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Author Topic: Help please for poor running  (Read 1387 times)

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Offline Dr Al

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2017, 04:46:07 pm »
Agree with Austinbob - check current on DC.

4-CEP at full speed should draw absolutely no more than 75-100mA, and likely less, and the DMU likewise (same drive, same motor). Some 4-CEPs have had motors fail, and the first symptoms of this would be high current draw.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline daversmth

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2017, 05:01:32 pm »
Thanks again for the response.
On DC, The EMU will start to run at slow speed drawing 40mA, which I am guessing sounds reasonable.
I only have a short DC test track so cannot really run the EMU for a prolonged period at higher speed to see if anything locks up.
But running the unit back and forth on a short track it never seems to jam up when operated on DC.
On DC, It runs very quiet, with no odd noises, it starts smoothly with no jerking and will run happily at low speed.
So as far as I can tell DC operation seems perfect.

Offline daversmth

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2017, 05:06:00 pm »
I will add that as I slowly ramp the dc voltage to the track, current increases to just under 40mA before the EMU moves. Below that it draws current but does not move.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2017, 05:06:31 pm »
Sounds fairly healthy. By elimination therefore, it's either something very wrong with the decoder, DCC controller, or configuration of one or other. Definitely reset the decoders before trying again using on DCC to know you're definitely starting from a nominally standard set of setting - usually this is via setting CV8 to a given value dependent on decoder manufacturer - easy to find what to set it to on Google.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Online Only Me

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2017, 05:52:46 pm »
Whats your dcc controller.... dont say a hornby select or ez!!?!

If its an ez the adaptor is most likely a 16v one which is ok for OO but bad for N....
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 05:53:57 pm by Only Me »



Online austinbob

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2017, 05:56:21 pm »
But the OP says all other locos work fine so maybe not a controller issue. Definitely an odd one this!!!
 :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline daversmth

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2017, 06:44:18 pm »
So, having ran the EMU up and down my 1m dc test track for a while trying unsuccessfully to get it to misbehave, I swapped back the dc blanking plug for my dcc decoder, put it back on the dcc track and it has been running perfectly for the last hour on dcc, no matter what I do with it.

The dmu was not moving at all on dcc, I tried the same process of running it on the dc track, and it too now works perfectly on dcc.

I had ran both previously on dc and swapped them back to dcc and dcc misbehaviour was intermittant.

Perhaps badly seated decoder contacts? Or just the mecanical act of man handling during swapping the decoders disturbed something ?  Still not 100% convinced the problems wont reoccur but so far so good.

I cannot see why running the units on DC would cure anything per say so I suspect some side effect my be the reason.

Online austinbob

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2017, 06:50:50 pm »
Dodgy contacts could be the problem. Maybe plugging the decoder in and out a few times might clean the plug an socket  contacts. However I'd hate for you to do this and find that what's running now stops working.
Decisions, Decisions.
 :hmmm:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline daversmth

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2017, 08:54:13 am »
Having run the units for a little while now on DCC the problem has once more returned as bad as ever. I am all out of ideas now.

Online austinbob

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2017, 09:00:01 am »
Having run the units for a little while now on DCC the problem has once more returned as bad as ever. I am all out of ideas now.
You've probably tried all this already but maybe double check:
Are the decoder contacts and sockets clean. Are they loose causing intermittent contact.
Check the soldered connections to the decoder sockets, any dry joints need careful resoldering.
Check for strands of wire from one decoder socket contact to another which may intermittently cause a short.
Check the wires for similar solder and wire strands at the other end also.
Finally if all is ok but fault is still there, Nip down the pub for a pint and wait for another Forum suggestion (of the helpful kind of course)
Sorry you're having all this trouble. These niggly faults can be very frustrating.
Good Luck
 :beers: :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2017, 09:21:03 am »
Hiya, take the motor out and clean out the gap between the commutator poles, i suspect they have become clogged which will cause all sorts of issues as the motor heats up including high current draw



Offline daversmth

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2017, 09:24:07 am »
Thanks all once more for all your help.
I have decided to pack them up and send them  off to Bachmann service department.
And a note to all - current charge is 22.50 with the first 7.50 of parts free.
It goes up to 30.00 in August.

Online Only Me

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2017, 10:44:37 am »
I do repairs for future reference 😉



Offline PLD

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2017, 01:29:04 pm »
Thanks all once more for all your help.
I have decided to pack them up and send them  off to Bachmann service department.
And a note to all - current charge is 22.50 with the first 7.50 of parts free.
It goes up to 30.00 in August.
Make sure you include a covering note stating they run fine on DC but not on DCC, otherwise what Bachmann will do is just test them on DC (as you have done) and find nothing wrong (as you did) and return to you as "nothing abnormal detected"...

From all you have told us about how the performance differs on DC V DCC and deteriorates with running on DCC, does point towards a poor/intermittent connection in the DCC circuitry whether that is a poorly fitting chip/socket or another loose connection somewhere on the PCB...

Offline daversmth

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Re: Help please for poor running
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2017, 03:50:36 pm »
I did include a description of the fault when I sent them off - thanks for the suggestion anyway.
To be frank, given the intermittent and convoluted nature of the fault I am not expecting them to come back any better than they went, but having spent hours on the problem could not spend any more time myself. Will have to sell on as spares or repair if there is no improvement.
When the frustration level gets this bad the hobby no longer becomes a pleasure.
Given that it is likely that issues will arise with other locos from time to time I was hoping to be able to learn how to do my own repairs, but when I have completely stripped everything down and can see nothing wrong there was no more I could do.
It does seem odd, though, that I have two units that exhibit the behaviour, but have not seen any reports of the same behaviour elsewhere.

In the meantime I will content myself with what runs - I now have 8 different trains running all at the same time on my 6' x 3' layout, under computer control from a JMRI script that I have written. Choo chooooo, as my wife says every time she passes by ....



 

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