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Author Topic: Viessmann Signal Wiring  (Read 496 times)

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Offline TheEdge

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Viessmann Signal Wiring
« on: January 28, 2017, 03:30:42 pm »
I'm hoping someone on here has used the Viessmann signals so knows how they are wired.

I've already got one entry signal working using a TrainTech UK 4 aspect controller correctly showing Hp0, Hp1 and Hp2. I'm hoping to keep using the TrainTech decoders as they are about £10 less than the Viessmann equivalents and I can easily get them to control a normal 2 aspect block signal or three aspect entry signal. I'm really struggling to see if it would be possible for me to control any of the distant signals with a TrainTech controller. Annoyingly the manual for the signals is generic and just tells you to plug the signals into you Viessmann controller so there isn't a specific wiring diagram for the different types.

So, long story short, does anyone have experience with the Viessmann distant signals and if so, how are they wired out of the box and how do you control them?

:thankyousign:

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 12:11:02 pm »
I don't have Viessmann signals but I've used Brawa and Busch.

For a Vorsignal I'd simply wire up the aspect vr0, vr1 or vr2 to indicate the same as the hp0, hp1 or hp2 that the following Hauptsignal is/would be showing.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline TheEdge

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 05:05:25 pm »
Thats one option but I'm still not sure how they are wired to get the vr2 aspect.

It was relatively easy to "botch" a UK signal controller to control a Hauptsignal by using a UK 4 aspect decoder as the yellow will only ever come on with the green, so green into the UK yellow output, yellow into the double yellow, simple. But that easy rule won't work with a vr2 aspect as those two lamps also need to come on with the other aspects. Or can anyone suggest some controllers designed to control the Vorsignals that are not the Viessmann ones?

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 05:34:06 pm »
You might have to do a quick trial-and-error test to ascertain which wire drives which LED(s), but once you know that then just simply wire into the same controller as the hp signal. 

How many wires/colours coming out of the 4410?  Must admit I'm struggling to find that info on the 'net.

I remember when I was fitting my Brawa and Busch signals some 20 years ago there where quite a few wires to sort out on the combined hp/vr/sh signals.    I sat down at the table with a power source and sorted out the wires by trial and error, marking them with permanent marker dots to remind me once they were threaded through the baseboard.

[edit]
Looks like the 4410 has 2 green wires, 2 yellow wires and a black common wire?  I assume then that each LED is fed separately.  For vr2 you just need to sort out the top green and bottom yellow.
[/edit]
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 05:42:28 pm by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline TheEdge

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 06:02:30 pm »
I don't know how many wires there are, Viessmann seem to keep it very quiet till you get it home, that's why I was hoping someone else might have some experience. And their manual is equally unhelpful, just tells you to plug the signal into your new Viessmann control unit.  :laugh: The only good thing is each wire has a little bit of coloured heatshrink related to the LED.

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 06:04:06 pm »
So, I'm guessing you're using the TrainTech SC2 module?     

I'm not familiar with signal control under DCC, is it a case of addressing a signal head and sending a function for red/yellow/double-yellow/green as required (ie. 4 different functions)?  Given that you only need 3 aspects for the Hp, are you using single-yellow or double-yellow aspect to represent vr2?

Seems to me for the Hp signal I'd ignore the double-yellow aspect function, use single-yellow to represent hp2 and wire:

red led > red output
green led > green output  & single yellow output (via a diode?)
yellow led > single-yellow output

Hence your Vr signal would be:
top yellow led > red output
top green led > green output & single yellow output (via a diode?)
bottom yellow led > red output (via a diode?) & single yellow output
bottom green led > green output

Something like that I think

[edit]
hmm. Thinking about it a bit more, you might need to use diodes where you link an led to more than one output, so you don't also power unwanted leds.  I need to go away and sketch this up to get it clear in my mind, but I reckon it's possible....
[/edit]

« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 06:17:34 pm by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline TheEdge

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 06:14:53 pm »
I've just seen that edit, it concerns me. If it is wired that simply I don't think there is a way they could be controlled without using a controller specifically designed for German signalling logic. My trick of using a double yellow output would bring on three lamps at all times.  :veryangry:

A reply to ntpntpntp,

Hp signals are easy. A block signal can be controlled by any 2 aspect controller. An entry signal can be controlled by a UK 4 aspect controller, they way I've done it (and will continue to do so as it works);

Red LED - red output
Yellow LED - double yellow output
Green LED - single yellow output

Which means when the controller thinks it is displaying a yellow light only the green LED is lit, when it thinks its showing a double yellow both the green and yellow are lit so I get Hp2 shown. That method will only work because the yellow is never shown alone, only ever with the green as well.

The Vr signals are a problem because there isn't that situation of a light only ever being blah blah blah. I've just re-read your idea. I'm going to stick with the my Hp method but I do see exactly how your Vr wiring works. Seems like an idea worth a shot. Thanks :)

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2017, 06:26:44 pm »
Hope you can figure it out.  You've obviously figured out Hp control.  As I say I've never played with signalling under DCC, mine are all on toggle switches on my control panel.

Good luck, please post back if/when you get it sorted?
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2017, 06:33:46 pm »
By the way, are you aware of the LDT signal decoder (DB version)?    might be of interest.

https://www.ldt-infocenter.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:ls-dec-db

No idea how it compares cost-wise with what you're doing now, but it is designed for DB signalling.    Might also be available as a kit - I believe LDT do sell kits of many of their modules.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline TheEdge

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2017, 10:36:41 pm »
That controller is exactly what I was looking for. My local shop sells SC2s at £17 a go so that does represent good value.

Might be a much better solution.

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 12:03:58 am »
Looks like you can get the LDT module or kit through Conrad UK, and save a tenner by getting the kit.

http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/Search.html?search=ldt+ls-dec-db&searchType=mainSearchBar

I like Conrad - like Maplin on steroids!  Always make a point of visiting the Conrad booth at the Stuttgart Modell Sued show when I'm there.  I remember back in 2006 when the Stuttgart show was at the old Messe, a group of us went on a trek to the nearest Conrad shop. turned out it was about 40 minutes walk each way, but at least it was a nice day!

Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline TheEdge

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Re: Viessmann Signal Wiring
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 10:25:18 pm »
Hope you can figure it out.  You've obviously figured out Hp control.  As I say I've never played with signalling under DCC, mine are all on toggle switches on my control panel.

Good luck, please post back if/when you get it sorted?

Its been a while but you did ask for me to return with results. Not good...  :veryangry:

I thought I had it solved but seemingly not, the controller really doesn't seem to like it. I can happily get it to display Hp1 and Hp2 but it has issues with Hp0. I'm not entirely sure why, I'm going to do a little more digging before I call it dead. It is all rather academic though as I plan to use the LDT module from now on.


 

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