Which coaches please?

Dsolds · November 30, 2017, 01:44:46 PM

A quick question to the more knowledgeable if I may. Moving over from OO gauge I have the limited edition Flying Scotsman with double tenders in OO which I would like to re-create properly in N Gauge. The loco is one challenge (where to acquire the 2nd tender) but more importantly, which coaches would it have hauled please?

I recall the double tender was only in use between about 1966 and 1974 ish so I am thinking that blood/custard would be too early, as would the Gresley Teaks so that leaves me thinking probably maroon, or at the latter years blue and grey ??

Any advice please chaps? Thanks. Dom.

Karhedron · November 30, 2017, 04:23:27 PM

The double tender might be a bit tricky if you are going for the Dapol model because the motor is in the tender and connects to the loco via a cardan shaft. You might be able to pick up a non-runner somewhere to get a second tender but it could be tricky.

Blood and Custard had gone by 1966 and even Maroon was on the way out then. Blue/Grey Mk1s seem to have been common but you may be able to find other coaches too. I seem to recall Pullmans being used occasionally but I would need to hunt for pictures.

Maroon Mk1s too early in your specified period.

Papyrus · November 30, 2017, 06:43:58 PM

Pullmans, dear chap, it's got to be Pullmans...

Cheers,

Chris

PS. Why isn't it Pullmen?

Dsolds · November 30, 2017, 07:25:26 PM

Oh yes, I love the Pullman's but to look right they need to have working table lamps which is a bit of a challenge for me.

Plus of course the Pullman era would mean a single tender......just don't ask me to count the rivets

Pullmans or Pullmen ? I could go into it since my dear old mum was an English teacher all her working life.......but life's too short

And I didn't much care for the technicalities of a very complicated language either......but don't tell Mother

Webbo · November 30, 2017, 07:58:09 PM

Quote from: Dsolds on November 30, 2017, 07:25:26 PM
Oh yes, I love the Pullman's but to look right they need to have working table lamps which is a bit of a challenge for me.

Plus of course the Pullman era would mean a single tender......just don't ask me to count the rivets

Pullmans or Pullmen ? I could go into it since my dear old mum was an English teacher all her working life.......but life's too short And I didn't much care for the technicalities of a very complicated language either......but don't tell Mother

Pullpersons nowadays, I'm afraid.

All seriousness aside, Pullmans is the correct plural even in this age of political correctness. George Pullman was the man who originally designed and manufactured the Pullman.

Webbo

Bob Tidbury · November 30, 2017, 09:34:41 PM

Changeing the question slightly can anyone tell me what coaches would be correct behind a Union Mills Dukedog in iether of the liveries made .
I expect Karhedron will soon have the answer on here for us.
Bob Tidbury

Karhedron · December 01, 2017, 09:09:55 AM

Did someone call?

Dukedogs primarily worked on the Cambrian which was far from the hustle a bustle of the GWR mainline. Older stock was generally the order of the day. Union Mills offer the Dukedog in post-war GWR green and early BR black. In GWR days, elderly toplights and and 1930s Collett bow or flat-ended stock would have been common but this is not available RTR. The Dapol Collett coaches in post-war GWR crest) livery are the closest you will find.

By BR days, these would still have been around but would have been mixed with some Hawksworth coaches and maybe the odd Mk1 vehicle. By this point they would have been in crimson and cream livery. The photos below shows the sort of eclectic mix of stock one would have expected to see on this line.

The Dukedogs also worked miscellaneous freight duties.

Birmingham

Newton Abbot

Their light weight made the Dukedogs popular on early railtours so they could often be seen well away from their traditional stomping grounds. This is handy if you want to run something a little bit different.

Steven B · December 01, 2017, 09:37:09 AM

You can get tender chassis and bodies from BR Lines.

The second tender was only used for carrying water. The top of it was plated over - as seen in a couple of the pictures above.

By the 1980s it was in a fetching shade of blue/grey to match the coaches of the time.

The tender is now used by LNER Class A4 4464 Bittern.

Steven B

Steven B.

Dsolds · December 01, 2017, 10:27:37 AM

Quote from: Steven B on December 01, 2017, 09:37:09 AM
The tender is now used by LNER Class A4 4464 Bittern.

Steven B

I never knew that. Thanks for the link

Bob Tidbury · December 01, 2017, 01:51:34 PM

Karhedron I knew you would have the answer.
Bob Tidbury

Carmont · December 01, 2017, 02:55:37 PM

I have a picture in one of my books of FS at Waverley, in 1968, heading south with two tenders. The first three carriages at least are blue/grey.

RailGooner · December 01, 2017, 06:21:47 PM

Quote from: Dsolds on November 30, 2017, 07:25:26 PM
..
Plus of course the Pullman era would mean a single tender
...

Quote from: Karhedron on November 30, 2017, 04:23:27 PM
..
I seem to recall Pullmans being used occasionally but I would need to hunt for pictures.

Aren't these double tender with Pullmans?

Quote from: Karhedron on November 30, 2017, 04:23:27 PM
..

...

@Karhedron @Dsolds

Dsolds · December 01, 2017, 07:26:53 PM

They certainly are, and based on those photos and Rule No. 1 That's what I intend to run

alibuchan · December 02, 2017, 09:54:41 PM

You can get a 3D Printed water tender body from shapeways (shameless plug) fits on to a Farish 8 Wheeled LNER tender Chassis which you can pick up for a few quid from BR lines or Ebay. Managed to arrange access to it through a contact at a preserved line when it was dumped out of the way and went for it with a tape measure.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/86XEYWAMS/lner-water-tender-and-couplings?optionId=41865333&li=marketplace.

The couplings that are included are useless, but I had a PC screw up and lost the original CAD files, so cant remove them. Best thing to do is just chuck them away.

Alistair

Dsolds · December 24, 2017, 12:47:47 PM

OK Fellas, so I'm getting closer to this now. I bought the 2nd tender body from Shapeways, got a 4 axle chassis for it from BR Lines. All good so far. I don't actually have the Scotsman loco yet, mainly because I can't decide on which one to buy. I'm not a lover of the Dapol cardan shaft arrangement but alternatives would pretty much all be secondhand and thus not exactly easy to come by.

Anyway, the carriages. I got some S/H ones off EBAY so I could see them in the flesh and I definitely prefer the older Farish Pullmans. The newer Farish ones just don't seem anywhere near as good - see the 2 sets of 3 below. So my question is, does anyone know the numbers for these items please? I currently have 2 of the 0646 and one 0656 (brake end composite). I don't know much about what other carriages were available in this range at the time but would like to end up with a rake of 8 to 10 in some kind of set rather than just random carriages. Appreciate any help you can give here.

The older ones

The newer ones