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Author Topic: Creative dilemma  (Read 633 times)

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Offline Skyline2uk

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Creative dilemma
« on: August 10, 2017, 05:44:40 pm »
Good afternoon

I hope to gather the collective views, opinions and wisdom of the mighty forum with regards to a problem I find myself in.

I have been attempting my first ever locomotive re-paint.

Stripping and primer coat stages have gone well, but I have now noticed a rather fundamental fact;

I have the body of a (presumably) early class 57, not a class 47.

This throws my whole choice of livery out of whack.

As far as I can tell, the only difference is the lack of three body side indentations on each side, presumably for access reasons.

The question is; do I proceed as originally planned? I am not sure if I am up to the task of reproducing the livery, but if I am I am worried the inaccuracy will dig at me.

How much of a big deal is it if I turn out a 57 in a 47 guise?

I don't really want to spend more money trying to obtain a 47 body (but I will need a chassis if the paint job is ok).

I suppose I could try a 57 livery, but none really appeal.

Skyline2uk





LNER A3 and A4....check
Deltic.....check
HST set......surely?!

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=4129.msg46795#msg46795

Offline Nick

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 05:59:00 pm »
I'm not sure anybody can answer this question except yourself.

I'm not knowledgeable about the details you are talking about, but, even if I was, it wouldn't bother me to proceed with my original intention. Others can't remotely countenance a wrong shaped rivet or slightly off paint shade.

The question is; do I proceed as originally planned? I am not sure if I am up to the task of reproducing the livery, but if I am I am worried the inaccuracy will dig at me.
Nobody can tell you whether it'll dig at you sufficiently to outweigh the pride in a livery well-applied. Just as they can't tell you whether a slightly wobbly paint job will ruin your pleasure. Only you know that. It's all a matter of personal preference.

Sorry...
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline austinbob

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2017, 06:21:25 pm »
I think Nick is absolutely right. So if, when its painted, it looks and feels to you like a 47 then that's all that matters. Chances are no one else will think it's not a 47. Bit like wallpapering. You know where the errors are but nobody else will notice anyway.
 :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline Ben A

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2017, 06:37:28 pm »

Hi Skyline,

I am not sure how much you know or don't know, so please forgive me if I am teaching you to suck eggs.

The original 47s had three handholds/footsteps let into the sides to enable fitters to climb up to the roof, but with the advent of electricification in the late 1960s they were rapidly filled in, so from BR Blue on most 47s had lost them.

By the time the 47s were converted to 57s there had been some other changes:  the bufferbeams had been cut away, high intensity headlights had been added and the headcode boxes had been plated over or made completely flush.

When some 47s were converted to 57s they had a revised exhaust arrangement added to the roof.  Some of the later conversions for Virgin and FGW also had revised cooler group grilles - these are etched metal on the Farish models.

However, the Freightliner 57s (as modelled by Farish too) retained the pairs of large grilles each side for the cooler groups.

So it really depends on which 57 you're starting with, what livery you want for your 47, and how willing you are to overlook the detail changes.

HTH

Cheers

Ben A.



Offline NeMo

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2017, 06:37:54 pm »
The question is; do I proceed as originally planned? I am not sure if I am up to the task of reproducing the livery, but if I am I am worried the inaccuracy will dig at me.

There are quite a few detail differences between a 47 and a 57, not just the body but also the roof and the bogies, and depending on the era being modelled, there will be differences on the cab as well in terms of things like lights and radio telephone antennas.

So if you create your models for others to critique, then you probably will have to put up with a certain number of smart-alecky comments! We sometimes call those critics "rivet counters" but that isn't entirely fair -- authenticity does matter if that was your goal.

One solution might be a plausible, but fictional, livery. Freightliner grey for example might suit the Class 57 body shape rather well, and it would also be quite easy to do. Indeed, if you can't get the decals, there's even Freightliner unbranded grey that'd do the job nicely! There were certainly Class 47s in this livery, and the 57s were rebuilt at about the right time, but ended up in Freightliner green instead. Had things been a bit different, why not the grey instead?

As @nick states, the pride that comes from a well-applied livery outweighs any minor quibbles over authenticity, especially if you're breathing new life into an old model that otherwise doesn't have much use in your layout.

Cheers, NeMo

Offline Skyline2uk

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2017, 07:09:17 pm »
Thanks gents, all responses so far are very helpful.

@Ben A and @NeMo

It would seem from your excellent detailed responses it would be beneficial to show you guys some photos...









Sorry they are on there side, hoping clear enough for identifying.

I believe it's an early Farish 57 Freighliner body?

Skyline2uk
LNER A3 and A4....check
Deltic.....check
HST set......surely?!

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=4129.msg46795#msg46795

Offline Nick

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2017, 07:10:29 pm »
Another option, depending on your interest and skill level, is to "kit bash" the body you possess by adding or removing any details you might find particularly unacceptable with the aid of some filing, Plasticard, Microstrip, filler, or whatever.

For example, on another side of my modelling bench, I am building a model of the Apollo recovery helo, "Old 66". No manufacturer produces a Sea King in this configuration, so there's work to be done with photo-etched parts, aftermarket decals, and various additions and removals. At the end, it won't be 100% "accurate", but it'll be the best representation I can achieve with my skill  level and amount of effort I'm prepared to put in, and hopefully I'll be pleased!
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline Skyline2uk

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2017, 07:21:58 pm »
Another option, depending on your interest and skill level, is to "kit bash" the body you possess by adding or removing any details you might find particularly unacceptable with the aid of some filing, Plasticard, Microstrip, filler, or whatever.

For example, on another side of my modelling bench, I am building a model of the Apollo recovery helo, "Old 66". No manufacturer produces a Sea King in this configuration, so there's work to be done with photo-etched parts, aftermarket decals, and various additions and removals. At the end, it won't be 100% "accurate", but it'll be the best representation I can achieve with my skill  level and amount of effort I'm prepared to put in, and hopefully I'll be pleased!

This had crossed my mind, the principle detail being these steps. I do have an identical body (already messed up in another way) which I could experiment on.

Skyline2uk
LNER A3 and A4....check
Deltic.....check
HST set......surely?!

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=4129.msg46795#msg46795

Offline escafeld

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2017, 08:14:19 pm »
The original 47s had three handholds/footsteps let into the sides to enable fitters to climb up to the roof, but with the advent of electricification in the late 1960s they were rapidly filled in, so from BR Blue on most 47s had lost them.

From memory I believe that the majority of 47's didn't have these handholds/footsteps plated over.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2017, 09:08:17 pm »
I believe it's an early Farish 57 Freighliner body?

Certainly looks like one. Absence of hand-holds/footsteps on the body rules out an early Class 47, and the later ones have these plated over, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

Cheers, NeMo

Offline Ben A

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2017, 09:29:29 pm »

Hi Skyline,

Depending on your point of view, you may be in luck.

That body appears to be the un-retooled Farish 57, which was basically a painted late-47 body.  There is no representation of the roof modifications, and it has the original bufferbeams.

So actually, this body is far more like a 47 than a 57.

I do not know enough about the original 47s to be able to help much with some of the more subtle details around boiler ports (I think they vary depending on the boiler fitted) and your bodyshell has the non-working moulded headlight that should be simple enough to carve off.

Cheers

Ben A.




Offline tunneroner61

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2017, 11:24:29 pm »
I agree with escafeld. Just a quick google of 47 pix shows that the footsteps were not plated over in later life - even as the later 47/7 (as converted for RES ) they still have the footsteps. The only pics I have found of a 47 with plated footsteps is of a Colas liveried one - 47727, 47749  but my search has not been exhaustive.

Offline escafeld

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2017, 12:09:17 am »
I agree with escafeld. Just a quick google of 47 pix shows that the footsteps were not plated over in later life - even as the later 47/7 (as converted for RES ) they still have the footsteps. The only pics I have found of a 47 with plated footsteps is of a Colas liveried one - 47727, 47749  but my search has not been exhaustive.

I have just been checking and found
47258 in Freightliner Green in 1999 with no sign of the footsteps
47508 SS Great Britain with the top two footsteps plated over in BR Blue and subsequent re-liveries.

Offline Skyline2uk

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2017, 07:31:38 am »
 :thankyousign: everybody for your advice and knowledge

I think I have found a way to "leave it up to fate", as it were.

I am looking at a cheap (for now) Farish 47 that has already been re-painted and is on a serviced chassis.

If I can procure this then I will strip that body and use it. If not, based on the knowledge provided above I will attempt a later version of the livery as seen on the loco in the mid ninties. That way, the inaccuracies with the body steps could in theory be explained away!

Skyline2uk
LNER A3 and A4....check
Deltic.....check
HST set......surely?!

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=4129.msg46795#msg46795

Offline Skyline2uk

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Re: Creative dilemma
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2017, 09:29:14 pm »
Evening all

So I decided to continue with this project.

It's not been plain sailing, and I will need to take some steps backwards, but I have learnt a lot and that was the main point.

None of what I have bought isn't re-usable. And I may yet get a decent result, but I suspect it's time to "walk away" from this one for a bit.

Cheers

Skyline2uk
LNER A3 and A4....check
Deltic.....check
HST set......surely?!

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=4129.msg46795#msg46795

 

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