!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: WR coaches  (Read 887 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chris in Prague

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24400
  • Posts: 8962
  • Country: cz
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2016, 09:58:41 pm »
In the early 1960s (I think 1962?), Stanley Raymond was appointed WR General Manager with instructions to break up the WR's Chocolate and Cream named express rakes and enforce the use of regular BR maroon stock. Thereafter mixed livery rakes were common. As John has written, around 1962 you could see BR Crimson & Cream, BR WR Chocolate & Cream, and BR Lined Maroon coaches all in the same mainline train. Hawksworth design coaches were still around in BR Lined Maroon, especially on the Cambrian, judging by photos. Collett design coaches, in BR Lined Maroon, were getting quite rare. The WR also used BR Lined Maroon Stanier and Gresley design coaches as "strengtheners", (I have photos.). So, almost anything goes!

Hawksworth and Colletts in use on WR:

A mixture of Hawksworth and various Collett types within the same train was common. The different designs were freely mixed up and regarded as interchangeable. A four-car train could be BSK/SK/CK/BSK of whichever coach you fancy. BCK
+SK+BSK is another possibility. Or even a Class 22 with a single Collett BCK.

WR (ex-GWR) Carriage Formations

BCK, BSK
BSK, CK, BSK
BSK, SK, BCK
BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK
BSK, SK, CK, BSK
BSK, SK, CK, BCK

Plus various longer formations such as:

BCK, 6 SK, BCK
BCK, 4 SK, BCK, BG
BCK, 2 SK, 2 CK, 2 SK, BSK
BSK, 3 SK, 2 CK, 3 SK, BSK

These were all listed as GWR stock but could be any combination of Collett and Hawksworth stock.

Offline Bob G

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16057
  • Posts: 587
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2017, 06:48:09 pm »
I really love the variation in coaching stock that is available now in N. Obviously as a Southern modeller predominantly, I have almost sufficient Bullieds and Maunsells, but as far as visiting WR trains go, I've only got a rake of Chocolate and Cream Mk 1s (diverted south / rule 1) and a rake of Maroon Colletts.

I have started wondering about the longevity of my rake of Dapol Collett coaches in Maroon livery, so a few questions to the cognoscenti out there.

1. How long did the Collett coaches made by Dapol last in revenue earning service? Did they even make it into maroon?

2. What would they have been seen behind in the late 1950s-1960s. Manors or Halls? 51xx/61xx big prairies?

I'm trying to figure what could be justified on a run down to Southampton (say) behind a Reading based Manor or Hall, for example, in the late 50s-60s. Did the big prairies make it any further south than Basingstoke? e.g. down the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton line?

This is your chance to persuade me to buy a copper chimneyed kettle, or flog my Collett coaches and get more Maunsells!

Thanks in advance
Bob


Offline Chris in Prague

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24400
  • Posts: 8962
  • Country: cz
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2017, 07:00:35 pm »
The Collett design coaches certainly lasted long enough to carry BR Lined Maroon livery, Bob. I think they lasted in passenger service to around 1964. The later the year the more likely they would be used in secondary services rather than mainline ones. They tended to be mixed with Hawksworth design coaches in the same livery.
BR WR Chocolate and Cream stock might appear on a Summer Saturday service when weekday passenger rakes were used.

I don't think the Large Prairies ever made it to Southampton. I'm not an expert on the DNS but I think a 43XX would be the most likely motive power.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 07:15:41 am by Chris in Prague, Reason: Corrected. »

Offline newportnobby

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+52)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 24978
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2017, 08:29:03 pm »
I'm certainly hoping the Colletts lasted into the early 60s as I run mine behind my Ixion Manor and my Hymeks on cross country services (fingers crossed smiley) @Karhedron

Offline Chris Morris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 579
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Ridgacre Branch & Little Aller Junction
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2017, 08:31:10 pm »
Class 22s on branch passenger workings from "hydraulics in the West"  by David Cable
Exe Valley branch 28/9/63
Kings ridge branch 23/6/62
Bodmin branch April 63 & April 62
Newquay branch 4/10/61
Chacewater branch  - date unknown and a rare sight
Falmouth branch June 63
Helton branch - Aug 62
Torrington - March 65
Padstow - July 66
Some of these have what looks like old non corridor stock (maybe a B set) and some with mk1s. It does show that the West Country branches did see class 22s on branch passenger workings. It looks like this was for a fairly short period in the early 60s. This doesn't of course show whether dmus were also in use on these branches at the same time. There were probably plenty of class 22s available for use in the Weat Country at this time. It could be that replacing a 45xx with a class 22 was easier in the short term than getting hold of and providing servicing facilities for dmus. Also drivers would have been trained on the hydraulics by then but maybe not trained on dmus.

Offline Bob G

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16057
  • Posts: 587
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2017, 09:18:57 pm »

I don't think the Large Prairies ever made it to Southampton. I'm not an expert on the DNS but I think a 43XX would be the most likely motive power.

I'm sure I'm not the only person now longing for a 43xx. Dapol has a lot of the bits for it .

Bob

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2024
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2017, 10:47:49 pm »
I don't think the Large Prairies ever made it to Southampton. I'm not an expert on the DNS but I think a 43XX would be the most likely motive power.

I haven't seen any photos of Large Prairies at Southampton. Moguls and 2251s were the main motive power on the DN&S but trains usually swapped to southern motive power at Winchester Chesil station. Larger locos (mainly Halls and Granges) were common working down on inter-regional trains to Bournemouth from places like Wolverhampton but they worked via Basingstoke.

I'm sure I'm not the only person now longing for a 43xx. Dapol has a lot of the bits for it .

Dave Jones has one on the drawing board so it is probably only a matter of time.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 10:49:00 pm by Karhedron »
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2024
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2017, 10:53:17 pm »
I'm certainly hoping the Colletts lasted into the early 60s as I run mine behind my Ixion Manor and my Hymeks on cross country services (fingers crossed smiley) @Karhedron


Yes, Collets certainly survived in service at least until 1962 and possible later (I will have to see if I can find dates).
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Bob G

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16057
  • Posts: 587
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2017, 12:35:32 am »
Oh, do I HAVE to buy a Grange? I have a Hall and a Manor, based on photos in the Railways around Southampton book.
I always thought the Grange was  Dapol quick fix, but no one wanted them :)

I know I'm talking to GW folk now, but its like panniers, they all look the same (duck for cover).

I can justify the 51/61xx as they got to Basingstoke, and a bit of rule 1 follows... and I have a 45xx and a 4575 cos I love them.

Bob

Offline Chris in Prague

  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24400
  • Posts: 8962
  • Country: cz
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2017, 07:47:08 am »
I have a Dapol "Grange", Bob, and they are very nice models. However, I know that the nearest they ever got to North Cornwall was Bodmin Road! However, they are classic Cornish locos.

It is possible to make both a 43xx and a 63xx with a kit and a converted GF Large Prairie chassis. I'm waiting for my 43xx to be turned out in BR Lined Green livery. I already have the donor loco. for a 63xx after that. I think it will be some time before a RTR Mogul appears.

The Peco 2251s can be bought, at a price. I have one but I have read that Union Mills will be producing one which should not be as expensive.

So that is two alternatives to a "Grange" for you!

I do not know when the last Collett design coaches were withdrawn from passenger service but would like know. I think 1964 is about right as with line closures, withdrawal of stopping services and dieselisation, they would be no longer required. The Hawksworth design ones lasted longer, a very few even appearing in BR Blue and Grey! I simply cannot understand why Dapol has not introduced them in BR Lined Maroon as they would be very popular for the WR steam to diesel transition period.

In the West Country, the WR replaced 45xx and 4575 class locos. with NB Type 2s in the early 1960s, running with the customary B Sets on branchlines and mixed Collett and Hawksworth design coaches on secondary lines and stopping services. Whilst the single car diesel units appeared soon after and replaced the autotrains, DMU sets were slower to arrive to replace the Type 2s and their coaches. BR Standard coaches, being very new, were very largely kept for mainline services in the early 1960s. However, in North Cornwall, an incredible variety of coaches were used in the late steam and early diesel eras. The Wadebridge scholars' trains being an excellent example.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 07:49:55 am by Chris in Prague, Reason: Corrected. »

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2024
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2017, 08:03:14 am »
Here we are, a GWR Mogul at Southampton Terminus in 1949.

Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Wrinkly1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: WR coaches
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2017, 08:43:50 am »
Several small GWR classes could be seen at Southampton having travelled from Cheltenham on the MSWJR. They tended to share the work with SR U Class locos. 43xx/93xx were the most common in later years. At one time Cheltenham had two Dukedog locos on their shed roster for use on the line. Does anyone know if photos of their use to the south coast exist?

 

Please Support Us!
July Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Jul 31
Total Receipts: £60.00
Above Goal: £5.00
Site Currency: GBP
109% 
July Donations


Advertise Here