K. so forget the varnish but it still needs a frame,
  yes,  P S anyone want to buy a tin of varnish and a brush ?

If it's clear varnish is makes good looking water for either a river or lake, it's what I've used on Claywell

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/main_1562.jpg)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on February 23, 2018, 07:04:11 PM
I also used varnish for my little bit of river. The trick seems to be to put on very thin layers and allow to dry fully between each layer.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 24, 2018, 02:13:54 PM
O. K. frame on base board fitted, electrics on 7th March, and then I,m ready to move in (yipeeeee ). Mind you I have,nt designed a layout yet so lots of work and excitement to look forward to. Can,t wait.

    Les  :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 26, 2018, 03:18:39 PM
Decided not to raise outer track, would have to buy 3 or 4 different packs of Woodland scenic raisers and inclines just to use bit of them so would work out very expensive. so all on the flat unless anyone has other ideas !!!!!!!!! Another question where,s the best place to home my controllers to one end or the middle of the layout or on a separate table near the sockets. Tell me please how you did yours.

     Regards
      Les.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on February 26, 2018, 03:46:55 PM
There is no need to buy risers. I used 5mm (?) ply cut into a strip a bit wider than the track bed and then cut bits of the ply to act as supports.  A bit like this -
                  ___________________
                /  l       l           l           l \

which is totally exaggerated of course!

In effect, all you are doing is making a bridge, with very gentle sloping inclines. If it is only to vary the scenery a bit, you need very little 'rise' and if you are only talking about an inch or so, you could use foam or polystyrene packing to support the 'bridge'. It does not really matter how you support the raised bit, it will be covered by scenery.
(I hope the above makes sense!).
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on February 26, 2018, 04:09:32 PM
If you have a jig saw you could cut a line inside the branch line/platform and raise the cut baseboard as a 'tongue' to give a gentle rise to whatever height you need. Then just place supports under that piece of baseboard.
(Hope that makes sense)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 26, 2018, 06:26:59 PM
Like the idea of using ply would I get away with using 3mm hard board ? secondly how do I raise the track from base board level to desired height ( 2ins ) as a gradual gradiant ?
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Mito on February 26, 2018, 08:54:41 PM
I haven't read all your thread but did you post a plan? There are various ways of elevating track depending on your woodworking skills and the tools you have, direct me to the plan and I'll try and help you. A control panel can be mounted where ever you want it or there is space. Alternatively you can make a separate panel and connect it with computer D plugs and sockets.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on February 27, 2018, 07:50:00 AM
Go to DC wiring then wiring track by First timer there is a plan 5 in the peco setrack  book,I was going to raise the top branch line by 2ins along the top and part way down each side extending it down the right hand side if that sounds ok.

     Les
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Mito on February 27, 2018, 09:07:26 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on February 26, 2018, 04:09:32 PM
If you have a jig saw you could cut a line inside the branch line/platform and raise the cut baseboard as a 'tongue' to give a gentle rise to whatever height you need. Then just place supports under that piece of baseboard.
(Hope that makes sense)
In this case I think that's the best way. To avoid sharp changes in the slopes make shallow cuts in the ply a right angles to the track for a distance of about 15cm from where you want to start and finish the slope. At the top of the slope cut the top surface, at the bottom the underneath. This will give you a smoother transition. The raised portion can then be supported by risers joined to the framework or offcuts at right angles to the track resting on the original level of the baseboard. I hope that makes sense too. Keep on asking questions and you'll get there.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Railwaygun on February 28, 2018, 11:10:25 PM
Quote from: first timer on February 27, 2018, 07:50:00 AM
Go to DC wiring then wiring track by First timer there is a plan 5 in the peco setrack  book,I was going to raise the top branch line by 2ins along the top and part way down each side extending it down the right hand side if that sounds ok.

     Les

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/94i1-250218175330-62253580.jpeg)

This one l think
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on March 01, 2018, 09:36:08 AM
 :D

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/264-010318093422-62461885.jpeg)
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 01, 2018, 01:21:26 PM
Yes that's the one lads. Can,t do anything in the shed at the moment, to cold and its snowing like hell.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Mito on March 01, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
You could make a snow train :doh:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 01, 2018, 06:41:19 PM
Ain,t that a fact. All ready and excited to move in and start planning.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 02, 2018, 03:25:46 PM
Still can,t get to my shed because of the weather freezing cold wind and still snowing like bilio how frustrating never mind having the electrics fitted next Wednesday so will be snug as a bug in a rug when that's done.

  Happy modelling
     Les. :cold: :cold: :cold: :cold: :cold:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on March 02, 2018, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: first timer on March 02, 2018, 03:25:46 PM
never mind having the electrics fitted next Wednesday so will be snug as a bug in a rug when that's done.


Well that will certainly bring exceptionally warm weather !!
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 03, 2018, 10:51:37 AM
Fed up now can,t get to my shed, silly little jobs I could do like clean track and loco,s make models and a general clean up but I,ve moved everything out of the house and put it guess where !!!!!!!!!!! in the shed. So looking through model railway mags feeling totally board. Don't even know if the electrics will be done Wednesday because of this bl%*&y weather, hoping it will have cleared a bit by then.So I,m boring you lot with messages to pass the time. Was going to Leamington show today but its been cancelled, should be going out tonight but its been cancelled, and out with friends from Linconshire on Sunday but its been cancelled. What a life.

    Regards
      Les :goodbye: :goodbye: :goodbye: :goodbye: :goodbye:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on March 03, 2018, 02:11:03 PM
It's certainly a bummer at present, Les. I was looking forward to the Preston Model Railway Show this weekend but it has been cancelled :(
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 07, 2018, 02:32:02 PM
After a bummer weekend my electrics were fitted to-day all working great. Ready now for the shelves to be fitted and a couple of legs on the front of the base board and I,m all ready to start building a model railway. ( can,t wait ). Did,nt realise I got so much gear to go in think I need a bigger shed.

   Regards
     Les
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: TrevL on March 07, 2018, 06:43:00 PM
Quote from: first timer on March 07, 2018, 02:32:02 PM
. Did,nt realise I got so much gear to go in think I need a bigger shed.

   Regards
     Les

I know what you mean Les,  I'm planning to get rid of my 10 x 7 and get a 10 x 10 for that very reason ;D
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: JohnN on March 07, 2018, 06:59:45 PM
Congrats on all the effort getting the shed ready. Can't wait to start seeing the build now.

Bet you're a very happy bunny.  :D
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 07, 2018, 07:01:55 PM
I,m a very happy bunny.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 07, 2018, 07:07:57 PM
I would have liked a bigger shed but there,s  a manhole right in the middle of my plot so 6 x 8 was is big as I could have so shelves and storage boxes are my answer.

      Les
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on March 07, 2018, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: TrevL on March 07, 2018, 06:43:00 PM
I'm planning to get rid of my 10 x 7 and get a 10 x 10 for that very reason ;D

What a total waste of money! You know that once the 10 x 10 is erected, you will want a 12 x 15!  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: TrevL on March 07, 2018, 07:57:21 PM
 :laughabovepost:
Awesome!
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: The Q on March 08, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
Why get rid of the old shed? when my 53ft shed got too small, I just built a 10ft extension on the end,,,

Since then I've inherited a 12ft N gauge railway, now where am I going to put that?   I know I'll... :D
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on March 08, 2018, 02:36:04 PM
Quote from: The Q on March 08, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
Why get rid of the old shed? when my 53ft shed got too small, I just built a 10ft extension on the end,,,

Since then I've inherited a 12ft N gauge railway, now where am I going to put that?   I know I'll... :D

......build another extension ;D
Simples.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: john12glen on March 08, 2018, 02:44:41 PM
This starting to show symptoms of 'shed envy' this is not an unusual psychological condition, go to B&Q to see it on a Saturday. :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: The Q on March 08, 2018, 02:52:27 PM
I wouldn't be envious of any shed they sell in Block and Quale or any other of the DIY sheds they're made down t a price not to a quality. It's not too hard to make your own to your own needs probably cheaper too.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 08, 2018, 03:40:58 PM
Well I,m quite happy with my 8 x 6 all insulated cosy and warm, I go in shut the door and I,m in a world of my own and nothing else matters.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 09, 2018, 06:57:50 PM
Well the sheds finished I,ve actually got track down just to see what its looks like and it looks great. I,m warm, dry, and happy,and a little portible gas stove for coffee and tea could,nt be better.

    Regards
     Les :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: dannyboy on March 09, 2018, 07:16:59 PM
Well, on one front, all is well, but what happens when SWMBO sues for divorce on the grounds of desertion ?  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Railwaygun on March 09, 2018, 07:53:15 PM
Quote from: first timer on March 09, 2018, 06:57:50 PM
Well the sheds finished I,ve actually got track down just to see what its looks like and it looks great. I,m warm, dry, and happy,and a little portible gas stove for coffee and tea could,nt be better.

    Regards
     Les :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:
We demand some pictures!!
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Newportnobby on March 09, 2018, 09:11:06 PM
Quote from: dannyboy on March 09, 2018, 07:16:59 PM
but what happens when SWMBO sues for divorce on the grounds of desertion ?

Presumably those grounds would be coffee grounds?
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 10, 2018, 08:46:19 AM
As long as I get the shed and contents in the settlement I,m happy.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Railwaygun on March 10, 2018, 12:05:31 PM
will the Shed  be taking in lodgers?
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 10, 2018, 12:20:06 PM
That all depends on how nice she is, I do have standers you know,thats why I model in N gauge.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: first timer on March 18, 2018, 07:28:08 PM
Just been called out of my shed for tea, the best home made chicken and mushroom pie you could ever have. My wife is a good old fastioned cook tought by her X mother in law.

    Les.
Title: Re: The shed
Post by: Mito on March 18, 2018, 08:41:51 PM
Quote from: first timer on March 18, 2018, 07:28:08 PM
Just been called out of my shed for tea, the best home made chicken and mushroom pie you could ever have. My wife is a good old fastioned cook tought by her X mother in law.

    Les.

She must be missing you already :D