!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU  (Read 4324 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bees

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 11:35:12 am »
But i think the bodysides would be better as vinyls, because brass sides, which are painted and also have glue, just adds too much width, in my opinion.

Hi

I got Allen to do my sides on 5 thou brass to cut down on the width and this seems to look ok for the 2HAP I have built based on Farish coaches.

Cheers

Paul

Hi Paul,

What did you use to apply the brass to the side of the body??

Steven
I like to start each day the same, sit up and take a deep breath!
First objective for the day achieved, woohoo!!!

Offline PostModN66

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 17980
  • Posts: 1668
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 11:49:27 am »
Hi Paul,

What did you use to apply the brass to the side of the body??

Steven

And while we're on the topic, how do you paint them - i.e. before you stick them on or after,  and if after, do you have to painstakingly mask off all the windows?

Cheers  Jon  :)
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

My Postmodern Image Layouts

Lofthole http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14792.msg147178#msg147178

Deansmoor http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14741.msg146381#msg146381

Offline red_death

  • Revolution Trains
  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2166
  • Country: gb
  • NGS Product Development Officer
    • DEMU - the society for Diesel & Electric modellers of all scales
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 12:03:14 pm »
I've used things like Evostik for gluing overlays onto coach sides. I would definitely paint before attaching.

Cheers, Mike



Online PaulCheffus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 4575
  • 2mm Association Number: 4172
  • Posts: 977
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 01:20:55 pm »
Hi Paul,

What did you use to apply the brass to the side of the body??

Steven

And while we're on the topic, how do you paint them - i.e. before you stick them on or after,  and if after, do you have to painstakingly mask off all the windows?

Cheers  Jon  :)

Hi

To answer both questions in one post.

I use Araldite Rapid to fix the sides and I remove the glazing from behind the windows which are then glazed with strips after painting. I'm a fan of building as much as I possibly can before applying paint as it allows joins to be disguised better.

Cheers

Paul

Offline bees

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 10:03:50 pm »
I have always scratched the brass first using a fibre glass pen, undercoated then painted. My downfall i think though, has been attaching the brass onto bodysides using a strong double sided tape :doh:

The 323 cabfronts have been attached using a pritt stick, it seems to've worked very well. I'm just waiting for the Liquid Green Stuff to dry now, before i attack said 323 with a needle file.

Steven

 :NGaugersRule:
I like to start each day the same, sit up and take a deep breath!
First objective for the day achieved, woohoo!!!

Offline Izzy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2014, 10:46:26 am »

I must confess I don't quite understand the overlaying of the brass sides onto the clear Farish coaches. A good way with vinyl printed sides, but with brass or N/s ones they seem strong enough to use on their own and makes painting/glazing easier. I'm currently building a AM9/309 EMU using Worsley Works standard thickness 10thou sides and a Cravens 105 DMU using BHE 5 thou ones (with pin wire top and bottom for extra strength), and these seem quite okay without the need to back onto something else.

With regard to sizes, it seems quite a bit of stuff has actually been made over time to 2mm/ft rather than N. The 105 DMU sides are one such, requiring the Farish 101 donor DMU chassis to be shortened to suit.

Izzy

Online PaulCheffus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 4575
  • 2mm Association Number: 4172
  • Posts: 977
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2014, 07:18:40 pm »

I must confess I don't quite understand the overlaying of the brass sides onto the clear Farish coaches. A good way with vinyl printed sides, but with brass or N/s ones they seem strong enough to use on their own and makes painting/glazing easier. I'm currently building a AM9/309 EMU using Worsley Works standard thickness 10thou sides and a Cravens 105 DMU using BHE 5 thou ones (with pin wire top and bottom for extra strength), and these seem quite okay without the need to back onto something else.

With regard to sizes, it seems quite a bit of stuff has actually been made over time to 2mm/ft rather than N. The 105 DMU sides are one such, requiring the Farish 101 donor DMU chassis to be shortened to suit.

Izzy

Hi

10 thou will be fine on its own but 5 thou I would suggest is too thin. I prefer overlaying onto Farish coaches as the parts I have bought have all been sides only plus using the coach you get the roof, underframe and ends for free.

Cheers

Paul

Offline PostModN66

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 17980
  • Posts: 1668
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2015, 02:33:03 pm »
This project is grinding fearful slow, but I have taken the next small step which is to spray the ends yellow:



You can see that I didn't do a perfect job of masking inside the windows!

My current thinking is that I will finish the ends of the bodies completely before applying the transfers, as they seem to be the most fragile parts.  This means masking and spraying the ends, installing the cab windows and picking out the cables etc. on the cab fronts.  Not sure how to go on the windows - bits of transparent plastic or "Glue'n'glaze"?  Also wondering about buffers.

The main reason that this little project is so slow is really that I don't enjoy this aspect of modelling as much as others.  It is so fiddly, and you have to get everything right first time, as unlike scenery it is pretty difficult to scrape it off and do again!

Cheers  Jon  :)
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

My Postmodern Image Layouts

Lofthole http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14792.msg147178#msg147178

Deansmoor http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14741.msg146381#msg146381

Offline robert shrives

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 8743
  • 2mm Association Number: 4424
  • Posts: 838
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2015, 04:40:19 pm »
Hi Yellow coverage looks really good.  I look forward to seeing this come along..  Prepainted metal sides with d/sided tape has been my way to do this but varnish might be another way to get sides to adhere if sides roughened on back and lower bodyside.

more strength to your elbow !
Robert     

Offline acko22

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • PROJECT RAILWAY HONOUR - HONOURING THE PAST, HELPING TODAY
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2015, 04:59:44 pm »
Jon,

Your 304 is looking good! One question since I am looking at modelling both the 323 and 304 for my layout what are you doing for the underside detailing? what motor you using for the 304?

I have 3 MK1s for my 304 but was thinking of getting a MK1 DMU so the motor is in built and then fiddle with the underside to make it look the part!

Offline PostModN66

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 17980
  • Posts: 1668
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2015, 06:14:28 pm »
Jon,

Your 304 is looking good! One question since I am looking at modelling both the 323 and 304 for my layout what are you doing for the underside detailing? what motor you using for the 304?

I have 3 MK1s for my 304 but was thinking of getting a MK1 DMU so the motor is in built and then fiddle with the underside to make it look the part!

Hi Acko,

Currently I am just using the Farish MK1 underframes, hacked about with the various boxes moved and added to with plasticard to resemble the originals.  I only have grainy pictures from the internet to work from anyway.

The motor is from a 158, shortened using the method described by Grahame Hedges. This is shown in reply 4 above. This has worked well, although the couplers stick out a long way and I need to find a way of reducing coupling distance. Your idea sounds good...interested how it pans out...

The kit I have uses decals for the sides; this is supposed to be a fiddly job, so if it doesn't work out I may need to resort to Electra vinyls which Adam has said could be made available.

Cheers  Jon  :)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 06:31:28 pm by PostModN66, Reason: Additions »
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

My Postmodern Image Layouts

Lofthole http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14792.msg147178#msg147178

Deansmoor http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14741.msg146381#msg146381

Offline acko22

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • PROJECT RAILWAY HONOUR - HONOURING THE PAST, HELPING TODAY
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2015, 06:24:32 pm »
Thanks Jon,

If you are after pics, I will dig them out from the attic I grew up next to the Altrincham line so there are plenty in there.

Regards
Acko

Offline PostModN66

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 17980
  • Posts: 1668
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2015, 06:34:31 pm »
Hi Acko,

if you have a picture of the pan well taken from above that would be amazing.  Haven't seen a single one!

Cheers  Jon  :)
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

My Postmodern Image Layouts

Lofthole http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14792.msg147178#msg147178

Deansmoor http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14741.msg146381#msg146381

Offline acko22

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • PROJECT RAILWAY HONOUR - HONOURING THE PAST, HELPING TODAY
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2015, 06:36:21 pm »
OK will do, it will be a week or 2 as not at home at the minute but will get the albums out and go from there!

Offline newportnobby

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+52)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 24997
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Help with building a 323 and a 304 EMU
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2015, 08:23:46 pm »
OHLE not really my thing, Jon, but I am interested to see how this comes out.

 

Please Support Us!
July Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Jul 31
Total Receipts: £60.00
Above Goal: £5.00
Site Currency: GBP
109% 
July Donations


Advertise Here
anything