is it me or has the world of n gauge lost the plot?

[Carmont]

These must be the listing mentioned by the OP:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-GAUGE-DAPOL-CLASS-26-FULL-YELLOW-ENDS-/162699087864?hash=item25e19f0ff8:g:frAAAOSwTl9Z1lXQ

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-GAUGE-DAPOL-CLASS-26-SNOWPLOUGHS-AND-HEAD-CODE-DISKS-/162699084759?hash=item25e19f03d7:g:DfMAAOSwEu1Z1lUS

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-GAUGE-DAPOL-CLASS-26-RAILFREIGHT-SCOTTY-DOG-/162699081076?hash=item25e19ef574:g:LJwAAOSwvvRZ1lQ6

£380, £300 and £300, respectively. Postage was free, mind you...........

[Delboy]

If you click on the bid history of the 3 items above you get confirmation that the same 2 people were bidding for them and were obviously desperate to attain the items thus causing the bidding war. As previously mentioned, as a seller, all you need are 2 such buyers and the price soon shoots up.

[Newportnobby]

I'm sorry, but if somebody is not prepared to hunt around, no matter what they're buying, then the fault lies with them if they get stung.

This also applies to anybody who uses there local model shop (normally selling items at full price) rather than one of the box shifters.

True, but I do give them a chance. For instance about 4 years ago I went to my local model shop and said I wished to purchase 5 locos (some £380 at the time) and would they consider giving me any discount of their (almost) full RRP. They looked at me like I was something they'd trodden in and said they were not going to make a loss. I just said "OK - I'll get them from Rails of Sheffield" and walked out. I didn't expect a full discount and always try to support my local shop but they offered nothing at all. Even 5% might have clinched it for them. For sure - use them or lose them but if they can't be sensible I'm not going to subsidise them

[red_death]

I'm sorry, but if somebody is not prepared to hunt around, no matter what they're buying, then the fault lies with them if they get stung.

This also applies to anybody who uses there local model shop (normally selling items at full price) rather than one of the box shifters.

True, but I do give them a chance. For instance about 4 years ago I went to my local model shop and said I wished to purchase 5 locos (some £380 at the time) and would they consider giving me any discount of their (almost) full RRP. They looked at me like I was something they'd trodden in and said they were not going to make a loss. I just said "OK - I'll get them from Rails of Sheffield" and walked out. I didn't expect a full discount and always try to support my local shop but they offered nothing at all. Even 5% might have clinched it for them. For sure - use them or lose them but if they can't be sensible I'm not going to subsidise them

Sorry to be blunt folks but this is why we are losing local/independent model shops. No one likes paying more than they have to but if all we focus on is price then the inevitable consequence is we will be left with a very few large players.

The idea that someone selling at RRP (or at a level more than say Rails or Hattons) is raking in the profit is frankly absurd - these are not people driving round in Ferraris (or if they are, then money did not come from selling model trains!). As to whether you are subsidising them  - of course you are though the normal phrase would be allowing them to make some profit to pay for their expenses!

Retail mark up goes to pay for infrastructure (premises/services/website), staff wages, other unavoidable costs eg rates/electricity etc.  Hopefully for the shop owners there is a profit at the end of it...

Cheers, Mike

[Delboy]

Good point well made by Mike.
I agree wholeheartedly. Whilst on holiday in Cornwall recently i was looking forward to going to a model shop i had sourced on the internet, only to find as I got there that it was boarded up. Sad state of affairs to witness these local shops going to the wall due to lack of support. 

[Rabbitaway]

I am very much in agreement with Newportnobby on this subject. A 5% discount was not an unreasonable expectation if buying five locos. He would still be paying more than the two big players to support a smaller retailer.

Smaller model shops can be successful if they understand and react to the changes in the retail market. Many do discount 15% to 20% and by good business and marketing and having specialist services do well. They can make good margins on the specialist services and income because they increase the volume of sales on normal stock at reasonable prices.

If a retailer does not adapt, react and use all the sales and marketing tools in this current on-line environment they will go out of business as this is the commercial reality. I see no reason why us as customers we should support businesses that are either poorly managed, not customer focused or offer no specialist servies. Thing such as inflexible openings hours, rude staff and no web site are just not acceptable. Unfortunately these issues are far more common in the model trade than with other retailers.

[Claude Dreyfus]

I certainly agree with you that retailers in general need to adapt to survive. I live in a small town with a large commuter population. That means the kiss of death to shops that insist on 9-5 Monday to Friday opening as most of the population are at work. So opening hours, a website and reasonable range are important.  Not being rude/ignorant is vital...although a good many traders seem to miss this golden rule!

Price is an entirely different situation. Over recent years rates and rent have seen a huge increase and footfall in shops has generally decreased (easier to buy with the click of a mouse) - the price and lack of availability of parking does not help. Some shops may not have the scope to offer discounts - in any form. If not getting a discount makes something unaffordable, then go elsewhere; but seemingly 'punishing' a shop for not being able to compete with the big boxshifters or making that 5% discount (which could be pretty much all of their profit) does not strike me as particularly fair.

[austinbob]

I know I've said this before on this forum but I rarely buy stuff from the online box shifters anymore. I've had too many bad experiences of poor quality or non functional product, together with the hassle of getting replacement, repair or refund. Not really the box shifters' fault but more the fault of poor manufacturer's quality and reliability.
So I ALWAYS buy my locos from a trusted retailer in person. A retailer who allows me to watch him test the loco, sometimes several examples, and choose one I'm happy with. Ok it costs a bit more but I think worth it.
I use eBay a fair amount for second hand or out of production items and also special items sold by the likes of Ozymandias of this forum. I always research prices before a bid and set a max bid that I stick to.

[njee20]

So I ALWAYS buy my locos from a trusted retailer in person. A retailer who allows me to watch him test the loco, sometimes several examples, and choose one I'm happy with. Ok it costs a bit more but I think worth it.

The flipside of that is that few of us have a model shop within really close range, so in the event something does have to be returned it's actually more hassle to return it to a physical shop.

Gaugemaster is my nearest shop, who are good, but IMO overpriced. They will discount if asked, but won't match RoS/Hattons prices as a general rule. However they're a 30 minute drive away, so in the event I have to return an item I have to find time to get back there out of my limited personal time.

Conversely if I buy online then all I have to do is stick it in a jiffy bag and post it off, perhaps using their pre-paid postage. I'm a relaxed chap, I accept that stuff doesn't work periodically, so this doesn't really bother me.

Were there a 'proper' local model shop (in the village for argument's sake) I'd like to say I'd support them, but the reality is that I'd probably buy on price and go elsewhere except on real incidental stuff like rail joiners, or paints where postage is usually prohibitive unless you're adding to an existing order. I've never had any actual service from a shop, they've always just been somewhere that vends stuff. It's nice to have a bit of a mooch and look at shiny stuff in the shops, but I don't tend to do much else.

[austinbob]

My 'local' model shop is 20 plus miles away. It doesn't just vend stuff as you put it though. The owner, and his dad before him, is an enthusiast and very knowledgeable of most things N and OO gauge. The shop very much has a club atmosphere.
I don't mind the country road drive to get there, but then I'm retired so can usually afford the time to visit the shop. In fact I often just pop in for a browse and for news of things to come.
I'm just lucky to be in this situation I suppose.

[JBM37404]

Constructing a small layout at present has seen me hunting around for S/H as I have always done. Shocked to find prices are in some cases more than new RRP for Bachmann G/F stock. Key to saving most as others have said is patience. I won't pay 3 figures for anything which is my policy. Maybe some others remember the lima £20 locos years ago. Back then I stocked up and learnt detailing renumbering and repainting basics but I'm dammed if I'm going to pay £200 plus for some thing which at least will have light weathering or a total strip of paint and filing and drilling attacking it! Maybe I'm in the minority as I'm not a collector which is the lead market for the major manufacturers.

I also am in the rare boat where a stockist referred to as a box shifter is my local shop and always has been....

[Newportnobby]

I am very much in agreement with Newportnobby on this subject.

@Rabbitaway
For some reason the 'Thank You' button does not seem to exist on this page for me, so 'Thank You'

Having taken early retirement and cutting my cloth to suit my pocket I will not be told where and how I should spend my hard earned nest egg money. When I was in full time employment things were a little different but I still never paid full RRP for anything. What I can save on a full priced locomotive will allow me to afford a RevolutioN trains 'B' class tanker or pay for fuel for my car for 3 weeks so think on that awhile! How many people just buy a washing machine, television etc without shopping around?
When I was in the market for 25 or so electrofrog points I made a spreadsheet showing prices in various emporiums such as Rails, Hattons etc. I happened to be in York and visiting Monk Bar models and, after a pleasant chat with the manager, he made an offer we were both happy with and I emptied his stock of cetain items!

[njee20]

My 'local' model shop is 20 plus miles away. It doesn't just vend stuff as you put it though. The owner, and his dad before him, is an enthusiast and very knowledgeable of most things N and OO gauge. The shop very much has a club atmosphere.

It certainly wasn't a disparaging comment (if it was read as such), I just personally place extremely low value on that enthusiasm. I have plenty of enthusiastic friends I can talk to about modelling, a shop is to buy stuff from. I've never sought advice or anything, which are the other obvious reasons to visit a 'bricks and mortar' shop. As you say though, I'm far from retired, have a young family, a busy job and two hobbies which are quite time-hungry. As such my time is extremely precious. If I can buy a loco online whilst on the train and get it delivered to my front door, versus taking at least 2 hours out of my day, and paying extra for that privilege, why would I?

[daffy]

 

[austinbob]

My 'local' model shop is 20 plus miles away. It doesn't just vend stuff as you put it though. The owner, and his dad before him, is an enthusiast and very knowledgeable of most things N and OO gauge. The shop very much has a club atmosphere.

It certainly wasn't a disparaging comment (if it was read as such), I just personally place extremely low value on that enthusiasm. I have plenty of enthusiastic friends I can talk to about modelling, a shop is to buy stuff from. I've never sought advice or anything, which are the other obvious reasons to visit a 'bricks and mortar' shop. As you say though, I'm far from retired, have a young family, a busy job and two hobbies which are quite time-hungry. As such my time is extremely precious. If I can buy a loco online whilst on the train and get it delivered to my front door, versus taking at least 2 hours out of my day, and paying extra for that privilege, why would I?

We all have different priorities. Done all the busy stuff in my time. Time to relax and enjoy.