A little help with loco and coach choices please.

Started by Phoenix, March 02, 2018, 12:25:17 AM

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Karhedron

Chocolate and cream was not common in the late 50s. All the former GWR coaching stock had been repainted by that point and would have been either all-over crimson (suburban stock), crimson and cream (corridor stock) or Maroon (both types from 1957 onwards).

Chocolate and cream did make a comeback around this time on Mk1 coaches and the Western Region used such coaches for their principle expresses. A rake of these would look fine behind your Castle for example and are available RTR from Farish. Here is how they looked.

Quote from: ScottyStitch on September 29, 2015, 11:28:46 AM
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Karhedron

Quote from: longbow on March 02, 2018, 05:05:49 AM
Actually the Ivatt 2MT would have been an even rarer sight than a Jinty in the SW.

Not entirely true. The final batch of Ivatt 2MTs 2-6-0s were actually built at Swindon after nationalisation and were used to replace the last of the elderly Dean Goods on light freight duties. Some were even painted green by the WR after 1956.

However for something more classically western, I agree that a Pannier would probably be better.
Quote from: ScottyStitch on September 29, 2015, 11:28:46 AM
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

port perran

Hi Kevn
I do hope you are over the worst of the flu and that the weather isn't too bad.
We had , very unusually, a fair dollop of snow on Wednesday and Thursday but now it's thawing and quite windy.
I can't add a lot to what others have said.
If you sre going for a Jinty and want to stay West then the S&D is a good bet. Jinty's were certainly common on the Northern section (Bath GP down to Evercreech/ Temlecombe but not on passenger stock.
Indeed that line (or area) saw a very wide variety of locos in Jinty, MR 8Fs and Black 5s, SR WC and BB pacifics (rebuilt and originals), 9Fs and other standards, ex GW panniers and 22xx. The 22xx is available from Union Mills.
If you went further afield (say into N Cornwall) then a wide variety of ex SR and WR and standard locos were used.
If staying closer to home (near you), how about the Swanage Branch using SR M7s, Ns, light pacifics etc plus rh3 Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks plus various smaller standard designs. Passenger stock on the Swanage branch would be largely SR green or BR maroon.
Unfortunately, as others have said, the ex GW chocolate and cream stock was rare in the late 50s but was reinstated (late 50s into the 60s) on WR prestige trains which would suit a Castle or Hall.
The quintessential GWR train of the pre 50s era ie a green prarie tank with two chocolate and cream coaches was largely a thing of the past by 1950. They did look good though.
I'll stop rambling on now.
Martin
I'll get round to fixing it drekkly me 'ansome.

longbow

The Swindon-built 2MTs were based mostly in North Wales with just a handful based in Bristol, so they would have been rare birds in the South West.

Phoenix

 :hellosign:  :thankyousign:

Hi there,

Thank you so much for all your replies .... It is starting now to make a bit more sense to me, and I think I can start to get some ideas together.

I think the area will be Somerset and Dorset (I live in Dorset  :thumbsup: ) ,the era will be late 50's, and the track will go round and round, but with something inside for shunting, which I know nothing about, but am sure I will want to try.

I won't have a fiddle yard, as I am sure I will have shuffled off long before I will have enough stock to fill one  ;) Also, what I do get, I want to be seen in yards or sidings, not hidden behind a lump of hardboard 

I have a Gaugemaster 4 track controller, so my initial thoughts will be DC, with an outer loop for bigger express trains, inside that a double loop with station, and inside that, something for shunting.

The longest passenger train I would run would be 4, possibly 5 coaches, depending how long the station will be as the layout will not be enormously long. Also I don't want a train entering a tunnel at the right end before it has fully emerged from the tunnel on the left  :D

I think the main points are .....

1. BR late crest would be the main locos, and Graham Farish run better than Dapol generally. I think my next buy will be this

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/22436/graham-farish-372-032-n-gauge-castle-class-5070-sir-daniel-gooch-br-lined-green-late-crest

2. The Jinty would be OK on Somerset and Dorset, but a Pannier would be better.

The reason I was attracted to the Jinty over a Dapol 57xx is that I have had to return 3 Dapol 57xx so am not in favour of them at all, although they do look fab.

I have a Farish 64xx in GWR green, pulling a chocolate and cream autocoach round "Windmill Hill" and it runs really well. Perhaps I should wait for the Farish BR one.

http://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000398/1000589/1000640/1446726/Graham_Farish_N_Gauge_Steam_locos_UK_rail_era_5_BR_steam_Late_Crest_1957_1966_1957_1966/prodlist.aspx

4. Chocolate and cream would only be used on express trains (on the outer loop) and would be OK behind a Castle. (Thank you Karhedron .... also thanks for your comment on the Ivatt, as I have already bought one, It arrived about an hour ago  :D )

5. Maroon would be for suburban services on shorter trains. They would be Mk 1

6. Crimson and cream would be corridor coaches, on more mainline trains.

Thank you all for your help, and thank you John for your kind words on "Windmill Hill", and your ideas on Highbridge and Bridgewater. I know Bridgewater a bit, and will certainly look for info on your suggestions.

All best Wishes,

Wrap up warm !

Kevin







2.


Phoenix


Ha !

Thanks for that Mick ..... I think  :D I get a heap of cash on Monday, so keep your suggestions coming !!

If I get that, I need something for it to pull next. Goods wagons would be Ok, but I am avoiding them for the moment, as I don't know what industry I will be having.

Would this work ?

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/30271/dapol-2p-004-008-n-gauge-autocoach-br-crimson-cream-w194w

Many thanks

:thumbsup:




johnlambert

Just to add to your confusion.  The Chocolate and Cream, Western Region coach sets did not stay together for very long.  By the early 1960s I think the sets had been disbanded and the Chocolate and Cream coaches mixed with normal Maroon stock.  There were still a few Crimson and Cream Mk1 coaches around and it was possible to see (I have period photographs) a Castle pulling a train with all three coach liveries represented, although Maroon was the dominant colour.

The good news is that if you struggle to find all the coaches you want in matching liveries you can legitimately mix and match to a certain extent.  You can also mix Hawksworth and Collett coaches with BR Mk1s as they were used together.  Just remember that on the real thing the ex-GW design coaches would have been marshalled together as far as possible to minimise the number of gangway adaptors required to connect to the Mk1 coaches.

port perran

Quote from: Phoenix on March 02, 2018, 01:30:27 PM

Ha !

Thanks for that Mick ..... I think  :D I get a heap of cash on Monday, so keep your suggestions coming !!

If I get that, I need something for it to pull next. Goods wagons would be Ok, but I am avoiding them for the moment, as I don't know what industry I will be having.

Would this work ?

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/30271/dapol-2p-004-008-n-gauge-autocoach-br-crimson-cream-w194w

Many thanks

:thumbsup:
Yes, ideally with a 64xx pannier or a 14xx 0-4-2T.
I'll get round to fixing it drekkly me 'ansome.

Phoenix

#24
Thanks Martin,

Just to add to the confusion, I have just seen this, era 5, BR Maroon autocoach, which may be better with the late crest 64xx   :confused2:

Many thanks as well for your reply earlier, which has given me lots of ideas  :thumbsup:

All best wishes
Kevin

d-a-n

You don't need to be too slavish with what crest the smaller locos are, some locos survived well into the 60s with the small crest.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/131735-early-crests-in-the-60s/

Read post #3 about the pannier tank in GWR into the 1960s!!

Newportnobby

Quote from: Phoenix on March 02, 2018, 02:16:07 PM
Thanks Martin,

Just to add to the confusion, I have just seen this, era 5, BR Maroon autocoach, which may be better with the late crest 64xx   :confused2:

Many thanks as well for your reply earlier, which has given me lots of ideas  :thumbsup:

All best wishes
Kevin

the Farish autocoach 374-611 in maroon would be ideal as it has the running number W228W :) :)

Karhedron

Quote from: Phoenix on March 02, 2018, 01:30:27 PM
Would this work ?

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/30271/dapol-2p-004-008-n-gauge-autocoach-br-crimson-cream-w194w

Crimson and cream on Autocoaches was a fairly short-lived occurrence. As suburban stock, they should have been painted plain crimson. The WR were ordered to cease and desist around 1952, after which the autocoaches were turned out in plain crimson, and then maroon.

If you are looking for an autocoach to go with a late-crest loco, the Farish maroon one is probably best as this style of autocoach lasted longer in service than the Dapol ones.
Quote from: ScottyStitch on September 29, 2015, 11:28:46 AM
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

port perran

Farish 64xx with Dapol maroon autocoach:

As well as being more accurate era wise, I think the maroon livery rather suits these carriages.
I'll get round to fixing it drekkly me 'ansome.

Phoenix

 :NGaugersRule:

Thanks guys, the fog is starting to clear !!!

Cheers John. I like rakes of coaches to be the same livery, but it is nice to know that I could if need be have an odd one or two in the mix

And thanks Dan for the info, and the link re crests. It seems as others have said, the big posh locos would have been kept up to date, but it would not be unusual for a little old loco used for shunting to have its old crest, and on a realistic layout, to be pretty heavily weathered

Also, I have now got my shopping list for Monday.

This BR green 64xx (Thanks for the great photo Martin)

https://www.themodelcentre.com/371-987

This autocoach

http://www.petersspares.com/graham-farish-374611-br-auto-trailer-br-maroon-n-gauge.ir

I thought the crimson/cream one would have possibly done, but the maroon would be better as you all said, and then I found this one

Last buy will be this BR green Castle "Sir Daniel Gooch"

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/22436/graham-farish-372-032-n-gauge-castle-class-5070-sir-daniel-gooch-br-lined-green-late-crest

Who needs food and heating  :worried:  :'(  :worried:

Next month it will be a set of two maroon mk 1 coaches for the Ivatt 2MT which arrived today, I have been playing with, and is AWSOME !

I have seen a set somewhere, by someone, and must try to track them down.

Also I must get a rake of chocolate/cream coaches for my express Castle (Thank you for the picture Kahedron  :) ) or maybe crimson/cream

Wishing you all the very best
Kevin



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