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Your Layout and Models => Layout Construction => Topic started by: Innovationgame on August 19, 2016, 09:03:03 pm

Title: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 19, 2016, 09:03:03 pm
The concept of Morton Hinmarch emerged several decades ago when I lived in Moreton-in-Mash.  Many years before that I had read a Railway Modeller article about a model called ďThe Cheshire LineĒ, which was cunningly located in a position where it was possible to see trains from three of the four regions of British Railways.  By locating Morton Hinmarch somewhere around the Warwickshire-Oxfordshire-Northamptonshire boundary it would be possible to see trains mainly from the Western Region, but also some from the LM region and a few Eastern Region trains from the old Great Central Line, which connected to several points of the network in that area.  The name indicates that the station layout is based (very loosely) on the old Moreton-in-Marsh station of the late 1950s.  The locomotives and rolling stock are typical of that period.  I first started to build the n-gauge model in my loft, in those days using soft board as a base board.  The model progressed very well, but lifeís complications eventually thwarted its completion.

For many years afterwards the project remained a pipe dream but, when a move to a new house was planned about three years ago, the opportunity of using an existing building as a train shed arose.  Sadly, that move fell through, but our current property had space at the bottom of the garden for a possible train shed. That part of the garden had been terribly neglected over the years and had become a veritable jungle.  But planning the layout had already begun and I began to identify resources and suppliers.  This year, I finally cleared the space for the new train shed although, reluctantly, I had to remove one of my newly created raised vegetable beds to ensure a sufficient area was available.  This is a view of the site once cleared, with the raised bed emptied of soil.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-190816203824.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43039)
Hereís another view with the raised bed dismantled.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-190816205333.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43039)
Slabs have now been laid in preparation for the train shed, which has been ordered and should be delivered in the next few weeks.  Here is a view of the slab base.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-190816205639.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43039)
And here with the surrounding rubbish removed
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-190816205904.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43039)
The internal dimensions of the building will be 5m X 3m and the total running length of the main lines in each direction, including the hidden loops, will be almost 15 metres, a scale distance of about a mile and a half, with about two thirds of that in full view.  This is a plan of the proposed layout.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-190816210048.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43039)
There will be eight down storage loops on the main line and eight at the up.  The branch has a run-around at each remote destination.  There will be two non-stop express passenger trains for each timetable cycle and four intermediate passenger trains, stopping at the station.  There will also be two through freight trains, an XP fish/meat train and a slow, heavy goods.  In addition there will be a milk train calling at the milk depot and a local goods calling at the goods depot.  I intend to run two local trains on the main line, each with suburban coaches.  The branch train will comprise two suburban coaches plus a goods wagon.

Once the train shed is completed, I will be able to start installing the baseboards and then we will be well on the way to a real layout.  More pictures to follow once the train shed has been installed.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on August 19, 2016, 09:13:27 pm
A very envious space to have and a fine looking plan.
If I may make a couple of comments...........

In my mind there is far too much straight track especially down each side which would look much better with some sweeping 'S' curves (and maybe some superelevation)

The headshunts for the branch line fiddle yard loops look too small on the plan, given a loco + 2 coaches + goods van.

And now a couple of questions please.....

Have you decided on what track system you intend to use?
DC or DCC?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Ditape on August 19, 2016, 09:49:29 pm
 :jealous:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: M0NTIGNAC on August 20, 2016, 07:03:32 am
 :hellosign:
A great layout project. Can't wait for the next pics !
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 20, 2016, 08:23:20 am
A very envious space to have and a fine looking plan.
If I may make a couple of comments...........

In my mind there is far too much straight track especially down each side which would look much better with some sweeping 'S' curves (and maybe some superelevation)

The headshunts for the branch line fiddle yard loops look too small on the plan, given a loco + 2 coaches + goods van.

And now a couple of questions please.....

Have you decided on what track system you intend to use?
DC or DCC?
Thanks for the comments.  I forgot to explain in my original posting that the green squares are each 1 ft square and the blue dashed lines are the screening scenery for the loops.  I intend to use MRS baseboards with 9mm ply tops and self-adhesive cork underlay.

The straights were intended to allow a 12 coach express to be seen at speed in a straight line, but I may think about some extra curves. 

The headshunts will only need to take a panier tank as the train will remain in the passing loops. 

I intend to use a Gaugemaster DCC as this will allow me to set up routes for ease of operation.  It will also allow the controller to take charge of acceleration and deceleration.  I plan to use Digikeijs DR4018 decoders for the points.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: MinZaPint on August 20, 2016, 11:39:04 am
Looking forward to seeing this develop, be sure to keep us all posted and don't forget the pics  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on August 20, 2016, 11:55:42 am
Welcome to the NGF!  :thumbsup:

Sorry to ask the question again, but what track will you be using, please?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 20, 2016, 12:30:28 pm
Welcome to the NGF!  :thumbsup:

Sorry to ask the question again, but what track will you be using, please?
I intend to use Peco Code 80.  I have considered Code 55 but I'm not sure whether it will give smooth running to a variety of stock.  However, that decision is not urgent until the shed is installed and the baseboards built.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on August 20, 2016, 01:18:11 pm
If it's any help to you I use code 55 throughout and run Minitrix, Peco, Dapol, Ixion, Poole Farish and Chinese Bachmann Farish with no issues whatsoever. Code 55 is, I found, easier to use than code 80 and looks better. As the small points in code 55 are 12" radius I get no issues with derailment at all either.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on August 20, 2016, 05:33:19 pm
Welcome aboard :)  the forum abounds with inspirational layouts, great modelling and forthright opinions! 

I too had a long wait to get started, having taken a couple of years to get my railway room fit to occupy, you can see the progress on my thread in this sub forum... I started building the baseboards recently and it is really satisfying to finally start

Look forward to seeing your layout develop - shame about the raised beds, I have built some very similar (and filled them)... I also had to move a couple this year and transfer the soil.... burned a few calories that day!

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 20, 2016, 08:42:11 pm
If it's any help to you I use code 55 throughout and run Minitrix, Peco, Dapol, Ixion, Poole Farish and Chinese Bachmann Farish with no issues whatsoever. Code 55 is, I found, easier to use than code 80 and looks better. As the small points in code 55 are 12" radius I get no issues with derailment at all either.

Seconded!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 20, 2016, 08:45:39 pm
Looking forward to seeing this develop. Moreton-in-Marsh was an interesting station before it was drastically simplified (as was Evesham). Evesham even had what became a Class 03 sub-shedded from Worcester to shunt the goods yard, even for a while with an ex-GWR shunter's truck!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 21, 2016, 08:12:02 am
Looking forward to seeing this develop. Moreton-in-Marsh was an interesting station before it was drastically simplified. It had what became a Class 03 sub-shedded from Worcester to shunt the goods yard, even for a while with an ex-GWR shunter's truck!

Thanks for the info on Moreton-in-Marsh.  I didnít move there until 1971, by which time the goods yard and Shipston branch had gone (the goods yard became the depot for Spook Erections who were responsible for the return of street markets in the surrounding towns).  The milk Depot was still there and the remains of the Brunel goods shed were still visible.

I remember that the track and crossing gates of the Shipston branch were still visible in 1960, where it meandered back and forth across the Fosse Way to avoid the hills.  You will notice that I have moved the branch approach around the milk depot and also moved the Chipping Norton branch from Kingham Junction to be the continuation of the branch from Moreton.  I have tried to keep a representation of the Oxford Street Bridge but the access to the milk depot has been completely changed.

I have left room for the tail shunt to the goods depot to be diverted to a siding adjacent to the down platform, which was still in place in 1971.  It could also be extended to a small goods yard by including some extra points.

You can see an aerial picture of the station taken in 1929 here. (http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw026880) 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 21, 2016, 12:36:18 pm
If send me a PM with an email address, if I can find it, I'll scan and send you a picture of the Class 03 with shunter's truck in the station.

I passed through Evesham as well as Moreton-in-Marsh station quite often in the early 1970s and remember the BR Fruit Vans standing in a siding by the mainline, at Evesham. The siding lasted after the vans were no longer loaded there. I don't know whether it has survived?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 22, 2016, 11:19:59 am
I don't have any more pics yet, but I have attached a PDF of the shed design.  I hope it works.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on August 22, 2016, 11:26:09 am
It works, Laurence :thumbsup:
Looks like you'll get plenty of natural light and the size is to be envied.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on August 22, 2016, 12:36:11 pm
Not getting it but I'm on me tablet thingy at moment. Will have a look on my real computer tomorrow!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 22, 2016, 01:15:12 pm
Not getting it but I'm on me tablet thingy at moment. Will have a look on my real computer tomorrow!   :thumbsup:
I tried it on my freebie tablet and it offered to open it in Office Suite - looked OK.  It may depend on what apps you have installed.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Only Me on August 22, 2016, 02:04:00 pm
Opens fine on my phone, need adobe though to view it....
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 22, 2016, 06:41:28 pm
I've managed to import the PDF into Paintshop Pro and export it as a PNG so this is what it should look like.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-220816184038.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43090)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on August 22, 2016, 08:40:23 pm
Looks Great, excellent size to work in
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 23, 2016, 08:15:14 am
A very nicely sized building.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Lachute on August 23, 2016, 02:54:07 pm
Nice shed in sight ! Don't forget the bar. :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 23, 2016, 09:25:30 pm
All the time the project has been in the planning stage, waiting for the space to be available, I have been planning the operating timetable.  The planning has been quite complex, but Iíll try to introduce it a little at a time. 

First, there will be thirteen trains arranged in fixed rakes (initially at least).  Each train takes its number from the proposed loco DCC ID.  The numbering may seem quite random but it represents the order that each first appears in the timetable.  Number 12 was added at a later date and so is out of order (and was swapped with Number 2) and the branch train was numbered 19 to avoid confusion with the main line trains.  The numbering is summarised below.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-230816211036.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43112)

Constructing the timetable was a lengthy process, but I will leave the details until later.  Suffice it to say, the timetable is divided into four cycles and each cycle into four sub-cycles.  Each sub-cycle consists of two parts, with the branch train running up in the first part and down in the second.  After all four cycles, all the trains will be returned to their starting position.  This is expected to take about three and a quarter hours.  Part 1 of sub-cycle 1 is shown below.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-230816211220.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43113)

Just to confuse the issue, I have shown the speed on the timetable as the scale speed in mph.  1 mph scale speed equates to 0.3 cm/sec.  In the final version I hope to indicate the speed in the timetable as DCC calibration settings (0 Ė 28).  I havenít actually used DCC yet, but I presume that each train will be calibrated so that a DCC setting of 28 equates to its maximum speed as set out in the list of trains above.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 23, 2016, 09:40:16 pm
Very impressive planning, Lawrence. I have a WTT for weekdays and Summer Saturdays which can also vary by year. However, it won't really be used until I have a bigger layout with Penmayne (the terminus) and Wadebridge and / or a fiddle yard to run trains between.

You can do many things with DCC including setting the performance characteristics for individual locos. (Not that I have done that but it might be worth doing for my diesel shunters.)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on August 23, 2016, 09:42:32 pm
I am an old DC dinosaur, Laurence, so that bit will zoom over my head but I do like the setting as my main layout is based loosely near Oxford so I can run WR, SR, LMR, and ER stuff, the latter having come across the Varsity Line so a huge percentage of my stock will be similar/same as yours :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 24, 2016, 09:30:49 pm
I wanted every train to be returned to its original starting position after the completion of timetable operations.  I had already decided that I would like every train to run once in each time timetable cycle, although later I allowed the local goods and milk train to remain in their depots for a complete cycle to allow for loading and unloading.  Because there were four intermediate passenger trains, I wanted there to be one per sub-cycle for each timetable cycle.  To allow them to run in a different order for each cycle, there would need to be four cycles in total. 

There were some other conditions that I wanted the timetable to fulfil.  Firstly, for each sub-cycle, there should be two parts.  During the first part, the branch train would run in the up direction, the 2-6-4T would run on the main in the down direction during the first sub-section, then in the up direction during the second, etc.  During the second part the branch train would run in the down direction and there were two alternatives on the main line. In one case prairie would run in the opposite direction to the 2-6-4T and a long-distance freight would run the other way.  In the other, a local freight (goods or milk) would run in the opposite direction to the 2-6-4T and express passenger would run the other way.

To see how this would work I constructed the following manifest.  Notice that I have numbered the sub-cycles continuously from 1 to 16.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-240816212607.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43134)

Sub-cycles 13 and 14 are slightly different, to allow for the local freight trains to return to their original starting position and 16 has an express passenger replacing the heavy freight used in 13.

After the manifest I needed to check whether this could all be achieved using eight storage loops at each end of the layout.  The following feasibility matrix was used.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-240816212824.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43135)

The numbers across the top represent the sub-cycles and the numbers in the table indicate the train in a particular loop at the end of a sub-cycle.  So Sub-cycle 0 represents the starting position.  It was essential that, at the end of Sub-cycle 16, the same trains were in each loop as at the start.  In turn, this allowed me to propose the following routes from up to down and vice versa (including routes commencing or terminating at local depots).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-240816212939.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43136)

After milk depot operations, it is necessary to invoke the Branch Main route (27) to ensure that the up main line is set to normal up operations.  The Goods Reset route (30) serves the same purpose on the down main line.  I will show the routes and associated points in a later posting.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 24, 2016, 09:38:31 pm
These are really very impressive. BR train planners used a diagram like a graph, I believe for timetable planning purposes. (I have one for the North Cornwall line in a book.)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 25, 2016, 11:54:39 am
Train graphs were (and probably still are) an essential planning tool for a real railway.  Back in BR days they were all made with lines on paper, although these days they are probably computer generated.  Essentially a train graph consists of lines representing the progress of all the trains.  The sloping lines are all straight lines with the slope determined by the average speed of the train and there are horizontal lines showing stationary trains.  Along the edge is a representation of the route indicating all the stations, junctions, passing loops etc.  Trains are shown travelling in both directions so the crossings at junctions and crossovers can be planned safely.  An example of a train graph is shown below.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-250816114840.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43140)

On a model railway a train graph would be of little help because generally there is only one station, only one junction and only one or two trains on the main line at any one time.  However, a simplified strip chart showing the speed of the trains and the switching of points or selection of routes can be of great help in planning an operational timetable.  Before the strip chart can be constructed it is necessary to work out how long each part of a journey will take for each train.  I have used a matrix to do this as shown here.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-250816115054.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43141)

The matrix is specific to DCC control and would need to be modified for simple DC control.  The Slack time is the time after the initial start that deceleration needs to begin and Slack 2 is the further time elapse before the final stop.  An example of a strip chart is shown below.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-250816115302.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43142)

This is for Sub-cycle 1 (from my previous post).  The sub-cycle has two parts.  The first part is shown as ď1Ē and the second part as ď1aĒ.  The strip chart allows the timings of the trains to be adjusted so the operator does not have to carry out more than one operation at a time, even though there may be several train movements going on at the same time.  The full operational timetable, part of which was shown in an earlier post, can be produced from the strip charts.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Caz on August 25, 2016, 07:17:17 pm
Without realising it was done it real practice I creating one of those graphs in Microsoft Excel to help me understand the Fairford timetable, put all the station and timing into Excel and using the right buttons it produced the graph.

Graph
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/main_3620.jpg)


Up
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/main_3581.jpg)

Down

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/main_3580.jpg)


Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 26, 2016, 12:29:26 pm
There are 44 points on my proposed layout.  Because I will be using DCC, it is possible to simplify the switching by grouping the points together in different combinations to form routes.  The points will be connected to the main track via Digikeijs DR4018 decoders, eight points to a decoder and the points will be numbered from 01 to 44.  To create the routes, I first had to record which points connected to which storage loop and which direction the points had to be switched to access that loop.  I have numbered the Up loops 01 to 08 and Down loops 11 to 18.  I have numbered a few other parts of the layout as follows:

19 - Goods Loop
20 - Branch Runarounds
21 - Branch Main
22 Ė Branch Access
23 Ė Goods Reset
24 Ė Milk Loop

I will be using a Gaugemaster DCC-02, which has a limit of 31 routes and 8 turnouts (points) per route, so it was essential to ensure that each storage loop could be accessed by no more than 3 turnouts because some of the station locations required 4 turnouts.  For each turnout, I mapped the loops that would be affected by it as shown below.  ď1Ē shows a turnout set to straight on whereas ď2Ē shows it set to turnout.  ď0Ē indicates ďdonít careĒ.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-260816122248.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43151)

Once the basic mapping had been achieved, I then had to construct the reverse map to show which turnouts (points) would be required for each storage loop and in which direction.  This was achieved by transposing the columns and rows of the map.  I have shown the result below. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-260816122519.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43152)

I have already shown the routes required to operate the timetable, so it was simply a case of mapping the loops onto the routes to produce the Route Map for the points.  For example, Route 3 runs ďoutĒ from loop 01 to loop 11, which means that Points 09, 10, 11, 17, 18 and 19 are all set to ď1Ē.  The Route Map is shown below.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-260816123134.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43153)

Well, that just about completes the technical bits about operational planning.  I hope it wasnít too boring and that at least some members got something out of it.  Before I go, I have one more picture to show you.  Many layouts have bridges on the layout.  However, not many have a BIG bridge in the garden (not really) just behind the train shed.  I thought you might like to see the location of the train shed.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-260816123430.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43154)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on August 26, 2016, 12:55:18 pm
 :hellosign: Many thanks for all the fascinating planning, not quite at this stage but maybe one day. As a aside is that the Tamar Bridge?
regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 27, 2016, 08:09:28 am
:hellosign: Many thanks for all the fascinating planning, not quite at this stage but maybe one day. As a aside is that the Tamar Bridge?
regards Derek.

It's actually the Humber Bridge. :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris Morris on August 27, 2016, 08:48:30 am
Going back to code 55 and code 80 my observations are as follows.
Maybe it's because I'm in my 60s but getting joiners onto code 55 track is a big pain. It is of course something you only do while building the layout. Code 80 is much easier to join.
Code 55 looks better.
You only get dead frog points in code 80. Live frogs are much better for slow running but wiring some track formations with live frog points can be technically challenging.
I've really not found any difference at all in the running. I don't have much old stock or any minitrix or Lima. The old Poole Farish coaches run fine on code 55.
The two codes can be joined together.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 27, 2016, 09:24:10 am
Although of a similar age, I have to admit that I have not had any problems fitting normal rail joiners to Code 55 track. (Insulated ones are a bit more difficult). However, being short-sighted, I have excellent close-up vision (without glasses).

Code 55 track certainly looks much better and live frog points are, indeed, much better for slow running. The extra wiring is not such a big problem. There is plenty of online info. and friendly advice from NGF members. Having someone skilled with a suitable soldering iron who has practised on scrap track (because of the ease of melting plastic sleepers) is a big help though.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 27, 2016, 12:28:13 pm
I originally decided on Code 80 because thatís what I used the last time I built an N gauge layout some 30 years ago (I donít think Code 55 was about then).  I note that Peco Code 80 Electrofrog is available, specifically SL-E395Eand SL-E396, so live frog running, which is what I plan, should be no problem with either Code rail.  I have no objection to using Code 55 in principle, although the difficulty of fitting rail joiners might be an issue.  I would want to fit insulated rail joiners to the frogs so that I can switch polarity without any risk of a short circuit.  If itís possible to electrically isolate the frogs from the connecting rail reliably and maintain smooth running without an insulated joiner that would solve that problem.  Also, I am thinking of using joiners between baseboards so that the baseboards could be separated, for instance, to transport the layout to another location.  Again, if reliable alignment for smooth running can be achieved without joiners then Code 55 would seem to be the answer. :help:

I notice that Peco Code 55 points all have a detached sleeper at each exit from the points.  Is there a particular purpose for this and can it present problems when laying track? ???

My short sight has deteriorated to the point that I now need 3.0 dioptre reading glasses, but I hope I will be able to see clearly while wearing them.  :doh:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 27, 2016, 01:04:17 pm
Good afternoon, Lawrence. The Peco Code 55 points all have a detached sleeper at each exit from the points to be placed under the rail joiners once the track is laid as, in order to fit the rail joiners, there can be no moulded sleepers, unlike with Code 80.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on August 27, 2016, 01:13:44 pm
I prefer code 55 as it looks better and is easier to work with. The points especially are more useful to me as the smallest point in code 80 is a 'medium' whereas the smallest point in code 55 is a 'small' (I hope that makes sense) and, space being at a premium for me, anything that allows me longer running lines is a Good Thing.
Like Chris I have found no difference in fitting fishplates to either code although the insulated rail joiners (IRJs) can be a pain ::)
I have found no issues with joining boards as I lay a length of flexitrack across the 2 boards and then cut the track with Xuron cutters which, to my mind, give a much smaller cut than using a razor saw.
Rather than fit fishplates on the join I prefer to have a wired connection, even if just using a piece of pluggable choc block. My boards are connected with bullet dowels and toggle catches sourced here (excellent service).......
http://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk/menu_fittings.htm (http://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk/menu_fittings.htm)

Hope this helps a little
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Greybeema on August 28, 2016, 08:37:22 am
Hi Lawrence,
Your assumption re DCC is correct. When you set up your loco you can set upper, lower and mid speed.  If mid speed is set in the middle the. The 28 or 126 steps will be evenly distributed. 

So for example on my layout all trains are set for a max speed of a scale 60mph.  So step 126 = 60 therefore step 63= 30 mph etc..  As you correctly say once you have set up acceleration and deceleration it's just a matter of cranking up to speed and watching it accelerate.

There is a little catch I will point out though.  On my layout there is not enough space between the storage siding and the front of the layout to complete full acceleration so a train starting from rest in the storage siding is still accellerating through the front of the layout or put another way - you are applying the breaks to stop it before it reaches top speed. 

Personally I have no problem with this but some might..
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 28, 2016, 08:56:48 am
There is a little catch I will point out though.  On my layout there is not enough space between the storage siding and the front of the layout to complete full acceleration so a train starting from rest in the storage siding is still accellerating through the front of the layout or put another way - you are applying the breaks to stop it before it reaches top speed. 

Thanks for the comments.  I have planned the time to accelerate and decelerate as 20s which means that for the intermediate and express passenger trains the distance required to accelerate and decelerate is about 1.8m (about 300 yards in scale distance).  Fortunately, I have been able to plan sufficient space for the trains to reach almost full speed before coming into view and for the back of the train to be almost out of view before deceleration begins.  As Far as the intermediate passengers are concerned, they can be at full speed for the whole of the straight part of the track prior to the curve before the station, still leaving room for 60 cm of coasting at 10mph along the platforms.  The slower trains require less distance, so there's no problem at all.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on August 28, 2016, 09:55:36 am
And there was me thinking digital was the future. With DC you just do all that with a turny knob thing! :P ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: NeMo on August 28, 2016, 10:33:20 am
And there was me thinking digital was the future. With DC you just do all that with a turny knob thing! :P ;)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: DCC is a stopgap technology. Like diesels in between steam and electric locomotives!

The weak point in all layouts is the contact between the rail and the loco. Break contact with either one of those two rails and the loco stops. The ideal scenario is to have power on board the loco, just as with any radio controlled car or aircraft, and use a wireless system to control the loco. Then the rail can get as dirty as you want without affecting performance.

Yes, I know some DCC locos have capacitors that can hold a bit of electrical charge. But that's not really the same thing at all!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 28, 2016, 10:51:26 am
And there was me thinking digital was the future. With DC you just do all that with a turny knob thing! :P ;)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: DCC is a stopgap technology. Like diesels in between steam and electric locomotives!

The weak point in all layouts is the contact between the rail and the loco. Break contact with either one of those two rails and the loco stops. The ideal scenario is to have power on board the loco, just as with any radio controlled car or aircraft, and use a wireless system to control the loco. Then the rail can get as dirty as you want without affecting performance.

Yes, I know some DCC locos have capacitors that can hold a bit of electrical charge. But that's not really the same thing at all!

Cheers, NeMo

That's a superficial view.  DCC is a signalling system and just happens to be track powered.  DCC chips today can be powered from an on board battery, and DCC signals can be sent and received by radio, its available but incredibly expensive and hence not popular.

The problem is also knowing in advance which loco you want to run and have it charged.  For a big collection or at a show the battery management becomes a nightmare.

On gauge 1 radio and batteries is fine but not N - even if you could squeeze the parts into an N loco body.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: NeMo on August 28, 2016, 10:59:12 am
Indeed @Snowwolflair (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3761), and I don't disagree that radio control, on-board powered N-gauge is impractical.

But my view isn't "superficial" -- which implies I haven't thought about this and my view can be dismissed by anyone with any knowledge.

Obviously the technology isn't there yet. But if you were given the choice between a loco that had its power onboard and one that didn't, but in all other regards the two were equally available for use at a moment's notice, which would you go for?

Speaking personally, I'd be delighted to never have to clean my tracks again, worry about wiring points properly, or any of those other things we have to do because of the way current is delivered to our locos.

I bought my little girl a Maerklin 'MyWorld' train set that has infrared control of an HO-scale train that contains disposable batteries. Lights and sounds are controlled by the same handset that controls speed and direction. Yes, it's basic, but it works AMAZINGLY well, and makes DCC look temperamental and unreliable, even if DCC is (obviously) able to provide many more options.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on August 28, 2016, 11:02:24 am
Come on, guys, I was only being flippant. I know that DCC, like garlic bread, is the future.

Sorry, Laurence, for hijacking your excellent thread :-[
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 28, 2016, 11:07:14 am
You have to separate DCC which is a signalling protocol derived from the original Motorola alarm system protocol and how it is powered.  DCC is not a stopgap for something better, how it is powered may be.

We all bought RELCO 40 years ago and we all now use digital DC controllers, so power supply reliability will move forward.

With DCC super caps are the answer and they are getting cheaper and smaller.  Some of the latest I have seen in the lab will power a loco for over 30 seconds.

As for cleaning tracks, dirty tracks leave deposits on coach and other wheels and cause them to run badly so you still have to clean tracks.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: NeMo on August 28, 2016, 11:09:34 am
As for cleaning tracks, dirty tracks leave deposits on coach and other wheels and cause them to run badly so you still have to clean tracks.

Maybe, but that's why the DJM's next project will be a working Railgrinder!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 28, 2016, 11:17:03 am
As for cleaning tracks, dirty tracks leave deposits on coach and other wheels and cause them to run badly so you still have to clean tracks.

Maybe, but that's why the DJM's next project will be a working Railgrinder!

Cheers, NeMo

Don't joke someone might try to make one and destroy their track.

LGB do one and it leaves distressed and pitted track - fastest way to spark erode your loco wheels. 

Track Magic and a cotton mop to apply it is much better.

If you must sand - ladies nail buffer blocks will clean and polish rails (as well as nails).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 28, 2016, 03:10:45 pm
I donít want to shift the focus away from the original purpose of this topic, which was to plot the progress of my train shed project.  However, considering that no more progress can be made until the train shed is installed later in September ,an aside about control and power systems might be useful here. 

Of course DCC is not the final solution.  Whatever system we use, if we are using track-based electric power, it is essential that the track be kept clean.  Certainly DCC does not offer a simulation of proper cab control. 

30 years ago I built an N-gauge layout using DC (there was no alternative) and designed, built and operated an inertial controller.  This was based using digital electronics to control the locos.  For those in the know, it was based around 7400 series TTL technology (apologies for the jargon) and provided a pulse width modulation output, similar to that provided by a DCC decoder.  There was a rotary control that represented the regulator valve, a horizontal slider that simulated the steam cut off function (right for forward left for reverse and central for zero motion of the piston valve) and a vertical slider for the brake.  Opening the regulator and increasing the steam cut off percentage allowed a speed reservoir to fill, while the brake bled speed for the speed reservoir.  The speed reservoir itself controlled the mark to space ratio of the full amplitude square wave to the track.  With everything shut off, the speed reservoir would gradually empty, representing the effect of coasting.  The only side effect was a high pitched hum from the electric motor.

The only problem was that it only controlled one locomotive and had to be switched between sections and points all had to be controlled separately, just like an ordinary DC layout.  What DCC does, and this is what appealed to me, is allow several locomotives to be controlled from a single walkaround (hand-held controller) together with the points, signals and anything else that needs to be controlled.  It also allows routes to be set up so that several points can be set to allow a train to move from an initial location to its final destination with a single setting of the controls.  In addition, it allows each locomotive to be programmed with a maximum speed and acceleration and deceleration rates.  So, if anyone could come up with a tiny Li -ion battery that would fit into a pannier tank and run continuously for the three hours of my timetable and develop a control system that would allow it to be operated from a single walkaround that controls all the trains and everything else, then that would be great.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 30, 2016, 09:02:03 pm
Installing the Infrastructure

Once the train shed has been installed, I will begin to send photos, both of the empty shell and as I begin to assemble the baseboards, fit the electrics and lay the track.  In the meantime, I have planned these activities and I will describe the plan here.  For reference, I have included the layout plan. The board outlines are shown in red and the cross-members in green. There will be 9 baseboards altogether and I have labelled them on the diagram.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-300816205430.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43230)

I am buying all the baseboards as kits from Model Railway Solutions.  The first task, prior to assembly of the base boards will be to drill the adjacent frame sections to fit the alignment dowels and connecting bolts.  The order of drilling is LF to FF, FF to RF, LL to LF, LB to LL, CL to LB, RR to RF, RB to RR and CR to RB.  As each pair of adjacent frame sections is drilled, the dowels will be inserted ready for joining.  Once all the drilling is complete, the frames will be assembled, but the 9mm ply boards will not be fitted until later.  Next the bottom of boards LF, RF, CL and CR will be marked to allow the accessory decoders to be fitted clear of the frame cross-members.  Then the tops of boards LF, FF, RF, LB, CL, RB and CR will be marked to ensure the points can be fitted with the point motors clear of the frame cross-members.  Following this, the braced leg sets will be attached to LF (2 pairs), RF (2 pairs), LB (1 pair at left end), CL (2 pairs), RB (1 pair at right end) and CR (2 pairs).  Finally the boards will be joined together as shown in the diagram, with each join held in place by a pair of M10 bolts with wing nuts (for easy dismantling if necessary).

Next the DCC wiring will be added to each frame.  For each board, a double busbar for the DCC (one for each polarity) will run from one end to the other.  Each busbar will consist of 16swg bare TCW (tinned copper wire) stretched between solder tags at each end of the board.  Connection between boards will be via twin plug and sockets.  This will supply the tracks and the control signals to the auxiliary decoders.  The program track will be the tail shunt to the milk depot and it will be connected via a DPDT (double pole double throw) switch so that the program track can be connected to the program output during programming and to the main for normal operations.  The auxiliary supply to the accessory decoders will be a twin core, daisy-chained to the three decoders in each half of the layout.

Once the basic wiring has been completed, the accessory decoders will be attached to the underside of the 9-ply boards and the boards will be positioned on the frames, with temporary fixings if necessary.  At this stage the track routes will be marked out and the cork underlay fixed to the boards.  The next task will be to make a template for the Seep PM1 point motors and then, for each point motor, the holes will be drilled and the motor attached.  Once all the points have been installed, the rest of the track will be laid and the track wired into the DCC supply.  I will probably use Peco power feed joiners as this will reduced the amount of soldering directly to the rails.  The points frogs will be connected via the PM1 change-over switch, fed from the DCC bus.  At this stage, all the point motors will be connected to the accessory decoders.

The next task is to install a sub-baseboard table to house the DCC controller, the auxiliary power supply and the DPST for the program track.  The DCC from the controller will be connected to the DCC bus at this stage and the accessory controllers programmed.  All points will be checked manually before screwing down the boards and programming the routes.  A physical check will be made on all routes before commissioning and testing.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on August 30, 2016, 09:06:10 pm
Thank you, Laurence, for that very detailed explanation. If I ever have a more complicated DCC layout, I will know where to go for detailed instructions.

You're very well-organised so I'm sure all will go to plan. I look forward to watching your layout develop.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on August 30, 2016, 09:36:03 pm
So what will you be doing next week then, Laurence? :-X
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 31, 2016, 11:28:16 am
So what will you be doing next week then, Laurence? :-X
If only it were that simple!  The Train Shed will be installed in four weeks time.  I wonít order the baseboards until the shed is up because, although the layout and the shed are designed to fit, I want to be certain of everything before I actually place the order.  Iím that sort of person.  Thereís about a five week lead time on the baseboards, but I can have all the electrical stuff ready for when they arrive.  So it will be an over-Winter project.  At least Iíll have less to do in the garden, although thereís still some infrastructure work for us to complete.  I usually get all the digging up roots, shovelling and barrowing jobs. :doh:  But the fruit and vegetable beds will not require much attention.  All that will be left to harvest by then are the carrots, parsnips and cabbages.  I also have a plan for commissioning and testing, but more of that later, if you can stay awake.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on August 31, 2016, 09:05:17 pm
Commissioning and testing may not take place until the spring.  However, during the construction phase, I hope to be able to post plenty of pictures and anecdotes about my experience of building the layout.  But when the layout is complete, I will need to start commissioning the locos and testing the routes.  I have drawn up a commissioning sheet which shows the order of commissioning and the procedure for each loco.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-310816205650.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43244)

The locos will be commissioned in the order shown, from left to right.  Loco 3 is last because Loco 3 is the default address that all the locos will have on delivery.  Because the second part of the commissioning is carried out by programming from the main output, it is important to ensure that there is only one Loco 3 on the layout at any time.  I begin with Loco 19, because it hauls the branch train so it can be used to test the whole of the main line and then the branch, including the run-arounds.

The first stage for each loco is to change over the DPDT switch to the program track to connect it to the program output of the DCC controller.  The first part of the commissioning is then carried out on the program track.  The loco programming consists of setting the configuration variables (CVs) as defined by the NMRA.  First, the loco ID (CV1) is programmed as its address.  Then the start voltage (CV2) is entered.  The available voltages to enter as CVs are 1 to 255, with 255 representing the full rectified voltage.  So with 28 steps (the default for the Loco decoders) CV1 needs to be about 1/28 of the top voltage, TV (CV5).  Iíve actually chosen 5 for every loco.  Acc (CV3) is the acceleration time and is approximately the time from rest to top speed in seconds.  Likewise dEc (CV4) is the deceleration time.  TV (CV5) is the voltage required for the top speed of the loco.  I wonít know until I do the second part of the commissioning what the correct value is for each train, because it partly depends on the load (number of coaches, wagons, etc).  CV6 is the mid voltage and may not be required if the decoder has a linear response.

After the first part of commissioning, the program track is connected to the main output via the DPDT.  The routes are set to allow the loco to move forward and the rolling stock are added.  Once the train has exited onto the main line, routes are set for the calibration phase.  In this case, the time is measure for a complete circuit at full speed.  For 60mph the time should be 150s, 50mph 180s, 40mph 225s and 25mph 360s.  After two or three circuits, CV5 can be adjusted if necessary and the time checked again.  Once the top speed has been verified, the routes can be set to park the train in its allocated starting loop.  However, in the case of Loco 19, the first to be commissioned, it is used to test all the routes before commissioning continues.  The tests are shown below.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-310816205921.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43245)

All the mainline routes will be tested in turn.  After that, the branch access will be tested followed by the branch run-arounds.  The branch train will then be parked in its starting position for the timetable.  However, it may not be plain sailing, which is why the testing and commissioning is important. :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 02, 2016, 07:57:40 am
Iím getting quite excited.  In four weeks time the train shed will be ready for occupation.  Four weeks tomorrow weíll be having a train shed warming and then itís down to hard graft.  Iíve already made my first purchase.  OK, itís only a real of tinned copper wire, but you have to start somewhere.  Iíve taken a picture of it to help build the excitement. :sleep:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-020916075454.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43261)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 07, 2016, 07:22:27 am
Three weeks today, the shed installers will arrive and by the end of the following day it will all be finished :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 07, 2016, 07:29:06 am
Good news, Lawrence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on September 07, 2016, 10:06:08 am
Mancave here we come :claphappy:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 23, 2016, 12:23:19 pm
This time next week the train shed should be installed and I can order the baseboards.:claphappy: We're planning a train shed warming party next Saturday and I'll post some pics of the shed as it progresses.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 23, 2016, 07:14:51 pm
There's been a slight hitch.  :worried:  I received an Email saying the electrician from the supply company wanted to come on Monday October 3rd to connect all the electrics.  I told them that it all needed to be finished before Saturday.  The result is a compromise.  The electrician is coming on Friday, so, hopefully, all's well the ends well. :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 28, 2016, 01:38:50 pm
Today's the day the train shed is expected.  The first truck arrived at about 0820.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916132947.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43937)

Two others followed.  They began to unload and then the floor went down

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916133315.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43938)

The sides were put into place

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916133408.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43939)

Now the building is starting to look like a building.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916133458.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=43940)

More later.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 28, 2016, 01:51:19 pm
Looking good, Lawrence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 28, 2016, 02:52:59 pm
First there was no door

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916141635.jpeg)

Then there was a door

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916144907.jpeg)

And then I got my first look inside

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916145006.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 28, 2016, 03:35:47 pm
That's fast progress! 8-)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 28, 2016, 05:04:00 pm
The train shed structure is all finished.  Here's what it looks like from the outside.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916165701.jpeg)

And here's the inside. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916165753.jpeg)

As you can see, the electrics are not installed yet.  Here's another internal view.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916165821.jpeg)

The electrician's coming on Friday morning and he should be finished by lunch time.  Now to order the baseboards.  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on September 28, 2016, 05:51:07 pm
That's one really posh train shed!  :envy: :envy: :envy: :envy:

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 28, 2016, 07:18:06 pm
That's very fast work. I hope that the electrician turns up and completes the work on schedule so that you can progress to the baseboards, very soon.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on September 28, 2016, 08:26:37 pm
Very nice mancave but I'm sure you'll be fitting blinds, camera(s) and machine guns to deter prying eyes/hands :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 28, 2016, 08:32:46 pm
Very nice mancave but I'm sure you'll be fitting blinds, camera(s) and machine guns to deter prying eyes/hands :)

Exactly my thoughts, too (minus the guns)!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on September 28, 2016, 08:34:41 pm
We don't mess about with tea leaves, Chris :no: >:D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on September 28, 2016, 10:24:32 pm
 :hellosign: Excellent looking train room, look forward to progress
regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on September 28, 2016, 10:58:58 pm
Laurence

A very tidy looking shed for your model railway.

Can I suggest adding a reverse cycle air conditioner to keep you warm in winter and cool in summer. My train room in an outside tin shed looks like it might be of similar size to yours and I've equipped it with a 1 kw unit that get the room to a comfortable temperature within 5 minutes. Saves me from dripping sweat into my electronics in summer and shivering in winter. Well worth the money and really doesn't use much power.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 29, 2016, 02:26:07 pm
Thanks for all the helpful comments.  On the subject of comfort, all the panels have really thick insulation (the floor insulation is 100mm thick) and it has domestic grade double glazing.  The electrician will be fitting a 1.5kW thermostatically controlled heater, which the fitters tell me I will only need on for a short while before the room becomes warm.  All the windows are opening so, in summer, it should be reasonably OK for temperature.

On the subject of security, all the windows have key-operated locks and the door is a standard domestic grade multi-point locking affair.  In fact, the security is probably better than on the house, apart from the house alarm.  The train shed is situated at the bottom of the back garden which can only be accessed by coming through the front gates and past the side of the house or through a hedge from one of my neighbours gardens.  The front gates are over 2m high and the neighbours all have gates as well.  To get through from my neighbours gardens an intruder would have to breech thick hedges.  Foxes and rabbits manage to get under the hedges and squirrels over them, but it is not a very inviting prospect for an intruder.  I will probably fit an alarm anyway.

I have re-measured up today and there's a slight hitch.  I've decided that the 2 ft gap across the doorway is insufficient and so have had a slight re-design.  I held back on ordering the baseboards for this very reason.  The revised layout plan is shown here.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-300916114753.png)

I have had to replace each 4 ft X4 ft board for the storage loops by a 4ft X 2 ft board plus a 4 ft X 18 ins board.  Also I have had to add to triangular corner boards to accommodate the branch run rounds.  There will be 150mm less for each route to and from the loops, but the up to down (and vice versa) run will still be about 14m (well over a mile in scale distance).  Otherwise the layout remains unchanged.  I will order the baseboards today.  I'll post some more pics when the electrics are installed.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 30, 2016, 06:41:09 am
The baseboards and braced leg sets are all ordered.  I know there's a lead time on them, but I hope it won't be too long.  The electrician's coming today.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on September 30, 2016, 05:04:43 pm
The electrician has finished and were already moving in tables and chairs for tomorrow's train shed warming party.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-300916165526.jpeg)

There's one light fitting that is faulty, but he is going to send a replacement.  I can fit it myself because the fittings simply twist in and out of the tracks.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-300916165431.jpeg)

Here are a couple of other pictures.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-300916165219.jpeg)

If you look carefully, you can see the heater in the far corner.  I intend to use the EPS packing for modelling the landscape at some future date.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-300916165320.jpeg)

As soon as the baseboards arrive, it will be full steam ahead. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on September 30, 2016, 09:24:13 pm
Not just a good size mancave but also a cosy one, Laurence :thumbsup:
I suggest you resist any attempt to have electronic communications between house and mancave.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: 47033 on September 30, 2016, 11:52:00 pm
Very, very nice indeed. That looks like a very high quality shed.

Jamie
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Ditape on October 01, 2016, 12:23:31 am
 :envy: :envy: :envy: :jealous:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 01, 2016, 06:40:07 am
Not just a good size mancave but also a cosy one, Laurence :thumbsup:
I suggest you resist any attempt to have electronic communications between house and mancave.
The trouble is these days, the mobile phone always works.  I can't even drop it in a bucket of water because it is waterproof (I dropped the last on in the pond and it had to be replaced).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Neonoodle on October 01, 2016, 07:30:17 am
Looks fantastic! Bet you cant wait to get lost for hours or days at a time in there!

Neil
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 01, 2016, 10:04:13 am
Today's the train shed warming.  I put up some pictures to give people an idea of the project.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-011016095709.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-011016095757.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-011016095905.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-011016095950.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: bridgiesimon on October 01, 2016, 10:20:58 am
I am in the planning stage of a similar project, what company have you used for the building? They seem to vary in standard and price significantly.

best wishes and good luck for the developing fun times ahead
Simon
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on October 01, 2016, 10:45:06 am
 :hellosign: Many thanks for the updates, looking forward to the build
 regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 01, 2016, 06:53:54 pm
I am in the planning stage of a similar project, what company have you used for the building? They seem to vary in standard and price significantly.

I used Pro Workshops.  They are very good, the workmen quick and reliable and the customer service is very good.  You can find them at http://www.proworkshop.co.uk/garden-workshops/index.html. (http://www.proworkshop.co.uk/garden-workshops/index.html)  Go into the configurator and you can see the price change as you configure your workshop.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on October 02, 2016, 07:49:14 am
Thanks but got a 404 Not Found error on that link but this shorter one worked OK:

http://www.proworkshop.co.uk/garden-workshops/ (http://www.proworkshop.co.uk/garden-workshops/)

HTH

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: bridgiesimon on October 02, 2016, 10:18:28 am
Thank you for the link, wil look into their options as well as others I have found.
best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 02, 2016, 11:23:45 am
Sorry about the link.  It worked when I did a preview but, somehow, a full stop had crept into the URL tag, which messed it all up.  I have corrected it now and the original link works OK.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 20, 2016, 01:34:35 pm
Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for the first baseboards to arrive, so I've nothing to show about the construction progress.  Martin is producing the three boards to go along the back of the shed first, so I await their arrival with anticipation.  In the meantime, with the pound dropping like a stone, I have already purchased my Digikeijs accessory decoders from Holland.  Here they are

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-201016125811.jpeg)

and here's one in close up.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-201016125917.jpeg)

Each will operate 8 sets of points.  They are smaller than I had expected, so I will be able to mount them directly onto the baseboard frames instead of having to mark out the underside of the boards.

I've just ordered five reels of wire (red, black. blue, brown and green) from RS together with solder tags to secure the bus lines to the boards.  I've also ordered some plug and socket sets via Ebay to make the connections between the boards.  Fortunately, there's plenty to do in the garden at the moment, so boredom hasn't set in yet, but I do want to get started in earnest.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 23, 2016, 01:24:27 pm
There's still no sign of the baseboards.  So I've included a picture of the rest of the vegetable garden from the front door of the train shed.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-231016131106.jpeg)

However, the wire and solder tags from RS have arrived (the green wire is on back order, but I won't need that until I start to wire the point motors and frogs).  I guess I need to get out my old Antex 15W soldering iron and start practising soldering the bus wires to solder tags.  It's over 40 years old, but it still works.  My other soldering iron, of a similar age, is a Weller solder gun, but I think that might be a bit too much for track soldering!  I'll post some pics of the results.

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 23, 2016, 05:42:44 pm
I've completed the test bus for the baseboards.  I used two RS tags screwed to a piece of chipboard off-cut and connected them via a length of 22 SWG tinned copper wire (TCW). 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-231016172516.jpeg)

I used M4 tags and fixed them to the board using Number 6 wood screws.  The tags were bent upwards at 90 degrees and the TCW was attached to each tag with a sound mechanical joint.  Finally, my trusty Antex was used to heat the joint while applying Multicore solder to the other side of the joint in the manner that I used to teach when I trained technicians.  The 15W Antex struggled a bit and I had to leave it on the joint for longer than I would have really liked.  If I had been using insulated wire, the insulation might have become heat affected near the joint.  Of course, with TCW, I could have used my Weller without fear of harm.  However, I think I will invest in a 25W soldering iron, particularly for soldering to Code 55 rails.  Here's a close up of one of the joints.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-231016172648.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 27, 2016, 05:18:12 pm
My first RTR coach arrived today.  Here it is in its box, just as I received it.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-271016170704.jpeg)

It's a suburban second.  Now it may seem strange that I am ordering rolling stock when the baseboards haven't arrived yet, but I saw a report on the n-gauge facebook group page that with the fall in the pound, practically all model railway products are set for a rise of anywhere between 10% and 20%.  This is because they are all imported and priced in US dollars.  So I decided to order as much as I could ASAP.  I have ordered all my locomotives, the track, points and point motors, almost all of the rolling stock, controllers, etc, etc.  So at least I have something to get excited about now as I await delivery.  A few items of rolling stock are not available anywhere at the moment so I will have to add them as they become available.  I couldn't get a 9F from any of the normal stockists, but I have located one on ebay and ordered it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 27, 2016, 05:27:55 pm
The Suburban coaches are very nice models. Yours looks like BR Crimson livery one. I think you're very wise to buy as much new rolling stock as possible in view of the forthcoming price rises due to the fall of the GBP of around 15%. This will also affect the price of DCC chips, too.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 28, 2016, 06:44:55 pm
My first loco arrived today, a BR standard 2-10-0 9F, 92006.  I bought it on ebay, but it needs a chip, so I'll have to buy one.  Also today, my Weller 25 Watt soldering iron arrived plus the outstanding green cable from RadioSpares.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-281016184005.jpeg)

Sorry about the photo quality, but I don't want to take it out of its wrapper until I have somewhere to put it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on October 28, 2016, 08:13:07 pm
Handle the 9F with great care as the cardan (drive) shaft twixt loco & tender can pop out very easily.
This I know :doh:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Croxy on October 29, 2016, 02:29:21 am
Handle the 9F with great care as the cardan (drive) shaft twixt loco & tender can pop out very easily.
This I know :doh:

Ditto.........very impressed with the shed and the layout plan looks fantastic........
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 29, 2016, 06:50:56 am
Handle the 9F with great care as the cardan (drive) shaft twixt loco & tender can pop out very easily.
This I know :doh:
Thanks for the advice.  Is it easy to re-locate it if it does?  And will I have to disconnect the tender to fit the chip?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Jerry Howlett on October 29, 2016, 01:35:09 pm
Handle the 9F with great care as the cardan (drive) shaft twixt loco & tender can pop out very easily.
This I know :doh:
Thanks for the advice.  Is it easy to re-locate it if it does?  And will I have to disconnect the tender to fit the chip?

Easy to "pop it back in" as long as it hasn't embedded itself in the carpet or the dog.
Not a DCC man but the chip is located under the coal load. So that just lifts out.

Jerry
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on October 29, 2016, 03:38:51 pm
Not checked in for a while, but the train shed project is coming along great!  hope the shed warming went well and the baseboards don't take much longer to come.... you are very organised, will give you that!

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 29, 2016, 04:13:00 pm
More goodies arrived today.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/3091-291016160242.jpeg)

The 2 brake composites and the 4 insulated vans came from Antics and the suburban composite from Peter's models.  These are part of the "mop up" of items I couldn't order from Hattons.  The main Hattons order was dispatched yesterday, so it should arrive early next week.  There may still be a few outstanding items on back order, but the majority should come in the main delivery. 

I managed to locate the final outstanding item in the US on ebay.  The price is similar to the UK price, but the postage is quite a lot more.  It is not exactly what I wanted, another WR brake composite, but a full brake, which will go well with the XP passenger hauled by a Hall.

The baseboards are being manufactured and they are expected within the next two weeks.  So it shouldn't be long before I start construction in earnest.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 29, 2016, 05:01:24 pm
A very nice selection of rolling stock there, Laurence. I'm very fond of the BR WR Chocolate & Cream livery and have a lot (far more than I really ned even for a 1962 Summer Saturday!) of BR Standard coaches in this livery. Have you considered a Collett or Hawksworth BG or a Siphon G (Lima body on Dapol chassis) for your parcels stock?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Croxy on October 29, 2016, 06:20:12 pm
Handle the 9F with great care as the cardan (drive) shaft twixt loco & tender can pop out very easily.
This I know :doh:
Thanks for the advice.  Is it easy to re-locate it if it does?  And will I have to disconnect the tender to fit the chip?

It's not too hard to put back in.....just a bit fiddly.....not hard to fit the chip but the drive shaft does tend to pop out sometimes when handling the loco and tender together depending on how the two parts are moved.......
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on October 31, 2016, 07:55:50 pm
I received three more coaches today.  Two suburban composites, one in BR crimson and one in BR maroon.  The subtle difference between them makes for more interest.  Also, the WR full brake arrived, not from the US (my mistake).  The one coming from the US is a WR buffet.  I've also received a maroon buffet, so most of the mopping up is now done.  I had a failed delivery from Parcel Force today.  I suspect it's the auxiliary power supply for the accessory decoders, but I'll know for sure tomorrow.  These are all the coaches I've received so far. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-311016195240.jpeg)

As soon as some track arrives I'll take them out of their boxes and display them in all their glory.  Hopefully, by then there will be some (possibly lots of) additions.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 31, 2016, 09:12:38 pm
I have pretty much the same coaches, Lawrence, as these ones. In the case of the WR Chocolate & Cream ones, probably, even the same running numbers. (So, some scope for a special train if your WTT has a path for one, later?)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 01, 2016, 08:10:32 am
Yes, both of the brake composites have the same number, but as they will be on different trains that will never be seen together, I don't think anyone will notice, unless they happen to be a train spotter of the worst kind.  I expect that many of the second class coaches will also have duplicate numbers, but I am determined to get everything running as RTR now and I can address things like stock numbers later.  In fact, once the layout is up and fully running, the next priority will be the scenery, so stock numbers comes some way down on the list.

At some time in the future I may buy a Castle or a rebuilt Scott, so I could organise a Cant Cove holiday special.  However, I'll need an additional hidden siding to put it in when not in use.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 01, 2016, 08:22:35 am
Thanks for your reply, Laurence. If you're only buying the latest (what was 'Blue Riband') standard GF coaches you'll have some excellent models but may have to renumber any duplicates, later, or wait until another production run with different running numbers (which does happen). However, at N Scale running numbers are not, usually, visible at normal viewing distance so it's not a priority. I also have some of the previous standard 'enhanced' made in China, BR Chocolate & Cream and Lined Maroon coaches. So, I don't have any duplicate running numbers. A special to Cant Cove, next summer would be great. I have two "Castles" and one "Hall" (all awaiting DCC-fitting): Graham Farish by Bachman N - 370-150 BR 7004 "Eastnor Castle" - Double Chimney; super-detailed Graham Farish N - BR 4096 "Highclere Castle", Graham Farish by Bachmann, and N - 372-000 "Hall" Class 4-6-0 5955 "Garth Hall" BR Green as well as, here (DCC-fitted) 7816 "Frilsham Manor", GWR 4-6-0 Locomotive, Ixion Model Railways - super-detailed. (Really anything bigger than a "Mogul" 2-6-0 would be too heavy for Cant Cove's RA.

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 01, 2016, 01:57:41 pm
I have two "Castles" and one "Hall" (all awaiting DCC-fitting): Graham Farish by Bachman N - 370-150 BR 7004 "Eastnor Castle" - Double Chimney; super-detailed Graham Farish N - BR 4096 "Highclere Castle", Graham Farish by Bachmann, and N - 372-000 "Hall" Class 4-6-0 5955 "Garth Hall" BR Green as well as, here (DCC-fitted) 7816 "Frilsham Manor", GWR 4-6-0 Locomotive, Ixion Model Railways - super-detailed. (Really anything bigger than a "Mogul" 2-6-0 would be too heavy for Cant Cove's RA.
It sounds as though your RA is somewhat lower than double red!  Do you have another layout to run the big locomotives or have you simply got a lot of surplus motive power?  Or are they intended for Penmayne which, as far as I can see from your various posts, is yet to be built (please correct me if I'm wrong)?

My DDC concepts Cobalt PSU 2+ arrived today so, when the main controller arrives (and of course the track) I will have plenty of power for the Digikeijs controllers to operate the Seep PM1 point motors.  I decided on an auxiliary power unit because some of the routes operate 8 points simultaneously and almost all operate 6.  Unfortunately, I didn't realise that it comes without a mains lead, so I have just ordered one.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 01, 2016, 09:46:52 pm
In real life, Laurence, for use as a wartime diversionary route, Bodmin Junction to Wadebridge was upgraded to take GWR 43XX 2-6-0s (presumably the maximum the SR North Cornwall line could take) but that was all. I have stretched that to "Manor" Class instead. (However, "Castles" and "Halls" are really 'Rule One' so are not scheduled in the WTT and are at the end of the DCC-fitting list. My two "Castles" have personal significance.) However, from Wadebridge to Penmayne is a short extension if the WR CCE was persuaded in the Late 1950s that the Bodmin Road-Wadebridge line needed further upgrading to carry peak summer Saturday traffic (Penmayne, the terminus, being the population size of Newquay rather Padstow). (In any case, in my alternative North Cornwall, Padstow was rail-less and a very small fishing village the opposite bank of the River Camel from the bustling port and resort of Penmayne!) However, "Kings", never!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 02, 2016, 07:54:15 am
Moreton-in-Marsh would certainly have seen Saturday holiday specials, but I'm not so sure about the re-sited location of Morton Hinmarch.  However, there were regular Saturday holiday specials running through Leamington Spa General, so I think a few could be diverted via Morton Hinmarch.  The only problem is what to do with them when they're not running.  I suppose I could think about having a Holiday Saturday running day, but that would involve considerable stock relocation.  Nevertheless, it's a thought for the future.  After all, when (and if) I get everything completed, I will need something to continue to challenge me.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 02, 2016, 09:29:18 pm
Really good news today.  My BIG Hattons order is due to be delivered tomeorrow.  I'll get a one hour slot in the morning.  So, although the baseboards have still not arrived, I will at least be able to lay out some track on the wallpaper table, set out some trains and take some pics.  I made an error ordering the track.  By mistake, I ordered concrete sleepers instead of wooden sleepers.  Now I know that Moreton-in-Marsh didn't get concrete sleepers until the seventies, but I'm not sure about Morton Hinmarch.  If I use the modern prototype technique of leveling up the ballast with the tops of the sleepers, it may not be not be so noticeable. 

I have taken a picture of the auxiliary power supply that came yesterday and you can also see some heat shrink that came from Radiospares.  I have also some red heat shrink and a DPST on order from RS.  The heat shrink is to identify the bare bus wires and the DPST to switch the program track from Program to Main (and vice versa).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-021116140116.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 02, 2016, 10:12:18 pm
Concrete sleepers were in use well before the 1960s so you can justify having them on the mainline but you would need wooden ones elsewhere, I'm afraid, Lawrence. Is all the track you ordered / have concrete sleepered?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 03, 2016, 07:04:52 am
Yes, I'm afraid it is.  I didn't realise that I'd clicked the wrong part number until I checked what was coming.  I'll just have to bury the sleepers in the ballast in the station and on the branch and make sure there's plenty of ash between the tracks.  The point work is all code 55, so that should be OK.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 03, 2016, 08:14:38 am
Can you ask the seller to swop them, Lawrence?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Fardap on November 03, 2016, 08:18:00 am
Can you ask the seller to swop them, Lawrence?

I am sure a decent supplier would if you asked them, seems a shame not to have the correct track from the start and you will always be looking at it and wishing you had changed it, well I would...

I would call them and explain see what they suggest
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 03, 2016, 08:30:27 am
I have sent Hattons an Email, so I will see what they say.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on November 03, 2016, 08:37:12 am
I'm sure they'll change it for you.
You'll just have to pay the extra postage.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on November 03, 2016, 08:41:15 am
Agree with all of above.

If you're gonna do it, do it right.  :thumbsup:

As CiP says, you'll be looking at it in the future and wishing you'd changed it.

Sending it back for exchange and waiting a bit longer will be worth it in the long run.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 03, 2016, 09:26:40 am
Hattons have confirmed that they will change the track, but I don't think I'll need to send it all back because I need about 20m in each set of hidden storage loops and it comes in 30m packs.  In fact, if I use concrete sleepers on the main, outside of the station, I should be able to get away with changing only one pack for the branch and station.  It would be good to keep at least one pack so that I can set out some of the trains for photos.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on November 03, 2016, 09:58:33 am
Sounds good to me!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on November 03, 2016, 11:22:05 am
Hattons have been very helpful when I have made the occasional goof.

In my experience, it's always handy to have a couple of extra lengths of flexi to cover changes of plan and/or 'user error'! :doh:

Hope the boards arrive soon so you can start laying down all that track.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on November 03, 2016, 11:25:03 am
Looking forward to those train photos.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 03, 2016, 05:15:36 pm
The big order has arrived! :claphappy: I've opened the big box and emptied it but I'm still checking the contents.  However, I couldn't resist taking a picture of the first train to be assembled.  It's a Hall with two WR firsts, a WR restaurant car, a BR second and a WR full brake.  When it's up and running it will have 4 WR firsts, the WR restaurant, a BR combined restaurant/kitchen car, 5 BR seconds and the brake.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-031116170143.jpeg)

I may keep all the track and simply order another pack of wooden sleepers on the grounds that the spare track might come in handy later if and when I get round to running holiday specials or other additional trains that will require more hidden storage tracks/sidings.  At the moment, I've no idea where I would put them, but these things have a habit of springing to mind when least expected.  A pack of wooden sleepers would be more than enough for the branch and the track within the station and the mainline can be concrete, as would all the hidden loops.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on November 03, 2016, 08:24:52 pm
A handsome train, indeed.  :thumbsup:

My favourite period!  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on November 03, 2016, 08:51:44 pm
The Hall really looks the part with those chocolate and cream carriages.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: tunneroner61 on November 03, 2016, 09:18:08 pm
Just come across this thread. Mighty impressed with the shed - wish I could have one!!!

Given you are going to use DCC and seem to have a high tech approach I was a little surprised to see you are going to use SEEP solenoids for point control. These days servos are all the rage for all sort of auxiliary controls such as points, signals and level crossings and wonder why you have stayed with conventional controls.

Norman
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 03, 2016, 10:37:43 pm
Thanks for the photo., Lawrence. BR WR Chocolate & Cream is my favourite colour scheme for BR Standard coaches (and it does go very well with BR Green locos.), followed by BR SR Green. Alas, in the early 1960s, Stanley Raymond was appointed WR General Manager with instructions to break up the WR's Chocolate and Cream named express rakes and enforce the use of regular BR Maroon stock.

Your proposed rake seems to have rather a lot of First Class coaches (however, the WR were allocated quite a lot of BR Mk1 corridor firsts) but no Composites and no brake end coaches (just a full brake).

Some BR WR Carriage Formations

BCK, BSK
BSK, CK, BSK
BSK, SK, BCK
BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK
BSK, SK, CK, BSK
BSK, SK, CK, BCK

Plus various longer formations such as:

BCK, 6 SK, BCK
BCK, 4 SK, BCK, BG
BCK, 2 SK, 2 CK, 2 SK, BSK
BSK, 3 SK, 2 CK, 3 SK, BSK

Restaurant Cars (RFOs) were twinned with Restaurant / Kitchen (RU) coaches, as you write. If the Restaurant Car was followed by a CK, the 1st-class end was, usually, next to the Restaurant Car. Sometimes SOs were used at one end of the Restaurant Car and a FO, FK, or CK at the other.

AS an example, the standard formation of WR six-coach sets (though not all were standard) on Paddington-Birkenhead trains in the early 1960s was BSK, SK, FK, SK, SK, BSK, which changed to BSK, SK, CK, CK, SK, BSK in the September 1964 carriage workings.

The "Cambrian Coast Express" 1961 Winter rake, 7 vehicles, all Mk 1 Chocolate and Cream was: BSK, SK, FK, RU, FK, SK, BSK. I would suggest that this is a good prototype for your express. In the Summer, additional SKs would be added, maybe a CK, at one end of the rake and, maybe, a BCK (useful for carrying extra luggage) towards the centre of the rake at the end of the additional SK, SK, CK added at one end of the Winter rake. The additional coaches were very likely to be BR Maroon and could be Hawksworth, Collett, Stanier, or even Gresley design wooden-bodied ones (I have plenty of photos. of trains with one of these at the front)! Later, Hawksworth and BR Standard designs in BR Maroon were used. When the WR C&C rakes were broken up the C&C coaches were mixed in with BR Maroon ones.

Glad you've found a possible solution to having wooden sleepered track and not only concrete-sleepered.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 04, 2016, 07:13:42 am
Thanks for the train info, Chris.  When I became enthralled with the WR, having been a MR enthusiast to start with, BR ran much longer trains.  The 15.00 ex-Snow Hill was 24 coaches hauled by a King piloted by a Hall.  There were several first class coaches, a first class restaurant car, a kitchen car (yes, a whole car) and a second class restaurant car.  In those days, there were still plenty of rhubarb and custard (crimson and cream) coaches about, although the MR were introducing all maroon on some of its premier services, such as the Caledonian.  The LM also had very long trains, the 12.00 from Euston often being 24 coaches.  Even much later, in the blue and grey days, when I used to travel North from Bristol, often behind a Class 50, the trains were typically 15 coaches (they struggled a bit up Lickey, but always made the top). 

At the moment it appears to be impossible to buy RTR SKs in chocolate and cream, so I will be running good old rhubarb and custard SKs on the WR rakes until such time as I can either repaint them or replace them.

I have now checked all the stock delivered and everything is fine.  The task for this weekend is to connect up the DCC controller to a section of track and program all the loco chips with the basic functions, but I will put out a few more short rakes for pics.

I have chosen SEEP point motors because they are easy to use with a Digikeijs decoder, simple to install once I have made a template and have a built in switch for the frog polarity.  They are also relatively inexpensive.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on November 04, 2016, 07:54:31 am
Had you seen this, Lawrence?

http://www.hattons.co.uk/225593/Graham_Farish_374_064_LN02_Mk1_SK_second_corridor_in_chocolate_cream_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.hattons.co.uk/225593/Graham_Farish_374_064_LN02_Mk1_SK_second_corridor_in_chocolate_cream_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx)

Not looked elsewhere but you never know if the smaller retailers may be holding a few in stock.

HTH

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 04, 2016, 08:09:37 am
Thanks Dave.  I had seen it, but they only have 1 and I needed 15, so I thought I would stick with rhubarb and custard for now.  However, I might order the one because I still need another 3 SKs.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 04, 2016, 08:41:14 am
Good morning, Lawrence, those were certainly 'Jumbo Trains'. Mixing BR Crimson & Cream, WR Chocolate & Cream and BR Maroon liveried stock all within a train would be quite prototypical for the early 1960s. I may have a spare WR Chocolate & Cream BR Standard SK, I'll have a look. I look forward to seeing your full-length trains in due course. Your short train previously shown is about as long as will ever appear at Cant Cove! For visiting trains, in addition to my "Manor", I have a BR WR Lined Green 4MT 4-6-0 and will have a SR BR Lined Black Early Crest 4MT 4-6-0 which can replace locos. at Banbury, Oxford, Reading, or Bristol. (Eventually, I will have a BR WR Lined Green "Hall" and maybe a "Grange", too.) I also have NB Type 2s, "Hymeks" and "Warships" plus D1662 "Isambard Kingdom Brunel" which can replace steam locos. en route.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 04, 2016, 09:19:20 am
Wow! That's a pretty impressive collection of locos.  You could almost run the direct route from Paddington to Snow Hill with that lot.  Sadly that route has now been reduced to the Chiltern line into Marylebone.  It's a very good route, particularly if you join the train at Warwick, but it somehow lacks the appeal of the big expresses from Shrewsbury and beyond.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 04, 2016, 01:32:49 pm
I connected up the Gaugemaster DCC02 this morning and soldered a couple of wires to the end of a length of track.  I was able to program the Hall (Loco 11) easily using "Program on Program Track". I then switched the wires to the main output and programmed CV6 using "Program on Main."  The recall function works well but I think it might be easier to simply enter the loco number when they are all entered in the walkaround.  I tried a couple of slow test runs to check everything is OK, but just a short distance at low speed, because I haven't lubricated the gears yet (as advocated by Dapol).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 05, 2016, 08:04:10 am
I found soldering to Code 55 rail more challenging than I'd anticipated. :(  I used to teach technicians how to solder microprocessors to PCBs, but that was thirty years ago and I'm probably a little rusty. Also it seems to be more difficult now that I need to wear glasses for close work.  I guess I'll just have to practice and try different soldering iron bits.  I found the 25W Weller too hot, but I could try putting the pointed bit back in.  The 15W Antex (out of the ark) required too much time and melted the sleepers a bit.  Another possibility might be to slide the rails along so that there is a short length away from the sleepers and solder there, hoping to slide the rails back again afterwards.  I'll just have to experiment and practise until I can get it right.

The only alternative is to use Peco power feed joiners, but that still leaves me the frogs to connect.  Fortunately I will have plenty of spare track if I buy the additional wooden sleeper track, so I think I will persevere for a while and see if I can crack it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on November 05, 2016, 08:15:45 am
Morning Lawrence.

I use an Antex 25W with a pointed tip.

I too was much out of practice so tried various methods before I got a satisfactory result. I solder droppers to the underside of the rail.

My current 'technique'  is to mount the track upside down on a bit of 2x1 wooden batten - tie it down however suits you and as a heat sink, use some damp kitchen roll each side of the dropper position. I found this reduces the risk of damaging the sleepers.

Not, I'm sure, how a pro would do it but it works for me!

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 05, 2016, 06:20:07 pm
I've had quite a busy day today, mainly practising soldering connectors onto the track.  I decided to sacrifice one section of track so that I could try several techniques.  I tried two different soldering irons, with different bits, soldering onto the outside of the rails and underneath.  In the end, I decided that the best technique was to completely remove one sleeper and solder to the bottom of the rails where it had been.  The idea is to save the sleeper and, after the track has been permanently laid, replace the exposed bits of the sleeper by gluing them into place.  However, I may still go for the Peco power feed joiners, which would be a lot less trouble.

I managed to program two more locos today, the 5700 and the B17.  The hand rails and brake pipes are incredibly tiny and easily detached.  I seem to have lost the rear brake pipe of the 5700.  I hope I can find it again in due course.  I had to have several attempts at programming the 5700.  Each time I test it, it was still responding to Loco address 3, with no delays and too much speed. In addition, it was temperamental in responding to the controller.  I think there must have been poor contact, so I cleaned the drivers.  Also, it responded to lubrication, so it may have been in the box a long time.  But in the end, it ran OK, although not before I had checked my systems by programming the B17.

I have now assembled three mini trains, each on a section of track.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-051116175252.jpeg)

The far one is the Express Passenger hauled by a Hall (excuse the pun), the middle one the local goods with the 5700 and the near one an intermediate passenger hauled by the B17.  I'll keep soldiering on until the baseboards arrive.  I need to program all the locos and two are on back order, yet to arrive.  There are plenty of other things to be done, including assembling the Ratio platforms, which I will need to ensure the correct line spacing in the station.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 05, 2016, 08:52:07 pm
The only problem with soldering to the bottom of the rail is that, should a feed come adrift at a later date when the track is stuck down and, worse, ballasted, it's more of a pain to remedy than if soldered to the side of the rail.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on November 05, 2016, 10:28:29 pm
I've had a couple of 'dry joints' but I decided some time back that ballasting would be almost the last job to be done so that I could repair any problem (a bit) easier.

I would solder to the outside edge if that was the only solution but so far I've been able to avoid that option.  :sweat:

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on November 05, 2016, 10:45:30 pm
Yeah, all my feeds etc. are soldered to the side of the rail. To be honest, when I began my ancient layout I'd never heard of, or even thought about soldering to the underside.

If you make a neat join and the track sides are painted rust colour, they hardly become noticeable. Actually, with my own layout being so old, restoring it is a major undertaking. I'm actually glad I soldered to the sides of the rail, because I can see where feeds and sections are which have long since been forgotten!

Great trio of trains you've got there, by the way, Laurence.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 06, 2016, 02:01:04 pm
The Four Railway Engines
(with apologies to the Rev W Audrey)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-061116135016.jpeg)

There's no sign of Thomas, Gordon or James, but the B17 might just be Henry.  Thank goodness there will be no tunnels on the layout.  The latest addition is 92006 with some of the vans typical of trains traveling on the ex-GCR which might have spread out in the Woodford Halse area and found their way to Morton Hinmarch.

I've decided to go for the Peco power feed joiners as the simplest power connection option to the rails.  If necessary, I can think about soldering onto the sides of the rails at some future date if the Peco solution turns out to be a bad decision.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 06, 2016, 02:17:02 pm

I've decided to go for the Peco power feed joiners as the simplest power connection option to the rails.  If necessary, I can think about soldering onto the sides of the rails at some future date if the Peco solution turns out to be a bad decision.

I have used similar items from Modellers Mecca before Peco did theirs and have had no issues but I think some purists may scoff :uneasy:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on November 06, 2016, 02:46:13 pm
I'm DC but have used the Peco rail joiners. So easy and reliable.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 07, 2016, 09:34:56 am
It took my landlord (an experienced electrician and electrical engineer) a while to get the hang of soldering the droppers to the rails. He ruined one section of plastic sleepers but the piece was easily replaced. We discovered that cutting away sleepers near where the soldering was to take place and / or moving the sleepers away from the area prevented sleepers getting melted. I did have plenty of Peco substitute sleepers but had trouble getting them to stay at the right height under the rails and had to part cover them with excess ballast.

That's a nice selection of trains, Lawrence. The WR had some BR standard 2-10-0s shedded in S. Wales for coal trains and they may have worked through your area?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 07, 2016, 11:42:24 am
Try big crocodile clips - big battery types as heat shunts on either side of the joint.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3761-071116114154.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=45247)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 07, 2016, 12:07:03 pm
The 2-6-4T arrives

The 2-6-4 Tank has arrived with the first local train, a rake of suburban coaches.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-061116212314.jpeg)

You will notice that the first van behind the pannier tank has apparently been derailed especially for the photograph.  It has since been righted.

The 2-6-4T was the first Farish Loco to be unpacked.  Fortunately, I had to fit a chip in the 9F, so this was the second chip I fitted.  But, what a fiddle!  The three screws holding the body onto the chassis are absolutely tiny.  Even with my reading specs on, it was a difficult job.  Getting them out wasn't too bad, but getting them back in again was an absolute nightmare.  Even holding them with tweezers was a problem.  Twice I had a screw shoot out of the grip of the tweezers onto the floor and each time I had to scrabble about on hands and knees looking for them.  But it's all done now.  Programming the little beast also proved problematic.  I had to increase the acceleration and deceleration delays using 28 speed steps.  I tried 128 speed steps, but it was not much better.  I will have to wait until the layout is built and I do a proper commissioning job.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daffy on November 07, 2016, 01:53:08 pm
Nice little collection Laurence. :thumbsup:

There's a lot to be said for working with small parts inside a plastic bag.

Not you, just the item, of course. ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 07, 2016, 05:08:25 pm
Nice little collection Laurence. :thumbsup:

There's a lot to be said for working with small parts inside a plastic bag.

Not you, just the item, of course. ;)
Thank goodness for that!  I thought I might have to suffocate.  I'm now working over a plastic tray to collect any droppings.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 07, 2016, 08:17:58 pm
Nice little collection Laurence. :thumbsup:

There's a lot to be said for working with small parts inside a plastic bag.

Not you, just the item, of course. ;)
I'm now working over a plastic tray to collect any droppings.

I'm sure the doctor can prescribe you something to stop that, Laurence :laugh:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 07, 2016, 09:22:39 pm
I now have 7 locos up and running.  I have assembled a sample train behind each.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-071116210557.jpeg)

The Manor is in BR lined black, not untypical of the period, with a rake of rhubarb and custard.  The jubilee is beside it.  I would have had a Stanier Class 5, but I could not program it.  When I checked it on DC there was no supply to the pick-ups inside the tender.  I think the pick-ups are faulty, so I will have to send it back to Hattons.  I have also shown a picture of the Gaugemaster DCC02 controller. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-071116210736.jpeg)

You can see that I have incorporated a DPDT rocker switch to switch the test track between the Main Track output and the Program Track output.  I had originally intended to build this into the layout, but I should have all the locos programmed before the layout is complete, so it may not be needed.  Once the loco IDs have been selected, Program on Main seems to work perfectly well.  However, I may need it if I increase the fleet in the future.  The idea is to have the tail shunt to the milk depot as the Program track, but make it switchable, as above, so that I can give any new loco a unique ID before switching to Main to release it onto the layout.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 08, 2016, 08:08:51 pm
Two more locos running

I have commissioned two more Dapol locos.  The first was a 38XX with a train of mineral wagons.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-081116194123.jpeg)

The second was the Grange intermediate passenger with a rake of chocolate and cream coaches, including three SKs that arrived in the post today, courtesy of Newport Nobby.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-081116194244.jpeg)

I have just one loco left to commission, the 64XX branch line engine.  The two on back order are the 2-6-0 milk train loco and the prairie suburban passenger.  All three are Farish, which are much more difficult to commission that the Dapol ones.  The Stanier Class 5 (also Farish) will have to go back because it wont pick up from the track.  It's a shame because, 30 years ago when I first modelled N-gauge, one of the first locos I acquired was a Class 5, so I am a little attached to the model.

Once I have finished commissioning all the locos, I will need to commission the Digikeijs decoders for the points.  Hopefully, the baseboards will appear soon so that I can get started on the layout proper. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: ptopo on November 08, 2016, 09:30:02 pm
Goodness - it must be frustrating having all those trains sitting there raring to go! I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the progress.

With respect to droppers, underside has always worked for me and have made some refinements - this is now my approach...

kit
- fine point soldering iron tip. It's probably teaching nan to suck eggs but the tip needs to be perfectly matched to the power of the iron so the heat transfer is rapid enough
- fine solder, the finer the better. DCC concepts amongst others sell a good one that's less than 0.5mm sq. in cross sectional area
- helping hands stand/clamps - one holds the track and acts as a heat sink, the other the dropper wire

Tips
- I co-heat the wire and rail then add a teeny bit of solder to th tip of the iron. This then goes onto the wire first and, as the temp of the rail comes up, flows onto the rail. After a few seconds cooling a firm pull on the dropper tells you if the join is good. As others have said one wants the join to be super solid so it does not detach in situ.
- some folks pre-tin the wire and simply place on the rail and apply heat, this doesn't work so well for me, might be the heat doesn't come up quickly enough, dunno. Another approach is to use solder paste and i think that might work best of all...

Sorry if all this is obvious...

Cheers & good luck

PT

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 09, 2016, 11:31:41 am
The Branch Line Train

I have finally tested the branch line loco, the last of those that I still have (working).  It's a 64XX, but won't be operated as a push pull. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-091116110510.jpeg)

It's not fully commissioned yet because I hadn't read the small print that said I needed a right angle DCC chip.  But I've tested it with a standard chip, minus the cab of course.  The Class 5 was marked as only three remaining at Hattons so I have ordered one of them and agreed with Hattons that I will be refunded for the faulty one when I return it.

Thanks to everyone for the advice about soldering droppers to the rails.  Although I have ordered the Peco connectors, I will persevere with the soldering and see how I get on.  I do have a concern about soldering to every rail if the rails are not insulated from each other.  Because the DCC signal consists of a relatively high frequency signal (about 10kHz) for the control, there is the danger of oscillating current loops, a phenomenon that has been known to destroy chips.  Does anyone have any experience with droppers and DCC?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on November 09, 2016, 12:05:28 pm
I have a powercab based system, I have a smart booster an 4 circuit breakers to split the layout up and it works well. When I first started I could not get things to work my soldering skills needed improving, I did at first solder the drop wires under the rails. I found using a liquid clean flux and dcc concepts sapphire solder it us easier to solder to the side of the rail. I tin the rail and the wire first, I drill a small hole next to the joint and then poke the tinned wire up from below and just place it against the rail and touch it with the iron. Once ballasted you hardly know it's there but it is easy to repair if required, you do need a steady hand of course. My soldering station has variable heat control I think that is what enables just the touch required plus it has extra power for soldering to my bus  cables for which I have used 3 core mains with the earth removed.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: pctrainman on November 09, 2016, 12:30:16 pm
Like Chris I have used solid core mains cable for the DCC bus and twisted it as it apparently helps reduce crosstalk or summat like that between the wires , I soldered to rail bottoms using a 40 watt iron with a fine tip and used a non residue liquid flux designed for electronics and have had no problems at all , I use Railcom so the layout is divided into zones by the use of insulated joiners on the inner rails .
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 09, 2016, 06:17:02 pm
Thank you both for the advice about using droppers with DCC.  I don't envisage any problems with the bus wires because I'm using bare tinned copper wire (TCW) running the length of each baseboard, with a spacing of 8 - 10 inches between them.  The bus wires are connected between boards by colour coded plugs and sockets.  I will try using droppers without insulation between rails in a progressive manner, so that I can monitor any problems before they become serious.  An oscilloscope would be useful in this respect, but I don't have one and, indeed, it may be a bit over the top.  In the final analysis, I could invest in sufficient insulated rail joiners to ensure that each rail length is isolated so that there can be no circulation currents.  However, I hope it won't come to that.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on November 10, 2016, 12:34:41 am
I think you are worrying about the dcc signal too much, like I said in my last post I have split my layout into 4 sections using PSX circuit breakers. I have my fiddle yard board, I have my station board where I have 2 sections the up line and goods yard and the down line, the rest of the layout is on the 4th breaker. There are two crossovers between the up and down lines on the station both with insulated joiners but you would have those on dc running. The only other insul joiners are on the live frog rails  on the points, my layout is semi modular so the are breaks between each board separating each section. I have droppers on every piece of track connected to the bus which runs underneath, I have left the insulation on the cables apart from where the droppers are soldered to it but I stagger the joins to avoid problems. Because my layout is modular I have leads with bananna plugs to connect each board. Here are a few pics 1st is some track with side soldered rail droppers you can see two arrows pointing to the droppers, to the left is were the track is soldered to screws on the board end,it is covered by a bridge, that was my first attempt I got better honest. 2nd a pic of the drop wires to the bus and the last pic of the bananna plugs.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/1784-060616235121.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/1784-060616234033.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/3/main_38008.jpg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 10, 2016, 07:32:33 am
Thanks for the advice and the excellent pictures, Chris.  I can't show you any pics of my own yet because I am still waiting on the baseboards.  Hopefully there will be some news by the end of the week.  When I go back down to the train shed, I'll try and take a couple of pics of my trial efforts.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 10, 2016, 08:58:09 am
Here are some pics of my test efforts.  The first is the busbar arrangement. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-101116084359.jpeg)

The busbars will run from one of a baseboard to the other passing through holes in the cross members, one busbar per hole.  The solder tags will actually be fixed to the end members rather than to the bottom of the boards, as suggested here.  Between boards, I will be using these connectors:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-101116084616.jpeg)

My first attempts at droppers were not actually droppers at all.  I was using this piece of track for experimental soldering and decided to use it as a test track to check all the new locos and perform the initial programming of the DCC chips.  So here the "droppers" are just connections to the programming changeover switch, soldered to the bottom of the rails.  I will practice making side connections while I wait for the baseboards to arrive.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-101116084655.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: pctrainman on November 10, 2016, 02:15:45 pm
I must admit that I do have some reservations about your use of uninsulated wire not because of the small voltages involved but because of considerations such as this                                                                                                            "A well-engineered cable is comprised of many crucial independent elements. Recently shielding has become just as critical as any other design element. The growing complexity of todayís communications and control systems, coupled with the increased distances signal and control communications are required to travel, have exponentially increased electrical interference (noise) related failures. Depending on the application, cables can be adversely affected by EMI/RFI/ESI (electromagnetic interference, radio frequency interference, electrostatic interference) also known as Ďsignal interference.í To combat the effects of signal interference proper shielding is vital.

According to industry technical data there are essentially four sources of signal interference.

Static Noise: Occurs when an electrical field distorts the signal and can be mitigated using continuous foil shields which offer 100% shielding efficiency and appropriate grounding techniques.

Magnetic Noise: Comes from large AC motors, transformers, and knife switches, and can set up current flows in opposition to the instrument. The simplest and best means of eliminating magnetic noise is through the use of twisted pair signal wiring.

Common Mode Noise: Results from current flowing between different potential grounds located at various points within a system. Solving this issue requires a carefully engineered and properly installed power and grounding system.

Crosstalk: Refers to the super imposing of the pulsed DC or standard AC signals between two or more nearby wires or cables. The most effective means of mitigation is individually shielded twisted pairs. "
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 10, 2016, 07:08:12 pm
Thanks for the reply about bare conductors.  Fortunately, I spent about half my working life working in electronics so I have reason to be confident about my proposed methods.  The issue about screening applies mainly to signal frequencies greater than about 10 MHz, in which case, the cables would need to be screened cables, the ideal being co-ax.  However, the DCC signals are in the mid-audio frequency (AF) range and should be immune from such effects.  The big issue at such frequencies is common mode noise, which is the concern I made about isolating each track supply.  Strictly speaking, a bus system is off limits: each supply should be taken directly from a common point.  However, it is clear from other people's experience of DCC that it does not seem to be an issue and bus systems are widely used.  If the busbars are very close together it may be wise to twist them together, but this is usually only required for signals in the mA or uA region.  In my case there will be at least 8 inches separation between the bus wires, so I don't expect any problems.  However, thank you for you post, which is much appreciated.

At last the replacement Class 5 has arrived and I have tested it, fitted the chip and programmed it.  I found that I didn't need to remove the tender body.  By removing the coal, you can use a small pair of angle-nosed pliers to remove the blanking board and the chip can be inserted by hand, with a final push with the pliers to ensure it is securely located.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-101116174354.jpeg)

I had a go with side droppers today.  I cut the track runner near the end, opposite an existing gap and slid the sleepers away from the soldering site.  I clamped the rail in the jaws of my 30 year old workmate.  I then tinned the sides of the rails and the ends of the wires, having first bent each into a right angle about 3 mm from the end.  The iron was applied to the end of the wire and the rail as I held them together by hand.  I then slid the sleepers back into position.  You can see the results here.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-101116174531.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-101116175451.jpeg)

Of course, I need a bit more practice to get back into the swing of things and make a really neat job of it.  I found the 25W Weller iron that I bought recently to be unsatisfactory, although back in my electronics days, I always used a Weller. So, reading what others had written, I invested in a 25W Antex and I must say the difference was astounding.  My little 15W Antex was hardly man enough for the job, but this was exactly what I wanted.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on November 10, 2016, 08:47:25 pm
Something that you might find handy Laurence is one of these,they are only £5. I have modded mine by adding a couple of wires to make it more flexible in use. They are very good for checking the frog polarity is correct on points after you have wired them and that current is getting to each piece of track.http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=TTTT1&style=&strType=&Mcode=Train+Tech+TT1 (http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=TTTT1&style=&strType=&Mcode=Train+Tech+TT1)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 10, 2016, 08:54:23 pm
This is one of two layouts where I want to see trains running probably more than the builders!
This is the other..........
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30692.msg409947#msg409947 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30692.msg409947#msg409947)
@Milton Rail (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4934)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 10, 2016, 09:14:21 pm
Thanks Chris.  I've ordered one.  I plan to connect the frogs via the C/O switch on the PM1 point motors.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Croxy on November 10, 2016, 09:25:55 pm
I bought a variable wattage soldering iron which seems to do the trick nicely as you can dial in the "sweet spot" for various jobs.....while I understand why you aren't concerned about you bus wires due to their separation, I'm just curious as to why you would opt for bare wires over insulated ones. I used insulated ones and then used self tapping connectors which worked very well......

Just curious...I suppose it makes it easy to solder any connecting wires without having to worry about stripping out a small section of insulation........thanks, Mark.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on November 10, 2016, 10:58:51 pm
This is one of two layouts where I want to see trains running probably more than the builders!
This is the other..........
[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30692.msg409947#msg409947[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30692.msg409947#msg409947[/url])
@Milton Rail ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4934[/url])


On that front..... I have wired up 50% of power district one, which is tullibardine & Muthill, and it worked (dirty track in the tunnel aside) on DC, not plugged in DCC yet.... but I am getting a short when I throw the passing loop point at tullIbardine, it all stops.... not sure if it's a quirk of DC or a track fault... will explore it more in my thread!  I think i will need some help, but progress has slowed now that trains are running!..... I am sure someone keeps saying that  :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 11, 2016, 06:42:30 am
The original concept of a busbar comes from power distribution boards where there is a solid copper conductor running the length of the board so that outputs can be tapped into it at any point along its length.  I have simply miniaturised the concept.  Because I am wiring up the base board frames before I fix the top boards and lay the track, it makes sense (to me at least) to allow for a tap in to the bus at any point as yet unknown.  The idea of wiring up the frames first means that I can work from the top in situ, rather than either scambling underneath or up-ending the boards.

Incidentally, the power bus to the Digikeijs decoders for the point motors will simply be twin flex power cable because it is pure DC and will connect to known positions located at the end of the boards.  Each decoder will be located next to the end solder tags and I will connect the feeds to each decoder directly to the solder tags.

The short when switching points sounds like a lack of insulation between the frog of a live frog point and the continuation rail.  Of course there may be other causes, but I would have it down as favourite.  I hope this helps.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on November 11, 2016, 07:28:29 am
While I'm a DC Dino, early on I ran a bare copper lighting bus the full length of my branchline, so I could plonk a building anywhere and light it up from the bus.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 11, 2016, 07:06:43 pm
Programming the Digikeijs

I've finished programming all the locos that I have (apart from the 64XX, which is awaiting a special chip).  The other two, an Ivatt mogul and a BR prairie, may not arrive before March.  So I have set about programming the Digikeijs accessory controllers for switching the points.  It proved much easier than I had feared.  First I used the test rack I had used for programming the locos and took a feed from each rail to the Digikeijs power input, looped to the signal input.  I then took a Seep PM1 and connected three feeds which I connected to the Digikeijs Output 1. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-111116154713.jpeg)

The picture shows it connected to Output 2, but that was after I had checked Output 1.  I then turned on the DCC02 controller and Selected Accessory 1.  By selecting "1" and "2" I was able to switch the PM1 back and forth, confirming that the Digikeijs was working.  I then moved the PM1 connections to Output 2 to check that Accessory 2 would operate the PM1, which it did.  I then switched the DCC02 to Program on Program track.  I set it up for CV 513 and pressed the Program button on the Digikeijs.  I entered the CV513 data as 9 and held the Digikeijs program button down until the red LED went out.  I then selected Accessory 10 and, by selecting "1" and "2", verified that Output 2 was now selected as Accessory 10. I labelled this Digikeijs "09", indicating it would control Points 9 through 16.

I then disconnected Digikeijs 09 and connected a fresh one.  I checked that Accessory 2 operated the PM1 when connected to Output 2.  I labelled this Digikeijs "01", indcating it would control Points 1 through 8.  I now have to program the rest of the Digikeijs and then I can set up the routes once the track is laid.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on November 11, 2016, 11:07:32 pm
Well done that man, something you need to watch using seeps. Is when you connect them to the points look at the advice on this site, you need to set the seeps up carefully to operate the switch for frog use. I tried to use Peco motors on my layout with switches but I gave up has they were not reliable in use. I now use Cobalt motors on my scenic sections, I have used the peco motors on my fiddle yard with insulfrog points but they are controlled by switches on a control panel. I might get round to buying some decoders for them in the future.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 12, 2016, 06:42:14 am
Thanks Chris

I have checked the change over action of the switches with a meter and they are OK.  The only thing is to ensure that the correct polarity is connected on both LH and RH points.  I guess I'll have to come up with a rule for that.  Incidentally, the sheet I will be using ( I think it's attached - see pages 5 and 6) indicates that the Seep motor should operate on the center of the switch blade connector, but that must be for OO.  The N gauge points need it located at one or other end, so I will have to redesign the template to allow for that.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: ptopo on November 12, 2016, 09:08:34 am
Quick on on seeps - they are generally fine but you need to use a system where you can make fine adjustments late on.

To this end my approach is to...

- roughly locate the motor to check clearance etc and trim the rod.
- Rather than fix with screws it's much better to use a slow drying adhesive (no more nails or cheaper generic). This allows you to make fine adjustments until the washer is making good contact in open and thrown positions.
- Once lined up right it can be kept in place by electrical tape at both ends. I usually leave the tape on permanently afterwards (motivation to keep it neat....)

Cheers

PT
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on November 12, 2016, 09:10:18 am
There is only a small movement of the point with n-gauge. I am certain you need to centralise the switch to get it go work both ways. Mick (newportnobby)  of this parish knows about it. I think he has his mounted loosely to allow movement of the motor.. if you have a meter it is easy to check the polarity of the switch, connect your two feed wires to the switch then check the common connection with the meter as you move the switch.you than need to translate that to the frog wires.  If your not sure let me know and I will do a diagram on my computer for you.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 12, 2016, 12:15:33 pm
With N gauge points the Seep throw rod fits the hole at the end of the tie bar which, as there are 2 holes, allows a choice of placement when several points are crowded together. Before permanently fixing the motor under the board the throw rod should be centralised (there's a trick with a clothes peg for doing that) and the switch blades should also be centralised (put a small length of wire between each side to centre them). A good practice advised by forum members is to mount the Seep about 20mm below the point level so as to maximise the throw and this is what I will be doing. I have purchased some 12mm stripwood, my sundeala is 9mm and the rubber underlay is 1Ĺmm.
There is some great info here, along with the clothes peg trick (believe me - it works a treat!).....
http://www.cravenmodels.com/SEEP.htm (http://www.cravenmodels.com/SEEP.htm)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 12, 2016, 01:09:05 pm
I have finished programming all the Digikeijs accessory decoders.  There was a bit of an extended blip this morning.  The first one I tried to program repeatedly failed to program, except to address "1" and even that was erratic.  After quite a bit of frustration, I spotted that the DCC02 controller was switched to "All Walkrounds" instead of 1 - 8.  I quickly rectified this and the problem was overcome.  The description in the Digikeijs  instruction manual was not as helpful as it could have been.  Apparently, once the decoder has accepted the code, the LED goes out.  Then, when you switch back main track, it comes on again.  If you select the address it doesn't go out immediately, but only when it receives confirmation of the address.  This can take a few seconds (or in the case of all walkarouds, several minutes)

Thanks for the info about Seep points.  I actually found the post by Newport Nobby elsewhere in the forum and downloaded the relevant images.  I have attached them as a PDF.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 12, 2016, 01:16:16 pm
There's a huge amount more info on that Craven Models link, Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 12, 2016, 01:29:56 pm
Cheers Mick. 

Yes, that's where the diagrams came from.  I selected them because they are the two most relevant for positioning the point motors.  It's difficult to download from that site because none of the background files download when you download the page.  The only way I could do it was to save the images as JPGs.  I have printed out the two JPGs in the PDF as working documents for installing my point motors, in conjunction the the Buffers pages on creating a template.  The template has to be modified for N-gauge. I attached the buffers page to an earlier post today.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 13, 2016, 08:58:19 am
The right angled decoder arrived yesterday afternoon and I've managed to fit it and program it after a fashion.  It was difficult to fit because the board is longer than the available cab space in front of it, so it was a question of poking the end of the chip under the boiler and trying to fit the pins into the socket.  It took quite a bit of fiddling but I managed it in the end.  The programming appears to be a bit wonky,  I don't seem to be able to decrease the acceleration rate.  But at least its all together and I managed to get the screws back into the bottom of the cab.

So now all the locos are programmed, at least all that have arrived - the others may not arrive until March.  Also, all the accessory decoders are also programmed, so next will be packing all the trains away, back into their boxes again ready for the delivery of the first baseboards.  I'm told they will be ready for dispatch early next week.  Once the baseboards are assembled, I will be able to start wiring them.  I'll post more pictures once they materialise.

I have managed to track down a nice background sounds CD at Steamsounds (http://www.steamsounds.org.uk/cd/index.html (http://www.steamsounds.org.uk/cd/index.html)).  It certainly brings back memories and should make the Train Shed sound like a blast from the past (literally!).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 19, 2016, 09:59:33 pm
At last, the first batch of baseboards have been delivered, except they haven't.  Unfortunately, the carrier delivered them on Wednesday, while I was away for three days.  Strangely, the driver left the package with the 4' X 2'6'' board in the potting shed, following the instructions on the front door.  However, he took the other package back to the depot.  The next attempt to deliver the second package was on Friday, before I arrived home.  Again, it was returned to the depot.  The first package was marked as signed for by a fictitious neighbour, so it all seems a bit strange.  The sad thing is that the first package contains all the braced legs but I cannot make start because there are no nuts, bolts, screws etc.  So I have unpacked it all and checked the contents, but until the second one is actually delivered, I am stuck.  I have been in touch with the carrier and it is promised for Monday morning early.  But I have to go out later so, if it doesn't arrive before I go, I might still be in the same position next week.  It's all a bit disappointing  :(
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on November 19, 2016, 10:10:34 pm
"Marked as signed by a fictitious neighbour?"

Exactly what happened to my old passport which was returned from the UK in January.  It's now November and I've come to accept I'm never going to see it again. At least I was home when my new one arrived!

Good luck with the baseboard!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on November 19, 2016, 10:42:37 pm
 :hellosign:  Fingers crossed for you Laurence.
   regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 20, 2016, 09:32:31 am
That's got to be most frustrating, Laurence.
If Yodel are involved anywhere have you checked your roof?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 20, 2016, 09:51:34 am
I also hope that you get your baseboards soon, Laurence.

'Lying' carriers is, alas, a common problem. I have been waiting several months for some Peco LWB wagon kits from one eBay commercial seller. There were two packages in the SAME (alleged) delivery. The carrier reported the first package delivered and signed for (but was unable to produce any evidence of this -- hardly surprising as I never received them nor did anyone else) whilst reporting that the second package was undelivered because there was no-one home. (As this carrier has NEVER used my mobile number to arrange delivery this is hardly surprising.) Seemingly endless email correspondence with eBay has yet to produce a satisfactory conclusion . . . I hope you won't have anything like the same wait as I'm really looking forward to seeing your tracklaying which I'm sure will be exemplary compared with some of my efforts.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on November 20, 2016, 10:40:24 am
Yes check your bin too,someone round here had a parcel delivered on bin day and they put the parcel in the bin, the mind boggles. My bin is round the back so I am safe in that respect, although I once had a parcel of mine delivered to a front garden on another road,luck the home owner was honest.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 20, 2016, 01:59:52 pm
Thanks for everyone's comments.  These are really BIG parcels.  The one that was left was 4' X 2'6'' and the one that driver took back to the depot (twice) was 6' X 2'6''.  They weigh a lot of Kgs, so transporting them back and forward seems a bit extreme.  The carrier is TNT, who usually deliver to trade addresses and don't seem to be set up for domestic deliveries.  No phone, Email nor text and no cards to leave.  I guess the reason for using TNT was because of the size and weight.  I usually play table tennis on Monday morning, but we played today, just in case the delivery doesn't arrive before 09:00 tomorrow.  If it does we can always play again tomorrow.

I would have liked to be able to post some pictures of the baseboards by now, but I have taken three anyway.  About two weeks ago, I put up the blinds in the train shed.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-201116130623.jpeg)

The colour was chosen to match the sky of the back scenes, when I get round to creating them.  The blinds cover the door and the two large windows.  At this time of year, I pull them down at night to help retain the heat.  The thermostatic radiator has a time clock so I can run it on cheap overnight electricity to prevent the shed from becoming too cold.  It is able to keep the temperature above 8 degrees C, but that is usually during the day when I'm unable to go there.  At night it keeps the temperature up into the low teens.

The braced leg kits seem to be pretty good.  I have laid one out:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-201116130341.jpeg)

Also, the baseboard kits are first class.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-201116130437.jpeg)

The holes in the cross members will allow me to run the busbar wires through them and keep the uninsulated ones well apart.  The Digikeijs decoders will be located on the inside of the end members.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on November 20, 2016, 02:04:28 pm
We have packages left anywhere by carriers.
Luckily, we are in a very trustworthy area. And Ive had nothing lost even if its left on the doorstep.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 22, 2016, 06:45:00 pm
Finally

The other package arrived this afternoon.  I chased it all day yesterday, but they don't seem to have a tracking system that the depot staff can access.  In the end, I gave them a description (6' X2'6'' wrapped in black plastic, weighing about 25kg) and they eventually found it in a bay for lost parcels, in a damaged condition.  It arrived bound up with tape sporting the words "Resealed by TNT".  Fortunately, everything was still inside the package in good condition.  I had to re-chase today and, after several phone calls, they gave me a delivery slot of between 13:00 and 15:00.

I have unpacked and checked the package.  Everything seems to be there and I have moved it all into the train shed.  Hopefully I can start posting more pictures tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 23, 2016, 08:53:29 am
The first baseboard is nearing completion.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-231116084642.jpeg)

Once the final end is in place I will glue triangular supports to the corners and cross-overs to keep it all square.  Then I will add two sets of braced legs, one at each end.  The second baseboard will be identical.  The third will be suspended between them and the three will run along the back wall of the train shed.  This will form the station side of the layout and I will be able to wire them up before positioning the points ready for track laying.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: TylerB on November 23, 2016, 09:34:59 am
Nice looking baseboards! Mind if I ask who makes them? (you may have already mentioned this somewhere on the thread, if so I apologise)

There was a period a little while back when you would always find at least one baseboard manufacturer at Model Rail shows, but then, just as I was about to buy one, they all disappeared, and I haven't seen one since!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 23, 2016, 10:03:38 am
Excellent to see progress with the baseboards, Laurence. I look forward to seeing tracklaying and wiring in due course.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: snail on November 23, 2016, 11:18:34 am
Nice looking baseboards! Mind if I ask who makes them? (you may have already mentioned this somewhere on the thread, if so I apologise)

There was a period a little while back when you would always find at least one baseboard manufacturer at Model Rail shows, but then, just as I was about to buy one, they all disappeared, and I haven't seen one since!



TylerB, I found White Rose Modelworks made baseboards (not bought anything or affiliated with the business) I found them on a trip up to Bedale back in summer, they seem to make them to any size/shape you require.
One thing I don't understand with them, they offer to stick on neoprene on the top and 36mm High-Density Fire Retardant Polystyrene underneath, I'm not exactly sure why. Would anyone else know?

http://www.whiterosemodelworks.co.uk/products/baseboards/ (http://www.whiterosemodelworks.co.uk/products/baseboards/)

Link for ease of searching

Dale
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 23, 2016, 11:31:03 am
Nice looking baseboards! Mind if I ask who makes them? (you may have already mentioned this somewhere on the thread, if so I apologise)

They are supplied by Model Railway Solutions https://www.modelrailwaysolutions.co.uk/shop/. (https://www.modelrailwaysolutions.co.uk/shop/.)  Martin is a very obliging chap and they make a whole range of modular systems.  You can make up practically any layout with the modules.  I have used the advanced ply range rather than the premium birch, which are somewhat more expensive.  The ply ones are fine.  Martin does go to some exhibitions, but I don't know which ones.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 23, 2016, 03:52:25 pm
First Board Complete

I have completed the assembly of the first board and here it is in its final position, complete with top, although the top hasn't yet been screwed down.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-231116154704.jpeg)

And here it is again with the top removed, ready for wiring.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-231116154803.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daffy on November 23, 2016, 03:59:06 pm
First Board Complete

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-231116154704.jpeg[/url])


Er.... make sure the patient is fully sedated before you place them on the 'Operating Time table'! :goggleeyes:


Looks really good though. :thumbsup:

 :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 23, 2016, 04:10:18 pm
Could just be the camera angle but does the depth of the baseboard render the window latch above it redundant, Laurence?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on November 23, 2016, 05:55:54 pm
Could just be the camera angle but does the depth of the baseboard render the window latch above it redundant, Laurence?

NPN - AKA Hawkeye!  ;D

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 23, 2016, 06:14:37 pm
Could just be the camera angle but does the depth of the baseboard render the window latch above it redundant, Laurence?
The width of the baseboards along that side is 2'6''.  I can comfortably reach across it to operate the window.  I wanted as wide a side as possible to allow for the station buildings and scenery, but I deliberately designed it so that I would be able to reach across to the back for scenic work.  However, my wife will need a dais to stand on when she helps with the scenery. 

By the way Dave, excuse my ignorance, but what does NPN stand for, apart from a bi-polar transistor?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 23, 2016, 09:05:23 pm

By the way Dave, excuse my ignorance, but what does NPN stand for, apart from a bi-polar transistor?

NPN = No Practical Nolledge :-[
Actually it's just an abbreviation some use for Newportnobby :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 24, 2016, 07:51:04 pm
All three boards in the original shipment have now been assembled and connected together.  The first picture is of them all with their tops on to check the alignment and make sure that there will be no gaps between them.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-241116191550.jpeg)

The second is with the tops removed ready for wiring.  Everything went like clockwork until the very end.  I was expecting a visitor and I made a mistake with the final piece of the centre board that connects the two supported by legs.  Before I assembled it, I clamped each end in turn to the end of the neighbouring board and drilled through to fit the positioning dowels and connecting bolts.  Every part of each frame is marked with a cross at one end, with the idea that all the crosses should be at the same end of the board.  I carefully positioned the cross of both ends to be at the front (nearest me) and marked them L and R.  But when I assembled it, I put the last piece in the wrong way round.  After my visitor had left, we had to go out on an errand.  When we returned I found that the right hand end would not mate with the adjoining board.  On inspection, I had inserted it into the assembly the wrong way round.  Oh dear!   Fortunately, although the glue had set, it was still sufficiently weak for me to knock out the panel pins, having first removed the screws at the end.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-241116191640.jpeg)

Under the centre board you can see a 25-year old Ikea unit.  At the moment it is covered with various bits and pieces.  But its final function will be to house the DCC02 controller and the power supply for the power bus.

I had another setback while assembling the right hand board's braced leg set.  The battery on my cordless drill ran out and I swapped to the other and put the battery on charge.  However, it would not recharge.  I tried several ploys to get it to charge, all without success.  I investigated buying a new battery, but it was more expensive than buying a new drill, so I have ordered one from Screwfix and will pick it up in the morning.

When everything was in order, I began wiring the DCC bus.  The next picture shows the bus wires running up the centre of the right hand board.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-241116191804.jpeg)

Finally, the last picture shows a closeup of the solder tags and connecting plugs that will connect the bus from one board to the next.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-241116191853.jpeg)

I will complete the DCC bus for all three boards and then install the power bus for the Digikeijs decoders for the point motors.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on November 24, 2016, 08:25:15 pm
That's looking good, Laurence.
When do you think the inaugural playtest of track and locos will occur? :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 24, 2016, 08:46:34 pm
That's looking good, Laurence.
When do you think the inaugural playtest of track and locos will occur? :D

It's difficult to predict at the moment.  Obviously nothing will happen until all the boards are delivered.  That should be well before Christmas, but I will need to complete all the wiring and fix the Digikeijs in place before anything else happens.  I can do this on a board by board basis, so there will not be too much to do when the last boards arrive.  This is not time consuming, but then I will have to position all the points and install the point motors.  That will take a little longer.  After that, I will have to lay all the cork underlay and check platform clearances etc.  The really time consuming bit will be the Up- and Down-storage loops.  I have planned for all the points to avoid the frame cross members, but the execution may involve a little "fiddling".  When I have done all that, I should be able to lay the track and then we will be in business.  My guess is that I might be running a timetable by March, with a following wind.

Remember, I have preliminarily programmed all the locos that have arrived, so it will be simply a case of calibrating the DCC settings for each train under full load.  I plan to do that by running each around the complete circuit, timing them and then checking the acceleration and deceleration to achieve a satisfactory result.  I hope that doesn't sound too gloomy, but I would sooner make a realistic prediction than be disappointed later.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on November 24, 2016, 11:10:26 pm
Well done Laurence looking good there, take your time do not be tempted to rush especally the wiring. My first attempt at dcc did not work.....I had to learn to solder again.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 25, 2016, 08:00:04 pm
I've finished wiring the right hand station board

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-251116195004.jpeg)

The point motors are not yet connected, because I need to install the points first.  That won't take place until I have finished all the station boards.  At the moment, the connections for the point motors are left dangling, each with a tag indicating the ID of the point, routed to the approximate location of the point.  I have shown the Digikeijs accessory decoder for the point motors on the board in close up.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-251116195157.jpeg)

The number on the Digikeijs (if you can read upside down) is 33, indicating that it controls  the eight points 33 through to 40.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithbythe sea on November 26, 2016, 12:23:37 pm
Hi Laurence,

man cave and layout looking good.

"I investigated buying a new battery, but it was more expensive than buying a new drill, so I have ordered one from Screwfix and will pick it up in the morning."

I recently had a similar problem with my Bosch drill battery. I found a reasonably priced replacement on that well known auction site which seems to be performing well to date (after 3-4 months). Might be worth thinking about for a spare?

 :greatpicturessign:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Drakken on November 26, 2016, 02:02:52 pm
I'm so looking forward to seeing this layout progress. Think you have a well thought out plan ahead you have everything planned out and not rushing anything.

You can see already you've put an extreme amount of thought into the layout. I wouldn't have even considered were the points are over a cross member or not.

Subscribed  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 26, 2016, 07:11:02 pm
I had a minor disaster yesterday.  I switched off my soldering iron prior to going in for tea, but then remembered two more joints needed soldering.  So I switched it back on and completed the joints.  I then went in for tea, forgetting to switch it off again.  Unfortunately, these modern soldering irons have iron clad tips, alloyed to other metals, to extend their life.  When I went back to the train shed a couple of hours later, the tip of the iron had become unusable.  I tried all the standard methods of rejuvenating the tip, but to no avail.  In the end, I had to resort to the old-fashioned remedy of filing off the gunge and revealing the bare copper.  It now works again OK, but the life of the tip will be shorter and it will require more cleaning.  I have ordered a spare tip so that I will be able to replace it when the time comes (or I decide that I have had enough).  However, I have now rescued my old Weller solder gun from my toolbox:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-261116174125.jpeg)

It is 45 years old but still works like a dream.  Why did I buy a new iron I ask myself.  Well of course I need something less drastic for soldering droppers to the rails.  But otherwise, the solder gun has worked a treat.  It takes about 10 seconds to reach working temperature and has two heat settings, so it is perfect for soldering to the solder tags and tinning the bare copper of the stranded wires.

Otherwise, everything's gone swimmingly.  I have finished the middle station board, apart from wiring in the PSU and the DCC controller, which I forgot, but should not take too long to do.  I have also finished the left hand station board apart from connecting up the last point and connecting the Digikeijs to the power and signal buses.  So soon I shall be at a loose end again, waiting for the next delivery.  I need the next delivery before I can install any points because the cork underlay is required for the points.  However, I can still mark out the track positions ready for the underlay.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on November 29, 2016, 09:42:24 pm
It look as though the next batch of baseboards will be arriving on Friday, together with the cork underlay.  I should be able to get on with most of the wiring to the rest of the points then.  When I have the cork underlay, I will be able to start putting the points in position.  To that end, I have marked out the tops of the station boards for the initial down line/platform alignment.  I can run everything off that line.  I have made a start on the ratio platform kits.  These may not be the long-term solution, but they will be a good RtR starting point for the station.  I have found it essential to remove ALL the flashing very carefully so that they fit together nicely.  At first I found I had made a mistake in the quantities I had ordered, having ordered 16 main platform sections instead of 18.  However, I then found that the ramps are only half ramp and half platform, giving an additional two platform sections overall.  So I will have enough to accommodate 10 coach trains after all. :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 01, 2016, 06:47:02 am
I'm getting on with the Ratio platform kits.  The surface is a bit bland so I've made a Powerpoint slide of 3' X 2' slabs to cut into strips and stick onto the surface between the edging stones.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/3091-011216063725.jpeg)

It should be good enough to paper over the cracks between the sections.  If anyone wants a copy, I have attached a PDF of the file.  I will leave affixing the slabs until after I have painted the stone/brickwork.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on December 01, 2016, 08:20:36 am
Thanks Laurence.

I like Powerpoint and using it to make up the mimic board graphics for Hurst Hill.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 04, 2016, 07:30:01 pm
Second Batch

The second batch of baseboards arrived on Friday afternoon.  I have made up all the braced leg sets which you can see on the right hand side of the pic.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-041216181253.jpeg)

The board you can see standing is the first 4' X 2' board and I had some problems with it, all of my own making. After such a successful start with the first batch of boards, I got a bit blase and started making mistakes.  Right at the start, I hit the cross piece intersections too hard with the rubber mallet and split two of them.  Plenty of glue and support from the external boards eventually put it right.  Then I got carried away attaching the braced leg sets and drilled a hole in the wrong place.  Fortunately, I was able to find another location and put it right.

In the picture you can see two clamps holding the end board of the adjoining 3' X 2' baseboard.  I was just about to make another mistake.  In fact I had already made it but it didn't show up until after I had assembled the 3' X 2' board.  I had clamped the end board aligned with the end of the 4' X 2' baseboard, forgetting that there is a rebate at the ends.  The previous joins I had made were end to end, which is straightforward, but end to side required allowance to be made for the rebate.  To correct the error, I had to remove the end board from the assembly and, with the aid of a pair of 6'' pliers, pull out the alignment dowels,  However, there was no way to remove the female dowels from the 4' X 2' baseboard, so I had to turn the 3' X 2' baseboard round and clamp the other end in the correct position.  But, of course, all the holes were already drilled in the side board of the 4' X 2' baseboard, so I had to use a drill to mark the positions on the end board and then remove it and drill it in the correct position.  Phew!

I have been looking at some Metcalf models and ordered a few.  In order to accommodate them, I have made some refinements to the layout.  The station building, goods depot and milk depot have all shrunk to realistic sizes.  Also I have added a footbridge and an UP platform shelter.  To accommodate this I have increased the width of the platforms and slightly modified the track plan within the station.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-041216183703.jpeg)

As you can see, there is now a bay platform on the DOWN side, mainly for parcels.  I may add another couple of points here to create a coal yard between the bay and the road.

The only outstanding items of the baseboard order are the braced legs for the 4' X 1'6'' boards and the 5' X 1' boards along the side of the train shed to connect the station boards to the storage loops.  They should appear in the next week or so.  Meanwhile, when I have finished assembling all the boards that have been delivered, I'll be fully occupied wiring them up in the same manner as the station boards.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 07, 2016, 09:52:01 pm
I Have now completed assembling all 6 baseboards that were delivered last week.  Unfortunately, I have only been able to fit the braced legs to the UP side because I ran out of screws.  More are promised but I have ordered some to be collected from Screwfix tomorrow.  Screws are always useful.  I collected a bag of 50 M10 50mm bolts from Screwfix yesterday so that I can join boards where there is a braced leg on the side of the join.  The standard bolts are only just long enough and it takes some effort to fit them.  The bolts cost the princely sum of £1.74  and should keep me going for several years.  As soon as I attach all the legs, I'll post a picture to give a better feel for the final arrangement of the baseboards.

I have made some mods to the layout, adding a small goods yard to the bay platform.  The yard will contain a coal office and a couple of coal staithes plus a cattle dock/horse pen. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-071216213603.png)

To effect this I have moved the points giving access into the goods depot to the left onto the middle board and I will order another Digikeijs accessory decoder for that board. It will also control the points in the goods yard.  This will give me some redundancy of outlets which might prove useful at some time in the future.  It also allows me to move the goods depot to the left so that the exit points will now be before the main sweeping curve at the DOWN end of the station.  Of course, I could have used the existing spare Digikeijs outlets, but that would have meant connecting points across boards.  I would rather the points were all on the same board as the decoder, otherwise, if ever I have to separate the boards, it would mean either unsoldering the point motors or fiddling with the connections to the Digikeijs.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 08, 2016, 10:01:00 am
At the RHS may I suggest you replace the right hand point by using a left hand point as the final part of the 90 degree curve as it will remove an 'S' shape and probably give better running, similar to this but flipped over (hope that makes sense)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/6/main_36767.jpg)

(I plan in set track but use flexitrack)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 08, 2016, 10:56:31 am
At the RHS may I suggest you replace the right hand point by using a left hand point as the final part of the 90 degree curve as it will remove an 'S' shape and probably give better running, similar to this but flipped over (hope that makes sense)

Thanks for the suggestion.  That's a configuration I had on an earlier plan, but I wanted the trailing points on the main line to be on the straight because the express passengers will be traversing them at about 60mph (scale speed).  The only trains traversing the 'S' will be the local goods exiting the goods depot at about 10mph (again scale speed).  In some ways, I think it is quite nice seeing a slow moving train traversing an 'S' between parallel tracks.  I reminds me of looking out of carriage door drop-down windows all those years ago.  But I'll bear your suggestion in mind in case the need arises.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 08, 2016, 04:56:32 pm
We're getting there - or at least making progress

I went to Screwfix and bought the requisite screws and so now I have finished assembling everything I have.  I did make one or two more goofs but nothing that couldn't be retrieved.  As luck would have it, sods law dictated that the screws that Martin posted on Monday arrived this afternoon - good old Christmas post!  I took a picture of the boards from outside the window to give an idea of the scale of things.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-081216163015.jpeg)

Since then, I have attached the 4' X 1'6'' extension boards next to the doorway, although I need to fit the legs when they arrive.  I have finished attaching all the solder tags and I am ready to start wiring.  Here's another picture from inside showing the extension boards attached.  At the moment, they are just bolted on.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-081216162734.jpeg)

All I need now is the legs for the extension boards and the 5' X 1' side boards.  Once all the wiring is complete I will start locating the points and point motors, prior to laying the track.  Is it possible that I might have something running before Christmas?  Well, that might be too much to expect, but I might be able to start commissioning in earnest in the new year.  You never know, but I prefer to err on the conservative side because I have seen too many disappointments in the past.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithfre on December 08, 2016, 05:10:30 pm
That's a work of art on its own. Why not put it in for the Turner Prize  ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on December 08, 2016, 05:16:21 pm
Looks brilliant. :thumbsup:

Cant wait to see it when the track-laying starts.

Wonder what happens to all those circles as a result of them there holes? Shed loads of Roundtoits?

Haven't got a coat so I'll crawl back under my layout.

Dave G

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 08, 2016, 05:23:19 pm
That's a work of art on its own. Why not put it in for the Turner Prize  ;)

I think its probably too orderly for that.  I suppose I could add a few plastic plates and a teapot or two to various parts of the baseboards.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 08, 2016, 05:28:45 pm
Wonder what happens to all those circles as a result of them there holes? Shed loads of Roundtoits?
I don't know, but the holes are very useful for wiring.  Perhaps I'll ask Martin what he does with them.  Reminds me of when I was a teenager and we used to buy triangular 5-ply off-cuts from the timber yard and turn them into boomerangs.  I sold the small ones for a shilling (5p today) and the large ones for half a crown (12.5p today).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 08, 2016, 05:36:16 pm
With regard to the modified layout for the goods yard, it looks as though I may have to resort to Plan B.  I tried to order another Digikeijs 4018 today, but the manufacturers are out of stock.  So I may have to resort to wiring points across board boundaries.  I guess the judicious use of barrier strip might be the best bet.  I will order the points first, but there's no rush.  I just can't make the final screw-down of the station baseboards until the situation is resolved, one way or another.  I'll start by using Plan B wiring and then I can always revert to Plan A if the decoder becomes availalbe in time.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithbythe sea on December 08, 2016, 05:41:25 pm
That's a work of art on its own. Why not put it in for the Turner Prize  ;)

I think its probably too orderly for that.  I suppose I could add a few plastic plates and a teapot or two to various parts of the baseboards.

No, what you need is a shark :goggleeyes:

Looking good.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 08, 2016, 07:59:16 pm
The shark idea sounds like Bill Heine revisited.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on December 08, 2016, 08:43:20 pm
Looking good the Laurence, you seem to have some large mice though with those large holes. I bet you can not wait to make a start on the track.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on December 08, 2016, 10:14:49 pm
Excellent progress, Laurence. That is a very impressive collection of baseboards. I'm also looking forward to seeing some trains running before year end. 8-)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 09, 2016, 07:20:27 pm
I've definitely decided to use Plan B.  In fact, strictly speaking it's Plan B2.  I have received a pack of barrier strip from RS today

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-091216180135.jpeg)

I will use it to connect the point motors to the decoders at the board boundaries.  This will make it easy to split the boards in future.  I have now wired all the bus lines for the UP loop boards and have stripped the insulation off the connecting plugs & sockets.  I have tinned four of them, but I had to go out this afternoon so the rest will have to wait until tomorrow.  Next it's fitting the Digikeijs and installing the wiring for the point motors.  Of course, I will then have to repeat it all for the DOWN loop boards.

The final 5' X 1' boards should arrive next week together with the braced legs for the extension boards.  It should be fairly simple to attach the legs because the extension boards can be detached by unfastening the M10 bolts and unplugging the connectors.  So then it should all fit together and it will be time to start positioning the points and installing the point motors.  Of course, I will also have to order the additional points for the coal yard, but they can be left until last.  I will also have to order some additional platform sections to allow for the fact that I have doubled up on the mainline platform widths.  I will also need to order the goods shed and factory (that I am going to use for the mild depot).  The first will be necessary to ensure the correct spacing of the goods loop.

On the subject of the good yard, at the risk of being repetitive, I think I have now formed the final layout plan, which includes a third siding in the yard

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-091216181825.gif)

One will be for coal, very important in a rural town, one for livestock including horses, with stud farms common in the area and a third for general bulk goods.  This should give me an excuse to site a crane in the goods yard.  So I should be busy for a while yet.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 10, 2016, 08:01:42 pm
I've now wired up all the bus wires and connecting plugs on both the UP and DOWN loop boards.  Hopefully, you can get an impression of the result here

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-101216182912.jpeg)

The silver wires are the bare TCW of the DCC bus and the white cable is the power bus for the Digikeijs accessory decoders to give sufficient power to the Seep coils, independent of the DCC.  You can also make out the red and black connection wires of the plug and socket connections between the boards, on the upper left for the DCC and the lower left for the power bus.  The usefulness of the holes in the cross members should be apparent from the picture.

I've ordered the extra points and platform sections and I've also ordered the good shed, milk factory and some buildings for the town from Metcalfe.  I should finish the points looms for the loop boards tomorrow and then I can get on with positioning points and point motors on the station boards.  The first priority will be positioning the main lines through the station with the associated points, followed by the branch and the milk depot.  The goods loop will have to wait until I've constructed the card goods shed to determine the spacing between the goods loop and the main down line.  I have decided to adorn the front o the factory buiding to be used for the mild depot with a large (relatively) sign "MORTON CREAMERY".  This is consistent with the original prototype which had a similar sign "UNITED DARIES LONDON".
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on December 10, 2016, 10:59:31 pm
 :hellosign: Excellent progress Laurence, very neat work   :thumbsup:
      regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 11, 2016, 06:50:42 pm
I've now connected both Digikeijs decoders to all 16 points looms on the DOWN loop board.  This should give some idea of the arrangement.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-111216175339.jpeg)

I've also connected one Digikeijs to its 8 points looms on the UP loop board.  So there's just one to go before I set about the station boards, first locating the points on the DOWN main and then fitting the Seep PM1s.  I will use the built in switch on the PM1s to switch the polarity of the frogs, so each frog will require a dropper to connect to the point motor.

While on the subject of points polarity and the possibility of shorting, much has already been said, but I would like to make the following observations, many of which have been made by others at some time.  Clearly the frogs must be isolated from the running rails to which they connect.  There are then two possibilities of shorts.  The first is the action of a loco approaching a set of trailing points from the "wrong" direction.  In real world prototypes this is often used where a loco runs around a train, with the force of the loco wheels sufficient to create a gap for the flanges.  However, with an electric powered two-rail model, when the pick-up wheels cross the insulation between the frog and the running rails, they will create a short circuit by bridging the insulation.  It is also possible for a short to be created if a non pick-up vehicle pushes the point bladed across onto the other rail.  There is little that can be done about this other than to ensure that a vehicle never approaches from the wrong direction.

The second scenario is where the inside of the flanges of the wheels make electrical contact with the open point blade as they pass.  With Peco Code 55, this should not happen unless there is a derailment or a very poorly aligned wheel because the gap is unrealistically wide.  However if you are worried about the possiblity, it is best prevented by ensuring that there can be no electrical contact between the wheel flange and the point blade.  A simple method is to paint the contact side of the point blades with a non-conducting paint.  Contact is not required when the point is set because the frog dropper will connect the point blades to the correct rail.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on December 11, 2016, 06:55:51 pm
Great progress Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 12, 2016, 07:14:12 pm
At long last, I have finished all the wiring, apart from the bus wires for the two 5' X 1' boards, which should arrive by the end of the week.  I've added the extra wiring for the three points in the goods yard and also used the chocolate block barrier strip to connect between boards, so there are now five points on the central station board.  So now I can concentrate on getting some track down.  To that end of I have laid the first length of self-adhesive cork underlay for the Down main through the station

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-121216173807.jpeg)

Here's another view

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-121216173912.jpeg)

I have laid a length of wooden sleeper track on the top of the underlay, but not fastened it down yet.  What is the current preferred method of fixing track?  I used to use track pins, but that was 30 years ago. 

My next job will be to position the parallel underlay for the UP line and locate the points from the branch.  There will be a bit of trial and error involved in positioning the points and Seep point motors, but I hope it won't be too problematic.  I intend to use 25mm as the the centre to centre spacing between parallel tracks which is a scale distance of 12' 1.7"", which should be close enough.  I generally use as a working rule 12', which gives an "S" spacing between the inside of the two parallel tracks as 7' 3.5''.  Given the loading gauge restriction of 9' this leaves a gap between passing trains of 3'.  I haven't checked the distance resulting from two code 55 points connected frog to frog, but it may give a distance slightly greater than 25mm.  Whatever it is, I will use it where appropriate.

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on December 12, 2016, 09:37:23 pm
Nice boards Laurence it is going to be one hell of a nice layout.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on December 13, 2016, 07:57:13 am
Thanks for the update, Laurence.

Getting exciting with the track going down!

I use and am very happy with Copydex. It dries quickly and it's an easy clean-up and/or removal should you have a change of plan, or as in my case, do something wrong!

Buy Copydex online as it's a load cheaper than on the high street.

Other latex glues are available but they tend to be in large quantities, which may be good for the bigger projects.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: weave on December 13, 2016, 08:54:45 am
Hi Laurence,

Thought I'd get on board what already looks like a fantastic journey.

Great stuff and looking forward to more.

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 13, 2016, 07:02:50 pm
Well, after another hectic day, there are three pieces of good news.  I say another hectic day because on Monday morning we play table tennis and on Tuesday and Wednesday morning we go to the gym where I do Pilates (to try and keep supple).  So I only have the afternoons to play with the train shed.  The first piece of good news is that I have at last found a use for our box of craft knives.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-131216171905.jpeg)

We have had them for at least ten years, possibly twenty.  We never bought them I don't recall anyone giving them to us, but they have been sitting in a drawer or, in fact, a series of drawers for many years, through at least three house moves.  But they are coming into their own with the first part of track laying.

The second piece of good news is that the final baseboards will be delivered on Thursday.  They will arrive together with the braced legs for the 4' extension boards and enough plywood stand-offs for the Seep point motors, which will allow a bit more tolerance in the movement.

The third piece of good news is that I have really been able to make progress on track laying.  In fact, I am not actually laying any track, but laying down the self-adhesive cork underlay for the track to sit on.  It's really good, because I can get everything laid out before I actually lay the track.  I have found the best way is to peel the backing a bit at a time and lay the track along a straight edge.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-131216172018.jpeg)

Of course, on the curves I will have to draw out the arc of the curve and lay the underlay along the line of the curve.  Using this method allows me to position the points and align with the platform edges before I commit to real track lay-down.  I have used a couple of platform sections to move along between the lines surrounding the island platform, checking that the spacing is correct

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-131216172126.jpeg)

I have now finished most of the station layout, apart from the goods depot and yard.  Here is a view form the DOWN end of the station.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-131216172236.jpeg)

And here is a view from the UP end. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-131216172327.jpeg)

You will notice a coach which I used to check the distance from the platform edge.  You can also see the Metcalfe card goods shed kit.  I need to build it to make sure I allow sufficient spacing between the goods loop and the DOWN main.  I have brought the instruction in this evening and I will probably read through them two of three times to make sure that I get it right first time, having never build a Metcalfe model before.  I hope to make more progress tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on December 13, 2016, 09:05:00 pm
All looking very good.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 13, 2016, 09:36:57 pm
More progress in a day than I make in a year :-[
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 14, 2016, 05:45:46 pm
Well, the craft knife set really came into its own today.  It was particularly useful for sculpturing the underlay that joins onto the frog end of points.  The problem that has to be solved is that the width of the frog end of the points underlay is significantly less than the width of two pieces of underlay laid side by side.  So some delicate trimming was required, but all with great success.  Sometimes I had to have two or three goes at trimming to get the correct fit.  I have finished all the station track underlay now and it is ready for actual track laying.  Here's a picture from the UP end of the station

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-141216165822.jpeg)

The pieces of track you can see have just been laid on the top for now.  Here's a view from the DOWN end

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-141216170017.jpeg)

And here's a close up of the goods yard, the bay platform line and the goods loop

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-141216170425.jpeg)

The goods yard,together with the bay platform is simply a divided extension of the goods loop tail shunt.  Initially, they will be used to store spare rolling stock but, eventually, I may extend the goods loop head shunt to facilitate unscheduled shunting.

The craft knives proved really useful when I had finished because I had to slice down each of the baseboard joints so that I could lift the baseboards.  Initially, I have simply shifted the two end boards towards the middle so that, when the remaining boards are delivered tomorrow, I will be able to mate the ends with the existing boards.  I will also have to do the same for the joins with the storage loops.  When all the boards are complete, I can then start fitting track to the station boards, starting with the points.  In order to fit the points and Seep point motors, I will have to lift the boards because the Seeps have to be fitted to the underside.  I would like to get at least one of the points installed and working so that I can test the overall wiring installation.  Then it will be on with fitting the underlay to the storage loops followed by the connecting boards.

Will I have anything running by Christmas?  Well it is very much touch and go at the moment.  Other commitments may get in the way.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Ditape on December 14, 2016, 06:11:01 pm
you look to be making good progress.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 15, 2016, 08:16:51 pm
No pictures today, I'm afraid.  But lots of news.  The last delivery of baseboards has arrived so, as soon as I'm ready, I will be able to complete the board structure.  Also today, my Hattons order for extra platform sections and the goods yard points has arrived.  But mostly today I have been working on the UP loop board.  I have completed installing the self-adhesive underlay for all the exit points and and roads to the DOWN main.  I have installed the underlay for the part of the branch run around and put in place the underlay for all the entrance points from the UP main, but I have not yet completed all the roads connecting them.  This was the most difficult part because I had to construct the curves, some circular and some eliptical.  I did this with the aid of string, pins and a pencil.  The idea was to find the ideal position for the points for each road.  It was made more difficult because of the need to add a small section of road between consecutive points to prevent fouling the operating lever by the adjacent track.  But I have made good progress and look forward to completing the UP loop board by the end of tomorrow.  But with Christmas looming I think it unlikely that I will complete the DOWN loop board, assemble the newly delivered boards and complete all the underlay before Christmas.  Even if I do, I will have to install and test all the points before I can think about completing even one circuit of track. 

But maybe...  If I can get some work done on completing part of the track on the station boards, perhaps I'll be able to put a train on the track and move it just a little.  I have now taken delivery of a large bottle of Copydex, on advice, to glue the track to the underlay.

When the track layout is complete, I am minded to go to work with a razor saw and notch the tops of the running rails every 120mm to recreate the effect of the wheels passing over the rails joints on 60' rail sections.  Does anyone have any comments?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on December 15, 2016, 08:21:39 pm
Sounds like a busy day for you.
The Copydex is certainly a good ides in my opinion. If you make a mistake, it lifts easily and peels off the base of the ttrack cleanly. Does need to be weighted down in order to set though.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 15, 2016, 08:22:06 pm

When the track layout is complete, I am minded to go to work with a razor saw and notch the tops of the running rails every 120mm to recreate the effect of the wheels passing over the rails joints on 60' rail sections.  Does anyone have any comments?

It's something I did on a layout I built when I was in Northampton in the 1980s and was using code 80 flexi. Basically I would say "Don't do it" as it just gave somewhere for crud to accumulate, even though the effect was good.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on December 15, 2016, 08:27:00 pm

When the track layout is complete, I am minded to go to work with a razor saw and notch the tops of the running rails every 120mm to recreate the effect of the wheels passing over the rails joints on 60' rail sections.  Does anyone have any comments?

It's something I did on a layout I built when I was in Northampton in the 1980s and was using code 80 flexi. Basically I would say "Don't do it" as it just gave somewhere for crud to accumulate, even though the effect was good.
I also had a go at that idea on Port Perran-1. I agree with NN it is a place for crud to hide and accumulate and I always though it didn't do loco wheels any good at all. I also wasnt very pleased with the result!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 16, 2016, 06:28:52 am
Thanks for the advice about the rail notches chaps.  I think I'll keep away from that for the time being.  As I've plenty of spare track, it's something I could experiment with later "off piste".
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 16, 2016, 10:09:31 am
If the sound is really something you want, Laurence, you could always cut the straight pieces of flexi into 120mm lengths and use normal joiners but that defeats the whole object of the flexi track. Use of a straight tracksetta would keep things in shape.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on December 16, 2016, 10:54:38 am
Yes not sure about cutting the track for the sound effects, the sound it makes is good. I have a section on my layout where there are a few joins and it does sound good. Copydex is good, that is how I have mine fixed down, I also use some small wood screws to hold the track in place between the sleepers. When the glue is dry which does not take long you remove the screws, you will not see the holes after ballasting.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 16, 2016, 08:29:07 pm
Well, today I had a major setback.  Fortunately at the end of the day I am still further forward than I was yesterday.  First I took a picture of the progress I had made yesterday with the UP loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-161216194625.jpeg)

When I was most of the way through installing the underlay for the entrance loops from the UP line I realised that I had installed four of the points across the joints between two boards.  That was a bit of a catastrophe.  Obviously this would prevent me from lifting the boards one at a time to install the point motors.  Lifting multiple boards simultaneously was out of the question.  So, reluctantly, I had to lift the underlay for the most of the track and start again.  I didn't want to remove the initial points so I had to relocate the offending points on the adjoining board.  This will mean another barrier strip exercise to connect them to the Digikeijs decoder, which is on the original board.

Before I carried out the remedial work, I was able to build the last two sets of braced legs to support the extension boards.  So that was at least some success before the coffee break.  I had to scrap much of the underlay which I ripped up but, fortunately, I was able to salvage all the pointwork underlay for relocation.  So, it was a case of patient reconstruction to complete the access points layout.

When I had finished I used the good old technique of pencil, string and pins to draw out the various arcs for the loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-161216194756.jpeg)

You have to be a little careful with this technique because the length of the sting changes slightly as it wraps around the pin.  This can be allowed for but the circle is slightly distorted, although not noticeably.  The main point to remember is to move the centre very slightly and check each end of the arc before drawing it.  Even then, some errors creep in, but they are quite obvious and can be easily corrected.  By lunchtime I had started laying out the loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-161216194924.jpeg)

I decided I needed a break after lunch and we went out to a garden centre and had a cup of tea there.  Whe I returned, I fitted the braced legs to the extension board on the UP loop side.  Finally, I finished the loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-161216195039.jpeg)

On the right hand side of the picture you can see the run around loop for the branch train.  I hope to be able to do at least a little tomorrow.  The first task will be to fit the remaining braced leg set.  Then I will set about the DOWN loops, having learned from the experience of the UP loops.  My plan is to move the first set of points to leave enough room to position the others on the correct side of the board join.

Well it's certainly been an interesting day.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on December 17, 2016, 10:40:10 am
Just been catching up on  your thread Laurence, your fairly cracking on!  The layout boards and neatness of the cork underlay and wiring are very impressive
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 17, 2016, 06:13:52 pm
I didn't get much done today, but I installed the barrier strips connecting the points which had been moved to the adjacent baseboard.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-171216180403.jpeg)

But there was more bad news.  Two of the points that I had moved onto the adjacent board were positioned so that the cross-members fouled the point motor mountings.  So I had to move them both, one a little upstream and the other a little downstream.  I also cleared the decks for laying the track underlay for the DOWN loops and fitted the braced legs for the DOWN loop extension board.  I have yet to attach the alignment braces for the legs.  I don't hold out much hope of trains moving before Christmas.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Maurits71 on December 17, 2016, 07:14:26 pm
still enough time :no:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 18, 2016, 05:36:53 pm
I have made progress on the DOWN loops today.  I had a problem this afternoon that took my attention away from the project for a while.  Our drain from the kitchen and utility room was badly blocked.  Fortunately, I was able to gouge out what amounted to about half a bucket full of fat from the pipe and every thing is OK again now.  Thank goodness it didn't happen next week!  Here's a picture of the down loops boards

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-181216172433.jpeg)

After all the errors that I made on the UP loops I was at least able to benefit from the lessons learned and today's layout was almost without a problem, if you discard having to readjust the position of one or two points.  So the next job will be to finish the connections between the entrance and exit point complexes and then I will be ready to assemble the remaining two connecting boards that connect the station boards with the storage loop boards.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 19, 2016, 06:52:59 pm
Today I finished laying out all the cork underlay on the DOWN storage loops board.  Unfortunately, my smugness about getting everything right yesterday was shattered in my sleep last night when I realised that I had put some of the parallel points too close together so that the point motors would foul each other.  This was rectified by moving alternate ones downstream a little, although I had to have two goes at one because, at the first attempt, I managed to locate the point motor where there was a cross member.  I checked the other storage loops board and found there was one pair there as well, so I will have to shift one of those too.  You can see the final result of the DOWN loop boards here

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-191216175739.jpeg)

You will see that adjoining the board is the new connecting board that joins the station boards with the storage loops.  I managed to finish assembling it this afternoon.  Here is the join between them in more detail

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-191216180915.jpeg)

And here is the other end. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-191216181039.jpeg)

When I have wired the connecting board I will be able to assemble the final connecting board.  And then I will be able to finish the whole layout in cork underlay, ready for real track laying. :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on December 19, 2016, 07:43:23 pm
That's really fast progress, Laurence, despite the quite understandable hiccups along the way. It's 3D puzzle, in effect, with a lot to remember. You will have excellent track laid and wiring completed before long. I'm sure you'll have at least one train running before New Year even if you don't manage before Christmas.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 19, 2016, 08:02:55 pm
Everything is just so neat and tidy. It makes my mancave look like I'm Stig of the Dump :-[
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 19, 2016, 08:35:43 pm
Everything is just so neat and tidy. It makes my mancave look like I'm Stig of the Dump :-[
That's because I move all the dross up to the other end when I'm working at one end.  If I showed you all the clutter you might not be so impressed
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on December 19, 2016, 09:05:41 pm
Well done Laurence, pleased to see you managed it in the end. I built my own baseboard and for the station and I deliberately did not fit the centre cross brace till after I laid the track, it goes between two points.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 20, 2016, 07:01:30 pm
The DOWN connector board is now complete, wired and fitted with cork underlay.  So the whole of the DOWN side is now complete and ready for track laying.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-201216172106.jpeg)

Here's a close up of the connector board

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-201216172224.jpeg)

The main double track is at the back edge, with nice straight lines for high speed expresses.  The branch line is in the foreground.  I have deliberately curved the track with the intention of creating some scenic high relief features to cause the meander.  The idea is that the main line would have cut through any such features, but the branch line would have been built "on the cheap" electing to go round rather than cut through.

I have also assembled and installed the UP connector board.  I hope that by the end of tomorrow I will have completed the underlay on that side of the layout so I will then be ready to start laying real track.  The track laying will begin with points to check whether I have wired everything correctly.  I now need to construct a Cayley table (a bit like a logic truth table) to construct an algorithm for connecting the solenoids and frog polarity.  This will ensure that all the points switch in the correct direction and the frogs are all wired correctly.  I wont get much done after tomorrow because of Christmas duties, but you never know. ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on December 20, 2016, 07:05:48 pm
Looks great.
I'm so impressed by the neatness and tidiness of everything.
I like the idea of the branch line meandering  I always think layouts look so much better if the railway sits into the landscape and not the other way around.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on December 21, 2016, 08:02:27 am
Laurence

I fully understand your problems with having turnouts winding up on top of formers or joints. This happened to me on more occasions than is just down to chance. Murphy's law or what I think you refer to as sod's law in the UK. What saved my bacon was the purchase of a device called a multi-function tool which is essentially a horizontally vibrating blade that allows one to cut vertically through plywood or anything else:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/4229-211216075252.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=46520)

I was able to chop holes in my baseboard and the underlying frame if necessary where I wanted to fit the point motors. The tool can be fitted with interchangeable blades having different widths. Mine is a Bosch but other manufacturers sell them as well.

Webbo

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on December 21, 2016, 08:25:37 am
Exactly wot he said. I rearranged pointwork because of the same reason..... point motor over timber. Wouldn't have had to do that if that tool was around in those days!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 21, 2016, 08:49:51 am
Well, at least I'm not alone.  However, I really have no excuse because I marked the positions of the cross members on the tops of the boards when I assembled them.  But when I came to move points because they were too close together to fit the point motors, I was so relieved to get them to a new position that I forgot to check the markings to make sure there was clearance for the point motors in the new positions.  In the same way, when I positioned the point motors on the first set of loops, although I made sure that the point motors were not fouled by the cross members and side boards, I forgot to make sure that I had not located some of the points across two boards, making it impossible to lift a board on its own.  Now, thankfully, everything is OK to go.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 21, 2016, 07:03:42 pm
Today I wired the bus lines for the final board and completed the self adhesive underlay between the UP storage loops and the station board.  So now the layout is complete in terms of the cork underlay.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-211216174700.jpeg)

I seem to have only used about half of the underlay.  I know Martin said there was more than enough, but I think I must have overestimated the quantity.  Still, I will have plenty to spare should I feel the need to re-lay the track.  So now it's real track laying.  I have begun with the first set of points.  It's not laid yet, but I have soldered the frog dropper to the frog and drilled a 2mm hole beneath the frog for the dropper.  You can see it here - it's the green wire disappearing into the baseboard.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-211216174739.jpeg)

And here it is again with the points lying on the underlay.  You can see some solder between the two sides of the frog, but when the ballasting is complete, it should be out of sight.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-211216174818.jpeg)

The idea is that the green wire will connect to the centre position of the PM1 auxiliary switch.  The other two terminals of the auxiliary switch will be connected to the DCC bus.  I thought out the connection Cayley table in bed last night, before I went to sleep (I find sorting out a problem is a good way to get off to sleep).  It's actually quite straight forward.  I don't have any curved, "Y" or double points, so they can all be considered as a straight and a turnout.  On a DCC controller, the points are either set to "1" or "2".  I have designated the turnout to be "1" and the straight to be "2".  I have designated the Seep coils as Brown and Blue.  The brown coil will always be connected to the "1" output and the blue to the "2" output.

Each rail on the layout is designated as either a red rail or a black rail and connected to the relevant DCC bus line.  For a turnout on the red side of the point, the brown coil needs to be on the black side because it causes the switch blades to divert the trains to the opposite outlet.  If the turnout is on the black side of the point the brown coil needs to be on the red side.  In other words, the brown coils will be on opposite sides, depending only on the direction of turnout. 

When the turnout is to the red side, the frog needs to be connected to the black bus for condition "1" and the red side for condition "2".  When the turnout is to the black side the opposite is the case.

In my scheme, the red side of the auxiliary switch needs to be connected to the red bus and the other to the black bus.  When the point has moved to divert to the red side of the track, the solenoid will have moved the activation lever to the black side and so frog needs to be connected to the black side of the switch and vice versa.  This makes for a fairly simple connection scheme.  I hope this all makes sense.

What I have not done yet is to carry out an end to end continuity test on the bus lines.  I expect it will be after Christmas now before I get round to it but, you never know, I might get a few minutes here and there (in reality it means removing the boards to gain access to the bus lines - rather than crawling about on the floor under the layout).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on December 22, 2016, 06:24:37 am
Great progress Laurence, how easy did you find the ballast to curve?  I tried some and it wrinkled up.. though it was quite thick... hence I resorted to shaping it out of sheets.  Yours looks very neat

I'll have to re-read your wiring description, I am sure it will make sense to most of the members!  Very early in the morning here for me, so I will need to work a bit harder at understanding it :)

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 22, 2016, 06:44:59 am
I've not actually started ballasting yet.  What you can see is flexible, self-adhesive, cork underlay from Model Railway Solutions (https://modelrailwaysolutions.co.uk/shop/self-adhesive-cork-underlay).  It follows curves very easily, even down to less than 12" radius.  In general I have drawn arcs to mark out the curves, using a pencil, string and noticeboard pins.  But for the meandering bit of the branch I just let it wander freely.  Occasionally a raised bit  will appear on the inside of a curve, but it can easily be pressed down to adhere to the baseboard.  I am using 9mm ply for the baseboard tops.  It can occasionally be a bit messy if you have to remove a section of underlay to re-lay it because the top film of the ply can delaminate, but its not a real problem because the ply will eventually be covered by ballast or scenic material.   When all the track is laid and tested, I will ballast using a ballaster onto PVA.  Hopefully, this will hide any imperfections in the dropper wiring.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 22, 2016, 12:31:33 pm
I did have a problem yesterday that I forgot to mention.  It was nothing to do with the layout.  My trusty old Weller solder gun broke, or at least the soldering tip did. This is something that happens periodically owing to the severe thermal stress in the copper caused by the rapid heating and cooling.  However, because I had not used it for many years I found that I didn't have a spare tip.  So I had to finish off with my Antex, which is pretty good apart from the fact that it takes 10 minutes to heat up and has to be switched off when not in use to prevent the sort of corrosion the ruined its original bit.  But I had a look on the internet last night and found some spare Weller tips on Amazon, so they are now in the post.  I'm not sure when I'll get round to using it again, probably not until after Christmas, so they should arrive in good time.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 22, 2016, 01:14:33 pm
When all the track is laid and tested, I will ballast using a ballaster onto PVA.

That's interesting of itself as the age old method is to lay the ballast and then use a PVA/water/washing up liquid solution onto the ballast :hmmm:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 22, 2016, 01:24:11 pm
The method that I have seen demonstrated is to lay neat PVA along the edges to create a shoulder and the spread the ballast.  When the PVA has dried things can be tidied up and then the ballast is sprayed with the PVA/water/washing up liquid.  Does this sound reasonable? The video sequence certainly looked convincing (http://modelrailwayengineer.com/n-gauge-track-laying-how-to/ (http://modelrailwayengineer.com/n-gauge-track-laying-how-to/)).  It's the forth clip down the page.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 22, 2016, 02:18:32 pm
Sorry, Laurence. I misunderstood you and thought you were applying PVA the full width and then dropping ballast onto the glue.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on December 22, 2016, 05:21:00 pm
Sorry, Laurence. I misunderstood you and thought you were applying PVA the full width and then dropping ballast onto the glue.
I got the wrong end of the stick as well Mick. Your system now make sense Laurence. Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 23, 2016, 10:24:33 am
I didn't get a lot done yesterday, but at least I did something.  However, I think it was a case of one step forward and two backwards.  First, I found that the soldering to the frog dropper fouled the insulated connectors.  No matter what I did it was a problem.  In the end I removed it and cleaned up the solder to allow the connectors to be fitted.  I soldered the dropper to the wire loop under the point that connects the frog to the switch blades and re-drilled the board.  That was OK.  I fitted DCC dropper connectors to the toe end, but I managed to drill the holes in the wrong place, but too close to drill new ones, which meant that the point would not lie flat on the underlay.  So I abandoned the idea, deciding to fit them further upstream.

I then remembered that I hadn't carried out and end-to-end test of the busbars and so, with the aid of a long length of 16/.02 insulated wire terminated by two crocodile clips, I checked the resistance for each bus.  In all cases it was about 2 ohms, but the test circuit (wire, leads and clips) registered about 0.5 ohm, so the resistance from the controller and powers supply to one end is less than 1 ohm, which I regard as OK.  In general, there will only be one moving loco at each end, although two or even three could be moving in the station, where the resistance will be very low because the supplies are connected to the central station board.

I then fixed the point in place with Copydex and set the blades to half switch using insulted 1/0.7mm wire to wedge between the switch blades and the fixed rails.  This is how I set the blades for using the template

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-231216102050.jpeg)

I drilled the baseboard through the operating lever with a 1mm drill and, using a 1 mm drill in the hole, used my template to drill pilot holes for the Seep fixing.   So far so good.  I went on to lay a couple of yards of wooden sleeper track in the station, using dropper connectors for the DCC supply.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-231216102124.jpeg)

At this stage I remembered that I needed to create a slot for the Seep operating lever but, of course, I could not now lift the point because it was firmly stuck down. :(  I tried drilling holes at the extremity of the movement, but was unable to connect them.  So I decided to lift the board and have a go at the underside.

It was at this stage that I realised that I needed to develop a method of propping up the board.  At first I lifted it to the vertical position and propped it against the wall.  But it is quite a long reach and, for the 4' boards, it will be impossible.  Also, the wiring looms for the points may not reach the board in the vertical position.  So last night I thought about how to prop the board at about 45 degrees.  I have some ideas and will try them out today if I get the chance.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 23, 2016, 10:37:04 am
Rest assured you are treading a path we all have, Laurence. I cannot believe there is anyone amongst the 5000 or so members of the NGF who has successfully done everything in the correct order and made no mistake - I know I haven't! :-[
When siting points with underboard motors there is just so much to think about and, just when you congratulate yourself for avoiding a cross brace of the baseboard, something else leaps up and bites yer bum :doh:
I sometimes wish I had gone along the Kato track as much of this would not be an issue.
They tell me it's all part of life's rich pageant :hmmm:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bob Tidbury on December 23, 2016, 12:03:08 pm
I like the idea of how to centralise the point blades I made a piece of plastic  that I pushed in between the badges but your idea is much simpler ,I also made another piece to fit the point motor to keep the pin in the middle while I fitted the motor to the board ,it made life a lot easier.Im sure others have their own way of doing the job.
Bob
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 23, 2016, 07:05:27 pm
Well today I have actually made a little real progress.  Before I describe what I have done, hereís a picture of my point motor template. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-231216165911.jpeg)

It is made by drilling a 1mm diameter central hole in some 3mm Plasticard, locating the Seep actuation rod through the hole and using the motor to mark out the position of the fixing holes.  It is important to make sure that the side opposite the motor is marked as the top. 

In order to use it, first locate the point exactly to its final position and secure it (with pins or by some other method).  Then, having first moved the switch blades to the central position (using the wire I described in my last post) drill a 1mm hole in the baseboards through the hole in the point activation lever which will be used for the point motor rod.  Then place a 1mm drill (or something similar) through the hole.  The central hole in the template is placed on the drill and two 1mm holes are drilled through the offset holes at each end (the centre line hole on the right was a mistake).  This marks the positions on the lower side of the baseboard for the screws affixing the Seep point motor.  It is important to ensure that the holes are drilled vertically and not at an angle. 

Once this has been completed, the point should be removed and holes drilled either side of the activation hole, perpendicular to the direction of the track.  These can be joined by using a needle file to create a slot of sufficient length and width.  Once the point motor has been located, replace the point and check that the solenoid travel is equal in both directions.  Minor adjustments can be made to the position of the point to balance the solenoid throw.  Once you are satisfied with the throw, the point can be positioned permanently.  Donít forget to add the frog dropper before the final positioning Ė it may be more difficult later.

Now for todayís progress.  I have devised a simple method of propping up the baseboard tops.  First I have used some ply off-cuts at the back to prevent the baseboard top from sliding off the frame.  They swivel down so that the top can be positioned correctly without removing them. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-231216174223.jpeg)

Then I have attached a piece of 20mm X 15mm timber (the size is unimportant as long as it is strong enough for the job) to one of the cross members and inserted a screw through the edge of the baseboard top.  The top is propped up by the timber and the screw engages with the end of the timber to prevent the top from slipping down.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-231216174150.jpeg)

After successfully completing that, I tried using a drill and needle file to create the slot.  But it was no good with the point glued in place.  So I took my courage in both hands and peeled off all the track I had laid yesterday.  I was able to remove the Copydex with an orbital sander.  In fact, it doesnít actually remove it but roughens it up so that it can easily be peeled off.  That done I was able to persevere with the needle file with the aid of a couple more drilled holes.  Because of the initial false start, there was quite a lot more fiddling than I would have liked, but I got there in the end.  So now you can see the point re-layed with some Copydex showing through between the sleepers.  Fortunately, when it dries it becomes reasonable invisible.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-231216170001.jpeg)

I have not cut off the point motor rod, as you can see, but I will obviously do that before the layout becomes live.  The next task will be to connect the loom for Accessory 44 (the ID of the point), switch on and test it.  Probably not until after Christmas.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bob Tidbury on December 23, 2016, 07:10:43 pm
Whatever you do DONT CUT THE MOTOR PIN WITH YOUR DREMEL.
Bob
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 23, 2016, 07:52:32 pm
If a pair of 6" side-cutting pliers won't do the job, I was thinking of using a junior hacksaw.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on December 23, 2016, 08:17:12 pm
If a pair of 6" side-cutting pliers won't do the job, I was thinking of using a junior hacksaw.

http://homebase.scene7.com/is/image/homebase/142177_R_Z001? (http://homebase.scene7.com/is/image/homebase/142177_R_Z001?)$LISTER$&wid=420&hei=420
I use these (or at least very similar). You need to cut the pin very low otherwise some locomotives will foul it as they pass (I had a problem with Dapol panniers).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: NinOz on December 24, 2016, 01:24:48 am
Whatever you do DONT CUT THE MOTOR PIN WITH YOUR DREMEL.
Bob

I use a Dremel with abrasive cutoff wheel to do mine.  Just do it in many short spurts to limit the temperature rise or risk melting any plastic in contact with the wire being cut.
Having a wet rag handy to quickly cool is advisable.

CFJ
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: NinOz on December 24, 2016, 01:32:46 am
If a pair of 6" side-cutting pliers won't do the job, I was thinking of using a junior hacksaw.
Problem with the hacksaw is anchoring the wire or else it can bounce around causing damage.
I prefer to mark the wire with a pen, remove the motor assembly and cut the wire on the work bench.  Then you have the fun of trying to get the wire back in place, one of those tests of dexterity and agility.

CFJ
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on December 24, 2016, 08:25:50 am
Great progress Laurence, how easy did you find the ballast to curve?  I tried some and it wrinkled up.. though it was quite thick... hence I resorted to shaping it out of sheets.  Yours looks very neat

I'll have to re-read your wiring description, I am sure it will make sense to most of the members!  Very early in the morning here for me, so I will need to work a bit harder at understanding it :)

Cheers,
Andrew

Thanks for clarifying... I did of course mean the cork underlay, not ballasting.... but it prompted a good discussion on the subject & a link to follow :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 24, 2016, 02:59:00 pm
I thought that, before I wire up the first set of points, I would try to make the crossover from the branch platform to the UP main, connecting with the first set of points.  The first thing I found was that the Peco insulated rail joiners are not really man enough for the job where there is a lateral force on the rail because of the curves.  I needed the curves, to prevent the crossover from being too long. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-241216144901.jpeg)

So I have hit on a plan, which I have yet to test.  The idea is to use metal rail joiners and then cut the rails (but not the whole track infrastructure) half way between the points.  I should be able to prevent the two halves from making contact by means of some glue.  Iím not certain about the outcome, but I might as well experiment now to get it right before I go any further.

I use these (or at least very similar). You need to cut the pin very low otherwise some locomotives will foul it as they pass (I had a problem with Dapol panniers).

As an afterthought, I have cut a small piece off the end of the Seep operating rod with a pair of reasonably beefy side cutters.  I didnít need to go for the 6Ē pliers (the Nuclear option?).  The only thing to remember is to hold your free hand immediately above the rod to prevent the off-cut from flying off at (very) high velocity, risking damage or even injury.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 24, 2016, 04:56:24 pm
As long as your glue is non conductive I'm sure you'll have no issues with the crossover, Laurence. After all, you only need a gap in both rails. The glue isn't really necessary but will prevent a short should expansion in the rails occur.

Please - whenever snipping track with Xuron cutters or point motor operating rods with side cutters - wear eye protection!!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 24, 2016, 05:05:37 pm
I've just had another little experiment.  I think I can get round the insulated rail joiner problem by pinning the ends of the crossover link rail very tightly at the ends so that it starts off in a straight line from the frog end of the point.  It may mean that I have to make a slight adjustment to the underlay.  Whether or not the Copydex will be strong enough to hold it in place once it is cured is another matter.  But I can always revert to plan B if all else fails.

Anyway, please all make sure you have a very good Christmas.  Those on the other side of the world will be waking up soon to Christmas Day.  Those on the other side of the Atlantic will be think about lunch soon.  HAPPY CHRISTMAS.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on December 24, 2016, 08:05:15 pm
Hi Laurence I see you are having fun laying the track, those pesky insulated joiners are a pain and fit for nothing. I believe the Fleichmen insulated joiners are more rigid though I have not tried them. They are no good if you have a curve piece after the point but to be honest you are best avoiding a curve immediately after a point anyway to avoid running issues later. I use my Dremel copy with a cutting disc to cut the motor pin but only in short bursts to avoid melting the tie bar. I also make a small slot in the board under the point tie bar for the actuataion rod on the motor before gluing the point down with copydex. I usually find a thin sharp blade is all you need to slide under the track to lift it if you make any errors. Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 25, 2016, 04:13:22 pm
I Had two Christmas presents today related to the train shed.  The first was a water boiler for making tea/coffee/cocoa and the second was an engineer's steel trolley, so I had an excuse to go down to the train shed to take them.  While there, I managed to solve the crossover problem by bending the piece of rail in question out of situ, so to speak, until I achieved the required profile.  So now it fits perfectly using insulated rail joiners.  The radius of curvature may be a little tighter that originally intended, but the Jubilee was able to traverse it without any problem (pushed along of course, because I have not connected the rails to the DCC bus yet).  Given that, under normal operations, only the milk train will use this crossover, I think it passes the test.

Anyway I hope you all had a good Christmas lunch and those in Europe will continue to have a good day.  Those across the pond still have lunch to look forward to and those in the antipodes will probably be in bed by now, thoroughly exhausted I expect. But, once again

Merry Christmas
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on December 25, 2016, 04:30:20 pm
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, too, Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 26, 2016, 09:23:04 pm
I did manage to get down to the train shed this morning, but I didn't get anything done on the layout.  However, I was able to assemble the trolley that I had as a Christmas present.  Here it is with some tools on

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-261216132339.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 27, 2016, 02:31:08 am
Where do the drinks and snacks go? :D ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 27, 2016, 05:45:31 pm
I had a really bad day today.  I had finished installing the first point motor, Accessory 44.  I was happy with the throw and decided that it was time to wire it up and test it.  I connected it to Output 44 and switched on the controller and the power bus supply.  I checked that it was in position 2 and selected Accessory 44.  I set it to ď1Ē and it worked OK.  I then switched it back again, with the same result.  I had not yet connected up the auxiliary switch for the frog to make sure everything worked OK first.  I decided to take a close look at the action of the auxiliary switch and switched the point back and forth a few times.  To my horror, the coils went up in smoke.  Well, I have a spare point motor, so I used it and tried again, off the board.  I didnít work on Output 44, so I connected it to Output 43.  It worked once or twice and then also went up in smoke. :'(  By this time I was really worried.  I disconnected everything then connected up the power bus and controller and checked the no-load operation of Output 44.  It registered a constant 17v on both sides.  Well no wonder the Seep burned out.  I tried Output 43 with the same result.  :(

So I checked the no-load operation of Output 42.  That was perfect.  The selected side increased to 18v for a fraction of a second and then returned to zero.  This was exactly the behaviour that is expected.  I then tried another Seep on Output 42 and it worked OK.  I noticed that when I changed the state on the controller there was sometimes a delay.  The Output operation was indicated by a red LED, which was not visible until I turned the Digikeijs over.  I then connected the point to Output 48 and it still worked OK.  I reinserted it back onto the baseboard and it was fine.  I was at a loss to explain the failures but I think the following must have happened.  With the first Seep, I must have changed it back and forward too quickly so that both Switch positions were trying to operate at the same time.  This would have damaged the coils which then went short circuit, causing Output 44 to fail in a dual high voltage state.  So when I first tried the spare Seep, its coils may have become shorted turns when I first tried it on 44.  So, when I subsequently tested on 43, it may have drawn too much current and caused Output 43 to fail in the same manner.  By the time I tried the next Seep I had realised that there could be something wrong with both 43 and 44 and so I carried out the voltage checks.  I connected the new Seep, with some trepidation, to Output 42.  To my relief it worked OK.  I made sure that the LED had extinguished after each operation before I switched it again.  The same was the case on 48.  So at worst, I will need to buy another Seep and another Digikeijs.  But for now, I may be able to get away with things as they are.  It will mean moving accessories 43 and 44 to Outputs 45 and 46.  It will also mean that I will have to leave one of the goods yard points inactive (except by finger operation) until I finally sort it all out.  I had originally intended to use 45,46 and 47 for the goods yard, but I will have be content with 47 and 48.  I don't envisage using the goods yard much, if at all, until the whole layout has been running for some time.

Once I was happy with the point operation I wired up the auxiliary switch, but without connecting it to the control bus.  It is slightly worrying that the switch measures about 4 Ohms in Position 2 although it measures only a fraction of an Ohm in Position 1.  I took another Seep point motor from its package and measured the resistance of its auxiliary switch.  Both sides of the switch measured less than 1 Ohm.  So I may need to apply some switch cleaner (RS Pro Lubricant) to clean the surfaces of the contacts on the switch with higher resistance. 

All in all it was a disappointing day, but I guess it could have been a lot worse.  At least I think I have everything under control now. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 27, 2016, 09:15:44 pm
Being a complete electrickery thicko and also only running DC, is the digikeijs doing the same job a Capacity Discharge Unit would i.e. firing a short burst of power to the Seep so as to avoid burn out?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: weave on December 27, 2016, 11:03:49 pm
Being a complete electrickery thicko and also only running DC, is the digikeijs doing the same job a Capacity Discharge Unit would i.e. firing a short burst of power to the Seep so as to avoid burn out?

I'm DC too, are you talking about Christmas sprouts?

Sorry, I'll get my nappie  :-[
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 28, 2016, 06:43:18 am
Being a complete electrickery thicko and also only running DC, is the digikeijs doing the same job a Capacity Discharge Unit would i.e. firing a short burst of power to the Seep so as to avoid burn out?
Yes, the Digikeijs sends an 18v pulse of about 0.2 seconds.  The coil fires across and then the solenoid relaxes when the pulse has finished.  I'm hoping that I may get some more points wired today without further problems, but I will have to keep my fingers crossed!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on December 28, 2016, 07:19:17 am
Bad luck with those 'burn outs' but it does sound as if you really do know what you're doing!

I'm with NPN with the choice of electrickery and glad I've stuck with DC despite the miles of wire I seem to be going through.

Looking forward to your next update, Laurence.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 28, 2016, 08:35:20 am
Well, thank goodness for online ordering.  I have ordered 2 Digikeijs (1 spare, just in case) 4 PM1s (again just in case) and the switch cleaner from RS.  So, hopefully, a little sadder and wiser, I am now back on track, if a little delayed.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on December 28, 2016, 09:48:55 am
Im with NPN and DG as far as electrics go. Complete mystery to me.
I thought that digi thing was some sort of aboriginal musical instrument  :D
Good luck with sorting it all.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on December 28, 2016, 10:20:49 am
I hope all will now go well, Laurence. All this 'electrickery' is far too complex for me. Very luckily my landlord enjoys learning about such things and helps me out; plus, Cant Cove is a very simple little layout to operate.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 28, 2016, 09:04:37 pm
One bit of good news today - the soldering tips for my trusty Weller solder gun have arrived.  They come as a set of two so I ordered two sets.  That should keep me going for some time.  When I used to us it in earnest for a living, many years ago, a soldering tip would last several months, or even longer, so four should see me out, given the reduced amount of soldering that I expect to be doing over the next couple of years.

I managed to mount the second point but I found creating a slot that allowed the Seep to operate correctly somewhat fiddly and time consuming.  I drilled three 2mm holes and then spent a LONG time filing them out with a set of needle files.  I have decided that this is not for me and I ordered a 3mm router this evening.  It probably won't arrive for a week, so I might still have to do some more filing.  But I have now fitted the point plus a short linking section of track to the next point.  Because they are toe to toe, I had to include a pair of droppers with the link.  The point motor for the second point, Accessory 43 (but temporarily 47 - see yesterday's post), is fitted and appears to be in the corect position, but I haven't powered it up yet to check the operation.  I did remember in the end to connect the frog dropper, but I nearly forgot it.  I guess I ought to write myself a checklist for installing each point.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on December 29, 2016, 02:37:29 am
 :hellosign: All sounds like good fun Laurence I admire your patience & very methodical working practice
    regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steve.T on December 29, 2016, 11:02:28 am
Just to comment on what a great thread this is.
I am jealous, I admit, but can't wait for the next installment.  :)

Steve
 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 29, 2016, 05:43:48 pm
Well I had a better day today and some good news.  First, the replacement Seep PM1s I ordered have arrived, together with some sleepers for under the connectors.  I have added a couple of sleepers, but I'll have a good blast at them soon.  In future, I will fit them as I lay the track.  The switch cleaner, connectors and tape have arrived from RS but, because I was out, I'll need to collect them from the local Post Office tomorrow.  I have now laid four points, three of them with the point motors wired and tested.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-291216173026.jpeg)

I've developed a better technique for cutting the slot for the point operating rod, so that's a bonus.  I've also hit on the idea of making the frog dropper a short one and connecting up the point off the board, joining the dropper to the wire from the centre of the auxiliary switch when everything is in place.  As soon as I have connected the point motor for the forth point I will have completed the milk loop exit.  Then I'll start on the centre station board.  I'll join the track across the boards later.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 30, 2016, 07:26:30 pm
Today started in a promising manner.  Unfortunately the promise was not fulfilled.  First, I went to the local Post Office and collected the RadioSpares parcel Ė various colours of PVC tape, an aerosol of switch cleaner and some barrier strip connectors.  So far so good.  Later I was able to wire up the forth point, although I had a last minute panic because I didnít remember to connect the frog dropper until after I had put down the Copydex to fix the point.  However, all was not lost, only a little time.  Eventually I had all four points working correctly.  Thatís when things started to go wrong.  All four points are part of a DCC route and so I thought I would add them all to the route and test the route operation.  Every time I switched it there was a loud buzzing noise.  When I checked visually, I saw that one of the points was vibrating during the buzzing.  I check the individual point operation and everything was OK.  So I tried the route again, with the same result.  I thought I could detect a smell of overheating.  When I tried the point that had been vibrating, it switch once and then seriously overheated.  Another point motor destroyed.  Only one coil was damaged, but one side of the Digikeijs output was permanently high voltage.  So, another point motor and another Digikeijs output unavailable.  So now there was only one output available for the goods yard.  But I got everything working again and resolved to abandon the idea of grouping points into routes, at least for the time being.

I then noticed that one of the sets of points had come adrift from its connector.  This meant there was a vertical discontinuity in the rails.  Unfortunately, it was a power dropper connector and I had to remove one of the point motors to remove the dropper because the connector had become damaged.  However, eventually, I managed to get everything back together, albeit with some unplanned Copydex and unexpected pinning.  I then tested everything again and all was well.

With all the points working, I resolved to wire up the dropper supplies to the rails so that I could screw down the board and finish laying all the track, ready to move on to the next board.  Having connected the first two pairs of droppers I decided to test the track with a loco.  I placed Loco 19 (the branch loco) on the track that had been connected.  NOTHING.  I tried several ploys with no success.  I then placed Loco 4 (the Grange) on the track, but still with no luck.  Considering that I had programmed and tested them all when they arrived, I found this somewhat disconcerting.  I decided to create a new test track, switched with a double pole change over switch (DPCO) so that it could be connected to either the main output or the program output.  I then placed Loco 19 on it but, again, nothing.  I then tried Loco 4 and checked its address, which was correct.  I reprogrammed it and switched to main.  To my relief it worked OK and when I put it back on the original track, it continued to work.  I then checked the address of Loco 19, only to find that its address was Loco 2.  So I reprogrammed it and it now worked OK.  However, it was difficult to set it up.  It ran too fast and, no matter what I programmed in, it still ran too fast.  It does have a cheap chip but, because it requires a right-angle chip to fit under the boiler, it was the only one I could find.

Another bit of good news is that I have ordered a Collett goods from KJB models, so this can be used to pull the local goods and the 57XX, that was originally intended for the local goods, could be used for the branch line.  I could then consign the 64XX, the original Loco 19, to yard duties.  I had hoped to show some pics today of the underside wiring and the completed board layout, but I never got that far.  So, I hope to be able to make more linear progress tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on December 30, 2016, 07:46:58 pm
I'm starting to think remaining a DC dinosaur is going to be good for me :hmmm:
Glad you found a 22xx, Laurence. The tender is not quite right but they are nice lookers.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on December 30, 2016, 07:49:50 pm
I'm also very glad that you will have a Peco Collett 0-6-0, Laurence. The 64XX would be more suitable for the branch and the 57XX for the yard I would have thought.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on December 30, 2016, 09:23:25 pm
Hi there Laurence I am sure you will sort your teething problems,but the digikiss  thing seems  to be causing you some problems with the motors,I would not be happy with that. I just have my points controlled through a panel, I might at some time in the future add decoders. All the best for the new year.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: thetigers123 on December 31, 2016, 12:50:11 am
What A well written and informative diary, thanks for sharing. And so close to where i live too.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 31, 2016, 06:44:31 am
I'm also very glad that you will have a Peco Collett 0-6-0, Laurence. The 64XX would be more suitable for the branch and the 57XX for the yard I would have thought.
I agree the 64XX is better suited to the branch but, if I can't get the running sorted out, then it's the goods yard until I can find a solution.  The 57XX can manage the branch until then.
Hi there Laurence I am sure you will sort your teething problems,but the digikiss  thing seems  to be causing you some problems with the motors,I would not be happy with that. I just have my points controlled through a panel, I might at some time in the future add decoders. All the best for the new year.
I don't think the problem is with the Digikeijs, but the route setting seems to have caused a problem.  I might try re-programming the Digikeijs to reduce the length of the pulse.  From what I can see in the bumf, the factory preset pulse length is about 750ms.  I might try shortening it to say 200ms.  I'll have to see if I can manage the programming of the CVs.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on December 31, 2016, 07:46:55 pm
Today was a good news/very bad news day.  The Peco Collett goods arrived this morning.  After lunch, I tried it out on my test track but it just stuttered along for a bit and then stopped.  New locos often stutter a little at first, but the Collett was almost unable to make any progress at all.  Then it seemed to give up the ghost altogether.  Now, every time I try to start it moving, it simply sits there and hums quietly to itself.  I spent quite a time with it on two different tracks, but to no avail.  I checked that the tracks were OK with another loco.  Itís as though it were a DC loco on a DCC track.  I havenít tried it on DC.  I have a 9v supply that I could try.  But that was very disappointing and frustrating.

After that things got worse.  I decided to check all the installed points with a view to attempting to reduce the pulse width.  They all worked out and back, so to speak, until the last one.  On its return, it stayed on and the coil overheated.  I need to find out what the problem is.  I have used an 18v auxiliary power supply and the Digikeijs is supposed to operate with an auxiliary supply of between 12v and 18v.  It may be that I am driving it to its limit.  The other possibility is that the Seeps are breaking down because of the voltage, but they are supposed to work between 12v and 24v.

I originally decided to use and auxiliary supply because of the load on the DCC bus when several points are switched at the same time.  However, if I change my plan and operate each point separately, I may be able to revert to connecting the Digikeijs power supply to the DCC bus.  This is one of the methods proposed by Digikeijs, but they recommend a separate auxiliary supply to reduce the load on the DCC bus.  My next plan is to revert to a bootstrap between the DCC signal and the power input terminals.  If this works without further problems, then I will need to consider a different power source for the Digikeijs with a lower voltage, say 12v.

I had hoped to connect all the droppers today and get the first board screwed down so that I could finish laying all of the track on that board before moving onto the central station board.  But I think that will have to wait until I am happy with the current board.  I need to progress fairly slowly at the moment and ensure I am 100% confident with each step before progressing on to the next stage.  Iím sorry that itís all a bit doom and gloom at the moment.  As I remember one project manager saying, in the context of a difficult project ďThereís too much frivolity here, what we need is some doom and gloomĒ.  Hopefully there will be better new in my next post.

Anyway, enough of my miseries.  HAPPY NEW YEAR to one and all!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on January 01, 2017, 12:45:14 am
Hi Laurence

You certainly seem to having a tough time with these Digikeijs units of yours. I'm not familiar with these devices, but from what I can glean they provide a switching system that enables you to operate your points through DCC control. The Digikeijs are powered from a DC supply and when switched effectively provide a pulsed voltage spike to your Seep coils that in some cases you've wired up in series? A bit like using a digitally controlled CDU? If your Seep coils are burning out, then this seems to me that the current is not being switched off after the pulse and that there is something wrong with the Digikeijs unit(s). Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?

In any event, I'm sure the solution is just round the corner for you.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 01, 2017, 06:52:24 am
Your initial analysis is correct Webbo.

When I operate a point, it clicks across and then it clicks again as the coil releases and the operating rod returns to its straight position.  It looks as though the problem arises because the Digikeijs output is going short circuit and putting a permanent high on the coil, which then burns out.  I am going to disconnect the 18v DC power input to the Digikeijs and strap it to the DCC signal input.  This is how I originally tested the all the Digikeijs with no ill effect.  If that doesn't work, I will try to shorten the pulse length, which means programming CV238 - 253.  That may be a bit of a challenge.  The pulse length is about 3/4 of a second by default, so I could try reducing it to about 1/4 of a second.  Anyway, KBO.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 01, 2017, 10:30:29 am
I'm not planning on doing anything in the train shed today.  However, I did go down and check it this morning and took a picture that I had originally intended to take on Friday.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-010117102222.jpeg)

The black objects on the underside of the board are the Seep point motors.  The latest one to blow is the one on the right.  If you look carefully towards the bottom left, you will be able to see the corner of the upended Digikeijs with two wires from the program track.  What I forgot to say yesterday was that I tried to reprogram the pulse width on Output 48, but the whole thing stopped working.  The instructions indicate that the address might need reprogramming afterwards so, in the end, I tried that and it came back to life again.  It was such a depressing day that I completely forgot about that incident when I wrote my log.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on January 01, 2017, 08:58:31 pm
I know how you feel when things go wrong, it has happened to me enough. I am sure you resolve the problem in the end, I just leave it for a while and do something else.. When that goes wrong too I go back to the original problem.....he...he.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 01, 2017, 09:20:19 pm
I know how you feel when things go wrong, it has happened to me enough. I am sure you resolve the problem in the end, I just leave it for a while and do something else.. When that goes wrong too I go back to the original problem.....he...he.

 :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: themadhippy on January 01, 2017, 09:27:08 pm
could the point motor problem be down to  back emf ?no idea if the digikeijs have  protection against it or not
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 02, 2017, 06:44:02 am
could the point motor problem be down to  back emf ?no idea if the digikeijs have  protection against it or not
It's possible because I have been running them on the upper limit of 18v.  However, the back EMF would normally be a problem after release, but it seems that when the problem occurs, the output simply goes to a permanent high voltage state.  When I get back in there, I will will try using the DCC signal voltage for the power and see if that cures the problem.  In any case, I might invest in a 12v 3A supply for the Digikeijs.  If that doesn't cure the fault then I will have to consider abandoning the Digikeijs and buying another type of decoder.  The Gaugemaster one should be suited to the Seep point motors, but I will need a lot of them.

I spent some of yesterday working on mapping the route sequence from the operating timetable to a switch sequence for individual points.  If this turns out (forgive the pun) to be reasonable simple, it will be a Plan B for the problem, should it be related to routes.  However, the last failure was nothing to do with routes, so that may be a red herring.  But it gives me something to do when I'm too depressed to work in the train shed. :uneasy:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 02, 2017, 12:10:34 pm
 :hellosign: Keep your chin up Laurence , you are making excellent progress & I am sure the electrics will come good soon
      regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Snowwolflair on January 02, 2017, 12:32:56 pm
Why DC? as AC if it uses a thyristor would allow it to switch off every cycle.  With DC they would lock on which is what it is doing.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 02, 2017, 12:58:23 pm
Why DC? as AC if it uses a thyristor would allow it to switch off every cycle.  With DC they would lock on which is what it is doing.
Thanks for the comment and suggestion.  Both Digikeijs and Seep claim that it makes no difference whether you use AC or DC.  I take your point about the effect of a thyristor, but I'm not aware of any low voltage thyristors, although it is many years since I was involved in electronics.  Of course, if they use a a 4-layer device as an output switch, that would do the trick.  However, my next ploy is to revert back to the DCC signal bus for the power source, which is the mode I used to set up the Digikeijs.  This is of course AC, at least after a fashion.  In fact it's a low frequency switched digital signal, but it has the same effect as a 14v AC supply when used as a power source.  I could look for a 12v AC supply (essentially a transformer).  That's what I looked for in the beginning, but it probably means using an uncased transformer, which I would rather avoid, if possible.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: themadhippy on January 02, 2017, 01:15:27 pm
i dont think it will make any diffidence to the decoders whether  you use AC rather than DC as id guess the first thing the power does is go through a diode or 2 to get DC regardless of what its fed with.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 02, 2017, 06:35:42 pm
Well, Iíve made some progress today, intellectually, if not physically.  First I bootstrapped the power input to the Digikeijs power bus to the MAIN output of the DCC controller.  I was then able to reprogram the decoder address.  Previously I had programmed it to 42 in an effort to understand what was going on.  It took a little doing because the Digikeijs and the Gaugemaster DCC02 manuals give conflicting information about programming the address.  I programmed them all some time ago, after a bit of jiggery pokrey (forgive the spelling, but the correct spelling causes the upload to crash!), but I had quite forgotten how to do it.  Anyway, I am now happy with the process (after a fashion, anyway).  I then changed the faulty Seep and tried to operate them all.  The Seeps all activate OK, but the output from the Digikeijs is not man enough to change the points over against the resistance of the spring.  But I did settle one thing.  Even with AC (sort of) connected to the power bus, the output to the Seep is still DC.  In this configuration, the pulse amplitude measures about 6.4v, so that seems to be the problem with the power deficiency.  I then tried 9v DC, but that was slightly worse, probably because the Digikeijs requires 12 Ė 18v to operate satisfactorily.  Finally, I reconnected the 18v to check if it was simply insufficient output.  I only tried one point, not wishing to damage any more Seeps, but it whacked across without any problem.  So I think I need to find a more appropriate power source.
   
I have been asked to return the Collett Goods, so I will send it off tomorrow.  So thatís another positive outcome.  I guess the thing to do now is to get on with connecting all the dropper wires on the board and finish laying the track.  By the time I have done that, I may have a replacement Digikeijs and, with any luck, I will have tracked down an appropriate power supply.

PS:  I have now ordered a 15v AC 8A power supply intended for a lap top.  It is compatible with Toshiba Satellite & Qosmio laptops requiring up to 15V 8A.  I will simply have to cut off the plug and connect the wires via barrier strip. :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 03, 2017, 06:55:52 pm
I have started mapping the routes to a points-based operating schedule.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-030117185256.png)

The settings highlighted in green are the ones to be applied to set the route.  It is only necessary to change those that are in the wrong position, as opposed to setting the whole route.

Meanwhile, I have been working in the train shed connecting all the droppers to the DCC bus.  I still have a couple of more droppers to install yet, but otherwise it is all done.  I am now concentrating on inserting sleepers where the points connect and the sleepers were removed to allow the connectors to be fitted.  I didnít have the spare joiners, designed for the job, when I laid the points.  In fact, I wasnít even aware of their existence.  But Iím getting on quite well with it, and should be finished soon so that I can get on with laying the rest of the track.  More pictures to follow soon.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 04, 2017, 09:47:57 pm
Today was much more encouraging on the whole, although still with one or two ups and downs.  The first good sign was that the postman delivered two packages at lunchtime.  The first was about the right size for it to be the 15v 8A power supply that I ordered and, indeed, it turned out to be the case.  The second was much smaller and, at first, I was at a loss to think what could be in it.  It turned out to be the 3mm router that I had ordered before Christmas, with a long lead time.  So long that I had forgotten about it.

So, after a few chores, it was off to the train shed with the packages.  I first tried out the router on a spare piece of ply and it worked quite well, although it required more effort than I had expected, probably because I was using a hand operated battery drill rather that the drilling machine that it was designed for.  But it was a big improvement on drills and needle files.  Then I cut off the output plug from the power supply and connected it to the power bus via a barrier strip connector.  But when I tried out the points there was nothing.  I disconnected the power supply, but then I noticed the DCC walkaround display was flashing on and off.  I had a look at the base station and the green light was also flashing.  I trawled through my memory banks of the controller instruction manual and remembered that, if there was a short circuit the lamp would flash.  So I just had to locate the short circuit.

I checked the resistance between the black and red bus wires.  The meter indicated a short circuit.  I tried disconnecting one of the droppers, but to no effect.  I tried the second and the short disappeared.  So I knew I was in the right area.  I made a number of tests and then realised that the problem was associated with the last point motor to be replaced.  In the end, it emerged that I had connected up the auxiliary switch incorrectly, so the short appeared when the points were in the turnout position.  I was able to unsolder the leads and connect them in the correct configuration.  After that, I tested all of the points with the new power supply and everything appeared to be OK.  I havenít tried configuring them into a route yet.

After that, I spent quite a time fitting all the sleepers under the connectors.  I used a lick of Copydex on the back or each and fiddled them into place using a pair of angleĖnosed pliers and the blade of a small screwdriver.  It was quite laborious and required a lot of patience, but I got there eventually.  Then I laid two short sections of track with droppers attached.  It was a bit fiddly, but I managed it in the end.  I had a couple of frustrating episodes where joiners came adrift and to be refitted by means of the angle nosed pliers and a short section of track that I have earmarked for the purpose.  Thereís just one short section with droppers to lay and then, when Iíve connected all the droppers and tested everything, I can screw the board down and lay the rest of the track.  Then, at long last I can move on to the central station board. :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 04, 2017, 10:14:17 pm
Overall a successful day methinks, Laurence.
Chalk one up to you :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 04, 2017, 10:22:20 pm
Now adding the replacement Peco sleepers is something I can understand, Laurence. For some reason, some of mine ended up lower than the ones fixed to the rails so I half covered them with ballast as if newly laid. I used angle-nosed pliers and the same white glue I used to glue the track down as well as the wooden walkway 'boards; and, diluted, to glue down scatter.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 05, 2017, 07:53:34 pm
Now adding the replacement Peco sleepers is something I can understand, Laurence. For some reason, some of mine ended up lower than the ones fixed to the rails so I half covered them with ballast as if newly laid. I used angle-nosed pliers and the same white glue I used to glue the track down as well as the wooden walkway 'boards; and, diluted, to glue down scatter.
The replacement sleepers under the joiners are no problem if they are installed when the track is laid, because they can easily be slid under the rails before they are stuck down.  In such cases, I simply ensure I have extended the Copydex layer far enough to stick the sleepers.  However, where the track had already been laid, I had to cut off the ends, locate the middle section between the rails and then slide in the ends from the outside.  Very fiddly!

Today, I finished installing all the droppers for the left hand station board.  The final one was a big challenge.  I had originally intended to add the droppers to the end of a curved section.  I have been using Peco power feed joiners, which is a convenient method to avoid soldering droppers directly to the rails.  I am checking the resistance between adjacent sections to ensure that the connections are sound.  But the last, curved section proved very stubborn.  In order to fit a connector to a rail that has been cut with a Xuron flexible track cutter, it is necessary to file the cut very carefully.  This includes using an edge cutting needle file along the groove into which the connector slides.  In the case of the curved track end, I gave up after trying three black droppers.  I was eventually able to rescue the third one and use it on a short section of straight track, followed by joining the curved section to it.  Hopefully, I will be able to rescue the others, although I think I have more than enough to finish the whole layout.

Tomorrow I hope to be able to connect all four outstanding droppers to the DCC bus and then test all the laid track using the 57XX, which is a conveniently small loco for the task.  So, technically, tomorrow will be the first day of real live running, albeit in a testing capacity.  Once done, I will screw down the board and finish laying the track across the joins, after which I will cut the track at the joins so that I can lift the adjoining boards to install the points and droppers.  I think the replacement Digikeijs may arrive tomorrow because I had a card through the door to say that Hermes had tried to deliver a parcel and would try again in the morning.  If thatís the case, I should be able to install it and finalise all the electrical connections on the board at the same time. :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on January 06, 2017, 07:50:01 am
:jealous:

So am I  :jealous:


                                            :A1Tornado:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on January 06, 2017, 07:53:31 am
I don't have any more pics yet, but I have attached a PDF of the shed design.  I hope it works.

That is some shed    :jealous:

                                                      :A1Tornado:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 06, 2017, 05:16:40 pm
Testing

Today was a good news/bad news day, although the bad news was not very bad and the good news encouraging.  First, as I suspected, the parcel that was not delivered yesterday turned out to be the replacement and spare Digikeijs accessory decoders, so I am now in a position to replace the faulty one and install an additional one, if required.  So, that was good news item number one.

I have finished connecting all the droppers.  I have decided that for the head and tail shunts, I will not use insulated joiners but normal metal connectors.  I have not connected the shunts via droppers and they rely on the points being switched to provide power to the rails.  Thus, if there is a loco in the shunt and the points are set against exit, there will be no power and so the loco cannot move until the points are switched.  This should prevent silly errors resulting in derailment or even short circuit (although the controller is short circuit protected).  I checked all the rail pairs with a meter and confirmed that the power was connected to all parts of the track.  Good news item number two.

I checked that all the sections were working correctly by running the 57XX along every section of track that had been laid.  So far, so good.  I then decided to have a go at reprogramming the four points into a route to see if there would be any problems using the new 15v supply.  The bad news is that, when more than 2 or 3 points are connected into the same route via the same decoder, there appears to be insufficient power to drive them all over and one always fails to switch in at least one direction.  This was the bad news item.  But itís not too bad because I am already well into remapping the route settings onto individual point operations.  It may still be possible to use routes if I change the route mappings slightly so that no more than 2 points are switch by the same decoder.  That is something I will have to investigate later.  But this may indicate that, when I was using 18v, the current drawn by four Seeps may have been too much for the Digikeijs, causing one of the outputs to blow.  So for now, I have abandoned the route grouping and I will use individual points until I can investigate the effect of spreading the load between different decoders.  It is unlikely that the insufficiency of power is caused by the new power supply because it is rated at 8A, which should easily switch several Seeps.

After that I decided to run a real train test and assembled the branch line train hauled by the 57XX, which was already on the track.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-060117161817.jpeg)

The first picture shows the train negotiating the crossover complex from the milk platform towards the UP main.  The next picture shows the same location, but looking from the front of the train.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-060117161842.jpeg)

The coloured pins you can see in the pictures are holding down the newly laid track that I had just laid for the head shunt.  Here it is again, on the curve of the Up main.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-060117161915.jpeg)

And here it has reversed onto the UP main platform line.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-060117161944.jpeg)

The branch train is supposed to be hauled by the 64XX, so I dug this out of my train box and tested it on the crossover complex and UP main.  Here it is alongside the 57XX hauled train.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/3091-060117162019.jpeg)

Apologies for the picture quality, but I'm using my mobile phone and I haven't set up the lighting for photos yet, I trying to get the best light for working, peering through my reading specs at the tiny components
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 06, 2017, 05:58:44 pm
Thanks for the latest update, Laurence. Very good to see some pictures of trains. Later, I would advise investigating replacing some of the couplings with shorter ones, particularly between the two B Set coaches. The appearance is much enhanced. Of course, you have to ensure that your stock will still negotiate your sharpest curves.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 06, 2017, 06:58:39 pm
I was going to say something about the couplings, but all the other info swamped it.  Yes they do need shortening, but at the moment I am concentrating on getting the track down and completing the layout.  After 30 years away from N gauge, I am a bit out of touch with things like NEM pockets.  I notice that quite a lot of the ready to run stock comes with additional couplings, so I assume they may be more to scale.  Once I get all the trains running, I can concentrate on those sort of details.  However, I would also like to get on with the platforms and buildings.  And then there's the scenery.  But it's a case of trying to make steady progress, slow though it may be.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 06, 2017, 07:03:12 pm
I was going to say something about the couplings, but all the other info swamped it.  Yes they do need shortening, but at the moment I am concentrating on getting the track down and completing the layout.  After 30 years away from N gauge, I am a bit out of touch with things like NEM pockets.  I notice that quite a lot of the ready to run stock comes with additional couplings, so I assume they may be more to scale.  Once I get all the trains running, I can concentrate on those sort of details.  However, I would also like to get on with the platforms and buildings.  And then there's the scenery.  But it's a case of trying to make steady progress, slow though it may be.

I quite understand, Laurence. John (Claverdon) is 'my' coupling expert. Close coupling is much easier with the latest stock. If your B Set is a new one I think it has the latest style (NEM?) coupling pockets?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 06, 2017, 07:42:27 pm
I quite understand, Laurence. John (Claverdon) is 'my' coupling expert. Close coupling is much easier with the latest stock. If your B Set is a new one I think it has the latest style (NEM?) coupling pockets?
Thanks Chris.  Actually it's not a B set, but a suburban composite and a suburban brake end.

I forgot to mention another point (excuse the pun that is about to come).  I cut down the Seep point operating rods as far as I could, but they still fouled the 57XX.  I had to make a second, really low, cut, cutting off some of the plastic peg on the point operating slider to prevent the fouling.  It only fouled when the point was in the position where the rod was closest to the rails.  But they are all OK now.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 07, 2017, 06:20:43 pm
Today was a mainly good day.  There was just the one mishap, but I hope I will be able to sort it out at some future date.  After yesterdayís discourse about the couplings, I took a look at one of the couplings on the brake end.  I twisted it in its mounting and it came out.  That shouldnít have been a problem, but the tiny spring popped out.  I picked up with a small pair of snipe nosed pliers to put it back but suddenly it wasnít there.  I looked everywhere, but I couldnít find it.  So I put the coupling back, minus the spring and will have to sort it out when it becomes a problem.  But otherwise everything went well today.

First I replaced the damaged Digikeijs and programmed it successfully.  I have now found a simple way to do this and it works well.  I connected all the outputs to the correct points.  I tested all the connected points and they worked perfectly.  At this point I was able to screw down the board, carefully checking the alignment at the joins.  I have now laid the branch line curve in the UP direction and both main platform tracks.  I am finding it easier to fit the spare sleepers under the connectors and also the power feed joiners.  I guess itís just practice makes perfect (or at least, less imperfect).  Hereís the latest state of play.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-070117151232.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 07, 2017, 09:09:56 pm
I think, as you say, practice makes perfect, Laurence, and I'm glad things are sorting themselves out for you as I was getting worried for you following the few setbacks.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 08, 2017, 11:02:21 am
Thanks for the latest updates, Laurence. I'm glad that you're making steady progress despite a few setbacks. Everyone has to learn as they go along no matter how much research and planning is done before hand, ultimately, it always comes down to 'learning by doing' and I'm sure that your layout will be excellent in every respect. (Which is more than I can say for Cant Cove but it IS far better than my first N Gauge layout over 40 years ago!).

I look forward to seeing your layout develop during 2017.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 08, 2017, 05:37:14 pm
I have finished all the track on the left hand station board and run the 2-6-4T with its suburban coaches on all the tracks.  I have solved the coupling problem by avoiding it.  The last coach will always be the last coach and therefore requires no coupling.  In fact the end couplings all look a little ugly and so it is my intention to remove all the last couplings and all the loco front couplings, when I get round to it.  The only loco to retain its front coupling will be the branch loco, which has to run around the train to changer from UP to DOWN.  If I have a station pilot at some time in the future, that will keep its front coupling as well.  Here you see a picture of the completed board (electrics and track only) with the suburban train sitting in what will be platform 2.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-080117171502-47055961.jpeg)

I have taken my courage in both hands and cut the rails at the join between the left hand board and the central board.  I've tested the rail joins with a bogie coach and it seems OK.  Clearly, when I screw down the centre board again, I will need to ensure that the joins still give a smooth ride.  I'll face that hurdle when I get there.  In the meantime, I have drilled the holes for the next Seep using my template, so next up will be connecting the droppers and wiring the Seep.  Then it will be on with the rest of the central board points.

I may have a novel solution to the route problem.  First I will have to ascertain whether or not  I can switch more complicated routes providing no more than two points are switched by a single Digikeijs.  If that turns out to be the case, I can use my spare Digikeijs to split up the points so that no route requires more than two points connected to one Seep at the same time.  I already have a solution for the storage loops. It only requires two points to be swapped on each set of loops.  I wonít be able to tell whether this will work until I have installed a few more points on different decoders.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 08, 2017, 05:41:07 pm
Looks good.
Very good idea to test it with a 2-6-4 as if anything is going to derail it will be the front bogie wheels.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on January 08, 2017, 09:44:35 pm
Looking good Laurence, you have achieved more than me this year already. I need to do more on my layout. All the best for this new year.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on January 09, 2017, 06:42:48 am
Love the way you work things out Laurence. Your layout is looking brilliant, i love the long runs.     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 09, 2017, 06:40:04 pm
I installed the first turnout into the goods depot today.  It is Accessory 33, but if the strategy of using an extra Digikeijs works, it will become Accessory 51.  However, I donít see any point (ugh!) in changing the wiring design until I have proved that the revised strategy will work.  I didnít get very far today and I had a slight disaster, partly by design.  I decided that I needed to revise my method of connecting the frog droppers and so experimented with the points designated as Accessory 33.  This involved cutting a section out of the self-adhesive cork underlay and connecting the dropper to the wire within the points that connects the two halves of the frog.  I have used this connection method before without removing the section of underlay, but it is difficult to get the points to sit down correctly on the underlay unless you can align the dropper connection point exactly with the hole in the baseboard.  The idea of removing the section of underlay was to allow sufficient space beneath the points for the insulated wire, so that it would not matter if the hole was not exactly in the right place.  You can see what I did to make more space in the picture.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-090117172054.jpeg)

I left a spare length of dropper wire protruding from the hole so that it is clearly visible. 
It would have worked well but for the fact that, on this occasion, the dropper would not connect satisfactorily with the wire on the points.  The plastic infrastructure of the points kept melting and preventing a good connection.  On the four previous points, this never happened.  So I decided to connect directly to the frog.  I had tried this before, but the solder always fouled the joiners and had to be removed carefully.  It occurred to me that I could try removing the next set of sleepers.  The only problem with this is that there is then insufficient support for the frog and, when the frog was heated, it moved and proved impossible to relocate into correct alignment.  I do have a plan for resurrecting that set of points but, for the moment, they have been consigned to the bin reserved for damaged items.  However, I was able to use the original technique successfully on a second set of points.  It has now occurred to me that it might be better to connect with bare TCW and connect it to an insulated length of wire once through the baseboard.

However, the points are now installed and I have been carrying out the preparatory work in readiness for adding the second set of points.  Hopefully I will be able to finish installing them tomorrow and move on to the goods yard.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on January 09, 2017, 10:41:18 pm
Hi Laurence, I found scratching the frog wire with a craft knife and then using some liquid flux made it easier to solder the drop wire. Also try to get the hole in the correct place but I usually make the top of the hole large, like countersunk so it gives you a bit of room for manoeuvring the point. Nice to see you are making progress.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 10, 2017, 06:54:43 pm
Hi Laurence, I found scratching the frog wire with a craft knife and then using some liquid flux made it easier to solder the drop wire. Also try to get the hole in the correct place but I usually make the top of the hole large, like countersunk so it gives you a bit of room for manoeuvring the point. Nice to see you are making progress.
Thanks for the tips and hints, Chris.  Most useful.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 10, 2017, 07:26:22 pm
I only managed to install a single point today.  There havenít been any major issues, but a few hiccups.  I put the point in position and used my template to create the drilling positions for the Seep.  I raised the frog wire slightly above the point infrastructure so I could solder the dropper to it without melting the plastic.  So far, so good.  I cut away a section of the points underlay to allow the dropper to sit under the points without raising the level of the points above the baseboard.  I then used the 3mm router to enlarge the point rod hole to allow plenty of room for normal operation.  I fitted the spare sleepers and affixed the points with Copydex.  Then I installed the Seep.  To my chagrin, the Seep would not switch the point blades satisfactorily.  This led to some investigatory work.

My first thought was that the positions of the holes from the template were inaccurate.  I readjusted the Seep by fiddling, but to no effect.  I tried routing the point lever hole from the underside, in case there was some obstruction, all to no avail.  In the end, I decided that I would have to lift the points and use the router from the top side of the board.  When I lifted the points, I noticed a significant amount of Copydex in the vicinity of the point operating slider, so I removed it.  I carried on with the router, but I think the Copydex was the culprit.  The slider moved OK before I removed the Copydex, but I suspect the extra resistance was enough to prevent the Seep from operating the points successfully.  Unfortunately, while all this was going on, the baseboard fell from its propped position.  I the discovered that it had significantly bent the Seep operating rod, so the points would still not operate.  After several attempts, using two pairs of pliers, I was able to straighten the operating rod and the points then operated correctly.  Phew!

With all this going on, I forgot to install power droppers to the toe end of the points.  However, I have now installed a short section of track attached to the toe end and I will be able to install the droppers at the far end of this section.  I have connected all the droppers to the DCC bus and tested all the sections of track with the 2-6-4T.  So, although the progress was slow, at least everything worked in the end
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: weave on January 10, 2017, 08:00:23 pm
Hi Laurence,

Glad all worked out in the end (sort of).

I might have said before but although I know nothing about DCC and don't know what you're talking about half the time (not you, the DCC  :)) you seem to fill me with inspiration if things go wrong.

You're not the only one for inspiration but that's what's great about the forum, to keep going and sort problems rather than giving up.

If my board had fallen over at that point it would probably be in the garden!

Keep up the good work and look forward to more trains and scenery (that I can understand)

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 10, 2017, 08:24:23 pm
I can only echo what Weave has said.
DCC is a complete bewilderment to me but I admire your persistence.
Im also very much looking forward to seeing the scenery develop and trains running throug it.
Martin
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Snowwolflair on January 10, 2017, 08:28:23 pm
If women were as interesting as model railways , DCC would be the very high maintenance blond in the corner. 8)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 10, 2017, 09:42:31 pm
If women were as interesting as model railways, DCC would be the very high-maintenance blonde in the corner. 8)

But the performance would be great! 8-)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Snowwolflair on January 10, 2017, 09:43:47 pm
If women were as interesting as model railways, DCC would be the very high-maintenance blonde in the corner. 8)

But the performance would be great! 8-)

Only if you know what you are doing  :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 11, 2017, 06:38:08 am
If women were as interesting as model railways, DCC would be the very high-maintenance blonde in the corner. 8)

But the performance would be great! 8-)

Only if you know what you are doing  :goggleeyes:
It's actually much simpler than DC.  You don't need any sections and you can still operate the points by any means that takes your fancy, or even manually, if required.  The great beauty, though, is that you can control everything from one controller of ir there are three of you, you could have three controllers, one each, and everyone could still drive anything (although you would have to agree who controls what, otherwise there could be mayhem).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on January 11, 2017, 07:25:12 am
Perhaps true Laurence. Like modern cars loaded with computer control coming out your ears, provided everything is working OK things are jake. Heaven help you if things go wrong. I recently had a DCC sound equipped loco emit a cloud of smoke when a chip failed suddenly for no good reason. The loco is now DC. It seems to me that with 15 V AC being continuously applied to the loco with DCC, the potential of bad things happening is much greater than the occasional ramping up to 12 V that occurs in a DC powered locomotive. Continuing with Snowwolflair's analogy, the blond in the corner is more likely to have a boyfriend in the underworld. DCC is living a fair bit more dangerously than living with DC.

I have a DCC capability on my layout, but it is primarily to support my few sound equipped locos. I like it, but I don't trust it.

Webbo
 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on January 11, 2017, 07:39:13 am
Perhaps true Laurence. Like modern cars loaded with computer control coming out your ears, provided everything is working OK things are jake. Heaven help you if things go wrong. I recently had a DCC sound equipped loco emit a cloud of smoke when a chip failed suddenly for no good reason. The loco is now DC. It seems to me that with 15 V AC being continuously applied to the loco with DCC, the potential of bad things happening is much greater than the occasional ramping up to 12 V that occurs in a DC powered locomotive. Continuing with Snowwolflair's analogy, the blond in the corner is more likely to have a boyfriend in the underworld. DCC is living a fair bit more dangerously than living with DC.

I have a DCC capability on my layout, but it is primarily to support my few sound equipped locos. I like it, but I don't trust it.

Webbo
 

I am a bit like you Webbo, just doing DCC on the new layout and it is great but, it can be temperamental, i had power to all the track then i switched a point for a train to go to the station and it got to the point and stopped, it worked before but now havenít got a clue what has happened and i wonít get it sorted until i can get to the shed at some point and sort it. But other then that i really like the fact you can have more people or even oneself operating lots of locos.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 11, 2017, 08:21:24 am
I chose DCC, having had no prior experience of using DCC, simply so that I could control locomotives independently without having any track sections including the ability to double-head trains. (There was one combined passenger train with a Bulleid Light Pacific and an ex-WR pannier tank that was double-headed in 1962 which I wanted to run). The improved ability for slow-speed running, e.g. shunting, is also important for me.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on January 11, 2017, 08:47:59 am
I chose DCC, having had no prior experience of using DCC, simply so that I could control locomotives independently without having any track sections including the ability to double-head trains. (There was one combined passenger train with a Bulleid Light Pacific and an ex-WR pannier tank that was double-headed in 1962 which I wanted to run). The improved ability for slow-speed running, e.g. shunting, is also important for me.

i like the fact also about slow running is better with DCC and it looks more realistic, i am completely new to modelling trains just under 12 months now and it gets better and better the more i learn ( or try to ) about the hobby. I wish i had took it up years ago when i could afford it more, but that is for another thread.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on January 11, 2017, 08:52:40 am
My track sections are defined by the setting of my points. My layout is very simple so DCC has zero advantage in this respect. I'm running triple headed trains at the moment with all the same locomotive type and this is dead simple with DC. These locos all have dual flywheels and together with the momentum of the train, the slow speed performance is just as good with DC as it is with DCC. Things are more complicated with DCC as the combination of locomotives has to be set up as a consist. The counterbalancing benefit of DCC is that the headlights are only lit on the leading locomotive and if I hit the horn or bell buttons, it is only the leading locomotive that makes a noise. 

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 11, 2017, 09:18:07 am
I guess that, in the end, it all comes down to personal preference and what you're happy with.  I wouldn't want to suggest to anyone that they convert to a system unless they are totally happy with it.  In my case, I have worked in the fields of digital electronics and computational physics, so I see DCC as the system for me.  In days before DCC, I designed and built a digital, inertia-based acceleration and deceleration system, complete with regulator, steam cutoff and brake controls.   But if it's not for you, stick to what you feel comfortable with.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 11, 2017, 07:04:19 pm
I made less progress than I had hoped today but, because of other commitments, I was only able to spend less than two hours in the train shed today.  I did think I might finish installing the first point in the goods yard, but I found I needed to make some minor modifications to the track layout, so that curtailed my point installation.  The fist problem I encountered was that I had not got the curvature quite right for the short linking piece of track that connected the goods yard to the goods shed loop.  So I had quite a bit of fiddling to try and align it better.  The preparation of the point and the Seep mounting went quite smoothly for a change.  I think I have got the process well characterised now.  I pinned the point in position and drilled a 1mm hole through the operating slider.  I then used my template to drill the 1mm holes through the baseboard to mark the positions of the fixing screws for the Seep.  After that, I lifted the point and levered the frog wire of away from the plastic infrastructure, tinned it and attached the frog dropper.  I also marked the area of the cork underlay to be cut away and made the cut-out, followed by drilling a 2mm hole in the baseboard for the dropper.  I enlarged the point rod hole with a 4mm drill and used the 3mm router to turn the hole into a slot.  I replaced the point, complete with dropper, fitted the Seep to the underside of the baseboard, and checked the operation of the point together with the symmetrical movement of the Seep.  Everything went according to plan.

While I was considering the extension from the point into the goods yard, I noticed that the second goods yard point was fouled, not by a cross member, but by a longitudinal member under the board.  I had carefully checked the positions of the cross members when I laid out the original tracks, but when I made the late addition of the goods yard, I failed to check the longitudinals.  This meant that I had to move the second point further into the goods yard, so there could only be one further point instead of the original two.  So I had to peel of the self adhesive cork underlay and refit the underlay to suit the new arrangement.  The original idea was for there to be a siding for a livestock dock, another for the coal yard and one for crane operations.  Under the revised scheme, the crane operations can be transferred to the yard side of the bay platform.  There is no platform on the yard side, so the crane should be fine there.

Anyway, after all this unplanned activity, I was able to stick down the first yard point and check that the movement was not impeded by the Copydex.  I cut the extension rails for the goods yard, one for the bay platform and one to connect with the second yard point.  So I now have to solder the wiring loom to the Seep and connect the auxiliary switch.  Itís slow progress, but at least itís progress.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on January 12, 2017, 07:45:58 am
I made less progress than I had hoped today but, because of other commitments, I was only able to spend less than two hours in the train shed today.  I did think I might finish installing the first point in the goods yard, but I found I needed to make some minor modifications to the track layout, so that curtailed my point installation.  The fist problem I encountered was that I had not got the curvature quite right for the short linking piece of track that connected the goods yard to the goods shed loop.  So I had quite a bit of fiddling to try and align it better.  The preparation of the point and the Seep mounting went quite smoothly for a change.  I think I have got the process well characterised now.  I pinned the point in position and drilled a 1mm hole through the operating slider.  I then used my template to drill the 1mm holes through the baseboard to mark the positions of the fixing screws for the Seep.  After that, I lifted the point and levered the frog wire of away from the plastic infrastructure, tinned it and attached the frog dropper.  I also marked the area of the cork underlay to be cut away and made the cut-out, followed by drilling a 2mm hole in the baseboard for the dropper.  I enlarged the point rod hole with a 4mm drill and used the 3mm router to turn the hole into a slot.  I replaced the point, complete with dropper, fitted the Seep to the underside of the baseboard, and checked the operation of the point together with the symmetrical movement of the Seep.  Everything went according to plan.

While I was considering the extension from the point into the goods yard, I noticed that the second goods yard point was fouled, not by a cross member, but by a longitudinal member under the board.  I had carefully checked the positions of the cross members when I laid out the original tracks, but when I made the late addition of the goods yard, I failed to check the longitudinals.  This meant that I had to move the second point further into the goods yard, so there could only be one further point instead of the original two.  So I had to peel of the self adhesive cork underlay and refit the underlay to suit the new arrangement.  The original idea was for there to be a siding for a livestock dock, another for the coal yard and one for crane operations.  Under the revised scheme, the crane operations can be transferred to the yard side of the bay platform.  There is no platform on the yard side, so the crane should be fine there.

Anyway, after all this unplanned activity, I was able to stick down the first yard point and check that the movement was not impeded by the Copydex.  I cut the extension rails for the goods yard, one for the bay platform and one to connect with the second yard point.  So I now have to solder the wiring loom to the Seep and connect the auxiliary switch.  Itís slow progress, but at least itís progress.

Thank you Laurence for your update, you have a good knowledge of electrics it seems and you are well on your way with your layout, can we have some more  :photospleasesign: we love to see them.   :thankyousign:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 12, 2017, 08:45:16 am
I also look forward to seeing more train pictures as soon as you've got enough trackwork completed to your satisfaction, Laurence.

This summer, it would be nice to see some special trains to Cornwall (and back) for the locals to enjoy a holiday by the sea. Probably BR Lined Maroon Standard (later Mark 1) and Collett design coaches?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 12, 2017, 10:14:59 am
I also look forward to seeing more train pictures as soon as you've got enough trackwork completed to your satisfaction, Laurence.

This summer, it would be nice to see some special trains to Cornwall (and back) for the locals to enjoy a holiday by the sea. Probably BR Lined Maroon Standard (later Mark 1) and Collett design coaches?
The period I'm modelling pretty well predates maroon livery.  By 1959, some of the Stanier pacifics were maroon and the Caledonian was 8 maroon coaches pulled by a maroon Princess Coronation.  It made a fine site and completed the 401 mile journey between Euston and Glasgow Central in 6 hours and 40 minutes in each direction.  That's an AVERAGE speed of over 60 mph. 

However, some holiday specials would be good. I may acquire a Castle or/and a rebuilt Scott for the purpose.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on January 12, 2017, 11:10:39 am
Nice choice, a Castle!

Better get a pre-order in sharpish Laurence as I suspect those that have been waiting 3+ years (inc. me!) for it to arrive will be making quite long queues for a second one!

Dave G

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 12, 2017, 08:50:31 pm
I managed to get down to the train shed today for about an hour, although I didnít make much progress.  There was a big, but not unexpected, disappointment.  Now that I have two Digikeijs operational, I thought I would try including four points in a route, two on each Digikeijs.  Unfortunately, the route switching was not reliable.  Occasionally all four point would switch, but usually one and sometimes two would fail to switch.  Itís unlikely to be a lack of power because the power supply can deliver 8A.  So there are only two possibilities.  I noticed that when I programmed the routes, the controller sent a signal to each accessory as it was added to the route.  So there may be something intrinsic in the Prodigy Advance DCC system that prevents several points from operating at the same time.  Or it may be the combination of the Prodigy Advance and the Digikeijs.  If that is the case, then my contingency plan of switching each point individually before a set of trains run will have to be used, instead of setting the routes.  This should be no problem and it will actually be more like real life, where the levers in the lever frames would all have to be operated one by one.  Remember that the period modelled is before the use of electric points, at least in rural areas.

The other possibility is that the problem could be related to my point template.  I noticed that I had to adjust every Seep to the limit of movement allowed by the stand-off mounting block in order to get it to operate correctly.  When I investigated as I installed the sixth point, I found that the centre hole was 1mm out of alignment.  This may be responsible for the problem, although it is unlikely.  If the route test had gone well today, I had intended to install the additional Digikeijs and rearrange the point connections to give the required distribution of points within routes.  But I have now resolved to carry on with the original configuration.  If I later find that the revised template provides a working basis for reintroducing routes, then I can reconfigure the points as required.  Otherwise I will continue without using routes.

Well, with the disappointing news out of the way, I can say what I did achieve this morning.  I managed to wire up the point harness for the first goods yard turnout into the bay platform and fitted all the spare sleepers.  Once again, like the head and tail shunts, I am not using droppers and insulated joiners in the yard, but metal joiners with no droppers.  So each siding will only be active when the points are set correctly.  I hope to be able to make time tomorrow to connect the remaining point in the yard and connect all the droppers, so I can fully test the board and get it screwed down, ready to move on to the right hand station board.

There is one final bit of bad news/good news.  The other day, I had a great deal of difficulty snipping off a point rod with my cutters.  I foolishly tried to use my Xuron to finish the job, but I have since noticed a couple or small damage marks in the blades.  I have filed off the burrs and they are still OK for track cutting, but I sometimes have to adjust the position of the blades for trimming plastic.  So, it is a mistake to think that a Xuron is suitable for the point rods.  The good news bit is that I ordered a set of 22mm cutting/grinding discs for gemstones and these cut the rods effectively, although it takes a little time.  They are also excellent for removing any rough ends on rails, rather than filing.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 12, 2017, 09:48:58 pm
Oh dear :(
It's a shame you have found out the hard way not to use Xurons for anything else but cutting track - not even cutting fine wire :no:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on January 12, 2017, 10:53:06 pm
I also found out the hard way, but now I have a Xuron that can be used for cutting rail as well as stripping very fine wire. I still use mine for cutting brass, but cutting anything made of steel is a definite no-no no matter how thin it may be.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on January 13, 2017, 06:05:53 am
Thanks for the update. A bit of a disappointment having to change your routing plans.

Shame about the Xuron cutters. I was warned when I first bought my pair to not use them for anything other than cutting track.

Dare I suggest that you get yourself new set exclusively for trackwork to avoid any bad joins?

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 13, 2017, 06:41:18 am
Thanks for the update. A bit of a disappointment having to change your routing plans.

Shame about the Xuron cutters. I was warned when I first bought my pair to not use them for anything other than cutting track.

Dare I suggest that you get yourself new set exclusively for trackwork to avoid any bad joins?

Dave G
Fortunately, the damage is very slight and they still work fine for cutting track.  It's the fiddly plastic bits that sometimes don't cut properly, but it's no problem.  I guess I'll get a new pair eventually.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on January 13, 2017, 07:42:12 am
Thanks for the update. A bit of a disappointment having to change your routing plans.

Shame about the Xuron cutters. I was warned when I first bought my pair to not use them for anything other than cutting track.

Dare I suggest that you get yourself new set exclusively for trackwork to avoid any bad joins?

Dave G
Fortunately, the damage is very slight and they still work fine for cutting track.  It's the fiddly plastic bits that sometimes don't cut properly, but it's no problem.  I guess I'll get a new pair eventually.

Sometimes we make mistakes Laurence itís part of our natural being, but hopefully we learn from them and carry on. I know of a few people who have given up on things because they made mistakes. But i think we railway modellers are made of sterner stuff.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 13, 2017, 09:59:35 am
If it's any consolation at least you've prompted me to amend my 'Beginners Guide' in the Knowledge Bank, Laurence.
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on January 13, 2017, 10:17:41 am
Sorry to hear about your problems with your route selection. Have you thought about perhaps trying a slow action point motor,a tortoise or Cobalt for instance and see if they are better to use.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 13, 2017, 10:27:47 am
Hessle got a mention weather wise on the BBC news this morning so I hope you avoid any flooding issues, Laurence :worried:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 13, 2017, 11:04:46 am
Hessle got a mention weather wise on the BBC news this morning so I hope you avoid any flooding issues, Laurence :worried:
No flooding here.  I live in Cliff Top Lane.  The clue is in the name!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 13, 2017, 07:17:55 pm
I spent a few hours in the train shed today but, as usual, achieved far less than I had hoped.  Most of it was down to making silly mistakes which I should have been able to avoid because of previous efforts.  I will not bore everyone with a list of them all but the major one involved the final point in the goods yard.  You may remember that I had to re-plan the goods yard layout because Point 46 fouled a longitudinal board member.  I moved it and there was sufficient room for the Seep provided I mounted the Seep on the side furthest from the longitudinal member.  However, that was a few days ago.  When I came to install the Seep today, I forgot and mounted it on the near side, which is generally easier.  Of course, when I came to close everything down for testing, I found that the Seep was fouled by the longitudinal member.  So there was nothing for it but to move it.  I checked that everything worked in the new position and then fixed Point 46 in place.  However, when I came to close everything up the Point just would not change.  I checked everything but could not identify the cause.  So I resolved to revert to the original position and went into the garage for my coping saw.  I hacked a lump out of the longitudinal member and that fixed it.

After that I laid the board flat and abutted the tracks to those on the left hand station board.  They still aligned pretty well, but I have ordered some track pins to make sure they always line up correctly when I remove and replace a board.  I then checked the operation of all the installed points and tested all the tracks with the 2-6-4 tank.  It negotiated the board joins very well and, when I have screwed the board down and pinned the tracks, the joins should cause no running problems.  Apart from a few dead spots where the track needs cleaning everything works well and the points were all traversed in each direction.  However, I did come across an unexpected problem that I might have anticipated had I thought about it carefully.

I noticed that when the two yard points were set to ď1Ē (turnout), it created a short circuit on the DCC bus.  Itís not a serious problem because the controller can cope with shorts and just sits there flashing.  However, I decided that it needed proper, logical investigation.  I had first tried several things, but without identifying the cause.  So, after a cup of tea, I wrote myself a logic truth table and investigated all the combinations.  At first it made no sense, but then I realised that I had wired the frog on the second yard point with connections from the DCC bus instead of from the two rails feeding it.  So now, at least, I am in a position to fix it.  What I need to do is to insert two droppers from the feed rails and connect them to the Seep auxiliary switch.  This all comes about because I decided to dispense with insulated connectors to the frogs, which is a satisfactory solution if you remember that the feed rails are not fed from the DCC bus.

Anyway, apart from the need to make that minor correction I am all ready to screw down the centre station board and move on to the right hand board.  Once that is done, I might be able to spoof a few trains.  Apologies for no pictures again, but I was so busy that I forgot to take time out for pics. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 13, 2017, 07:22:21 pm
I'm very glad that despite setbacks and frustrations, things seems to be progressing reasonably well Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 13, 2017, 09:48:57 pm
I'm very glad that despite setbacks and frustrations, things seems to be progressing reasonably well Laurence.

Seconded! It all sounds far too complicated for me. All my points are hand-operated but the fiddleyard points could benefit from having point motors fitted, later, I have to admit.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 14, 2017, 06:44:56 am
Seconded! It all sounds far too complicated for me. All my points are hand-operated but the fiddleyard points could benefit from having point motors fitted, later, I have to admit.
As you've already got DCC installed, it would be fairly straight forward to fit an accessory decoder to operate the yard points.  It's just a question of making sure the point motors are in the correct position to operate the points correctly and then making sure that you buy a decoder the works with your DCC system and will operate the points satisfactorily.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 14, 2017, 06:56:48 am
Thanks, Laurence. I have a basic PowerCab. Fitting point motors in the fiddle yard (which is removable as it is mounted on a balsa wood 'deck') is something I'll consult with my landlord when he comes next weekend to complete the lighting wiring.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 14, 2017, 06:00:17 pm
Today was mainly a good day.  The only slight problem was caused by Hattons.  Yesterday, I ordered one or two items including two Peco Streamline code 55 left hand medium radius points, SL-E396F.  The order arrived today.  Unfortunately, two right hand curved points SL-E386F have been sent instead.  When I checked back to my October order, I discovered that 3 of the22 SL-E396F were in fact SL-E386F.  So now I have five points I neither ordered nor want.  Hattons have told me to return them and they will replace them, but it's all extra hassle.  Apart from that, everything went well.

I have sorted out the problem with the point switching in the goods yard.  The picture gives an idea of the problem.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-140117172535-47333527.jpeg)

I designated the right hand rails as Red and the left hand rails as Black.  As you can see, with the points switched as in the picture, both rails on the right hand branch from the nearest set of points should be connected to Red and so there should be no signal along that branch.  However, I have adopted the system of connecting the frog switching directly to the Red and Black DCC buses.  This is fine in the normal run of things, but in this case, when the furthest point is switched as shown, this connects the Black rail to the Red rail, hence the short circuit.  The problem was corrected by removing the black supply to the furthest frog switch and connecting it to a dropper from the far end of the left hand siding, as seen from the furthest point.  So all's now well and retested.

I thought I would show some trains, even though the layout is far from complete.  Here you see a shortened local goods entering the goods loop while a non-corridor train waits at the branch platform.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-140117172538-473341363.jpeg)

Here's the same scene from another angle.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-140117172524-473281745.jpeg)

And here, after a time warp, you can see the non-corridor train leaving Morton Hinmarch while the local goods approaches on the UP main.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-140117172534-47332594.jpeg)

I got all the track laid across the next board join and I am now ready to cut the track and lift the next board in preparation for installing the points.  This is how far I have got.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-140117172523-473282192.jpeg)

So I hope to start on the next board tomorrow.

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 14, 2017, 06:42:36 pm
Thanks for the latest update, Laurence, especially the train photos. Very good to see the trackwork progessing well. I didn't know that BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4Ts (as much as I like them) were seen in the Gloucestershire / Oxfordshire area though?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 14, 2017, 07:27:39 pm
Thanks for the latest update, Laurence, especially the train photos. Very good to see the trackwork progessing well. I didn't know that BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4Ts (as much as I like them) were seen in the Gloucestershire / Oxfordshire area though?
Their predecessors (Stanier, Fowler and Ivatt) were certainly seen in South Warwickshire and the location of Morton Hinmarch is somewhat vague, so I'm not being too pedantic about what can be seen where.  I actually grew up in touch the the Ex-LMS line to Birmingham and its branch lines and the Ex-GWR lint to Birmingham and its branch lines, so I don't mind a bit of mix and match.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 14, 2017, 08:10:54 pm
I wasn't sure of the actual geographical location, Laurence. Very late in the days of steam in Warwickshire, a BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4T could be seen. (The details are on John's Claverdon  thread.)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 14, 2017, 08:24:24 pm
In my earlier working days, I repaired televisions for a living.  I used to travel the highways and byways of South Northamptonshire, South Warwickshire, North Gloucestershire, East Worcestershire and North Oxfordshire.  I lived in Moreton-in-Marsh, but Morton Hinmarch could be anywhere in that area (and possibly in all those counties at once, if imagination is allowed to rule).  So I have some of the locos that ran on the Ex-Great Central, some Ex-LMS and some Ex-GWR, plus a few standard derivatives.  Morton Hinmarch is more about the general feeling of being in that area rather than actual historical accuracy. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 14, 2017, 09:07:52 pm
Thanks for the explanation, Laurence. Now, I understand.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 15, 2017, 06:36:05 am
At the end of yesterday, I came across one small problem, although it's probably not really a problem at all.  When I laid the track across the join between the centre board and the right hand board, I discovered that there was about 1mm difference in the height, the right hand board being the lower.  I investigated using an extra layer of cork underlay, but this was too thick and would have raised the track on the right hand board above the level of the centre board.  I don't think it will be too much of problem.  When I lift the right hand board, I will try laying a piece of underlay on top of the end frame and see if the pressure of screwing it down squashes it sufficiently to level the two boards.  If not, I will try some thin card (probably from a box or packet), so I should be able to get the thickness right and ensure the boards are level.  I will report after my next exploit.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 15, 2017, 05:39:59 pm
Today was a really good day and I have made positive progress.  I started by cutting the five tracks at the join between the centre board and the left hand station board.  I then lifted the board and fitted the temporary ply pieces to support it in the propped position.  I fixed a piece of cork underlay to the end frame of the left hand board to see if it would correct the 1mm difference in levels with the board screwed down.  When I screwed it down the levels were the same, so I had started well.

I then installed the first point of the goods loop exit crossover.  Before the installation I had to extend the goods loop a little so that it was the exact length to reach the point.  I remembered to fit the extra sleepers before fixing the track and it all went into place.  However, when I fitted the Seep, I found the movement was impeded.  I deduced that it was because the operating hole was impeding the Seep operating rod.  I was able to use the router to open up the hole on the underside of the board and then it all worked perfectly.  I soldered the frog dropper, after first removing the cork underlay beneath the frog and wired up the Seep.  I stuck down the point with Copydex, remembering to apply the Copydex to the underside of the point, thus avoiding the operating slider.  I tested the point and it worked like a dream.  So I am gradually getting the hang of it.

The second point presented an additional problem because I had not only to install the point but also to connect the DOWN main into the other route into the point.  First, I inserted the link track between the points and then I solved the problem by installing the extension of the DOWN main to the point as an extension of the point, so both were fitted into position together.  I had to keep them together for all the various stages of installation, but it all worked a treat.  So, by tea time, I had fitted and tested two points from scratch, which is a personal record.  After tea, I was able to fit together the two points of the milk loop access crossover, together with the short connectors linking with the track that had already been laid.  So now I am ready to install the whole crossover.  Because the two points actually connect together, it seems logical to carry out all the stages on both points simultaneously.  Hereís a picture taken at the end of a successful day.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-150117171421-47373648.jpeg)

The goods loop exit crossover is at the top left and the milk loop access crossover on the right.  It is just pinned into place at the moment, but I hope to be able to make better progress with the points in future.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 15, 2017, 07:19:26 pm
Glad to hear you've had a productive day, Laurence, and good to see progress
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 16, 2017, 08:02:31 am
One of the reasons that I managed to make good progress yesterday was that I found a foolproof method of ensuring the hole in the baseboard doesn't foul the Seep point rod.  What I do is to drill a 4mm hole centred on where the point lever is closest to the board.  The I drill another 4mm hole next to it to allow the point rod to move away from the point.  I use the 3.5mm router to ensure there is a clean hole with no ragged edges.  This results in a perfect operation of the Seep.  I have learned from experience that, with 9mm ply baseboards, smaller holes might be slightly out of perpendicular and so foul the Seep operating lever.  The only drawback is the presence of a 4mm hole next to point operating slider, but I am sure that I will be able to mask this when I come to ballast the track.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on January 16, 2017, 09:04:07 am
Always great when you come up with the right fix - most satisfying!

A carefully placed bit of masking or other tape will hopefully help save ballast falling through the small hole

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 16, 2017, 05:23:49 pm
I had another productive session this afternoon.  I fitted, wired and tested the two milk loop access crossover points that I had pinned into place yesterday.  All worked perfectly.  I could have made more progress but for an error when I first wired up the frames prior to fitting the top boards.  When I installed the original wiring harnesses for the points, I measured them to reach the appropriate set of points from each of the Digikeijs.  However, at that time, I had not considered the effect of lifting the boards to fit the Seep point motors.  The result is that I have had to replace some of the harnesses with new, longer ones.  Today was no exception.  The two points installed today required replacement harnesses and I have also replaced the ones for the last two points in the station complex, for the same reason.  After installing the points I then began the work on the next points, the branch end of the branch access crossover from the UP main.  I had to cut two very short sections of rail to join its toe to the toe of the milk loop crossover and use several spare sleepers beneath them.  It was a bit fiddly, but didn't cause any major problems.  Then I used my template and drilled the pilot holes for the next points.  I drilled out the slot for the point operating rod and fitted the Seep, which operates the points correctly (using a manual operation of the solenoids), but I havenít done any wiring yet.  I also moulded and cut to length the S-shaped section of track linking the two elements of the crossover.  So now I am ready to wire up the points and then complete the crossover.  I hope to be able to post more pictures tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 17, 2017, 06:48:36 am
I posted the five rogue points to Hattons yesterday morning.  Unfortunately, I have now found three more.  I picked up what I thought were two left hand points and put the top one down.  That was definitely a left hand point.   I then extracted the second from the packet and nipped off the spare sleepers.  When I came to position the point I realised that it was another rogue right hand curve. :doh:  I then checked every point carefully and found another two.  I have told Hattons, but I have not yet received a reply.  It's all a bit frustrating. :(
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 17, 2017, 07:30:43 am
Sorry to read about the point problems, Laurence. Normally, I find Hattons very reliable. It seems they need to check the work of their packers?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 17, 2017, 07:56:06 am
Sorry to read about the point problems, Laurence. Normally, I find Hattons very reliable. It seems they need to check the work of their packers?
As this has happened on two occasions three months apart, it occurs to me that at some time, someone put a consignment of SL-E386F into the bin assigned for SL-E396F.  I suspect that someone picking from the bin (indeed the actual picking may be automated) would not check the number, other than a cursory glance and 386 could easily be mistaken as 396 in such circumstances.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Yet_Another on January 17, 2017, 12:06:33 pm
I think you're right about the numbering. I ended up with a few of the wrong points in my Anyrail plan, just because the numbers are all so similar. I only noticed because they showed up in the BOM. Concentrating on whether there's an 'E' in the number matters as well  :doh:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 17, 2017, 06:41:29 pm
So today I have laid the final points on the station boards.  I have yet to wire it, but the Seep operates the point blades correctly.  Here's a picture of the point complex at the down end of the station.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-170117183206-47472833.jpeg)

Once wired, I will have completed the installation of 14 points.  So there are only 32 more to go.  Each set of storage loops has eight tracks, requiring 7 access points and 7 exit points plus two for each branch runaround, making 16 on each storage loop board.  But the station board is the focus of the whole layout so, once I have completed the left hand board and screwed it down, I should be able to display a typical station train scene (but without the scenery, platforms or buildings).  I will try to do this tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 18, 2017, 06:49:50 pm
I had hoped to complete the right hand board today and screw it down ready for a photo shoot.  However, time has been at a premium and although I have finished wiring all the points, I havenít quite finished all the power droppers.  It shouldnít take long to complete, but Iím not sure whether Iíll get any time tomorrow.  However, I took time off from finishing the wiring today and took a few pictures.  This is the scene from the up end of the station showing the branch train at the branch platform, a reduced version of one of the mainline commuter trains at the up platform and the local goods train entering the goods loop.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-180117180312-475191644.jpeg)

You can see the DCC walkaroud (hand controller) on the centre board.  Hereís another shot from a different angle.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-180117180306-475182308.jpeg)

Although the right hand board is not ready to screw down yet, I have lowered it so that you can get an idea of the scale of the station complex.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-180117180306-47501740.jpeg)

And finally, hereís a picture of the underside of the right hand board, almost complete. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-180117180320-475201161.jpeg)

Tomorrow I will try to show some more trains in the station.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 18, 2017, 08:23:14 pm
Always good to see some trains as well as the progress on the boards, Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 18, 2017, 08:29:38 pm
Looking good Laurence.
You'll be able to get a good bit of speed up on those straights   ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 18, 2017, 08:34:57 pm
Looking good Laurence.
You'll be able to get a good bit of speed up on those straights   ;) ;)
Yes, once I finish the station board tracks, I plan to take a few pics of trains and then sprint down the side boards to the storage loops.  The loops will take quite a while.  Meanwhile, I am planning on writing a definitive history of Marton Hinmarche (note the subtle change of name). 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 18, 2017, 08:37:42 pm
Looking good Laurence.
You'll be able to get a good bit of speed up on those straights   ;) ;)
Yes, once I finish the station board tracks, I plan to take a few pics of trains and then sprint down the side boards to the storage loops.  The loops will take quite a while.  Meanwhile, I am planning on writing a definitive history of Marton Hinmarche (note the subtle change of name).
Sounds good, I like histories, adds a bit of colour and interest to layouts. I was thinking of writing one covering the historical development of railways in the Port Perran and Trepol Bay areas.  Why the change of name ?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 18, 2017, 08:41:58 pm
Sounds good, I like histories, adds a bit of colour and interest to layouts. I was thinking of writing one covering the historical development of railways in the Port Perran and Trepol Bay areas.  Why the change of name ?
I'll explain when I write the history.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 19, 2017, 06:56:54 pm
And everything was going so well!  I was out for most of the day but, when I did get home, I managed to connect and solder all the droppers to the busbars.  Before I went out this morning, I took a couple more pictures of the trains featured yesterday.  Iím sorry about the poor focus but Iím just using my mobile phone.  I must get myself a decent camera so that I can control the aperture, etc and mount it on a tripod.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-190117183028-475621857.jpeg)

The first is the local goods in close up

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-190117183029-475791081.jpeg)

The second is the goods and the branch train.

But back to this afternoon: when I had tested continuity and resistance, I reached the stage of cutting the Seep operating rods.  I have started using a miniature grinding wheel, which works well.  Unfortunately, on the fifth out of six, I somehow managed to grind off the end of the plastic slider on the point.  Ouch!  :(

I first thought of moving the point motor to the other side of the point but, of course, I would have had to remove the point anyway to make the slot for the Seep operating rod.  So there was nothing for it but to change the point: I can still use the damaged one in a different location, using the other end of the slider.  Removing the point proved extremely difficult because it was interlocked with the rest of the track and was close to a pair of power droppers.  However, I managed it in the end.  I then had to change the frog dropper to the new point and insert the new point into the interlocked track.  It was a tricky operation and I had to pull up all the spare sleepers, which will have to be replaced tomorrow.  Eventually, after changing one of the joiners, I managed to get it all back and working again.  Phew!  :)

After that, I had less time for test runs, but the 2-6-4T managed to negotiate everything with hardly a stutter, so I was ready to screw the board down.  The level is still a little low, so I will need to raise it very slightly, but the 2-6-4T ran across the joins reasonably well on all tracks.  So thatís where Iím up to but, I have started writing the definitive history, so look out for it soon (or watch this space).  I hope to post some more pics tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 19, 2017, 07:02:29 pm
Glad you managed to get things running a little.
You seem to be going the same way as me, One step forward and two backwards. But.....we will get there in the end.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Newleaf on January 19, 2017, 07:51:02 pm
Not with one step forward and two steps back you won't!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: weave on January 19, 2017, 08:11:31 pm
Not with one step forward and two steps back you won't!

If you drink lots of red wine like me and fall forwards I'm sure you'll get there in the end!  :)

Keep the faith.

Cheers weave  :beers:

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 19, 2017, 08:41:56 pm
Not with one step forward and two steps back you won't!

If you drink lots of red wine like me and fall forwards I'm sure you'll get there in the end!  :)
Keep the faith.
Cheers weave  :beers:
Ah now therein lies a problem - if I fall forward I'll flatten the town of Port Perran in one go. So.....no railway work once the red wine is opened !
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 20, 2017, 09:00:53 am
The Definitive History of Marton Hinmarche

Yes, I know the name has changed slightly, but hereís why.  I originally hit on the idea of a model based on Moreton-in-Marsh more than forty years ago, when I lived in there.  The original idea was very close to the prototype.  However, forty years on my ideas have changed a little and the model, although still based on the original layout, seeks to reflect a wider perspective of my experience of railways in the late 1950s.  Thus I have moved it somewhat to the North East, although its exact location is not precisely defined.  The slight change in name reflects the new, indeterminate location. 

First a few lines about the prototype.  Moreton-in-Marsh station was originally the headquarters of the Moreton-in-Marsh to Stratford upon Avon Tramway which opened on 5th September 1826 and was worked by horse drawn single wagons (Extract from http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moreton_marsh.htm (http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moreton_marsh.htm)).  In 1853, the Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway arrived, later to become part of the GWR in 1863.  The tramway eventually ceased operations, but a junction was created along it for a branch line to Shipston-on-Stour.  A few miles along the line in the UP direction was Kingham Junction with a branch to Chipping Norton.  Moreton Hinmarch was envisaged to incorporate the two branch lines into a single model.  Now for the definitive history of the model.

Marton Hinmarche became a railway station with the advent of the Aylesbury and Worcester Railway (AWR) in 1867.  The purpose of the AWR was to link the northern Home Counties with the West Country and Wales.  It was initially a single track railway with passing loops at stations, but was upgraded to double track when the Great Central opened in 1899.  Although the AWR was later absorbed by the GWR, it still retains some of the features of non-GWR railways, such as upper quadrant signals.  During both World Wars, it served as an essential bypass route for London, allowing rail traffic to connect between the South Coast and the North of England without cluttering the lines around London or Birmingham.  After the Second World War, it became an essential link in the route between the fishing ports of the East Coast and the West Country. 

The AWR serves as a route to London for ex-GWR trains and, to a lesser extent for ex-LMS and ex-GCR trains. Commuter traffic reflects a northern Home Counties flavour and goods traffic comprises local goods trains and XP freight, which spills out from the southern end of the Great Central.  There is a creamery adjacent to the station and a daily milk train collects milk for delivery to the northern Home Counties.  By the 1950s, it had become a popular holiday route and summer specials to the South Coast and the West Country were a common site.

Marton Hinmarche is situated on the edge of the limestone/ironstone belt and, as such, has buildings of mixed materials.  It is clearly a market town and supplies the surrounding area with coal from the coal yard.  The area is well known for sheep farming and has a number of racing stables and stud farms.  There is a branch line which serves Shipton, a town in a mixed farming area with a flourishing light engineering industry.  The other branch line serves Norton, a nearby wool town.  Currently, goods items for the two towns are carried in a box van attached to the branch passenger train.  There may be scope in future to run a local goods train on the branch, although it would require two brake vans, one at each end, to allow the loco to run round at the end of the branch. 

I will enlarge on the history and topography of Marton Hinmarche and its surrounding area in future posts.  As the model develops, I should be able to post photos of the town and its environs.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 20, 2017, 09:12:26 am
An excellent histoty Laurence.
Thanks for taking the time to compile tat back story and I look forward to future updates.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on January 20, 2017, 09:17:13 am
 :thankyousign:Lawrence for the update and history of the area you are covering, I found it very informative.     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: themadhippy on January 20, 2017, 11:53:07 am
Quote
  The other branch line serves Norton, a nearby wool town.
surprised theirs  not a  steam powered brewery  in the town
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on January 20, 2017, 06:41:30 pm
Looking forward to another history lesson! :)
I'm sure in time the abstemious citizens of Marton Hinmarche will recognize the benefits of amber nectar.  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 20, 2017, 06:48:37 pm
I think the board join is OK now

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-200117085009.jpeg)

I've done two things today.  The first was to set up trains for a photo shoot.  Here's one of the pics

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-200117181823.jpeg)

You can see the London bound intermediate passenger pulling into Platform 2 headed by the Grange.  The milk train is sitting in the creamery siding with the Class 5 at its head and, opposite, the 57XX heads the local good in the goods depot siding.  Unfortunately, with the sunlight streaming through the windows, the branch train waiting at Platform 3 is all but invisible, as is the Down suburban train approaching platform 1.  This will be a typical configurations during normal timetable operations. The milk train and the local goods will come and go, but the first part of each of the 16 sub-cycles will involve three passenger trains of this type.  The Class 5 is actually designated to haul one of the intermediate passengers, but it has been assigned to milk train duties because the Ivatt mogul is not yet available.

The second thing I have achieved today is to finish all the track on all the station boards and I have begun to lay the tracks for the branch line.  I have enough wooden sleeper track to complete the branch line and to lay some more on the main lines.  After that, the main lines and all the storage loops will be made from all the concrete sleeper track that I ordered in error.  By the end of tomorrow I should have laid all the track up to the first sets of points in the storage loops.  Once the storage loops are complete, I will be able to start continuous running to bed in the track, run in the locos and calibrate the DCC settings for each loco.  I made an initial stab at the calibration when I took delivery of them, but running around a scale two and a half miles will enable me to set the top speed accurately and adjust the other settings accordingly.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 21, 2017, 10:34:28 pm
Before I tell you about todayís progress, I have some more news about Marton Hinmarche.  By the end of austerity in the early fifties, the main line track was in need of replacement.  It was mainly bullhead rail in old chair sleepers with wooden chocks.  In contrast the station complex had been replaced by flat-bottomed rail.  Although the branch was also bullhead rail, it was decided that the replacement of the chocks with more modern spring steel ones and the selective replacement of chairs would be sufficient with a 30 mph speed limit.  So, when new, pre-assembled track sections became available, it was decided to change the main line track to concrete sleepers.  So the track in the station area and on the branch is all wooden sleepers, but further away from the station, the track is all concrete sleepers.

The original prototype, Moreton-in-Marsh lies midway between two small, local breweries, Hook Norton Brewery a few miles to the North East and the Donnington Brewery a few miles to the South.  To reflect this, Marton Hinmarche is serviced by two breweries, one in Norton at the southern end of the branch and the other in Shipton, at the other end of the branch.  The breweries both have tied houses in Marton and some of the beer comes by rail in the branch train goods van.  If sales increase, an additional beer truck may need to be added to the branch train.

Now for todayís proceedings.  The pictures I took yesterday were with my freebie tablet, which quite honestly, were of poor quality because it whites out with glare and has a very red hue.  So I took a couple today with my phone, which is not particularly good, but better than the tablet.  The first is the Class 5 at the head of the milk train.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-210117185127-476771120.jpeg)

The second is a panoramic view of the station, showing the whole length of the Grange hauled intermediate passenger.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-210117185126-476302462.jpeg)

I have finished laying all the track on the side boards, but I havenít yet joined on to the loop boards, because I wanted to lift the side boards to connect the droppers to the busbars, which I have now done.  It was more difficult to cut the track and realign the boards than it was in the station because the track is curved and so is inclined to move out of line once cut.  On the first board, I hadnít anticipated the problem and so it wasnít until I came to realign the track that I realised the difficulty.  Fortunately, I have bought some track pins (far too many, but theyíre very cheap).  So I was able to drill the sleepers in several places with a 0.7mm drill to accommodate the track pins.  I would have preferred to use a 0.5mm drill, but my miniature drill would not take such a small drill bit.  I drilled some way into the baseboards to make it relatively easy to fit the track pins.  Once done, I first tested with a bogie coach and then checked it all with the 2-6-4T.  For the second board, I was pre-warned and so I drilled and fixed the track pins prior to cutting the track.  I still had to fiddle a little when I refitted the board, but it was much easier.  So now all the track I have laid, right round to the sections that will overlap onto the loops boards, is tested for power and ride.  I canít wait to get on with the loop boards, but installing the points will be a bit complicated and fitting the loops may be a bit tricky.  However, itís a question of one step at a time.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 22, 2017, 09:38:17 am
Thank you for the latest update. I d love to be able to run full length trains like that.
Keep the updates coming.

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 22, 2017, 10:49:01 am
Thank you for the latest update. I d love to be able to run full length trains like that.
Keep the updates coming.
The grange pulls the longest of the intermediate trains that stop at Marton with 10 coaches.  There are also two expresses the go straight through, one hauled by a Jubilee with 11 coaches and one by a Hall with 12.  They won't be able to run through Marton until the loops are complete.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 22, 2017, 11:05:27 am
 :hellosign: & thank you for the  :greatpicturessign: & all the updates, your back story is excellent.
     regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 22, 2017, 12:01:11 pm
Very good to see the trackwork progressing well with some trains, laurence. I agree with Martin, it must be great to run such long trains. Looking at photos. of WR passenger trains from the early 1960s, it was not unusual to add one or two additional coaches, in BR Lined Maroon, in front of an otherwise uniform rake of BR Standard coaches in WR Chocolate & Cream livery. These additional coaches could be Collett or Hawksworth design ones (alas Hawksworth ones are still not available in this livery) ones and even ex-LMS Stanier design or ex-LNER Gresley design coaches (how this happened I have no idea).

During 1962, following the abolition of the WR Chocolate & Cream livery for express train carriages, following Stanley Raymond becoming Chairman of the Western Region of British Railways, the WR named train coach rakes slowly changed to being all maroon with some new SK's and TSO's with Commonwealth bogies being introduced.

Having CWR concrete-sleepered track on even secondary lines in the 1960s was not as unusual as people might think so your station trackwork is quite prototypical.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 22, 2017, 07:10:38 pm
I have laid more track today.  I thought I would start off with a couple of pictures.  The first shows the Grange-hauled intermediate passenger entering the curve on the UP line, overtaking the milk train hauled by the Class 5 on the branch.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-220117173930-477131220.jpeg)

The second shows the Grange racing away as it gathers speed. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-220117173931-477541021.jpeg)

You can clearly see the transition from the wooded sleepers in the station complex to the new concrete sleepers resulting from the refurbishment of the main line.  So now to todayís progress.

I have laid all the track along the side boards and onto the loop boards.  Both branches have been completed up to the run round points and the main lines have been completed up to the first loop points except for the DOWN main on the DOWN side of the station, where a short linking piece of track is required.  It has all been tested using the Grange on the UP main, the 2-6-4T on the DOWN main and the Class 5 and the 64XX on the branch, all complete with trains.  There are still one or two dead spots, but I havenít cleaned the track yet.  Also, repeated running seems to eradicate many of them.

We have already learned that Marton Hinmarche is a market town.  Market day is on a Thursday and it is planned that extra trains will be running on market day.  Also, in the Summer, there will be additional holiday specials to the South Coast and the West Country.  Marton has its own bakery and a range of shops.  It also sports three rather nice hotels and six pubs, which take their beer supplies from the two breweries in nearby towns.  The patron of the town is Baron Tiverton, who lives with Lady Tiverton in Beresford Hall, about a mile from the town.  The Town Hall bares his family name, as does one of the three hotels in the town.  I hope to give you more news and information about Marton Hinmarche in future posts.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 22, 2017, 09:08:22 pm
Thanks, Laurence, for the photos. of the trains and the backstory details. With two local breweries and a choice of good places to stay overnight, it sounds like a very attractive area which an enthusiasts' special from Cornwall could well visit in the future. I do like "Granges" but cannot really justify having one despite them being mainstays of the Cornish main-line in steam days. (Even my single "Manor" is really excessive but as there are no RTR 43XXs . . . )
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 22, 2017, 10:14:10 pm
My only concern is that the 'Up' line in UK outline generally travels in a clockwise direction and is the outer oval as we drive on the left :uneasy:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: weave on January 22, 2017, 10:33:33 pm
My only concern is that the 'Up' line in UK outline generally travels in a clockwise direction and is the outer oval as we drive on the left :uneasy:

Could be me but tis running on the left as there's another track to the left. I thought the Up line was towards London or the nearest large city, so depends which way round the layout is.

Prob talking rubbish but like to join in.

Cheers weave  :beers:

PS All looking good Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: JasonBz on January 23, 2017, 01:28:39 am
The Grange is on the Up as far as i can see!
And a particularly handsome looking engine it is with its rake of WR carriages following on...
Proper job!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 23, 2017, 06:41:24 am
My only concern is that the 'Up' line in UK outline generally travels in a clockwise direction and is the outer oval as we drive on the left :uneasy:

Could be me but tis running on the left as there's another track to the left. I thought the Up line was towards London or the nearest large city, so depends which way round the layout is.

Prob talking rubbish but like to join in.

Cheers weave  :beers:

PS All looking good Laurence.
I have taken the line direction from the original prototype, so the UP line is the one towards London.  The Grange is hauling a London-bound train.  I could have modelled the station the other way round, but then the back scene would have just been open fields.  I though the town might be a better subject.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: paulprice on January 23, 2017, 07:33:00 am
Looks stunning to me
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 23, 2017, 09:57:39 am
My only concern is that the 'Up' line in UK outline generally travels in a clockwise direction and is the outer oval as we drive on the left :uneasy:

Could be me but tis running on the left as there's another track to the left. I thought the Up line was towards London or the nearest large city, so depends which way round the layout is.

Prob talking rubbish but like to join in.

But what I see is a train travelling anti clockwise with another track to its right which I presume travels clockwise. :confused2:
I'm ignoring the milk train on the branch line.
You are quite right in that the Up line travels towards the capital.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 23, 2017, 11:49:25 am
But what I see is a train travelling anti clockwise with another track to its right which I presume travels clockwise. :confused2:
I'm ignoring the milk train on the branch line.
You are quite right in that the Up line travels towards the capital.
Actually, NPN, there's no clockwise or anti-clockwise because each end of the track ends in either the UP or DOWN storage loops.  It's simply an out and back layout.  The storage loops are just a convenient way of turning the trains round without taking them off the track.  So when a train goes off in the UP direction, it will come back in the DOWN direction.  If you consider the whole layout as a continuum, the trains actually run clockwise the whole time whether they are travelling in the UP or DOWN directions.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 23, 2017, 03:20:02 pm
Thanks, Laurence. That makes sense now.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 23, 2017, 06:59:49 pm
Iíve now prepared the small storage loop baseboards for installing the points.  All the track laying up to the first set of points is now complete.  Iíve cut the tracks and lifted both of the small boards.  You can see the DOWN small board here after track cutting.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-230117184045-47788901.jpeg)

And hereís a picture of the same board, lifted ready for point installation and wiring.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-230117184043-477552274.jpeg)

There is a bit of a problem here because of the intensity of points fanning out into the storage loops.  If I were to use the same technique of laying the track and cutting at the join, there would be very small sections of track that would require power droppers, which is very difficult.  So, in these cases, I intend to lay the track across the joins and lift it without cutting it.  I will use part of an insulated connector to isolate it from the frogs so that the whole can be lifted and then lowered.  Once everything on the large board is complete, I can screw it down and then finally realign the tracks using track pins.  Iíll report on the success (or otherwise) of this plan when I reach that stage.

Once again, I have encountered the problem of wiring harnesses that are too short.  However, I can use the harnesses that were discarded from the station boards, so that should save a bit of wire.  Hopefully, I will be able to get by without having to order new reels of wire.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 24, 2017, 06:43:44 pm
Today I embarked on the trickiest part of the track laying activity.  I have begun laying track on the small DOWN board.  I began by replacing all the wiring harnesses for the points in order to allow sufficient length to connect them with the board in its propped position.  Since then I have installed and tested the first point and laid the second into position.  I have also connected short track sections to the first and fitted power droppers to them.  Here's the result.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-240117183310.jpeg)

I tested the first point and it worked well, so I can move on with confidence.  The  total number of points on the loop boards is 32, so, at two a day, five days a week I reckon it will take me about three weeks to complete them.  Completing the loops will be a bit tricky because I will have to connect each loop between two pre-laid points.  However, I will just chip away at it and see how I get on.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Jimbo on January 24, 2017, 07:12:31 pm
Great progress Laurence! After the electrickery problems you had I bet it's nice to be getting on now! A fabulous shed to be working in too, Watching with interest! Incidentally as others have stated the 'up' line is always the line heading towards London no matter which terminus so anything going from the south coast towards London is travelling in the up direction and strange as it may seem anything travelling towards London from the north of the country is also travelling in the up direction although it is going down country, also another little snippet you may or may not know the mileposts every 20 Chains (1/4 mile) at the trackside are always placed on the down side of the railway so anybody walking the cess should know from which direction trains are coming from, there is bi-directional or reversible working in some places of course but even though the down line may be reversible in some areas a track worker walking will know this with local route knowledge gained during training and the mileposts will still be placed in the down side cess, useless information maybe but interesting nonetheless!! (To me anyway! LOL!) Keep up the good work  :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 24, 2017, 07:27:28 pm
The only exception to the UP/DOWN rule was the Great Central Railway (GCR).  Because their HQ was in Sheffield, trains running away from Sheffield were always DOWN trains and those running towards Sheffield were UP trains.  Apparently, this still persisted until the line ceased operations under the Beeching plan.  So, everywhere (in England at least), trains to London were UP trains EXCEPT on the GCR, where they were DOWN trains.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Jimbo on January 24, 2017, 07:32:56 pm
That's interesting, I didn't know that  :hmmm:, I was just going to add, in the case of a single line, the mileposts are still always in the downside cess determined in the fact that they'll be on your left travelling in the down direction on the single line,  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: 25901JFM on January 25, 2017, 09:44:49 am
That's interesting, I didn't know that  :hmmm:, I was just going to add, in the case of a single line, the mileposts are still always in the downside cess determined in the fact that they'll be on your left travelling in the down direction on the single line,  :thumbsup:

Not all mileposts are in the downside cess.  On the Great Western they are in the upside cess, but then the Great Western always liked to be different!

John
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 25, 2017, 12:35:42 pm
Not all mileposts are in the downside cess.  On the Great Western they are in the upside cess, but then the Great Western always liked to be different!
John
I agree.  When I lived in Bristol I used to time the 253s against the mileposts out of the right hand window on the return journeys from London.  The regularly clocked 7 second quarters, which is a fraction over 125mph.  It was more difficult to time them on the London bound trains because the mileposts were too close to the track.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 25, 2017, 05:32:03 pm
Progress is getting a little slower.  I may have to revise the time I estimated to complete the loop boards.  One a day, five days a week might be more realistic.  Anyway, I managed one today.  In fact, I connected the droppers from yesterdayís work (the first point feeding the loops from the down MAIN) and checked for continuity and isolation: both were OK.  So I cut off the Seep operating rod and tested the track with the 57XX.  Iím pleased to report that it ran OK.  You may have spotted that there are no power droppers on the track feeding the point from the DOWN main.  I am relying on the fact that the two rails connect directly through the point to the two pairs of droppers beyond it.  It all works OK and it means that there will be less droppers to install.

I installed the last point feeding the UP main from the loops today.  I had quite a problem with it.  I checked everything as I went along in my usual fashion, but the Seep would not reliably operate the point under power.  I tried reaming out the hole in the board with my router, but with no success.  I then removed some of the cork underlay around the hole, again without success.  Eventually I decided that there must be something applying friction to the point slider, so I removed the strip of underlay beneath the slider and that did the trick.  Phew!  I have connected the auxiliary switch to the power rails and checked continuity and isolation: everything is good.  I havenít been able to test the track with the 57XX yet because I intend to fit the power droppers beyond the next pair of points and feed it back via the continuous rails.  Perhaps Iíll be able to get that far tomorrow or Friday.  Hereís the progress so far.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/3091-250117172626.jpeg)

If you look carefully at the right hand side of the picture, you can see the join between the small loop board and the large one.  You should be able to make out, from the underlay, how the join is VERY close to the frogs of three points.  Those are the places where I intend to fix the track directly to the large board without cutting it.  If I cut back a second sleeper on the track, I should be able to slide joiners along the rails to allow the large board to be lifted and then slide them back again when the large board is finally screwed down.  I will place the insulated joiners for the frogs a little way along the overlapping track, which will produce the effect of extending the frogs onto the other board, without actually doing so.  Naturally, Iíll report progress and success or otherwise of the techniques that I am using.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithbythe sea on January 26, 2017, 04:42:52 pm
Much admire your perseverance Laurence. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 26, 2017, 05:57:23 pm
Iíve been feeling a bit under the weather for the last couple of days.  Nothing serious, but a runny nose and feeling a bit chilly, you know the sort of thing.  But, what with the cold weather and commitments that have left me away from the train shed until mid afternoon, it has been a bit cold down there.  When I went to the train shed today, the temperature had fallen to below 7oC.  I tripped in the heater and, had I been in fine fettle, it would have been quite acceptable.  But after a couple of hours, even though the temperature had risen to over 130C, I had had enough.  But I have made some progress.

I completed the next point, including wiring the frog and connecting the Seep auxiliary switch to the DCC bus.  I have also added the extension sections of track from the point and connected the droppers.  The point is tested and works well.  So thatís three of the eight on the board, sixteen on the down loops boards and 32 on both loop boards (i.e. 10% of the total).  But steady progress is better than no progress.  Iíve one more point plus droppers to add to extend the track further into the loops and then the three tricky points next to the board join.  Finally, there is the branch run round point, which should be comparatively straight forward.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 26, 2017, 06:06:21 pm
Take it easy Laurence.
Hope you start feeling better soon.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on January 26, 2017, 06:30:42 pm
You feeling one or two degrees under and the train room being just 13 degrees it's a sensible move to take a break.

Hopefully you can warm the place up a bit more than you experienced today.

Take care.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 26, 2017, 09:16:25 pm
Not sure what sort of heater you have, Laurence, but if electrical plug in is it worth putting it on a timer?
Don't push yourself if you're feeling under the weather as the work will become a chore.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on January 26, 2017, 09:22:01 pm
I hope you're up and running 100% soon.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 27, 2017, 06:52:03 am
Not sure what sort of heater you have, Laurence, but if electrical plug in is it worth putting it on a timer?
Don't push yourself if you're feeling under the weather as the work will become a chore.
Yes, it's on a timer.  I run Economy 7 so it's on every night from midnight to 07:00.  But yesterday, I didn't get down there until mid afternoon and it was below zero outside so, even though the shed's well insulated, the temperature dropped quite a bit.  I probably ought to turn up the thermostat a bit in this cold weather but, hopefully we have seen the end of the current very cold spell.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on January 27, 2017, 09:57:08 am
Hope you're feeling better.

I think I'd go for a cheap n cheerful fan heater as an emergency booster!

How have you insulated the floor?

For my workbench in the freezing garage I opted for some of those thick interlocking tiles (e.g. http://www.diy.com/departments/auto-pro-interlocking-eva-foam-black-floor-mats-pack-of-6/1270021_BQ.prd (http://www.diy.com/departments/auto-pro-interlocking-eva-foam-black-floor-mats-pack-of-6/1270021_BQ.prd)) and put at chunky rubber backed coir runner on top. That topper won't be suitable for the railway room but an extra layer makes quite a difference.

Dave G

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 27, 2017, 12:01:01 pm
Hope you're feeling better.

I think I'd go for a cheap n cheerful fan heater as an emergency booster!

How have you insulated the floor?

For my workbench in the freezing garage I opted for some of those thick interlocking tiles (e.g. [url]http://www.diy.com/departments/auto-pro-interlocking-eva-foam-black-floor-mats-pack-of-6/1270021_BQ.prd[/url] ([url]http://www.diy.com/departments/auto-pro-interlocking-eva-foam-black-floor-mats-pack-of-6/1270021_BQ.prd[/url])) and put at chunky rubber backed coir runner on top. That topper won't be suitable for the railway room but an extra layer makes quite a difference.

Dave G
The floor insulation is about 10cm thick.  Here's a picture during construction of the train shed.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/3091-280916133315.jpeg)
The roof and walls are insulated as well, but in these sub-zero temperatures, it gets quite cold after a few hours (down to six or seven degrees).  I have a 1.5kW oil filled radiator which works well, but it takes a while to reach a good temperature in this weather.  However, it's not too bad and I'm usually happy to work there when I'm back to normal.  I feel somewhat better today and, with the weather due to warm up a little, I should be OK.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithbythe sea on January 27, 2017, 04:33:39 pm
Not sure what sort of heater you have, Laurence, but if electrical plug in is it worth putting it on a timer?
Don't push yourself if you're feeling under the weather as the work will become a chore.
Yes, it's on a timer.  I run Economy 7 so it's on every night from midnight to 07:00.  But yesterday, I didn't get down there until mid afternoon and it was below zero outside so, even though the shed's well insulated, the temperature dropped quite a bit.  I probably ought to turn up the thermostat a bit in this cold weather but, hopefully we have seen the end of the current very cold spell.

You might want to run it a bit later than 7am Laurence. What I've noticed with us is that it has actually been getting colder from say 6am to 9am these past couple of weeks.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 27, 2017, 05:50:59 pm
Iím feeling marginally better today so, hopefully, Iíll soon be back to 100%, but I still donít feel like staying in the train shed for too long.  I had quite a good session today and the temperature reach a dizzy 16oC.  I made a little more progress today.  I only fitted one more point but also added two pairs of power droppers.  I had some strange experiences along the way.  The first was that when I had worked my way through all the preliminaries for installing the Seep, it just didnít want to operate the points under power.  I investigated and it seemed reluctant even with a manual operation of the Seep, which is strange because I was sure it was OK when I first tried it.  No matter what I did, it just wouldnít work.  In the end I tried another Seep and that was fine.  I think the operating rod is at an angle.  I have tried bending it and I think it may be OK on the next point, but I will have to wait and see.

Then when I came to test the track with the 57XX, I kept getting a short.  I tried switching all the Seeps manually, but to no effect.  In the end, I disconnected the DDC bus to the board, but the short was still there, so the fault must have been elsewhere.  Eventually I traced it to another board and tried several things before lifting the 64XX from the track, when it cleared.  It appears that when I first tried to run the 57XX, the 64XX was selected by mistake and it had crept forward onto a trailing point switched to the other track.  So at last it all worked and tested OK.  I have included a picture of the 57XX testing all the track laid on the small loop board, including the two sets of points that I have laid into place but not actually installed yet.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-270117171431.jpeg)

I laid two short lengths of track between Point 29 (the one I installed today) and the next two, incorporating the power feed joiners to ensure that power would always be available not matter how the points were switched.  I have found it a bit fiddly when using the cut ends of track, but I have developed a technique that is reasonably foolproof.  After cutting vertically with my Xuron, I then take a needle file with a low triangular profile and file both sides of the rail, ensuring that the lower grove that takes the rail joiners is clear of burrs.  I switch the flat side of the file to ensure that the groove is totally free.  I do this to all four rail ends.  I then use the flat of the file to remove any burrs along the bottom of the rail.  Finally, I test all the ends with a rail joiner.  If there is a problem with any of them, I rework the grooves with the needle file.  Itís all a bit time consuming, but I does ensure that I donít destroy power feed joiners.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 27, 2017, 07:46:34 pm
It's definitely worth keeping your railway hut warmer than 15 degrees when you're working in it. 22 seems to be the optimum temperature (for men) in offices.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 27, 2017, 08:21:01 pm
You have much more patience and methodology than I, Laurence.
The episode with the 64xx would have had me climbing the walls and eventually committing pannier murder
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Skyline2uk on January 28, 2017, 09:15:16 am
You have much more patience and methodology than I, Laurence.
The episode with the 64xx would have had me climbing the walls and eventually committing pannier murder

Oh surely not Nobby!

Tiny little defenceless Pannier.... and you a Steam man (a fan that is, not steam powered Nobby)....

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 28, 2017, 05:23:33 pm
I didnít spend any time in the train shed today.  I got a bit cold yesterday and decided that I needed to give it a miss and keep warm.  However, my wife did find my old Olympus C-300 camera so I replaced the dud batteries and took three pictures with it to test the results  I think they are quite good

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-280117162305-480391200.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-280117162259-48038101.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-280117162257-48035925.jpeg)

The only drawback is that there is no provision to stop down to improve the depth of focus, so the distant things tend to be out of focus.  Anyway, I thought I would use today to update the definitive history of Marton Hinmarche. 

The name Marton probably derives from the mediaeval name for a farm or settlement by a pool.  The name Hinmarche is used to differentiate it from the village of Marton, which lies between Rugby and Leamington Spa.  There are differences of opinion about the origin of the name Hinmarche.  Some think it simply derives from ďhen marshĒ, but as there is no marshy ground in the locality it may derive from the little known roman road that runs through Marton, Stoat Street.  Farmers bringing their poultry to market may literally have marched along Stoat Street with their hens.  However, whatever the origin, Marton Hinmarche it remains today.

Of the nearby towns at each end of the branch, Shipton probably derives from Sheep Tun or enclosure for sheep and Norton could simply be a North enclosure or settlement.  Nearby, along Stoat Street, lies the roman town of Stowcester, built around the top of a steep hill.  Because of the terrain, the railway never reached Stowcester and it relies on reaching the rest of the world via Stoat Street to Marton Hinmarche.

During the Second World War, the surrounding area was a veritable arsenal.  It is said that behind every hedge there was an armoured vehicle, field gun or some other item military equipment.  Apparently it was used to stockpile the armaments in readiness for shipment to the channel ports for the D-Day landings.  Nearby, RAF Hinmarche was home to a squadron of Wellington bombers.  On summer evenings, the Brylcreem Boys could be seen in town quenching their thirst and washing away the horrors of aerial warfare.

When the railway first arrived, the fourteenth Baron Tiverton was against the idea of engines spewing smoke and steam through his estates.  However, he was quickly succeeded by the fifteenth Baron, who immediately saw the opportunities presented by the railway.  He decided to offer shooting parties to city gents and realised that his racehorses could be transported rapidly to distant racecourses.  He built the Dinsdale Hotel, bearing his family name and Coat of arms, to accommodate visitors who came by rail to see the surrounding area and, in particular, his rather splendid arboretum.  The seventeenth Baron provided the funds for the town hall in the centre of the town, which also bares the family name, the Dinsdale Hall.  I hope to be able to give more details of the definitive history before too long.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 28, 2017, 07:14:57 pm
Thanks for the update Laurence.
I think the distance being out of focus looks more realistic and concentrates the eye on the main centre of interest.
Good to hear an update on the history.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 28, 2017, 08:53:35 pm
Why is it whenever I see/hear the word 'Dinsdale' Monty Python and 'Spiny Norman' spring to mind? :hmmm:

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 29, 2017, 06:58:48 am
I think that must have been the nineteenth Baron, who definitely kept a python in his menagerie, which he named after General Montgomery.  In fact he met an early grave after an encounter with Monty and the current Baron (circa 1958) is the youngest for seven generations.  The current Baron is the Lord Lieutenant of Bridgefordshire, the youngest for nearly four hundred years.  I forgot to mention that Marton Hinmarche is in the county of Bridgefordshire, whose county town is Bridgeford, a university town which is little known outside academic circles, but of great repute amongst academics.  It is rumored that the baron is going to set up a model railway in one of his outbuildings as an additional visitor attraction.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 29, 2017, 06:37:14 pm
I notice that Hattons have a rebuilt Scott for sale.  I thought about buying it to replace the Jubilee on the XP passenger and using the Jubilee to replace the Class 5 on the intermediate passenger, releasing the Class 5 for milk train duties.  There appears to be no sign of the Ivatt mogul that I had originally intended for the milk train.  Does this seem a reasonable course of action?  I would need to paint out the yellow diagonal stripe on the cab side because there were no overhead wires in the 1950s.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 29, 2017, 07:50:28 pm
Many thanks for the detailed history, Laurence. I always appreciate a good backstory.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 30, 2017, 07:04:55 pm
Today, I have made excellent progress, although I have not had time to take any pictures.  I have completed (well, nearly completed) the installation of three points.  The first went like a dream.  The second presented a problem in that, when I came to do the drilling, I realised that the available space was insufficient for my normal mode of layout and so I had to start again, using the opposite side of the point.  That would have been alright but for the fact that I forgot to turn the template round.  My drilling template is slightly asymmetrical, which is OK if I follow the rules, but I didnít and had to do a lot of fiddling to get the point working correctly. The good news is that I was able to use the Seep that had given me problems the other day but turned out to be OK.  I had tried it on the first point, but it still would not work mechanically.  This time, I tried operating it mechanically by using a screw to push the piston backwards and forwards rather than operating it with the lower extension of the operating rod.  It seems that the operating rod had a bend and just would not throw properly from the bottom.  But the piston worked OK and so I installed it and Hey Presto! itís good.

Then came the third point.  This time, I doubled bluffed myself and used the template the wrong way round using the normal method of installation.  So there was quite a lot more fiddling to do.  The situation was exacerbated by the stand-off seeming to foul the operating rod.  I used a 4mm, then a 5mm drill to open up the slot.  But in the end I managed to get it working.  However, I didnít quite get time to connect the droppers from the point to the bus rails.  If things had been more straight forward, I might have even managed four points today.

A few more snippets about Marton Hinmarche

Marton is the HQ of the local RDC.  The council have offices in the town and the council meets in the Dinsdale Hall.  The council has eighteen councillors representing six wards.  Each ward elects one of its three councillors every year.  There are also six aldermen, councillors who are elevated to the aldermanic bench for a term of three years, elected by the council.  The RDC covers quite a large geographical area when compared with the overall area of Bridgefordshire.  Its responsibilities include local planning, refuse collection, local road repairs and the collection of rates (the local taxation of the era).  The town sports no less than five banks:  Lloyds, Barclays, the National Provincial, the Westminster and the Midland.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on January 30, 2017, 07:08:30 pm
Thanks for the update Keith.
I'm starting to develop a mental image of Marton.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 30, 2017, 08:49:20 pm
Thanks for the latest update, Laurence. Very glad that the trackwork is progressing well. I appreciate the historical details in the latest part of the backstory.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 31, 2017, 06:42:50 am
Does anyone have any thoughts about my suggestion for buying the rebuilt Scott?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Fardap on January 31, 2017, 08:06:26 am
Quote
The only drawback is that there is no provision to stop down to improve the depth of focus, so the distant things tend to be out of focus

You should be able to put the camera into manual mode and then use the four way rockers on the back to change shutter speed and aperture, up down for shutter and left right for aperture, you will then be able to control depth of field.

Enjoying following the progress on the project, have to agree with other comments  :cold: that you probably want the shed to nominally be at 18.5 when you go in to be anywhere near comfortable at this time of year, hopefully won't have the opposite problem in the summer.
My dad used those portable halogen heaters in his awfully heated  :cold: (storage heaters) bungalow and they seem very efficient and have the benefit of almost instant heat.

The more expensive option that would also help in summer is one of those snazzy Dyson fan/heat towers, very nice but pricey; would probably be worth it for the shed though, again instant heat and cooling (air movement) in the Summer.

Steve
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 31, 2017, 08:20:51 am
You should be able to put the camera into manual mode and then use the four way rockers on the back to change shutter speed and aperture, up down for shutter and left right for aperture, you will then be able to control depth of field.
Thanks for the tip Steve.  I'll have a go.  The temperature is not too bad if I put the heater on.  Once it gets above about 14oC I turn off the heater and take off my jacket.  The halogen spots continue to keep the temperature rising.  I have a warm pullover, which is OK when I'm feeling 100% - not there yet, but probably 95%, so looking good.  17oC feels positively balmy.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 31, 2017, 09:42:21 am
Good morning, Laurence. I'm not an expert on the LMR so don't know if the Rebuilt Royal Scots were seen on the southern area of the LMR's operations (as, for example, 'Black Five' and 'Jubilee' locos. were). Neither can I comment on their running characteristics as models or the real-life prototypes. They were designed for express passenger services though so would be suitable for that. However, I think they were withdrawn quite quickly from BR service? A Class 5 on the milk train, unless it was a very long train and the route was hilly, would seem rather too much. But, I'm really no expert on the LMR.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on January 31, 2017, 10:07:18 am
Does anyone have any thoughts about my suggestion for buying the rebuilt Scott?

I have 2 of them including the weathered one with warning stripe you referred to, Laurence. They are both very good runners but I couldn't be sure how far south or off the WCML they would have been seen. Do what I always do for that era - if in doubt, it's a football special ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 31, 2017, 11:53:30 am
Thanks NPN and Chris.  Almost all the Scotts (except Black Watch) ran out of Euston in the late fifties (I had them ticked off in my Ian Allen).  Nothing bigger than a Jubilee ran into Birmingham because of a restriction between Coventry and Rugby  Heavy trains had to be double-headed.  But the AWR gives them a chance to run into Marylebone, rather like the later BR practice of running trains from New Street into Paddington via Coventry, Leamington Spa, Banbury and Oxford.  So I think I can justify a Scott-hauled express.  I can justify the Class 5 on the milk train because they pulled almost anything.  For example, the Rugby to Market Harborough line was worked by them, pulling six coach trains through to Peterborough.  My milk train has twelve 6-wheel tanks, each with an MGW of 30 tons so the weight of the train could have been over 350 tons, which is equivalent to about 10 passenger coaches.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on January 31, 2017, 05:32:59 pm
Well, Iíve finally done it.  I ordered Royal Ulster Rifleman and have cancelled the Ivatt mogul that was on pre-order from Hattons, but with no indication of a likely date of availability.  I also have on pre-order a standard class prairie in BR green, but there is at least a possible availability date.  It was February Ė March, but that has now gone back to April Ė May.  I continue to live in hope.

Todayís progress in the train shed was somewhat patchy.  It all started splendidly, with the first point installation going like a dream.  I have developed the technique of cutting away some of the cork underlay.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-310117155855-481282423.jpeg)

The patch removed from under the frog allows plenty of room for the frog dropper to be soldered to the wires connecting the frog to the switch blades.  The strip under the blade slider is to allow free movement without any friction from the underlay.  I pinned the point into position, marked out the underlay and cut it away.  I drilled for the Seep operating rod and fixing holes and attached the Seep.  I tested it mechanically and it was perfect, the best yet.  So I removed the Seep and point and attached the wiring loom and droppers.  But when I refitted them, the mechanical movement was completely wrong and the point wouldnít operate.  I tried many adjustments, including enlarging the operating rod hole, but to no effect.  So I went in and had a cup of coffee.  When I went out again, I had decided that either the Seep was the problem or the point.  So I removed them both and then decided that the quickest test would be a new Seep.  I removed a brand new one from its packaging only to find that it was almost completely seized, requiring a great deal of effort to throw the plunger.  So I took out another and that was fine.  I refitted the point and looked up through the operating rod hole, only to see that there was no reason for a problem.  The point worked OK on its own, so I tried re-installing the Seep which then worked correctly.  Itís a bit of a mystery.

Having installed and tested the last point on the board I then connected all the droppers.  But when I came to test the whole system with the 57XX, there was a permanent short circuit.  I disconnected the droppers to no effect and then noticed that the last point had both switch blades in contact with the running rails.  I lifted it again and found that one of the blades had become disconnected from the slider.  I was able to relocate it and replace the point, but I first had to remove all the original Copydex and re-coat the point.  Now two of the original points would only work in one direction.  Investigating, I found that the blue wires powering the ď2Ē or ďstraight onĒ position had become disconnected.  This probably happened when the board fell from the vertical position while I was wrestling with the last point.  The wires were re-attached and all seemed OK.  So out came the 57XX and everything went well until the last point, which would not switch one way again.  After a little readjustment of the securing screws, the problem was eventually rectified and everything was tested OK. Here's a last look at the underside of the board.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-310117155859-4812918.jpeg)

Once all the on-board testing was complete, I screwed down the board and had to make some slight adjustments to the branch join alignment with the deft use of a 0.7mm drill and some track pins.  The joins were tested for smooth running.  Here's the 57XX testing the branch join

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-310117155821-481232015.jpeg)

the DOWN main join

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-310117155819-481101833.jpeg)

and the UP main join

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-310117155829-481241114.jpeg)

Then I tested the joins with real trains

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-310117155840-481262117.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-310117155837-48125378.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-310117155849-481272129.jpeg)

Funnily enough, when I rechecked the Seep that was seized, it worked OK, so there must be gremlins about.  They are even here:  when I uploaded this the first time it crashed and I had to start again from the beginning.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 31, 2017, 05:54:50 pm
Thanks for persevering with uploading this latest update, Laurence. I'm glad that you're getting more and more trackwork completed and are able to run some full-size trains.

I also want one of the plain BR Green BR Standard 3MT 2-6-2Ts as there were two in this livery, 82035 and 82040, used in North Cornwall at the end of BR steam, but this class was rarely seen at Padstow [Penmayne] compared with the larger BR Lined Black BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4Ts.

Graham Farish BR Lined Green Ivatt 2-6-0s do turn up on eBay from time to time.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 31, 2017, 10:22:02 pm
 :hellosign: Thanks for the updates &  :greatpicturessign:  Laurence, good to know your almost back to full health
         regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 01, 2017, 06:50:17 pm
Today I began on the next challenge, which is the large DOWN loop board.  To give some idea of the task ahead here is a picture showing the large board and the work done so far on the small board.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-010217182944-481882324.jpeg)

Today I have been laying track across the join between the two boards in preparation for cutting the track and lifting the large board.  This will be something of a challenge, not least because the board is much bigger than any I have lifted before, measuring 4í X 3í6íí.  Propping it and working on the propped board may proved a more difficult proposition than the previous boards.  In addition, because of the density of points on the small board, I have decided to leave a small piece of track overhanging at the connections to the trailing ends of the points.  This will involve connecting the overhang directly to the points, including the frogs and isolating upstream on the large board.  The connections are being made by sliding connectors.  I have completed most of the loop tracks across the join, but have two tracks to complete, although one has already been cut to length and pinned in place.  After that, I will need to connect the branch tracks.  Hereís a picture of what I have achieved today.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-010217182931-48186994.jpeg)

This one gives an overall impression of the progress in relationship to the whole board.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-010217182929-481561973.jpeg)

And hereís another detailed picture from a different angle.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-010217182943-481871319.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on February 02, 2017, 12:50:10 pm
Finally catching up with your thread since I got back to work, could tell straight away from the number of pages added since I was last on the forum, you have been busy!  You have not had to seek out troubles, but great to see your perseverance in the face of challenge.  Hope you are fully back to fitness & look forward to seeing your next update
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 02, 2017, 07:19:40 pm
I finished laying all the track across the join between the DOWN loop boards today.  However, I realised that the extra long section that I had laid yesterday was too long and needed shortening.  This is because all the overlaps are connected directly to the point frogs and the isolating joiners are at the end of the overlaps.  I had intended marking out a red line indicating a notice to drivers ďDo not proceed beyond this notice until your exit route has been indicatedĒ.  The extra long piece would have overshot this line and so I had to lift the track and shorten it prior to relaying it.  I left all the laid track pinned down until the Copydex had cured.  I was then ready to lift the large board after testing.  I tested everything with the 2 6 4T and everything worked perfectly apart from the connection between Point 30 and the extension track.  Although the 2 6 4T negotiated it successfully in both directions, there was a bit of a jolt.  Inspection showed that there was a bit of an angle between the point exit and the extension rail.  I went on to test everything else and then resolved to lift the offending section and re-lay it. 

I reversed the 2 6 4T once again to verify which point was at fault, but it failed to negotiate the first point in the sequence.  Something seemed to be fouling the frog.  I checked that the bogie was railed correctly (which it was) and tried again.  After several attempts, I concluded that there must be something wrong with the loco, but I couldnít see what.  I inspected it closely and then I saw that there are a couple of what appear to be drain pipes on the far side, just in front of the cab.  One had become detached and was fouling the frog.  I replace the pipes correctly and then everything worked OK.  I ascertained the problem point and set about lifting it.  I then relocated it, resigning myself to the fact that it overhung the cork underlay for part of the way around the curve.  I should be able to insert an additional piece of underlay tomorrow.  Hereís a picture of the board ready to lift, apart from the pins holding the suspect section in place.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-020217185243-48189237.jpeg)

And hereís a close up of the offending point, now corrected.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-020217185247-482072439.jpeg)

The offending section was the right hand exit of the right hand point, as viewed through the camera.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 03, 2017, 06:49:59 pm
Today I was able to cut the track at the join between the DOWN loop boards and lift the large board.  There was quite a lot of preliminary work to do so I first removed the board altogether and worked out how best to prop it for working on the underside.  Once the various bits of wood had been added to prop the board, I was then faced with the problem of how to work on the points under the window.  In the end, I decided that the best way was to turn the board through 90o so that the window side was along the end next to the door.  This meant I could work on it fairly easily.  You can see what I mean from the picture.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-030217174630.jpeg)

So far, I have laid three points, including soldering the frog droppers and test fitting the Seeps.  I have now removed the Seeps, but labelled them so that I know which belongs to which point, in case there are any slight differences in the fitting.  The Points have been fixed with Copydex and I have also added the four connecting sections from the DOWN main halves that were split on the small board ready for the last four points to the loops.  I will leave everything to cure before starting on those four points.

I had a couple of minor disasters today.  First, I found that when I refitted the board to see how the join behaved, one or two of the curved had pulled out of alignment a little.  Then I caught one of them with my sleeve, which resulted in it partly coming adrift from the small board.  So I had to resort to more Copydex and pins.  However, I donít think thereís anything that canít be sorted with a few track pins. 

So, visually, thereís not much change to be seen today (apart from the board rotation), but I think Iím well on the way to getting all the loop points finished.  I will leave the last point that is part of the branch run around until last.  However, the fun will start when I try to complete the loops by connecting round from one end to the other.  I will be glad when the first is complete, which will be a pioneering experience.  By the time I have completed the second, I should be getting close to mastering the technique.  I do have a concern.  I have enough power feed joiners to complete this board, but no more.  I have ordered more from Hattons but, at the moment they are out of stock, although on order.  I hope they arrive before I move on to the UP loops.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 03, 2017, 08:22:15 pm
Progress is steady Laurence and looking good.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who does things like catch things with my sleeve. Ham fisted should be my middle name.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 03, 2017, 08:48:43 pm
Progress is steady Laurence and looking good.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who does things like catch things with my sleeve. Ham fisted should be my middle name.

Agreed; that is a LOT of complex track and wiring work. Way beyond me.

I have caught at least one lantern on the platform gas lamps, Martin, with my arm, too. (As can be seen in the daylight photos. If I cannot glue the lantern back into position it will have to be replaced.)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 04, 2017, 06:48:21 am
Two items I forgot to add to last nightís report, both good.  The first is that when I lifted the board into the propped position I had the usual problem that the wiring looms were too short to reach up to the points in the propped position.  I had to make a new one for the branch run around point but I was able to use the original for Point 17, the sole loop exit point on the large board.  I was also able to use the ones removed from the small board to replace all the others, so I only had to make one new loom, which was a big bonus.

The second is that the rebuilt Scott arrived from Hattons yesterday morning.  I tested it and it worked like a dream.  I havenít reprogrammed the address yet because the Jubilee is still in the box and I need to reprogram that address to the old address of the Class 5.   I did manage to reprogram the Class 5 to the milk train address yesterday.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on February 04, 2017, 07:32:07 am
Great progress Laurence, coming along very nicely
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 04, 2017, 10:53:23 am
That's excellent news, Laurence. I look forward to seeing your new addition on a train, in due course.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 04, 2017, 06:17:56 pm
Hereís the picture that I forgot to take yesterday, 46122 ďRoyal Ulster RiflemanĒ making its way along the UP line towards Marton Hinmarche after inspecting the on-going works on the DOWN loops. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-040217173438-48248202.jpeg)

I would have liked to have displayed a picture of the full train of eleven coaches behind it, but there is no room at the station at the moment, with all tracks occupied by other trains.  Once the DOWN loops are completed I will be able to store trains there.  However, tomorrow, I will see if I can reverse the local goods into the goods yard and move the local passenger, hauled by the 2-6-4T into the goods loop as a temporary measure.  If so, I will be able to assemble the train behind 46122.  There should be three first class carriages, a restaurant car, a buffet car, five full second class carriages and a brake second.  However, first class carriages are in short supply at the moment and, as a temporary measure, second class ones will be substituted, but reserved for first class ticket holders.  All the carriages will be in rhubarb and custard, apart from the RMB, which has just been repainted in the new LM regional livery of LMS maroon.  At the time of the model, the LMR were starting to repaint their XP passenger stock and their pacific locomotives in the new livery, mainly for the prestige trains such as the Caledonian (non-stop Euston to Glasgow Central) and the Shamrock Express (non-stop boat train from Euston to Liverpool Lime Street).  Others quickly followed, such as the Lancastrian (Euston to Lancaster) and the Royal Scott (Euston to Glasgow Central).  Incidentally, the Caledonian made the 401Ĺ mile journey between London and Glasgow in 400 minutes.

Today I finished installing all the entrance points to the DOWN loops, including fitting the frog droppers and fixing the points in place with Copydex.  I have fitted all the Seeps and checked them mechanically, but I subsequently removed them so that I can solder the wiring looms.  I also decided that I needed to make a new Seep template.  The new one works much better than the original and is less hit and miss.  Finally, I rotated the large loop board back to its original orientation, from which you can see the point work.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-040217173446-48250237.jpeg)

A  more general view is shown here

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-040217173412-482082089.jpeg)

And here is the board in the propped position.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-040217173415-482461886.jpeg)

A more detailed view of the underside of the board reveals the holes for the Seep operating rods and mounting screws, together with the frog droppers.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-040217173422-482471025.jpeg)

When I had finish todayís work, I drilled a 2mm hole in the small board so that I could located the Seep operating rods in it to facilitate soldering the wiring looms.  Thatís tomorrowís task.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-040217173440-48249744.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 04, 2017, 06:40:31 pm
Thanks for the latest update, Laurence, including your new loco. You're making very good progress. I've always considered BR Lined Green with the Late Crest the most attractive livery for steam locos.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 04, 2017, 07:27:43 pm
Thanks for the update Laurence. I rather like Royal Scots and am tempted by one. Hmmm. A Scot in Cornwall?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 04, 2017, 07:41:40 pm
Thanks for the update Laurence. I rather like Royal Scots and am tempted by one. Hmmm. A Scot in Cornwall?
The only drawback with 46122 is the yellow diagonal stripe and the overhead wires warnings on injectors and firebox.  The model pre-dates electrification and, indeed, mainline diesels.  The only mainline diesels at the time were 10201/2/3, 10000/1 and the Deltic, although several classes were were under construction or about to be introduced at the time.  I remember someone claiming to have clocked the Deltic on the Trent Valley (using the quarter mile posts) at 138 mph (6.5 secs)!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 04, 2017, 07:57:17 pm
Thanks for the update Laurence. I rather like Royal Scots and am tempted by one. Hmmm. A Scot in Cornwall?

An enthusiasts' special, like my "Jubilee"? Or that old favourite, a Football Special? 8-)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 04, 2017, 08:21:38 pm
Thanks for the update Laurence. I rather like Royal Scots and am tempted by one. Hmmm. A Scot in Cornwall?

An enthusiasts' special, like my "Jubilee"? Or that old favourite, a Football Special? 8-)
Well, the Scotts certainly ran into New street from Bristol and Cardiff (and on to Newcastle) so one from Plymouth shouldn't be out of the question.  So a Scott or Jubilee (or even a Stanier Class 5) holiday special to Penzance should be a real possibility. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on February 05, 2017, 07:55:15 am
Thanks for the update Laurence, making good progress
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 05, 2017, 09:02:12 pm
Today started so well.  As promised, I moved the local goods into the goods yard and parked the local passenger in the goods shed loop.  Then I was able to assemble the XP passenger behind 46122.  Hereís a picture of it approaching Marton Hinmarche at speed.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-050217205727-483302370.jpeg)

It thundered through the station and I managed to get a shot of it from the front.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-050217205719-483182214.jpeg)

There was also an aerial shot of the station showing The XP passenger passing the intermediate passenger waiting at Platform 2.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-050217205720-483292132.jpeg)

After that I wired the first of the points to be laid and fitted it.  Unfortunately, it wouldnít operate under power.  At that point I took a long break.  When I came back, I tried it again and it worked fine.  I canít explain that.  The next two points went well and I wired up the fourth ready to fit it, before taking another break.  When I returned, it just would not work under power.  I tried adjusting it slightly (which you can do with the stand-offs) and I was able to make it work in the reset position, but not in the turnout position.  I tried everything and even changed the Seep, but to no effect.  I lifted the point and tried it, but it was extremely freely moving.  I drilled out the operating rod hole to 10mm, but when I assembled everything again, the result was ďno changeĒ.  So I am stumped for the moment.  Iíll have another go tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on February 05, 2017, 09:38:23 pm
Are you really running trains or just posing them, Laurence?
I ask purely because in the middle pic of your latest post there seems to be a fair bit of white debris on the baseboards although, I admit, it could just be white glue :-\
I'm just concerned about locos picking up 'bits' which could enter mechanisms :worried:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 05, 2017, 09:41:11 pm
Hopefully you sort the problem tomorrow Laurence. I had a related problem a couple of weeks back which was intermittent. I resorted to fitting a new point and that corrected the problem. I couldn't see anything wrong with the original but hey, who knows ?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: paulprice on February 05, 2017, 09:45:06 pm
Today started so well.  As promised, I moved the local goods into the goods yard and parked the local passenger in the goods shed loop.  Then I was able to assemble the XP passenger behind 46122.  Hereís a picture of it approaching Marton Hinmarche at speed.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-050217205727-483302370.jpeg[/url])

It thundered through the station and I managed to get a shot of it from the front.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-050217205719-483182214.jpeg[/url])

There was also an aerial shot of the station showing The XP passenger passing the intermediate passenger waiting at Platform 2.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-050217205720-483292132.jpeg[/url])

After that I wired the first of the points to be laid and fitted it.  Unfortunately, it wouldnít operate under power.  At that point I took a long break.  When I came back, I tried it again and it worked fine.  I canít explain that.  The next two points went well and I wired up the fourth ready to fit it, before taking another break.  When I returned, it just would not work under power.  I tried adjusting it slightly (which you can do with the stand-offs) and I was able to make it work in the reset position, but not in the turnout position.  I tried everything and even changed the Seep, but to no effect.  I lifted the point and tried it, but it was extremely freely moving.  I drilled out the operating rod hole to 10mm, but when I assembled everything again, the result was ďno changeĒ.  So I am stumped for the moment.  Iíll have another go tomorrow.


The Scott looks brilliant
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 06, 2017, 06:43:00 am
Are you really running trains or just posing them, Laurence?
I ask purely because in the middle pic of your latest post there seems to be a fair bit of white debris on the baseboards although, I admit, it could just be white glue :-\
I'm just concerned about locos picking up 'bits' which could enter mechanisms :worried:
Yes, I really did run the train through the station at full speed, although I have to confess to stopping it to pose the pictures.  I don't know what the white debris is.  It's not there to the naked eye.  I can only think that the flash on my camera is picking out the dried Copydex around the track.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 06, 2017, 08:07:34 am
Another problem that I will have to deal with, but forgot about in yesterday's report, what with all the disapPOINTment, was the Jubilee.  I had already reprogrammed the Class 5 from Loco 9 to Loco 7 for the milk train.  The plan then was to reprogram the Jubilee from Loco 8 to Loco 9 so that I could reprogram the Scott to Loco 8.  Unfortunately the Jubilee did not respond to Loco 8, nor any other Loco ID so, although I was able to program the Scott to Loco 8, I will have to resurrect my programming track to find the current address of the Jubilee.  I had dismantled the programming track because I can do anything else, other than reading the current Loco ID, by programming on main.  If the worst comes to the worst, I will have to try another chip in the Jubilee.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 06, 2017, 07:48:02 pm
Today finished in a very upbeat fashion.  However, getting there was pretty tortuous.  No, I didnít sort out the Jubilee.  Iíve decided that can wait until I have finished the DOWN loops at least.  So I concentrated on the dodgy point.  Yesterday I tried fiddling with the position of the Seep, with no luck.  I then changed the Seep, but that also made no difference.  I also enlarged the hole for the Seep operating rod to 10mm diameter, but again without achieving anything.  Today I tried a new point, but there was still no improvement.  I removed the Seep stand-off and filled in the existing screw holes with match stick ends so that I could start again.  I very carefully re-drilled the mounting points for the Seep, but again to no effect.  The Seep could be moved mechanically to change the point with about the same effort as all the others, so why was there a problem?  Then I remembered that, when I first installed the initial Seep on the board, it wouldnít work under power.  I tried all the points on the board again and they mainly worked OK, but occasionally one would fail to change.  It was as though there was a lack of power.  I connected the offending point to a so far unused output on the Digikeijs, but there was no improvement.

At this point I was at my witsí end.  I measured the voltage to the power side of the Digiokeijs under operation and found that when I switched any of the points, it fell from 15.5v to about 10v.  Because I have a digital meter with a fairly slow sampling rate, the drop-off could have been even worse than that.  So I kept the monitoring in place and tried switching points on other boards.  The voltage drop was less and the closer to the power supply, the less the drop.  So it looked like a resistance problem.  I measured the end to end resistance of each pole and it showed about 1.7 Ohms.  That doesnít sound too bad, but the resistance must have been associated with the little plugs and sockets I had used to make the layout modular.  If the current increased to 1.5A or more under switching, the resistance of the plug contacts could have become greater, so I decided to run a temporary, direct link from the power supply to the Digikeijs.  The difference was remarkable.  It worked like a dream.

I then decided that I would bypass some of the plugs and sockets by soldering links directly from board to board.  This meant crawling on my hands and knees under the boards and working in very poor light.  After two bypasses, the point was still unreliable.  At this stage, I decided to run a direct connection around the undersides of the boards.  Once done Ė Hey Presto! - Problem solved.  All that activity took almost all day, but I couldnít resist running the Scott around the whole length of the existing DOWN line again.  Itís a joy to see it running at a scale 60mph plus!  Oh, and mystery about the white debris.  Itís not white at all.  Itís residue sawdust from drilling the boards for the Seeps.  No pictures today, but Iíll try to post some tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 06, 2017, 08:02:35 pm
Very glad you've solved the problem, Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 06, 2017, 08:04:56 pm
I admire the way in which you beaver away till you solve the problem Laurence.
I find that walking away then returning often helps in finding a solution.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on February 06, 2017, 08:21:39 pm
I'm very glad your persistence paid off, Laurence, even though I understood very little of your post :-[ :dunce:
I did understand about the sawdust from drilling, though, and would advise a quick vacuum before running trains :uneasy:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 06, 2017, 08:44:59 pm
Thanks NPN.  I thought I had blown it all off the boards, but the residue seems to have stuck, possibly to fragments of Copydex.  It's not likely to get into the works and I will eventually have to pick it off piece by piece.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on February 07, 2017, 10:15:58 am
I am pleased to see you got it working Laurence,resistance is futile you will work......he he. No it just shows what resistance in the wiring g can do, I am using a simple cdu on my fiddle yard and fortunately it does nother seem to be lacking power. I am using the Gauge master one not a Peco unit,by the way which I believe is not has powerfull. I must run  some trains on my layout, it might gee me up a bit.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 07, 2017, 06:18:55 pm
So it took me two days to complete what should have been half a dayís work.  I canít say I am two days behind schedule because I donít have a schedule, but it does feel like that.  However, today has been a much better day.  I completed the wiring of the ďrogueĒ point and then went on to complete all three of the outstanding points on the DOWN loops.  All tested OK and the wiring is complete.  Now I have begun work on completing the Shipton branch run around.  The run around track is laid and pinned down ready for Copydexing.  The terminal point is pinned in place ready for marking out and drilling for the Seep fixings.  Once the terminal point is installed and tested itís just a question of installing the forward shunt from the point.  Iím sorry there are no pictures today, although I did run the Grange-hauled intermediate passenger round the UP line.  Itís a bit graunchy and needs a proper running in, but it was good to have a go with something else for a change.

The reason for no pictures is that I left my camera in the train shed overnight and the batteries got cold and the camera refused to start up.  It does gobble up Duracell batteries.  Iíve now bought some lithium batteries which will last considerably longer.  I used to run it on Ansmann rechargeables but the charger failed some years ago and I have been using my phone ever since.  I think Iíll buy a new charger and some more rechargeable batteries.

Tomorrow I hope Iíll be able to get on to installing the first loop.  Each of the loops will require a separate pair of droppers and the feed to the points will then be back via the fixed rails.  Iím really looking forward to completing the loops because then I will have somewhere to store the trains ready to run.  The good news is that Hattons have now restocked with power feed joiners and my order has been packed ready for shipping, so they should arrive in a day or so.  I have enough to hand to complete the DOWN loops, but I will need the new ones for the UP loop boards.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on February 07, 2017, 06:44:21 pm
Thanks for the update Laurence.

I know how frustrating a camera catching a cold can be. One of mine 'died' while driving over the top of Andorra so I missed some first class pictures.

I've found these people supply good quality chargers and rechargeable batteries:

https://www.7dayshop.com/batteries-power-chargers (https://www.7dayshop.com/batteries-power-chargers)

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Skyline2uk on February 07, 2017, 07:15:26 pm
I do enjoy reading these updates, it feels like a great compendium for future reference on great modelling projects.

It certainly is a lesson in logical planning and progression.

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Maurits71 on February 07, 2017, 07:40:01 pm
second that
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on February 08, 2017, 06:55:42 am
Laurence,

2 steps forward and 1 3/4 steps back still represents progress. This sort of thing and worse happens to me all the time as I'm sure it does to others. Occasionally, an anticipated 2 day job takes me 1/2 a day and that makes me really happy.

Keep up the good work
Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on February 08, 2017, 07:37:46 am
Credit to you for your perseverance and great to hear you had a positive outcome.  Those long trains look great already, can't wait to see them once you get the scenery started
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 08, 2017, 07:17:57 pm
At last, we seem to be getting on fine without a hiatus.  First, I managed to get a picture of 6837 Forthampton Grange on the approach to Marton Hinmarche, with its train of ten coaches rounding the curve.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-080217190559-484251554.jpeg)

I only managed a little over an hour and a half in the train shed today, but I was able to complete the installation of the Shipton run around as you can see here.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-080217190538-483852302.jpeg)

The points are installed and tested and the power droppers all connected, so I now have to complete all the loops.  What a relief that will be!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on February 08, 2017, 07:24:44 pm
Coming along nicely.  :thumbsup:

Great long train!

Hope the Grange behaves and is loads better than the one I had.

Dave G

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 08, 2017, 07:34:41 pm
Thanks for the excellent photos., Laurence. It's always good to see trains on the track.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 09, 2017, 09:03:22 am
Marton Hinmarche doesnít have any connections with Dr Who, but it does have a resident Dr How who dabbles a bit with time travel.  He doesnít have anything as advanced as a Tardis, but is able to traverse a decade or two by closing his eyes and using a form ethereal transport.  He also doesnít have any of the glamorous assistants assigned to Dr Who, but he does have a companion called Flipper.  She used to be a mermaid and the good doctor rescued her when he found her beached on a sand bank in the estuary below Borth-y-Gest, while he was on Holiday in Wales during his younger days.  With the help of his lifelong friend, Dr Dooalot, he was able to transform her to human form and she has been his devoted companion ever since.  He hopes that one day he will be able to transport himself far enough back in time to be able to build a branch line from Porthmadog to Borth-y-Gest and use some form of ethereal connection to link it to Marton Hinmarche.

During one of his ethereal transportations, the good Doctor travelled forward two decades and found that the Ayelsbury and Worcester Railway was powered mainly by Class 50s, Class 47s and the occasional Peak.  During that visit, he took a train from Marton to Blackpool to attend a conference.  It was a fifteen coach train pulled, coincidentally, by no less than 50023 ďHoweĒ.  There is a loop from the A&W to the west of Inkberrow that links with the old Midland mainline from Birmingham New Street to Bristol.  It was only when he heard the classic ďbloop, bloopĒ of the Class 50 getting louder and working harder, while the train began to slow significantly, that he realised that it must by climbing the Lickey Incline.  It made it over the top through Barnt Green Station at a racy 15mph, which isnít bad for a single loco pulling well over 500 Tons.  On the return journey the train, also of fifteen coaches, this time hauled by a Class 47, hurtled down the bank at full tilt with the brakes full on while failing to slow down.  He hoped none of the other passengers would realise that the brakes were fully applied simply to prevent the train from going any faster.  Had there been any cause to stop, there would certainly have been a crash.  As that train passed through Bart Green, he noticed a sign at the end of the platform ďAll trains must stop here to pin down brakesĒ.  Obviously the notice did not apply to passenger trains!

That helter-skelter descent of the Lickey Incline reminded him of a journey in his recent past, when he took the 3.00 pm Paddington express from Birmingham Snow Hill to Leamington Spa.  The train was twenty four coaches long and double-headed by a King, piloted by a Hall.  The descent of Hatton Bank was similarly rapid with the train brakes fully applied by the time the train passed through Warwick station.  The brakes remained fully on until Leamington Spa, fortunately with enough braking effort to bring the train to a halt in Leamington Spa General.  There could be more about further exploits of the good Doctor in a future post.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 09, 2017, 10:04:52 am
Thanks for the entertaining stories, Laurence. Near Cant Cove there is a very secluded rock, on the estuary edge, known as Mermaid's Rock where one of Flipper's (surely not her real name) relatives can be seen -- if you know where to look -- sunning herself and combing her lovely long hair.

"Most mermaids can also walk on land, and swap between their tails and human-like legs.

Jewellery -  Some mermaids wear magical gems called Moonstones. These can come in the form of necklaces, crowns or moon-rings. [Cant Cove's woman-of-the-sea guards a small treasure chest of Moonstones.]

Behaviour - Most mermaids will transform back into their natural state when they come in contact with water.  So they will avoid water, on land, at all costs.

 - The full moon has a huge effect on mermaids. They can become mesmerised and almost put into a trance by the full moon.

Voices - Some mermaids have beautiful, mesmerising singing voices."
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 09, 2017, 07:14:19 pm
Good progress today!  I only managed a couple of hours in the train shed today, but itís all very encouraging.  I thought I would start with a picture of Stanier Class 5, 45206, heading out from the milk loop with a train of 12 milk tankers.  It is seen here crossing over the branch and making progress towards the UP main.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-090217182410-48435260.jpeg)

But now for the real work.  I managed to complete two of the eight DOWN storage loops.  Itís all a bit of a fiddle because bending the Peco streamline track can be a somewhat frustrating.  I first tried a small vice to keep the ends of the rails in line at one end of the track while I bent it to shape.  However, I found that, as soon as I tried to adjust the bend, which I needed to do on almost every occasion to get things just right, the alignment was lost and I had to start again.  But it is even more difficult than that because the other end then moves and it is difficult to determine where to cut the rails.  However, I have resorted to using a pair of six inch pliers to hold the rails and, although it is still a fiddle, I found it to be a usable method.  It just means I have to go back over what I have done and bend the rail back and re-bend it.  Mainly, the problem is that I can get the rail bent to shape, but then have to remove it to cut the ends, and file the rails, etc.  Then, when I come to reinstall it, the rails have moved.  This problem repeats itself when I remove the rail to add the Copydex.  But Iím getting there slowly.  Hereís a picture of the two loops laid.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-090217182309-484262449.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 09, 2017, 07:34:14 pm
Thanks Laurence. The Black 5 looks very good at the head of those milk tankers.
By the way, I know how you feel bending the flexitrack lengths. I find it very frustrating (not that I use too much of it).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on February 09, 2017, 07:42:01 pm
Great stuff, Laurence.

I'm sure all of us that work with flexi have faced the same or similar challenge when cutting the track to fit into a curve.

There's a gizmo that can help hold the curve.

http://www.petersspares.com/proses-ftn01-flexible-track-holding-tool-for-n-gauge-colours-vary-pk2.ir (http://www.petersspares.com/proses-ftn01-flexible-track-holding-tool-for-n-gauge-colours-vary-pk2.ir)

Not used one but with the amount of work you still have to do, it may be worth a try.

HTH

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 09, 2017, 08:02:19 pm
Great stuff, Laurence.

I'm sure all of us that work with flexi have faced the same or similar challenge when cutting the track to fit into a curve.

There's a gizmo that can help hold the curve.

[url]http://www.petersspares.com/proses-ftn01-flexible-track-holding-tool-for-n-gauge-colours-vary-pk2.ir[/url] ([url]http://www.petersspares.com/proses-ftn01-flexible-track-holding-tool-for-n-gauge-colours-vary-pk2.ir[/url])

Not used one but with the amount of work you still have to do, it may be worth a try.

HTH

Dave G
Thanks Dave.  I have order two pairs, which should be enough to complete each half circle.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 10, 2017, 06:45:36 pm
It looks as though Graham Farish have stopped making first class carriages in rhubarb and custard.  So Iíll have to adapt some SKs by adding a ď1Ē to the doors, if I can work out how to do it.  More difficult will be the blue ďFirstĒ stickers for the windows.  I see that Fox Transfers sell both, although to get the ď1Ēs for the doors it seems you have to buy a sheet with a lot of other markings that I would not necessarily want.

But back to today.  First, I thought you might like to see a picture of the local goods in the goods yard, which will not be a frequent place for it, because it will normally be assigned to the goods shed and goods platform served by the goods loop.  Here it is, headed by the 57XX.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-100217183230-48454635.jpeg)

Next, I have made really good progress with the DOWN loops today.  By lunchtime I had completed two more loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-100217183202-484532209.jpeg)

This afternoon, because it was a cold day with sleet and snow, I decided to make up the log burner to keep us nice and cosy this evening.  Then I returned to the Train Shed where I completed two further loops.  So there are now six loops finished out of a total of eight, including fitting the power droppers.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-100217183159-4843650.jpeg)

Of course, once all eight are complete, I will have to connect up the droppers and then re-align the DOWN loop boards.  Getting the tracks to align will probably involve the copious use of track pins, which may take a little time.  But, by the end of the weekend, I may be in business for parking some of the trains in the storage loops.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 10, 2017, 07:09:02 pm
Sounds like excellent progress today Laurence.
The pannier looks really good at the head of that goods train.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on February 10, 2017, 08:37:05 pm
Great to see the progress you're making, Laurence.

It looks as though Graham Farish have stopped making first class carriages in rhubarb and custard. 

If you mean Crimson/Cream then Farish show the following MK1 1st class FKs have been made:-

374-150  running number M13004
374-150A running number M13062
374-150B running number M13060
374-160 running number M13060 ( ???)

Whether you can find them or not is another matter :hmmm:
I have a 374-150A but will not be selling, I'm afraid :no:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 10, 2017, 08:45:15 pm
These any good Laurence ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332)

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on February 10, 2017, 08:48:47 pm
These any good Laurence ?
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332[/url])


Excellent find, Martin!!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on February 10, 2017, 09:32:13 pm
These any good Laurence ?
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332[/url])


Excellent find, Martin!!


As it is a 'Rails' Best Offer item, I usually find that an offer of 10-15% off the asking price usually works.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on February 11, 2017, 05:21:02 am
It looks as though Graham Farish have stopped making first class carriages in rhubarb and custard.  So Iíll have to adapt some SKs by adding a ď1Ē to the doors, if I can work out how to do it.  More difficult will be the blue ďFirstĒ stickers for the windows.  I see that Fox Transfers sell both, although to get the ď1Ēs for the doors it seems you have to buy a sheet with a lot of other markings that I would not necessarily want.


Laurence

I suspect that you may have more difficulty in converting SKs into FKs than just applying transfers. I have maroon mk1 SKs as well as a FK. The FK has 7 compartments and windows whereas the SKs have 8 giving a bit less room per compartment. I'm not knowledgeable on UK rolling stock, but it seems likely that the rhubarb and custard mk1s are going to show the same differentiation in compartment and window numbers. Best bet might be to get some off Ebay as suggested by others.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 11, 2017, 06:30:05 am
These any good Laurence ?
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332[/url])
Thanks for a very good prompt, Martin.  I have ordered them.  I already have a restaurant car, but I expect I will find a use for the other.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: weave on February 11, 2017, 07:37:12 am
These any good Laurence ?
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-RAKE-OF-4-ASSORTED-BR-CRIMSON-CREAM-MKI-COACHES-10X-/192095403332[/url])
Thanks for a very good prompt, Martin.  I have ordered them.  I already have a restaurant car, but I expect I will find a use for the other.


Morning Laurence,

Glad you got them. You can't have too many restaurant cars by the way. I've got seven. I love 'em.

I think it stems from travelling by with my late father around Europe. He was a newspaper journalist but also a freelance railway travel writer.

We always seemed to be in the restaurant car/ bar car for most of our journeys. I remember in Italy when I was about 10 that the buffet car supposedly only sold red wine by the litre bottle and after the meal, because it was hot and he didn't like coca cola like me, lots of tonic waters were imbibed. Oh the innocence of youth!

He'll be turning in his grave, not because I told you that, but because I wrote 'got' and not purchased or bought for the first one and just have for the second.

Sorry, waffling on.

Did you cancel your track fixing Gizmo. You seem to be doing well without it. I wouldn't have the patience.

Keep up the good work. It's going to look fantastic (already does actually).

Cheers weave  :beers:

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 11, 2017, 07:42:56 am
We have heard about the influence of Dr Who in Cant Cove and of Dr How in Marton Hinmmarche.  But they are just two of the Interrogative Seven.  Dr What is said to have invented an early prototype of the Tardis that was driven by steam, where he used the expansion of steam to expand time and space.  Dr Which is often mistakenly known as the witch doctor.  He was probably the person who discovered water divining using a forked witch hazel twig.  Dr Why is often to be found in and around Monmouth and often breaks new ground by looking for the unexplained.  Dr When is thought to be the inventor of time travel and currently lives in North Shropshire under a pseudonym.  Dr Where resides in Sunderland and is thought to have extended the concept of time travel to encompass space-time.

The Interrogative Seven have been known under many guises.  In Japan they are known as the Seven Samurai.  In American folklore they appear as the Magnificent Seven.  It is even rumoured that the 1950s Holywood film ďSeven Brides for Seven BrothersĒ was based on them.  The only fact that we can be sure of is that they are all railway enthusiasts.  Without them, we would just have to accept everything as we see it.  They enable us to question things and attempt to recreate what happened long ago (and in the future).

Did you cancel your track fixing Gizmo.
I haven't cancelled the order because, although I can finish the DOWN loops without them, the complicated bits on the Up loops will be much easier with them.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 11, 2017, 11:43:11 am
Thanks, Laurence. Very interesting. Doctor Who is able to visit multiple timelines, each one different from the others. (The Multiverse Theory -- the hypothetical set of possible universes, including the universe in which we live.) The Interrogative Seven operate in theirs quite independently.

Whilst the visits of Doctor Who and his granddaughter, Susan, to London in 1962-63 are well-documented, their visits to North Cornwall are much less known (as is the time that Elvis spent at Cant Cove -- documented much earlier in the Cant Cove thread). In general, the influence of Doctor Who is mainly confined to Sylvia Trevelver's jouneys in time whilst Susan is a member of the "Chelsea Girls".

However, back in the 1930s, Doctor Who secretly co-operated with Oliver Bulleid, (Chief Mechanical Engineer of the Southern Railway between 1937 and the 1948 nationalisation) in the otherwise unknown field of elemental engineering. Nos. 34065 "Spitfire" and 34066 "Hurricane" incorporate the top secret results of this collaboration which results in astonishing levels of performance under certain conditions! (As a result, the CLPG has preserved, in North Cornwall, both locos. in their BR Early Crest livery.)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 11, 2017, 06:47:06 pm
Today is a good news/bad news day.  The bad news is actually nothing to do with the Train Shed.  My Davis weather station has gone down.  It happened before about 5 years ago.  The sensor unit has a photo-voltaic cell and a large capacitor, which keeps it going for days when there has been no Sun.  Today it decided to pack up.  I can kick start it again with a new battery, but that means getting my tower out and climbing up in the rain.  I hope it will be more clement tomorrow.  Unfortunately, there will be a gap in my data.  Hereís a picture of the outstation.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-110217182844-48475981.png)

Everything else is (nearly) all good.  First, the track gizmos arrived.  This what they look like.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-110217174037-48462459.jpeg)

The reason that it's only nearly all good is that the gizmos are quite difficult to work.  Unfortunately, they donít grip the track very securely and can easily fall off.  In the end, I found the best way to proceed was to position the track as usual with pins and then, one by one, remove the pins and insert a Gizmo.  When they were all in place, I could (very carefully) lift the track and work on the ends to get the right rail lengths and file the slots for the joiners, etc.  Once or twice the gizmos became detached, but it seemed to be a bit of an improvement.  Here they are at work, so to speak.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-110217173752-484552369.jpeg)

Finally, all eight DOWN loops were complete, as you can see here.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-110217173802-484601356.jpeg)

I have now connected all the power droppers to the DCC bus and tomorrow I will start the live test of the loops, using the 57XX.  It will identify any problems with the Seep operating rods, which can foul the 57XX most easily. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on February 11, 2017, 06:59:33 pm
Disappointed for you that the gizmos aren't quite as good as they could be.

I was going to suggest you taking a look at the several YouTube vids on working with the things but seems that you have the best handle on them.

Do hope they weren't a total waste of hard earned!

Take care fixing that weather station.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on February 11, 2017, 10:27:06 pm
 :hellosign: Thanks for the updates Laurence & hope all goes well with the weather station
     regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 12, 2017, 12:02:57 pm
The forthcoming A4 event in Perth has prompted me to describe a future rail journey that we will be making at the end of the summer of 2017.  We will pick up the 12.00 ex-Kings Cross train at its first stop at York, departing 13.55, arriving at Inverness at 20.04.  Itís many years since we made a long rail journey and thirty years since I last went to Inverness.  I donít think thereíll be any A4s there, but you never know.  I suppose we could visit the NRM on our return, but there may be other opportunities to do that, direct from home.  I have booked a room at the Royal Highland Hotel, which is attached to the railway station.  We are staying for a few days and plan to do the usual activities: the Nessie museum at Drumnadrochit, a salmon leap, a distillery, etc.  It would also be good to take the train to Kyle of Lochalsh.  Itís a beautifully scenic route.  I might even be tempted to take the train to Wick or Thurso as well.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 12, 2017, 12:31:44 pm
Hi Laurence.
I can recommend that trip. We do quite a few longish rail journies in UK and Europe. Its easily the best way to see the scenery.
We stayed in Inverness for a few days and did indeed take the scenic route to Kyle of Lochalsh and also the splendid line up to Thurso and Wick. Wick is very remote but interesting (we stayed in an excellent B&B for 2 nights).
The line from Dingwall northwards is so remote and rugged and you'll see lots of wild deer and, if lucky, an eagle or two.
And, yes, as a collector of single malts I recommend a distillery or two. Maybe Old Pulteney if you get up to Wick.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 12, 2017, 07:36:22 pm
I usually visit the Train Shed and the greenhouse before we do anything else, even if we are going out for a while.  I do it mainly to check the temperature, but I usually do a couple of odd jobs in the Train Shed while Iím there.  Today was no exception.  I decided to remove all the pins that I had used to hold the loops in place while the Copydex cured.  Well, I had a surprise when I started to remove the pins on the first section of track, only to have it move about all over the place.  It seems that I had omitted to add the Copydex to that section.  A quick lick of Copydex and re-pinning sorted the problem.  I was then able to remove the rest of the pins without further ado.

After we had been out, I removed the pins from the rogue section and began to test the track with the 57XX. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-120217180244-4853135.jpeg)

I chose the 57XX because its rail level side guards (Iím not sure of their purpose), are fouled by the Seep point operating rods if they are too long, so itís a good check on the trimming of the rods.  There were a few hiccups, where the rail joins caused a problem, but the use of a needle file and several track pins sorted them out.  Once it was OK with the 57XX, I then tested everything again with the 2-6-4T. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-120217180251-48532487.jpeg)

There were some more problem rail joints that caused either the pony or the bogie to derail.  Once again, slight realignment with track pins and more filing eventually sorted it out.  Loop 18 had one joint that I was not 100% happy with, but the 2-6-4T would never run on that loop.  It will be used by the 57XX and the Mickey (sorry, Class 5).  So I tested it with the Class 5 and it was fine.

As an aside, in the Midlands, Class 5s were always known as Mickeys.  I donít know why.  I first came across the term aged eight when I asked an older boy the name of a loco that had just thundered through my local station.  I thought he said it was Mickey, but my older brother explained that ďMickeyĒ was a term used for locos with no name.  Well, he was nearly right.  And, of course, four of them did have names.

Once all the loops had been tested and found to be OK, I took one last look at the underside of the board before screwing it down.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-120217180239-48530444.jpeg)

Then came the rather fiddly task of aligning all the tracks,  The system I had dreamed up of sliding the joiners along the rails and the sliding them back once the board was screwed down turned out to be an excellent idea.  One or two benefitted from a few addition track pins to take the strain off the joiners but, otherwise it all worked well.  I now wish Iíd used that system across all the joins, but I will bare that in mind for the UP loops.  Some of the other joins were reasonably aligned, again with the support of track pins.  I still need to complete all the joins, but here is the join as it was at the end of todayís adventures.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-120217180235-48518928.jpeg)

In the foreground, next to the red pin, you can just make out the heads of three track pins, securing the alignment of the left hand section of track.  There is still more to do, but I should be able to start testing right round from the station soon.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 13, 2017, 08:09:30 am
Baron and Lady Tiverton are really looking forward to their trip to Perthshire.  Now itís getting close, they are really excited.  Itís possible to take the train to Straftord-upon-Avon from Marton Hinmarche, but that would mean two changes with no first class available on one of the trains.  So their trusty Chauffeur, Biddles, will deliver them safely to Stratford station in the Phantom V.  However, they need to know at what time the Green Dragon is due to arrive so as to be there in plenty of time for Biddles to unload the trunk and find a porter.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 13, 2017, 09:45:00 pm
Today was a bad news day.  Not as far as the Train Shed goes, but on the weather station front Ė it is a cold front.  I finally erected my tower and ascended to insert a new kick-start battery in the out station.  I have to allow about an hour to erect the tower and another to put it all away again.  It usually takes less time than that, but if I didnít allow the time, Murphyís law guarantees that something will go wrong.  Anyway, Hereís a picture of the tower in place.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-130217213351-485971966.jpeg)

The really bad news is that the battery did not do the trick.  There must be a fault with the processor and I will have to order a new outstation board.  So no weather reports for a few days.

However, there is really good news about the Train Shed.  It took quite a long time to test and snag all the joints, both across the boards and some others associated with points.  But itís all done.  Hereís a couple of pictures of the 64XX performing its run around of the branch train at the hidden Shipton run around.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-130217213458-48603728.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-130217213450-48601164.jpeg)


And hereís a picture of all the main line trains safely ensconced in the DOWN storage loops.  There is just enough clearance between the two long passenger trains but, in real life they would not be next to each other.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-130217213453-48602249.jpeg)

I also performed a complete DOWN and UP run with the XP passenger hauled by Royal Ulster Rifleman.  I reversed it back along the DOWN main as far as the join to the small UP loop board and then ran it at a fast speed (it sounded like about 75mph) right round the DOWN loops and back to the join with the small UP loop board on the UP line.  It took about 1 min 20 secs, which is about what I would expect at that speed.  So, once the UP loops are finished, I will be able to run every train round and round until I get the correct top speed for each one.  I will be able to determine the correct top speed from the time it takes for a complete circuit.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on February 14, 2017, 09:44:55 am
Great progress Laurence, sorry to hear your weather station is feeling ahem, under the weather, hope you get it fixed soon.

Lovely rail journey planned, hope you get some decent weather, not a route I have travelled by train, but mean to do so at some point
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 14, 2017, 08:46:38 pm
I didnít get too much time in the train shed today.  External matters occupied us until 14:00 and then, because of the lovely sunny weather, garden duties took over for a while.  However, I did eventually get there and the first task was to reconstitute the program track and try to get the Jubilee, 45572 'Eire', going again.  After a few abortive attempts, it responded to ID ď9Ē and then I was able to attach its regulation train of nine coaches.  I reversed it back onto the small UP loops and then ran it through to Marton Hinmarche station.  Hereís a picture of it leaving the station

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-140217201326-486342251.jpeg)

And hereís another of the loco side on as it passed.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-140217201313-486311061.jpeg)

After some shuffling of the trains in the loops, more of which in a minute, I ran it round and parked it along with the other mainline trains.  Here it is waiting for its orders to make its UP run.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-140217201314-48632683.jpeg)

Finally, I decided to park the branch train on its run around to keep the station boards clear and prevent unwanted accidents.  Hereís an overview of them all.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-140217201323-486331362.jpeg)

I had to carry out more snagging on the DOWN loop boards today.  The first thing that raised its head was that it is impossible to have two passenger trains on adjoining loops where the radius is small.  So, although was possible to run the Scott at full speed around the outside loop with an intermediate passenger on the adjoining loop, when I came to move the grange to a new position adjacent to the local passenger hauled by the 2-6-4T, the coaches actually touched and so I shall have to carefully engineer the rosters for loop assignment.  Itís fine to have a goods train next to a passenger, but not two passengers next to each other.

While I was overcoming that problem for the temporary parking, I came across another.  I had noticed yesterday that the six-wheel milk tanks were more likely to derail than anything else.  To rearrange the parked trains, I had to move the milk train and reverse it into another loop.  What I found was that, if there was a slight angle between the points and the adjoining track, the six-wheel vehicles would derail easily, probably because of the flanges and the length of the fixed wheel base.  So I had to get to work with more pins, my 0.7mm drill and some track pins.  Eventually, that solved the problem.  I expect to find more snags on the loop boards because of the curved nature of the track joints, but I should be able to overcome them all.

Finally, I positioned the first point on the small UP loop board and should be ready to start lifting the board and installing all five points.  So tomorrow, I hope to have news about progress on the UP loops.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on February 14, 2017, 09:29:40 pm
The last pic looks quite smoky, Laurence. Had you fired all those wonderful steam locos up at the same time? :laugh3:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Jimbo on February 14, 2017, 10:07:52 pm
The last pic looks quite smoky, Laurence. Had you fired all those wonderful steam locos up at the same time? :laugh3:

It's not just my 'pooter then!  ???.......keep up the great work Laurence, I admire your patience, it'll be a fascinating layout to operate I reckon!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 15, 2017, 06:27:12 am
The last pic looks quite smoky, Laurence. Had you fired all those wonderful steam locos up at the same time? :laugh3:
Actually, the original  turned out to be quite dark and you couldn't see the branch train, so I edited the pic by reducing the contrast and increasing the brightness, resulting in the mistiness.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on February 15, 2017, 07:23:39 am
 :hellosign:   :greatpicturessign:  Many thanks for the updates Laurence, hope you can sort out the weather station. The layout is progressing nicely
        regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Jimbo on February 15, 2017, 07:52:56 am
The last pic looks quite smoky, Laurence. Had you fired all those wonderful steam locos up at the same time? :laugh3:
Actually, the original  turned out to be quite dark and you couldn't see the branch train, so I edited the pic by reducing the contrast and increasing the brightness, resulting in the mistiness.

Ah! I see, that explains it.....i was thinking maybe if the weather station was working surely you would have known the 'fog' was coming!  :thumbsup: (I'm a fine one to talk as far as picture quality is concerned!) keep the updates coming Laurence, great progress being made  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 15, 2017, 06:16:22 pm
Thereís not much to show today by way of pictures, but I have achieved quite a lot.  I have lifted the small UP loop board and fitted props.  I have installed three points, together with their Seeps which have been completely wired up and tested.  The Branch run around was a bit reluctant to reset, so I used the trick I had invented on the DOWN loops and ran a pair of power wires round under the boards, directly to the Digikeijs.  That did the trick nicely and all the points are now in good working order.  I also used track pins to ensure really good track alignment to avoid the pitfalls of the DOWN loops.

Once that was complete, I laid out (but didnít fix) the next two points on the UP entrance to the loops.  This will enable me to cut short lengths of track to join them onto the initial point at that end of the loops.  Hereís a picture of todayís progress, taken at the end of the dayís work.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-150217180030-48677995.jpeg)

I wonít get much done tomorrow because we have planned a trip out by train.  I am not telling where we are going, but I may get some pictures of A4s.  They wonít be in Perthshire (wrong century anyway) but you are invited to guess where they might be.  Iíll post any pictures that might be of interest tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on February 16, 2017, 06:17:48 pm
Hope you had a great day out and look forward to seeing your A4 pics... my initial thought was York, but not sure where the other A4's at the moment
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 16, 2017, 06:33:17 pm
There was no work on the layout today.  But I did get a couple of pictures of A4s.  The first is the world record holder, Mallard.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-160217180225-487242447.jpeg)

Then there was Sir Nigel Gresley in an unusual disguise.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-160217180217-487231672.jpeg)

Youíve probably guessed by now that we went to the NRM at York.  In some ways it was a bit disappointing.  The last time I visited it was thirty years ago, so my expectations were probably unrealistically high.  However, I did get one or two pictures, although the quality is not too good because I had to turn off the flash, leading to long exposures, which means that there was a bit of blurring.  Also, there was a lot of glare from the reflections of the lights.  Hereís the LMS streamlined version of the express passenger locomotive.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-160217180207-48722312.jpeg)

Also the GWR Lode Star, of the Star Class that Pioneered the way for four cylinder locomotives on the GWR.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-160217180227-487252481.jpeg)

And finally, I thought you might like to see a picture of Gladstone.  A friend of mine once told me how a relative of his was travelling from London Victoria in the austerity era, when locomotives were scarce.  As the train struggled up the incline beyond the river, he saw a familiar, but unexpected shadow on the wall alongside the track.  ďThat looks like a GladstoneĒ he said to himself in disbelief.  So he leaned out of the window and there, to his great delight, he indeed saw a Gladstone at the head of the train.  He said that he would not have been surprised to see a bucket of nails hung from the safety valve to increase the boiler pressure, but that was not the case.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-160217180203-487201358.jpeg)

I bought a couple of books while I was there.  One was about A4s, so I may scan in a few pics.  The other was the Ian Allen 1957 combined volume, but made up of the four regional books plus the shed book.  The unusual composition means that there are four copies of the add-on section of BR standard and diesel locomotives, one after each section, whereas my existing 1959 version is a normal combined volume with only one section of BR standard and diesel locomotives.  But the shed book might be useful if anyone wants to find 1957 allocations.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on February 16, 2017, 09:57:37 pm
Nice pics Laurence, it is a few years since I went, would you believe I came out without going in the tunnel to the other platform so missed part of the museum.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on February 16, 2017, 11:17:08 pm
Thank you Laurence

I visited the NRM 9 months ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. Did manage to find the tunnel to the other platform, Chris. Between now and then it seems that they have shifted a few things in and out. The Duchess of Hamilton wasn't there then, nor was the Lode Star (I think). Progress on the overhaul of Sir Nigel Gresley seems to been about zero judging by the latest photo, but presumably all the missing bits are still undergoing refurbishment.

If there was an aspect of the NRM that was a little disappointing to me, it was the lack of freight locomotives and wagons (only a few of these on display).

Webbo 

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 17, 2017, 07:12:59 pm
There have been a few developments today: some practical and some conceptual.  Iíll start off with the practical work, which is something concrete to report.  The major achievement today is the completion of the small UP loops board.  All five points have been installed and tested and all the droppers connected to the DCC bus.  While I was working on the points, I noticed that the droppers from the auxiliary switch on one set of UP points were reversed, so I swapped them in good time.  However, I failed to notice that the droppers on the branch points were also reversed, so when I laid the board flat to test the track, there was a short circuit.  But, once that was identified and rectified, everything went well.  I used the 64XX to test all the track and, electrically, everything was fine.  Mechanically, I found one set of points where one rail had not fitted into the joiner, causing a derailment.  It took a little fiddling, with the track all Copydexed down, but I managed to slide the joiner off the end of the point and slide it far enough onto the adjoining rail to allow a sound join to be made.  Hereís a picture of the 64XX testing the UP and DOWN lines into and out of the loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-170217175657-487492031.jpeg)

After that, I put the 64XX back on the branch train and ran it all the way round from the DOWN loops to test the branch points on the newly competed board.  It tested OK but, when I tried to run the train back to the DOWN loops, it derailed at the board join.  I spent quite a long time trying to make the join good.  It all looked fine, but there must have been a small misalignment.  Eventually I had to remove some of the existing track pins and insert another to align the tracks so that there were no more derailments.  Hereís the branch train on the entrance to the branch Norton run around.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-170217175654-48727584.jpeg)

The board is now screwed down, but requires further fixing before I start to lay the track across the join with the large UP loops board.

I carried out some tests yesterday and today, checking the freedom of movement around the DOWN loops.  It seems I can run passenger trains round the three outer loops without a problem.  However, it then becomes too tight at Loops 4 and 5, so I have hit on the idea of re-allocating the trains to loops so that there is always a freight train on loop 4.  This, together with moving the local goods and milk trains to Loop 6, solves most of the problems.  However, I am having to reschedule the running order and routes to accommodate the changes.  I may have to make some other changes to the timetable, but itís not an insurmountable problem.  So now I have the final board to work on.  Perhaps, after another week, I will be able to start running trains round and round to calibrate their speed.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Skyline2uk on February 17, 2017, 08:10:10 pm
Exciting times, and impressive methodical progress.

This is rapidly becoming a "must follow" thread  :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Dancess on February 17, 2017, 08:11:26 pm
As an aside, in the Midlands, Class 5s were always known as Mickeys.  I donít know why.  I first came across the term aged eight when I asked an older boy the name of a loco that had just thundered through my local station.  I thought he said it was Mickey, but my older brother explained that ďMickeyĒ was a term used for locos with no name.  Well, he was nearly right.  And, of course, four of them did have names.

I've always thought that Mickey Mouse referred to Ivatt Class 2 2-6-0s and I lived in the Midlands. Class 5s were aptly called Black 5s.

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on February 17, 2017, 09:03:05 pm
It was the Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks that were known as Mickey Mouse Tanks. As many were at work on the Southern they were called Mickey Mouse Tanks because, reputedly, as their smokeboxes were quite small, the SR train reporting discs stuck out either side of the smokebox door just below the chimney and from head on they looked like a mouses's ears.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 18, 2017, 06:40:45 am
I've always thought that Mickey Mouse referred to Ivatt Class 2 2-6-0s and I lived in the Midlands. Class 5s were aptly called Black 5s.
Well, I never heard the term Black 5 until years later when I first visited the Severn Valley Railway.  The 2-6-0s were know as Mogies (short for Mogul) and the 2-6-2 tanks were never seen on the main line.  The Nuneaton to Leamington branch was hauled by 2-6-4Ts, as were most of the mainline suburban trains, although, sometimes, a Crab would pull one, often tender first (obviously the crew must have been used to a Tank Engine).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on February 18, 2017, 06:52:54 am
Lawrence, please jog my fading memory.... do I recall you saying earlier on that you ordered concrete sleepered track by mistake?  :hmmm:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 18, 2017, 07:00:42 am
Lawrence, please jog my fading memory.... do I recall you saying earlier on that you ordered concrete sleepered track by mistake?  :hmmm:
Yes I did, but I ordered an additional pack of wooden sleeper track which was enough to complete all the station track, all the branch track and quite a lot of the main line in both directions.  I will be using two packs of concrete sleepers for the hidden loops and I may have a pack left over, but I'll have to wait and see how it pans out.  I'm part of the way through the second pack now, so it may not be enough, but at least I will have plenty of spare track.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on February 18, 2017, 07:20:49 am
Thanks for the memory jog! That's right, I remember now. Of course I could have looked at early posts....  :-[

Thanks, Lawrence. It's looking fantastic, anyhow! :thumbsup: :beers:

George
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Fardap on February 18, 2017, 11:15:20 am
The 2-6-0s were know as Mogies (short for Mogul) and the 2-6-2 tanks were never seen on the main line.

The reason to love English when a six letter word is short for a five letter word  :D

Love the thread Lawrence, check it everyday to see where you have got to, would love to have a space like the train shed to develop a project!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on February 18, 2017, 11:57:03 am
The 2-6-0s were know as Mogies (short for Mogul) and the 2-6-2 tanks were never seen on the main line.

The reason to love English when a six letter word is short for a five letter word  :D

Love the thread Lawrence, check it everyday to see where you have got to, would love to have a space like the train shed to develop a project!

Has above  :thumbs: would love to have a bigger shed.           :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 18, 2017, 06:54:28 pm
Iím quite pleased with today, on the whole.  I had quite a few garden jobs to do, with the weather being reasonably clement (probably Froid rather than Atlee).  But earlier this morning I set about solving the conceptual problems that I identified yesterday.  I have reallocated the trains to loops and it all seems OK now.  I have confined passenger trains to Loops 1, 2 and 3 plus 5 and 7 for the UP loops (similarly, 11,12 and 13 plus 15 and 17 for the DOWN loops.  Loops 4, 6 and 8 (14, 16 and 18) are reserved for goods trains.  This provides adequate space between the loops for trains to pass.  I have transposed this onto my feasibility worksheet and, in many ways, it gives a simpler running order than before (serendipity).  I have yet to complete mapping onto routes and I might need more that the available 31 routes but, given that I have abandoned the idea of using routes during operations, this is of no consequence.

On the practical front, I have laid all eight pieces of linking track across the join between the small UP loops board and the large board.  This may not seem like a large increment in the progress of the project, but it represents quite a bit of work, cutting, bending and filing each piece to length and ensuring that the joiners will fit easily to the ends of each section of track.  I have also fitted the droppers to the sections of track on the branch run around.  Hereís a picture of todayís progress:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-180217174719-48750454.jpeg)

Iím afraid thatís the only picture for today, but I am now in a position to pin each linking section of track either side of each join and cut the rails ready to lift the large board.  I hope to be able to lift it tomorrow and fit the props to support it while I work on the underside. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on February 19, 2017, 11:26:18 am
 :hellosign: Thanks for the latest updates Laurence, love your methodical thinking & working   :greatpicturessign:
      regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 19, 2017, 06:16:39 pm
Today began again with gardening duties, after a walk along the river.  It has been a fine day with plenty of sunshine, so I had to spend some time outside.  However, by lunchtime, I was able to get back in the Train Shed.  I have cut the tracks and lifted the large UP loops board.  After I secured all the props for tilting the board I replaced all the wiring looms that need to be longer, as with the DOWN board.  However, there was less of a problem this time because there were several looms that I had removed previously which were usable here.

I replaced the board, but rotated through 90 degrees to allow me to work on the back.  So far, I have fitted four points, together with the connecting track sections.  I have also installed the Seeps to them all and checked them for mechanical soundness.  I wonít be connecting them electrically until I rotate the board back to its correct orientation because the looms arenít long enough to reach the points with the board rotated.  Hereís todayís picture showing the progress so far.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-190217174329-48809368.jpeg)

So now I am on the last board and there are just seven points to lay, two more on the DOWN exit from the loops, four more on the UP access to the loops and one on the branch Norton run around.   It's starting to feel like I'm getting towards the end of track laying. :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on February 20, 2017, 11:42:09 am
Good steady progress Laurence, thanks for the update
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Jimbo on February 20, 2017, 04:08:54 pm
Phew!  :sweat:......nice feeling eh? Great stuff Laurence!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 20, 2017, 07:15:07 pm
Today I have finished laying all the exit points from the UP loops to the DOWN main.  The frog droppers are all fitted and the Seeps have been installed, but they are not yet wired.  They have all been check for sound mechanical operation.  I then had four access points from the UP main to lay to complete the array of loop points.  I have drilled the boards for the Seeps to fit beneath them, but I didnít fit the Seeps because it is quite difficult to fit them in the rotated position and it will be much easier with the board in its normal lifted position.  But I fitted the frog droppers and fixed them in place with Copydex.  Once all that was complete, it remained only to re-rotate the board back into its (approximate) position for screwing down.  Here you can see the result.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-200217182010-48888820.jpeg)

Itís all very encouraging.  Hereís another picture showing the points in more detail.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-200217182017-488891034.jpeg)

And finally, here is a view of the underside of the board in its lifted position. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-200217182001-488611642.jpeg)

Over the next couple of days I should be able to wire and test all the Seeps on the far side of the board and fit, wire and test all the other Seeps.  That will leave me with the branch Norton run around far point to fit and then it will be on with the loops.  Once complete, I will be able to screw the board down.  I will, of course, need to snag the joins but, hopefully, in about a weekís time, I will be able to start running trains in a complete circuit to run them in and calibrate them for normal operations.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on February 20, 2017, 07:38:56 pm
Excellent, great to see your concise updates .. always clear and to the point  :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 21, 2017, 07:31:54 pm
Today was a good news bad news day.  First, the good news: the replacement PCB for the weather station arrived this morning.  The bad news is that it cost the best part of £200.  However, the good news is that I managed to fit it.  Here is a picture of the old one.  The new one is identical. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-210217190450-489091368.jpeg)

I put up the tower and re-installed the weather station.  I only took an hour to erect and dismantle the tower, so that is indeed good news.  I must be getting better with frequent practise.  However, there is more potentially bad news.  The outstation is reporting low battery voltage.  This may be because I continued to use the battery that I had fitted to the old outstation.  I will have to see how things go.  If we donít get a lot of sun in the next few days, I may have to re-erect the tower and fit a pristine new battery.

The bad news associated with this is that I was unable to spend as long in the Train Shed as I would have liked today.  But I did make quite a bit of progress.  I was able to remove all six Seeps on the UP loops exit to the DOWN main, wire them up and re-install them.  Hereís a picture of the board in the raised position with three Seeps completed and a fourth located on the frame ready for soldering.  I made a hole in the frame for the Seep operating rod so that I could solder them easily.  You can see the one ready for soldering in the foreground.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-210217190452-48911560.jpeg)

They have all been tested electrically using the DCC controller and everything is fine.  I have just four more Seeps to install on the access from the UP main and then I can finish the points with the final one on the Norton branch hidden run around.  After that, WhenI have connected all the points droppers, I will be able to lay the tracks for all eight loops.  Itís starting to feel like I am nearly there.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on February 21, 2017, 10:24:08 pm
Nice updates on your layout Laurence, you must be serious about your weather to pay £200, I just look out the window.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 22, 2017, 05:58:02 pm
Today was another good news/bad news day.  However, the bad news was not very bad and the good news was pretty good.  So here goes.  First some good news about the weather station.  The low battery indication has gone away.  I think itís because the capacitor has charged up.  It has a 10 Farad capacitor to store charge, which keeps it running when itís dark.  A 10F capacity is absolutely enormous, about a million times greater than the largest capacitors that I used when I worked in electronics.  Itís physically very small, thanks to modern technology.  The bad news about the weather station is that I forgot to insert the rubber bung to seal the aperture where the cables enter the outstation box.  Itís not a disaster, but I will have to put the tower up again at some time in the future to keep it dry in foggy conditions and to prevent creepy crawlies from making a home there.  Hopefully you will hear no more of the weather station.

But now to the Train Shed.  That was almost entirely good news.  I did have a couple of minor issues.  I managed to accidentally pull of a section of track off the small board where I had cut it, but Iíve stuck it back down again and I can make minor adjustments when I finally screw down the large board.  I also had to move one of the barrier strip ďchocolate blocksĒ to make room for one of the Seep mounting blocks and cut a cross member for the same reason.  But I have wired up all Seep droppers and also installed and wired up the four remaining Seeps on the loops.  I had a problem with one, because I had wired it through from the adjoining board and inserted the connecting wire into a spare connection in error.  That was soon cured and all were tested for satisfactory electrical operation.  All the droppers have been wired.

Finally I have laid the track and installed the final point on the hidden Norton run around, complete with wiring and connecting the droppers.  I tested the overall DCC circuit for soundness by running the 64XX.  Itís all good.  Hereís a picture of the state of play at the end of the day.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-220217172515-489121455.jpeg)

There was one additional item of bad news.  Before I left the train shed, I decided to snip off all the Seep point operating rods.  Unfortunately I managed to stab the end of one of my fingers with one, which hurt a bit and resulted in some bleeding, but I guess Iíll live.  So now itís on with the UP loops and then the real running tests will begin.  :bounce:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 22, 2017, 06:05:58 pm
Overall, excellent progress then, Laurence. Very impressive.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on February 22, 2017, 09:01:28 pm
Looking very good.  :thumbsup:  A case of seepupuncture?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 23, 2017, 06:03:54 pm
Well, whatever happened to Doris?  Some of you will have experienced extreme weather, I am sure, but here itís all been a bit of a storm in a teacup, so to speak.  Yes, itís been windy, but the strongest gust today was this morning and it was less the 30mph whereas, at 3am on Wednesday morning, I recorded a half hour period with gusts of 35mph.  And yes, itís rained.  But it started just after 9pm yesterday and so far we have has less than half an inch of rain, so itís nothing to get excited about.  The only reason I mention this is that we had planned to have a day out today, but we put it off because of Storm Doris.  So, although I had other commitments this morning, I did get something done in the Train Shed today.

I have started on the UP loops.  So far I have completed two and a half loops out of the eight.  Hereís a picture of the progress to date.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-230217173952-48921283.jpeg)

All three loops have had their power droppers fitted, although I yet to connect them to the DCC bus.  I wonít do that until I have completed all eight loops.  So I could complete all the loops in two or three days.  Then itís testing with a light engine, followed by screwing the board down and snagging all the joins.  By this time next week I could be running trains round and round to calibrate them.  Iím really looking forward to that. :)

On the conceptual front (if thatís the right word) I have finished charting all the loops and point settings for every route and set it all out in a sequence of point settings.  I am currently transcribing them into a train graph format, in preparation to rewriting the operating timetable.  It all keeps me out of mischief!  ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 24, 2017, 07:01:46 pm
Itís all fairly mundane today.  Another three and a half loops completed making six in total.  We went out this morning to buy some sharp sand and fruit and vegetable seeds.  Then there was work to do in the garden.  I moved the contents of compost Bin 3 into the empty Bin 4 then, after a bit of rest, the contents of Bin 2 into Bin 3.  Otherwise, Iíve spent some time in the Train Shed.  Hereís todayís progress.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-240217184253-489471167.jpeg)

I hope I will be able to finish the remaining two loops tomorrow and then itís time for testing, screwing down the final board and snagging.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: weave on February 24, 2017, 08:13:13 pm
Hi Laurence,

All looking good.

The only downside is that you seem to be one of the most organised, neatest, gets things done people on here. Very depressing  :).

I'll just pour another wine and call it planning.

Seriously, great stuff but please don't do the scenics too quickly.

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on February 24, 2017, 08:19:26 pm
I must admit to getting exhausted reading what you do in a day, Laurence :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on February 24, 2017, 08:57:38 pm
I must admit to getting exhausted reading what you do in a day, Laurence :D

It's the compost that does it. :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on February 24, 2017, 09:20:37 pm
Very nice trackwork, Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on February 24, 2017, 09:37:50 pm
 :hellosign: All looking good Laurence, thanks for the update
      regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 25, 2017, 06:41:45 am
Thanks for all your kind remarks.  I must admit that joining the loops in the middle is a bit of a fiddle, but nothing like as bad as I had anticipated before I started.  The main problem is getting the lengths of the rails correct.  Often, I think I have it OK only to find that one of the rails has moved a bit and I have to do more nipping.  I have used the track curve gizmos a bit, but they are very fiddly and I think I can work better without them.  I have found the secret is to start bending at the far end from where I want to start laying.  With any luck, this leaves both rails with pristine ends at the start, so thereís no filing required. :thumbsup:

After laying forty six Peco Code 55 Streamline points, I have a little beef about them.  Why canít they ensure that all the flashing is removed from the bottom grooves in the ends of the rails?  I found that, after removing the spare sleepers, almost every point required me to use a sharp point to strip out the flashing from one of more rails to enable me to fit rail joiners.  :(
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 25, 2017, 07:19:52 pm
I think Harry Potter must have been in the train shed this afternoon.  All will become clear shortly.  The first good thing that happened today was that Hattons sent one of my back-ordered items, five steel open wagons with wooden side doors.  Hereís one of them.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-250217173718-489921592.jpeg)

Then I completed all the UP loops before lunch.  Thereís just the possibility that I might have to replace one of the power feed joiners because Iím not 100% sure of the alignment between the rails; Iíll sleep on it.  After lunch I connected all the power feed droppers and then came the acid test, switching on the power to see if everything would work OK.  When I switched it on, the controller indicated a short.  I checked all the connections from the DCC bus were to the correct rail.  It was OK before when I tested all the points so it was a bit of a mystery.  I checked that none of the points had an auxiliary switch stuck in the mid position, with no improvement.  So I started disconnecting the power droppers one by one, checking after each one whether or not the short had disappeared.  I had removed about seven of the nine when the short disappeared.  So I tried connecting up the last one to be removed to confirm the location of the short, but everything remained OK.  One by one, I reconnected them and when I had finished the short still had not appeared.  There has been no sign of it since.  I think the gremlins had been round, followed by Harry Potter.  I was then able to test all the loops with the 64XX.  Here it is testing the main loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-250217173658-489891963.jpeg)

There were three pairs of points where the lateral force from the curves had caused the points to creep sideways, leading to an angle between the rails to the exit from the points.  The judicious use of a few track pins solved the problem although, if I have to lift the board again, I must remember to look out for the sharp points on the underside of the board.  With that completed, I was able to test all the loops and points with the 64XX with a satisfactory outcome.  After that, I tested the hidden Norton branch run around.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-250217173709-48990350.jpeg)

Tomorrow, I need to screw down the board and realign all the tracks across the join between the small board and the large board.  At the moment, it looks like this.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-250217173657-48985520.jpeg)

It is a bit of a mess, but the use of track pins and possibly, the use of the Xuron nippers, will render the join perfectly useable for all the trains on all tracks.  Finally, hereís a picture taken from outside one of the windows, showing both sets of loops.  I hope this will give an overall perspective of the loops boards.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/3091-250217173714-489911670.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on February 25, 2017, 07:36:23 pm
I'd tell that Harry Potter to expelliamus his short or you'll set the Dementors on him, Laurence.
Dunno about you but I can't wait to see a vid of a train running all the way round the layout!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Skyline2uk on February 25, 2017, 07:50:55 pm
I'd tell that Harry Potter to expelliamus his short or you'll set the Dementors on him, Laurence.
Dunno about you but I can't wait to see a vid of a train running all the way round the layout!

Impressive franchise knowledge there Nobby  :thumbsup:

And excellent progress Laurence!

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on February 25, 2017, 10:03:53 pm
That is one great train room and layout. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 26, 2017, 06:40:02 am
Dunno about you but I can't wait to see a vid of a train running all the way round the layout!
I'm not sure about a video.  I will have to work out how to make one.  If I buy a specialist camera for the layout, perhaps that will have a video facility on it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: jonclox on February 26, 2017, 02:22:20 pm
 :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: A fantastic thread from page one onwards. Puts Ruleoneshire way behind it for an interesting read at any time.
Could I perhaps point you towards minitrix page where they list a variable length track piece which can be handy when bridging boards/gaps etc (14975).   Slide them across to lock track-ends across a join and slide back to free  ready to disconnect
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 26, 2017, 08:08:57 pm
Itís been a bit of an up and down day today but, thankfully, more up than down.  The first job was to screw down the large UP loops board and align the tracks either side of the join.  After the experience of the DOWN loops, I decided to bridge the gap between the boards with joiners.  That meant lifting the piece of track either side of the join and cutting back the sleepers, one sleeper on one piece of track and two on the other.  The reason for cutting two was to allow a joiner to slide all the way along, allowing both pieces of track to be put back into place before sliding the joiners across the board join.  In a few instances I had to use track pins to ensure good alignment with no sudden angles.  That took me all morning (after my non-Train Shed activities) so after lunch I was ready to start testing.  Unfortunately, Harry Potter had been back and when I switched on the power, the console indicated a short circuit. 

I disconnected all the joins, but to no effect.  I disconnected the DCC bus connection from the small board to the large board, but there was still not improvement.  I disconnected the DCC feed to the small board and the short disappeared.  So now, at least, I could confirm that it was in the UP loops area.  I brought my multimeter into play.  The strange thing is that I was still reading a short between the rails of both the small board and the large board, even though there should have been no connection.  So there was nothing for it but to unscrew the large board and raise it to look underneath.  At this point, the short on the small board disappeared, so two rails must have been touching across the join, undetected by me.  I then checked all the droppers, which were OK.  I actually started to disconnect them, but I thought I would try switching the Seeps from below the board.  Eventually, the short disappeared, so one of the auxiliary switches must have been stuck in the middle position.

I now reconnected everything and screwed down the board again.  Once more, I slid the joiners across the board join and everything was still good.  So, now, I was back to square two again.  Time to check the loops with the suburban train hauled by the 2-6-4T.  The reason for that choice is that it is the most likely to be derailed.  Remember that I had already checked the large board with the 64XX yesterday.  So the 2-6-4T was to have the honour of making the first complete circuit of the layout.  Well, Loop 1 proved to be a bit of a challenge, but nothing that a few track pins couldnít sort out.  After a couple of circuits, I switched it to Loop2.  Now that was a real challenge.  It turned out that the angle between the exit track from Point 7 and the point itself was too large.  So, with the use of track pins, I was able to correct this.  The next problem was that the radius of the exit track was now too small for the six flanged drivers.  In the end, I had to resort to a fiddle and curved the track far too close to Loop 3 as you can see.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-260217181720-490182456.jpeg)

This is not a problem because trains will not be running on both loops simultaneously and I can park the trains sufficient far down the loops to ensure there will always be free passage.  I also had a problem with the point itself and had to resort to using a craft knife to ensure that there was no obstruction to the flanges within the point itself.  So then it was on to Loop 3.  Again there were some teething troubles, this time associated with an incorrect fitting of the joiner across the board join.  Once the problems had been sorted Loop 3 behaved properly.  Here is a picture of the train rounding the entrance to Loop 3 but, unfortunately, I was a bit late on the shutter, resulting in missing the loco and loss of focus.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-260217181730-49035900.jpeg)

However, as it exited the loop for the last time, I managed to get a shot of the loco.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-260217181720-49018357.jpeg)

Tomorrow will be another day of testing and then I can start calibrating.  The 2-6-4T with the suburban train should have a top speed of 40mph but, at the moment it sounds more like 60mph plus.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on February 26, 2017, 08:50:58 pm
You're getting there. :thumbsup:
 My thoughts on a camera. A video camera is just that, designed to take videos. An ordinary camera of whatever type is a camera. It may have the capacity to take videos but in my humble opinion the quality nor ease of use is anywhere near that of a dedicated video camera. My two penn'eth.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on February 27, 2017, 12:05:11 am
Hi Laurence

Would the  track issue you show in your first photo be alleviated by using a curved Peco points and moving the points further away towards the board joint? As you say, probably not worth worrying about if the two close tracks are not going to be occupied at the same time.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 27, 2017, 06:37:44 am
Hi Laurence

Would the  track issue you show in your first photo be alleviated by using a curved Peco points and moving the points further away towards the board joint? As you say, probably not worth worrying about if the two close tracks are not going to be occupied at the same time.

Webbo
A curved point would probably help, but it means lifting the board again and re-engineering the point, which is not straight forward.  The problem is that I laid out the cork underlay on this board first, which was my first shot at it.  When I laid out the DOWN loops, I learned from this experience and made a better fist of it.  I think I can live with it for now, but a curved point may turn out to be a longer term solution.  I would like to get everything up and running first.  At some time in the future, I could move all the trains out of the UP loops to carry out the work.  There will not be any scenic work on the hidden loops, only a back scene hiding them, so it should be achievable.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on February 27, 2017, 07:00:28 am
Lawrence your layout is looking fantastic, the work you are putting into it puts most to shame, meaning me...lol. Has NPN has said I canít wait to see a video of your layout, putting one up is just has easy has putting your photos up, just try and do a little video of say your loco stock, it doesnít need to be long just a few seconds, say 20, believe me that is a long time in videos , then preview it before posting, that is if you want to post and see how you get on.   

keep up your Blog Lawrence itís is one of the better reads.    :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 27, 2017, 07:30:41 pm
Today was definitely a good news/bad news day.  The bad news was actually quite bad and led to a fairly drastic remedy.  I had trouble with Loop 2 yesterday and resorted to realigning the track very close to Loop 3.  Then I had trouble with Loop 3, although it was passable by the end of the day.  I was unable to get out into the Train Shed before lunch today and I had real trouble with Loop 4.  After several attempts to improve things with track pins, I decided to test the rest of the loops to see if there were any more problems.  I ran the 2-6-4T complete with six suburban coaches at full speed round Loops 5, 6, 7 and 8, all without a problem.  So that was good news.  I then retested Loops 1 and 2 with the same result, although I was not totally convinced about Loop 2 because, before I rerouted it, I tried replacing the insulated joiner from the frog with a metal joiner and cut the track a little further away from the point.  This had now become redundant and there was a little roughness in the ride over the cut.

I then concentrated on Loops 3 and 4.  Loop 3 continued to operate OK, but I was not convinced about its reliability over time.  But Loop 4 was a real problem.  No matter what I did, the rear bogie of the 2-6-4T kept derailing at the point.  After many attempts to realign the track I decided that, as the only loco that would use the loop was what we used to call the ninety-two-thousander, in other words the 2-10-0 9F, I would try that out on Loop 4.  Unfortunately, the tender derailed at exactly the same place.  Time for a cup of tea!

During my cuppa I resolved to lift all the loops from Loop 3 onwards and re-lay them in a more loco friendly manner.  When I got there I decided to lift Loop 2 as well and replace the section of track with the cut in it.  I had plenty of spare track, so it would be no problem.  I decided that I didnít need to re-lay the cork underlay, but simply overlay the new track over the existing underlay.  Part way through this I looked at Loop 1 and decided that it was the only one with an angle between the loop and the point exit.  So I lifted part of it and re-laid it.  I have now re-laid six of the eight loops, although I have not yet stuck down Loop 6.  You can see the results here.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-270217181130-490941420.jpeg)

The meandering of the loops over the original underlay is quite obvious.  From another angle, you can see how the exits from the points are much gentler then the originals, difined by the line of the underlay.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-270217181129-490852224.jpeg)

I was fortunate in that, having discarded the original track for Loop 2 with the cut rail, I have been able to reuse all of the other track, although I will be one short in the end and might need another for Loop 7.  So that was good news because I didnít have to bend, cut and file all the rails.  Tomorrow, I hope to be able to finish re-laying the loops and recommence testing.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on February 27, 2017, 08:24:36 pm
I have to say that looks loads better, Laurence, and I hope your payment is problem free running.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on February 28, 2017, 04:10:34 am
Great work Laurence and your problem solving is brilliant, a cuppa always seems to help find the answer. Hope you have a great day today.    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on February 28, 2017, 09:43:28 pm
Before I begin todayís report, I will start an account of how I am reprogramming the operational timetable to cope with the changed loop allocation of the trains, based on the constraints I found when running trains on adjacent loops on DOWN loop board.  I intend to show one stage at the beginning of the next few progress reports.  Today I have produced a picture of the operational sequence of trains.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-280217210356-491461905.png)

Across the top are the Loco IDs and below the operations are split into four cycles, each with four sub-cycles.  Each sub-cycle has two parts, A and B.  So, along the first line we see Loco 1 and Loco 12 operating in Part A and Loco 3 and Loco 2 operating in Part B.  Loco 19 actually runs in both parts, both UP and Down.  This is the starting point for all the planning and there will be another instalment next time.

Today had its ups and downs.  Unfortunately, Harry Potter came back right at the close, more of which later.  I started by finishing re-laying the remaining UP loops: so far so good.  Then, I thought it might be a good idea to check that the 9F would run on Loop 4, but unfortunately I could not get it out of its overnight stay in D0WN Loop 14.  The front pony truck kept leaving the track and derailing.  In the end, I decided to relay the exit track from Loop 14 in the same way that I had done for the UP loops.  I then used the 2-6-4T to thoroughly test all the UP loops.  This was successful, apart from Loop 8, where the radius at one point was too small for the 2-6-4T to take comfortably.  However, this did not matter because it would never run on that loop.  In the meantime, I decided to test Loops 1, 2, 11 and 12 with the Scott hauled XP passenger.  This was the start of a snagging sequence to ensure that all the trains would run an all the loops that were scheduled for them in the operational timetable.  Royal Ulster Rifleman performed like a dream, making several total circuits with 11 coaches in tow without so much as a hiccup.

After that, I tried to run the Grange with its intermediate passenger train, but that was very stop/start.  I think itís going to need a considerable amount of running in.  I havenít tried it yet on all its loops.  Then, with the radius of Loop 8 in mind I ran first the 57XX local goods and then the Class 5 with the milk train.  The 57XX had some trouble with one of the points, which needed the Seep operating lever trimming back even further.  It also derailed on the entrance to the same points several times, but after a bit of tinkering, it then ran several circuits without further ado.  Hereís a picture of the 57XX passing through Marton Hinmarche.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-280217183259-49095684.jpeg)

The Class 5, like the Scott, ran flawlessly.  Then it was time to bring out the 9F again.  It managed the exit from Loop 14 without a problem this time, but its front pony truck is a bit temperamental.  I may need to carry out more snagging to prevent this ever happening during normal operations.  At this stage, I thought I would test the Jubilee.  However, when I switched the points for its exit from Loop 13 a short circuit occurred (good old Harry Potter!).  I have narrowed this down to one point in one direction, but I havenít got any further yet.  Tomorrow, I will need to get underneath the board and disconnect the frog dropper to see if thatís the cause.  It is odd though, because it worked perfectly well before.  But Loop 14 for the 9F also connects to this point, so I may have done something when I re-laid the exit from that loop.  All will become clear in the fullness of time.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on February 28, 2017, 10:14:03 pm
Just a couple of thoughts, Laurence.

My Dapol A4 had trouble with derailment of the front pony on one set of points, but problem fixed when I removed the front coupler which was not needed anyway and a bit of an eyesore on this locomotive. Could this be a solution for your 9F? As for the short circuit suddenly appearing, such a situation could occur if a locomotive straddles IRJs which I assume you have plenty of. Loco pick-ups on either side of an IRJ allow for an electrical connection across the IRJ.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 01, 2017, 02:18:29 pm
We've been away for a week or so Laurence but glad to see that you are still plugging away.
Looks good - even if some of the electrical stuff goes miles over my head.
Keep the daily updates coming.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 01, 2017, 06:50:07 pm
Part 2 of the planning activity involves creating a feasibility diagram.  This shows the position of every train (using the loco ID) at the end of each sub-cycle. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-010317074001-491542243.png)

The sub-cycles are numbered across the top and the storage loops down the left hand side.  Tracks 1 to 8 are the UP loops and 11 to 18 the corresponding DOWN loops.  Sub-cycle 0 is the starting position before sub-cycle 1 begins.  The key element was to ensure that only goods trains (locos 3, 5, 7 and 10) can occupy Tracks 4, 6 and 8 (14, 16 and 18 for the DOWN loops).  This was to prevent overhanging carriages from touching on the inner loops.  Tracks 1 and 11 are the outside loops and therefore the longest, while Tracks 8 and 18 are the inside, shortest loops.  The express passengers (Locos 8 and 11) are confined to Tracks 1, 2 and 11 because they are the longest trains and the small suburban train (Loco 2) is allocated Tracks 7 and 17.  Tracks 8 and 18 are shared by the local goods (Loco 10) and the milk train (Loco 7).  Tracks 4 and 14 are reserved for the XP freight (Loco 5) while Tracks 6 and 16 are for the heavy goods (Loco 3).  So The intermediate passenger trains (Locos 1, 4, 6 and 9) plus the longer suburban train (Loco 12) have to share Tracks 2, 3 and 5 at the UP loops and 13 and 15 at the DOWN loops.  I have made a slight innovation to accommodate the revised format.  Loco 12 used to have Tracks 6 and 16 to itself, but I have now arranged for it to occupy the track vacated by the intermediate passenger that crosses with it in the station.  That has made this arrangement possible.

And so now to the dayís work.  I managed a few minutes in the Train Shed before we went out this morning and saw off Harry Potter.  Apparently, when I replaced the section of Track 14 to allow the 9F to exit, I failed to notice a slightly ragged end on the length of rail to which it joined.  This had bridged the insulated rail joiner, causing a short when Point 30 was switched from Track 14 to Track 13.  Itís now all fine and I was able to bring out the Jubilee.  The Jubilee was a real problem, not because it had troubles with the track, but because it kept stopping.  I ran it for three circuits with its nine coaches.  On the first circuit I must have pushed it 50 times.  On the second it was only slightly better.  By the third circuit, it would run most of the mainline straights and curves without stopping, but it was still prone to stop in the loops.  I think itís going to need a lot of running in.

In the afternoon I decided to test all the locos already on the layout on all the loop tracks that each would run on in real operations.  I first tested the Grange which, although I previously reported its performance as graunchy, compared with the Jubilee it was positively fluent.  It ran on all its loops without too much trouble, so I returned to the Jubilee.  Eventually, I managed to test it on all its loop tracks, by which time its performance had certainly improved.  It definitely needs lots of running in.  Incidentally, there were two or three coach bogie derailments behind the Jubilee which is strange, because that hasnít happened with any of the other trains. 

I didnít need to test the Royal Scott nor the 2-6-4T because they had already been run over all the tracks that would be required, as had the 57XX with the local goods and the Class 5 with the milk train.  I then went on to test the branch train over the whole branch line, including running the loco around the train at (hidden) Norton.  I finished up parking it part way along the branch line so that it didnít get in the way of any loop adjustments and left the branch platform (Platform 3) free for the Jubilee, which I subsequently parked there.  At this stage I brought the 9F out of Track 14, having first removed its front coupling, which would never be used.  The pony truck is still a bit unpredictable, but I decided to add all the goods vans to it to test it for real.  Some of the vans didnít run as freely as I would like and I may need to lubricate their bearings with good old Zenith Clock Oil.  The result was that the 9F seemed to be exhibiting a certain amount of wheel slip all the way round.  The entrance to Track 4 on the UP loops is still a challenge for it and I might need to relocate the points, although I would rather find a work around.  Also, the exit from Track 14 was still problematical, although after a few light engine runs backwards and forward, the ride did improve.  Here is a picture of the XP freight at speed on the UP line through Marton Hinmarche.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-010317174036-49175940.jpeg)

And here is another on the DOWN line.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-010317174031-491741522.jpeg)

Finally, here it is snaking its way into Track 14 to park for the night.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-010317174028-491652061.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 01, 2017, 08:58:17 pm
These charts are stretching my brain ???
Everything is looking good and it must be a great feeling to get things running. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 02, 2017, 08:50:06 pm
Based on the two diagrams posted yesterday and the day before, I am now in a position to define a set of routes for all the movements in the 16 sub-cycles.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-010317195004-49176947.png)

I will be able to use this diagram as a stepping stone for creating a set of routes for the operational timetable, which I will show tomorrow.

We were out for quite a bit of the day today but I did get down to the Train Shed for a time.  First thing this morning, before we went out, I tried relaying the track approaching the point which separated Track 3 from Track 4 to see if that would improve the running of the 9F into Track 4.  Unfortunately it did not.  So I spent most of today running the 9F to see what would work for it.  In the end, the only reliable plan was to use Tracks 2 and 12.  Now this is a bit inconvenient because I need those tracks for passenger trains.  This means that I will have to have two passenger trains on adjacent tracks further towards the middle of the loops, which allows the coaches to touch, fouling the running within the loops.  I will have to think carefully about how I solve that.  I may have to lift the large UP loops board and relocate one or more points, which is a major undertaking.  In the extreme, I may have to relocate all the points and, indeed, also re-plan the small UP loops board as well.  That would be a great shame and involve a considerable delay to the project.  However, in the end, it might be best to mirror the layout of the DOWN loops.  Another alternative might be to ditch the 9F, but I really would like to keep it for the XP freight if possible.

I did finish up running the Jubilee and the Grange in a round and round fashion and both showed a remarkable improvement in running characteristics, so I hope they will both end up as satisfactory runners.  The Jubilee seems a little underpowered, but I think it will be able to maintain the required speed with its scheduled load.  I think the Grange is OK and the rebuilt Scott has bags of power.  Hereís a picture of the Jubilee at speed on the UP line, overtaking the branch train, seen on the far left.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-020317195619-49215652.jpeg)

And here it is on the return journey, passing through Marton Hinmarche, with the local good just visible in the goods loop behind.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-020317195620-492161471.jpeg)

Finally, here are four trains hauled by the Scott, the 9F, the Grange and the Jubilee, all waiting in the UP loops ready for action.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-020317195609-49214788.jpeg)

I will play about with the other locos, particularly the 38XX, to see if they will all run on the required loop tracks.  The DOWN loops are no problem, but some of the entrances to the UP loops may be a little too tight, which is why I may have to consider relocating points.  I will carry out more testing and investigation work tomorrow.  Also, I still have some snagging to do.  In particular, I have noticed that one or two track joints have occasionally caused a coach bogie or goods van to derail.  However, this should be reasonably simple to resolve.

I have been asked if I can post some videos and I would really like to, but I donít possess a camcorder.  I have tried using my mobile, but itís not much good.  I have seen a few camcorders that might be OK.  Does anyone have any recommendations?  I will also have to find out how to set up a You Tube account and work out how to post the pictures.  :helpneededsign:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 02, 2017, 09:38:31 pm
I think it helps to very lightly lubricate the motion on steam locos as anything that removes friction helps the running capabilities. I use Gaugemaster oil applied via their needle applicator but tiny drops via something like the end of a cocktail stick would do the job. This especially applies to tender driven locos where, sometimes, the motion can lock up.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bob Lawrence on March 02, 2017, 10:21:57 pm
Hi, have bookmarked your project and just read your post regarding uploading to YouTube, I have uploaded videos using an app called capture which seems straight forward, hope this may help.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on March 02, 2017, 10:22:35 pm
Hi Laurence

Setting up a Youtube account is straightforward once you have a gmail (Google) account. If you Google 'setup Youtube account' or something similar, you'll get instructions on how to do it. I don't remember experiencing any problems doing this for myself.

As for cameras, most cameras nowadays can take pretty decent videos though I'm sure a camcorder would be better for this purpose. My efforts in this regard are far from terrific, but I know I've not reached the limits of my camera's capability, I've just purchased a tripod, and a light on a high stand to help things. Of course, the major limitation is still the guy behind the lens (me).

I suggest you try taking a little video on your phone and posting it just for fun and experience. It will bring your layout to life for us out here in NGF land.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 03, 2017, 02:52:50 am
Hi Laurence

Setting up a Youtube account is straightforward once you have a gmail (Google) account. If you Google 'setup Youtube account' or something similar, you'll get instructions on how to do it. I don't remember experiencing any problems doing this for myself.

As for cameras, most cameras nowadays can take pretty decent videos though I'm sure a camcorder would be better for this purpose. My efforts in this regard are far from terrific, but I know I've not reached the limits of my camera's capability, I've just purchased a tripod, and a light on a high stand to help things. Of course, the major limitation is still the guy behind the lens (me).

I suggest you try taking a little video on your phone and posting it just for fun and experience. It will bring your layout to life for us out here in NGF land.

Webbo

Agree  :thumbs: with above. It really is so easy Laurence, a man with your skills will have a video on here in no time and then there will be no stopping you. Just go onto youtube Laurence and click share and you will see a little pop up box, copy and paste to the forum after you have clicked the youtube icon 1st in the message box, it may take a few time to get used to it but you will enjoy all the great thanks and comments from us all.      :thumbsup: :thumbsup:   
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 03, 2017, 08:14:38 pm
Based on the list of sub-cycle routes that I showed yesterday, I next created a definitive list of routes.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-020317205120-49217541.png)

Each route has a description and a note of the source and destination loops.  You will notice that I have created an additional 9 routes.  The first is to allow access to their branch from the UP main, in case it becomes necessary to divert an UP stopping train to Platform 3 (the branch platform).  Then there are four more to reset the points back to the main line after accessing the goods loop, milk loop and branch.  Finally, I have added four more to allow the branch loco to run around its train at the far ends of the branch.  Loops Main 9 and Branch 10 are purely dummies to blank of the switching.  The route list will be used to create a list of all the point switching associated with each route.

Today, I spent quite a time in the Train Shed and quite a lot happened, including a couple of minor disasters.  Overnight, I had decided that I would probably have to move the point that split off Tracks 3 and 4.  However, I thought I would take the 38XX out of its box and attach its 27 wagons.  The first wagon slipped out of my fingers and fell onto the bottom of my tool trolley.  When I examined it, one of the couplings had been knocked off.  I found the pocket and the spring, but not the coupling.  Unfortunately, when I was salvaging the spring, it quite inexplicably disappeared (Harry Potter again?) from my fingers.  Now I expect that I will be able to obtain a replacement Farish coupling at some stage, but as the Toad GWR brake van is still on pre-order, I attached the wagon to the end of the train for now.  So then I ran the train, only to find that the pony truck at the front of the loco kept derailing.  When I inspected it closely, I realised that the wheels were not actually touching the rails.  I removed the screw to see if I could loosen it a little, but without effect.  After coffee, I took a washer down from my workshop but it proved to be far too large.  When refitting the screw, I dropped it and it was nowhere to be found.  However, I was now able to try and lower the position slightly to make contact with the rails.  This was not entirely satisfactory, but the 38XX seems to proceed around the track quite happily with the pony truck wheels occasionally waving about in the breeze.  The 38XX seemed to cope with the Tracks 6/16 route of my original design so now I needed to sort the 9F.

Before proceeding to the 9F I managed to work out how to use my phone to produce a video of the 38XX.  Later, I even managed to upload it to YouTube and you can see it here



I apologise for the poor light, lack of focus and shaky camera, but at least you can see something running.  The 38XX normally runs much slower than that but I speeded it up for the testing process to save time.

For the 9F, I re-laid the exit from Track 14 and it seemed to cope with the new track profile.  So that left Track 4.  I decided to lift the large UP loops board and move the point.  This wasnít quite without incident, but all was well in the end.  First, I removed the tracks either side of the point and then removed the point.  I then re-positioned it and marked out the position of the Seep.  Having moved the Seep and checked its operation, it remained only to re-lay the tracks.  I took this opportunity to re-position Tracks 5, 6, 7 and 8 to give a slightly increased radius access to them.

After that, I decided to let things settle down over night and spent the rest of the time trying to work out how to upload the video onto YouTube.  I was surprised that it took over 10 minutes to upload it.  But at least now itís done.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 03, 2017, 08:22:53 pm
Glad you sorted how to upload videos Laurence.
That 38xx looks impressive at the head of that rake of wagons and certainly looks very smooth - a tribute to your track laying.
Sorry to hear about your minor disasters today but keep persevering, it will be worth it in the end.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 03, 2017, 09:13:45 pm
Certainly an express 38xx :) but nice to see trains moving. those lists you're producing are doing a great job in confusing me. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on March 03, 2017, 09:54:34 pm
Thank you Laurence

Much appreciate the video. I now have a much better perspective on what your layout looks like and what you are trying to achieve. Besides, I like watching trains in motion.

If you wish to have a thumbnail picture for your video instead of just the link, go to modify post, highlight the link to the video, and then click on the YouTube button (second in from the left hand end above the smileys).

Webbo

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 03, 2017, 10:03:19 pm
Thank you Laurence

Much appreciate the video. I now have a much better perspective on what your layout looks like and what you are trying to achieve. Besides, I like watching trains in motion.


Wot Webbo said.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 04, 2017, 04:02:13 am
Really Brilliant video Laurence, if thatís your video off your phone, God help us when you get a camera/ camcorder and you do even better oneís.    :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 04, 2017, 08:21:12 pm
In order to utilise the routes list that I showed yesterday, I needed to create a list of loops, showing the required point settings for each loop.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-040317082400-492182419.png)

Loops 9 and 10 do not exist, but they offer a convenient means to provide null data when there is no loop at the beginning or end of a route.  In addition, I have added seven extra, conceptual loops that are not part of the UP or DOWN loops.  These allow points to be set for the milk loop, goods loop and branch run arounds.  Also there is one for mainline trains to switch from the UP main to Platform 3 (the branch platform) in exceptional circumstances.  More loops are required for the resets back to main. This list will then be used to create a list of required point settings for each route.

Today I removed all the pins from the UP loops and then tested the loops with the 38XX and the 9F.  They worked perfectly, but the exits from DOWN loops 14 and 16 were still a bit iffy, so I re-laid them yet again, giving them an even smoother approach to the exit points.  While I was waiting for the Copydex to set, I found the last three locos in the box (apart from the prairie, which is still on pre-order from Hattons).  I began with the Hall, the other XP passenger and added its 12 coaches.  It ran like a dream for a couple of circuits and then suddenly jumped off the track.  I put it back on, but it would not move, neither forwards nor backwards.  I could hear the motor running but, when I looked, the coupling from the tender to the cab wasnít moving.  I disconnected the coupling and it worked correctly.  I re-connected it and, again, there was no movement.  Something had jammed in the loco drive.  I turned it upside down and disconnected the tender.  I removed the bogie and the cover for the gears, to allow lubrication.  There was still no joy.  Unfortunately, while all this was going on, the pickup wires from the loco to the tender broke.  However, the tender pickups still worked OK.

In the end, I found that one of the pins securing the coupling rod to the front driver was protruding and fouled the connecting rod.  I freed the connecting rod and all was well again.  I reconnected the tender and tried running without the connecting wires.  It ran OK, but was less smooth, presumably because of the reduced pickup capability.  I found it difficult to reconnect the wires and one of the tiny screws managed to disappear.  In the end, I soldered the ends, with a slight smell of scorching plastic, but it worked OK.  A circuit or two later the same thing happened.  I used a pair of tweezers to slightly bend the connecting rods, but it happened yet again.  I went round this loop a couple of times before I managed to ensure the connecting rods were not fouled.  At that stage, I noticed that the culprit pin had disappeared, but the coupling rod was still OK, so all appeared to work normally.  Then it jumped off a couple of times more before I realised that there was a tiny misalignment of a track joint which didnít affect any of the other locos.  I corrected the alignment and after that, all was well.

I then ran the Scott to make another phone video.  You can see it here, travelling at a scale 80 mph.



When it runs under normal operations, it will run at a scale speed of 60mph, but it does look good running at high speed.  In order to release the Scott, I had to move the Grange and the Jubilee.  The jubilee now runs really well and the Grange, although a little graunchy to start with, also ran pretty well.  After making the video, I played with the CV settings a bit to see what effect it had.  I will have quite a bit of fun calibrating because it looks as though all the locos respond differently to CV programming.  Finally, I ran the Hall again just to make sure it was still OK, which it was.  I never did get round to testing the re-laid exits to Loops 14 and 16, but thatís something to look forward to tomorrow.  My last act was to take a picture of all the mailine locos, other that the milk train and local goods, sitting in the DOWN loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-040317181726-492721919.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 04, 2017, 08:40:26 pm
Impressive!  Thank you. :thumbsup: The clearances in the loops are certainly tight.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 05, 2017, 05:15:23 am
Impressive!  Thank you. :thumbsup: The clearances in the loops are certainly tight.

They certainly are , but do they look good, yes they do. I really love this layout of yours Laurence, please keep the photoís and now your new found skill of videos. Love to see your Steamers running.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Greybeema on March 05, 2017, 06:54:28 am
Impressive stuff and a great video.

I keep a spreadsheet of locos and their CVs.  All of my locos are set for a VMax of a scale 60 mph.  Being a modern scene modeller I have a couple of GF Class 66s and a couple of Dapol ones.  I use the the stored CV settings as a reference point to set up the next but each loco does turn out slightly different..
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 05, 2017, 07:36:54 am
Impressive stuff and a great video.

I keep a spreadsheet of locos and their CVs.  All of my locos are set for a VMax of a scale 60 mph.  Being a modern scene modeller I have a couple of GF Class 66s and a couple of Dapol ones.  I use the the stored CV settings as a reference point to set up the next but each loco does turn out slightly different..
Thanks for the idea.  I think a spreadsheet is an excellent idea.  For the 38XX and the local goods, CV5 (Top Voltage) will be set to a scale 20mph, but I speeded them up for testing, otherwise it takes a month of Sundays to get them right round the loop.  The interesting settings are CV6 (Mid Voltage) and the acceleration and deceleration.  But I will enjoy getting them right and recording them in a spreadsheet.  Once again, thanks for the idea.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 05, 2017, 07:27:13 pm
I have taken the loop list from yesterday showing all the points required to access and exit each loop.  I have used this in conjunction with the list of routes to indicate which points need to be set for each route. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-050317063538-492741488.png)

Although I will not be using the route facility on my DCC controller because of a lack of certainty about operating all the points on a route, the routes list is useful because I can now go on to produce a Cayley Table mapping out all the points to be set for each route which will (eventually) simplify all the points settings for the routes.

I didnít manage to get into the Train Shed today until just before lunch.  I ran the 9F and 38XX round their respective loops and all was well apart from the perennial problem of the 38XX pony truck waving about.  It is as though it needs some extra weight added to keep the pony wheels on the rails.  Does anyone have any experience or advice about this?  I did try inserting a wire loop spacer between the pony truck and the main frames, but it caused the pony truck to lean away from the rails even further, so I abandoned that idea.

After that I ran the Jubilee and the Grange around all the loops that they would occupy in the normal course of events.  Before lunch I had (or at least thought I had) set up the points for the Grange to run.  Unfortunately, after lunch, when I ran the Grange, it ran into the rear of the heavy goods and caused a mayhem derailment because of the close proximity of all the storage loops.  It took quite a while to sort out that mess!  Both the Jubilee and the Grange found one or two (different) dead spots, which were cleared by the use of an eraser.  However, I began to experience one or two issues with the grange-hauled train on the main line.  The main issue was the last two coaches becoming uncoupled from the train.  Part of the reason was track joints which had caused no problems with any other stock.  However, just as I thought I had sorted it out, there was a catastrophic derailment of the last three coaches at the first points entering the DOWN loops.  When I inspected the wreckage I noticed that one of the coach couplings was sticking out at an angle.  I tried to relocate it but the tiny spring came out.  I spent a long time trying to thread it back on a piece of bare copper wire, but in the end I gave up and put the bits in a safe place.  Does anyone have any tips about salvaging Grafar couplings?

Then I noticed one of the of the other coach couplings hanging at an angle.  On inspection I found there was no spring in that one either.  So I removed it and I have attached both coaches to the rear of trains, which should have been no problem.  I then found that one of these, at the end of the Grange-hauled train, kept derailing at one particular track joint.  Nothing else was affected by the joint.  I detached the coach from the train and tried the coach freewheeling over the joint.  With the coupling-less bogie at the back it derailed, but only in the ďright lineĒ direction.  If I reversed the coach it was OK but, of course, I could not run that bogie at the front because it had no coupling.  In the end I used a needle file and an additional board screw to solve the problem so the coach is now reattached to the end of the train.  I did manage to make a couple of short videos of the Jubilee on the main line.





After that I took the B17 from its box and assembled its train of eight coaches.  It ran fine on Loops 2 and 13, but on Loop 15 exit, first the loco derailed at the frog of the first point then the tender derailed on the curve, which was rather unexpected.  I filed the frog profile a little and it looks as though the loco is OK on that, but I will change the exit tack alignment slightly to see if that cures the tender problem.  The only difference between the B17 and the other two intermediate passengers that I have run so far is that the B17 seems to have a slightly longer coupled wheel wheelbase and the tender may also have the same characteristics.  We will find out tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 05, 2017, 07:43:56 pm
The Jubilee certainly looks good and runs extremely nicely Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 05, 2017, 07:48:42 pm
Most satisfactory!  :thumbsup:

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 05, 2017, 09:22:05 pm
I have a concern the track has gone down so quickly you may have the odd poor rail joint where a fishplate or two are not seated correctly, and this could be what is causing derailments :hmmm:
May I suggest next time stock derails that you run a finger over the offending joint and see if there is a 'lump'. This is not meant as a criticism as I guess we've all been flummoxed by a derailment at some point in the track laying/testing.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 06, 2017, 06:29:58 am
Both videos are great Laurence, i agree with NPN with the fishplates, i have laid down my track and found the offending little blighters have not seated properly, keep up your great work.     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 06, 2017, 06:40:45 am
I have a concern the track has gone down so quickly you may have the odd poor rail joint where a fishplate or two are not seated correctly, and this could be what is causing derailments :hmmm:
May I suggest next time stock derails that you run a finger over the offending joint and see if there is a 'lump'. This is not meant as a criticism as I guess we've all been flummoxed by a derailment at some point in the track laying/testing.
Thanks NPN.  That's what I've been doing.  It's odd that it only happens on one particular piece of rolling stock.  The latest one was on a board joint where there's no connector and the alignment seemed perfect.  But there must have been the tiniest bit of roughness and a very slight change in board height.  Anyway, it's now OK for that bogie, so all's well that ends well.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on March 06, 2017, 06:48:59 am
Great videos. :thumbsup:

Love the long rakes of blood & custards!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on March 06, 2017, 07:01:38 am
Great videos. :thumbsup:

Love the long rakes of blood & custards!  :thumbsup:

Me too.

With regards to the track issues, my mainline seemed to be working perfectly until a couple of weeks ago when two of my freight cars started to derail at a particular location. The track is flat, but it was a little kinked there when I looked closely. I put it down to the hot weather we've had this summer which has caused the track rock and roll a bit from its original installation. Fixed now. Hopefully such things won't happen once I get it all ballasted.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on March 06, 2017, 07:08:45 am
Ballasting should do the trick. The garage where my layout is housed experiences some pretty major temperature differentials, but I can't say I've had any significant expansion/contraction issues over the years.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 06, 2017, 07:09:52 am
There are a couple of track joins near sets of points on my unballasted layout that move.

Like Webbo, I'm hoping that they will become stable once I do get around to ballasting.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on March 06, 2017, 07:17:39 am
Just let that PVA and washing up liquid do it's trick, Dave!  :thumbsup:

Divent get it in the points, but.  :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 06, 2017, 07:46:34 pm
Today I have included the Cayley Table that I referred to yesterday.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-050317211834-492992225.png)

The routes are listed down the left hand column and the points across the top.  For each route the point settings are indicated to allow trains to leave the source track and arrive at the destination track.  The required points were indicated in the Routes list yesterday.  If a point is indicated as ď1Ē it is set to turnout and ď2Ē indicates straight on.  This corresponds to the indications on the DCC controller but, of course the points all have to be wired up in the correct way.  I have used brown to connect output ď1Ē from the accessory decoder to the Seep turnout coil and blue from output ď2Ē to the straight on coil, with green for the common return.  Although there are 46 points on the layout, settings for Points 45 and 46 are missing from this diagram because they are for yard shunting and I have not included them in any route (so far!).  However, they are both wired up and active, so I could create shunting routes at any time, but it is probably simpler to just switch them as required.

The bogie problem, that I had yesterday, resurrected itself today.  The bogie now comes off in several places.  On inspection, the centre boss that holds the bogie onto the coach was standing very proud of the bogie.  When I investigated, it came off and will not fit back again.  I suspect this is one of the second hand coaches that I bought on eBay.  So the coach will have to go into the workshops to have its body lifted to see what is going on inside. 

I re-aligned Track 15 and ran the B17 successfully round it.  I parked the Grange at Platform 3 to make room on the UP loops to test the B17 and tested it (the B17) on Track 5 as well.  But it then derailed at a set of points.  It derailed again at another set of points and when I tried to put it back it would not pass the points.  Then I saw a foreign body within the points.  It turned out to be the screw securing the bogie to the frames.  Once refitted, it ran OK again, although the first coach derailed a couple of times at points, but after that it performed perfectly.  There had been no problem before, so perhaps the tender was not located properly. 

Later, I took the Manor from its box and assembled its seven coaches behind it.  I moved the Grange from Platform 3 further up the branch line.  This allowed me to park the Jubilee in at Platform 3 to make room for testing the Manor on the UP loops.  The manor tested OK, apart from its first coach derailing several times at various points.  I inspected the bogies, but there was no obvious fault.  In the end I reversed the coach and that cured the problem.  This was another coach I bought on eBay.  I then decided to make a short video


The Manor passes on the DOWN main through the station, picking up a coach which had been carelessly left on the line.  At the same time, the Royal Scott passes on the UP main.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 06, 2017, 08:16:24 pm
Derailments. Items fouling the points. Carriages left on the track.
At this rate the O.R.R. is going to have a field day with you, Laurence! :worried: ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 06, 2017, 08:23:30 pm
Derailments. Items fouling the points. Carriages left on the track.
At this rate the O.R.R. is going to have a field day with you, Laurence! :worried: ;)
Just think of the spirit of Brunel.  When Daniel Gooch set off from Paddington on a loco after the last train from Reading had arrived he was astounded to see another light engine coming in the opposite direction.  Fortunately, it diverted into the engine shed.  When He stopped to find out what was going on, Brunel stepped from the loco.  Gooch asked what Brunel would have done if they had met head on.  Brunel replied that he would have put on all speed in the hope of knocking the oncoming loco off the track!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 07, 2017, 03:34:50 am
Derailments. Items fouling the points. Carriages left on the track.
At this rate the O.R.R. is going to have a field day with you, Laurence! :worried: ;)
Just think of the spirit of Brunel.  When Daniel Gooch set off from Paddington on a loco after the last train from Reading had arrived he was astounded to see another light engine coming in the opposite direction.  Fortunately, it diverted into the engine shed.  When He stopped to find out what was going on, Brunel stepped from the loco.  Gooch asked what Brunel would have done if they had met head on.  Brunel replied that he would have put on all speed in the hope of knocking the oncoming loco off the track!

 :laughabovepost: Very good Laurence, your locos look great running on the track, :thankyousign:  :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 07, 2017, 09:41:29 pm
From yesterdayís Cayley table, I was able to make a sequence table, showing which points must be switched in what order to carry out the planned operations.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-060317195246-493041400.png)

The sequence runs from top to bottom and the table shows the first four sub-cycles.  Only the point settings highlighted in green are needed.  The required settings which are not highlighted are already in place from the previous part of sequence.  So, for Sub-cycle 1a, only Points 1, 13, 21, 25 and 26 need to be switched to set both routes.  After the trains have run, Points 8 and 16 must to be switched to allow the branch loco to run around the branch train.  Once it has completed the run around, they need to be reset to allow the loco to connect up with the other end of the train.

I now have all the locos and trains assembled on the track, apart from the shorter of the two suburban trains, which is waiting for the prairie on pre-order from Hattons.  So now it is a question of testing, snagging and calibrating.  Of course, there is also the question of trying to repair the broken coach. 

One of the major outstanding jobs was finally screwing down all the boards.  Previously, I had only inserted sufficient screws to ensure a smooth transition from one board to the next.  So now I put a screw into every accessible hole.  I didnít count them, but I used nearly a whole box full.

I have had BIG problems today, not with the Train Shed but with computers.  This has greatly restricted my time in the Train Shed and writing up today.  First my wifeís computer was completely useless.  It turned out to be a McAfee Lifesafe problem.  In the end I had to start up in safe mode and completely uninstall all McAfee programs and then reinstall them.  Then, this evening, when I came to write up, I had a big problem with Firefox.  In the end, I had to reboot only to find that Firefox had lost all my bookmarks and substituted a 2012 version.  I was unable to find the current one anywhere, so I had to find each website by hand and then bookmark it.  It was very tedious and time consuming.  But on to the Train ShedÖ

I produced a spreadsheet for the CV values, as suggested by Greybeema.  Iíll post a picture of it tomorrow.  So I spent most of the time, apart from screwing down the boards, programming the Scott.  First I set the Start Value (CV2) to give a nice slow speed (value=10).  Then I set the Top Value (CV5) to give a top speed of 60mph (value=145).  Then I set mid value (CV6) to give a speed of 30mph (100).  I set the deceleration (CV4) to allow me to turn the controller to a speed setting of zero when the back of the train disappears behind the backscene hiding the storage loops so that the train would come to rest safely within its loop (value=45).  Finally, I set the acceleration (CV3) to give a smooth take off that would allow it to appear on the main line at full speed (value=45).

While I was busy doing this, the restaurant car derailed a few time passing over points.  I tried the trick that I have developed of reversing the coach and that cured the problem.  I think it must have been another eBay coach.  I didnít make any videos today because I needed to keep hold of the controller while operating the train.  However, here are three pictures of trains on the layout today.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-070317203131-49332350.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-070317203121-493311697.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-070317203131-49333907.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 08, 2017, 01:38:57 am
From yesterdayís Cayley table, I was able to make a sequence table, showing which points must be switched in what order to carry out the planned operations.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-060317195246-493041400.png[/url])

The sequence runs from top to bottom and the table shows the first four sub-cycles.  Only the point settings highlighted in green are needed.  The required settings which are not highlighted are already in place from the previous part of sequence.  So, for Sub-cycle 1a, only Points 1, 13, 21, 25 and 26 need to be switched to set both routes.  After the trains have run, Points 8 and 16 must to be switched to allow the branch loco to run around the branch train.  Once it has completed the run around, they need to be reset to allow the loco to connect up with the other end of the train.

I now have all the locos and trains assembled on the track, apart from the shorter of the two suburban trains, which is waiting for the prairie on pre-order from Hattons.  So now it is a question of testing, snagging and calibrating.  Of course, there is also the question of trying to repair the broken coach. 

One of the major outstanding jobs was finally screwing down all the boards.  Previously, I had only inserted sufficient screws to ensure a smooth transition from one board to the next.  So now I put a screw into every accessible hole.  I didnít count them, but I used nearly a whole box full.

I have had BIG problems today, not with the Train Shed but with computers.  This has greatly restricted my time in the Train Shed and writing up today.  First my wifeís computer was completely useless.  It turned out to be a McAfee Lifesafe problem.  In the end I had to start up in safe mode and completely uninstall all McAfee programs and then reinstall them.  Then, this evening, when I came to write up, I had a big problem with Firefox.  In the end, I had to reboot only to find that Firefox had lost all my bookmarks and substituted a 2012 version.  I was unable to find the current one anywhere, so I had to find each website by hand and then bookmark it.  It was very tedious and time consuming.  But on to the Train ShedÖ

I produced a spreadsheet for the CV values, as suggested by Greybeema.  Iíll post a picture of it tomorrow.  So I spent most of the time, apart from screwing down the boards, programming the Scott.  First I set the Start Value (CV2) to give a nice slow speed (value=10).  Then I set the Top Value (CV5) to give a top speed of 60mph (value=145).  Then I set mid value (CV6) to give a speed of 30mph (100).  I set the deceleration (CV4) to allow me to turn the controller to a speed setting of zero when the back of the train disappears behind the backscene hiding the storage loops so that the train would come to rest safely within its loop (value=45).  Finally, I set the acceleration (CV3) to give a smooth take off that would allow it to appear on the main line at full speed (value=45).

While I was busy doing this, the restaurant car derailed a few time passing over points.  I tried the trick that I have developed of reversing the coach and that cured the problem.  I think it must have been another eBay coach.  I didnít make any videos today because I needed to keep hold of the controller while operating the train.  However, here are three pictures of trains on the layout today.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-070317203131-49332350.jpeg[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-070317203121-493311697.jpeg[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-070317203131-49333907.jpeg[/url])


Very impressive Laurence, love the 1st photo with your work tray, very tidy... but all the photos are great, very impressive trains, the goods are long and would look great snaking their way through hillsides.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 08, 2017, 08:03:38 pm
From the sequence sheet of yesterday, I am able to construct the train graph.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-060317195421-49319509.png)

Actually itís not a train graph in the normal meaning of the term but, because the section of line is so short and there is only one train in each direction at any one time, the form I have used allows me to establish the timings for setting points and controlling the locos.  Where the locos are shown with a green line they are running at full speed.  The speed of each is indicated.  Where there is a yellow line, the locos are costing down to 10mph ready to stop and red indicates bringing them to a complete halt.  The grey lines show them as stationary, waiting to set off again.  Iíve shown two complete sub-cycles.  Iíve also indicated an auto uncoupler, but I donít possess one at the moment.  I may install one later when everything is working properly.

For the calibration process that I began yesterday, I am using a spreadsheet, as suggested by Greybeema.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-080317064701-493342329.png)

I start off with the scale distance and the proposed top speeds of each loco.  The time shown against each loco is the time it should take for a complete circuit at the top speed.  I start off by setting the Start Voltage (SV = CV2) to give an observable, but slow movement forward.  I then adjust the Top Voltage (TV = CV5) to give the required circuit time.  Once thatís done I adjust the Mid Voltage (Mid = CV6) to half speed or double the circuit time.  Then the Deceleration (Dec = CV4) is adjusted so that when the back of the train disappears into the loops, the train will come to a halt safely within its storage loop.  Finally, the acceleration (ACC = CV3) is adjusted to give a smooth start up that ensures the train has reached full speed before it emerges onto the main line.  The two columns on the right hand side contain operational information.  They indicate how many coaches, counting from the rear of the train, should be passing into the loops when the speed is switched to zero, allowing for the programmed deceleration.  This is because there is a slight difference between the UP and DOWN loops in terms of the distance to stop.

Before we went out this morning, I began to calibrate the Hall.  However, while I was doing that, I became aware of two snags that need fixing.  First, Track 1 is a little too close to Track 2, causing the coaches to touch.  Not a problem when the train on Track 1 is travelling at speed, but could cause problems at low speed.  I lifted it carefully and realigned it slightly, which is now fine.  The other snag is that since fully screwing down the boards there is a slight change in level on the entrances to the DOWN loops.  This has not been a problem before, but the Hall didnít like it and derailed on a couple of occasions.  The solution is two new sections of track spanning the join. 

Track 1 has now been stuck down with Copydex and the two new track sections are now in place.  I have spanned right across the board join and fitted them both with my ďpatentĒ sliding joiner arrangement so that, should the need to lift either board ever arise in the future, it will be a simple matter of sliding the joiners off the points and lifting the tracks.  I have fixed both sections with Copydex, which can easily be removed, if required.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-080317195527-493791227.jpeg)

I was now able to complete speed testing the Hall without further ado.  However, when I came to carry out the half speed test, the bogie had a tendency to lift off the rails and derail on the curve exiting Track 11.  I tried realigning the track but with no real improvement.  When I observed carefully, I could see that the front left bogie wheel was pushing against the left hand cylinder causing it to rise up.  I tried more than one realignment, but I am not convinced that it will always work.  Itís strange, because it is a very gentle curve that shouldnít cause a problem.  I tried it again at full speed, and there was no problem.  Fortunately, in normal operations, the Hall will use Track 12 rather than Track 11.  I managed to complete the half speed calibration and here is a short video of the Hall running at 30mph



Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 08, 2017, 08:10:11 pm
Those graphs and charts are beyond me but do keep the updates coming - especially the physical work on the layout.
It'scoming along well.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 09, 2017, 03:57:00 am
Those graphs and charts are beyond me but do keep the updates coming - especially the physical work on the layout.
It'scoming along well.

 :thumbs: agree with above, although i am getting to gripís with the charts i think, may take some time     :laugh3:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithbythe sea on March 09, 2017, 05:30:31 pm
Good to see the trains running Laurence. You have made significant progress in the past month. Looking forward to see them running through some scenery.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 09, 2017, 08:02:19 pm
Todayís picture about operational planning is the last of the sequence (ďPhewĒ I think I heard you say!).  This is the operational timetable that is based on the train graph from yesterday.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-060317195422-49320583.png)

Essentially I have turned the train graph information into a sequential list of what to do and when.  Iím not sure that I will be able to do it ďblindĒ so to speak, or at least, not initially.  I will always need to look out to make sure that everything is going well and no disasters are looming.  Also, I will need a large digital stop-clock on the wall from which to take my timings.  The sequence shown is for the first part of Sub-cycle 1.  I am still working on transposing the train graph information to the operational timetable.  So far I have completed the first five sub-cycles (i.e. one full cycle and the first sub-cycle of Cycle 2).  In a full cycle, every train runs at least once.  After four full cycles, all the trains will be back in their starting positions, ready for the next session.

We had a day out by the sea today.  We went to Scarborough (I know itís not Fair) and enjoyed the sunshine and some pasta for lunch.  But I did manage to get a little time in the Train Shed after we arrived home.  I spent the time programming (or as it turned out, trying to program) the Manor.  First I set the Start Voltage to a very slow creep.  Then I set the Top Voltage to give a reasonable impression of 60mph.  It was not totally satisfactory because the Manor must have been to ballroom dancing classes.  It wasnít quite Slow, Slow, Quick, Quick, Slow, but you probably get an impression of its irregular speed at full throttle.  I then went on to set the Mid Voltage so that I when set the throttle to 10 (out of a maximum of 28), the train rain at a slow coast.  It was more than 10mph, but not certainly less than 20mph.  I then set the deceleration time to allow it to stop safely within the loops, as I had done with the XP passengers.  I then tried to set the acceleration time to give a reasonable acceleration away from the station.  However, the train never really reached top speed before it was time to decelerate for the loops.  The result was that it would not stop in the right place in the loops.  While I was experimenting with the acceleration and deceleration, the loco suddenly came to a stop at one of the exit points.  I could not really see any reason.  I then noticed that it was rocking and rolling rather excessively on the main line.  There were more stops and derailment at different points on the layout.  There had been no hint of this beforehand.

I resorted to lubricating the motion and driver bearings, but Iím not convinced that this made any significant difference.  I resorted to removing the acceleration setting and trying to run it at full speed around the circuit.  By now, I had run out of time and so had to leave everything in a rather unsatisfactory state.  I had planned to video the acceleration from the station and deceleration to stop in the loops but, unfortunately, there is no visual record of todayís work in the Train Shed.  Tomorrow, I have to concentrate on garden jobs in the morning, but should be able to get something done in the afternoon.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 10, 2017, 07:32:39 am
There has been quite a bit of chat about retirement on the Sonmel Thread.  I thought I would throw in my four pennyworth here.  I retried seven years ago.  I didnít think I would ever want to retire because I enjoyed my work so much.  However, when it came to the end, internal politics made it feel good to get out.  I planned to do private research in the mornings and gardening in the afternoons.  I had previously developed a raised bed system for crop rotation.  The research got a bit iffy and I finished up buying a weather station, about which you have already heard.  That kept me busy for a while and I also undertook voluntary work for the Solihull branch of the MS Society, driving the minibus and looking after their IT.  After three years we took the decision to move north and we have been in this house for three years now.  The move was the spark that inspired the Train Shed Project.  Eighteen months ago, I became treasurer of the local U3A, but I intend to give it up in October because itís a lot of work and I donít really identify with what seems to be a bit of a Derby and Joan.  However, to cut a long story short, I now donít know how we ever found time to go to work.  I usually manage to get into the Train Shed for a bit on most days, but we certainly have plenty to keep us out of mischief.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on March 10, 2017, 07:41:38 am
In total agreement, buddy. I too retired 7 years ago, and think the same way.

Mind you, the intervening years have been filled up with travelling and meeting the likes of dubious characters such as NewportNobby, Sprintex and other members of this community.....  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithbythe sea on March 10, 2017, 12:07:09 pm
In total agreement, buddy. I too retired 7 years ago, and think the same way.

Mind you, the intervening years have been filled up with travelling and meeting the likes of dubious characters such as NewportNobby, Sprintex and other members of this community.....  :beers:

Are you implying that NPN actually exists.  :hmmm:

I thought that he just existed in the ether of the forum like some mythical guru. Sorry NPN  :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 10, 2017, 12:15:23 pm
@keithbythe sea (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5078)

Oh I exist alright. Be very grateful you're at the other end of the country from da Leyland Massive >:D
Guru of any sort I definitely ain't, though :no:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 10, 2017, 07:42:57 pm
Yesterday, I took delivery of a mini screwdriver kit.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-100317183740-4939874.jpeg)

I have used it in anger already on the Manor, as I will explain shortly.  I have now also ordered a set of magnifying spectacles and a fine pair of tweezers, which should make working on locos and rolling stock more user-friendly. 

Today I returned to programming the Manor.  I started again from scratch.  I noticed that the rocking and rolling seemed to be centred on the right rear driver. 



I used my new screwdriver kit to remove the gear train cover and lubricated the gears.  There was no improvement.  In the end I discovered that there were traction tyres on the rear drivers and the one on the right rear had a bump in it.  It looks as though it was a little over size.  In the end, I removed the hex bolt holding the coupling rod onto the driver and removed the traction tyre.  Unfortunately, the screwdriver kit didnít have a socket small enough.  The smallest socket in the set is 2.5mm, but it looks as though the bolts are 1.5mm.  I resorted to using small pliers and tweezers.  It was not the ideal solution, but it worked.  There was no more rocking and rolling after that.  However, there was a case of ďbump-stopĒ at the exit point from Track 3.  It wasnít enough to prevent the calibration of the Manor.  But when that was finished, I removed the existing track section and substituted a slightly longer one that ensured a dead straight entrance to the point.  That did the trick.  Hereís a video of the Manor performing.


First, apologies for my failure to keep everything in the picture all the time, but I was holding my phone to make the video and reaching for the walk-around to control the train.  The sequence begins just after I set the Manor to full speed.  As you can see, it accelerates up to full speed.  As it reaches the points at the DOWN end of the station I set the speed to zero, followed by 10 (out of 28).  It gradually reduces speed and then I set it to zero, whereupon it slows to a stop.  I then set it again to full speed and it accelerates away.  As the back of the train passes out of sight (you have to imagine the back scene) I reduced the speed to zero and it comes to a halt safely within the storage loops.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 10, 2017, 08:37:43 pm
Did you replace the traction tyre? It doesn't appear to affect the traction but the wheel wont be making contact with the track.
Like  Port Perran the tables leave me maized but I'm looking forward to seeing everything in action. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 10, 2017, 08:45:09 pm
Did you replace the traction tyre? It doesn't appear to affect the traction but the wheel wont be making contact with the track.
Like  Port Peran the tables leave me maized but I'm looking forward to seeing everything in action. :thumbsup:
No, I didn't replace the traction tyre.  I thought there might be another in the box, but there wasn't.  The tyres appear to be inset into the rim (the metal tyre of a real loco) and the wheel still appears to be making contact with the rail.  Where can I buy some spare tyres?  I assume they're different for each loco because of the different wheel diameters.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 10, 2017, 08:51:01 pm
BR Lines or Peters Spares usually stock traction tyres.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 10, 2017, 08:56:46 pm
Where can I buy some spare tyres?  I assume they're different for each loco because of the different wheel diameters.

DCC Supplies are the official Dapol repairers.
They don't list any but a call to them might elicit information.........
https://www.dccsupplies.com/search/results/?search=traction+tyres (https://www.dccsupplies.com/search/results/?search=traction+tyres)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 11, 2017, 02:47:21 am
Yesterday, I took delivery of a mini screwdriver kit.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-100317183740-4939874.jpeg)

Unfortunately, the screwdriver kit didnít have a socket small enough.  The smallest socket in the set is 2.5mm, but it looks as though the bolts are 1.5mm. 

That is just about right Laurence, you buy what you think is the bís and eís of a kit and you find that the one thing it hasnít got is the one thing you need  ;)

Anyway great work on your layout and the calibration looks ok too.     :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 11, 2017, 06:23:32 am
You certainly seem to have had more than your share of problems, Laurence, but I admire the way how you steadfastly overcome them. The "Manor" now performs very well and the speeds look very realistic. Some of the loop tracks look perilously close and serve to emphasise that loops need plenty of space and planning with rolling stock and a pencil before fixing down. However, with your very sophisticated computer control (far too complex for me) there should not be any side-to-side collisions on adjacent loop lines, I hope.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 11, 2017, 06:44:27 am
You certainly seem to have had more than your share of problems, Laurence, but I admire the way how you steadfastly overcome them. The "Manor" now performs very well and the speeds look very realistic. Some of the loop tracks look perilously close and serve to emphasise that loops need plenty of space and planning with rolling stock and a pencil before fixing down. However, with your very sophisticated computer control (far too complex for me) there should not be any side-to-side collisions on adjacent loop lines, I hope.
The inside loops are too tight for adjacent passenger trains but, fortunately, by making the fourth, sixth and eighth track (counting from the outside) goods tracks, that problem is avoided.  The shorter goods wagons don't have any significant overhang. 

I don't have any sophistic control really.  It's just a basic DCC controller, but it allows me to program the CV values to simplify running control.  The acceleration and deceleration are set rather unrealistically high, but on a small layout it's the only way to get the trains up to full speed.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 11, 2017, 07:17:46 pm
This morning, I did quite a few garden jobs.  While I was working, my latest delivery arrived.  When I had finished the garden work I was able to get into the Train Shed for a short time before lunch.  During that time I was able to finalise the Manor calibration, checking Track 5, that had been occupied previously by the B17.  So far, so good.  After lunch, I opened my parcel, which contained the head band magnifier with light and a fine pair of tweezers.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-110317180357-494752146.jpeg)

Iím not sure how much use the magnifier will be, because it is difficult to get close enough to the track to make detailed inspections of the joins.  It did seem to work quite well when examining the broken coach, but I was able to see that none of my new tools would work on the body fixings.  I think it might need a pair of pliers.

But back to the calibration process.  The B17 proved to be a difficult customer.  I had previously tested it on all tracks without any problems, but now it displayed two faults.  Firstly it kept dropping the train and secondly, the tender kept derailing, particularly on Tracks 3 and 13.  The derailing seemed to be coincident with dropping the train, although there were other instances where the train was dropped.  I re-worked Track 3 yet again and that seemed to stop the derailing of the light engine.  I observed in detail the coupling between the tender and the first coach.  The coach coupling seemed to lift over the tender coupling.  I tried putting the coach the other was round with no improvement.  I tried two other coaches, but the uncoupling still persisted.  In the end I decided that the tender coupling was sagging a little too much and so I tried a work around by placing a small piece of Blue Tack under the coupling.  That worked wonders.  Curiously, the tender derailments also stopped, so I was able to go on and complete the calibration before it was time for a cup of tea.

Later, I moved the Grange and the Jubilee out of the branch where they had been parked and replaced them with the Manor and the B17.  It was then time to calibrate the Grange.  Once again, Track 13 seemed to be a problem, with the drivers derailing.  It had never been a problem before, so I can only guess that it objected to the remedial work I had carried out for the Manor and the B17.  I have now worked out how to modify Track 13 exit so that the Grange will negotiate it satisfactorily.  Of course, I will need to go back and retest the other locos on it.  I didnít get chance to make a video today, but hereís a picture of the Grange and the Jubilee in the UP loops ready for calibration.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-110317180333-494571549.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 11, 2017, 07:39:35 pm
There's a rather unnerving glint in your eye(s) in that pic, Laurence. Are you sure you didn't perform a triple bypass on me last year? :worried:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daffy on March 11, 2017, 07:51:21 pm
That's a good impression of Larry Olivier you're doing there Laurence. 

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 11, 2017, 07:52:21 pm
There's a rather unnerving glint in your eye(s) in that pic, Laurence. Are you sure you didn't perform a triple bypass on me last year? :worried:
I think the only two bypasses I performed last year were the Lincoln Bypass and the Beverley Bypass.  :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithbythe sea on March 11, 2017, 07:57:16 pm
Impressive bit of kit Laurence. Reminds me of the restoration man in Toy story 2  ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 11, 2017, 08:03:49 pm
Aaagh. I might well wake up in a cold sweat tonight having nightmares about a man approaching me with a fine pair of tweezers. They look like a lethal weapon in that picture.
I've stowed mine away just in case...... :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on March 11, 2017, 09:50:20 pm
Hi There Laurence, nice reading about your investigations into your rolling stock problems. I like the magnifying head set, must admit I have thought about buying one. I just have a magnifying lamp on my desk, it is on its second tube already. Pity you have placed your tracks a little close, it is annoying when It limits stock movements. I think we all make some mistakes, I used a certain loco to check the track and then found other locos would not run. I decided to leave my layout has I have been busy with other things so not much work on my layout at the moment. I need to knuckle down and try to get things running again, track cleaning is my hate, I find it a pain. I really need to start running my Tomix in liquid cleaning mode. Keep working at it you seem to be getting there and It is giving me a bit of impetus to do some more work on mine.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on March 11, 2017, 11:29:00 pm
 :hellosign: Many thanks for your updates  :greatpicturessign: & videos, the charts are over my head but love your methodical progress
       regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 12, 2017, 06:29:50 pm
Well, itís been a strange day today.  The first thing that happened was that when I went out to open the greenhouse first thing this morning, the digital max/min thermometer was blank.  ďOh wellĒ I thought, it needs a new battery.  We went for our usual Sunday morning walk then, after coffee, I changed the battery.  There was still no display.  So I tried another, just in case, but there was no change.  So I decided that I would need to order a new thermometer.  It was raining, so I grabbed an hour or so in the train shed.  I fixed Track 13 and set about programming the Grange.  It worked well and I was able to get it all done except the acceleration.

After lunch, it stopped raining so I was able to lay a few edging pieces in a part of the garden that we are working on.  After tea, I noticed that the original battery from the thermometer was labelled ďSuper heavy dutyĒ.  So I tried a lithium battery in it.  Surprise, surprise, it worked.  I then tried the original replacement a Duracell Industrial.  That also worked, so it is a mystery as to why replacing the battery didnít work in the first place.  Itís probably that Harry Potter chap again.

After that, I went back to the train shed and finished the Grange, including testing it on all its operational tracks in both loops.  Now it was time for the Jubilee.  It wasnít happy on Track 5 and I made a slight realignment on two joints, using track pins.  That sorted out the problem.  I started off programming the Jubilee in the normal fashion, but I was unable to program the Top Voltage.  No matter what value I programmed in, it still ran at full speed.  I tried the acceleration and deceleration and they worked, so I decided that there must be a fault with the chip.  I changed it for an identical one (both Bachmann) but the second displayed exactly the same symptoms.  The Mid Voltage didnít seem to have any effect either.  Itís strange that I bought six of these chips for my DCC ready Farish locos, and all the other locos are OK.  In the end, I decided that I would have to use the controller setting of 15 for the top speed instead of 28, which produced the right speed.  I still have to program deceleration and acceleration.

I had hoped to post a video and pictures, but the traumas of the day have left me without pictures, Iím sorry to have to say.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Big bad John on March 12, 2017, 07:58:46 pm
Did you replace the traction tyre? It doesn't appear to affect the traction but the wheel wont be making contact with the track.
Like  Port Peran the tables leave me maized but I'm looking forward to seeing everything in action. :thumbsup:
No, I didn't replace the traction tyre.  I thought there might be another in the box, but there wasn't.  The tyres appear to be inset into the rim (the metal tyre of a real loco) and the wheel still appears to be making contact with the rail.  Where can I buy some spare tyres?  I assume they're different for each loco because of the different wheel diameters.

If you cannot get the traction tyres for the manor the ones for the Farish N class are the same size I used those on mine and it works perfectly. There should he a tool in with some Dapol locos to undo the crank pin's. Those traction tyres can be a pita to refit.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 13, 2017, 06:58:17 am
If you cannot get the traction tyres for the manor the ones for the Farish N class are the same size I used those on mine and it works perfectly. There should he a tool in with some Dapol locos to undo the crank pin's. Those traction tyres can be a pita to refit.
I've ordered the tyres from Peter's spares.  Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 13, 2017, 05:23:02 pm
I was able to snatch half an hour in the Train Shed before table tennis this morning.  The Jubilee was an absolute pain.  It must have stopped twenty times per circuit, without explanation.  It was OK yesterday.  Trying to program the acceleration and deceleration proved almost impossible.  Then the tender derailed at a track join, something that has never happened before.  I discovered the problem Ė a very slight misalignment in height at an insulated joiner.  Then, rounding the UP loops, the bogie derailed.  This has never happened before.  So, off we went to table tennis.

Later, there was more edge laying in the garden so it was lunchtime before I got back into the Train Shed.  Now the Jubilee ran much better, but was still a pain when testing deceleration in the loops.  Also, I had to set the acceleration time to zero otherwise it was almost impossible to get it round the loops.  Later, I set the acceleration as a standing start from the station.  I moved it into Platform 3 so that I could test the 2-6-4T, which completed several circuits without so much as a cough.  But, when I came to program the Top Voltage, it again had no effect.  I then realised that, apart from the Scott, which came DCC fitted, all the other locos that I have calibrated were Dapol, which all came DCC fitted.  I then tried the Class 5 and the result was the same, so it appears that the type of Bachmann decoder that I bought with my original order is incapable of setting the Top Voltage.  So I think I will have to buy some others.  Altogether, I will need four, three for the above and one for the Ivatt mogul thatís on pre-order.  Iíll probably need another for the Dapol 9F as well because I bought that with no chip and fitted one of the culprits so, when I come to calibrate it, Iíll probably find the same problem.  The 64XX has a different decoder, because it requires a right-angled chip to fit under the boiler, so I hope that will be OK.

No pictures again today.  I had to finish early because itís the AGM of the Hull branch of the IAM this evening.  Perhaps next time Iíll try and take some pictures before I start anything else.

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for DCC decoders?  It looks like a choice between an ESU Lokpilot 54685 at £33.50 and a Digitrax DZ126IN at £23.39.  Iím sure the Lokpilot will be the best, but is it worth the extra cost?  I might just buy one of each to compare them. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 13, 2017, 05:28:44 pm
Interesting that you appear to be a fellow Advanced Motorist Laurence.
Always good to hear that people take motoring seriously.
And...top marks for perseverance with your layout. It seems to be a case of one step forward and two back but.......you will get there.


Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Big bad John on March 13, 2017, 05:41:20 pm
CT decoders are good. I've used half a dozen of them the CT DCX 76 run's very well straight out of the box and with a bit of tuning you can get exceptional slow running. For around £30 each their not bad valve compared to some other decoders.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: jonclox on March 13, 2017, 07:07:27 pm
I  allways favour the  Digitrax decoders myself
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 14, 2017, 09:44:00 am
Lenz Silver Minis are what I, usually, have fitted. Sometimes Digitrax, depending on what Douglas of DASCON advises.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 14, 2017, 07:45:26 pm
Worse was yet to come.  The 64XX would not accept CV5 or CV6 programming.  I managed to find the Bachmann technical data and their chips do not have CV5 or CV6, so thatís the explanation.  Apparently, you are expected to use one of their predefined speed curves, all of which have the maximum speed at 100% of the applied voltage.  I could of course go in and program CVs 67 to 94, but given the time needed to get the speed right using CVs 5 and 6, I think that is a non-starter.  So I definitely need to buy some more chips.  The problem is that the 64XX requires a chip with right-angled pins and the only one I can find is a Bachmann, which is obviously a no-no.  I can find one with wired connections to an NMRA plug.  Iíll probably ask Douglas at Wickness Models.  I will order the chips from him anyway.  He may be able to advise as to the best decoders to buy for Farish locos.

Anyway, programming the CVs for the 38XX and 57XX was achieved, at least for maximum speed.  Here are a couple of videos of the 38XX (albeit with the pony wheels waving in the breeze).





And finally a video of the 57XX hauling the local goods



All of these videos were made with the locos going flat out.  The advantage of programming CV5 is that you don't have to worry about the speed setting during normal operations.  You just crank up the speed to maximum and the programming looks after the rest.

I have to yet to complete the programming of these two locos, but at least their top speeds are now realistic.  The videos were taken before I had finalised the top speed and are all a little too fast (but only by about 5mph).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Big bad John on March 14, 2017, 08:24:56 pm
If its any help my jinty had a right angled decoder in and I replaced it with a CT DCX 77z it is very tiny and measures only 5 x 7.6 x 1.8 mm available from Coastal DCC under Z gauge decoders.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 15, 2017, 07:14:35 pm
YIPEE!  :bounce:  Iíve managed to get to grips with the Bachmann decoders.  So I wonít need to buy any replacements.  It came about like this.  I looked at the mini data sheet that came with one of them and that referred me to the Bachmann website.  From there, I downloaded the user guide and discovered a simple way to achieve the programming results I wanted.  At first I thought I might have to go into the speed curve and define all the CVs 67 to 94.  This would have been very tedious if I had wanted to change the calibration a number of times.  But then I discovered CV 66.  The full procedure goes like this.

First, set Bit 4 of CV 29, which means adding 16 to the default value of 6, so CV 29 is set to a value of 22.  Bit 4 turns on the internal speed curves of the decoder.  Then CV 25 is used to select the speed curve.  The decoders have 14 built in speed curves plus a provision to program all the speed steps explicitly.  By entering the value of 2 for CV 25, the decoder selects a linear speed curve.  This is just the same as using the controller without a speed curve.  But that is where CV 66 comes in.  The value of CV 66 sets a scaling factor for the speed steps.  So, by setting a suitable value between 1 and 127, the speed can be scaled down, in exactly the same way as using CV 5 for Top Voltage.  This only controls the forward speed, so the reverse speed needs to be set in the same way using CV 95. 

Before I tried this out on the 2-6-4T, I needed to park the local goods back in the goods loop.  Here is a video of it passing through the sunshine at its final full speed, a scale speed of about 20 mph.



After that, I programmed the 2-6-4T and hereís a video of it passing through Marton Hinmarche at its full speed, a scale speed of 40 mph.



I then went on to program the Jubilee successfully.  I had hoped to post a video of it stopping at the station and restarting again, but something must have gone wrong with the video and it only recorded for one second, so itís not worth showing.  But weíre definitely getting there!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 15, 2017, 08:25:26 pm
Being a DC dinosaur most of that is way above my head, but I'm glad to hear you've had a good day.
Long may it continue.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 15, 2017, 08:33:11 pm
Glad you're getting it sorted. Being electronically challenged a lot is above my head but would love to be able to come to grips with Ohm's Law! ???
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: themadhippy on March 15, 2017, 09:18:29 pm
Quote
but would love to be able to come to grips with Ohm's Law

(http://www.sengpielaudio.com/ohms-law-illustrated.gif)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 15, 2017, 09:48:03 pm
Nice one. Thanks :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 16, 2017, 06:30:16 am
Well done Laurence, they look great, wish you could have got more then a second of the Jubilee though. 

Brilliant job.       :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 16, 2017, 06:52:21 am
@themadhippy (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4863)
Wonderful diagram!  Can you do one of Kirchov's second law?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on March 16, 2017, 07:16:00 am
Brilliant cartoon!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Wished I had access to that in my Physics teaching days!

Don't know about Kirchov's law, but the mind boggles at a rendition of Lenz's law!!  :worried:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 16, 2017, 07:48:24 am
I guess you guys are talking about Hank Kirchov and his Greek mate, Tele Lenz.

You can imagine how good my edukation were!  :dunce:

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on March 16, 2017, 07:57:10 am
 :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: themadhippy on March 16, 2017, 01:51:10 pm
Quote
Can you do one of Kirchov's second law
No no no,just no
Quote
Lenz's law
Ah the joys  of electromagnetism calculations and trying to contort your hand to determine the direction of the  genaRIGHTor. Now if we want to have fun shall we delve into  power factor and why ohms law dont strictly apply  to  AC circuits. >:D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 16, 2017, 02:49:47 pm
Quote
Can you do one of Kirchov's second law
No no no,just no
Quote
Lenz's law
Ah the joys  of electromagnetism calculations and trying to contort your hand to determine the direction of the  genaRIGHTor. Now if we want to have fun shall we delve into  power factor and why ohms law dont strictly apply  to  AC circuits. >:D
Enough said!   :whiteflag:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 16, 2017, 06:53:02 pm
 :helpneededsign: The Farish Jubilee has stopped working.  There doesn't appear to be a connection between the wheels and the copper pickup strips in the tender.  I have replaced the chip with a DCC blanking plate and tried it on DC.  I have removed the tender from its chassis and checked the pickups.  If I give the right hand one a prod, the loco seems to get some power for a second.  Does anyone have any experience of this problem?  I'll post some more about today, including videos, later, but it would be good to get some assistance, if possible.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 16, 2017, 08:56:49 pm
Just looked up Kirchov's laws. I suppose his first is a bit like eating, what goes in has to come out and his second is going round in circles and getting nothing done. That's my scientific appraisal  :-[
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: themadhippy on March 16, 2017, 09:42:26 pm
why couldnt my collage lectures tell it like that,instead of getting us bogged down in those weird  sums  with lots of letters instead of numbers  that must equal zero.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 16, 2017, 10:44:44 pm
There were two disasters today.  The first was the Jubilee.  I just donít know what the problem is.  However, before I explain the problems, I first decided to make a video of the Jubilee making its way on the DOWN line, including a stop at Marton Hinmarche.  It is first seen as it appears on the mainline from the UP loops.



It decelerates and stops, then accelerates away again, finally coming to rest in the DOWN loops.

After I made the video, I decided to clean the track with one of the two new Peco track cleaning rubbers that arrived in the post today.  I first moved the Grange to the DOWN loops to leave the UP loops free of any trains.  I then cleaned the loops and began testing them.  First I ran the 46122, Royal Ulster Rifleman, UP and then at a walking pace right through the whole of the UP loops using Track 1 to ensure that the track was free running with no glitches.  I then ran it right round and back to the UP loops to park it in Track 1.  The idea was to do this with all the trains in the DOWN loops.  Next came the Hall, which once again worked perfectly on Track 2.  Then came the Jubilee.  Not long after it entered the UP loops at walking pace it stopped, even though it was still on track that had already been tested with the other two locos.  I gave it a little push backwards and it ran back for a little.  I tried re-burnishing the track and ran it again, with the same results.  After a few times, it refused to respond at all.  I tried it on the program track, but could not be sure if it was responding.  I took out the chip and replaced it with a decoder blanking plug and tried it on DC: nothing.  I removed the tender from its chassis and had a look.  There was no continuity between the wheels and the copper pickup strips.  I prodded each strip in turn and the right hand one seemed to give some response.  After a while, it would run a bit on DC, so I refitted the decoder, but there was still no joy.  When I tried to read the decoder address, it gave the wrong address, so I reprogrammed the address.  But I am still no further forward.  It would be good if someone could give me some advice as to what I might do.

After that I parked the train (with no loco) in Track 3, and tested the 9F on Track 4.  That would have gone without a hitch, but for the fact that its left smoke deflector caught on three of the Jubilees carriages.  I will have to alter the spacing of the tracks slightly.  After parking the 9F in Track 4, I tested the Grange on Track 5.  This was not perfect, but the Grange has always been a bit Graunchy.  So the second, less extreme, disaster is that, when I have finished testing the cleaned tracks, I will need to readjust the loops slightly, which will probably mean cutting some slightly longer lengths of track for the outside three of four tracks.  Fortunately, I have a complete, unopened box of track, so there will be plenty to spare.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on March 17, 2017, 03:52:22 am
 :hmmm: That has happened to me with my  Dapol Colorado Laurence, i sent it off to the shop i bought it from and they gave it a once over, sent it back and it ran ok. I think they cleaned all the grease from the gears, that what they said in the email anyway, may be worth a look at them, itís the white stuff, they said if a little bit of it is on the loco it can cause a short., donít know if thatís true or not, but it runs ok now.   Happy Modelling  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 17, 2017, 07:07:42 pm
The Jubilee is dead.  Long live the Jubilee!  I decided to try and track down the fault by dismantling the loco.  That was a mistake.  Even with my illuminated monocle, miniature drivers (PH000) and tiny tweezers, it took me over two hours to dismantle and reassemble the loco.  The reassembling was the most difficult.  In the end the cure was worse than the disease.  I contacted Hattons to let them know what I had done and they very generously offered to replace it.  So I will post it off tomorrow.

Iím afraid there are no pictures today because I spent quite a time in the garden (it was very cold).  But I finished my edging and put up most of the pea supports, ready for planting.  When I got back to the Train Shed, I finished testing the UP loops and moved everything out of the DOWN loops.  Then I was able to clean all the DOWN loops and the main line.  I carried out a reverse test but, instead of the Jubilee, I used the B17.  In order to do that, I had to move the Jubileeís train into the goods shed loop.  Everything tested fine, apart from the Graunchy Grange.  The 2-6-4T is not perfect, but that is not a track problem either.   Next up will be the re-jigging of the UP loops to give a little more lateral room for the 9Fís smoke deflectors.  There are also one or two snags that need to be corrected, mostly caused by a small angle between tracks at rail joins.  Thatís not too much of a problem to correct.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 18, 2017, 06:33:03 am
Sorry about that Jubilee but nice of Hattons to swap it out.

My Grange went back for a refund as it just wouldn't run as it should.

Here's hoping you can resolve the other running problems a lot easier.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 18, 2017, 06:45:08 am
My Grange is still Graunchy, but I hope that a prolonged running period will sort it out.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 18, 2017, 01:32:27 pm
The gardening season is fast approaching, so as the Spring wears on, I will have less time to spend in the Train Shed.  However, with the lighter evenings, there may be more time to compensate for the agricultural demands.

Today began with a trip to the Post Office to send of the Jubilee.  That was after I had been to the Train Shed and ripped up some of the UP loops.  Hereís a picture of them before I started.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-180317132306-49683711.jpeg)

The two problem areas for the 9F smoke deflectors are the curve at the upper left and the large curve nearest the camera.  The 9F occupies Track 4 so I need to move Track 3 further away from it.  That means I will also have to move Tracks 1 and 2.  Hereís a picture of the exit curve after the track had been removed, showing where it needs to go when I relay it.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-180317132301-496821002.jpeg)

And hereís one of the main curve.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-180317132256-496652042.jpeg)

I hope to be able to complete the work later today.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 18, 2017, 06:20:50 pm
Well, after all the gardening this morning, we went out after lunch and then I managed to get back in the Train Shed and install the realigned loops.  I needed two new lengths of track and I had to move all three sets of power droppers.  But, after a lot of cutting, filing, sticking and pinning I finally managed to get it all done, including reconnecting the droppers and testing them with my multi-meter.  Hereís a picture of the completed result.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-180317172446-496841023.jpeg)

Tomorrow, I will remove the pins and retest the loops to ensure that there is plenty of room for all the trains to fit on the UP loops.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: jonclox on March 18, 2017, 06:46:36 pm
  Even with my illuminated monocle, miniature drivers (PH000) and tiny tweezers, it took me over two hours to dismantle and reassemble the loco.
I manage 90% of the time with a watchmakers eyeglass clipped to the arm of my reading glasses
BUT it must be remembered that I used this method for the whole of my 40+ years as an horologist
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 18, 2017, 06:56:50 pm
I'm very glad that you're relaying those loop lines, Laurence, to avoid side-to-side collisions. A good 'gauging' vehicle is a Dapol autocoach because of the steps on one side with an outside frame Class 08 diesel shunter then a pencil to mark the required 'envelope'.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 18, 2017, 07:07:45 pm
I'm very glad that you're relaying those loop lines, Laurence, to avoid side-to-side collisions. A good 'gauging' vehicle is a Dapol autocoach because of the steps on one side with an outside frame Class 08 diesel shunter then a pencil to mark the required 'envelope'.
Thanks for the advice Chris.  Everything would have been OK but for the fact that the 9F is very long and the smoke deflectors project forward a long way.  I'll report back tomorrow on the test results.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 19, 2017, 07:08:01 pm
There were lots of test runs today.  First I removed all the pins from the realignment and started to move the trains one by one from the DOWN loops to the UP loops.  I thought I would make a video of the B17 and the 9F transferring to the UP loops.



It starts off accelerating out of Track 13 reaching full speed by the time it emerges onto the main line.  Iím afraid I didnít get good light for the start, but I hope you can see it OK.  It slows down and stops in the station before pulling away again, to finally slow down and stop safely in the UP loops.  Unfortunately, my attempt at filming the 9F was interrupted by finger trouble, so I actually recorded about one second.  Iíll try again tomorrow.  Here are all the trains safely parked in the UP loops with the DOWN loops in the distance.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-190317175843-497041808.jpeg)

Then I began to test each train in turn on all the DOWN loops that it would use.  The 2-6-4T turned out to be a pain.  Each time it stopped, I burnished the top surface of the tack, but it didnít make any difference.  This is despite the fact that other locos ran over the same section without issue.  I decided that the loco must be picking up from the flanges and turned my track cleaning rubber on end and cleaned the inside of the rails.  I canít say that this was 100% successful, but it did make a huge difference.  So far, I have identified one joint where the 38XX jumps a bit, but without causing a derailment or stop.  I intend to adjust this joint tomorrow and retest.  Next up will be the 9F, which might cause one or two adjustments.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 20, 2017, 06:40:51 am
I have decided that, at some time in the future (perhaps a long way in the future) I will relay the hidden storage loops based on the experience of my first attempt.  If and when I get round to it, I will allow an extra 5mm between the tracks (30mm instead of the normal double track separation of 25mm) to give plenty of space for carriage overhangs, protruding smoke deflectors, etc.  I will also replace many of the medium radius points with curved points to allow the loops to expand without affecting the main line access and egress.  However, for now I will just get on with the plan.  Once the current round of track tests is complete, I will need to complete the calibration of locomotives and then itís on to the scenery.  The first task will be the platforms (quite important for a railway), then the Metcalf card kits followed by general scenery.  Will I be finished this time next year?  I very much doubt it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 20, 2017, 06:51:50 am
You have made huge progress in a very short time, Laurence.

Looking back over my efforts, two years + in and I've still not done some of the more basic tasks.

I have, however had a great time getting this far and I'm sure you'll get a real buzz once you get to start the scenics.

I've zero knowledge of the computer/DCC side of things but I'm really looking forward to see what comes next.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 20, 2017, 07:40:27 am
I agree with Dave, Laurence. I think that one you get the scenery started you will be really tmotivated to finish.
And yes, you'll be finished by this time next year.
By Christmas I'd wager!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: wookie on March 20, 2017, 11:50:28 am
Looking back over my efforts, two years + in and I've still not done some of the more basic tasks.

I know what you mean Dave. There are days when I think I should scrap Wookery and begin again cos I made too many design errors - mostly the beginners one of trying to cram too much in!
I am still undecided.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 20, 2017, 07:16:23 pm
You may remember that the Manor had a problem with the traction tyre on the right rear driver and I removed it.  Well, the left hand one has now had the same problem and so I have removed that also.  I bought some traction tyres but they seem to be far too small.  I will investigate alternatives but, in general, the Manor pulls its seven coaches well without the traction tyres.

I was disappointed that I didnít manage to get a video of the 9F yesterday, so hereís one I made today.



It rained a lot today, so I didnít get to spend much time in the garden.  But the time was spent usefully in the Train Shed.  I tested the rest of the DOWN loops today.  I adjusted the joint that I was concerned about on Loop 16 with a couple of track pins (they are a boon) and retested with the 38XX.  It went without a hitch.  The 9F test was also good, resulting in the video above.  However, I found that when I came to test the milk train on Track 8, the Class 5 buffer beam came into contact with the suburban coaches on Track 7.  So I moved everything to the DOWN loops and ripped up Track 8 and re-laid it with a tighter radius.  My only fear was that the radius might be too tight for the Class 5 but, when I came to retest it, there was no problem.

The testing activity was followed by calibrating the 64XX with a speed test on the mainline.  I tried to make a video of this but, when I came to view it, there was only a blank viewing window.  Now was the time to move all the trains to their starting positions for the operational timetable.  However, the Jubileeís coaches were marooned in the goods loop, so I decided to use another loco to move them round to their correct starting Track.  The easiest loco for this was the 64XX, so here you will see a video of the 64XX pulling a very unsual train.



At least, this gave me an excuse to re-film the 64XX.  Eventually, everything was in position, including the suburban coaches for the prairie, which still has to materialise.  These two pictures show the loops ready for action (if you ignore the fact that two trains have no loco).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-200317180334-497851743.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-200317180420-498261652.jpeg)

I think I have done enough running for now and my next task will be to start constructing the platforms.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 20, 2017, 08:40:47 pm
Your 9F runs far better than my two do :'( :envy:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Big bad John on March 20, 2017, 08:56:50 pm
Those traction tyres look way too small and that's why they are a  :censored: to fit but they do stretch enough to fit. It would be easy to do if you had three hands and an eye with variable zoom :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 21, 2017, 06:23:53 am
Those traction tyres look way too small and that's why they are a  :censored: to fit but they do stretch enough to fit. It would be easy to do if you had three hands and an eye with variable zoom :D
Do you need to remove the body to fit them, or is it just a matter of fiddling them in?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 21, 2017, 06:25:44 am
Your 9F runs far better than my two do :'( :envy:
Perhaps you noticed how the tender bucks around and the tender top does not quite sit down on the chassis.  I bought it on eBay, so I expect it's as good as I can expect.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Big bad John on March 21, 2017, 12:40:54 pm
I did manage to do one side without removing the body but I ran out of patience with the other side. I could'nt get the body off totaly but I managed to lift the splasher enough to get the tyre on. A few cocktail sticks or similar are very usefull as tyre levers and when I do the job again I will not attempt to remove the body as that seemed almost as dificuilt as fitting the tyre. By the looks of your work you have more patience and are not as ham fisted as I am so you should manage it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 21, 2017, 04:11:01 pm
I only managed a few minutes in the Train Shed this morning. In fact I am having to write this using my freebie tablet. I started on the platforms. The first one is the island platform on the UP line. It is a Ratio plastic kit (in fact many of them) and I am making it double width to allow plenty of room for a Metcalfe platform building and a footbridge. This means gluing the sections together. I am using Wilko clear adhesive, which is a bit like clear Bostick but a lot cheaper. If I have time tomorrow I will try to get some pictures.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: keithbythe sea on March 22, 2017, 08:08:13 am
Good to see you progressing Laurence. I am not familiar with the Wilko glue. However, for the plastic kits I wonder whether a plastic cement would be better. Revell make an excellent one which comes with a fine needle tip applicator.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 22, 2017, 08:58:31 am
There's a danger that 'ordinary' glues can/will string and cause problems.

I was recommended the Humbrol Liquid Poly that comes with a small brush applicator. Found it very good with a little time to adjust a joint or weld.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 22, 2017, 09:34:16 am
I too use plastic cement with a very fine tip applicator which makes things nice and easy. And.....more importantly for mr, avoids me making a big mess!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Fardap on March 22, 2017, 11:10:14 am
I was recommended the Humbrol Liquid Poly that comes with a small brush applicator. Found it very good with a little time to adjust a joint or weld.

Dave G
Always used this for basic plastic kits, as stated it welds the plastic - by melting it so try not to get it on the detail side!!
Superglue where required for small parts - using tweezers!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 22, 2017, 04:18:12 pm
I would never have guessed that a little 64xx could pull so many coaches (far more than in real life?)! Very impressive.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: wookie on March 22, 2017, 04:48:11 pm
Yes it's a tough little bugger isn't it Chris.
Most impressive.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 22, 2017, 07:08:20 pm
Sorry about the absence, but we had to go to the dentist.  Now you might think that is a half hour exercise, but our dentist is in Oxford, about 160 miles away.  We have moved three times since we were in Oxford, but he is a very good dentist and we have stuck with him.  It just makes for a short break.  Likewise when we have our car serviced in Milton Keynes.

Now, letís get back to business.  Firstly, the Jubilee replacement was waiting for us when we returned, as was the micro video camera.  I wonít do much with the latter yet because it needs a memory card and a battery.  But the Jubilee has been programmed and runs pretty well, although I havenít tested it yet a low speed.  I did say no more trains for a while, but I just had to get the Jubilee going.  Incidentally, the 64XX pulled the Jubileeís train at the same speed that it pulls the branch train.  I guess it must be something to do with back EMF.  The load seems to have no effect on the top speed of any of the locos using DCC.

Now letís have a look at the platforms.  I have taken a picture of yesterdayís work.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/3091-220317180132-499152391.jpeg)

You can see that I have overlapped adjoining sections with the side wall to connect them.  I have also cut up the unwanted side walls to join the side by side sections.  The left hand part of the platform is the ramp and it will be bent upward and the ramp side wall will be cut in half to remove the horizontal part and just leave the angled ramp side wall.  The ramp will then be bent upwards and the side walls fitted.  As far as adhesive is concerned, I have tried lots of different adhesives (including plastic cement) and I find the clear Bostick (or substitute) is very easy to use and has the advantage that, if you make a cockup, the parts can (with difficulty) be separated without damage.  Iíll show some more pictures tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: 25901JFM on March 23, 2017, 05:56:46 pm
I would never have guessed that a little 64xx could pull so many coaches (far more than in real life?)! Very impressive.

I've experienced Pannier Tank 6435 hauling 8 BR Mk.1's from Kingswear to Paignton.  The climb from Kingswear to Churston was impressive to say the least!  Just for good measure it was wet as well... I'm not a big steam fan, but I have to say it rates as one of my favourite train rides.

John
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 23, 2017, 08:08:38 pm
Thursday is traditionally a day out for us.  Today we went to the caravan (a family-owned static caravan at Knaresborough, in North Yorkshire).  We only went to set things up after the winter and do some weeding and pruning in the little borders.  So we arrived home in time for me to be able to make some more progress on the island platform (Platforms 2 for the UP main and 3 for the branch).  You can see it here after I had completed the ramps and added one more section to the platform.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-230317184739-500701155.jpeg)

After adding a few more sections, I placed it in position to test it with coaches.  You can see that it is not a bad fit.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-230317184745-50071238.jpeg)

In fact, I seem to have made the gap between the lines a couple of millimetres too much, but it doesnít look too bad.  Hereís a view of the coach on the UP main

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-230317184749-500721970.jpeg)

And another of the coach on the branch

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-230317184732-500691730.jpeg)

Altogether, I have now completed six of the twelve section of the platform, so I have to add another six plus the ramp at the other end.  This is how far I have got

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-230317184726-50068894.jpeg)

I should be able to finish the island platform tomorrow and then move onto the DOWN platform, including the goods bay.  Once they are both complete, I will start on the Metcalfe card kits for the goods shed and the creamery.  Before constructing the platforms associated with them, I need to see how they will dovetail with the Ratio platform kits.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 23, 2017, 08:14:56 pm
Looks very neat Laurence.
Can I suggest that you test clearances with all of your locomotives just to ensure that they don't snag the platform edges. Some locos (notably Class 08 diesel shunters and Farish 2-6-4 standard tanks are quite wide).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 23, 2017, 08:18:31 pm
Looks very neat Laurence.
Can I suggest that you test clearances with all of your locomotives just to ensure that they don't snag the platform edges. Some locos (notably Class 08 diesel sunters) and Farish 2-6-4 standard tanks are quite wide.
Thanks for the tip.  I think the gaps are a bit wider than I had intended, so all should be well.  However, I will test, just to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 23, 2017, 08:35:45 pm
And, if you ever intend to run any autocoaches with your 64xx (which was made for them), run a Dapol autocoach past the platforms, too!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 24, 2017, 08:46:13 pm
Quite a lot has happened today.  First, I beavered away at the island platform and eventually finished it.  Here is a picture of the Grange standing at the UP main platform (it was Platform 3, but will be Platform 4 from now on).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-240317182440-50098478.jpeg)

I added a coach to the Grangeís train so that its ten coaches would utilise the full length of the platform.  Hereís a close up of the Grange standing at the same platform.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-240317182435-50097350.jpeg)

I then brought out the Jubilee with its full 10 coaches to check the platform again.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-240317182432-50096141.jpeg)

At this stage, I decided that it would be a good opportunity to run the Grange for a few circuits to aid running in.  I ran it in a tail chase with the Jubilee to give the new Jubilee a good workout.  Some more snags came to light and I addressed each as it appeared.  I also decided to renumber the platforms.  The parcels bay opposite the DOWN platform has not had a number until now, so I decided that it should be numbered Platform 1.  This re-assigns the DOWN platform Platform 2, the UP platform as Platform 3 and the branch platform as Platform 4.  After lunch, I sorted out the pea bed, weeded the carrot/parsnip bed and planted the carrots.  Then it was back to the Train Shed. 

However, before that I took the plunge and ordered a new loco.  So far I have three ex-LMS locos, the Royal Scott, the Jubilee and the Class 5.  I also have six ex-GWR locos, the Hall, the Grange, the Manor, the 38XX, the 57XX and the 64XX.  I only have one ex-LNER loco, the B17 but I have three BR standard locos:  the 9F (mainly running on Eastern Region), the 2-6-4T (based on the LMS design) and the prairie tank (based on a GWR design).  The latter has yet to materialise.  So I thought it might be a good idea to have another ex-LNER loco and I have ordered a J39 from Track Shack.  This will pull the local goods, releasing the 57XX, initially to pull the local passenger until the prairie appears.  After that, I can use it in the goods yard or even think about a branch goods train.  The latter could involve creating a new bay platform (Platform5) by reducing the length of the ridiculously long branch platform.

I continued the trail chase, still finding snags.  I made a short video of the Grange and the Jubilee passing in the station.



Many of the snags involved coach derailments and I think I have fixed it by simply moving the problem coaches to a different part of the train.  I have now started on the DOWN platform, but had a slight problem early on.  When I came to bend the ramp section it snapped.  I decided that the better part of valour was to strap it together as a main platform section and bend another ramp.  This has worked reasonably well, although Iím having to apply quite a weight to the ramp to keep it in shape.  I hope that by morning, everything will have settled down.

One thing I have noticed from the tail chase is that the Grange is now considerably faster than it was initially.  I have had to reduce the Top Voltage to keep it to 60 mph.  It is also less graunchy, although it improves as it warms up and may be back to normal tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 24, 2017, 08:57:17 pm


One thing I have noticed from the tail chase is that the Grange is now considerably faster than it was initially.  I have had to reduce the Top Voltage to keep it to 60 mph.  It is also less graunchy, although it improves as it warms up and may be back to normal tomorrow.

I have had a few Dapol locos that have taken a lot more than 1 hour to run in so maybe it's just loosening up now.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 25, 2017, 06:12:09 am
Pleased to see the Grange is behaving.

A ten coach train is double the capacity Hurst Hill can manage so just a tad envious!  :envy:

You mentioned you are using Ratio platform kits. Does that include the 'slabs' for the platform pavement? They look good.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 25, 2017, 06:30:20 am
You mentioned you are using Ratio platform kits. Does that include the 'slabs' for the platform pavement? They look good.
Dave G
The kit comes with pre-formed edging slabs, but no top surface.  I have produced a sheet of paper slabs to stick on the main surface, which will cover all the cracks.  Here's a picture of the sheet.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-250317062855-502046.png)

I will need to paint the side bricks and stone edging before I paper the top surface.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 25, 2017, 08:56:45 am
Thank you for this, Laurence. I had two alternatives for the station platform paving areas neither of which I liked but yours looks excellent and I have downloaded it and, with your permission, will try it out. (I may lighten the colour though as the slabs seem too dark to me for a sunny day in early Summer. 8-) )

If you will be using an ER loco. for the branch goods, one end of the branch must connect directly to the ER? 9Fs certainly ran on the WR which had an allocation of them.

I also envy your layout's ability to run 10-coach trains as really 5 is the maximum for mine and between 2 and 4 more usual.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 25, 2017, 10:56:09 am
I posted a PDF of the slabs a few months ago.  If you like, I can PM it to you, Chris.

The 9F with its fish and perishable load is supposed to represent a train from the North East, probably Hull, arriving in the south via the old Great Central and so the local goods would connect via the same line(s).  The local goods will be hauled by the J39.  If I run a branch goods, it will be hauled by the freed up 57XX.

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 25, 2017, 07:20:00 pm
Today was another busy day.  Before we walked into town to the butchers, I found that my weather station had stopped working again.  I planned to go up and investigate when I returned.  However, when I returned I noticed that the current data in the weather bulletin was still working, although no records had downloaded.  I investigated the data logger in the Instation and after I had unplugged it and reinserted it, the problem was cured.  Phew!

I did a couple of garden jobs and then moved into the train shed.  There was a lot more tail chasing, this time with the Manor and the B17.  Both behaved impeccably, apart from the fact that the running in had speeded both up.  The Manor had previously struggled to get anywhere near 60mph, but now I had to reduce its Top Voltage considerably to keep its top speed down to 60mph.  Meanwhile, I continued to add sections to the DOWN platform.

By lunchtime, the postman had been and delivered the J39.  Yipee!  :bounce: After lunch there was the grass (note Ė NOT lawn) to cut.  But after a cup of tea, I spent another hour in the Train shed.  First I tested the J39 on DC without a problem.  Then I reprogrammed the 57XX to Loco 2 to pull the second local passenger, followed by programming the J39 to Loco 10 to pull the local goods.  The J39 worked well and I was able to run it fast for a circuit to make sure it was in good working order and then re-programmed it to run at about 20mph.  Hereís a video of it passing through the station.



After that I tested the 57XX with the local passenger, but to my dismay, the carriages kept derailing at points.  All three suffered from the same problem and all three at just about every point, although not every time.  My other suburban carriages are all OK behind the 2 6 4T, so Iím not sure whatís going on there.  I will need to investigate further.

But then it was on with the platform.  I have now completed all of the double width part of the platform and the final bit will be to add the single width portion alongside the bay platform.  This is the progress I made today.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-250317180944-50222257.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on March 25, 2017, 07:46:24 pm
Quite a transformation in the month I have been absent Laurence, excellent  progress, great to hear you reporting that track & loco are finally behaving impeccably!  You deserve that after all the patience & persistence you have shown.

One question I have had is how do you arrive at the scale speeds...is there some science to it?

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 25, 2017, 08:10:09 pm
One question I have had is how do you arrive at the scale speeds...is there some science to it?

Cheers,
Andrew
There are two methods I use to confirm the speed.  First, the distance round a complete circuit is about 2 1/4 miles, so a scale speed of 60 mph should take a train about 2 minutes 15 seconds.  The second is to listen to the wheel beats.  The coaches are about 60 feet long so 1 per second (or 60 per minute) is 60 feet per second, which is pretty close to 40 mph and and 60 in forty seconds is about 60mph.  In fact, 60 in forty seconds gives a circuit time of 2 minutes 12 seconds, so the approximation is pretty good.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 25, 2017, 08:46:20 pm
I posted a PDF of the slabs a few months ago.  If you like, I can PM it to you, Chris.


Yes, please, Lawrence. Did you create it as a .PDF or was there a preceding graphics file? I ask because I would like to experiment with lightening the shade of grey.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 25, 2017, 08:59:22 pm
Chris, I use Gimp and that will import PDF files as JPG that can then  be modified. No doubt there are other programs which will do similar.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 25, 2017, 09:00:15 pm
It was originally a PowerPoint (pptx) file.  I tried to PM it to you, but I can't see how to attach it.  If you PM me your Email address I can send it to you.  The only allowed types for attachments to posts are PDF, but I can attach the PPTX to an Email.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 25, 2017, 09:17:12 pm
Chris, I use Gimp and that will import PDF files as JPG that can then  be modified. No doubt there are other programs which will do similar.

Thanks, Lawrence. I have software to convert .PDFs into a variety of formats but if you had created in a graphics file that might be better definition?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 26, 2017, 06:42:35 am
The picture I posted yesterday was a PNG, which is graphics but I have reattached the PDF here.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 26, 2017, 11:26:18 am
The picture I posted yesterday was a PNG, which is graphics but I have reattached the PDF here.

Many thanks, Lawrence. Now I have no excuse (apart from lack of free time) not to complete Cant Cove's station platforms (the 'gravelled' sections are already done).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 26, 2017, 08:45:09 pm
Today started well enough but, unfortunately, ended rather badly.  We usually go for a walk on Sunday morning and today, being a beautiful day, we walked along the river, which is one of our favourite walks.  After Coffee there was pruning to do and I stacked everything up ready for shredding.  Then it was down to the Train Shed.  I started on the single width section of the DOWN platform and you might be interested in the detail of how I reduced the width to create the bay platform.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-260317183802-502821278.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-260317183806-502831835.jpeg)

When I had finished the whole platform and left it to cure over lunch, I took a couple of pictures of both platforms in place, one from the DOWN end of the station

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-260317183735-50278111.jpeg)

And one at rail level from the UP end of the station.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-260317183731-50277493.jpeg)

First thing this morning I had an Email from Amazon to say that my order would be delivered today (on a Sunday?).  After lunch, I started on the shredding.  Just before I finished a delivery driver appeared with my parcel.  It was a really good buy.  First, there was a set of tweezers, which were really good.  I need more than one pair.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-260317183745-50279813.jpeg)

Then there was the Optivisor.  You may remember that a week or two ago I bought a cheap and cheerful magnifier, which was difficult to use.  Well, the Optivisor is really good.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-260317183747-50280683.jpeg)

With the Optivisor and the tweezers, I was able to quickly fit the right hand traction tyre to the Manor.  The left hand one proved to be more obstinate and I had to remove the bolt from the centre driver as well to move the connecting rod right out of the way.  It still proved a bit of a challenge, but it didnít take too long.  The difference that the new equipment made was tremendous.

After that, I decided I would test the platform clearances with the 2-6-4T and at the same time try to resolve the suburban coach problem with the 57XX.  The 2-6-4T required a couple of slight platform adjustments but, otherwise, it was OK.  However, the 57XXís coaches did their usual trick of derailing.  So I swapped the last three of the 2-6-4Tís train with the three behind the 57XX.  Sure enough, the last three behind the 2-6-4T now derailed while the 57XX ran without a hitch.  So it was the coaches.

While recovering the derailment, I accidentally moved the milk train forwards and caused a short.  Unfortunately, I failed to notice the movement of the milk train and had great fun (GrrÖ :censored:) trying to find the short.  Eventually I found the culprit and rectified the problem.  However, when I switched on again, there was a permanent short, which I was unable to find.  I disconnected boards, but was unable to isolate the large and small DOWN loop boards from each other, even though I disconnected the plugs.  I then slid back all the rail joiners, but the short still persisted.  I checked the DCC bus rails and the short remained.  I started to disconnect droppers and, eventually, I had disconnected every dropper on the small board, still without finding the culprit.  By now things were getting desperate.  Eventually, well into dinner time, I found that one of the branch pointsí frog isolator was stuck in the mid position.  That solved the problem.  I managed to get all the joiners back in position, but I will have to reinsert a couple of track pins.  So, tomorrow, when I eventually get into the Train Shed, I will have to reconnect all the droppers before I can carry on with the suburban coach testing.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on March 27, 2017, 07:27:25 am
Looking good Laurence, the platforms are coming along well.  I have a similar set of tweezers, but you have me thinking about the Optivisor, beginning to need something like that, though I got some stronger reading glasses (+2) after my last eye test and they have helped immensely!

Sorry to hear about more electrical issues..... I might just keep concentrating on the scenery for now :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: jonclox on March 27, 2017, 02:24:02 pm
 :) I like the tweezers and the Optivisor head set. :thumbsup:
Im sure they will be of a lot of help as you carry on with the layout and loco rewiring etc..  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 27, 2017, 07:40:40 pm
Phew! :bounce: I managed to get into the Train Shed for half an hour this morning before we went off to play table tennis.  I realigned the track pins and connected up all the droppers and switched on.  It all worked.  So I set both the suburban trains going, minus the three dodgy coaches and it all worked a treat.  After-lunch gardening was followed by another session.  This time I managed to eliminate one of the coaches and dealt with the other by swapping its position.  That left me with one that would not work.  I investigated it over the points and noticed that it seemed to jump over points when switched to the turn out.  It seemed to be only one bogie that was a problem.  I found that the wheels all ran freely but noticed that the bogie pivot was much stiffer than the other.  It seems that when there was a sudden change of direction, such as a point turn out, the bogie did not follow the curve easily, which caused it to jump and, frequently, derail.  I tried lubricating the pivot, but to no avail.  Eventually, I tried prising it away from the floor of the coach and that freed it up.  I pushed it back as far as I could without causing it to seize up again and, after that, it ran perfectly.  So all the suburban coaches are now running well.  If I have any more problems with the corridor coaches, I will see if the bogie pivot is causing the problem.

After that, there was lots of tail chasing with the suburban trains, mainly to see if I could free up the 2-6-4T which, although it was good on most of the circuit, coughed in a couple of places in the loops.  I then used the 2-6-4T to check the platform clearance.  There was no problem with the DOWN platform, which only had the bay platform on the other side, but the island platform was a little bit more of a problem.  It either caught on the branch side or on the UP main side.  Fortunately, I was able to move the tracks slightly because Copydex allows a certain amount of flexibility.  Here are a couple of videos of the 2-6-4T passing through the station.  The first is on the DOWN line.



And the second is of it retracing its steps on the UP line.



That did the trick and I then continued to run the 2-6-4T at a much faster speed than normal, to try and run it in.

While all this was going on, I began assembling the Metcalfe goods shed kit.  I have now assembled three sides and I am waiting for the glue to cure before completing the fourth.  I hope to post some pictures tomorrow.  I must get hold of some water colour pencils to colour in the card edges where there are scores and cuts.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: MrDobilina on March 28, 2017, 01:38:56 pm
Just ordered some tweezers myself, pack of 9 pixnor tweezers for £6 with a carry case! Been meaning to get some for a while now
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 28, 2017, 08:16:55 pm
First thing this morning I made some more progress on the goods shed.  I continued to run in the 2-6-4T.  It seems that it is very stop-start when it is cold, but it soon warms up.  When I tried it again after lunch, the same thing happened, although the effect was less severe.  So I just kept running it round and round while I concentrated on the goods shed.  Here you can see the goods shed from the UP end, awaiting its roof.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-280317192145-504121264.jpeg)

And hereís a picture of it from the other end, also minus its roof.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-280317192153-504142268.jpeg)

Once I got on with it I managed to get some pictures in situ, although still not fully compete.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-280317192131-504102421.jpeg)

You will notice that it is a little too far to the left, with the right hand wall sitting on the track underlay.  Here is another picture taken from the other end.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-280317192133-50411906.jpeg)

And another taken ďblindĒ from the back.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-280317192146-50413276.jpeg)

At this stage I had not fitted the ridge tiles.  So here is a picture with the ridge tiles fitted

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-280317192122-504001411.jpeg)

Once I started to clear up, I realised that I had forgotten the office chimney.  So I had to remove the office ridge tiles and cut out a space for the chimney stack.  The chimney is now fitted and only awaits the chimney pots, which I have to make tomorrow.  You will notice that the card edges still show in white.  I have ordered some watercolour pencils and will sort out the card edges once they arrive.

I followed the instructions to the letter but, if I were to do it again, I would not stick down the triangular wall section opposite the internal platform until after fitting the rail side wall.  This would ensure that it was easier to make the two side extensions of the end walls to meet in the middle.

While all this was going on, I persevered with the 2-6-4T.  It is fine when the scale speed is about 60mph, but at its expected 40mph, there are a few points of hiatus around the circuit.  Also, it looks as though my deceleration plan into the loops wonít work with this loco, although most of the others, apart from the 20mph ones, respond well.  So I may need a new deceleration plan for trains entering the loops.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 28, 2017, 08:36:34 pm
A bit late now, Laurence, but before putting the roof on you could have put some 'clutter' on the inside platform of the shed. Maybe you can get at it before finally fixing the building down permanently :hmmm:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 28, 2017, 08:39:05 pm
A bit late now, Laurence, but before putting the roof on you could have put some 'clutter' on the inside platform of the shed. Maybe you can get at it before finally fixing the building down permanently :hmmm:
Point taken.  It shouldn't be too much trouble to put in some clutter.  All I have to do is find something(s) appropriate.  I won't be fixing it in place for some time yet.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on March 28, 2017, 08:43:59 pm
I am a great fan of 'Metcalfe' and the shed looks good, even though it is not quite finished. I also like the suggestion by NPN - would make it even more realistic. I have nearly finished the 'Metcalfe' semi detached house and have put some furniture and a, (huge), indoor plant into one of the conservatories - looks good even if I do say so myself. Not sure whether it will be visible when it eventually gets to the layout, but that is a different matter.  :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 28, 2017, 09:18:05 pm
I don't know if there would be room for a crane on that interior platform, Lawrence, but some crates, sacks, barrels, as suggested above, could look good. Will you have a crane in the goods yard?

I would also consider changing the colour of the bargeboards and other woodwork like doors to WR chocolate brown or LMR Maroon instead of green with cream doorframes?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 28, 2017, 09:20:37 pm
Constructing a Metcalfe kit can be highly satisfying and the planned water colour pencils are certainly a good idea.

If I may make a suggestion, try using the pencils to colour in/hide the folds and unwanted white bits after folding but before glueing. It's a lot easier than trying to 'cut in' once you have a built up structure.

Dave G

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 28, 2017, 09:29:25 pm
Laurence - I don't know if you have a 'Works' craft equipment place near you but these brush pens were astounding value for money if they still have them cheap..............

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36314.msg431069#msg431069 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36314.msg431069#msg431069)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on March 28, 2017, 09:44:20 pm
I was in the Enniskillen branch last Saturday and the Brush Pens were still available - at the princely sum of £3! I have bought two more tins of them since my original purchase - excellent a) value for money - and b) for 'Metcalfe' kits, just don't let the pen slip when you are covering the white bits, otherwise you need to create a climbing plant to go up the walls. Don't ask!  :doh:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on March 28, 2017, 11:42:37 pm
Good to see you getting started on the scenic stuff, Laurence. This must be gratifying to you.

I've never made a Metcalfe kit, but I'm wondering if it would be easier to colour out the white edges before assembly?

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on March 29, 2017, 06:00:19 am
....  for 'Metcalfe' kits, just don't let the pen slip when you are covering the white bits, otherwise you need to create a climbing plant to go up the walls. Don't ask!  :doh:

Oh yes!  :(

Hence my suggestion!  ;)

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on March 29, 2017, 06:32:18 am
Sorry Dave about repeating your suggestion. I didn't see the current page of replies until now.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on March 29, 2017, 07:12:19 am
All this reminds me, I've got a Metcalf kit I haven't built yet. Been under the bed for 3 years.

Never made one before. It's an early low relief kit.

Round tuit  :-[
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on March 29, 2017, 08:08:29 am
Good work on the shed, I wondered, when you have it in situ against the platform, would there be a door there for ease of access?

Looking good though, if your rate of progress on the scenery is anything like the progress on the track... you could be done by the end of the summer!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 29, 2017, 08:13:15 am
Good work on the shed, I wondered, when you have it in situ against the platform, would there be a door there for ease of access?
A door might be a good idea. 
Looking good though, if your rate of progress on the scenery is anything like the progress on the track... you could be done by the end of the summer!
But which summer?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 29, 2017, 08:16:52 pm
Today the watercolour pencils arrived.  I made a chimney pot, using a nail as a former and fitted it to the chimney that I had added yesterday.  I used the watercolour pencils to try and colour in the card edges.  I think that what I did was not too bad, but some areas will be almost impossible and the points of the pencils need constant re-sharpening.  To be fair, the instructions did say to colour the edges before assembly, but I didnít have the pencils then and I really wanted to get on with the goods shed.  It is the first card model I have made, added to which, this is my first model railway project for thirty years and so I really did want to ďhave a goĒ.  I have learned a lot from making this model and I think that I will put it down to experience.  I think it is good enough for now.  Hereís a picture of it with the chimney added and some of the edges coloured in.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-290317200847-504442403.jpeg)

But I do think I will make another goods shed eventually, when I have finished all the other buildings and platforms.  I took a picture of the J39 emerging from the goods shed and moving along the goods platform.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-290317200857-504542402.jpeg)

Hereís another picture showing the rear of the local goods entering the goods shed. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-290317200853-504532412.jpeg)

So, given that I am eventually going to replace it (with an identical, but better assembled kit) I donít intend to do any more with it at present.  I have unpacked the Metcalfe small factory and had a good look at the instructions.  I havenít started it yet because I have ordered some of their glue bottles and the UHU glue they recommend, together with a cutting board, which will save me from having to cut up on the baseboard tops.

So, in the absence of any immediate scenic work, I have continued to run in the 2-6-4T, which really shows little sign of improvement.  All the other locos have improved, but this one is obstinate.  There are particular points on the track where it cuts out and then restarts, but none of the other locos are affected by them.  I ran it in a tail chase with the graunchy Grange, but the latter is now much better and wasnít affected by those sections of track.  I tried running the 2-6-4T at a much lower speed and that actually seems less prone to coughing.  So itís probably a case of KBO.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 29, 2017, 08:26:46 pm
I find its best to keep the watercolour pencils quite wet-I continually dip them in water.
And, don't have them too sharp.
Looks good for a first attempt though.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 29, 2017, 08:42:04 pm
Looks good. :thumbsup: I'm not a great lover of Metcalf kits. They all seem to have the "sameness" look. As with all card kits if the edges are damaged and begin to delaminate a trick is to run liquid super glue along the edges to protect them. Unfortunately you can't use water based pencils afterwards to colour them, only acrylics.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on March 29, 2017, 09:05:57 pm
@Innovationgame (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3091)  Laurence, the goods shed looks quite presentable. With regard to using UHU, unless I have used the wrong UHU, I would not use it myself on a card kit, I find it rather 'stringy'. I always use Roket Card Glue, it is a bit thin, so you have to be careful using it from the bottle, but a cocktail stick is ideal for getting small drops into the right place. And it starts to dry in seconds.  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 29, 2017, 09:34:33 pm
Metcalfe recommend UHU Solvent Free Glue to use with their fine nozzle applicators.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on March 30, 2017, 08:34:23 am
The goods shed is looking good, I think it is worth keeping your caveat's in mind, I came back to the hobby after a gap of 20 years (though that was also 9 years ago, so I am not able to use that as an excuse much more) and I look back on my earlier efforts with a bit of cringe, but it is all about the fun & the fun while learning (I need to keep telling myself that while soldering!)

Hope the obstinate loco falls into line soon!

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 30, 2017, 09:59:59 am
Hope the obstinate loco falls into line soon!
Well if not, I'll have to come up with a contingency plan.  :)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on March 30, 2017, 10:25:21 am
hopefully that contingency does not include a letter of invitation to the Woodham brothers in Barry......
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 30, 2017, 10:31:48 am
hopefully that contingency does not include a letter of invitation to the Woodham brothers in Barry......
I don't think they do plastic! But, seriously, I might have to revise my original plan for unseen timings to control everything and actually use a hands on approach to stopping in the hidden loops.  Either that or get some position sensors.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 30, 2017, 08:16:10 pm
I have not done any more on the Metcalfe card buildings today.  I am waiting for the recommended glue and applicators to come from Metcalfe.  Instead, apart from gardening, I have been employing myself usefully recording the timings of the various trains from start to slow down or stop.  I donít intend to simply use the times irrespective of where the trains are on the layout, but it is useful to know them when constructing the timetable.  At least then I will then be able to get my operational commands in the right order.  Now I did do this initially using spreadsheet calculations based on a literal interpretation of the NMRA specification for DCC decoders.  So if I were to set the deceleration CV to a value of 20, I would expect the loco to take about 18 seconds to come to rest.  In practise it does not work like that.  If the top speed is set to a high percentage of applied voltage, it seems to take a lot longer.  On the other hand, if the top speed is set to a low percentage of applied voltage, it takes much less time.  The other problem is that the CV should be able to be set between 0 and 255.  However, anything higher that 127 results in a zero time (in other words an immediate halt).  I can only assume that the decoder is treating the value as a signed integer and thus anything higher than 127 is regarded as negative.  If you understand binary arithmetic you will understand, otherwise please just take my word for it.

The upshot of all this is that the only way to determine the travel times is to do it by practical experiment, which is what I have been doing today.  So it was all good fun and any excuse to run a few trains on a seemingly uninteresting layout, scenery wise.  I also discovered a couple of additional snags which I was able to fix, one by inserting a little extra underlay under one side of a track joint at a board joint and the other by means of an additional track pin.  I did manage to get a picture of a fairly realistic scenario.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-300317183620-504641377.jpeg)

Here you see the J39 entering the goods depot while Royal Ulster Rifleman thunders by on the UP line.  On the other side of the island platform the 64XX awaits its departure with the branch train.  Next to the branch train is the Class 5 with the milk train, presumably awaiting the arrival of the milk depot.  Once I have received the glue and dispensers from Metcalfe I will get on with constructing their small factory which I intend to serve as the creamery with an adjoining platform.  Just in case you think this photo has been staged, hereís a short video taken from a different angle.



Unfortunately, because it was taken with my phone, the light and definition are not too good, but I think you should be able to recognise the various locomotives.  Today I planted the parsnips and tomorrow, traditionally on the last Friday in March, I will plant the potatoes.  But I should get some time in the Train Shed as well.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on March 30, 2017, 08:19:50 pm
Thanks for the daily updates Laurence.
You are certainly methodical.
On the veg front, our parsnios and potatoes will wait another week.
Shallots, however, are already in.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on March 30, 2017, 09:03:27 pm
Looking good.  :thumbsup:  I always thought locos were unwelcome in goods sheds because of the smoke. It was normal practice to push the wagons into the shed. A second run round line was provided for this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 31, 2017, 06:38:59 am
Looking good.  :thumbsup:  I always thought locos were unwelcome in goods sheds because of the smoke. It was normal practice to push the wagons into the shed. A second run round line was provided for this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You're probably right, but I don't want to have to do uncoupling and shunting, so a bit of poetic license has been used.  Perhaps the loco might coast through very quickly.  On the other hand, I did not originally intend to have a goods shed but a goods depot with a building at the back of the platform, so that might be the eventual outcome.  Anyway, I will continue to run the local goods straight into the goods depot.  I do have a sign in the Train Shed that I could use.  I will post a picture of it later.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on March 31, 2017, 08:20:14 am
We don't have the benefit of the southern climate, we only have pea's & carrots planted outside so far, but we do have onions, shallots, garlic, tomato's, squash, sweetcorn, courgette & cucumber planted in the polytunnel :)  I can't claim any credit for any of that, other than having built the raised beds (and filled them), my partner is the gardner!

Good to hear you had a fun day testing trains, was curious what the white box was on the wall by the window?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 31, 2017, 09:08:10 am
Good to hear you had a fun day testing trains, was curious what the white box was on the wall by the window?
It's a maximum and minimum thermometer so that I can keep track of the effect of the heating, which I turned off yesterday.  We don't have a southern climate here in Yorkshire, but it's probably more clement than the north of Scotland.  I was in Yorkshire for the winter of 1963.  that was something unbelievable.  Some villages had snow up to the eaves!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on March 31, 2017, 11:37:31 am
I was in Yorkshire for the winter of 1963.  that was something unbelievable.  Some villages had snow up to the eaves!

That was a shocker, Laurence. I was 10 at the time and remember leaving the house through a tunnel of snow to go to school. Of course, those were the days when we had proper winters and the schools didn't close at just a forecast of snow ::) (Cue Monty Python's Four Yorkshiremen sketch)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Fardap on March 31, 2017, 11:38:01 am
For the edges on card kits I uses brush pens, works seems to have similar at £4 a set. The advantage being they are a brush rather than a pencil tip so I find them easier to apply. The set I have seem to have lots of darker shades and browns, but it is quite old... work well though.

Great updates, only thing I would say about goods shed is the position means that the train as illustrated is blocking the junction, if it were further down the line that wouldn't be an issue, up to a certain length...

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 31, 2017, 01:24:53 pm
For the edges on card kits I uses brush pens, works seems to have similar at £4 a set. The advantage being they are a brush rather than a pencil tip so I find them easier to apply. The set I have seem to have lots of darker shades and browns, but it is quite old... work well though.

Thanks for the tip.  I wont rush out and buy some yet.  I will see how I get on colouriing in the edges with the side of the "lead" (for want of a better word).  I should be able to do that if I colour the card before I assemble it.

Great updates, only thing I would say about goods shed is the position means that the train as illustrated is blocking the junction, if it were further down the line that wouldn't be an issue, up to a certain length...
The good shed is really a stand in for a proper goods depot.  There is a long tail shunt into the goods yard, so reversing trains through the goods shed should not be a problem.  However, the long platform adjacent to the shed is where the loading and unloading is supposed to take place.  Eventually I might try scratch building a goods depot behind the platform.  In the original  prototype, the goods shed was at the other end of the station and, as far as I knew, it had been disused for many years.

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on March 31, 2017, 08:26:28 pm
Well, at least I got some good work done in the garden.  I have planted all the potatoes and stripped all the bubble wrap and fleece out of the greenhouse.  So, after lunch it was back to the Train Shed.  I am still awaiting the glue and dispensers, so it was on with timing the trains.  It wasnít quite that simple, because I went back and checked all the settings I had made earlier.  The Manor didnít perform too badly, but I think it still needs a good bit of running in.  It runs much better at a scale speed of about 40 mph than at full speed.  However, I managed to get some times and put it too bed for a while.  Then it was the turn of the Jubilee.  Again, there were one of two issue but, on the whole, it wasnít too bad.

So now it was on to the big issue.  The 38XX could not be programmed to run into the loops because of its slow full speed.  So I hit on the idea of increasing its full speed and running at a controller setting of 10 (out of 28).  I should have mentioned that the delineation between the visible layout will be tunnel entrances and, when the rear and of the train disappears into the tunnel, I turn the controller to a setting of zero, allowing the deceleration to halt the train at the correct position in the loops.  The setting up took a little time to perfect and required quite a bit of fiddling about with the numbers.  To cap it all, the pony wheels, which had previously just waved about in the air without causing a problem, now started to foul trailing points.  So I removed the pony truck and I am currently running it as an 0-8-0, which looks a little strange, but will allow me to get the numbers right.  Before I reached that stage I was able to make a short video of it passing through the station at about 20 mph.



I also took a picture of it in the distance, showing the full extent of the mineral train.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-310317181758-50496588.jpeg)

I then had a problem with derailment at a place where there had never been a problem before.  On closer examination, the insulated joiner had moved, creating a drop in the level of the left hand rail at a trailing point.  I was able to fix that and there was no further issue.  However, I still donít have a complete set of timings from start to stop.  I really must get in touch with Dapol to see if there is a fix for the pony truck and get another securing screw.

The way I solved the problem of getting the train into the loops was as follows.  I run the train from one set of loops to the other with a control setting of 10.  When the back of the train disappears into the tunnel at the end of the main line, I quickly turn the controller to the maximum setting and then back to zero.  This means the loco decelerates from a much higher speed and I can get it into the loops successfully.  Now this should not happen according to the NMRA information, but it works.  At least I now have a strategy for getting all the slow trains into the loops.

The problem of smoke in the goods shed might be alleviated by installing a sign like the one below

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-310317181811-50500225.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 01, 2017, 08:06:56 pm
Today, being a Saturday, began with our usual walk into town to the Butcherís.  While there I bought a fine misting bottle from Boots, ready for when I need to do some ballasting or real scenic work.  At £1.55 a bottle, I think it was good value.  When we arrived home, there was a parcel awaiting me from Metcalfe.  It was the UHU glue, fine tip glue applicators and cutting board.  We then set about some garden tasks, during which time another package arrived from the Trainshop with a Peco NE brake van kit.  After lunch there was more to do in the garden, but then it was down to the Train Shed.

Today I refitted the 38XX bogie and made sure it was fully home before continuing the timings.  It was fine and the timings were soon put to bed.  But now there was todayís post to deal with.  First, I made up the NE brake van

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-010417183927-5053061.jpeg)

The couplings are a bit droopy and I need to find out how to get them up to a normal elevation.  Then there was the Metcalf package.  Hereís a picture of the glue and fine tip applicators.  One tube of glue fills two applicators.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-010417183920-50529211.jpeg)

After that, it was on with the small factory card kit.  Hereís one of the fine tip applicators in action.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-010417183917-505271613.jpeg)

My approach to building, slightly different from the instructions, is to start on the bits for one sub-assembly, putting the part assembled bits into the builderís yard.  Anyway, I now have the four sides of building ďAĒ complete and I am ready to start on the floor.  Pictures will follow when I have started to assemble the parts.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on April 01, 2017, 08:47:18 pm
Good evening Lawrence, the Peco kits are very good but I would not advise immediate assembly after purchase / arrival. What I do is, first, clean all the plastic parts, excluding the wheels, in warm soapy (use a little washing up liquid) water in a small bowl, then, with an old toothbrush and some CIF, carefully brush clean the body, chassis, and roof (if it has one) to remove any traces of oil / grease from the moulding process, then let them dry on a tea towel. Then in a well-ventilated space, wearing a face mask, using generic satin black aerosol spray paint (from a suitable distance -- too close the paint 'clogs') the chassis, with a darker grey the roof, then with a suitable grey or brown spray the body. Halford's aerosol paint matt grey undercoat is good for BR Goods Grey and their matt red-brown undercoat for Early BR Goods Bauxite. (The elaborate cleaning procedure ensures that the spraypaint will adhere well to the plastic.)

In my local DIY hyper market, I bought a range of their own brand (made in Germany) generic greys, browns and other colour aerosol spraypaints for my goods stock. Finally, I handpaint the buffers a dull silver with locally bought modeller's paint. I use ordinary sticky tape on the floor of an old cardboard box to hold the pieces being spraypainted. Make sure that the tape does not leave any sticky residue. Then weather to taste. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 02, 2017, 06:38:40 am
Thanks for the advice about painting, Chris.  I can soon remove the nuts and take it apart again.  Do you have any thoughts about the couplings?  I suppose I could use another tiny spot of blue tack.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on April 02, 2017, 08:15:16 am
My pleasure, Lawrence. Maybe, a small piece of plasticard glued to restrict the downward movement of the coupling? Peco used to include a small piece of plastic in their kits for this purpose? It's very much a question of trial and error most of my Peco kit goods stock does not suffer from 'drooping couplings' bit a few have.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 02, 2017, 08:30:38 am
you have opened the floodgates now :) 

I have not had any issue with droop myself with the kits I have made up, would agree with Chris, a slither of plasticard to extend the length of the lug would work.  I have a few droopy couplings on RTR stuff (more prevalent in older examples it has to be said)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on April 02, 2017, 08:59:10 am
Laurence

With regards to painting things, it happens that the latest issue of the Model Railroad Hobbyist has an article on this. MRH is free and the April issue can be accessed through a link in the following post by Jon898:

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=37117.msg439258#msg439258 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=37117.msg439258#msg439258)

The issue of preparing plastic prior to painting is one that I've come against in recent times. If a painted item is going to be handled as wagons would be, I think it is a good idea to clean the surface prior to painting as Chris suggests.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on April 02, 2017, 08:13:38 pm
I have a few droopy couplings on RTR stuff (more prevalent in older examples it has to be said)

Yep, the older you get............. :(

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 02, 2017, 08:14:08 pm
Today began with table tennis and then gardening.  Yes, I know table tennis is on a Monday, but we have a committee meeting tomorrow and so, rather than miss out, we played today instead.  I eventually got into the Train Shed sometime this afternoon.  I carried on working on the small factory, destined to be the milk depot.  I intended to show a picture of it before I put the back on, but by the time I remembered it was too late.  However, hereís a picture of it before the roof went on.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-020417175019-505512415.jpeg)

I made three mistakes with the model.  The first was that I fixed the back quoins upside down.  There is a slightly larger stone at the bottom but the two wrong ones have it at the top.  I suspect that not many people would spot it unless they were told.  The second was more serious.  When I fixed the inside walls above the roof, one of them must have moved and I didnít notice.  This resulted in two problems: one was that I had to shave a little off the top to fix the capping stones on that side; the second was an exposed strip of white card.  I have doctored this with one of my watercolour pencils, but Iím not completely happy with it.  The third was that I forgot to colour round inside the door openings in the outside boards, but itís not really noticeable unless you look hard.  On that front, this is the set of watercolour pencils I bought.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-020417175017-50550455.jpeg)

They are easy to use along edges.  I just dip the point in water and then use the side of the colouring element to colour the edges.  Hereís an example of it in action.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-020417175006-505492100.jpeg)

Every now and then I have to sharpen the pencil a little, but thatís not a problem.  I have almost completed Building ďAĒ of the small factory, but have yet to install the platform canopy.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-020417175004-505381501.jpeg)

This will be the road side of the milk depot, so the platform will be loaded with milk churns when the model is installed in the layout.  Itís not quite authentic because the north light windows in the roof will point south, but only I know the direction of the tracks.  I am now getting withdrawal symptoms for lack of running trains so, when I have completed the canopy, I might resort to running a few trains before embarking on Building ďBĒ.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on April 02, 2017, 08:17:09 pm
Snap. That's the same water colour pencil set that I have.
Enjoy running a few trains later Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on April 03, 2017, 06:11:27 am
The small factory has come out well, Laurence.  It's a nice model and very sturdy.

I have overlaid a number of Metcalfe kits with Redutex roof tile and found that significantly improves the appearance of the buildings.

https://www.dccsupplies.com/cl-861/redutex-3d-construction-textures.htm (https://www.dccsupplies.com/cl-861/redutex-3d-construction-textures.htm)

I expect the materials is also available elsewhere. It's not cheap but I think worth the investment.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 03, 2017, 08:44:38 pm
I managed to get down to the Train Shed for a couple of hours today.  First, I finished off Building ďAĒ by adding the canopy.  Hereís a picture of the completed building.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-030417184935-50596213.jpeg)

For the picture, I have located it in approximately its final position for effect.  Actually, itís not quite complete, because the instructions say to add a single row of ridge tiles to the top of the canopy.  However, I made a couple of attempts at slicing off a single row by using a craft knife and steel rule, but the strips are so thin that they slip under the steel rule.  I might try cutting from the back to see if that gives a better result but, otherwise, I will simply omit them.  I donít think it will detract from the overall effect.

To cure my train-running withdrawal symptoms, I had a go at running three trains at once.  The operational timetable I have drawn up requires three trains to be operated simultaneously for each part of each subsection of the timetable.  Well, I did have fun, if thatís the right word for it.  Unfortunately, I havenít yet printed out the timetable, so I just used my instinct about when to start and stop each train.  I found it quite difficult to synchronise my actions, particularly as there were some running problems.  I persevered with the snagging but I was running two of the most graunchy locos, the Grange and the 2-6-4T.  The branch train joined in with a couple of derailments, which had never happened before, so it was out with the mini drill and the track pins.  In the end, I almost managed a three train run, but perhaps I ought to give up running for a bit and concentrate on the buildings after all.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 04, 2017, 08:25:08 pm
After yesterdayís experience with trying to run three trains at a time I have come to a decision.  It is probably not practical to run three trains simultaneously with my present controller, a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance DCC2.  The problem is that there is only one cab available at a time.  So if I make an adjustment to the speed of one loco, before I can adjust the speed of another, I have to select the correct loco on the walkaround.  This in itself can lead to errors when there are only a few seconds between operations.  But to make matters worse, next to the ďLocoĒ button is the ďDouble HeadĒ button.  If this is pressed in error, instead of a new loco being selected, the current loco is assigned to a Consist and control of the loco is no longer available.  In the end, the delete button has to be pressed and held for three seconds to delete the Consist.  After that, it is then necessary to select the correct loco, by which time it is usually too late.  There is also a recall facility, but there are other locos in the recall stack and so it is still possible to make mistakes.

So a rethink of operations is called for.  In the short term, the solution seems to be to operate a revised timetable.  For each part of every sub-section of the timetable I will start the branch train, wait until it is time to decelerate it, then start the local mainline train, stopping the branch train when it arrives in the station.  I will then wait until I start the deceleration of the local train before starting the long distance train.  That way I should be able to stop the local train before it is time to decelerate the long distance train.  To do this I will use the recall stack but, before each sub-section begins, I will remove all the unwanted locos from the recall stack.  I will need to try this out, but is appears to be a possible solution.  Of course, I would really like to have all three trains running at the same time.

The long term solution will be to buy another DCC controller, but that may not be for some time.  I could, of course, buy another two walkarounds to add to my current system, but the idea of three walkarounds operated by one person seems a little over the top.  If I wait long enough itís possible that a Windows-based program will be available whereby I will be able to simply click on each loco to select it and its speed.  I will wait to see what becomes available but, in the meantime, I will persevere with my short term solution.

So what happened today?  Well I made a start and, almost, a finish to Building B of the milk depot.  I have really enjoyed using the fine tip glue applicator and the watercolour pencils.  As I assembled Building B, I reached the stage where I was about to glue on the last side of the building.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-040417195854-506202289.jpeg)

You will notice that I have removed all the floor supports.  Metcalfe suggest that they should be glued into place during the assembly, but I wanted to be able to clear the floors so that I could insert some machinery at a future date (through the doors).  Eventually, I almost completed the building and here it is (still minus the hoist and platform canopy) joined on to Building A.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-040417195851-506032251.jpeg)

It is seen here from what will be the rail side, which would normally be away from the camera.  The little platform will be joined (on the right hand side as you look at it) by a Ratio platform kit that will extend away from the milk depot.  When itís all finished Iíll post another picture.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 04, 2017, 09:48:52 pm
I will start the branch train, wait until it is time to decelerate it, then start the local mainline train, stopping the branch train when it arrives in the station.  I will then wait until I start the deceleration of the local train before starting the long distance train.  That way I should be able to stop the local train before it is time to decelerate the long distance train.

It sounds like you are having all three trains stop at the station, Laurence. Could you insert one or more non-stop expresses (passenger or freight) into the schedule to allow yourself time to sort the buttons on the controller?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Ian Bowden on April 05, 2017, 12:42:20 am
If I wait long enough itís possible that a Windows-based program will be available whereby I will be able to simply click on each loco to select it and its speed.  I will wait to see what becomes available
Gaugemaster do a PC interface for the prodigy. Code number DCC55 and costs £65,  the software can be downloaded from gaugemaster without buying the cable, it supports 2 cabs on a split screen
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 05, 2017, 06:38:06 am
Thanks for the suggestions both.  I have designed the timetable so that each subsection is divided into to two parts.  The first part involves the branch train, a local passenger and an intermediate passenger all stopping at the station to allow passengers to change trains.  The second has a non-stop freight or passenger so is not quite so bad.  However, it is still easy to get mixed up.  I will have a look at the DCC55 option, but for now, I think I'll pursue the short term option of spreading out the action a bit.  It may be that I was a bit optimistic in my original expectations.  :doh:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bealman on April 05, 2017, 06:54:35 am
I agree with the use of watercolour pencils for the corners, but I only bought a couple of them from a local art shop, not a set!

Still, they won't come in wrong, I suppose.

Good brand, too.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 05, 2017, 08:12:27 am
The buildings are looking good Laurence, good luck with the timetable/train movement headaches
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 05, 2017, 08:20:18 pm
Today I finished off the small factory, which will become the milk depot.  Before it does, I need to create some signage to the effect of ďMARTON CREAMERYĒ to affix to the side of the large building.  The hoist surrounding and canopy were quite fiddly, but I think they have turned out OK.  One lesson from this building is that the underside of card need some colour for the sake of ground level pictures.  You can see the final results of the building in this picture.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-050417184622-50668229.jpeg)

This picture was taken from the platform of the goods depot.  There is a minor imperfection in the coping stones along the top of the end of the building nearest the camera.  The card has bowed a little and will need fixing down with a spot or glue.  Also, at the join between the card platform and the Ratio platform, there is a step and I might create a ramp there.  Here is another picture from the road leading to the creamery.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-050417184633-506731009.jpeg)

Eventually there will be milk churns on the loading ramp in the yard and more on the ratio platform.  Here is another taken from the island platform.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-050417184639-506741950.jpeg)

Iíve certainly learned a lot about building card kits over the last week of so.  If I were starting again, I would omit the quoins and capping from the end of the Building A adjacent to Building B and joined them directly.  Hopefully, I will become slicker and more accurate, eradicating all the small imperfections.  After completing the creamery buildings, I started constructing the extension Ratio platform for the milk depot.

After tea this afternoon, I concentrated on running trains.  This happened because, when I packed up yesterday, I noticed some derailed wagons in the UP loops.  Then I noticed some derailed coaches and more wagons.  In fact, every train had been affected.  I think I must have exhibited a certain amount of clumsiness reaching over for the watercolour pencils, which I had stored in the centre of the loops.  So today, I thought I had better test all the trains in the UP loops and put right any derailments.  This all went well until I ran the 38XX through the DOWN loops, where the buffer beam started to scrape with the overhanging coaches of the Grange-hauled intermediate passenger train.  At first, I thought I might have to do some more track relocations in the DOWN loops, but then I consulted my spreadsheets and discovered that the 38XX only ever arrived there when the 2-6-4T-hauled local passenger was there.  This proved to be no problem, presumably because of the slightly shorter suburban coaches (57 ft long instead of 63 ft).  I then went on to check that other intermediate passenger trains which will arrive when the 38XX is stationary in the loops would not cause a problem, which proved to be the case.

My next task will be the main station building for Platform 2.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 06, 2017, 07:49:27 am
I Have a birthday coming up in a few weeks and I was asked about ideas for a present.  Back in the day, I used to have a Badger air brush, which I used with Humbrol. Is this still a good idea?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Fardap on April 06, 2017, 08:27:21 am
Hi Laurence,

I used these people when I was living in France and bought a lovely badger airbrush - like you I remembered the name from when I had my Hornby layout in the 70's.

https://www.everythingairbrush.com/ (https://www.everythingairbrush.com/)

I got
Finespray Pixie Mini Piston type Compressor
Badger 155-7 Anthem Suction Feed Airbrush Kit

Very happy with it for my level of skill and think it is essential to have a compressor, this one is small and quiet!

Steve

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on April 06, 2017, 08:46:34 am
Hi Laurence

An airbrush is one of those things (like an angle grinder) that once you have, you wonder how you ever lived without it. I've used mine for painting scenery, model buildings (painting and weathering), and track. Once I get round to weathering my rolling stock, I'll be using it for that too.

In short, I think your getting an airbrush is a terrific idea and one that you will find immensely useful now that you're getting into the scenery construction phase. Suggest to your gift giver that you need a compressor also as running an airbrush with compressed air cans can become expensive if you're using it a lot as you likely will.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Big bad John on April 06, 2017, 09:55:45 am
I got one of these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FoxHunter-AS-186-Complete-Airbrush-Kit-Compressor-With-Tank-Nail-Tatoo-Art/200600974912?rt=nc (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FoxHunter-AS-186-Complete-Airbrush-Kit-Compressor-With-Tank-Nail-Tatoo-Art/200600974912?rt=nc)

It's quiet and has a 3litre reservoir and moisture filter. The included airbrushes probably ain't the best but they have done all I need up now Inc track weathering wagon kit's etc. If I get really competent I could always invest in a better airbrush but I reckon the compressor is up to all but the most professional jobs.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 06, 2017, 09:59:48 am
Buildings are looking good, especially in that light.  Tempted to give the Metcalf kits a try having seen the results you have achieved

Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on April 06, 2017, 11:56:00 am
The buildings are looking good Laurence. I think they start to look even better when embedded in the scenery and perhaps with a bit of weathering to "dirty" them up a bit.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 06, 2017, 03:47:19 pm
That big expanse of wall on the first picture is crying out for a big but fading "ghost sign" of either former or current occupants of the building
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 06, 2017, 04:10:56 pm
That big expanse of wall on the first picture is crying out for a big but fading "ghost sign" of either former or current occupants of the building
It will have a large sign "Marton Creamery".  There will be another on the road side as well.  The sign on the prototype read "UNITED DARIES LONDON".
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 06, 2017, 07:37:13 pm
Today I completed the platform extension for the milk depot.  Once completed, I tested it with the milk train.  I set the points for the goods depot and the milk depot and ran the local goods into the goods depot and the milk train into the milk depot.  Hereís a picture of them waiting for the ďoffĒ.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-060417190705-50693388.jpeg)

And hereís another from the opposite direction.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-060417190654-50675953.jpeg)

I'm sorry about the poor focus, but I don't have any control over the depth of field.  Unfortunately, the problem of the milk tankers derailing at points reared its ugly head again.  The problem seemed to be confined to the Express Dairies tankers and appeared to be a problem with negotiating the frogs and checkrails.  This was strange, because all the wagons are ostensibly the same.  I have three United Dairies wagons, three Milk Marketing Board, four Express Dairies and two CWS.  It is difficult to understand why only the Express Dairies vehicles are affected.  In the end, I removed the centre axels of each of them and then everything worked fine.  Considering that the original prototypes were converted from two-axel to three-axel wagons to allow running at the rear of express passenger trains, I donít think this is unreasonable for a milk train.  The effect is not too bad.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-060417190743-506971466.jpeg)

In close up, you can see the axel boxes and brake gear for the centre axel, but I will stand that for the sake of good running.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-060417190733-50695922.jpeg)

Compare this with the Milk Marketing Board wagons.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-060417190743-506961243.jpeg)

Anyway, once that was put to bed, I constructed a scratch built ramp to link the milk depot card platform with the slightly higher Ratio platform.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-060417190707-506942460.jpeg)

After that, I unpacked the station building to fit onto Platform 2 and began work on it.  I have not actually assembled anything yet so it will be at least tomorrow before I can post any pictures of it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 06, 2017, 07:49:45 pm
Great progress, the trains look right at home there - Good compromise on the derailments
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Big bad John on April 06, 2017, 07:50:59 pm
I know It sounds drastic but how about filing the flanges off the centre axle at least It will still have the wheels there and I think missing flanges will be less noticeable than missing wheels.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on April 06, 2017, 08:13:20 pm


([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-060417190743-506971466.jpeg[/url])

Is the kitchen roll there so you do not have to cry over any spilt milk  :) ............

sorry!


Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Bob Tidbury on April 06, 2017, 08:25:26 pm
Innovationgame have you checked the back to backs of the center wheels that youve removed ,because it sounds to me that is the problem .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on April 06, 2017, 08:45:02 pm
Could it be to do with the length/weight of the train? Could you try altering the formation, keeping the same number of vehicles but in a different order to see if the same thing happens.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 06, 2017, 08:58:21 pm
Thanks for the suggestions.  I have put the wheels in a safe place and when I have more time I will investigate to see if there is any way to get the wagons to run over points without derailing.  For the moment, I am happy to live with four-wheeled Express Dairies tankers.  I'm never happy with this sort of compromise, but there are more pressing things to do in the short term.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 07, 2017, 06:30:16 am
Hi Laurence,

I used these people when I was living in France and bought a lovely badger airbrush - like you I remembered the name from when I had my Hornby layout in the 70's.

[url]https://www.everythingairbrush.com/[/url] ([url]https://www.everythingairbrush.com/[/url])

I got
Finespray Pixie Mini Piston type Compressor
Badger 155-7 Anthem Suction Feed Airbrush Kit

Very happy with it for my level of skill and think it is essential to have a compressor, this one is small and quiet!

Steve
I got one of these

[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FoxHunter-AS-186-Complete-Airbrush-Kit-Compressor-With-Tank-Nail-Tatoo-Art/200600974912?rt=nc[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FoxHunter-AS-186-Complete-Airbrush-Kit-Compressor-With-Tank-Nail-Tatoo-Art/200600974912?rt=nc[/url])

It's quiet and has a 3litre reservoir and moisture filter. The included airbrushes probably ain't the best but they have done all I need up now Inc track weathering wagon kit's etc. If I get really competent I could always invest in a better airbrush but I reckon the compressor is up to all but the most professional jobs.
Thanks for the suggestions both.  The birthday present will be the the kit suggested by BBJ.  It looks like good value just for the compressor.  If the airbrushes are not up to it, I will buy myself a Badger 155-7 Anthem Suction Feed Airbrush Kit.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 07, 2017, 07:53:55 pm
Today, I did some work in the garden.  I planted the salad crop, lettuce, beetroot and baby turnips.  The radishes are already in.  Then I dug up some horseradish, scrubbed it and chopped it up in the food processor.  Actually, it completely destroyed the food processor, which has had some broken parts for several months.  So I finished it in the liquidiser and order spares for the food processor.  After that, it was down to the Train Shed.

I spent the whole of today constructing the station building(s).  Although there is only one building, Metcalf describe it as Buildings A, B and C plus the Gents lavatory.  Hereís the first, Building A, with all its walls and doors in place, but not its bay window or roof.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-070417182519-50727913.jpeg)

I continued to beaver away for the rest of the day (with a few breaks for more mundane tasks) and finished with the buildings almost complete.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-070417182512-507191856.jpeg)

Both pictures are taken with the buildings on Platform 2 in their approximate final position.  I still have to add the bay windows, canopy valances, support brackets, chimneys, etc, but by tomorrow, I hope it will be complete.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 07, 2017, 08:23:09 pm
That's looking good, Laurence.
Be careful to avoid the 'building floating on the platform' look. It's horribly difficult to sink the building in a little but is always too obvious to have 'weeds' growing all the way round.
Maybe some folks can suggest ways of accomplishing this.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 08, 2017, 10:43:11 am
That's looking good, Laurence.
Be careful to avoid the 'building floating on the platform' look. It's horribly difficult to sink the building in a little but is always too obvious to have 'weeds' growing all the way round.
Maybe some folks can suggest ways of accomplishing this.
I notice that the station building in Elvinley also has a small gap between its base and the platform, so it's not an uncommon problem.  I have a few possibilities to overcome this.  I could add some Metcalfe tarmac around the building, but that would then be above the existing platform level or I could just plug the gaps as "foundations".  My most likely course is to build a platform extension into the car park at a slightly lower level, to house the building and build it up around the base of the building.  That still leaves me with a problem with the shelter that I will build on the island platform and also the footbridge.  I will work on a solution over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: MrDobilina on April 08, 2017, 11:17:34 am
That's looking good, Laurence.
Be careful to avoid the 'building floating on the platform' look. It's horribly difficult to sink the building in a little but is always too obvious to have 'weeds' growing all the way round.
Maybe some folks can suggest ways of accomplishing this.
I notice that the station building in Elvinley also has a small gap between its base and the platform, so it's not an uncommon problem.  I have a few possibilities to overcome this.  I could add some Metcalfe tarmac around the building, but that would then be above the existing platform level or I could just plug the gaps as "foundations".  My most likely course is to build a platform extension into the car park at a slightly lower level, to house the building and build it up around the base of the building.  That still leaves me with a problem with the shelter that I will build on the island platform and also the footbridge.  I will work on a solution over the next few weeks.

What's the platform itself made out of? Could you cut out a section in the platform top and chisel down or create a support a couple mm lower than the platform top at present? Then sit the station building in the hole and filler the gap between platform and station
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 08, 2017, 11:50:23 am
What's the platform itself made out of? Could you cut out a section in the platform top and chisel down or create a support a couple mm lower than the platform top at present? Then sit the station building in the hole and filler the gap between platform and station
  It's a Ratio plastic kit.  It's certainly an idea and I'll consider which is the best option.  Thanks for the suggestion.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 08, 2017, 07:23:27 pm
It was a beautiful day today, so not too much time was spent in the Train Shed.  However, I managed to finish all the fiddly bits of the station building.  Here you can see a picture of it from Platform 2.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-080417182051-507451369.jpeg)

The base of the gentlemenís toilet is a little too high, but we have already talked about that.  The next picture is taken from the bottom of the signal box steps (the signal box has yet to be built, but we can use our imagination).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-080417182034-507281073.jpeg)

The next one is taken from the station yard, looking at the end with the toilet again.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-080417182042-507431426.jpeg)

It shows the wheelchair access to the station.  The stairs and ramp are too low for the Ratio platform, but I have added a card base to lift it to the correct level.  When I come to install it permanently, I will build up the station yard a little on that side to be level with the bottom of the ramp.  The final picture is from the other end of the station yard and shows the steps up to the station.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-080417182045-50744211.jpeg)

When everything is installed, there will be a fence to prevent direct access to the platform without passing through the station building.  I have still to colour the edges of the capping stones at the tops of the walls but, apart from that, the station building is now complete.  The next job will be the island platform shelter.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 08, 2017, 08:58:54 pm
I would imagine your platforms will be slightly low against carriages as you have underlay beneath the track and none under the platforms, so it surprises me a little the ramp/steps have had to be built up to the platform level :hmmm:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 09, 2017, 06:37:11 am
I would imagine your platforms will be slightly low against carriages as you have underlay beneath the track and none under the platforms, so it surprises me a little the ramp/steps have had to be built up to the platform level :hmmm:
I think the platform height looks OK, so maybe Ratio have allowed for the underlay, which makes the Metcalfe platform a little low.  All three Metcalfe platforms are lower than the Ratio ones.  I haven't bothered with the one inside te goods shed because it doesn't connect directly to the Ratio goods depot platform, but I had to add a ramp to the milk factory platform to connect with the Ratio milk depot platform.  Perhaps I need to add some underlay beneath the two depots and the station access ramp/steps.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-230317184749-500721970.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Jimbo on April 09, 2017, 07:44:42 am
I think the Ratio platform height looks just about right against the coach, if you had underlay under the platform I reckon it would be far too high above the running board on the coach, perhaps Ratio have allowed for underlay with the track as you say  :hmmm:, keep up the good work Laurence, I admire your persistence with the 'snags' you come across occasionally, I have that same station building kit and am looking forward to building it! Watching with interest,

Best wishes.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 09, 2017, 09:11:23 am
The station is coming along a treat, platform height looks very good to my eye.  Do the kits allow for the open doors or is that something you have improvised on?  I have done the same with the kits I am building for the distillery, but not so easy on plastic kits!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 09, 2017, 09:22:21 am
The station is coming along a treat, platform height looks very good to my eye.  Do the kits allow for the open doors or is that something you have improvised on?  I have done the same with the kits I am building for the distillery, but not so easy on plastic kits!
The doors are ready cut through.  It's up to you whether or not you open them.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on April 09, 2017, 09:48:56 am
You're making excellent and fast progress with the station, Lawrence. Before it is too late though, I would advise considering building up the station entrance roadway area to just below the station entrance and then adding paving as very few railway stations in real life show the platform edging with a drop to track level. Then there would be no need for steps or ramps to access the station entrance. You can then add a bus stop for integrated public transport close by! 8-)

To prevent any gap showing around the base of the station buildings at platform level, a common solution is to sink the slightly extended walls of the building into the platform or add the platform covering around the buildings (which is what I plan to do) using your platform slab pattern glued onto thin card. Unfortunately, one platform of Cant Cove station is already fixed into place (for various reasons) so the platform surfacing and buildings will have to be assembled, first, then fixed into place as a unit. (A job for the summer as the buildings will need to be scratch-built to match the NCR prototype.)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 09, 2017, 10:29:45 am
I would imagine your platforms will be slightly low against carriages as you have underlay beneath the track and none under the platforms, so it surprises me a little the ramp/steps have had to be built up to the platform level :hmmm:

I think the platform height looks OK, so maybe Ratio have allowed for the underlay, which makes the Metcalfe platform a little low.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-230317184749-500721970.jpeg[/url])


That looks perfectly good to me, Laurence, but I'm really not sure Ratio have been that 'clever' as not everyone puts underlay under their track :hmmm:
I have seen folks comment about the differing 'scale' of Ratio and Metcalfe before, though.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 09, 2017, 11:51:51 am
You're making excellent and fast progress with the station, Lawrence. Before it is too late though, I would advise considering building up the station entrance roadway area to just below the station entrance and then adding paving as very few railway stations in real life show the platform edging with a drop to track level. Then there would be no need for steps or ramps to access the station entrance. You can then add a bus stop for integrated public transport close by! 8-)
My original plan was to build up the station yard and continue sloping the background upwards to the left (seen from the station) to reach the level of the road bridge over the lines.  However, I couldn't resist building the steps, which gives me an alternative option (although I've not through this through yet).  The steps are a good interim solution until I get round to the station yard.


To prevent any gap showing around the base of the station buildings at platform level, a common solution is to sink the slightly extended walls of the building into the platform or add the platform covering around the buildings (which is what I plan to do) using your platform slab pattern glued onto thin card. Unfortunately, one platform of Cant Cove station is already fixed into place (for various reasons) so the platform surfacing and buildings will have to be assembled, first, then fixed into place as a unit. (A job for the summer as the buildings will need to be scratch-built to match the NCR prototype.)
I have one or two options along the lines you are suggesting, although I could move the station building right off the platform and into the yard.  But I will still have the same problem with the island platform waiting rooms and the footbridge.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 09, 2017, 08:40:13 pm
Today was a beautiful day, warm and sunny and not conducive to spending a lot of time indoors.  So we had a good walk and spent a lot of time in the garden.  However, I did get a little time in the Train Shed.  I managed to complete the finishing touches to the main station building and, eventually, started on the island platform waiting rooms.  Hereís a picture of my progress so far.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-090417183151-507621006.jpeg)

I have taken this with it located in its approximate final position.  You can see the main station building in the background, over on Platform 2.  I notice from the photograph that the bottoms of the two front walls need re-seating down onto the base.  This was not obvious by sight when constructing the model, so Iím pleased that I was able to look at the photo, which shows the blemish.  I hope that, tomorrow, I will be able to free the front walls from the base and reseat them correctly.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 10, 2017, 06:57:05 pm
Today was another busy day in the garden, after table tennis this morning.  I have prepared the bean bed and erected all the bean sticks, ready for the plants.  However, I guess the main focus of this post should be the Train Shed.  I had a look at the waiting rooms, after yesterdayís picture, but they were not as bad as the photograph implied.  The main reason was that the picture was taken from rail level and over-emphasis the effect.  I made some slight adjustments but, otherwise, I am happy with the outcome.  Today, I completed the island platform waiting rooms and positioned the building on the platform.  Here is a picture of it, together with the main station building, take from an upstairs bedroom at the other side of the railway.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-100417175244-50789584.jpeg)

Hereís a view looking along the platform in the UP direction.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-100417175228-507862314.jpeg)

Another one here is from the DOWN direction.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-100417175233-507871720.jpeg)

In this picture, you can see that one set of coping stones have lifted on the main station building, so I will need to correct that tomorrow.  The final picture is taken from the Oxford Street Bridge. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-100417175242-50788351.jpeg)

The errant coping stones on the main station building are very obvious in this shot, so I really need to correct this.  When I had completed the waiting rooms, I opened the footbridge pack and laid out all the components, but I have yet to start work on it.  I am using the Metcalfe buildings as a quick and dirty way of getting the scenery started.  In a year or two I may gradually replace them with custom scratch built models. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on April 10, 2017, 08:36:23 pm
Looks good Laurence and will look even better when you add things such as station running in boards, lamp posts, trolleys, weighing machines, chocolate machines, seats etc etc.......not forgetting the little people.
That will all make the buildings look less stark.
Maybe some pots with shrubs or flowers as well?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Skyline2uk on April 10, 2017, 09:01:28 pm
Quote
Maybe some pots with shrubs or flowers as well?

Fully agree with this, flower beds are a great way to lift stations and other lineside buildings.

I have used them on my layout thread if you have a root through 😀

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 11, 2017, 08:46:35 am
Coming along nicely, I fancy a few of us will start to see our modelling time diminish as the summer days & nights come around!

Sadly, the current (and for the past 30 years) Gleneagles is exactly the scenario you have, the carpark & bus stop are now where the Crieff line branched off, so the station is accessed via steps where the old trackbed would have been, they have kept all the old platform edging
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 11, 2017, 08:49:43 pm
Today was something of a first.  I began constructing the footbridge and, surprise, surprise, I finished the footbridge.  I have to admit that it was probably the simplest kit I had built.  But here are some pictures.  The first is of the footbridge nearing completion.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-110417181833-5080674.jpeg)

The second is a general view of the passenger station buildings, including the footbridge.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-110417181845-508121754.jpeg)

The next is a view of the passenger station buildings looking in the UP direction, with the footbridge in the foreground.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-110417181851-50813444.jpeg)

Hereís a side-on view from on high.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-110417181903-50815669.jpeg)

The final picture is a view of all the station buildings from the DOWN end of the station, with the milk depot and goods depot in the foreground.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-110417181901-508142348.jpeg)

Iím not convinced that the footbridge is entirely in keeping with the layout but, after all, this is supposed to be a quick and dirty attempt at getting some buildings on the layout in a short space of time.  The next job will be the signal box and hut to be placed between the branch line and the UP main at the UP end of the island platform.  Again, itís probably not the best model but, eventually, I may have to scratch build the ideal models.

Once the signal box is complete, I have a number of options.  I would like to go on to complete the cottages, houses and shop/pub, but there are other things to consider.  First, I would like to start landscaping to include a gradient for the road to reach the London Road Bridge across the line, giving access to the milk depot.  Also, I would like to think about ballasting.  But before that, I need to go over the track again and insert rail joiners at the board joins and, possibly, replace some split sections of track with single lengths.  Ideally, I would like to re-lay the S-shaped parts of the hidden loops with new track using curved points, but that may be something for an ideal setup in the future.  I can probably manage for now with some additional readjustments at rail joints.  So, after the signal box, there may be a few surprises.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on April 11, 2017, 08:55:35 pm
The buildings look very good, Lawrence. Before ballasting I would strongly advise ensuring that all track, joiners, and connecting wires are as good as you can make them. (At some stage, I will need to replace a point damaged in situ, after ballasting, and that will involve removing a LOT of carefully laid ballast. 8-( )
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 12, 2017, 08:04:05 pm
I didnít have much time in the Train Shed today, but I did manage to complete the signal box.  Hereís a picture of it under construction.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-120417183053-50831964.jpeg)

Hereís a picture of it in situ.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-120417183039-508262241.jpeg)

The stairs were rather fiddly.  It was not the construction that was the real problem, but attaching them to the building once completed.  I used my Optivisor for the steps and attachment, which was a great help.  Here is a picture of the signal box in close-up.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-120417183056-50832353.jpeg)

I have yet to start the platelayersí hut and the lamp hut that come with the kit, not to mention the small signal box.  I will use the two huts, but I donít, at present, anticipate using the small signal box.  However, itís probably worth building it while I have the kit to hand and keeping it in reserve in case a use for it emerges in future.

Although the buildings are somewhat different to those of the original prototype, I think they will certainly do for now for Marton Hinmarche, given the topographical differences between the original and the model.  In case you would like to see the original, hereís a link.

http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moreton_marsh.htm (http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moreton_marsh.htm)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 13, 2017, 08:25:03 pm
I have finished all the buildings in the signal box kit: the small signal box, the platelayersí hut and the lamp hut.  The construction of the small signal box was rather like that of the large signal box but less complicated.  Hereís a picture of it under construction.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-130417191820-508681378.jpeg)

However, it was more fiddly in places, especially the steps.  But, in the end, I managed to complete it satisfactorily.  Then there was the platelayersí hut, which was less complicated than the small signal box.  I almost forgot the windows, because they are affixed directly to the structure rather than to internal window frames.  I remembered just in time and managed to remove the roof to insert the windows.  The lamp hut was even less complicated, but the curved roof was a bit of a fiddle to hold in place while the glue set.  Here are all three completed.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-130417191814-508672332.jpeg)

I have decided that the platelayersí hut will be placed next to the (large) signal box and, for the moment, I have assigned the small signal box to the goods yard.  I donít really know what to do with it, but it can stay there until I come up with an inspirational solution.  The lamp hut could be placed at the opposite end of the station to the signal box but, for the moment, I have also placed that in the goods yard.  Hereís a picture showing the platelayersí hut from Platform 2.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-130417191811-50863185.jpeg)

I must do something about the uneven levels on Platform 2.  I have decided that my next scenic job will be raising the level from the station yard up to the London Road Bridge and installing the bridge.  However, before that, I would like to complete the ballasting.  But even before that. I need to ensure that all the track is working OK and, if necessary, replace some of the ďSĒ shaped loop sections by substituting curved points.  To that end, I am going to concentrate on running-in, timing and snagging, particularly around the loops.  I intend to add rail joiners across the board joins once I am sure there will be no further need to lift boards.  When I am satisfied with the running, I will then start ballasting.  At least the running sessions will give me a chance to post some videos, both good and bad.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 14, 2017, 08:18:17 am
Nice set of buildings - making great progress - look forward to seeing your ballasting
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 14, 2017, 08:32:23 pm
Today was a running-in and snagging day.  I intended to start with the intermediate passenger trains, Loco 1 (Dapol 6837 Forthampton Grange), Loco 4 (Dapol B17 61664 Liverpool), Loco 6 (Dapol 7821 Ditcheat Manor) and Loco 9 (Graham Farish Jubilee 45572 Eire), but first of all I had to move Loco 12 (Graham Farish 4MT Standard 2-6-4T 80119) out of the loops used by the intermediate passengers.  The reason that it was there is that it alternates with each in turn during the timetable cycle.  80119 proved to be a real handful.  It had never been any trouble before, apart from occasionally stalling at low speed during deceleration within the loops.  But today it was a case of stop, push, stop, push, almost all the way round.  I even gave it an extra circuit to see if it would improve, without success.  In the end, I parked it in UP loop Track 7.  The only thing I can think of is that it hadnít been run for a couple of weeks and there have been some coldish nights.

Anyway, once that was parked out of the way, I needed to move all but one to platforms to release all the loop tracks for testing.  I moved Liverpool to the milk platform.  It performed like a dream.  Then I moved Eire to the branch platform, again with a smooth run.  Ditcheat Manor also gave no trouble moving to the goods platform.  So now I was clear to run in and test Forthampton Grange (hitherto referred to as the graunchy Grange).  Actually, it began by performing quite well, but it identified a snag at a board join.  The problem was a slight step up of the right hand rail.  It was now a case of lifting track and fitting rail joiners or trying to correct the level using track pins.  In the end, the track pins did the trick.  The next problem was a reversion to stop-push-stop in the loops.  I cleaned the track and that helped.  I ran it for quite a while without a break and then began to stop it in the loops and at the station.  It was mainly OK, although there seems to be a slight problem with premature stopping at the UP platform (Platform 3).  I think there is a slight level change between rail ends, despite the joiners.  I tried a needle file and that improved the position a little, but I am not entirely satisfied with the outcome.  Then it was back to more running in.  I made some videos of the running in.  Hereís one of Forthampton Grange running through Platform 3.



And hereís another of the reverse run.



Finally, I made one from the position of the London Road Bridge, with the camera in a fixed position.



I also thought it might be a good idea to take a couple of still pictures of the station with some trains stopped at platforms.  Hereís one taken from London Road Bridge.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-140417180553-50877881.jpeg)

And the final one is a general view of the station taken from a light aircraft.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-140417180547-50869930.jpeg)

It will be interesting to see how Forthampton Grange runs tomorrow after a night of inactivity.  As I was closing up, I noticed what appeared to be a severed traction tyre next to Ditcheat Manor and, indeed, it proved to be the case.  I lifted Ditcheat Manor and inspected the drivers, only to find that the other traction tyre was also severed.  This is strange since it had hardly been run since I fitted the new tyres.  I will have to see if I can get some more appropriate traction tyres.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Rabbitaway on April 14, 2017, 11:01:23 pm
Laurence

Brilliant to see the trains running

Thanks for the videos

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 15, 2017, 05:25:00 am
You are doing a brilliant job Laurence, the videos are showing some brilliant locoís and their respective trains. I am so impressed with your layout itís great seeing getting better and better by the day/weeks.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 15, 2017, 06:35:21 am
We have family visitors over Easter, so I'll not get too much done.  After Easter, I must get myself a good quality video camera so I can show some better quality pictures.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 15, 2017, 06:42:52 am
I donít know what you have been using or canít remember Laurence if you have said what you are, but have you thought of getting one of those Bridge cameraís they are perfect for taking brilliant photoís and also they do really fantastic videos. I have a Nikon Coolpix P610 ( other makes available ) and i find it really good for videos has well has really brilliant photoís.

Enjoy your Easter visitors Laurence.                Happy Modelling.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 15, 2017, 08:22:06 am
Likewise my Canon Powershot SX510HS bridge camera which can take HD vids and super HD vids.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 15, 2017, 09:00:39 am
I have my eye on a Sony HDR-CX405 HD Camcorder and tripod.  What do you think?  It should give me the ability film train operating sequences.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 15, 2017, 02:52:31 pm
I tend to take more stills than movies so the ability of my camera to perform a few 'tricks' such as sepia, b & w, soft spot and fisheye pics alongside movies suits me down to the ground.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 15, 2017, 03:24:54 pm
I am more into stills too, mainly because it is nigh on impossible to download or view video's at work (something to do with them not wanting people wasting their time)  :) 

I use a Panasonic Lumix which also takes decent video's... I intend to try and take some in the coming weeks.

Layout is looking great Laurence
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 16, 2017, 09:09:08 am
I have my eye on a Sony HDR-CX405 HD Camcorder and tripod.  What do you think?  It should give me the ability film train operating sequences.

While i agree that a dedicated camcorder can provide excellent videos Laurence most people nowadays go for still cameras with the ability so take really great videos, my advice such has it is, is to look at buying a bridge camera or if funds can permit a DSLR, there are some really good offers going on at the moment and i would look at buying one of the these, either a bridge or a DSLR. You can even get some great tripods at the moment too.

A bit of time mate spent researching has most things Laurence can same you some money and maybe even have some money leftover to get some thing for your layout.    Happy Modelling Laurence.      :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 16, 2017, 09:53:51 am
If buying a camcorder I think one of the most important features has to be how good/simple the results can be edited on your computer and then posted elsewhere via t'internet.
I bought a Sony one in the early days of mini discs as opposed to tapes, and it has no computer interface capability whatsoever so I am left with watching the unedited results either on a laptop or my DVD player.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 16, 2017, 11:15:41 am
Thanks for the advice about cameras everyone.  It might be a good idea if I pop in to Jessops some time and get some advice about the various products they sell.

I didnít get much time in the Train Shed yesterday because our visitors arrived.  At least they came by train so I I got to go to the station to meet them off the express from Kings Cross.  I did manage a little running before hand, but Forthampton Grange was back to its cold performance again, even after quite a bit of running in the previous day.  I swapped it for the B17 which ran like an absolute dream, so I parked it and brought out Eire, which also ran very well.  Itís strange that some locos have problems which show all the symptoms of dirty track, stopping repeatedly in the same place, while others negotiate the same stretch of track without so much as a hiccup.  Itís also strange that after several circuits of running, the problem almost disappears, but next morning is just as bad again.  I assume the problem is the pickups. 

I hope to get a little more time in the Train Shed today, with a bit of luck.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 16, 2017, 05:25:29 pm
I started testing Forthampton Grange again this morning and, to my surprise, it actually worked very well.  It needed the occasional prod to get it started but, once running, it behaved normally.  There was the odd hiccup exiting the loops, but its performance was perfectly acceptable.  I was able to get timings for it, which meant I could put it to bed, at least for the moment.  I have re-run the B17 to record its coasting setting and then re-checked Eire and Ditcheat Manor for the same reason.  I also checked and recorded the deceleration time of the two express passenger trains, Royal Ulster Rifleman and Cranmore Hall.

The next job was to check and calibrate the 38XX.  I have still no solution to the waving pony wheels but, otherwise, it ran well on its assigned tracks.  Calibration and timing completed the job.  I now began work on the 9F.  I had not recorded any setting for it, so I had to start from scratch.  While checking the settings, its tender regularly derailed at a particular set of points.  I have reported before how the tender appeared to rock and roll along the track and that seemed to be associated with the derailments.  In the end, I lifted the 9F and examined the tender wheels.  I was not surprised to find that the wheels on the middle axle were not running parallel to one another.  With difficulty, I removed the axle and it appeared that the insulated sleeve joining the two wheels has been damaged, as though squeezed by a pair of pliers. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/3091-160417165517-509071572.jpeg)

I decided to test my theory by running it without the middle axle and the 9F then ran much more smoothly, without any rocking and rolling.  So I was successfully able to calibrate it and record the settings and timings.  Hereís a video of it during one of its setting up runs.



Next up will be the dreaded 2-6-4T, which may take some time to run in and calibrate.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on April 16, 2017, 09:02:02 pm
If buying a camcorder I think one of the most important features has to be how good/simple the results can be edited on your computer and then posted elsewhere via t'internet.
I bought a Sony one in the early days of mini discs as opposed to tapes, and it has no computer interface capability whatsoever so I am left with watching the unedited results either on a laptop or my DVD player.

Copy the videos onto the computer's hard disc. You should be able to edit them then.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on April 16, 2017, 09:11:47 pm
Laurence, Regarding the patchy running of your locomotives.
I assume that you are cleaning the track regularly? And, do you have a wheel cleaner for the locomotives themselves?
I find that the answer to smooth running is to keep everything clean. It is surprising, even after an hour or two of running, how dirty the track becomes. Just try rubbing a thin bit of card along the track and it will be black.
Just a thought. Martin
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 16, 2017, 10:23:40 pm
I assume that you are cleaning the track regularly? And, do you have a wheel cleaner for the locomotives themselves?
Hi Martin.  I use Peco track cleaning/burnishing rubbers and they work very well.  But I don't have a wheel cleaner.  However, the odd thing is that the problem of the Grange now seems to have largely gone away.  It might be temperature dependent.  I don't think the track itself is a problem because most locos run without a hitch.  I'll see how the 2-6-4T goes after a lot of running in.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 17, 2017, 04:19:49 am
Those wheel cleaners are brilliant Laurence, i have one of the Woodland Scenics and it's great.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 17, 2017, 04:21:33 am
If buying a camcorder I think one of the most important features has to be how good/simple the results can be edited on your computer and then posted elsewhere via t'internet.
I bought a Sony one in the early days of mini discs as opposed to tapes, and it has no computer interface capability whatsoever so I am left with watching the unedited results either on a laptop or my DVD player.

Copy the videos onto the computer's hard disc. You should be able to edit them then.

Tried that and downloaded Nero editing suite but just couldn't get on with it.
Sorry, Laurence :-[
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 17, 2017, 08:29:01 am
Those wheel cleaners are brilliant Laurence, i have one of the Woodland Scenics and it's great.    :thumbsup:
I've ordered the Woodland Scenics wheel cleaner and track cleaner with spare pads.  I also ordered a B set to run on the branch and release the suburban coaches for main line running.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on April 17, 2017, 09:11:04 am
Those wheel cleaners are brilliant Laurence, i have one of the Woodland Scenics and it's great.    :thumbsup:
I've ordered the Woodland Scenics wheel cleaner and track cleaner with spare pads.  I also ordered a B set to run on the branch and release the suburban coaches for main line running.
The track cleaner is very good Laurence. I think it will help.
I have always felt that temperature has an effect on railway operation, there have been discussions on this forum before but no real conclusions. My own railways always seem to be a bit "hesitant" when there has been a reasonably marked temperature swing. After all, it is very small electrical components that we are dealing with.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 17, 2017, 11:02:54 am
I've spoken to many an exhibitor at model railway shows and they have often said they set up on a Friday night but first thing Saturday morning there are always gremlins owing to the temperature difference in the hall(s). Same thing can happen over the Saturday night into Sunday morning.. If push came to shove I'd take any susceptible locos into the house and only run them when the shed has warmed up a bit.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Skyline2uk on April 17, 2017, 11:12:18 am
I've spoken to many an exhibitor at model railway shows and they have often said they set up on a Friday night but first thing Saturday morning there are always gremlins owing to the temperature difference in the hall(s). Same thing can happen over the Saturday night into Sunday morning.. If push came to shove I'd take any susceptible locos into the house and only run them when the shed has warmed up a bit.

I have experienced this first hand, locos often need "warming up".

Most memorable for me was the Eurostar sets for Choats Lane which were effectively in "cold soak" on the Friday night. It took most of the Saturday morning to get them back to their normal excellent self.

It may be worth considering bringing the locos into the house over night.

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 17, 2017, 11:19:03 am
I've just been to Jessops to talk about cameras.  They showed me compacts and a bridge camera and what they can do.  The offer a one hour camera training course for £40.  Considering the greatly improved versatility of these modern cameras (my present one is a 2002 Olympus C-300) it might be worth the expense.  I'll think about it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 17, 2017, 06:17:32 pm
Most of today was spent running the 2-6-4T.  It started off lamentably, but did improve with a lot of running and a certain amount of track cleaning.  I still canít get to grips with the fact that some locos, the 2-6-4T being the prime example, stutter or stop at the same place time after time while most of the others pass over the spot without so much as a murmur.  However, I persevered and eventually things became smooth enough to start calibration.  I did have some fun (if thatís the right word) when, on a couple of occasions the loco suddenly started to career around the track at breakneck speed.  On the first occasion I was initially completely baffled.  I tried to program CV66, which is responsible for the top speed, but to no effect.  In the end I tried CV25, which is responsible for speed curve selection, still without success.  So I decided that the decoder had forgotten that it was supposed to respond to the speed curve and reprogrammed CV29 to 22.  Success!  So the second time it happened, I was able to quickly identify the problem and correct it.  Itís slightly worrying that the decoder managed to reprogram one of its CV values.  This may be allied to the occasional click from a point when the Seep must be trying to switch without a command.  It must be something to do with random noise, possibly generated by dirty track or wheels.  I hope the cleaning kit I have ordered will reduce this effect.

Anyway, I eventually managed to calibrate the loco satisfactorily and record the timings for the various runs (UP out, UP in, DOWN out and DOWN in).  There is still the occasional hiccup, but the 2-6-4T is much better than it was before.  I will have to re-test it in the morning to see if the cure is permanent.  Forthampton Grange certainly maintained its improvement, possibly because of running in.

The 2-6-4T hauls the longer of the two mainline suburban trains.  The other is hauled, currently, by the 57XX.  Eventually, it should be replaced by the prairie that I have on pre-order.  You can see the two of them here, waiting in the UP loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-170417173510-5098047.jpeg)

Eventually, I will need to get to grips with the couplings on the Farish suburban coaches, because the spacing between them is far too large.  The longer suburban train will run in Part A of each operational sub-cycle, while the other will run in Part B whenever there are no local freight movements.  Once I had finished with the 2-6-4T, I turned my attention to the 57XX.  It ran like a dream, apart from a couple of instances when it was cold and had to be given a prod to get it going.  The calibration was pretty straightforward, apart from the deceleration, which required quite a few iterations to get it right.  Each value that I try has to be tested in four places on the layout, once at each station stop (UP and DOWN) and once in each set of loops.  In the end, by the time I had finalised the deceleration, there was insufficient time to record the timings, so that will have to wait until tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 18, 2017, 07:01:16 am
I've just been to Jessops to talk about cameras.  They showed me compacts and a bridge camera and what they can do.  The offer a one hour camera training course for £40.  Considering the greatly improved versatility of these modern cameras (my present one is a 2002 Olympus C-300) it might be worth the expense.  I'll think about it.

Hi Laurence, great to see you are taking the plunge and looking at compacts and bridge cameraís, i personally would hold off on the £40 though until you get a camera and use it for awhile, you may find them so easy to use that you may not need to use £40 for that course and use it for some kit on your layout instead.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: njee20 on April 18, 2017, 07:59:47 am
Out of interest, given you seem to be operating steam era why the concrete sleeper track? It's more expensive, and surely it's unprototypical?
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 18, 2017, 08:10:05 am
Out of interest, given you seem to be operating steam era why the concrete sleeper track? It's more expensive, and surely it's unprototypical?
It was a mistake.  But I figured that I could use it on the main line away from the station because concrete track was starting to be laid on main lines by the late 50s, which is the era modelled.  So I ordered a pack of wooden sleeper track to use in the station and on the branch, which was just enough.  The track in the loops will be hidden.  In the end, it cost me a few pounds more than if I had ordered the wooden sleepers.  You live and learn. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Chris in Prague on April 18, 2017, 08:52:01 am
Concrete sleepers were being used on BR as early as the 1950s, so are definitely appropriate for steam era layouts although not for sidings and minor and lightly-used goods only lines. For example, BR WR, in 1963, was laying new 109lb/yd flat bottom rail on pre-stressed concrete sleepers on ex-SR lines.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Webbo on April 18, 2017, 09:14:44 am
Laurence, carrying on with the camera stuff.

I agree with Steamie that you should not discount compacts and bridge cameras as nowadays these are enormously capable. But, I suggest you think about what you want to use your camera for before deciding on a type or even a model. I have a bridge camera which is a few years old now. It takes HD has a 20x optical zoom, macro capability, a wide lens (good in low light) and for most applications can take fine photos and movies (subject to the limitations of the operator. My movie posts on my Deadwood thread were NOT taken with the HD facility). However, a potential limitation is that even though I can zoom the lens while movie making, the auto focus doesn't keep up the way I would like it. For example, if I'm videoing a model train coming towards me and I zoom out when it gets close, the camera hunts around for focus. I don't consider myself to be on top of my camera and maybe I can fix this issue after closer reading of the manual. (Resort to fixed focus?)

So, even though my camera is capable for most situations, it has its limitations. Maybe a camcorder would do better. The point is that you need to decide what sorts of photos/videos you would like to make and then decide on a camera to buy. All camera types have their pluses and minuses.

But, whatever you buy, get yourself a camera that can be mounted on a tripod.

Webbo
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: njee20 on April 18, 2017, 10:15:46 am
Concrete sleepers were being used on BR as early as the 1950s, so are definitely appropriate for steam era layouts although not for sidings and minor and lightly-used goods only lines. For example, BR WR, in 1963, was laying new 109lb/yd flat bottom rail on pre-stressed concrete sleepers on ex-SR lines.

Didn't realise it was being used that early, it was more the fact it was being used in the storage yard, and a purchasing mistake makes total sense :-)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 18, 2017, 08:02:29 pm
This afternoon was spent calibrating and timing the local goods trains, the milk train hauled by the Class 5 and the local goods hauled by the J39.  But before I could do that, I had to move a number of other trains into the correct loop tracks to free up the goods depot and milk depot.  It was interesting that the 2-6-4T played up again this morning, as did the grange in a minor way.  But it was cold, so that may well be the reason.  I also freed up the branch platform at the same time because that will be the next (and last) calibration exercise.  I had to calibrate and time the two trains in parallel because they share the same loop tracks. 

The big issue for the local goods, which also applied to the long distance heavy goods (38XX), was that the top speed was so low that it was impossible to increase the deceleration time sufficiently to allow the train to move fully into its loop tracks.  The answer, in both cases, was to set the top speed much higher than that allocated to the train and run it at a setting of 10, rather than the full speed setting of 28.  The final part of the trick is to set the acceleration time to zero and then suddenly increase the speed once the tail of the train disappears into the tunnel entrance to the loops.  The speed is then immediately reduced to zero, allowing the deceleration to bring the train to a halt at the correct position.  Using the time that the tail of the train disappears into the tunnel for reducing the speed to zero is an ideal way of using the deceleration to bring the trains (all of them) to rest in the correct place in the loops without having to watch them progress through the hidden loops, allowing the operator to concentrate on other activities on the visible part of the layout.

I did also have a little difficulty getting the milk train to run on far enough, but a small increase in top speed, within acceptable limits for such a fully fitted train, allowed me to get things right.  Hereís a short video of the two trains passing in the station.



Now the last two mainline trains have been calibrated and timed, I have only to calibrate the branch train (64XX) to complete the process.  I have decided that I really must sort out the loop tracks to ensure more reliable running.  They are pretty good now, but Iím not entirely happy with them.  I need to re-lay four points in each set of loops and, to that end, I will need to order some curved points to replace the existing medium radius points affected.  I will also have to relocate them, so that means a major refit to the loops, but I would rather get it over with now than leave it until it becomes much more difficult because of disturbing scenery and back scenes.

There is some good news about the 38XX pony truck.  I contacted DCC Supplies over the weekend and they have very generously offered to send me some new screws.  However, on a slightly downbeat note, they have no knowledge of any other similar symptoms.  I may try a thin collar to reduce the height of the pony truck.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 19, 2017, 05:50:14 am
I agree with Webbo on the cameraís Laurence, but if you just want a camcorder to do videos of your layout and you wonít be using it for anything else then yes a camcorder is the way to go, but if you also want to be taking very good quality photos has well, then a compact or bridge or can i say it a full DSLR camera if your funds can stretch that far ( mine canít unfortunately ) is even better. Itís all down to personal choice Laurence, but please keep up with your photoís and videos in the meantime, i really do enjoy seeing your updates.    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 19, 2017, 07:46:02 am
Having seen some of the modern cameras, I'm looking at going down the bridge camera or compact route.  I'll make my mind up soon.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 19, 2017, 08:11:06 am
Having seen some of the modern cameras, I'm looking at going down the bridge camera or compact route.  I'll make my mind up soon.

Take your time with them Laurence and try to get to a shop and handle them just like you would in a model shop if you were buying a controller, they are something of a purchase if you get what i mean and you want to get one that you a totally happy with.   Happy Modelling Laurence.      :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 19, 2017, 08:52:38 pm
First thing today I started calibrating the branch train hauled by the 64XX.  At first it was dreadful, but it was very cold and the branch hadnít been cleaned like the main line.  So I speeded it up to some ridiculously high speed, eliminated all acceleration and deceleration and then transferred it to the main line to run around a few times at high speed.  After a while I was able to reduce its speed to normal again and then set up its acceleration and deceleration.  Then I retransferred it to the branch to check its deceleration into the run arounds.  Everything was OK, so I left it to return later in the day to time its runs.

GOOD NEWS!  My parcel arrived today with the B Set and track/wheel cleaners.  The B Set really looked the part and I quickly replaced the suburban coaches of the branch train.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-190417201238-510631745.jpeg)

With these in tow, I was able to, eventually, time the branch train, but not before I had tried out the track cleaner and wheel cleaner.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-190417201249-51065718.jpeg)

The track cleaner was quite good, but I canít say that it was any real improvement on the Peco erasers.  However, it does have greater versatility, especially with the long handle.  Also, the various additional cleaning heads might prove to be a boon.  The wheel cleaner was much more of a problem.  First, I did not quite take in the fact that the croc clips and the positioning on existing track were not mutually compatible.  It is either one or the other.  But more important, with DCC locos, it is necessary to overwrite the programmed CV values for top speed and acceleration.  Otherwise, with dirty wheels, it is impossible to get the wheels turning.  Once that was learned, things got a little better, but the 2-6-4T didnít show much improvement after wheel cleaning.

Anyway, after wheel cleaning, I then managed to record the timings for the branch train.  Here it is standing at the branch platform (Platform 4).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-190417201248-510642229.jpeg)

Once the branch train was safely calibrated and timed, I then started to move all the trains out of the DOWN loops to make way for re-laying the tracks.  Here are the full UP loops, although some of the trains are also stored in the station.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-190417201217-51060799.jpeg)

And hereís a picture of the empty DOWN loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-190417201214-510081185.jpeg)

As you can see, the approach from the DOWN main, on the right hand side of the picture, is not a problem.  The real issue is with the exits at the other end of the loops.  The problem is that I had to move loops to allow locos such as the 9F, 38XX and Grange to negotiate them without derailing.  This will give you some idea of the resultant chaos.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-190417201227-51061856.jpeg)

So now I must decide exactly what I need to order and plan out the new loops on the baseboards.  In the meantime, I will concentrate on more buildings.  Incidentally, I have had a recurring problem with the milk depot (the Metcalfe small factory).  The canopy over the road side platform has several times collapsed because the glue along the top has given way.  The problem seems to be that the weight of the canopy is too much for the glue.  So I have inserted a couple of stanchions to support it. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-190417201231-51062498.jpeg)

I hope they will be man enough for the job.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on April 19, 2017, 09:10:55 pm
The canopy over the road side platform has several times collapsed because the glue along the top has given way.  The problem seems to be that the weight of the canopy is too much for the glue.


@Innovationgame (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3091)

Laurence, are you using UHU glue as previously mentioned? The reason I ask is that I have made the small factory kit and had no problem with the canopy - I used Roket Card Glue, as I do with all the Metcalfe kits - just a thought.  Incidentally, the  layout is coming on brilliantly, (and at a pace  :sweat:).  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 19, 2017, 09:20:34 pm
Yes. I am using the UHU glue supplied and recommended by Metcalfe.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 19, 2017, 09:52:28 pm
I also have the wheel cleaning kit and am not so impressed with it. This is a far easier/cheaper way to clean wheels and can be used for locos and rolling stock (yes - coaches and wagons get dirty wheels too)
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=913.msg7981#msg7981 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=913.msg7981#msg7981)

I dug out my 2-6-4T and at first it refused to budge. "Oh cripes" I said (or words to that effect), but after a little pushing and light oiling of the motion it stuttered into life and then got smoother and smoother until it was running a treat. However, mine is the older 4MT (372-531) and had not been run for at least 3 months.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 19, 2017, 09:57:59 pm
Yes. I am using the UHU glue supplied and recommended by Metcalfe.
I have just looked up Rocket Card Glue and I will try some next time I order from Hattons (which will be soon).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on April 19, 2017, 10:13:59 pm
Yes. I am using the UHU glue supplied and recommended by Metcalfe.
I have just looked up Rocket Card Glue and I will try some next time I order from Hattons (which will be soon).

I don't think you will be disappointed Laurence. But bear in mind, it is 'runnier' than UHU!
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on April 19, 2017, 10:16:26 pm
Yes. I am using the UHU glue supplied and recommended by Metcalfe.
I have just looked up Rocket Card Glue and I will try some next time I order from Hattons (which will be soon).

Endorse Rocket over UHU and do wonder why Metcalfe continue to recommend it.

I found you need to be a little quicker with Rocket than UHU, so perhaps practice with some offcuts just to get a handle on it.

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 20, 2017, 06:33:18 am
Hi Laurence, i have the wheel cleaner and i find great for cleaning my wheels, although they are not really that dirty,but after using it they are nice and clean. I use the IPA to clean the track and it is good stuff, but you have to be careful about the fumes, a mask is recommended, and of course it is highly inflammable so "NO SMOKING PLEASEĒ  lol.

Love seeing photoís of your layout and the locoís. I also use Rocket Card Glue and think it great, tried UHU and found it not has easy to work with.

Happy Modelling Laurence.     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 20, 2017, 07:33:01 pm
Good news!  I received a package from DCC supplies with two screws (described as a pair) for the 38XX pony truck.  Bad news!  I fitted one of them, but the pony truck remained far too high above the rails.  It could be pushed from side to side without the flanges contacting the rails.  I made a circular collar to fit between the pony truck and the main chassis from a length of 0.7mm tinned copper wire bent loosely around a pair of round nosed pliers.  This lowered the flanges below the tops of the rail, but the wheels still did not contact the rails.  I then wound the collar a little tighter so that the ends overlapped a little.  Good news!  The pony truck now runs on the rails as it should.  It appears as though there is a washer missing between the pony truck and the chassis.  Hereís a picture of the 38XX running with its pony wheels running on the rails.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-200417182031-510801163.jpeg)

But now to the main story of the day.  I took my courage in both hands and tore up the exit ends of the DOWN loops and lifted the large loop board.  I removed Point 17 and then re-screwed down the board.  Hereís a picture of the board after the first track lifting.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-200417181946-51066105.jpeg)

Then I lifted the second board and removed Points 29, 30 and 31.  Hereís a picture of the carnage when I had completed the track removal.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-200417181946-51066940.jpeg)

I have ordered eight curved points from Hattons, four each of left hand and right hand.  Once I have completed the DOWN loops I intend to do likewise with the UP loops, in that case on the entrance curves. 

While ordering from Hattons, I took the opportunity to order some Rocket Card Glue.  Iíll see how well it works.  In the meantime, I removed the two stanchions from the milk factory and await the inevitable collapse of the canopy once more.  I will then use Rocket Glue to see if that fixes the problem once and for all.  I think I will continue to use the UHU for the glazing, as this can be fiddly and it is often necessary to slide the glazing panels in and adjust them to get the window frames in the correct position.  Iím not sure whether Rocket Glue would allow sufficient time to manoeuvre them into the correct position.  I now await the points and, in the meantime, I will print out a couple of extra point plans to use for planning the new layout.  So tomorrow, I can concentrate on another card model, at least until my delivery of block paving arrives (for edging the various beds in the garden).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Skyline2uk on April 20, 2017, 07:58:54 pm
Good for you taking the plunge Laurence, now is certainly the time to do it and I suspect you won't regret making this choice.

 :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on April 20, 2017, 11:36:40 pm
Hi there Laurence, nice to see you are making progress. I too reccomend using Rocket card glue over uhu, the trouble with uhu is they have changed formula and it is not has good. I always found the old uhu a bit stringy for my liking, rocket glue is more runny but supprisingly sticky and dries fairly quickly.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on April 21, 2017, 07:48:42 am
Quite a bite of courage, reminds me of my impending point repair! Will be worth it though, hope you don't have to wait too long on the curved points
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 21, 2017, 08:40:55 am
Wow Laurence you are going to town on your layout.

I have used Deluxe Materials Glue 'ní Glaze for my windows and i can honestly say it is great stuff, no clouding and you get plenty of time to make sure you have the glaze in place.

Happy Modelling Laurence.

PS. Here is a link to the Deluxe Materials site Laurence, i think you can buy it cheaper elsewhere but this flipping memory of mine wonít tell me.

https://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/en/scale-plastics/49-glue-n-glaze-5060243900333.html (https://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/en/scale-plastics/49-glue-n-glaze-5060243900333.html)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 21, 2017, 08:51:37 am
I've just checked Hattons' price for Glue 'n' Glaze - it's £5.25.  Next time I order from them I'll get some.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 21, 2017, 07:26:43 pm
Iíve started on planning the layout of the new points and tracks from the loops.  I printed off four copies of the Peco PDF file for the points and cut them out to make templates.  In that way, I have been able to Blu-Tac them into position using short length of straight track for the alignment and checking that there is room for the Seeps by using the mounting blocks to ensure that each Seep will be clear of its neighbour.  Hereís a picture of the templates in position.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-210417191222-51118926.jpeg)

When the new points arrive, Iíll be able to fit them into position without too much trouble, after first fitting the appropriate length of straight track to connect to the throat (the facing end or exit) of the point.  I have already checked the approximate curvature and position of the curves to connect to the existing loop tracks, so that should be reasonably easy to complete, starting with the inside loop (Track 18) and working outwards.

I didnít get too much time in the Train Shed today because I had to hump building materials: Twelve 25kg bags of sand and 488 block pavers.  Thatís 1.3 tons lifted into the barrow/sack truck and 1.3 tons lifted out again after transportation to the back of the house.  I had three sessions to complete it all (Iím not getting any younger!).  However, after a cup of tea this afternoon I did get into the Train Shed again and began the preliminary work on a Metcalfe kit, the workersí cottages.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-210417191204-511062381.jpeg)

My Hattons order was despatched today, so it might arrive tomorrow or Monday, via Yodel.  Then I will get to try out the Rocket Card Glue on the latest model.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 21, 2017, 08:27:53 pm
I don't know what you put in your tea but I think I need some :hmmm:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 22, 2017, 04:50:59 am
You donít drink tea Mick.     :laugh3: :laugh3: :laugh3:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 22, 2017, 06:24:15 am
You donít drink tea Mick.     :laugh3: :laugh3: :laugh3:
Tea hee! :D
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 22, 2017, 07:35:07 pm
After yesterdayís delivery of building materials, I didnít get too much time in the Train Shed today.  But I did make a start on the cottages.  I have bought two kits and there are two pairs of cottages in each kit with two sheds for each pair of cottages.  So that makes four pairs of cottages and eight sheds.  By the time I have completed all the cottages I hope I will have got the hang of it.  After our usual walk into town to the butcherís, stopping for a cup of coffee on the way home, I spent the rest of the morning in the garden laying the block paving sets as an edging to separate the gravel from the grass (note that I donít use the term lawn). 

Good news!  Over lunch, my Hattons parcel arrived so, when I had done enough (for my old bones) in the garden, I would be able to go to the Train Shed to play.  I worked until it was time for a cup of tea (please note that I donít put anything in it, not even milk or sugar).  So then it was down to the Train Shed for a short session.  I tried out the Rocket Glue, but found it very difficult to use.  It kept turning into little liquid balls and was reluctant to stick.  I decided that the very long fine nozzle was to allow bits to be cut from the end if the glue in it set.  In the end, I reverted to UHU, which was much easier to use.  I did try the Rocket Glue again once or twice, but it was difficult to stick the thin card to the thick card and even more difficult to make edge connections.  Hereís a picture of the first pair of cottages during construction.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-220417182515-511702292.jpeg)

I have since added the porch roof.  In between times, I unpacked one of the curved points and, with a bit of work to make a very short length of straight track, fitted it into position.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-220417182455-511681583.jpeg)

Itís not fixed into position yet and I have still to add the frog dropper and mark out the position of the Seep.  But at least itís a start.  Progress is going to be a little slower at the moment with all the work to be done in the garden.  But I hope to be able to take things forward a little each day.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on April 22, 2017, 07:41:47 pm
I am sorry Laurence, but that is horrible - the tea that is  ;). The cottages look good, it is a pity you can't get on with the Roket glue. Half the time, I find it easier to put a drop on some scrap card and then use a cocktail stick to put the glue just where I want it. Anyway, keep up the good work.  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on April 22, 2017, 09:51:57 pm
Thanks for the update, Laurence.

Sorry you're not getting on with the Rocket but pleased you are happy with the kits.

Hope you find running easier once you've got the new points installed.

Take it easy with all that heavy lifting - one slab at a time!

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 23, 2017, 06:36:11 am
Take it easy with all that heavy lifting - one slab at a time!
Dave G
They're only block pavers, but I have to work on my hands and knees with three trowels, one to dig out a slot for the paver, one for sand and another to back fill with gravel.  So, after a session, I need a rest in the Train Shed!  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 23, 2017, 09:07:53 pm
After our Sunday morning walk and coffee, it was back to the block paving, so there was not much time for the Train Shed until later.  I laid less blocks than yesterday, but after I had finished, my back muscles were quite sore so I had a five minute session on the bat table.  No, itís nothing to do with Batman.  The proper name for it is an inversion table.  It starts with laying back at 45 degrees and strapping your ankles in.  Then, by moving you arms over your head, you change the balance and it tips backwards until your head is lower than your feet.  Typically you can tilt it to an angle of 30 to 60 degrees (upside down) like a bat hanging from a branch.  It gives your back muscles a nice natural stretch, which is very helpful after a lot of bending and lifting.  After that, I lay down flat on my back for a while, so that I was then able to go down to the Train shed.

I completed the first pair of workersí cottages, together with the sheds.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-230417192250-51174733.jpeg)

Actually, they are not quite complete because I have yet to add the chimney pots and window sills.  I had a more productive day with the Rocket Card Glue today, using Dannyboyís technique, but using a piece of sleeving stripped from some 1/0.7 TCW, of which I have a surfeit.  It works well in some circumstances, but in other places I stick (excuse the pun) to UHU.  Using the two together seems to be a good compromise. 

After that, I turned my attention to the loops, but I was disappointed to find that the original position of the first point was too close to the one behind so that I was unable to use my Seep template because the rear screw location was exactly beneath the rail of the straight-on track from the previous point.  So I had to cut another link section and file its ends to take rail joiners.  It was a bit touch and go because I still have to leave room for the following points without overlapping onto the large loop board. 
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: dannyboy on April 23, 2017, 10:05:27 pm
All I can say at this stage is that you must be a masochist - laying block paving, using a bat table and tea without sugar and milk   :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 24, 2017, 09:29:06 am
All I can say at this stage is that you must be a masochist - laying block paving, using a bat table and tea without sugar and milk   :goggleeyes:

I definitely can't go without my S & M.
(That's sugar and milk, of course)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Drakken on April 24, 2017, 09:36:57 am
Workers cottages came out extremely good :beers:

This might be totally a stupid thing to say but I've had problems with the Rocket Glue in colder weather in a morning when I'm off seems when the house is nice and warm it works a lot better maybe just a placebo but for me it works best in warmer temperatures.

Anyways More importantly, Tea without milk and sugar wow just wow lol  :beers:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 24, 2017, 10:59:42 am
Nice work on the cottages Laurence, the Rocket Glue i find works best on plastic kits, although i do use it on card, for that i use Glue & Glaze more and i find it works great, it is all a learning curve Laurence and you will find what works best for you.   Happy Modelling Laurence.       :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on April 24, 2017, 06:03:36 pm
Great work with the cottages Laurence.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 24, 2017, 09:25:19 pm
DISASTER!  Read on and all will become apparent.

This morning was table tennis and I made a start on the points before going.  Then, when we returned, it was raining sufficiently to put off garden work until after lunch.  So there was more work in the Train Shed.  I finished the first set of points and began work on the second.  However, before I finished the first set, I had a problem with the frog dropper.  The curved points have a different design for the link from the switch blades to the live frog, which is much more fragile.  I soldered the dropper on but, because I had to lift and replace the point a few times, the connection came away from the frog.  So I had to solder to the outside of one of the frog rails.  There is a blob of solder that reaches rain height, but I tested it OK with a wagon and it doesnít cause a problem.  I had become a bit rusty on point installation, but it was all coming back now.  I discovered that the second point could be installed with the Seep in the same position as the original, so that saved some work.

After lunch, it was still drying up outside so I allocated another hour to the Train Shed.  By the time I had finished the work on the second point, but before I glued it into place, I realised that I hadnít tested either of them.  So I switched on and tried the first.  That worked fine.  Then I tried the second, but there appeared to be a problem.  I think I must have forgotten about repeated switching and switched it one way before the Digikeijs had responded to the original signal.  Anyway, the point motor went up in smoke, which means the Digikeijs will have gone short circuit on that output.  As I said at the beginning, disaster! 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-240417210621-513041835.jpeg)

Fortunately, I have some spare Seeps and a couple of spare Digikeijs.  I changed the Seep and started work on the Digikeijs, but by then it was dry enough to work outside and I decided that I needed a rest from what I was doing.  So that is how I left it.  Today, I decided that I would continue in the garden after my afternoon cup of tea.  I started taking tea without sugar as a teenager and soon found the taste of sugar in tea absolutely revolting.  In later years, after I had become used to black coffee, I gave up milk in tea also.  I now find the taste of milk pretty awful as well.  Of course, with no pollutants in the tea, you can make it much weaker, so what you get is a nice amber liquid.

The payoff was that after tea (I try not to call it diner), being that we are now into light evenings, I went down to the Train Shed again and carried on where I had left off.  Here is a picture of the changeover of digikeijs wiring.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-240417210617-512881418.jpeg)

I had a slight hiccup programming the new digikeijs, but otherwise it seemed to work OK, apart from Point 25, which would not change.  All the others (except Point 31, which has still to be installed) worked OK.  On inspection, Point 25 was jammed and it is clear that it must have overheated at some stage, so I will have to change that as well.  But at least I have almost made a full recovery and some progress as well.  Tomorrow, I will need to change Point 25, stick down Point 30 and install Point 31.  That will leave Point 17, which will now be on the small board, although it is controlled by the Digikeijs on the large board.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on April 24, 2017, 09:41:41 pm
Phew!  ;)

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: newportnobby on April 24, 2017, 09:48:29 pm
I'd need something stronger than tea or coffee after a day like that!
It would be amber liquid but otherwise known as Glen.........(insert favourite single malt full name)
And just so I don't upset any Irish persons my favourite whiskey is Bushmills Black Bush ;)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: daveg on April 24, 2017, 09:51:28 pm
I'd need something stronger than tea or coffee after a day like that!
It would be amber liquid but otherwise known as Glen.........(insert favourite single malt full name)
And just so I don't upset any Irish persons my favourite whiskey is Bushmills Black Bush ;)

Glen Fiddleyard?  :pint:

Dave G
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 25, 2017, 06:42:31 am
Well, of course, when we sat down for out tea (or dinner, if you want to be posh) I had a glass or two of Racing Zepplins.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 25, 2017, 07:50:07 am
Looks like you had a heck of a day Laurence, mine didnít go to well either, after Anne getting me the Streamline medium point i tried to fit it to my layout, but because of where it was going it was throwing all the other track out of line, so i will have to revert back to the set track points.

How do you find the Digikeijs has a whole Laurence, are they easy to install and how exactly do the work. Might be a stupid question that Laurence, but my knowledge on electrics is very limited.

Happy Modelling Laurence.      :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 25, 2017, 08:23:06 am
How do you find the Digikeijs has a whole Laurence, are they easy to install and how exactly do the work. Might be a stupid question that Laurence, but my knowledge on electrics is very limited.

Happy Modelling Laurence.      :thumbsup:
They are generally very good.  They have eight outputs suitable for double solenoid point motors.  By default, the outputs are Accessory 1 - 8, but the first can be programmed to any number and the other numbers follow in sequence  (e.g. 9 - 16).  They require a decent 15V power supply plus the DCC input.  I use them with a Gaugemaster DCC02.  To program one, you press the program button on the Digikeijs and then select the start number you want.  I have 46 points using 6 Digikeijs.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 25, 2017, 09:20:07 pm
For many years I have worked at stealing time.  It all started when I was studying for my first degree with the Open University.  I would read a bit during breakfast, while in the lavatory, while having a cup of tea, etc.  That way I could make several extra hours a week, which enabled me to keep on top of things.  I still do it today with the Train Shed, but the format is slightly different.  After breakfast, before I start on anything else, I try to make half an hour or so in the Train Shed.  The same applies at other times when I have a few minutes.  So, even on days when there is really no time to spend there, I usually manage to make some progress.

I think King Lear must have been around today: we have had rain, hail, sleet and snow (well wet snow anyway).  But we do need some rain because, even with the 3.4mm I have measured so far today, there has only been 10.6mm so far this month, which is about 20% of what we would normally expect in a month.  I know there are a few days still to the end of the month, but it would require a catastrophic deluge to get things back on track.  But at least I did get some time in the Train Shed.  I did get a short time in the garden before the rain started again and I was able to erect the butterfly netting over the baby cabbage plants,

I began today where I left off yesterday, by changing the Seep for Point 25.  I tested it and it works OK.  I have also stuck down Point 30 and installed Point 31.  I have tested them both with the frog droppers connected.  I have connected the frog droppers on Points 30 and 31 by soldering to the outside of the check rail connected to the end of the turnout switch blade.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-250417210255-513271235.jpeg)

Connecting up the final point was more of a problem.  I had allowed sufficient room between the remaining point, Point 17, and its immediate neighbour, but I then found a conflict between the Seep and that for Point 30.  After some jiggery pokery, I managed to relocate the point, but it was tight.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-250417210246-513092065.jpeg)

Again I have connected the frog dropper by soldering to the outside of the check rail connected to the end of the turnout switch blade.  So now I am ready to screw down the board and reconnect the loops.  Hereís the final picture of all the points in position.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-250417210258-513281150.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 26, 2017, 07:20:23 am
That is tight Laurence. I am having the same but not like yours problem now i am putting my original points back, they have moved from the original pin position under the board, so now i have to move them again. Still great and very neat work under your boards Laurence.  :thumbsup:

And thank you on your explanation of the the Digikeijs.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 26, 2017, 09:02:26 pm
In my first-thing session this morning, I removed the pins and cleared away all the tools ready for screwing down the board.  I got half way through screwing down the board when I remembered that I need to carry out a final test of all the points.  Alas, Point 30 would not set to turnout.  So, reluctantly, I removed all the screws and lifted the board.  There I found that the brown wire had snapped adjacent to the solder joint on the Seep.  I had to resurrect some of the tools and strip back the insulation, prior to re-soldering.  I then tested all the points on the board before finally(?) screwing it down for the last time (I hope).  I laid the link to the inside loop (Track 18) before going off to my other commitments.

When I went down to the Train Shed first thing the temperature was down to 5.7C.  It was almost as cold yesterday.  So I have switched on the heater again to run overnight on Economy 7.  That should make it a little warmer in the mornings.  I am concerned that if it gets too cold there may be problems with condensation.

I didnít get any time in the Train Shed during the day.  After Pilates we went into Beverley and then I carried on with the block paver edging.  Just to show that I have been occupied constructively while away from the layout, hereís a picture of the result of the last two dayís labour in the garden.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-260417204523-513641413.jpeg)

I did manage to get into the Train Shed after tea for about an hour.  I have been trying to reconnect the re-laid points to the existing loops.  After struggling for a while, I decided that the critical loop was Track 14 and so I laid this first, followed by tracks 15 to 18.  I have not brought out the Copydex for them yet (although I did originally Copydex Track 18) and I am leaving them pinned until I am sure that they will all be OK.  So tomorrow I have to continue with Tracks 13, 12 and 11.  This is the position at close of play today.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-260417204539-51377550.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 27, 2017, 05:44:48 am
Very nice productive garden there Laurence, a lot better then ours, but we are getting there slowly. Points are a bit of a pain to all of us arenít they.    Happy Modelling Laurence.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 27, 2017, 08:37:09 pm
Thursday is normally our day out and today was no exception.  We went to Beningbrough Hall, which is off the A19 north of York.  Although the weather has not been good today, it was kind to us while we were there.  It rained most of the way there and most of the way back, but we only had a short, very light shower while we were there.  First thing, before we went, I worked on my time stealing again.  I started by fixing Loop 18, followed by Loops 17 and 16. 

When we arrived home again, the weather was not conducive to working in the garden so I managed some more time in the train shed.  By the end of the session I had fixed all the loops into place, together with the branch run arounds.  I have simply run straight lengths of track across the board joins so that, if ever I should need to lift either of the boards again, I will have to lift the track lengths that span the board joins first.  Having spent quite a time track laying, I now feel confident that this would not be too arduous.  I wonít bother to ballast the hidden loops, so that should make it easier to lift the boards, if required.  Hereís a picture of the completed loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-270417201508-51379669.jpeg)

I have tested all the points on both boards and also run a wagon across all the points to ensure that everything will run smoothly when I start running trains again, hopefully tomorrow.  I have just to lift the branch entry into the tunnel and connect the cut track lengths with rail joiners to ensure a smooth run overt the join between the DOWN side board and the DOWN loops.

I now have to decide whether it is worth going through the same exercise with the UP loops.  I suspect that I will go ahead because I might as well get it all done now rather than wait until it becomes more difficult later.  But first, I must carry out live running tests on the loops I have just re-laid.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: lil chris on April 27, 2017, 08:57:12 pm
Looking good there Laurence, those Digikeijs seem a bit troublesome to me, I am pleased I am not using those. Eventually I might automate my fiddle yard which is powered with peco point motors but I was going to use nce ones but they seem to have discontinued the 8 way one.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 28, 2017, 06:50:06 am
Looking good there Laurence, those Digikeijs seem a bit troublesome to me, I am pleased I am not using those. Eventually I might automate my fiddle yard which is powered with peco point motors but I was going to use nce ones but they seem to have discontinued the 8 way one.
I don't think the problem is with the Digikeijs.  I think the polling system of the Prodigy Advance DCC02 is sometimes very slow.  It was probably my impatience that resulted in my sending a second signal to the Digikeijs before the first one had executed, causing a short across the two outputs.  I now wait for the first to execute, which occasionally takes several seconds.  I sometimes find that when I try to execute an emergency stop on a loco that it takes a few seconds to stop.  If I press it twice then it stops straight away.  I may, eventually replace the DCC controller, but it will have to do for the moment.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steven B on April 28, 2017, 09:03:30 am
Some of the tracks on your end loops still look very close together and you may find you end up with trains hitting each other. Before you finish re-laying the track it's worthwhile running your trains through to make sure you don't have the problems you had before.

If you blue-tack a pencil to the middle of your longest coach you can draw a line that shows the space you need to allow for overhang. Allow the same space on the inside of the curve and you shouldn't have any more problems with trains colliding.


Happy modelling.

Steven B.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 28, 2017, 09:25:17 am
Actually, the tracks are now further apart than they were before I relaid them and there was sufficient room then.  The reason for relaying wasn't because of the distance between the tracks, but because of poor running due to track alignment at the points.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: escafeld on April 28, 2017, 07:28:44 pm
]I don't think the problem is with the Digikeijs. 

But the Digikeijs module should really have some short circuit protection to prevent damage to it.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 28, 2017, 08:58:55 pm
Today was a very productive day, although there was some bad news.  First, I removed all the remaining pins from the loops.  Then I lifted the branch track sections where the DOWN side board joins the DOWN loops and fitted rail joiners to ensure a smooth ride over the join.  I may do the same for the main lines at some time, but they seem to be operating OK most of the time.  After that, it was working in the garden time, first tip pruning the espaliers, followed by laying more edging.  That took until cup of tea time in the afternoon, by which time I had had enough.

You may remember that, because of the design variation between the medium radius points and the curved points, I connected the frog droppers to the inside of the central check rail rather than to the link between the switch blades and the frogs.  Here you can see the solder joints as shiny attachments to the check rails (the central check rails are the extensions of the switch blades extending along the frogs).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-280417182750-514781315.jpeg)

So then it was time to go back to the Train Shed.  I tested each of the new loops one by one, using the trains stored in the UP loops.  So the train in Loop 1 tested Loop11, the one in Loop 2 tested Loop 12, etc.  The Royal Scott, Hall and Jubilee were assigned to loops 11 to 13 and passed off without a hitch.  The 9F had no problems with Loop 14.  It was then that I noticed a slight misalignment of tracks at a rail join in Loop 15, where the Copydex had obviously given way after the pins were removed.  However, this was easily rectified by the use of a single track pin.  Now came the first bit of bad news.  Not regarding the newly laid loops, but the loco in Loop 5 was the 2-6-4T.  It behaved appallingly all the way round the layout, even though it is the only loco that has been through the wheel cleaner. In the end, I parked in the branch platform where the Grange had been and used the Grange for the test.  The Grange was still a bit Graunchy, although it ran reasonably well.  So I backed the 2-6-4T along the branch line and brought out B17 ďLiverpoolĒ, slotting the Grange back into the branch.  The B17 ran impeccably, as always, so there were no concerns with Track 15.  Hereís a picture of the B17 testing Track 15.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-280417182755-51482476.jpeg)

Track 16 was tested with the 38XX.  More bad news was in store.  The pony truck started playing up again, this time causing derailments and shorts across switch blades.  I lifted the 38XX from the tracks and examined the pony truck.  When I tried the loco on the baseboard, the pony wheels revolved so there was good contact, but the pony truck seemed very stiff on its pivot.  I tried wiggling it back and forth by hand and that seemed to improve matters somewhat.  When I returned the loco to the tracks, it worked without further mishap.  I think I will apply a little clock oil to the pivot to see if that frees it up a little further.

Track 17 was tested with the 57XX and proved to be no problem.  So that left Track 18.  The J39 worked well, but I wanted to check the Stanier Class 5 because that has a slightly longer wheelbase, so I swapped them over in the milk loop  In the end it worked well, so now all the tracks have been tested and it remains only to move all the trains to the Down loops to check that there is no problem when they are all there, side by side.  I donít anticipate any problem because there is slightly more space between some of the tracks that there was before and none are closer than before.

The main issues solved with the re-laying of the loops are that there is smoother running over the joints, particularly at the points and there is no problem with tight radii to join the loops to the exit points.  This was mainly a problem for the 9F, the 38XX and the Grange.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Steamie+ on April 29, 2017, 04:04:15 am
It is still a very impressive layout Laurence no matter what and i am sure you will get over those little problems  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 29, 2017, 07:46:44 pm
On Saturdays, we walk into town, go to the butcherís, have a cup of coffee and walk home again.  However, before breakfast (we have a cooked breakfast at the weekend Ė smoked haddock today) I did manage some time-stealing in the Train Shed.  I moved all the trains in the UP loops round into the DOWN loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-290417193645-515041410.jpeg)

Before I could move the branch train I had to do some jiggery-pokery with the trains on the branch line.  But I finished with all the trains from the UP loop boards moved to the DOWN loop boards.  This checked that there was no problem with all the trains in the loops and it freed up all the UP loops for their make-over.  Most of the rest of the day was spent putting in more edging for the espaliers, but I did get into the Train Shed again before close of play and I had to make up my mind whether I should complete the Metcalfe cottages or start on the UP loops.  In the end, I stripped out the UP loops ready for lifting the large board.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-290417193648-515111773.jpeg)

Tomorrow, I hope to be able to finish the Metcalfe cottages before turning my full attention to the UP loops.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on April 30, 2017, 09:05:43 pm
Sunday morning is a time for a nice walk, usually along the river.  Today was no exception.  Before we went, I made a start on the second pair of workersí cottages.  I wish I hadnít.  Having already built one pair, I launched into this without due care and attention.  I tried cutting along the line to remove the building wall only to find that, with the wrong glasses, I had started cutting on the wrong line.  In the end, we went for our walk.

Afterwards, there was plenty to do in the garden, so I didnít get out to the Train Shed until mid-afternoon.  I was able to pick up the pieces and soldier on until the second pair was complete.  Hereís a picture of both pairs.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-300417203752-515122025.jpeg)

I have still to fit the ridge tiles and window sills, but I will do that tomorrow before I make a start on lifting the large UP loop board.  I have another pack of workersí cottages to make, but Iíll wait until after Iíve finished the UP loops before returning to buildings.  I had trouble with both the Rocket glue and UHU today.  I see that Metcalfe also recommend Deluxe Materials Speedbond quick setting PVA so I have order some of that, together with some Glue íN Glaze.  While I was about it, I realised that I now have no spare Seeps, so I have ordered a couple more to allow for any further disasters.  I need to get on with the UP loops so that I can get trains running again.  Then I can sort out the wheel cleaning and running in issues.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: port perran on April 30, 2017, 09:13:22 pm
Obviously better weather up with you today.
Wet here most of the day so no walking for us. Hopeful of better weather tomorrow and perhaps a stroll to Gwennap Street Fete.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Milton Rail on May 01, 2017, 11:50:24 am
Making great progress with the buildings Laurence, hope you get on top of the point issues
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on May 01, 2017, 08:31:33 pm
Well, Iíve finally gone and done it.  Iíve ordered Tiverton Castle from Rails of Sheffield.  The Hall will now replace the Grange on the longer of the two ex-GWR hauled intermediate passengers and the Grange, in turn, will replace the Manor.  The manor is now downgraded to local passenger duties and the 2-6-4T will haul the shorter of the two local passenger trains.  That frees up the 57XX for a possible branch goods train.  I already have an idea for a branch goods schedule.  I still have a Prairie on pre-order from Hattons.  I might just keep it and then use either the 2-6-4T or the Manor for a parcels train, if I can work out how to fit it into the operating timetable.

Before table tennis, I managed to fit all the window sills on the cottages and sheds.  After table tennis, I had garden jobs to do, but later, I fitted all the ridge tiles as well.  Then I started on the chimney pots.  I was interrupted by a need to mow the grass while the weather is still dry.  Hereís a picture of the cottages in what will be roughly their final position on the layout.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-010517201859-515252439.jpeg)

One has chimney pots and the other doesnít.  Iím not completely enamoured with the paper pots and have ordered some 3-D printed ones to see if they are better (and much less of a fiddle).
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on May 02, 2017, 07:53:48 pm
Eureka!  I have worked out how to fit in a parcels train and a branch goods train.  The secret was adding additional parts to the sub-cycles.  You may remember that each cycle (where every train moved at least once) is divided into four sub-cycles and each sub cycle was divided into two parts.  In the first part, there was always an intermediate passenger train and the longer of the two suburban passenger trains plus the branch passenger.  In the second part, there was sometimes the shorter suburban passenger train and a long distance goods and on other occasions, a milk train or local goods movement together with an express passenger train, plus the branch passenger.  Well now I have added a third part to some of the sub-cycles, for the milk train or the local goods, the parcels train and the branch goods.  The second part will now always involve the shorter suburban passenger and either a long distance goods or an express passenger train.

First thing this morning, before going off to the gym, I lifted the large UP loops board and removed all the points and seeps.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-020517191451-51575349.jpeg)

Hereís a picture of the top of the large board before screwing down again. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-020517191440-515711372.jpeg)

There wasnít too much gardening work today (well actually thereís plenty to do, but I chose not to) so I managed a little more time in the Train Shed.  I screwed down the corners and the side adjacent to the small board and then lifted the small board

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-020517191447-51574220.jpeg)

It took me quite a while to work out exactly what I was going to do because I wanted to keep some of the existing points, if possible.  Adding a preceding point, could have easily led to too tight a radius from the UP main, while adding a following point would have seriously overlapped onto the large board.  In the end, I managed to cram in a preceding point.  I will keep you updated as I progress.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on May 03, 2017, 07:14:37 pm
Before we went to the gym today, I fitted the new point, what was originally Point 3.  I fitted the Seep and tested it, then fixed it with Copydex.  Later I swapped the connections to the Digikeijs so that Point 1 became Point 2, Point 2 Point 3 and the old Point 3 was now point 1.  This maintained the point switching for the routes.  After dinner (these days called lunch) I did some garden jobs but after the usual magical cup of tea I spent some more time in the Train Shed. 

NEW ARRIVALS!  After lunch, I received three parcels.  First, Tiverton Castle arrived.  Then there was a package with the adhesive and spare Seeps from Hattons.  Finally, a box of round headed pins, for sealing glue dispensers, because I have already lost one of the originals.  I thought a box of spares might be useful.  I assigned Tiverton Castle a DCC loco ID of 15, which is not used at the moment.  Hereís a picture of it travelling as a light engine, entering Marton Hinmarche on the UP main.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-030517180356-515811966.jpeg)

Eventually, it will become Loco 8, hauling the WR express passenger train, while the Hall will be downgraded to Loco 1, an intermediate passenger replacing the Grange which, in turn, will be downgraded to Loco 4, also an intermediate passenger.  This will release the Manor, which may be assigned either to local passenger duties or to haul the parcels train.  In my youthful experience at Birmingham Snow Hill and Leamington Spa General, the Manors were generally assigned to these categories of trains. 

The adhesives will add to my experience of gluing card models.  Hereís a picture of the adhesives and the pins.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-030517180345-515762152.jpeg)

I did some more work on the loop points, removing the Seep from what was Point 5 and replacing it with the one from Point 9, to maintain the original operating parameters.  At this stage I experienced a short circuit which proved difficult to track down.  After a lot of disconnections and checking with the multimeter, I discovered that I must, somehow, have cross connected the frog connections of Point 9 and Point 3.  Phew!  I have now mapped out the positions of Points 5 and 6, which I hope to connect tomorrow.  Hereís a picture of the current state of Play on the small board.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-030517180350-515801167.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on May 04, 2017, 08:44:19 pm
In order to run a Branch Goods, I will need to use two locos on the branch, 6417 and 9744.  I know that 9744 was equipped with steam brakes and so would have been suitable for branch passenger work.  The branch has a run around at each end in the hidden loop boards but, because there could be two trains at the same end at the same time, running around might not always be possible.  In those circumstances, the locos would have to change trains.  So the two locos would operate the Branch Passenger and the Branch Goods between them. 

In order to run a parcels train, I have arranged that the two long distance freight trains will share an UP loop track, Track 4, but use separate tracks (Tracks 14 and 16) in the DOWN loops.  This allows me to free an UP loop track for the parcels train.  I will then be able to run it down into the loop vacated by the milk train and then up again to its UP loop, when the local goods runs down into the goods loop.  I will the run it down again when the milk train runs up into its UP loop, followed by running it up when the local goods runs into its DOWN loop.  The situation will be reversed to get the milk train and local goods back to their home loops.  This will happen twice for a complete operational timetable.  The operational timetable will now have 40 parts (16 sub-cycles, eight with two parts and eight with three) and I have extended each by allowing 10 seconds between operations instead of the original five.  This means that the complete operational timetable will now take 400 minutes to complete, which is the exact time it used to take the Caledonian to travel from London Euston to Glasgow Central (and the same time for the return journey).

This morning, before our usual Thursday foray, I managed to remove all the odd bits of track attached to the existing points and remove the power dropper joiners that were connected to them.  The power joiners will not be required now because I have decided to run continuous lengths of rail across the board joins.  After our outing, I began to work on the remaining points.  Here you can see the points and their connecting rail sections ready for marking out for the underlay.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-040517202846-51605768.jpeg)

After I had fitted the cork underlay for the new points, I set about preparing for the first point, Point 5.  I have stuck down the approach rail, cut back the underlay and drilled the board ready to fit the Seep.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-040517202842-516042244.jpeg)

More news will follow tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Mito on May 04, 2017, 09:26:02 pm
I do enjoy reading the Daily Chronicle. You are certainly making better progress than I am.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 04, 2017, 09:44:58 pm
I do enjoy reading the Daily Chronicle. You are certainly making better progress than I am.

Agreed  :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on May 04, 2017, 11:17:00 pm
Hello & thanks for the updates Laurence still making excellent progress
      regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovationgame on May 05, 2017, 08:10:43 pm
Today I had a disaster, but it was nothing that went wrong in the Train Shed.  I began the day by securing Point 5 and fitting the Seep.  The point was tested before I moved on. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-050517181139-516211550.jpeg)

After that there was gardening work to do.  Our salad bed, which originally sprouted encouragingly, had suffered a setback, in that all the lettuce and baby turnips had disappeared, although the beetroot appears to be OK.  Thereís no sign of any withered plants, so we concluded that it must be slugs.  I treated the bed with slug pellets last night and, sure enough, there were dead slugs there this morning.  So I decided to replant the lettuce and turnips.  Because I had covered the bed with netting to prevent the blackbirds from up-ending everything in their quest for worms, I had to roll back the netting and remove one of the horizontal supporting poles.  This meant I had to contort myself to reach over to the other end of the bed.  Everything was fine until I started to straighten up.  Something touched the nerve root at L5-S1 and it was extremely painful.  I know that I had to protect it, so there was no more gardening.  I had a session on the bat table, applied some Volterol Gel and took some ibuprofen as an anti-inflammatory.  Then it was alternating between lying down, sitting, walking and standing.  Ouch!

After dinner (sorry again, lunch) I decided that I could stand (literally) the Train Shed and so I set about finishing the remaining points.  If you think things were tight on the DOWN loop board, this shows that it was even tighter on the UP loops.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-050517181131-51620412.jpeg)

Finally, I finished all of the points and tested everything on the board.  It all worked well.  Here are all the points after completion.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-050517181129-516132289.jpeg)

Once the points were completed, I set about fitting the approach track to the new layout.  I was worried about the tightness of the approach curve, but the 9F managed to negotiate it without a problem, so I am happy with that.  Hereís the 9F testing the curve.  The radius is about 27cm.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/3091-050517200101-516222252.jpeg)

I hope I will get a good nightís rest tonight and be (nearly) back to normal in the morning.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: cornish yorkie on May 06, 2017, 08:35:15 am
Hello Laurence hope all is well, steady with the gardening points looking good
      regards Derek.
Title: Re: The Train Shed Project
Post by: Innovat