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Author Topic: Pannier wheelspin  (Read 550 times)

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Offline silly moo

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Pannier wheelspin
« on: June 16, 2017, 04:58:10 pm »
I have two Farish panniers both made in China, they are the intermediate ones with fine coupling rods and wheels but diecast bodies. One has developed an occasional wheel spin.

Is this a sign of a split gear?

I've had a look at the gear under magnification and can't see a split but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

I will be sorry to retire this loco as in some respects it runs better than my newer Dapol version which is rather noisy.

Any help gratefully received.

Offline elmo

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2017, 06:14:59 pm »
When you say wheel spin do you mean that you can manually turn the wheels and/or the motor turns but the wheels do not? Does the axle cog look worn?
I have had this problem with a few panniers and a jinty all of the same era. The gear meshing is very poor. I managed a repair with an old brass cog from my spares box.

Elmo

Offline silly moo

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2017, 06:44:42 pm »
I can't manually turn the wheels, it will run down the track normally, then come to a halt with spinning wheels, sometimes a shove will get it going again.

I've never come across this before with any other loco.


Offline austinbob

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2017, 06:58:26 pm »
Is there something underneath catching on the track/sleepers?
 :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline elmo

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2017, 07:06:44 pm »
OK, different problem, but something I have experienced with another loco. What weight is the loco pulling? Does this happen light loco?
I have had an 0-6-0 where the centre wheels were lower down than the outer ones i.e. it would pivot on the centre axle. Is your pannier doing this? If you place it on the track can you rock it front to back?

Elmo

Offline PLD

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2017, 07:28:04 pm »
Is there something underneath catching on the track/sleepers?
 :beers:
Yes - if the wheels are turning but it isn't moving, it is definitely not a split gear. Either it is overloaded or something external to the loco is catching. Obvious thing to look for first is if any of the screws have worked loose and are hanging low.

Other potential causes are if a coupling rod has got turned upside down - the representations of the oil-boxes can catch, or a drooping coupling.

Offline silly moo

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2017, 08:47:42 pm »
Thanks for the suggestions, I will investigate tomorrow.

 :thankyousign:

Offline silly moo

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2017, 10:31:06 am »
I've done some testing, the wheels are all level and the quartering is fine. When the loco slips the wheels can be turned and they stay quartered.

There are no protrusions on the loco or track. I think it is the gear meshing problem that Elmo mentioned. Quite why this has happened I'm sure of, perhaps it's old age (like the owner)

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Offline Bealman

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2017, 10:37:38 am »
Come in Dr Al!  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline austinbob

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2017, 10:45:44 am »
I've done some testing, the wheels are all level and the quartering is fine. When the loco slips the wheels can be turned and they stay quartered.

There are no protrusions on the loco or track. I think it is the gear meshing problem that Elmo mentioned. Quite why this has happened I'm sure of, perhaps it's old age (like the owner)

Thanks to everyone for the help.
OK - I'm still not clear about what you mean by 'wheels spinning'. If you apply power to the motor do the wheels turn but slip on the track resulting in no movement of the loco?
OR. If you apply power to the motor, the motor runs but the wheels do not turn at all?

The first scenario almost certainly means something is catching on the track or the loco is on a gradient and can't climb it.
The second scenario means that there is some fault in the gear train - could be split gear/loose gear, could be worn gear could be a gear has moved on its axle.
 :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2017, 11:25:22 am »
Can 't possibly a gearing problem if the wheels are still turning but the loco is not moving. Gear meshing problem would mean the motor still running but the wheels not turning.  Split gear usually results in a clicking sound and/or the whole mechanism locking up - though if it's the main drive gear it can also mean the gear spins on the axle and the wheels don't turn (similar to gears worn and out of mesh).

Does it always happen at the same place?

Has to be something getting caught in the track or scenery, too much drag from the train it's pulling, track twisted out of level, or you've managed to get oil/grease on the wheels?    Is it pulling a train or running light loco?  Might be something in the train getting caught rather than the loco itself?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 11:30:16 am by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline silly moo

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 11:55:30 am »
I'm not explaining things very well am I : (  the track is flat and the loco has no train to pull. It goes along normally for a bit then slows considerably and the motor starts to labour. At this stage the wheels are turning, but very slowly, a tap will sometimes get it going again. (I can't see anything binding or catching on the loco itself). Then it will go a bit and slow down again.

Offline PLD

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2017, 12:08:02 pm »
I'm not explaining things very well am I : (  the track is flat and the loco has no train to pull. It goes along normally for a bit then slows considerably and the motor starts to labour. At this stage the wheels are turning, but very slowly, a tap will sometimes get it going again. (I can't see anything binding or catching on the loco itself). Then it will go a bit and slow down again.
That sounds like it could be something electrical rather than mechanical...

Possibly as it runs it is getting warm, something is moving/expanding and causing high (electrical) resistance.

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2017, 12:19:16 pm »
Ah yes, doesn't sound like wheel spin now!     

Could be the brushes and springs need cleaning/adjusting/replacing.  Clean the commutator while you're at it.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline NinOz

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Re: Pannier wheelspin
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2017, 01:51:58 pm »
Worthwhile checking current draw before and during the go-slow.
My first guess would be gears binding but you did say no signs of splits and you would have noticed any stray bits in the gears. ???

I recently had a split gear but I couldn't see any sign of a split using a magnifier and light.  Only found a small hairline break after removing the gear.  Replacement removed the movement hesitation.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 01:57:18 pm by NinOz »
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

 

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