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Author Topic: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos  (Read 1484 times)

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Offline RikkiGTR

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"Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« on: March 06, 2013, 10:00:58 am »
I've been wiring up my power bus this past few days and was beginning to think I was doing something wrong...
My class 56 jitters about the track like a frightened rabbit, stalls here and there (I have to give it a little push occasionally). It never really gets up to speed.

Anyway, I tried another loco and to my surprise it flies around the track without issue. No jittering, not stalling; it's running perfectly. So there must be something wrong with the class 56 but as I'm totally new to all this I don't know where to start.

Power is DCC, I'm using a Gaugemaster DCC02 Prodigy Advance controller.
The loco is brand new, digitally chipped (I'm just using the default assigned number 3 for now - because I don't yet know how to assign my own numbers).
It came DCC installed, so I've literally took it out of the box and put it on the track.

What could be the problem?
"I hate vulgar realisms in literature. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one..."

- Oscar Wilde

swisstony

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 11:42:17 am »
sounds like you need to turn off BEMF (Back EMF) on the loco decoder.  I've had this quite a few times, I see it more aparrent using older Farish stock with the older motors which can make locos do all sorts of strange tricks... Certainly with CT Electronik decoders I have on some locos to change the motor rates one cv at a time to get smooth running, yet use the same decoder setting on a newer loco and they work fine.!!!

Trial and error my man, trial and error!

If you can plug the prodigy advance into your PC, may I suggest you download the JMRI spplication and install it, its a gui driven app which allowds easy CV modification and control
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 11:43:58 am by swisstony »

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 01:18:12 pm »
Back EMF is certainly one possibility but it sounds more like it's got a pickup problem and is only picking up power from one bogie properly. Easy enough to test.

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Jack

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 07:14:46 pm »
Before changing anything with the decoder I'd be inclined to check that the pickups on the loco are set up correctly.

Is the 56 new? What was the loco that did as expected, ie fly around?
Today's Experts were yesterday's Beginners :)

Offline Sprintex

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 09:10:11 pm »
If you can plug the prodigy advance into your PC,

Not sure that's possible with the Prodigy? Why would you need to?


Paul

Offline Pete Mc

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 09:54:59 pm »
On Dapol locos,the pickups are a pin point type affair on the axles so if the pickups are at fault,it'll be on the actual chassis itself.

Now I haven't had any problems with mine but what I have noticed is there is a fair amount of grease applied in the factory so this may be interfering with current collection.Other than that,try removing the decoder and refitting it.It could be as simple as a loose decoder pin,which as all us dccists know,does happen from time to time.

If it still does the same thing you could also try to fit a blanking plug and try it on dc only.This would most definately mean the loco itself is at fault.

Pete
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Its my train set and I'll run worra want!

Pete sadly passed away on the 27th November 2013 - http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=17988.msg179976#msg179976

swisstony

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 09:57:50 pm »
If you can plug the prodigy advance into your PC,

Not sure that's possible with the Prodigy? Why would you need to?


Paul

Jmri  i think can control the prodigy via usb giving a better interface to work with.

Offline RikkiGTR

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 08:01:13 am »
The loco that did as expected is a (I think...) Graham Farish Class 33*, same make, same decoder, same brand new condition.
I'm now using the one that works to test sections of track as I wire them up because the Class 56 is getting me nowhere, but I'll try out the suggestions you guys are giving me.

*I'll clarify that when I go back up to the loft today. I need to learn my classes  :D

EDIT: the loco that runs perfectly all over the track is a Graham Farish DCC-fitted Class 27...
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 03:42:27 pm by RikkiGTR »
"I hate vulgar realisms in literature. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one..."

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Offline RikkiGTR

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2013, 04:37:16 pm »
I also have a class 150 DMU (came DCC fitted) that is doing the exact same thing, very temperamental all over the track.
Now if the class 27 runs perfectly on all sections of the track, it is definitely a problem with the locos right?
"I hate vulgar realisms in literature. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one..."

- Oscar Wilde

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 05:06:36 pm »
Not always. Really good clean track and a loco with pickup problems often works well, and vice versa. Also it's quite possible to find one spot gives only some locos a problem and when you investigate it may be twisted or bent in a way that happens to cause problems only for some models (eg steam locos are much more sensitive to humps in the track)

If it's occurring all over the track then yes my first suspect would be the loco pickups. The fact it is a 150 doubly so. Put the lights on and see if they flicker horribly at the driving end when it runs. I've seen several 150s where the leading (non motor) bogie was not picking up properly.

"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline RikkiGTR

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 07:37:41 pm »
Yeah the lights do indeed flicker.
From what I remember, there was some nice white lights at one end of the 150 when I first used it earlier (and only the first time), but now only the smaller red lights are on.

The class 27 runs perfectly. There is maybe the odd stall at the lowest speed, but the track is new and not 100% wired up yet so its understandable.
The class 56 runs ok. Stalls on slower speeds and never really goes "fast", like it is treading water (if that makes sense).
The class 150 is awful. Had to push it around half the track to get it going at all (the same stretch of track that the 27 whizzes around no problem).

Supposing it is the pick ups - are these fixable? Where are they and what do I do with them?
Please bare in mind I'm totally new to this so you'll have to dumb it down substantially for me  :dunce:
"I hate vulgar realisms in literature. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one..."

- Oscar Wilde

Offline Dr Al

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2013, 10:01:09 pm »
The Dapol 56 is low geared. So don't expect a high top speed.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline RikkiGTR

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 12:25:27 am »
You're right it IS a Dapol, even though I wrongly posted earlier that it is Graham Farish. Thanks for that.
For what it's worth - I have no intention of running my locos at high speeds (I find it very unrealistic), it just seemed so much slower than the Class 27 so I assumed it was an issue. I'm glad I can rule that out.
"I hate vulgar realisms in literature. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one..."

- Oscar Wilde

Offline martink

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 12:56:35 am »
A really basic question here - are the wheels clean?  Some locos are much more vulnerable to dirty wheels than others.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: "Kangaroo Diesel" in one of my locos
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2013, 12:37:20 pm »
You're right it IS a Dapol, even though I wrongly posted earlier that it is Graham Farish. Thanks for that.
For what it's worth - I have no intention of running my locos at high speeds (I find it very unrealistic), it just seemed so much slower than the Class 27 so I assumed it was an issue. I'm glad I can rule that out.

Also, Farish never did a class 27, so are you sure that's not a Dapol model also....?

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

 

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