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Author Topic: DC wiring a simple control panel  (Read 334 times)

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Offline newportnobby

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DC wiring a simple control panel
« on: October 23, 2017, 11:30:00 am »
I’m seeking your help again please.

I’m thinking I will need 2 control panels for my big layout which has 2 ovals on a lower level running into 4 road fiddle yards. The fiddle yards are comprised of 14 points and there are 6 points at the front of the layout.

The upper level branch line is a bi-directional single line running into a fiddle yard comprising of 11 points and there are 16 in the scenic section of it.

From what I can gather the wires required to run into a control panel are purely the wires from the ‘A’ and ‘B’ soldering points on the Seep PM1s which are then soldered to the studs either side of the points on the diagram.
So my thinking is that 47 points x 2 wires is a bit much for one panel and therefore a panel for each level would be better.
I will be using pluggable terminal strip so the control panel can be detached from the baseboard framing if needed.

What does the team think please?

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 11:52:15 am »
I find that for fiddle yards some form of point routing is easier to operate - ie. one button for each fiddle yard line throws all the necessary points in one go.    Less wiring from the control panel, but it does mean you need a diode matrix to actually route the button to all the points that need to be thrown. The diode matrix and the  wiring can all sit locally to the point motors.   You need a reasonably hefty CDU (or I have individual CDUs per point which also means I only need thin low current wiring from the control panel).
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:54:30 am by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline dannyboy

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 11:54:13 am »
Your idea sounds okay Mick. My layout is 12' long and comprises two ovals, with 4 sets of sidings and a total of 22 points and two crossovers, (at the moment!), - all Kato Unitrack. There is also a tram track, which will double as a programming track when necessary. Because of space restrictions, I have two control panels split into a 'left' and 'right', i.e. the 'left' board controls the left side of the layout and the 'right' the right hand side. The control boards are mounted under the layout and pull out on runners like a computer shelf. I too have used pluggable terminal strips so the control panels can be detached if necessary. Good luck with it.  :thumbsup:
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.

Offline Malc

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 12:02:59 pm »
Even using 2 boards, 96 connections is a lot of pluggable choc strips. What I did was use kitchen cupboard hinges so that the panel would swing 180 degrees. That way, the panel didn’t need to detach from the framing to get at the back. I crimped O rings on the end of the wires and used chrome nuts and bolts for the studs.
I'm not sure if life is passing me by, or trying to run me over.

Offline newportnobby

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 01:04:39 pm »
Just thought. Add in a dozen latchable push to make switches and some SPDT switches for moving power between controllers :doh:

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 01:22:21 pm »
Just thought. Add in a dozen latchable push to make switches and some SPDT switches for moving power between controllers :doh:

I'm still using my remaining stocks of 4-switch latching frames (ie. "radio buttons") that I bought from Maplin back in the 80s and 90s.    fitted with 3x DPDT for  three controller "cab control" and a forth dummy switch to switch the section off entirely. 

The switches are still around but the metal frames to latch them together are trickier to track down now.

This kind of thing (though this doesn't seem to show the latching bar that makes them a group of Radio buttons):
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline themadhippy

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 01:25:08 pm »
Quote
I will be using pluggable terminal strip so the control panel can be detached from the baseboard framing if needed.
or a nice 150way veam plug and socket
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 01:27:22 pm by themadhippy »

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 03:29:33 pm »
I’m seeking your help again please.

I’m thinking I will need 2 control panels for my big layout which has 2 ovals on a lower level running into 4 road fiddle yards. The fiddle yards are comprised of 14 points and there are 6 points at the front of the layout.

The upper level branch line is a bi-directional single line running into a fiddle yard comprising of 11 points and there are 16 in the scenic section of it.

From what I can gather the wires required to run into a control panel are purely the wires from the ‘A’ and ‘B’ soldering points on the Seep PM1s which are then soldered to the studs either side of the points on the diagram.
So my thinking is that 47 points x 2 wires is a bit much for one panel and therefore a panel for each level would be better.
I will be using pluggable terminal strip so the control panel can be detached from the baseboard framing if needed.

What does the team think please?

NPN, I'm a great fan of DC wiring of the simplest kind.  I would be tempted to make a panel for each as they sound like, effectively, separate layouts.  That way, if you change one layout later on it only affects one panel.

You mention 47 points x 2 wires.  I wonder if you could reduce this by wiring some of the points together.  Obviously, crossovers, if any, will be done this way, but, if the fiddle yards have loops then each loop's entry/exit point can be wired together.  I did this with the Kato points on my US 'Sandrock' layout which has 30 points controlled by 21 levers.  It's a bit of a simple way of PARTLY (sorry for the capitals - the only way I could find to show emphasis) achieving some of the benefits of this very clever route-setting system:

I find that for fiddle yards some form of point routing is easier to operate - ie. one button for each fiddle yard line throws all the necessary points in one go.    Less wiring from the control panel, but it does mean you need a diode matrix to actually route the button to all the points that need to be thrown. The diode matrix and the  wiring can all sit locally to the point motors.   You need a reasonably hefty CDU (or I have individual CDUs per point which also means I only need thin low current wiring from the control panel).

Best wishes.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)

Offline newportnobby

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 03:54:31 pm »
All answers much appreciated. Thank you.
Hardly any crossovers at all on either level, and as fiddle yard loops are split into at least two for shorter trains to be stored, I don't particularly like the idea of both end points of each road being operated in unison (not sure my brain cell would remember things).
No need for IR or echo location in the fiddle yards - see........................
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050

Quote
I will be using pluggable terminal strip so the control panel can be detached from the baseboard framing if needed.

or a nice 150way veam plug and socket


Sorry - goes completely against my simple mind processes and I haven't a clue what one is either :dunce: :no:

The control panel(s) will be attached to the baseboard framing by creation of a keyhole fitting so it/they just lift off a round head screw.

Anyone who is remotely professional is probably having a conniption fit/requiring medical attention by now :laugh:

Offline Gary Burcombe

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 05:09:41 pm »
I have made two detachable control panels so far.  One is a simple panel for controlling points (x9) with LED  position indication on one of the sectional boards of my main loft layout, which will be DCC eventually.  The other is for my roundy roundy, DC test track with two ovals, some sidings and a four road fiddle yard (two per oval).  This panel controls eleven points, also has LED position indication and five rotary switches for cab control to four controllers.  They are both mounted the same as your idea of keyholes and roundhead screws, quite large screws in fact.  I have used D-sub connectors, one each end of the panel, 1 x 37 pin and 1 x 25 pin and there are some redundant pins too. 

Offline PLD

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2017, 05:19:38 pm »
Two questions spring to mind...

Are the two parts of the layout completely independent with no interchange between the two? If yes two separate panels is the way to go for simplicity and clarity of operation. If stock need to move between the two, a single larger panel may be the better option.
Is the layout intended to be operated by a single person or two operators? If one a single panel may be more convenient having everything together, if two, it may be easier for each to have their own panel so they don't get in each others way.

Offline newportnobby

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2017, 08:30:04 pm »

Are the two parts of the layout completely independent with no interchange between the two?

Correct.


Is the layout intended to be operated by a single person or two operators?

Could be either.

Offline port perran

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2017, 08:34:47 pm »
Are the two parts of the layout completely independent with no interchange between the two?
Correct.


Is the layout intended to be operated by a single person or two operators?

Could be either.
Two consoles I say. Then you can be like Rick Wakeman with his keyboards running one layout with the left hand and the other with your right hand  :D.
Simple.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 08:47:01 pm by port perran »
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Offline newportnobby

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2017, 08:43:54 pm »
Are the two parts of the layout completely independent with no interchange between the two?
Correct.


Is the layout intended to be operated by a single person or two operators?

Could be either.
Two consoles I say. Then you can be like Rick Wake,an with his keyboards running one layout with the left hand and the other with your right hand  :D.
Simple.

Excellent. Who says we blokes can't multi task? ;D ;D

Offline PLD

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Re: DC wiring a simple control panel
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2017, 09:57:17 pm »
Are the two parts of the layout completely independent with no interchange between the two?
Correct.


Is the layout intended to be operated by a single person or two operators?

Could be either.
Two consoles I say. Then you can be like Rick Wakeman with his keyboards running one layout with the left hand and the other with your right hand  :D.
Simple.
agreed  :thumbsup:

 

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