N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Continental N Gauge => Topic started by: Gordon on June 18, 2015, 11:31:43 pm

Title: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 18, 2015, 11:31:43 pm
Kato RhB N gauge Allegra just received - wow!

Dare 'em to do a working RhB Crocodile



Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on June 19, 2015, 09:33:30 am
Good Morning Gordon, Have you had a chance to run it yet, I am sure it wont disappoint I wish that they did a krokodile as there is not much on the Market at the moment. Let us know how it runs. Thank you Babs :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 19, 2015, 11:58:55 pm
I have already run it. I got it on Tuesday and on Wednesday pm ran it round a Unitrack circuit which I temporarily set upalmost every club night at my MRC.

I looks superb and runs well.

It was a tad noisier than I was expecting, but I like that with electric models as it is 'DCC sound' but for free!

During the club evening I immediately swapped the dummy coupling for the provided replacement put it to work hauling my Glacier Express set. I then replicated a train I photted at Bergun, by adding a Ge4/4III to the consist!

Got the first one from Japan but another one has arrived today courtesy Train Trax

Photos to follow






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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on June 20, 2015, 12:49:27 am
Hi, :hellosign:
Many of N Italian gaugers on Nparty forum (and association) have bought it and tested.....they said it is a great model and runners...

Good night frm Italy
Marco Neri
 :ngauge:.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on June 20, 2015, 05:10:01 pm
Hi Gordon I meant to ask does the railcar go up gradients okay. Thank you Babs
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Agrippa on June 26, 2015, 07:51:05 am
Nice pix !
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on June 26, 2015, 08:50:33 am
Very nice indeed what Wonderful layout you have. Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on June 26, 2015, 08:52:48 pm
Looking good and I also like your layout -  vaguely reminiscent of Stalden.

It was the GE that finally pushed me off the fence to actively start something Swiss and N gauge - even if the Kato is an odd scale. I sincerely hope that Kato continue with this scheme and produce something for the Zentrallbahn (Interlaken to Luzern).
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2015, 12:04:10 am
.

Thanks for the complements. I will post more photos of the layout on a separate post.

I should point out that the first and last pictures are actually on the club French layout where the backscene represents the Cote D'Or escarpment south of Dijon.

By the way Babz, I have not tried it on gradients. My layouts tend to have level track with scenery above and below to give depth.

However at the club on Wednesday I had the Allegra hauling a double GEx set (12 coaches of coures!) round Kato 315 radius.

I have also part replicated a train I photted at Bergun, which had an Allegra (on delivery/test) leading Ge4/4III 651 Glacier on Tour, a 6-car GEx set and a standard Chur - St Moritz coach set.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2015, 12:26:51 am
Here's a scratch/bash standard mark 1 coach (I've done three)


P1060445
P1060445





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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on June 27, 2015, 09:35:27 am
Gordon,
           as a newbie, I was very excited by your last photo of the GEX with a 'standard' Rhb coach - as I didn't know that these were available in N. You imply its from a Chur-St Moritz set.

Can I ask who produces these and what the correct coach designation is ? 
(hopefully its not one of the expensive AB Model ones ?) are other variations of this coach style also available ?

Paul
 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: dodger on June 28, 2015, 06:05:03 am
Nice pictures of good looking models.

Have you tried the Allegra or Glacier express on really sharp curves. These vehicles could be the answer for my new layout where I may be limited by insufficient width for even 9 inch radius curves.

Dodger
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 29, 2015, 12:09:39 am
Nice pictures of good looking models.

Have you tried the Allegra or Glacier express on really sharp curves. These vehicles could be the answer for my new layout where I may be limited by insufficient width for even 9 inch radius curves.

Dodger


Both will do Kato's sharper radius curves, down to about the 183 radius. The marketing paperwork for the sets quote the official minimum radius.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on June 29, 2015, 08:43:25 pm
Hi Gordon,
               apologies - I managed to view your picture and hide the section saying the coach was scratch built - DOH !
In fairness, I thought it was commercially produced - greater praise etc.
Very professional job. Whast donor vehicles did you use ?
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: cornish yorkie on July 31, 2015, 12:05:44 am
Hi Gordon superb pictures, all looking really excellent.
regards Derek
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 04, 2015, 10:30:19 pm
.

Just to register in this thread that my article was in the December Continental Modeller.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 04, 2015, 10:53:02 pm
.

RhB Ge4/4III

For those who don't like advertising liveries...but may want their layout scenarios to be realistic.

As I mention in my CM article, RhB Ge4/4 III 644 'Savognin' the first model issue by Kato was in plain red during 1994 and 1995, then in 2011 and 2012.

648 which has been in advertising liveries since 1997, has been plain red during 2015.


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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2016, 12:20:11 am
.

New item 2016: Bernina express coaches




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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Outtenbach on January 13, 2016, 05:45:46 pm
Thanks for the heads up Gordon, that's something to look forward to.................
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k561/swordfishfairey/Bernina%20coaches_zpslxvfp27x.jpg) (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/swordfishfairey/media/Bernina%20coaches_zpslxvfp27x.jpg.html)

Tony
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 14, 2016, 12:30:27 am
.

We can do better than that...

https://picasaweb.google.com/ngauge.information/20160112KATOVol3?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGymYvL9LHd-AE&feat=embedwebsite


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on January 14, 2016, 02:44:58 am
.

We can do better than that...

https://picasaweb.google.com/ngauge.information/20160112KATOVol3?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGymYvL9LHd-AE&feat=embedwebsite


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.

Gives me an "Internal Server Error"...
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Sprintex on January 14, 2016, 04:48:35 am
Link working OK here, some strange-looking grey and yellow train ;)


Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on January 14, 2016, 08:29:20 am
Aha, it wanted me to be logged in to Google.

Another picture here: https://www.facebook.com/modeltrainplus/ (https://www.facebook.com/modeltrainplus/) (no login required)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Outtenbach on January 14, 2016, 01:51:36 pm

Mmmmmmmm! mouth wateringly good. :drool: :drool: :drool:...........

Tony
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on January 14, 2016, 03:34:42 pm
It looks like Kato has realised that they have found a good gap in the market.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of sales go to tourists and what percentage to modellers.
Despite the odd scale - we benefit.

At a recent exhibition, a well known importer of continental goodies told me that Zentalbahn was in discussion with Bemo and Kato to produce the new Zentalbahn stock. Apparently Bemo produce the drawings in CAD for Hom and these are sold to Kato and downscaled to N.

The problem with the Zentralbahn is that the stock is not used by other railways, so model manufacturers can't market several different liveries/repaints so its not a very lucrative product. On the other hand Zentalbahn seems to be one of the few Swiss railways that has any grasp of merchandising. If the ZB cvers more of the upfront costs it might yet happen, lets hope so.
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 06, 2016, 07:19:13 pm
Gordon Have you Preordered  The Kato Bernina Express Elok 74037 And 74038 by any chance from Japan1999. Best Regards
Babz  PsThank you for the Heads up on the Coaches
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 06, 2016, 11:29:10 pm
Gordon Have you Preordered  The Kato Bernina Express Elok 74037 And 74038 by any chance from Japan1999. Best Regards
Babz  PsThank you for the Heads up on the Coaches

No, I can't see them on 1999 Japan, only on German shop sites for the hideous price of Euro 179

odd





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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 07, 2016, 12:19:23 pm
Gordon Thank you, I have sent an Email Asking for to reserve these I will let you know the out come. Babs
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 07, 2016, 11:38:28 pm
I have seen a reference to these locos as 'exclusive for Europe only'.

It is clearly a marketing tie-up with Noch, which is probably bad news for 'us ordinary folk' who have so far been able to obtain this stuff from Japan or Japanese import sources like Gaugemaster and TrainTrax

A clear admission that Europeans are snapping up the concept of Kato 9mm gauge RhB!




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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 09, 2016, 02:48:38 pm
Gordon & anybody who is Interested, It seems you are probably correct, This reply i have in my view is a polite way of saying it. But they are selling the Coaches ??? Babs

Dear Barbara 

Thank you very much for your inquiry.

Regarding the product in question, we have just checked
our inventory but unfortunately we do not deal this item.

As we do not deal the item, unfortunately we are
unable to offer this item for you.

We are very sorry for your inconvenience, but your understanding
of this matter will be greatly appreciated.

If there are any other questions or problems,
please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely Yours,
Keiichi Yokobori

------------------------------------------------
Hobby Search Co., Ltd.
Website: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng)
Smartphone Site: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/ (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/)
Contact: hs-support@1999.co.jp
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 09, 2016, 02:56:54 pm
Going by this list: http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml (http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml) the release date hasn't yet been finalized. It certainly looks like it's being released in Japan, so should be obtainable via Japanese channels after release. I'm overdue for a prowl around the local model shops so will look out for it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 09, 2016, 03:00:11 pm
Hi Railsquid, That would be really great Please keep us Informed. Thank you Babs
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 09, 2016, 11:34:51 pm
Going by this list: [url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url])  It certainly looks like it's being released in Japan,


I'm not so sure. Babz was originally asking about the availability of two new Ge4/4III locos (in yellow - Lazzerini) and red (Heidiland-Bernina).

These are not the same as the Bernina Express coach sets that are being launched.

As far as I can work out the following is what will happen:

set 10-1318 / 10-1319 - these are Allegra railcars with Bernina Express coaches - and will be available in Japan and elsewhere

item numbers 74037/74038 (note the non-kato (i.e. Noch?) references) - Ge4/4III in two new liveries - exclusive for Europe only and will only be available from Noch through German retailers - e.g. they are already showing on Modellbahn Lippe's site.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 09, 2016, 11:51:42 pm
Going by this list: [url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url])  It certainly looks like it's being released in Japan,


I'm not so sure. Babz was originally asking about the availability of two new Ge4/4III locos (in yellow - Lazzerini) and red (Heidiland-Bernina).

These are not the same as the Bernina Express coach sets that are being launched.

As far as I can work out the following is what will happen:

set 10-1318 / 10-1319 - these are Allegra railcars with Bernina Express coaches - and will be available in Japan and elsewhere

item numbers 74037/74038 (note the non-kato (i.e. Noch?) references) - Ge4/4III in two new liveries - exclusive for Europe only and will only be available from Noch through German retailers - e.g. they are already showing on Modellbahn Lippe's site.

Oh sorry, got confused there.

(I must say, apart from the Glacier Express et al, Kato are quite coy about their European range of models, there's a small selection of mainly German stuff in their HQ store but though some stuff turns up 2nd hand I haven't seen any even in shops specializing in overseas models).
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 10, 2016, 12:12:10 am
The Kato situation is not only 'coy' but hideously complex and confusing, there is Kato Lemke or is it Lemke by Kato; Hobbytrain (Kato); Kato by Kato; Hobbytrain (with no mention of Kato), etc etc; and now we have the Noch (by Kato) ! give up!

There are other similarly confusing marketing tie ups becoming common (e.g. Oxford diecast appearing in European scenics ranges despite being 1:148 not 1:160)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 10, 2016, 12:02:41 pm
Going by this list: [url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url])  It certainly looks like it's being released in Japan,


I'm not so sure. Babz was originally asking about the availability of two new Ge4/4III locos (in yellow - Lazzerini) and red (Heidiland-Bernina).

These are not the same as the Bernina Express coach sets that are being launched.

As far as I can work out the following is what will happen:

set 10-1318 / 10-1319 - these are Allegra railcars with Bernina Express coaches - and will be available in Japan and elsewhere

item numbers 74037/74038 (note the non-kato (i.e. Noch?) references) - Ge4/4III in two new liveries - exclusive for Europe only and will only be available from Noch through German retailers - e.g. they are already showing on Modellbahn Lippe's site.

I did Ask Japan1999 For the Reference numbers Kato 74037 & Kato 74038 whis is the Ref Number use on the German MSL site

   
Manufacturer:       KATO
Art.-No.       74037
EAN:       4007246740376
Gauge       N 1:160
Railway Company:       RhB
Era Designation:       IV-VI
Power system       DC
Digital-Decoder:       Nein
Length over buffer:       103 mm
Delivery Date:       Q1/2016
Manufacturer price:       179,99 €

I certainly Knew what i was asking for and they Understood. There are two sets one with the Allegra and one is a 4 coach set with the Bernina Express by Kato. Babs



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Outtenbach on February 12, 2016, 01:26:13 pm
I found this link that looks interesting............ https://twitter.com/katoshoptokyo/status/697011662763618304

Tony
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 12, 2016, 01:56:56 pm
FWIW it says "The coupling fitted is the same as the so-called 'Glacier Express short coupling set'".
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on February 12, 2016, 11:30:02 pm
I think Modellbahn Kramm have some good proces now (€20 0ff) on the new Bernina sets

E-Lok Ge4/4-III 644 LAZZARINI der RhB, in gelb, N-Spur
http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074038 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074038)

E-Lok Ge4/4-III 641 Bernina Express Heidiland der RhB
http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074037 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074037)

Start-Set Bernina Express 5-teilig der RhB, Inhalt: Elektro-Triebwagen Allegra 3-teilig mit neuer Betr.-Nr. und 2 Bernina-Wagen, N-Spur
http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074041 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074041)

Set Ergänzungswagen Bernina Express 4-teilig der RhB
http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074042 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074042)

MBK have always provided me with a very good service.






Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 12, 2016, 11:59:18 pm
Kato seems to have decided that the short coupling is OK as standard (I agree - my sets fitted with the short coupling still go round very tight curves.)

I have used the fact that my Glacier Express coaches are fitted with the short couplings to haul them with an Allegra, also with a short coupling.

I won't be getting the two Ge4/4III as I have already done my own repaints at minimum cost, nor the Allegra set as I already have three. But I might get the extension set of 4 BEX coaches just for the sake of variety.

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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on March 25, 2016, 02:01:51 pm
On offer at DM-Toys

Swiss Alps Glacier Express N Scale Starter Set
Art. No. K10-006
Kato
bargain offer - catalogue price 2013: 199,99 €

Starter Set with all you need! Enlarge the train with K10-1146!

179.99 EUR
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 26, 2016, 09:44:22 pm
On offer at DM-Toys
Glacier Express Starter Set No. K10-006
bargain offer - catalogue price 2013: 199,99 €
179.99

Warning, this is not really a bargain on this occasion.

Same set is available from Train Trax in UK for £140.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: dannyboy on March 26, 2016, 10:14:39 pm
And as £140 is, as makes no difference, €179.99, anyone thinking of buying this set, might as well stick with Keith at Train Trax. Items can be a bit cheaper buying direct from Japan, but then you have to hope that HM Customs don't get too nosy! I have bought most of my Kato stuff from Train Trax and the only problem I ever had was caused by  :censored: Royal Mail!  Usual disclaimer about just being a satisfied customer etc.  :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on March 26, 2016, 11:31:49 pm
I agree buy British ( well Kato from Keith at Train Trax)

I hadn't done the conversion or comparison as I was too lazy busy .

Caveat emptor.

Nick R

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 05, 2016, 12:47:06 am
Interesting to note the following re the two Noch Ge4/4III

One was issued in the yellow Lazzarini livery (loco 644, which is the one Kato did in plain red as their first Ge4/4III and that model is still available.) BTW Kato modelled 644 in plain red because when the model was being developed 644 it was in that livery on the real railway in 2011 and 2012 having previously carried four other advertising liveries)

The other was Heidiland Bernina Express, which was loco 641 but it only carried the Heidiland livery 1995 - 1998, ever since it has been in Co-Op livery .

Now, I have noticed that  Lazzarini version sold very well and is sold out, but the Heidiland version is still available.

By my reckoning the above happened because Lazzarini is a current livery which is what most modellers of this stuff want because the Heidiland livery is too old to match the Glacier Express coaches...

...except (!!!!!)...

the Lazzarini livery is no more...644 has been repainted red in a new plain RhB livery not seen  before.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 05, 2016, 05:43:30 pm
Many thanks Gordon, both for the info and for the impetus to get me looking for a shot of the new livery.

Here's what I found:

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/schweiz~rhaetische-bahn~e-loks-ge-4-4-iii/965154/ge-44-644-savognin-im-neuen.html (http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/schweiz~rhaetische-bahn~e-loks-ge-4-4-iii/965154/ge-44-644-savognin-im-neuen.html)

I suspect this website is nothing new to you, but I was really pleased to find it, and soon found it had such a wealth of photos of the Rhb line and stock.

Hopefully it will be new to others like me.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 06, 2016, 01:36:47 am

I suspect this website is nothing new to you, .


Indeed not, and for some RhB photos taken on 14 September, I saw the photographer taking them!

BTW, you ain't seen nothin' yet...

start drooling

ready?...

http://www.haribu.ch (http://www.haribu.ch)





.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 06, 2016, 08:16:45 am
Lucky man.

Now don't tell me you've got a picture of ........... 8)  :jawdropping:

My my! :D

I look forward to it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 09, 2016, 01:52:34 pm
Hi Gordon, it seems the link in your last post wasn't showing when I read it, hence my evidently rather odd reply above.* I see the link now and thank you for the excellent link to all those lovely Swiss locos and other rolling stock. Superb. :thumbsup:

I am still awaiting delivery of my GE Unesco model and understand that Digitrax do a suitable digital decoder. However, I am struggling to find one for the Allegra EMU. Have you managed to source one?

*- there is of course the possibility that I'm a victim of creeping senility and just didn't see your link. :uneasy:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 10, 2016, 12:28:39 am

I am still awaiting delivery of my GE Unesco model and understand that Digitrax do a suitable digital decoder. However, I am struggling to find one for the Allegra EMU. Have you managed to source one?

Having held off the Unesco set as I was busy repainting original red 644s from the original wave of GEX sets that I got dirt cheap when they first came out, I saw one on sale at the Folkestone show last week so decided to buy it before any more silly falls in the £...

Sorry, I'm not into Digital so cannot help. With elctric outline models I'm happy with the natural hum that traction units have in N gauge, so I don't feel the need for any more sound.


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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 18, 2016, 01:36:10 pm
Saw this item dated 11/10/2016 on Bahnonline.ch today about the GE 4/4 III loco variation liveries. I don't remember seeing the 'Die Kleine Rote' version on the n model 650 before. All listed at €179.99, and confirming the Lazzarini is now no longer available.

http://www.noch.de/pdf/ueber-noch/handelsmarken/kato/2016/08-2016/Update-08-2016_Endverbraucher.pdf (http://www.noch.de/pdf/ueber-noch/handelsmarken/kato/2016/08-2016/Update-08-2016_Endverbraucher.pdf)

And available here

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/KATO/36-2-005001-269049-0-0-0-36-11-2-0-gatt-gb-h-0/produkt.html (http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/KATO/36-2-005001-269049-0-0-0-36-11-2-0-gatt-gb-h-0/produkt.html)

Seems this was probably a press release from August, so apologies if it is old news.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 18, 2016, 11:10:45 pm
Saw this item dated 11/10/2016 on Bahnonline.ch today about the GE 4/4 III loco variation liveries. I don't remember seeing the 'Die Kleine Rote' version on the n model 650 before. All listed at €179.99, and confirming the Lazzarini is now no longer available.

Seems this was probably a press release from August, so apologies if it is old news.


AAgh [expletive deleted!] this is a complete surprise to me - and I'm supposed to be the expert on the stuff!

I don't recall the 'Kleine Rote' or 'Coop' being mooted.

I'm irritated as well as surprised, as members probably know from previous posts I did a home repaint to create a Coop loco. Now (as so often when us modellers do a scratch or kit build only for it to be followed by a ready to run issue) I'm feeling a little deflated.

The 'irritated' feeling comes from the fact that, ideally,  what we need from  Kato is ready to run versions of the complex advertising liveries. The Kleine Rote is mainly red with lettering, Coop is mainly white with lettering, and Lazzerini was mainly yellow with some lettering.

Kato would better serve us if they produced the intricate such as 'RhB Team' or 'Hockey Club Davos' and particularly '20 Minuten'








(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/704-181016230703.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=44688)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 08:34:45 am
Ah, but you do have the satisfaction and joy of having done the conversion yourself, as well as keeping at least €148.00 in your bank account.

I came across this news completely by accident as I was idly surfing the Net looking for supply of individual Bernina Express carriages. As you know the 5 car powered set by Kato has the Allegra EMU 'Friedrich Hennings' plus two carriages, Car 4: Type Api 1304 - 1st Class panorama coach, and Car 5: Type Bps 2515 - 2nd Class panorama coach. I already have the 4 car add on set but wanted to find these two to use behind my ''Willem Jan Holsboer' EMU as well. No luck though.

I did note some weeks ago that AB Modellen did a Coop loco but this was, I think, their own mod and very pricey, as are all their mods, a fact I think you mentioned earlier.

I agree with you that Kato-Noch are taking the easy paint job/logo approach to their mods. It would be nice to see more complex editions, though my bugbear at the moment is the lack of other Rhb stock in general from any source. I would really like to see some GE 4/4 II's, earlier coaches, and of course a baby Krokodil. Oh yes, and a Swiss steam loco like Rhaetia. One day maybe.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 08:43:50 am
The 'irritated' feeling comes from the fact that, ideally,  what we need from  Kato is ready to run versions of the complex advertising liveries. The Kleine Rote is mainly red with lettering, Coop is mainly white with lettering, and Lazzerini was mainly yellow with some lettering.

Kato would better serve us if they produced the intricate such as 'RhB Team' or 'Hockey Club Davos' and particularly '20 Minuten'

Isn't that what 'you want', not what 'we need'? Quite different! The same factors that make the more intricate liveries harder to recreate for your average punter at home are also going to be relevant for Kato themselves. As they're not really aiming these at the serious modellers why bother to go to the hassle of making a hash of the more complex liveries!?

They're nice models, but not exactly an accurate hi-fidelity scale model, and surely if you want top quality RhB models you look to Bemo, who tend to be very responsive on all the advertising liveries.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 09:17:35 am
The 'irritated' feeling comes from the fact that, ideally,  what we need from  Kato is ready to run versions of the complex advertising liveries. The Kleine Rote is mainly red with lettering, Coop is mainly white with lettering, and Lazzerini was mainly yellow with some lettering.

Kato would better serve us if they produced the intricate such as 'RhB Team' or 'Hockey Club Davos' and particularly '20 Minuten'

Isn't that what 'you want', not what 'we need'? Quite different! The same factors that make the more intricate liveries harder to recreate for your average punter at home are also going to be relevant for Kato themselves. As they're not really aiming these at the serious modellers why bother to go to the hassle of making a hash of the more complex liveries!?

They're nice models, but not exactly an accurate hi-fidelity scale model, and surely if you want top quality RhB models you look to Bemo, who tend to be very responsive on all the advertising liveries.

An interesting viewpoint re the liveries but one i must say I can't agree with, particularly as complex Rhb model logo printing will be no more difficult for Kato/Noch than anything else they currently produce, and they don't make a 'hash' of them any more than many other manufacturers do.

Also, as I am currently looking to increase my Rhb and other Swiss metre gauge stock,  I thank you for for the heads up to Bemo but I must confess I am struggling to find anything other than diesel railcars by them in N Gauge for Swiss items, and nothing at that scale for Rhb. Can you point me to a supplier. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 09:42:56 am
Bemo are HOm, rather than N. But my point is that the Kato models aren't N either, they're arbitrarily scaled up to 1:160, meaning they almost lose their narrow gauge proportions.

Of course there's a level of risk associated with more detailed liveries, the resolution of the printing becomes an issue. Looking at "20 minuten" there's a lot of very fine writing which may not recreate nicely in N gauge. Hornby said they wouldn't do First Great Western's "local lines" livery due to the inability to get the tiny writing to look right.

It may not be a reason at all, but IMO to expect a manufacturer to only produce the most complex liveries is to miss the point somewhat.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 10:14:41 am
Okay, sadly another avenue to find good metre gauge Swiss stock closes for me. Ah well, I enjoyed the look at Bemo's HO stuff, particularly the Krokodil kit.

I accept that complexities at small scale may be a little lost or overly simplified, but my skills are such that even a poor representation is better than what I could produce. In truth, what i am looking for are memories and nostalgia on a layout, so a loco I have had personal contact with means more than most, and it is the ones in real life that stand out from the crowd that get noticed more. So if a model manufacturer produces that stand-out livery, accurately or not, I may well choose it if it has a meaning for me.
I believe that memory and meaning is the driving force behind Kato's marketing of its European range, given the high number of Japanese tourists I've met on my travels in Switzerland eager to buy a souvenir.  Marketing to Europe, and worldwide, is I suspect an afterthought in some respects.
Even those liveries that have been produced by Kato are often as not a short-lived identity for the real locos involved, so I am hopeful that, over time and with push from Noch, more liveries,  complex or not, are sure to appear from Kato. Maybe some will have meaning for me for both past and future memories.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 10:43:29 am
Okay, sadly another avenue to find good metre gauge Swiss stock closes for me. Ah well, I enjoyed the look at Bemo's HO stuff, particularly the Krokodil kit.

I accept that complexities at small scale may be a little lost or overly simplified, but my skills are such that even a poor representation is better than what I could produce.

I'm sure that's the case for virtually of us without a tampo printer and lots of patience! But can you really imagine Kato releasing a "poor representation" of a loco, when they have literally dozens of other liveries they could go at without any such complexity? 99% of people will rather have an excellent representation of an ostensibly simple livery, rather than a bad representation of a more complex one. I reckon the number of people repainting these locos will be countable on one hand! It's a niche of a niche of a niche!

Like I say, they're nice, I imagine Kato are surprised by the success, AFAIK they were done for the 'train set' Japanese tourist market (hence the weird scale, colossal gap between coaches, only offering the Glacier Express coaches etc). It'll be interesting to see how far they expand the range. Swisscom was probably my favourite, with the skier.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on October 19, 2016, 10:56:48 am
A while back a member mentioned to me that Zentralbahn were discussing with Kato a set of their modern stock - of course only one livery possible - anyone heard any more about that.

Years ago I was chatting to the folk who run MITV and made all the excellent Swiss railway videos - they spent a lot of time over there and had many railway friends - but were permanently exasperated at the inability of the various railways to see the possibilities of merchandising.

Personally I can only recall Arosa station having some Arosa Bemo stock.  Full marks to Kato and I hope they keep expanding the range.

Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 10:58:59 am
There's an LGB GE 4/4 iii at the worksite adjacent to the new Albula tunnel. Would be good to have a proper layout somewhere!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 11:32:49 am
Yes, Kato do a good job, such as it is, and judging by the fact that a German retailer does lots of mods on their Rhb stuff - new motors, interiors, even new improved motor enhancements - and even a GE4/4 in MOB livery and two 'representative' coaches - there is a fair demand in Europe for Swiss outline.

Sadly outside of Kato such as is produced is mainly restricted at N Gauge to SBB mainline stuff and until the likes of Fleischmann take greater notice of the demand then Kato is what we have to deal with. I like the fact that they are noting the issues with their products, such as the introduction of the Allegra with close coupling as standard, and the availability of close coupling kits for other stock such as the GE.
And there is a demand in Switzerland itself. In Buellers shop in Interlaken when I have visited and enquired on this very subject I have been repeatedly told "We often get asked that." I firmly believe there is a large worldwide market waiting, waiting.

I also heard of the possibility of Zentralbahn stock - a much travelled line by me and SWMBO - but I believe it came to nought. Gordon may have better knowledge on that.

Now if we can just have a good manufacture producing the MOB, MZB, Jungfraubahn and Wengeneralpbahn stuff (the list is longer), including cog wheel locos and track - then I shall quit this life a happy happy man.

Okay, dream over. :D
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 11:59:36 am
I'm not so sure there is a huge untapped market myself. The layouts don't need to be very space hungry - it's not like you get a 4-track main line with 50 wagon freights. HOm is just vastly more popular for Swiss narrow gauge. I wonder if Zm would be more popular than Nm, or even using Z gauge track.

Kato stuff isn't the answer for the serious modeller, it looks a bit daft next to mainline Swiss stuff (as it's the same size), whilst HOm looks right next to HO (as it would). I love the idea of doing a decent Swiss HO/HOm layout, but I don't think the Kato stuff is really going to have the breadth of appeal to make it a viable prospect for a huge range.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 08:01:43 pm
HOm available items look great, especially for Rhb, and also I note MOB and some FO/BVZ. However, the problem(s) for me are essentially threefold: cost; space; and practicality.

Cost: HOm is simply beyond my budget in the long term as the price of individual items is much greater than similar at N scale.

Space: I only have a limited space available for a layout so at HOm I would be greatly reducing the extent and scope of any plans I might have. In short, I could not achieve the desired effect.

Practicality: I have a desire to depict both metre gauge and standard gauge running on the same layout. However - back to cost again - I  cannot justify the expense of having two separate track gauges in the same layout, thus denying me the possibility of running a particular loco or set on all of the available rail length. Okay, so accuracy is lost, but life is a compromise and this is one compromise I would need to make. Of course I would also be really struggling with factor 2, practicality, if I took the two-gauge approach.

As far Z or Zm: what! With these tires old eyes! :o Well, the one of them that works properly.  :D

So it's Kato for me for now with its compromise of metre gauge Rhb stock running on standard gauge tracks, and maybe some SBB from Fleischmann when I can afford the RE460 'My Switzerland' (if I can still find one) and a few other goodies I have my eye on.

Or am I dreaming again?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 20, 2016, 06:41:17 am
I'm still confused what makes you the voice of the people. I may want specific liveries. Their complexity isn't entirely relevant. I don't need anything. It's a toy train. You're still telling me what I need though.

I will appraise a purchase on the strength of whether I want the product. Clearly  there are a number of factors in that decision, chief among yours is the complexity of that livery. Not mine. 

I've not seen an exhibition layout using the Kato stuff yet, admittedly I've not actively looked beyond the exhibitions I've visited, and the forums. Would be interested to if you have some links though?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on October 23, 2016, 12:48:12 am
NEW

Electric locomotive Ge4/4 III 641 coop, RhB, N-gauge

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/941-231016004754.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=44784)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 23, 2016, 09:40:45 am
Thanks RG for the great image of one of the new 4/4 liveries announced recently. Here's the other, 'Die kleine rote":

(http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/article_data/images/36/269049_b.jpg)

Both images nicely show the usual good attention to detail and quality Kato  manages to bring to these fine models. Shame about the lack of close couplers that I would have hoped Kato would be fitting as standard now instead of supplying as  a conversion kit. Maybe both types are included in the package. Hope so.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on October 23, 2016, 11:56:53 am
Thanks RG for the great image of one of the new 4/4 liveries announced recently. Here's the other, 'Die kleine rote":

([url]http://www.suter-meggen.ch/Spur%20N/kato/sortiment/bilder/7074040_900.jpg[/url])

Both images nicely show the usual good attention to detail and quality Kato  manages to bring to these fine models. Shame about the lack of close couplers that I would have hoped Kato would be fitting as standard now instead of supplying as  a conversion kit. Maybe both types are included in the package. Hope so.


Isn't this an Horribly Oversized model??
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 23, 2016, 12:33:33 pm
That one certainly looks like a Bemo one.

How much do the close couplers compromise the clearance on curves?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 23, 2016, 12:38:41 pm

Isn't this an Horribly Oversized model??

Yep! Seems my attempt to post the right image went wrong not once but twice. :doh:

Just blame the drugs! :D

I've corrected it now in the original post. Thanks for the heads up RG. :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 23, 2016, 12:44:38 pm

How much do the close couplers compromise the clearance on curves?

At present I am still waiting a delivery of close coupler sets so I can't comment on the GE 4/4's, but those that came factory fitted to my Allegra EMU are presenting no clearance problems even on Kato's rather over-tight 150mm radius curves. On greater radii there are of course no issues.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 25, 2016, 11:46:17 pm


How much do the close couplers compromise the clearance on curves?

Zero. Everything is designed to go round the 183 radius, even the 150 although it starts to look a touch unprototypical round the 150

The close couplers come with sets of shorter inter-coach gangway 'bellows' so that, once one has both Arnold and close couplings available,  one has a choice of using :

Arnold type couplings with a 'long' bellows' on each coach
close couplings with short bellows on one coach and long bellows on the other coach
Close couplings with short bellows on each coach (best for the tightest radius)



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on October 29, 2016, 07:12:19 pm
DM-Toys list 3 variants

https://www.en.dm-toys.de/liste/items/Kato_7074039/bahngesellschaft/privat.html (https://www.en.dm-toys.de/liste/items/Kato_7074039/bahngesellschaft/privat.html)

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 31, 2016, 12:41:23 am
DM-Toys list 3 variants

Yes, that's right. Three versions are currently available from various retailers, but only Co-op and Die Kleine Rote are new releases:

The sequence of release can be be seen from the reference numbers, they go up in sequence; the 'Die Kleine Rote' 650 ref 7474040 being their 'latest' release (although actually at the same time as the Co-op. ie a few days ago)

The 641 'Bernina Express' was released earlier in the year (hence the lower ref number 7074037

The missing ref number 7074038 was the 'Lazzerini' yellow livery version that sold out quickly earlier this year - a subject that we have already discussed earlier this year.




.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on November 02, 2016, 11:44:04 am
close couplers available here

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-28-186-close-coupler-set-for-glacier-express (http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-28-186-close-coupler-set-for-glacier-express)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34824.msg405548#msg405548 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34824.msg405548#msg405548)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 03, 2016, 12:03:03 am
close couplers available here


Only problem is this is another Japanese retailer, so the usual UK Post office inbound charges risk applies.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 03, 2016, 08:15:31 am
You mean HMRC charges? They're under £15, so exempt.

May I ask why the full stop after every post?





.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on November 03, 2016, 07:32:06 pm
Grammar?  :confused1:.

 Sorry if got the wrong end of the stick.

Weave,  :beers:.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on November 03, 2016, 07:46:11 pm
Grammar?  :confused1:.

 Sorry if got the wrong end of the stick.

Weave,  :beers:.

I think njee means the odd one that sits all lonesome like about four lines beneath the post text. Like this



.

 :D

It's an odd point. ;D. Or is it a point of order? Whatever it is, you could say Gordon has a point. :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on November 03, 2016, 07:52:31 pm
Ah yes, I see now.

Thank you daffy.

That's not a full stop, it's a space station.

I'll get my glasses, coat and go to the pub  :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 05, 2016, 12:35:09 am
You mean HMRC charges? They're under £15, so exempt.

No, I mean the (cheekily applied) post office or parcel force  charges. Whenever I have received purchases from Japan, I have had to visit, in person - and therefore not always convenient as the venues are often hidden deep in industrial estates - the postal office site to pay the post office or parcel force 'handling fee'. This has never been a customs fee.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 05, 2016, 12:38:23 am
I think njee means the odd one that sits all lonesome like about four lines beneath the post text.

Correct. I do it because I find that otherwise the last sentence of the post can become jumbled up with the various footer items that get automatically attached to posts.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 05, 2016, 12:52:44 am
as members probably know from previous posts I did a home repaint to create a Coop loco. Now (as so often when us modellers do a scratch or kit build only for it to be followed by a ready to run issue) I'm feeling a little deflated.

Decided to purchase the Co-op livery lok and it arrived today.

Very nice.

Compared to my repaint it has the big advantage of a professional paint job, which has been executed superbly, and especially the name and town shield and solebar lettering which was impossible to create tidily for my repaint.

Kato box carries 'normal' Kato style card insert with Kato branding and cat number 'Kato 7074039' but with additional Noch branding on the bottom only, plus the box has two small Noch stickers slapped on two sides of the exterior with cat number  'Noch 74039'

I now plan to re-repaint my Co-op into another 'easy' livery - probably the all over green 'A&M AG'. 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 05, 2016, 07:03:43 am
There will only be a Post Office/Parcelforce "handling fee" (which I agree is a pain) when there are import charges due. They don't arbitrarily charge fees on all items from overseas. As these are below the threshold for duty, they will also be exempt from the associated handling fees.

It's often pot luck whether you're charged anyway, although far less common to get away with it these days.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on November 05, 2016, 08:22:55 am

Decided to purchase the Co-op livery lok and it arrived today.

Very nice.

Compared to my repaint it has the big advantage of a professional paint job, which has been executed superbly, and especially the name and town shield and solebar lettering which was impossible to create tidily for my repaint.

Kato box carries 'normal' Kato style card insert with Kato branding and cat number 'Kato 7074039' but with additional Noch branding on the bottom only, plus the box has two small Noch stickers slapped on two sides of the exterior with cat number  'Noch 74039'

Thanks for the detail Gordon on your nice new loco. Was this from one of the German retailers such as DM-toys or AB Modellen?
I'm thinking of oredering Die Kleine Rote before Christmas so would be interested in costs and charges incurred.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 05, 2016, 11:04:47 am
Germany being in the EU means no additional charges. Only relevant for non-EU purchases, for now!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on November 05, 2016, 11:20:08 am
Germany being in the EU means no additional charges. Only relevant for non-EU purchases, for now!

My post was too vague as what I meant was the p&p charges and loco cost.  :)
Suppose I should have just looked them up, but for some reason I keep getting 'cannot connect to server' this morning. Took me 5 tries just to post this. Heigh ho! Ain't t'internet lovely! >:(
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 07, 2016, 12:53:47 am
Was this from one of the German retailers?

Yes, from Germany

I don't buy from AB as their system is far too complex, and I'm not keen on their pricing.

For the others, it is best to shop around as there are so many good German retailers and their deals are very varied and one person's favourite shop might not be another's.

I always research the catalogue number of a desired item first, then , separately, do an internet search for the make and cat number eg 'Faller 745677'

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 07, 2016, 07:02:06 am
 And use Google.de to search just German retailers.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on November 07, 2016, 08:56:40 am
Thanks to you both. :)

Just like the UK then - good and bad deals abound on different days.

I had noted AB seem rather expensive, though their PDF pages are interesting to see details of what's available, spares etc.

I'll keep checking .de and .ch sites until I see a total price I like - I'm in no hurry other than to keep ahead of another possible price hike given the fluidity of the financial markets.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 08, 2016, 01:48:28 am
And use Google.de to search just German retailers.

I tend to leave the search more open in case there are cheap deals from, say, a Spanish retailer. I got some great deals on Minitrix SNCF and DB N wagons a few years ago from Spain -  and - when one arrived with me faulty (sealed in original packaging but on opening found the plastic to be warped out of shape) it was replaced without question or request for the defective one to be returned, so I got a  new wagon and some free spare parts!

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 09, 2016, 11:42:21 am
Using a local Google site doesn't limit results to being from that country (unless you actively select that), it just means it prioritises them. Just as you get some European results when you search Google.co.uk.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on November 10, 2016, 02:38:13 pm
close couplers available here

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-28-186-close-coupler-set-for-glacier-express (http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-28-186-close-coupler-set-for-glacier-express)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34824.msg405548#msg405548 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34824.msg405548#msg405548)

The couplings have arrived safely yesterday , nothing to pay, registered post ( cheap air post ISTR)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/941-101116143448.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=45344)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 01, 2017, 01:16:04 pm
Ge4/4 II, "Albula" mk3 and passenger coaches on their way in 2018 (http://media.noch.de/filestore/1/1/5/5/4_86f0937cba7be48/11554_5a896b62c52fefc.pdf).

Edit: Page 34/35
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 01, 2017, 03:14:22 pm
Thanks njee,  :thumbsup:looks like something to look forward to in the second half of 2017 for the Einheitswagen (EW 1) carriages and the Ge 4/4 III in the livery of '100 Jahre Albula und Ruinaulta', and Spring 2018 for the Ge 4/4 II in what looks like either red or green livery. Looking forward to the EW I's and the 4/4 II especially.

Details are on pages  34 and 35 of the PDF of Nochs new stuff for 2017 that the link takes you to.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on February 01, 2017, 03:59:00 pm
Am I correct in thinking the  EW 1 coaches are the same as used on the Berner Oberland Bahn ?

Anyone have any hint that they might be produced in BoB livery or is that unrealistic ?

Thank
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 01, 2017, 04:01:50 pm
Very unrealistic I imagine. The Kato RhB range was designed for the Japanese Tourist market, and has been expanded after proving an unlikely success. Don't expect this to mean Kato are doing some weird Nm hybrid of all narrow gauge railways now.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 01, 2017, 04:59:27 pm
Details in English re the Kato/Noch new Ge4/4 III:

KATO - 100 Years ALBULA and RUINAULTA

Quote
Ge 4/4 III Rhätische Bahn® Locomotive

For 100 years the RhB is operating the line from Reichenau to Ilan. The 19 km (12 mile) long line through the deep, narrow Upper Rhine valley (Ruinaulta) crosses 14 bridges and drives straight through 3 tunnels. Today, it remains one of the masterpieces of railway engineering. 2003 the Albula line, with its remarkable helical tunnels (to gain altitude) and vertiginous bridges, including the famous Landwasser Viaduct, also celebrated its 100th founding year. To celebrate these anniversaries, Ge 4/4 III No. 642 was repainted and lettered with a stylized rendering of the Albula line which gave this loco the nickname »Spaghetti Loco«. It's a special loco, deserving a special place on your layout.

Expected release: Second half year 2017

Model Features:
Minimum accessible radius: R150
Maximum gradient: 5 %
Digitization with Digitrax-Decoder Ref. 70DN63K4A (not included)
Short coupler mounted (Standard accessory Arnold Coupler 2 pcs.)
Operating headlights
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 01, 2017, 05:05:13 pm
Now found an English version of the Noch new items release notes

http://www.noch.com/en/catalogue/2017/new-items/files/mobile/index.html#34 (http://www.noch.com/en/catalogue/2017/new-items/files/mobile/index.html#34)

I'm finding it a bit flakey when loaded. :(

Try this indirect link:

http://www.noch.com/ (http://www.noch.com/)
 Then click on the 'New Items Leaflet' link at the left hand side of the page, not the 1/02/2017 ' Noch News item 2017' link.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 02, 2017, 12:40:25 am
I've been out at my model railway club this evening so missed this!

The irony is that I have been working on my Kato RhB stuff as my layout is now booked to be on show at Eurotrack Southampton at the end of February (and in Continental Modeller soon).

On it (grrrr) I have a batch of EWI and EWII coaches built from Shapeways kits...

To sum up:

The EWI coaches are planned for second half of 2017.
The Ge4/4III in another livery as number 642 when it carried the 100 jahre Albula... livery) (I believe the technical aspects to be no different from the foregoing), also for second half of 2017.
Ge4/4 II spring 2018 (another grrrr, Ive just finished knocking together my Shapeways version)

Note that 642 carried the Albula livery from 2003 - 2008, so can correctly be matched with the Glacier Express coaches (though only representing a time span of 2 years). Since 2008, 642 has carried the 'RhB Team' livery
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 02, 2017, 12:47:57 am
Am I correct in thinking the  EW 1 coaches are the same as used on the Berner Oberland Bahn ?
Anyone have any hint that they might be produced in BoB livery or is that unrealistic ?
Paul

Unrealistic.
The BOB coaches were a different variant of the narrow gauge EWI. The RhB (and some other lines) EW stock has the doors at the very ends of the vehicle. The type of EW used on the BOB (and other lines notably Brünig) is the version that is a straight replica of the 'full size' SBB standard gauge version, with the toilet cubicle and a small luggage space between the door vestibule and the coach end.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on February 02, 2017, 08:58:11 am
Hi Gordon,

Slightly off topic but can't make it to Alton this year but googled the Southampton Eurotrack show you mentioned.

Looks interesting. I know your exhibiting but would you recommend it. It's not too far for me but still a bit of a trek.

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 02, 2017, 11:25:32 am
Hi,
For those are interested in RHB , there are some new freight stake wagons by Pirata models (Italy) that can be seen on New 2017 catalogue, as shown in Nurnberg fair 2017.

http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download (http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download)

Greetings.

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on February 02, 2017, 12:08:04 pm
BoB................... darn, you are of course absolutely correct Gordon.

However its a compromise I might be prepared to live with, as this is not my prime hobby.
I like to have things correct but realistically life is starting to look a bit too short.

Is there anyone you can suggest who would produce a repaint or decals to re-brand the Rhb coaches ??

Many thanks
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 02, 2017, 12:50:39 pm
Hi,
For those are interested in RHB , there are some new freight stake wagons by Pirata models (Italy) that can be seen on New 2017 catalogue, as shown in Nurnberg fair 2017.

[url]http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download[/url] ([url]http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download[/url])

Greetings.

Marco


Many thanks Marco. :thumbsup:

Good to see the RhB stuff including the ABe 4/4 III , but also happy to see Art.2130 and its mate Art.2131 -
Quote
SBB TM IV diesel locomotive - Red blue livery - SBB Cargo logo. Finely detailed model body is made of resin with photo etched detail

  :)

Catalogue saved and website bookmarked. :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 02, 2017, 10:20:31 pm
Hi,
For those are interested in RHB , there are some new freight stake wagons by Pirata models (Italy) that can be seen on New 2017 catalogue, as shown in Nurnberg fair 2017.

[url]http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download[/url] ([url]http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download[/url])


It's right Daffy.. :beers:

Greetings.

Marco


Many thanks Marco. :thumbsup:

Good to see the RhB stuff including the ABe 4/4 III , but also happy to see Art.2130 and its mate Art.2131 -
Quote
SBB TM IV diesel locomotive - Red blue livery - SBB Cargo logo. Finely detailed model body is made of resin with photo etched detail

  :)

Catalogue saved and website bookmarked. :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 03, 2017, 02:06:03 am
Look good, like the mk2. Just need to sort the decals!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 03, 2017, 09:31:05 am
Nice models Gordon :thumbsup:, but not a route I would follow. :no:

I shall stick to r-t-r, at least until I have a lot more experience. :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 04, 2017, 12:42:31 am
My layout now scheduled to appear at Eurotrack in a couple of weeks, and in Continental Modeller.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 05, 2017, 01:05:33 am
Time for a heads up:

Adding the latest announced models, by 2018, Kato will have issued a total of 16 different models (usual disclaimers apply!):

Ge4/4III - 8 versions
Allegra 3-car EMU - 2 versions (different running numbers)
Glacier Express 2006 design coaches - 2 versions
Bernina Express coaches
EWI (as just announced)
Ge4/4II (2 versions just announced)

8 versions of the Ge4/4III are/will have been available. In brackets in the list below are the date periods during which the locos ran in this livery on the RhB. Those who like time period realism on layouts  should note some of the dates carefully as some combinations will be unrealistic, for example Heidiland Bernina should not run with the Glacier Express coaches as the latter have only run since 2006. This may explain why it has sold less well than the Lazzarini issued at the same time. Also, most obviously the three 'duplicated' locos with the same number shouldn't really be operating at the same time.

641 Heidiland Bernina Express (1995-98)
641 Co-op (1999 - today) BUT the 'fruit and veg' picture  changed in that time
642 Albula / Ruinalta 100 (2003-08)
644 plain red (1994-95 and 2011-12)
644 Lazzarini yellow (2013 - today)
650 Die Kleine Rote (2000 - 2006)
650 Unesco (2007 - today)
651 Glacier on Tour (2005 - today)

As there are only 12 loks in the class, that's not bad!

Finally a couple of other things to note:

I have looked at the possibility of modifying the Allegra 3-car into the 4-car S-Bahn version, but although at first glance it might seem easy, the window/door etc arrangements would require quite a few quite complex modifications.

The new universal driving trailers are very similar to an Allegra coach so Kato may well choose to do one, similarly the AGZ.






.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 05, 2017, 07:03:37 pm
Thanks, a nice summary Gordon, but you inadvertently missed one current Kato model:

650 Die Kleine Rote -  I see from online photos that 650 'Seewis im Prättigau" in carried the Die Kleine Rote livery in 2003-2005, though perhaps you can enlighten on the full date range for this livery.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 07, 2017, 01:03:08 am
Thanks, a nice summary Gordon, but you inadvertently missed one current Kato model:

650 Die Kleine Rote -  I see from online photos that 650 'Seewis im Prättigau" in carried the Die Kleine Rote livery in 2003-2005, though perhaps you can enlighten on the full date range for this livery.

Realised too late that I'd missed that one - just proves the point as to how expansive the range is getting, although the time spans for duplicated numbers is a problem for time-realistic layouts.

The other problem is that I (and my mate also) started working with this Kato GEX stuff as a 'new modelling challenge'. Now that so much is going to be available off the shelf the 'modelling' aspect is diluted for some poeples' tastes.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 07, 2017, 07:23:57 am
Reeeeally?

I'm sure there's enough you can do to maintain "modeller" status - you've complained on here that Kato aren't doing the liveries "we need", so you can't now complain that it's becoming too easy.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 18, 2017, 10:09:25 pm
Hi

I am new to the forum, but have been a railway modeller for some forty years. Now currently modelling N gauge, a couple of years ago I started following the RhB in N. I used to model it in HOm but it got too expensive. I model it in Nm which is not as difficult as you think. I have modified seven GE 4/4 IIIs, two Allegras and various coaches. I have also done a Shapeways ABe 4/4 III railcar using the Tomix chassis as recommended but with wheels from a Kato Allegra re-gauged to Nm - no problem with the gear meshing. I also buy various items from AB Modell. Michael is very helpful, he does supply decals for coaches and also supplied decals for my ABe 4/4 III railcar. Just email him, he accepts PayPal and usually I get the items within 3 or 4 days. Hopefully I will post some photos in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Sprintex on February 18, 2017, 10:22:14 pm
I'd be very interested to see these as it's something I've thought of doing myself, modelling the RhB in Nm :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 19, 2017, 01:46:48 am
Yep, I'd also be interesting to see that, as the gauge inaccuracies annoy me on the Kato stuff.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 07:58:24 am
Here's a link to a site that shows you how to convert N to Nm on both the Kato GE4/4 and Allegr.
 http://www.rhb-nm.ch/tips-tricks/kato-glacier-express/umspuren/ (http://www.rhb-nm.ch/tips-tricks/kato-glacier-express/umspuren/)
Its not a difficult as you think, you just have a lot of filing to do along with some careful shaving with a sharp knife.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 09:45:04 pm
Here are some photos of my Kato GE 4/4 IIIs. All have been fitted with Micro Trains Z scale couplers  and AB Modell etched handrails a little detail that makes all the difference. They are easy to fit as you can get a drilling jig to drill the holes in exactly the right places. Locos are displayed on Rokuhan Z track.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-190217214426.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48828)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 09:46:39 pm
Here is 641
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-190217214634.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48829)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 10:09:28 pm
Here is 646. Decals are by AB Modell. To change the number, carefully rub the old number and name with Brasso metal polish wadding. It will remove them quite easy but be careful not to rub too hard or too big an area, you do not want to remove any of the silver lower body line. After applying the new decals, seal the model with varnish, I use Humbrol satin varnish from an aerosol.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-190217220923.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48830)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 10:12:42 pm
Here is a head on view of 646 showing how much better the Z scale track looks.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-190217221235.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48831)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 20, 2017, 09:10:13 pm
Here is the RhB ABe 4/4 III railcar. Body is 3D printed from A/K Models on Shapeways. Chassis is a Tomix TM-05R as recommended - I used Kato Allegra wheelsets re-gauged, these fitted perfectly as the Tomix ones are not suitable to re-gauge. The body just clips onto it. Ploughs are spares from Kato GE 4/4 purchased separately, front hoses etc are a mix of Kato and Dapol. Handrails on front are made up and soldered from brass wire. Kato pantographs fitted. Windscreen wipers are left over from a Linea Model E402 kit. Decals are by AB Modell. Micro Trains Z scale couplers.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-200217210950.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48896)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 20, 2017, 09:31:03 pm
Impressive. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 21, 2017, 09:53:32 pm
Here's a freight wagon. AB Modell Kp.w 7501. Built from an etched nickel-silver kit, complete with wheels, decals and couplers. Easy to construct, mostly fold up with minimal soldering. The container is also easy to construct being a simple fold up box for the majority of it. Again, some soldering is necessary. The photo is a bit cruel as the wagon is only 50mm long.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-210217215552.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48916)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on March 08, 2017, 06:56:12 pm
Here is 644. More of a top view to show the extra paint details such as the white panels by the side of the pantographs and the yellow on the end of the pan head. Again, handrails by AB Modell and re-gauged otherwise out of the box.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/5966-080317185603.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=49351)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on March 08, 2017, 06:58:49 pm
Here is 650 in the UNESCO livery featuring the Landwasser Viaduct. Roof details etc painted and handrails by AB Modell. This is number eight in my collection of kato GE 4/4 IIIs
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/5966-080317185841.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=49352)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: 47 years N on April 08, 2017, 07:58:28 pm
I could not throw myself at Kato RhB without them producing "normal" coaches. THEY HAVE ANNOUNCED EW1s  :bounce:

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10459903 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10459903)

Sorry I see this has already been covered but a search for EW1 failed to find a mention on this thread.  Good news that the older electric locomotive will be available next year.  :searchingsign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: 47 years N on April 09, 2017, 03:48:56 pm

I have looked at the possibility of modifying the Allegra 3-car into the 4-car S-Bahn version, but although at first glance it might seem easy, the window/door etc arrangements would require quite a few quite complex modifications.

The new universal driving trailers are very similar to an Allegra coach so Kato may well choose to do one, similarly the AGZ.






.

I have the drawings for the Allegra s bahn version and it is longer as it does not traverse the Bernina!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on April 11, 2017, 01:07:28 am
For the reasons previously mentioned I have ruled out a conversion - I just run my 3 Allegras.

I plan to follow up my forthcoming articles in Continental Modeller with some train formation articles - for which I was able to make useful observations from a stay on the Albula line last week.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on April 11, 2017, 01:17:56 am

Sorry I see this has already been covered but a search for EW1 failed to find a mention on this thread. 

yes, messages #92 - #99 covered the Kato announcement of EWI

Your search for 'EW1' may have failed because most of the mentions in this thread are rendered as either EW 1, or the notation I use (which is the Swiss official style) using roman numerals - ie EWI

And there are also the Shapeways EWII and baggage vans which are easy to use


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on June 01, 2017, 05:44:02 pm
New loco version at Gaugemaster ( sit down before looking!

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K74039&style=&strType=&Mcode=Kato+7074039 (http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K74039&style=&strType=&Mcode=Kato+7074039)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on June 01, 2017, 08:24:21 pm
New loco version at Gaugemaster ( sit down before looking!

[url]http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K74039&style=&strType=&Mcode=Kato+7074039[/url] ([url]http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K74039&style=&strType=&Mcode=Kato+7074039[/url])


Did I have to sit down because it's 'currently in stock and available to ship'?  ;)

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on June 01, 2017, 08:32:49 pm
I bought my Co-op GE 4/4 from eBay from a lady in Italy. I paid £143.00 approx for the loco and £13.00 for DHL shipping - NEXT DAY SHIPPING! Yes, I ordered it on a Wednesday, shipped on the Thursday and I got it on the Friday morning. Hows that for service.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on June 01, 2017, 10:46:48 pm
Looks a better option!

Seller??
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 02, 2017, 12:36:56 am
New loco version at Gaugemaster ( sit down before looking!

To clarify:

This is not a new version.

I bought mine around 6 months ago

It is just that Gaugemaster have just got some (more?) in stock.

Current Modelbahnshop Lippe price is Euro 133 (approx £115) which is reasonable even at the '...xit' induced rubbish exchange rate.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 08:22:53 am
Looking on MSL website I can't see the price you quote Gordon. :hmmm:

It's been €159.00 there for some time.

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/KATO/36-2-005001-269048-0-0-0-36-10-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html (http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/KATO/36-2-005001-269048-0-0-0-36-10-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html)

Still better by far than Gaugemaster as MSL p&p is less than €4.00 with orders over €100.00.

I buy most of my Swiss themed items from Germany and delivery times are always good, usually three days from order to in my hand, and with good tracking info throughout from the likes of MSL and DM Toys.

It's thanks to Gordon that I got to know of the German sites, and I would recommend both those I mentioned, though DM Toys have a higher p&p rate that puts them slightly in the shade.

Re exchange rates - need to keep a strong lookout on these as they are changing daily. A few weeks ago I was achieving €1.193 to the £, but today it would be a shade under €1.14. For the loco in question, from MSL, that's a difference of £6.50! I've noticed the drop in rate since the election announcement, so it might  :hmmm: be worth waiting for a week or so to see how things fare. But as I have no crystal ball.......... ;)

Still, I think Metroman, that you got a good price and excellent service. As Railwaygun mentions, it would be nice to know the seller as all have their bargains from time to time and such good service is always sought after.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on June 02, 2017, 08:33:30 am
Hi daffy,

Your link to MSL shows 133 euros to me.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 09:07:43 am
 :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

Now that's just strange. :confused1: Here's a screen shot I've just taken of the page I get:


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/5634-020617090620.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=52377)

Could somebody post a link to the page they get at MSL showing €133 then I can ask MSL why I get what I do.

Edit at 9:30 - A screenshot would be better as I can send MSL both.
Is this a VAT thing, as my screenshot shows VAT inclusive and VAT at 20% on €133.00 gives a total of €159.60 - a close match to what I see. :hmmm:


Most perplexing.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on June 02, 2017, 12:18:14 pm
I am certain this has to do with the tax - maybe if a non-EU IP address is detected then the price without VAT is shown? €133.61 would be the deducted price for €159.00 without the 19% German VAT.
Am I the only one having trouble with the (basic) search function at Lippe? Searching for "Kato Ge" or "Kato 4/4" or "Kato RhB" didn't find anything. ::)  (The article number worked.)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 12:28:26 pm
I would agree Hiawatha if Gordon and Weave are accessing from outside the EU, though I'm not sure they are. Do you get the €159.00 price then?

I've sent an email to MSL and will detail their reply when I get it.

As for searching, I find it very precise, in that you have to put in the search term MSL recognises, which is not always the right one! For instance, it will find "Kato Rhb" but not "Kato RhB".

I have taken to searching by Gauge and then a wider term, like Kato, or SBB, or whatever and even then I often find things not so listed by accident. I think their search system needs improving, though I enjoy turning up the oddities.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ntpntpntp on June 02, 2017, 12:44:02 pm
Here you go: I'm getting the offering for Net export price not VAT incl.

This is from what should be recognised as a UK IP address


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/5885-020617124330.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=52378)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 12:49:42 pm
Thanks Nick. :thumbsup:

That does seem to explain it, though just why they should show that to,a UK IP remains a mystery. Perhaps when they answer my query we'll have an answer.

One of my bugbears is price comparisons where VAT is or is not included. Easy to get led down a garden path until you delve a little deeper.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: red_death on June 02, 2017, 01:06:42 pm
That does seem to explain it, though just why they should show that to,a UK IP remains a mystery. Perhaps when they answer my query we'll have an answer.

It depends on whether the IP address the website is genuinely a UK IP address and whether the website has access to a database that recognises it as such.

I know from our website that geolocation via IP address can be really hit and miss.  The surest solution is if the website knows who you are (eg via a cookie) and which you country you live in if you have an account, but that doesn't help if you use a different device or the cookie expires (or is blocked) etc.

It is annoying for both the user and shop owner!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on June 02, 2017, 01:18:01 pm
I also found MSL search utterly useless!

Having found the loco I also get €133, and when I go to my shopping basket it says:

Quote
ATTENTION!
The prices indicated here do not include VAT.

I agree with Mike it's annoying, but they're trying to be too clever, most (larger) webshops have a simple "where are you" flag which will define if VAT is included or not.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 02:30:23 pm
I guess reading the small print is just as important as it always was, but I agree they could make it simpler. After all, their main buyers will not be 'trade', as at places like Screwfix where it is commonplace to see ex-VAT prices, but as Mike points out, knowing where your prospective buyer resides is not straightforward or even possible unless you log in to an account or otherwise reveal your location. They should at least make the price indication more obvious - incl VAT or export price. At the moment it's, well, small print! :D

When logged in or not MSL obviously recognise my location accurately, so at least for me the prices are inclusive of VAT and I don't get any unwanted surprises.

Of course now I'm sulking cos I would have loved to buy a Ge 4/4 for only €133.00 inclusive of VAT.  :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on June 02, 2017, 03:03:19 pm
It's not small print to be fair, but it's only there when you get to the shopping basket, when it's in big bold lettering at the top. As some see the with VAT price then the bigger issue I think is that they're trying to infer people's location from the IP address, which demonstrably doesn't work!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 03:50:48 pm
It's small-ish print on the item page, right at the bottom of each price panel: either says "Net export price plus packing and shipping"  or "Incl. VAT, excl. packing and shipping". Easily overlooked.

Nice to know you get the big warning before you hit the pay button though.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 03, 2017, 12:34:08 pm
Reply from MSL this morning:


"If you incorrectly display US Dollar Net Travel, it may be because your browser is sending an incorrect language or country
name ("en-US").

You can resolve this issue by invoking the following URL:

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/home/setdefaultprice.asp (http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/home/setdefaultprice.asp)

This page uses a cookie which overrides the change of prices.

Best Regards

Thomas Schmitz"

__________________________________________

So that's that clarified. ;)



Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ntpntpntp on June 03, 2017, 01:37:28 pm
At home, trying the link with different browsers on the same (UK based and UK configured) Win10 PC:

Internet Explorer results in 159 Euros
Edge results in 159 Euros
Chrome results in 133 Euros

Interesting, maybe Chrome isn't sending quite the same browser agent info?   I use IE by default at home, but I use Chrome at work (where it also showed 133 euros)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on June 05, 2017, 12:47:14 am
It's not bizarre, it's that you're displaying an ex-VAT price, as discussed. Clicking your link I see €159. Whether you see €133 or €159 you will pay €159 once you get to the checkout, so it's a moot point.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on July 04, 2017, 05:12:42 pm
Picking up the earlier post by metroman64, here's my take on the same shapeways ABE 4/4 III (A/K models):


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-040717170328.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53130)

plus the Ge 4/4 II from A/K models:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-040717170449.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53131)

and a fleischmann industrial in mock RhB-ish mode: (with working head/tail lights at both ends)
 
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-040717170853.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53132)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-040717171007.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53133)

Now have another ABe 4/4 in the pipeline (they seem to come in pairs?), plus a Ge 4/4 I and Gem 4/4 from TT Trams on shapeways.

(PS my first post on this forum)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: RailGooner on July 04, 2017, 05:25:48 pm
Welcome aboard @fitzgreyve (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6197) . :wave: Very nice work on the 3D print. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on July 04, 2017, 07:21:08 pm
Watch this space, I have a Gem 4/4 in my workshop. This is a 3D bodyshell from Shapeways. Just waiting for the chassis so I can start. Decals have been specially printed by AB Modell for me.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on July 18, 2017, 12:29:01 pm
Watch this space, I have a Gem 4/4 in my workshop. This is a 3D bodyshell from Shapeways. Just waiting for the chassis so I can start. Decals have been specially printed by AB Modell for me.

I've just received mine ("TT Trams" on Shapeways), plus a Ge 4/4 I from the same. Just got to make my mind up on whether to use the Tomytec ED01 or TM03 chassis for the latter.

I'm just measuring up the GEm for a chassis  - any thoughts ? Also, I was wondering about how best to model the visible mid-chassis detail on this one, it's a bit complex for a first go at a  3D print.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on July 18, 2017, 09:41:36 pm
For the TT Trams Gem 4/4 chassis, I have used a Tomytec TM-21. Although it fits, the wheelbase is too long. The ploughs should be set back under the cab doors almost, but with this chassis, they are level with the cab front which affects the appearance. I am going to try a Tomytec TM-03 which has a slightly shorter wheelbase but only drives on one bogie. Again, it will be converted to Nm. I did convert the TM-21 to Nm, but it runs like a pig for some reason, the Tomytec chassis for my ABe 4/4 railcar runs like a dream! As for the space between the bogies, I have used plasticard and brass wire to simulate what is there, it is not 100% accurate but does the job in my opinion. Front end pipes are Dapol from an Ndetail1 set - N gauge diesel details.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on July 20, 2017, 01:34:08 pm
THanks Metroman - just to check we are on the same page, I got my (TT Trams) bodies printed at 1:150, but I'm sticking with  9mm track.

I have a spare TM-03 and while it fits the Ge 4/4 I body almost perfectly, the bogie centre dimension  seems too short for the Gem  - its 40mm, and by my calculation for the Gem it should be around 53mm in 1:150  (about 7.9 m in reality?). I was about to invest in a TM21, the bogie centre  >is< too long on that one at 56 mm.

interesting point on the snow plough position, I hadn't got that far. What ploughs are you using, I was about to invest in a pack of Kato ABe spares ?

I've printed my own transfers (on the above pics) using colour lazer printer (transfer stock from crafty computer paper)- the photos really exaggerate the outline of the transfer, which in reality is not that noticeable.

I also just picked up two red Kato GE 4/4/ III bodies (no windows) very cheap on Ebay.

 - Also noticed that TT trams on Shapeways has bodies for Tmf 2/2, Gmf 4/4 II, and Ge 6/6/ II - that last one will be very interesting to find a chassis for !
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on July 28, 2017, 08:17:38 pm
Hi fitzgreyve. I had mine printed in 1:150 scale as this matches the Kato stock. I tried a TM-03 under the Gem 4/4 but was too short. It is listed as a 12m chassis whilst the TM-21 is listed as a 14m chassis. No-one appears to do a 13m equivalent chassis. Therefore I will stick with the TM-21 until I can find a suitable chassis for it which can be converted to Nm. Ploughs are the spare Allegra ones available on eBay, just cut off the rear part and with mods I managed to fit it to the bogie using the Tomix sideframes with the extensions as these give somewhere to attach the ploughs to. Remember on the prototype, they are fixed to the bogies. I have ordered the Tmf 2/2 body and will try to mate it to a Kato 11-103 chassis. I have also received a TT Trams Gmf 4/4 II which I am looking for a chassis. Funnily enough, the GE 4/4 III chassis seems a close match! Anyway, my Gem 4/4 is currently in the paint shop so in the next couple of week hopefully it will be photographed and uploaded.
THanks Metroman - just to check we are on the same page, I got my (TT Trams) bodies printed at 1:150, but I'm sticking with  9mm track.

I have a spare TM-03 and while it fits the Ge 4/4 I body almost perfectly, the bogie centre dimension  seems too short for the Gem  - its 40mm, and by my calculation for the Gem it should be around 53mm in 1:150  (about 7.9 m in reality?). I was about to invest in a TM21, the bogie centre  >is< too long on that one at 56 mm.

interesting point on the snow plough position, I hadn't got that far. What ploughs are you using, I was about to invest in a pack of Kato ABe spares ?

I've printed my own transfers (on the above pics) using colour lazer printer (transfer stock from crafty computer paper)- the photos really exaggerate the outline of the transfer, which in reality is not that noticeable.

I also just picked up two red Kato GE 4/4/ III bodies (no windows) very cheap on Ebay.

 - Also noticed that TT trams on Shapeways has bodies for Tmf 2/2, Gmf 4/4 II, and Ge 6/6/ II - that last one will be very interesting to find a chassis for !
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on July 30, 2017, 05:00:24 pm
Thanks Metroman!

My latest Kato GE4/4 III just out of the paint shop (or more accurately "transfer shop"):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-300717165842.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53860)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on July 30, 2017, 09:19:09 pm
Nice decals fitzgreyve. Here are all nine of my Kato GE 4/4 IIIs (the first time they have all been together). The plain red ones are 644 (stock Kato), 645, 646 & 652 (all renumbered with AB Modell decals). The other five are standard Kato. All detailed with AB Modell handrails and regauged to Nm (6.5mm). Micro trains Z scale couplers fitted to all. Other two photos show some catenary I have assembled. Again from AB Modell, masts are Somerfeldt N, detail parts are N-Track.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/5966-300717205505.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53888)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/5966-300717205605.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53889)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/5966-300717205706.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53890)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/5966-300717205802.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53891)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 03, 2017, 01:42:05 am

Whoever invented 3D printing!

I have now effectively wasted many man hours starting to create things to go with the Kato (I'm still working with 9mm for simplicity BTW).

Here is just some of what I have wasted the hours on - the half converted / scratched efforts that can now go in the bin!

[li] carved up Glacier Express coach kitbash into NEVA driving trailer (although it looks as good as the 3D version
[/li][/list]


I have the Tmf on order
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 03, 2017, 01:55:11 am
Some of the new 3D stuff:


BDt NEVA
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817014410.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53970)

BDt 1721 series
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817014936.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53971)

Ge6/6II

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817015337.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53972)

Hopper
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817015451.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53973)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 03, 2017, 01:56:50 am
With the forthcoming Kato EWI, I've turned some of my Shapeways EWI into MGB


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817015646.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53974)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817015747.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53975)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on August 03, 2017, 11:50:36 am
Hi,
for you Rhb fans there is one person (Massimo Icardi) in the ASN italian association AmiciScalaN that makes a little production about Rhb called IchModels..Nm gauge.
Association website is www.amiciscalan.it (http://www.amiciscalan.it)

Cheers

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 07, 2017, 09:14:33 pm
Heres my model of the RhB Gem 4/4 #801. TT Trams body via Shapeways, Tomix chassis TM-21 re-gauged to Nm with Kato wheelsets. Ploughs are kato Allegra spares. Underframe equipment is a mix of plasticard bits and brass wire. Micro Trains Z scale couplings. Front pipes are a mix of Dapol N gauge spares and Kato. Pantographs are Kato Allegra spares. The bogie centres on the chassis are too far apart,  the ploughs should be set further back by about 4mm either end, but no-one does a 13m chassis. The TM-21 is a 14m one and the TM-03 is a 12m one but nothing in between! Decals are a custom order for me by Michael at AB Modell.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/5966-070817211359.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54117)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 22, 2017, 11:16:22 pm
Heres my model of the RhB Gem 4/4 #801


Very well done, looking good.

I'm new to Kato RhB. Just bought my first Allegra (plazajapan) plus some ABB decals from Germany.  Desperately looking for a GOT 651 shell or loco at the moment. I hope Kato will do a re-run, they are not easy to find. I know the starter packs are still available but to just get the GOT Ge4/4III 651, the shipping costs for the starter pack kills every deal out there.

Some interesting models on shapeways. What paint are you guys using for the RhB red ? Would SP Scarlet Red do the job ?

While they were still available I bought two spare Ge4/4III shells from Hobbysearch. One will become the green #647 A&M'AG one, working on the decals atm. (got the size, now I need to find the right fonts or I have to draw them)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-230817021613.jpeg)

As an old IceHockey fan back in Switzerland, "hating" the rivals HC Davos with a passion, #652 would be another 'nice to have'  ;)

cheers,
steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 22, 2017, 11:22:40 pm
My latest Kato GE4/4 III just out of the paint shop (or more accurately "transfer shop"):

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-300717165842.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53860[/url])


Well, well, well, how cool is that ? Very nice job.

I hope you don't mind me asking, decals ? Who designed them ? Is that your own work ? Looking very good. Do you have plans to make them available for others ? I am very interested to buy a set if you do. Wow, great job !

cheers,
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 23, 2017, 07:37:16 am
Hi retica. I use Santa Fe red, partly because I had some left over from my US modelling days. I am nearing completion of the TT Trams (Shapeways) Gfm 4/4 using a Tomix TM-10R chassis re-gauged as usual to Nm using Kato wheelsets. Decals are again a special order from AB Modell in Germany. If you need any decals for the RhB, try them, Michael will produce them if you ask him nicely, he as done them for my Gem 4/4 & BDt 4 as well. The yellow for my Gfm 4/4 is Accuflex Wisconsin Cream - the bottle is nearly 20 years old but still as good as the day I got it. Pictures for the Gfm 4/4 will follow in the next couple of weeks. With reference to the GOT 4/4 III, keep an eye on ebay, sometimes they get split from sets and appear. I got mine in a set, but I wanted the UNESCO one without the set. Plazajapan put a bodyshell on eBay a while back as a Kato spare and as I already has a spare pair of bogies, I purchased the chassis as a Kato spare and found a set of pantographs (they do not come with the bodyshells) and for about £70, I got a complete loco. I recommend fitting a set of AB Modell handrails as they vastly improve the appearance (make sure you get the hole drilling jig) and also replace the Kato couplers - I use Micro Trains Z scale knuckle couplers - they work a lot better.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 08:45:53 am
Hi retica. I use Santa Fe red

Good idea, didn't think of that one, or Amtrak red, comes close as well.

Yes, I know Michael, I bought a 125 Jahre ABB decal set from him for the Allegra. Decals are on the way, so is the Allegra from Japan, soon I will have lots of fun with huge decals.

I have my eyes on a GOT shell, bit pricey but better than a whole starter set.

Kato coupler ? Are you talking about the Rapido ones or the Kato short coupling ones ? I like the look of the Kato short coupler but will probably end up with the Micro Trains ones as well.

No decision made so far if I go N or Nm.

The handrails I will replace but I will use phosphor bronce wire and bend my own  ;)

cheers,
steve

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on August 23, 2017, 09:17:14 am

I hope you don't mind me asking, decals ? Who designed them ? Is that your own work ? Looking very good. Do you have plans to make them available for others ? I am very interested to buy a set if you do. Wow, great job !


Thanks for asking  - These are colour laser printed onto white waterslide paper from craftycomputerpaper.co.uk

I designed them myself, the side transfer is actually in two sections - the blue background plus everything except for the ibex head, and the ibex head on a separate overlay. The head is from a photo of the real loco, whereas the rest is created from scratch in Microsoft Visio (no preference, it's just what I have). The smaller text is pushing the limit of what is legible on the printer, even at (an alleged) 4800 dpi.

The whole body was first airbrushed blue, the sides are fully covered, but you need to match the ends up.

I found that cutting the transfer out, even with a brand new scalpel blade,  tends to "rag" the colour at the edges of the transfer- scissors worked far better.

The hardest part was  cutting out the windows - the transfers do stretch slightly on application and it's would be almost impossible to fully align them at this scale, so I didn't try and left the windows to be cut out once it had fully dried (using a scalpel, despite what I said above, you can see some white around the windows even after I've touched it up with paint after varnishing with humbrol matt cote.). Micro-set and micro-sol also used copiously!

The problem with DIY transfer printing is that there 'ain't no white ink, so you I  you have to start with a white transfer base and match the background colour. For the crest and numbers on the ends I printed out several versions with differing blue backgrounds - the blue paint I used was a mix of humbrol French blue (a bit too light) and midnight blue (definitely too dark) - if anything I got it a bit too dark.

The white carrier is thicker than the clear variant, but in reality not as visible as some of my pictures in this thread seem to show.

So, all in all, it's possible to do this with care, but somewhat fiddly. I've used this paper many times  before for full wagon sides (in OO gauge). A "huge" decal to me is one for a 4"x8" modular music synthesiser panel!

I'd be happy to do a set for anyone who wanted them at a nominal cost to cover materials and postage etc.  I'd probably provide two sets, as the risk of going wrong is quite high.

PS For my red RhB stock, I'm just using humbrol #19 -  but not too far off the RhB shade.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 10:15:43 am
I purchased the chassis as a Kato spare and found a set of pantographs (they do not come with the bodyshells) and for about £70, I got a complete loco.

Forgot to mention, I found 4 shells today on ebay, all red 644, no widows, no roof, just the bare shell, good for some more paint jobs and then buy the whole model and just exchange the shells. A bargain, £6 each including shipping. Let the fun begin.

cheers,
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 10:22:19 am
I designed them myself, the side transfer is actually in two sections - the blue background plus everything except for the ibex head, and the ibex head on a separate overlay.

I'd be happy to do a set for anyone who wanted them at a nominal cost to cover materials and postage etc.  I'd probably provide two sets, as the risk of going wrong is quite high.

Thanks for your answer. Two sections, very good, so I could print the light blue lines myself, plus all the lettering and put your Ibex head decal on top. Interesting.

I am very interested, if you could calculate how much including shipping to the other side of the world and I can pay with paypal, please send me a private message with the details. Thanks.

cheers,
steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 11:35:28 am
Just playing around with some other ideas at the moment and testing the possibilities if I actually can print them. I don't have all the spot colors left. Printing these colors would be definitely easier with a laser printer.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-230817112950.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-230817124409.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-230817124210.jpeg)


cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ntpntpntp on August 23, 2017, 03:06:14 pm
The problem with DIY transfer printing is that there 'ain't no white ink


It is a shame, it used to be possible (and affordable) - maybe still can if you can find one of the old Alps Microdry technology printers, though these are no longer in production and supplies of the ink cartridges are approaching the rarity of hen's teeth these days!

All the white lettering and phone graphics on this re-liveried Arnold unit were home-made waterslide decals on very thin clear carrier film. I made this back in 2005:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/5885-230817145759.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54430)

I suppose these days, one could consider something like an OKI colour laster printer for proofing etc. which support white toner, but they're around £2k, not the £70 I paid for my Microdry printer
http://www.oki.com/uk/printing/products/colour/graphic-arts/white-toner-series/pro7411wt/index.html (http://www.oki.com/uk/printing/products/colour/graphic-arts/white-toner-series/pro7411wt/index.html)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 08:32:00 pm
I suppose these days, one could consider something like an OKI colour laster printer for proofing etc. which support white toner, but they're around £2k, not the £70 I paid for my Microdry printer

Nice job on the decals.

The question with this OKI laser, does it support overlay printing. That is the good thing with the Alps (or OKI, Roland) Microdry printers, not only can you print white, silver and gold but you can print white first and then any other color on top without the paper leaving the printer so a red decal stays red even when applied on a dark blue shell. If it does support overlay that could be a good alternative (if I win lotto that is  ;) )

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ntpntpntp on August 23, 2017, 09:20:49 pm
The question with this OKI laser, does it support overlay printing. That is the good thing with the Alps (or OKI, Roland) Microdry printers

Good question. Mine's actually an old Citizen Printiva that was sold off on ebay by a hospital years ago. Doesn't natively support white but relabelling a white cartridge works fine. Always amazes me how accurate the registration is when it pulls the paper back in for the next pass.  I keep an old PC running on Windows ME as that has the best driver with the most overlay and spot colour options.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 10:04:02 pm
I keep an old PC running on Windows ME as that has the best driver with the most overlay and spot colour options.

Lucky find, a Microdry printer for £70  :thumbsup: nowadays if you're lucky to find a refurbished Alps MD 5000/5500, they go for up to US $1000 !

Edit: Just checked ebay, make that US $2000 for a new MD-5000i (?) or MD-5500  :laugh3:

 ;) Same here, an old Compaq laptop with a LPT1 port and windows XP installed as a print server. I've had Spot red, blue and green labelled #16 and changed the cartridge during a print job but that does not work anymore. The registration is slightly off after a new cartridge identification run. Solution was to label them cyan, magenta and yellow instead and use them this way, all good again. Now, where do I get a new orange cartridge from ? Would be handy for the riri scheme shown above.

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 24, 2017, 01:11:58 pm
I call this one PITA, that was a challenge to get that paint off (worst Kato shell ever so far).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-240817130909.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 25, 2017, 08:33:21 pm
The Gfm 4/4 is finally finished. Yellow is Accuflex Wisconsin Central cream!, Roof and grills are Accuflex Erie Lackawanna Grey, they look grey in photos, so opted for this colour even though I believe it should be silver. Underframe parts are fixed to the chassis - if they were fixed to the body, they would prevent the chassis from being removed. Chassis is usual Tomix TM-10R re-gauged to Nm using Kato wheelsets. Micro Trains Z scale knuckle couplers. Decals specially produced by AB Modell.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/5966-250817203151.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54514)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/5966-250817203313.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54515)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 25, 2017, 09:47:45 pm
The Gfm 4/4 is finally finished.

Looking good  8)

You mentioned Dapol parts you use to detail your models, what part numbers ?

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 25, 2017, 10:00:54 pm
You mentioned Dapol parts you use to detail your models, what part numbers ?

cheers
steve

The Dapol part number is NDETAIL1. The only place that has them at the moment is 2ktechnologies. They have their own website but also sell on ebay. They charge £8.99 for a set on eBay. I originally got them from Hattons who only charged £4.50 a set but they have been out of stock for a while. NDETAIL1 includes a total of 8 pipes, 2 snowploughs and two screw couplings. I only use the pipes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 25, 2017, 10:15:29 pm
They charge £8.99 for a set on eBay.

Yeah, not gonna happen, they also charge £16.99 for shipping !!   :laugh3:  I will have to use good old wire instead then.

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 26, 2017, 04:35:15 am
Working on the decals. Not 100% happy with the G, looks a bit fatter than the other letters. Found the right fonts, or very close, online for the other lettering, Pill Gothic 300mg.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-260817042954.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 28, 2017, 02:42:14 am
RhB Ge 4/4 I, the last four survivor. Anyone modeled one in 1:150 yet ?

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628315/ (http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628315/)

cheers,
steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 28, 2017, 12:20:58 pm
Not happy with the number font. I'm using Futura XBlk BT, need to find a narrower version of the same font.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-280817121731.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 29, 2017, 12:07:53 am
Yeah, excitement, I got my first Allegra this morning from Plaza Japan ! What a great looking little model. Unfortunately the excitement got immediately muddied down when I did a test run - how bloody noise are these models, especially at very low speed ? They must have a little bistro in it and constantly grind some fresh coffee !   :doh:
They seem all that loud (at least that is the impression I get from reading comments online), don't know why, Kato normally produces very smooth and silently running gear. Weird.
What are your experiences with Kato's Allegra ? 

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 29, 2017, 07:19:25 am
Yeah, excitement, I got my first Allegra this morning from Plaza Japan ! What a great looking little model. Unfortunately the excitement got immediately muddied down when I did a test run - how bloody noise are these models, especially at very low speed ? They must have a little bistro in it and constantly grind some fresh coffee !   :doh:
They seem all that loud (at least that is the impression I get from reading comments online), don't know why, Kato normally produces very smooth and silently running gear. Weird.
What are your experiences with Kato's Allegra ? 

cheers
steve

I've had the same problem, they are a bit noisy. AB Modell do a replacement motor kit using a Maxon motor which is ultra smooth. When time a nd funds permit, I will upgrade both of my Allegras
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on August 29, 2017, 02:18:32 pm
RhB Ge 4/4 I, the last four survivor. Anyone modeled one in 1:150 yet ?

[url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628315/[/url] ([url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628315/[/url])

cheers,
steve

Got one just waiting final paint cleanup  and then decals.  The TTtrams body on shapeways is somewhat lacking on roof detail, but I can always add that later.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:34:25 am
Regarding decals, do be aware that technically one requires permission from RhB
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:37:21 am

Good idea, didn't think of that one, or Amtrak red, comes close as well.


For the red I use Humbrol spray bright red or plastikote red from Wilkos!

The huge advantage of RhB stock being so clean and shiny is that one can use gloss paints with impunity.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:39:58 am


Forgot to mention, I found 4 shells today on ebay, all red 644, no widows, no roof, just the bare shell, good for some more paint jobs and then buy the whole model and just exchange the shells. A bargain, £6 each including shipping. Let the fun begin.

cheers,
steve

Ge4/4 III shells are also available in Shapeways

I was thinking of doing the A&M AG but it has proved short lived so I have abandoned the idea.


.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 30, 2017, 12:43:20 am
Regarding decals, do be aware that technically one requires permission from RhB

Yup, I've asked for permission, got a contract in pdf form, signed it and sent it back to the RhB.
No worries  ;)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:46:40 am
I was in RhB land all last week.

Three Ge4/4I doing stalwart work on the new Albula tunnel.

Sadly with only three loco diagrams on the Albula, RhB's policy of keeping loks on the same turns for long periods meant that from our holiday let (at Berguen) , we only saw Glacier on Tour, Unesco and RhB Team.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 30, 2017, 12:52:00 am
Ge4/4 III shells are also available in Shapeways

I was thinking of doing the A&M AG but it has proved short lived so I have abandoned the idea.

Not convinced yet about using shapeways shells to build locomotive models. Freight cars are ok. I do not like the balsa wood like surface of the prints. The black high res acrylic stuff is more to my like, not many model RR designers are offering their products in that medium yet.

I just like the simplicity of the design and the green stands nicely out amongst the red ones   ;)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:53:30 am
Ge4/4 III shells are also available in Shapeways

I was thinking of doing the A&M AG but it has proved short lived so I have abandoned the idea.

I saw the loco in its new blue and white livery but only from a distance whilst hiking Filisur - Wiesen.

.

Not convinced yet about using shapeways shells to build locomotive models. Freight cars are ok. I do not like the balsa wood like surface of the prints. The black high res acrylic stuff is more to my like, not many model RR designers are offering their products in that medium yet.

I just like the simplicity of the design and the green stands nicely out amongst the red ones   ;)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ohlavache on August 30, 2017, 07:55:20 pm
For information, RhB EW I coaches from Kato (in 1:150 over 9mm gauge tracks) are now available !
I've ordered mine from Hobby Search (1999.co.jp).
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 31, 2017, 12:55:10 am
My preordered Hobby Search EWIs have been shipped


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 31, 2017, 01:25:59 pm
Bent some .008 phosphor bronze wire. Not sure yet if I do the side ones as well.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-310817132023.jpeg)

If you want to bend your own, use this template. It will fit if you drill the two holes right at the end of the molded on handrail.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-310817133118.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on August 31, 2017, 03:21:11 pm
For information, RhB EW I coaches from Kato (in 1:150 over 9mm gauge tracks) are now available !
I've ordered mine from Hobby Search (1999.co.jp).
Mine have just been shipped from hobbysearch as well, together with  "albula 100th" GE 4/4 III.   :thumbsup:
Date for spare pantographs has gone from "August" to "after September"  :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on September 04, 2017, 02:06:12 am
Spring is here and I am getting more and more items to tinker with.

Four more RhB Ge4/4III shells.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-040917015951.jpeg)

And Allegra decals, ahyeah !

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-040917020147.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on September 15, 2017, 11:41:57 pm
My preordered Hobby Search EWIs have been shipped

Now arrived.

The shape and general allure of the coaches is superb, however:

1) there is a huge hole in the lower part of each end of each coach to cater for the couplings
2) the Rhätische Bahn lettering is not 100% perfect

As regards the 'coupling hole', there is a narrow slot that looks as if it was engineered for a slide in cover piece to be inserted instead of the coupling, but no such accessory is included.

At my club on Wednesday I was able to replicate in model form  the current standard Albula set of Ge4/4III,1st, 1st, DS van, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd - albeit that there are EWII in some rakes.

My Shapeways vehicles will have to be modified chassis-wise to fit in with the Kato coaches.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on September 23, 2017, 01:52:05 pm
Not wanting to steal Gordon's thunder, here some pics of the EWI's and the Albula 100th Ge4/4 III.

the ge 4/4 III, comes fitted with close couplers, arnold couplers provided.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134046.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56109)

EWI 1st Class:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134331.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56110)

and 2nd class:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134439.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56111)

the coupler pocket gap Gordon notes above:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134621.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56112)

The standard corridor connections are very short, here's the effect of adding a "long" connection removed from the glacier express.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134814.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56113)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134909.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56114)

Not clear what radius rhis will cope with though!
 
The EWI set comes with short couplers to convert a loco, but no explicit mention of putting arnold couplers on the coaches themselves, but I can't see that this would be an issue if needed
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on September 27, 2017, 01:19:48 am
the coupler pocket gap Gordon notes above:

The standard corridor connections are very short, here's the effect of adding a "long" connection removed from the glacier express.

Not clear what radius this will cope with though!

It's amusing that when the concept first started, it was Arnold couplers being exchanged for close couplers as an 'option'. Now the EWI pack comes with instructions to do the opposite in order to connect the EWIs with previous Kato vehicles with Arnold couplers!

It is not an issue for me because as I have been collecting from the very start, I now have a spares box full of Glacier Express coach bodies (Chassis used for the non GEX coach conversions and 3D), long corridor connections  (taken off the aforementioned GEX carcasses) short corridor connections and short couplers supplied in the original short coupling spares pack.

I have three GEX sets, one is fully close coupler fitted, one is fully Arnold coupler fitted, and the third is now incomplete as per above). Of my six Ge4/4III, most now have Arnold one end and close coupler the other. I retain Arnold couplers for connecting to my various wagon kitbashes.

BTW I intend to try sliding a piece of thin red plastic or card into the slot so that an EWI at the tail end of a train doesn't show the unsightly coupler
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on September 27, 2017, 01:34:00 am
Not wanting to steal Gordon's thunder, here some pics of the EWI's and the Albula 100th Ge4/4 III.


EWI 1st Class:

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134331.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56110[/url])

and 2nd class:

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134439.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56111[/url])



Note that these pictures only depict the latest livery versions.

Of the eight models issued, three (two 2nd and one 1st) are in the older livery with the thin silver stripe.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: 303 on September 28, 2017, 07:36:58 am
Wow, didn't noticed that. Nice one  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 03, 2017, 11:49:31 pm
here we are on my layout (which will be going to Boulogne sur Mer show  on November 4/5)



(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/704-031017234842.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on October 06, 2017, 08:35:35 pm
The reservation is now open for the Kato Ge4/4II locomotive on the Hobbysearch website.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495218 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495218)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 06, 2017, 09:19:21 pm
Thanks for the link Steve. :thumbsup:

The website has a wonderful translation of the details. :confused1: Auto translate systems always raise a smile. :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 07, 2017, 12:25:42 am
The reservation is now open for the Kato Ge4/4II locomotive on the Hobbysearch website.

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495218[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495218[/url])

cheers
steve



Reserved!

I just saw it on my Hobby Search newsletter before reading this.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 07, 2017, 12:34:47 pm
Hobbysearch give release date only as February, though chiayu.biz website seems to give it as "28 February 2018 Wednesday". How accurate this is remains to be seen. Site also gives this larger pic of the prototype:

http://chiayu.biz/catalog/images/3102.jpg (http://chiayu.biz/catalog/images/3102.jpg)

(http://chiayu.biz/catalog/images/3102.jpg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 08, 2017, 10:10:35 am
The latest Kato flyer is out, no RhB Postwagen and no RhB Gueterwagen so far :worried:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ohlavache on December 08, 2017, 01:13:50 pm
The latest Kato flyer is out, no RhB Postwagen and no RhB Gueterwagen so far :worried:

steve

My understanding is that it's too early.
Rumors I read seem to say that it should be for end 2018. With a Ge 6/6 I.
Let's cross fingers and toes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 12, 2017, 12:16:11 pm
My understanding is that it's too early.
Rumors I read seem to say that it should be for end 2018. With a Ge 6/6 I.
Let's cross fingers and toes.


Never too early for one of these

http://www.bahnbilder.de/1200/rhb-gepaeckwagen-d-4214-rhb-depot-725363.jpg (http://www.bahnbilder.de/1200/rhb-gepaeckwagen-d-4214-rhb-depot-725363.jpg)

or these

http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/rhb-gepaeckwagen-ds-4220-455781.jpg (http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/rhb-gepaeckwagen-ds-4220-455781.jpg)

to go together with the EW Is.

Or a nice Steuerwagen / control car.

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/rhb-bdt-1721-am-110508.jpg (http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/rhb-bdt-1721-am-110508.jpg)

Well, a Ge 6/6 I would be nice, but together with the Salon Wagen. And a Ge 6/6 II for the freight cars.   

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 14, 2017, 03:17:44 am

Never too early for one of these
[url]http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/rhb-gepaeckwagen-ds-4220-455781.jpg[/url] ([url]http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/rhb-gepaeckwagen-ds-4220-455781.jpg[/url])


Available from Shapeways. Mine has already run a full 2 day show in France as part of a Kato EWI consist

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-141217031911.jpeg)
Or a nice Steuerwagen / control car.


Two versions available from Shapeways


And a Ge 6/6 II for the freight cars.   


Available from Shapeways...



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 14, 2017, 03:32:07 am
Available from Shapeways...

I know but I don't like the shapeways quality, not even FUX. I rather wait for proper injection molded models.

Your DS looks good  :thumbsup:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 05:05:20 pm
These are new to me:

Advertised as complimentary to the Kato range, models from MDS Modell of no less than FIVE different models of the RhB Ge 4/4 II, and each in either DC, DCC, or DCC with sound.

Also two different sliding wall wagons in sets of two, and three different Schiebewandwagen, all with advertising liveries.

Prices seem in line with most main European manufacturers and Kato.

Details sent via email to me from Menzels Lokshuppen.de. Here's a link to their pre-order page.

https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Nach-Hersteller/MDS-Modell/ (https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Nach-Hersteller/MDS-Modell/)

Still trying to find fuller details of the manufacturer and anticipated issue dates, but have household things to do right now. :(


Anybody have any personal knowledge of the brand - MDS Modell?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 05:12:05 pm
Here's a translation copy of the email blurb about these from Menzels (edited):


This week we can present you ......... new in our range - railway models of MDS model for the N gauge. MDS model specializes in vehicles of the Rhaetian Railway in N gauge and as a range extension to the Swiss models of Kato delivers the electric locomotive Ge 4/4 II and a four-axle sliding wall wagon in attractive livery variants.

And also a translation of the manufacturers 'about us' page:

Quote
about us

MDS model and its products


The enterprise

MDS model was founded in 2010 by Gunnar Müller in Auenwald, Baden-Württemberg.

The company name was initially MDS-Müller and stood for model service service.

Müller built for friends and acquaintances digital decoder, speakers and steam generators in locomotives of all sizes. The quality of this work quickly spread. Because of the growing demand, a trade was registered under the name MDS-Müller. As an accessory for garden railways small series kits around the topic Rhaetian Railway were developed and produced. In collaboration with Peter Langula, the ingenious S-KuPLix short coupling for LGB models was created.

With the goal of developing their own railway models and working with a partner, the one-man company was renamed the MDS model in 2017. In the spring of 2018, a designer will be added who, like Gunnar Müller, has been working in the model railway industry for some 20 years. Both have developed models for IIm, 0, H0, TT and N for various model railway manufacturers in senior positions.

MDS model will start at the end of 2017 with the first own models for the N gauge (Japanese scale 1: 150). The Rhaetian Railway (RhB) offers a broad field of activity here.

The models of MDS model are highly detailed, timely designed and technically fine, but do not shy from the daily operation on the system. With this claim originated as the first models the Ge 4/4 II and the sliding wallcar Haik-v of the Rhaetian Railway.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 05:17:13 pm
Sorry, forgot to post the link to the manufacturers website:

https://mds-modell.eu/
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 05:23:36 pm
Just looked at individual items on the MDS Modell site and each has the words
"Lieferzeit ca. 30 Tage", that is, delivery in about 30 days.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 16, 2017, 07:08:43 pm
Just looked at individual items on the MDS Modell site and each has the words
"Lieferzeit ca. 30 Tage", that is, delivery in about 30 days.

Seems to be built to order.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 07:50:24 pm
Thanks Steve, that's the impression I was getting.
 :beers:

I notice RMWeb has a thread on these with comment that the models are 'superb'., though the locos high priced to Kato if latter bought direct from Japan.

I shall email the company re delivery/availability outside Germany

N.B. The email address quoted on RMWeb for MDS is not valid. mDS website has a contact form, which is what I have used.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 21, 2017, 01:06:17 am

Seems to be built to order.


No I got the feeling it was just that they have only just been launched. The firm previously did large scale RhB but have presumably noticed the healthy interest in Swiss N 1:150 and have decided to jump on...


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 21, 2017, 01:07:56 am
I know but I don't like the shapeways quality,

Your DS looks good  :thumbsup:

I've not had too many issues with the quality on the 1:150 Shapeways stuff

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on December 21, 2017, 09:37:08 am
Depends on so many factors, most notably the material. FUD/FXD are pretty good IMO. WSF isn’t good for n gauge.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 21, 2017, 10:01:29 am
Depends on so many factors, most notably the material. FUD/FXD are pretty good IMO. WSF isn’t good for n gauge.

Nah, I'm probably too picky but FUD and FXD doesn't do it for me. Good for detail parts and parts that need to look like concrete but not for models. The new stuff, the High Definition Acrylate is not bad an on the right way, just the resolution needs to be a bit higher to reduce the "moire". And the designer actually need to offer their models in this product.

steve   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on December 21, 2017, 10:24:39 am
Fair enough, I didn’t think HDA looked that good from what I’ve seen. You certainly need to take your time preparing FUD for painting, and as always it depends on the skill of the person doing the finish. But we digress.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 22, 2017, 12:19:52 am
Recent pics:



longest freight so far mustered (and negotiated the layout without incident.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217003024-59591519.jpeg)

Formation
Ge6/6II (Shapeways)
tank wagon (conversion from standard N gauge 1:160 wagon)
container well wagon (Shapeways)
Valser van (Roco SBB Hbis conversion)
tank wagon (Roco 1:160 conversion)
bogie flat with pipes load (Fleischmann 1:160 conversion)
Co-op 4w van (kitbash)
bogie flat with logs load (Minitrix 1:160 conversion)




Ge6/6II

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217003029-59593289.jpeg)


station building end on. Since the layout's appearance in Continental Modeller, I have replaced the old 'St Niklaus' station building and Kestrel platforms with a Kato Filisur station and 'Glacier Express platform/LRT platform kits. I then re-roofed the Kato Filisur station to make it look more like the 'lowland' type (with less roof overhang as less snow expected). My layout is set in the Domleschg, so I take Rodels-Realta as a guide.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217002944-595901926.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217000920-595831065.jpeg)


Shapeways EWII with Kato EWI

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217002941-59588550.jpeg)



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on December 22, 2017, 07:52:13 am
Shouldn’t the roof on the Ge6/6 be silver?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on December 22, 2017, 10:32:00 am
Hi Folks,

I've had a very nasty experience buying from the "Japan Excite Store" via eBay worldwide. They advertised and I bought a RhB train. It consisted of 1 x Kato 3101, 1 x Kato 10-1413 and 1 x Kato 10-1414. What actually arrived was 1 x Kato 10-1413. They have not replied to any emails asking where the balance is. So if you'll take my advice you will treat this supplier with extreme caution. >:(

What I did get was lovely BTW. Happy Christmas, wish I was there in Switzerland not warm foggy England,

Mike Beard. :censored:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 22, 2017, 11:36:57 am
I really hope the rest turns up in a second shipment Mike to make your Christmas brighter.

I'll second your wish to be in Switzerland. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on December 22, 2017, 01:27:42 pm
I've had a chat with eBay and essentually we will lodge a complaint against the supplier in order to get our money back.

I'm just adding a warning message as these guys still have very tempting offers on eBay and I'd rather others did not learn the hard, and expensive, way. >:(

Happy Christmas :beers:

Mike Beard

I'll third that - a small hotel near Filisur Station does it for this guy.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on December 22, 2017, 04:58:36 pm
Thanks Steve, that's the impression I was getting.
 :beers:

I notice RMWeb has a thread on these with comment that the models are 'superb'., though the locos high priced to Kato if latter bought direct from Japan.

I shall email the company re delivery/availability outside Germany

N.B. The email address quoted on RMWeb for MDS is not valid. mDS website has a contact form, which is what I have used.


now stocked by MBK ( all pending!)

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E)

(follow News about N Scale)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 22, 2017, 05:19:19 pm
Thanks RG. :thumbsup: That makes two German retailers now listing them with Menzels Lokschuppen and MBK. The manufacturers themselves have not yet replied to my email enquiry to them about actual release times. :(
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on December 22, 2017, 08:22:08 pm
Thanks RG. :thumbsup: That makes two German retailers now listing them with Menzels Lokschuppen and MBK. The manufacturers themselves have not yet replied to my email enquiry to them about actual release times. :(


MBK are taking reservations ( no deposit needed)

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/E/komplett2.cfm?fid=560&wgid=140&hint=0 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/E/komplett2.cfm?fid=560&wgid=140&hint=0)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on December 22, 2017, 08:43:46 pm
Hi Folks,

The Kato locos look very neat but does anybody make replacement overhead collectors?

Cheers,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 22, 2017, 09:12:39 pm
If you mean the pantograph, then Kato themselves do some. The part numbers are in the early 400's, so for example, 11-405.  A google search will bring up various sellers, from Amazon to eBay etc.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 23, 2017, 01:12:29 am
Hi Folks,

I've had a very nasty experience buying from the "Japan Excite Store" via eBay worldwide. They advertised and I bought a RhB train. It consisted of 1 x Kato 3101, 1 x Kato 10-1413 and 1 x Kato 10-1414. What actually arrived was 1 x Kato 10-1413. They have not replied to any emails asking where the balance is. So if you'll take my advice you will treat this supplier with extreme caution. >:(

What I did get was lovely BTW. Happy Christmas, wish I was there in Switzerland not warm foggy England,

Mike Beard.

I notice they have a high proportion of negatives.

I recommend sticking to Plaza Japan, or even better stay outside of Ebay and shop direct with 1999.co.jp aka Hobby Search. Much more model orientated and never had any problems with them.


Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 23, 2017, 01:19:21 am
Shouldn’t the roof on the Ge6/6 be silver?

It was a rush job to get it ready for the Boulogne show. As you can probably tell, the roof is not complete. For the purposes of the show it was quickest to give it one quick red spray and stick two random pantographs on it.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on December 25, 2017, 08:27:19 pm
OK, it's Christmas Night and the BBC are broadcasting their worst.   Time to do some designing I think. There is no doubt that one way or another I'll have a Kato 3101 and both packs of EW1 coaches. Now the next question is "What to run them on?" So let us suppose a train consists of a nominal loco and 6 off EW1 coaches or their equivalent. I've noticed that Kato quote everything as being able to surmount a 5% grade. OK, joke over. What are the hauling charactoristics of these Kato locos on spirals? I assume they will easily haul a 6 to 8 coach train on the level but what radius spiral and what angle to be able to lift 6 coaches? Any info would be a start. In the end I can build an adjustable spiral but it would be nice to have some foreknowledge.

Happy New Year and Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 02, 2018, 02:18:49 am
OK, it's Christmas Night and the BBC are broadcasting their worst.   Time to do some designing I think. There is no doubt that one way or another I'll have a Kato 3101 and both packs of EW1 coaches. Now the next question is "What to run them on?" So let us suppose a train consists of a nominal loco and 6 off EW1 coaches or their equivalent. I've noticed that Kato quote everything as being able to surmount a 5% grade. OK, joke over. What are the hauling charactoristics of these Kato locos on spirals? I assume they will easily haul a 6 to 8 coach train on the level but what radius spiral and what angle to be able to lift 6 coaches? Any info would be a start. In the end I can build an adjustable spiral but it would be nice to have some foreknowledge.

Happy New Year and Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.

I tend not to have space for inclines so can't help much, but the Kato Ge4/4III are pretty darn powerful and will easily haul the 8 EWI coaches round a 183 radius curve, which I imagine causes similar drag to an incline.

It is worth noting that in the last few years the standard Albula set has been 6 EW plus a Ds van, so not too heavy a rake IMO (and hence my keenness to use a shapeways Ds van with my Kato EWI


Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 02, 2018, 08:22:59 am
Even the sharpest curve is no comparison to a gradient whatsoever. Most Kato locos have excellent haulage, so I’d guess the Ge4/4 will have no issues with 6-8 coaches on a 2, possibly even 3% gradient. Steeper tends to cause problems, but again you’d have to try it as it’ll depend on a number of factors.

Weight is the single biggest factor, if there’s extra room in the body you could add more.

Mock up a gradient with your stock and try it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 02, 2018, 12:26:46 pm
So, the Kato 10-1145 and the10-1414 arrived today from Train Trax.  :thankyousign: They look really good. Interestingly the 10-1414 box has push-outs in the foam to allow for the full eight coaches to be in one box. Good thinking. One thing I'll have to do is make up a sticker with the coach number on it and put it on the underneath of the coach so I know which is which. The loco has traction tyres. Has anybody bought any yet? I'm obviously going to change out the loco rapidos for the semi-permanent couplings and it seems that kits are available to shorten the gap between panoramics. Has anybody tried installing anything more discrete than the Rapido couplers that has an amount of automatic function?

Now I have a handfull of stock I can try out various grades on my 4 foot x 2 foot test track. That's always fun, like being a kid again seeing what angle the loco skids at!

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 03, 2018, 01:03:39 am
Interestingly the 10-1414 box has push-outs in the foam to allow for the full eight coaches to be in one box. Good thinking.

This is standard practice for Japanese model railway 'book' sets, and they did the same for the original Glacier Express coach issues.

And you will find also that they provide stickers for you to label the book pack.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 03, 2018, 11:27:40 am
Gordon said:-

And you will find also that they provide stickers for you to label the book pack.


Yes, I have. I've still got to identify every coach by a number and number its "bed space" though. I wish that all my problems were so simple!

I've heard/read whispers that the Ae8/12 railcar might leave something to be desired noise/running wise. Has anybody any experience of them?

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 03, 2018, 01:24:33 pm
I have two Allegra 3-car sets, one bought with a Starter Set, the other as 10-1318, the Bernina Express 5-car set. One of these I have fitted with Kato's carriage lighting.

They are noisier than say Kato's Ge 4/4 III locos, but nothing untoward as far as I'm concerned.  I have a Minitrix Re 460 that is louder, thanks to its metal gearing.

All in all, they are fine models and I would not be put off by the noise factor. But noise is a personal thing, so if you can, get a shop to test run one for you while you're in the shop so you can see what the Allegra is like.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 03, 2018, 05:50:47 pm
Now then,

I've run my Ge4/4 III on Coberg Yard and it handles the Atlas code 55 to NMRA standards just fine. The two Glacier Express coaches do too. The Rapidos look supremely ugly. Although I am fairy deaf I have sufficient hearing to know that it is silent. :claphappy:

What else can I say? Even the current Mrs Beard likes the train; a first in 47 years of married life! :laugh:

Now if Kato made the van and a railcar not to mention freight stock and Tillig made N Gauge track for a while my cup would run over. :)

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 04, 2018, 12:40:24 am

I've heard/read whispers that the Ae8/12 railcar might leave something to be desired noise/running wise. Has anybody any experience of them?

I have three Allegras and they are all perfectly fine. AFAIR the 'noise' thing was raised early in the existence of these models, and I recall disagreeing with the notion then, and still do.

They make a bit of a whining noise but as far as I am concerned that gives a brilliantly realistic electric train sound, without the hassle and expense of DCC!


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 09, 2018, 08:43:28 pm
I've been looking at current RhB trains at Filisur. It's good to see the 600 series of locos working the Glacier Express. An excuse to buy one as if it were needed. The other thing seems to be that the RhB seem to be replacing the EW1 coaches with new ones in 6 coach fixed sets built to the full loading gauge profile. Five of these coaches seem identical but the leading one seems to be equipped with a dedicated wheelchair area. Is that true? Has anybody here been on one? Does anybody know where I can find drawings or a technical review?

Still scribbling track plans,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 09, 2018, 09:13:54 pm
Does anybody know where I can find drawings or a technical review?

Are you talking about the new ALVRA for the Albula line ?

Infoflyer.pdf (https://www.rhb.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/redaktion/Ueber_die_RhB/Medien/Dokumente/Medienmitteilungen/Medienmitteilungen_2016/2016.06.11_Alvra-Gliederzug_-_Infoflyer.pdf)

A train Kato will hopefully "jump on"   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 09, 2018, 10:27:00 pm
Thank You Steve,

Yes, they are the cars that form the train but it seems that the Control Trailers, in UK parlance, are to follow. Having seen the plans it does seem as though the provision for wheelchair users is excellent even to the extent of redesigning the body shell to lower the window line. Those people designing stock for the UK should take due note.

Whilst I do like them I think I'd tend to put them behind the provision of freight stock but what say have I or we in what Kato provides next? Let's just be happy with what we can get now and hope for the future.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 10, 2018, 06:18:25 pm
I've been looking at current RhB trains at Filisur. It's good to see the 600 series of locos working the Glacier Express. The other thing seems to be that the RhB seem to be replacing the EW1 coaches with new ones in 6 coach fixed sets built to the full loading gauge profile. Five of these coaches seem identical but the leading one seems to be equipped with a dedicated wheelchair area.
Mike Beard.

Firstly, the Glacier Express is nearly always hauled by a '600' as all but the Ge6/6 locos are in the 600 series :-)

If you had seen my writings on other forums you would fully appreciate that the EWI are very much threatened (some have already been scrapped or sold including to the Baie de Somme railway not far from the UK!). Since last year the Alvra set have been working half of the Chur - St Moritz express workings.

The Alvra sets (aka Albula Gliederzug AGZ) are permanently coupled 7 coach sets comprising driving trailer plus 6 permanently coupled intermediate coaches (known as 'articulated' but not really in the traditional sense as if split an individual coach would stay standing up and not 'fall over' ). So far the driving trailers have not yet entered full service as their building was badly delayed compared to the intermediate coaches; so the Allegra units have been running round at each end of the journey!

In fact only two of the seven coaches are identical, namely the second class coaches B 57301-57306 and B57401-06. The train formation is loco (or Allegra): end coach: two 2nd class standard coaches: 2nd class family/bike/children/leisure coach: 1st/2nd composite coach: 1st class standard coach : driving trailer

What you called a 'wheelchair' coach is actually much more than that. It has a low floor area, two wheelchair spaces, and the 'photographers' area' . This section of the coach has sideways facing seats and opening windows.

I have travelled in an Alvra set and the normal coaches are similar to the Allegra.

I sampled the 'Photo' area but found it cramped and not terribly comfortable.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 10, 2018, 06:55:06 pm
Thank you for that Gordon, it is much clearer for that explanation. It's obvious that the car designers put their thinking caps on. As to the 600 class, I did of course mean the second series, the first being virtually extinct by my understanding.

It does seem as though we are witnessing a total renewal of the RhB coaching stock.

Do any of the single unit railcars still have a place or are they too a fond memory?

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2018, 12:16:47 am
As to the 600 class, I did of course mean the second series, the first being virtually extinct by my understanding.
Do any of the single unit railcars still have a place or are they too a fond memory?

The problem is that the Ge4/4III are also in the '600 series' so nobody refers to the Ge 4/4I or Ge4/4II as '600 series' . Incidentally the RhB themselves use the 'nickname' BoBo1 for Ge4/4I 601 - 610), BoBo 2 (Ge4/4II 611 - 633 but in two batches), and BoBo 3 = Ge4/4III 641 - 652.

Four Ge4/4 I (602, 603, 605 610) were literally brought back from the scrapheap as RhB realised just in time that they would need some locos to work the new Albula tunnel works trains.

.

There is a preserved 500 single railcar which I saw on a special in April 2017


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2018, 12:23:20 am
Here is a set at Berguen in April 2017. Allegra leading towards Chur, 'Fotoabteil' coach next to camera (and note also that other stock can still be coupled to the Alvra coaches - some more good 'thinking cap' work!)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118000831.jpeg)



At Preda in April 2017 I saw my first driving trailer on test, amazingly it pulled up alongside the 1947-built Ge4/4I 603. A mere 69 year age gap between the two items of non preserved rolling stock!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118002437-604151154.jpeg)



Then I saw one on test at Samedan in August 2017

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118002453-60429940.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118002450-604281675.jpeg)


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2018, 12:45:29 am
Do any of the single unit railcars still have a place or are they too a fond memory?



Here is 501 in April 2017.

Wasn’t expecting it so only got a poor distant shot from our holiday let

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118003925-60431441.jpeg)


Saw it close up a few days later being towed by 707 in a freight train

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118003915-604301912.jpeg)



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 11, 2018, 06:52:32 pm
All I can do is add this image of Ge4/4III 644 taken in 2003 while I was on holiday in Switzerland:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-110118180104.jpeg)

Now that I would like as a colour scheme on the Kato model.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 01:24:28 pm
The coach coupled to 644 was this one:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-120118131017.jpeg)

Now I've never seen a model of it nor any reference anywhere. Can anybody help?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 12, 2018, 01:35:26 pm
It's one of the Gourmino dining cars, which they've obviously painted in an advertising livery.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 01:52:51 pm
It seems that the Stiva Retica car is a bit more than a Gourmino car. It's actually a single car for 44 people that you can hire for parties etc. The RhB has a single page about it on its web pages. Yes, I've literally just looked here:-

https://www.rhb.ch/en/leisure-travel-and-excursions/groups-schools/charter-carriages/stiva-retica (https://www.rhb.ch/en/leisure-travel-and-excursions/groups-schools/charter-carriages/stiva-retica)

Oddly it seems as though it's a side corridor coach of some sort if you look through the windows, which are different to a Gourmino car. This is the Gourmino car we used in 2003:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-120118131640.jpeg)

It's coupled directly behind the rack loco that hauled us over the difficult sections of the Glacier Express. Not as well known as the RhB portion. I think it's at the mouth of the FO tunnel, I can't be 100% sure at this distance.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 06:00:38 pm
Now I've never seen a model of it nor any reference anywhere. Can anybody help?


This 'Gesellschaftswagen' started its life as a 'Schwere Stahlwagen' (heavy steel wagons) A4ü 1208 (later A 1208) back in 1929. 

This is the car back in 1989 A1208 (http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/schweiz~rhaetische-bahn~personenwagen/69299/rhb---a-1208-am-24091989.html)

And this is the car now, very nice interior, same style as an old Swiss restaurant, WR-S 3821 Stiva Retica (http://www.haribu.ch/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=47)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 06:22:06 pm
Found an interesting page on the Kato website (some may already know) and it seems we have to reload our wallets for May 2018. More Ge4/4II on the horizon. (http://www.katomodels.com/product/index_e.shtml)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on January 12, 2018, 06:55:34 pm
The coach coupled to 644 was this one:-

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-120118131017.jpeg[/url])

Now I've never seen a model of it nor any reference anywhere. Can anybody help?


Bemo have done a model of this coach but its in HOm, never seen one in N
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 07:42:16 pm
Found an interesting page on the Kato website (some may already know) and it seems we have to reload our wallets for May 2018. More Ge4/4II on the horizon. ([url]http://www.katomodels.com/product/index_e.shtml[/url])

steve


I've been through them and it looks to me that the Ge4/4II 631 will become available sometime in February 2018 and in May 2018 the Ge4/4III will be available with a full Glacier Express 6 coach unit, but I may be wrong. In the meantime there seems to be a "World Shortage" of Glacier Express "Add-On" 4 coach sets which Kato might like to address.

Happy Modelling - the Ge4/4II looks like being about $75.00,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 07:56:53 pm
and in May 2018 the Ge4/4III will be available with a full Glacier Express 6 coach unit


The description (and picture) on the first page is for another Ge4/4II or a 2nd run or follow up because of high demand of the same as in February 2018.

Quote
In the meantime there seems to be a "World Shortage" of Glacier Express "Add-On" 4 coach sets which Kato might like to address.


They already did, will be available also in May 2018. Place your reservation NOW ! (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=104&cat=&state=&sold=0&sortid=0&searchkey=10-1146)  ;)
(I did) :D

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 08:07:34 pm
That's interesting, I've recently paid about £45 for a Glacier Express Add-On 4 cars from what turned out to be China.  Even more interesting will be if they actuallyarrive! I think the new run will retail in the UK from £64, starting with TrainTrax and working upwards.

I'm in the planning stage, 12 foot x 2 foot portable, and I'm wondering what is the overall length of the Kato 10-1318 + 10-1319? It should set the design cat among the wanted passing loop length pigeons!

While I have your attention whose N gauge wagons can I "fudge" reasonably easily RhB freight cars from?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 09:07:15 pm
While I have your attention whose N gauge wagons can I "fudge" reasonably easily RhB freight cars from?


I would say @Gordon (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=704) is the one to answer that question, he's done several according to his pictures he posted.

I haven't done any fudging with freight cars, I am still in the designing phase (when time permits) for several different Ge4/4 III liveries and trying out different weathering steps for the locomotive roof (after all that is what we see first if we do not have a shelf layout on eye level).

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 09:25:11 pm
I'm not convinced that the 11kV busbars on the loco roofs are black. In my day the porcelain insulators were an ivory colour, not black, and the busbars themselves were bare copper. Brake block dust tended to cut back the colours but the insulators were kept clean otherwise unwanted flashovers were the result. They punch holes in roofs!

Anybody got a colour photo of a Ge4/4III roof in service? Out with the Revell 84, again!

Please somebody run a measure over the 9 cars of the Bernina Express. It would so helpful.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 09:57:09 pm
Anybody got a colour photo of a Ge4/4III roof in service?

I went thru hundreds and hundreds of pictures online to collect some good roof shots, I saved them all on my computer but can't re-post them here as they are not mine. If you use the word Dachansicht in your search it can help.

I found a great picture of the green one on flickr, if I can find the link I will post it, I saved the link somewhere   :)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 10:02:41 pm
@Mike Beard (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6079) , Dachaufbau is also a word you could use.

This (http://www.homepage.swissonline.ch/ABG-Technology/Ge4-4III/GeRtop.jpg) is a shot from a LGB model weathered by someone else.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2018, 12:37:36 am
Anybody got a colour photo of a Ge4/4III roof in service? Out with the Revell 84, again


Just look at the Filisur webcam. Southbound Ge4/4III often stop just below the camera.

This photo shows a recently outshopped loco so the roof colour variations are visible:

http://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/a1706260904714 (http://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/a1706260904714)

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2018, 12:43:44 am
While I have your attention whose N gauge wagons can I "fudge" reasonably easily RhB freight cars from?

See my reply #224 in this thread recently, and also my other  posts to this thread right back to number 0 (I started the thread 2.5 years ago in June 2015! )


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2018, 12:48:38 am
The description (and picture) on the first page is for another Ge4/4II or a 2nd run or follow up because of high demand of the same as in February 2018.


As I read it, the newsletters show the originally planned issue of Ge4/4II 631 in February 2018. The 'page' for May 2018 also says Ge4/4II 631, so it's not a second model, just more examples of the first one. Like you I imagine this reflects the number of pre-orders for the first batch.

And to think I was told this Kato RhB stuff would never take off!


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 13, 2018, 01:25:47 pm
I only have first hand knowledge of Dapol and Bachmann in the UK. Dapol, being in Wales, are very helpful for spares as are Bachmann. However they both suffer from "reservation fever" where they map out their ideas for the next 5 years or so. Kato seem to announce at between 4 and 5 months prior to delivery. I know which one I prefer.

What Kato seems not to have is a proper spares/maintenance organisation in Europe and that will tend to cost it friends in the long term, especially as the Swiss models become more popular.

Just some random thoughts,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2018, 07:55:09 pm
(1) Kato seem to announce at between 4 and 5 months prior to delivery. I know which one I prefer.

(2) What Kato seems not to have is a proper spares/maintenance organisation in Europe and that will tend to cost it friends in the long term, especially as the Swiss models become more popular.

(1) not really true. The Ge4/4II was announced a year ago for delivery next month

(2) Gaugemaster hold Kato spares, but in my experience (and I have obviously kept a close look on the subject) the spares run out at source in Japan frequently, simply due to the popularity of stuff.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 13, 2018, 08:58:34 pm
Well Gordon, in my experience announcing a new loco for delivery in one years time and actually making it is some sort of miracle.

I suppose you could assume that next month Mr Kato will give us another reason to live another year rather than fall about in mirth as we do at others announcements.

It's almost sane.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 13, 2018, 09:07:46 pm
in my experience announcing a new loco for delivery in one years time and actually making it is some sort of miracle.

It has to do with "we better announce it before the competition does" and then they start the R&D   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 14, 2018, 07:57:20 pm
So I have today ordered a Bernina 9 car unit. Interesting. is it safe to assume that a Ge4/4III can the used to haul the 6 coaches if a railcar is not available?

I watched a Bemo Ge4/4II lift a train, modest length, up a 5% grade today. Any ideas on what a Kato Ge4/4III will lift up a curving 5% grade?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 14, 2018, 08:07:44 pm
Anybody got a colour photo of a Ge4/4III roof in service?


Mike, how about this one ?

#647 (http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/schweiz~rhaetische-bahn~strecke-rheintal-lq-rei/721310/auch-die-rhb-hat-jetzt-eine.html)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 14, 2018, 09:05:32 pm
That's very interesting. It looks like some gentle matting of the paintwork and droppings from the overhead have happened, little more. The real thing is that the insulators seem to be white, not black and the 11kV busbars are much thinner than Kato would have you believe.

Pass the brass wire!

Thank You.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series - new Kato announcements
Post by: Railwaygun on January 15, 2018, 10:18:45 am
From: MikeBeard ngauge@Io
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 08:33:38 GMT
Hi Folks,
 
Kato have released their RhB un-modernised EW1 coaches as two sets, a basic set and an add-on set. Total coast for 8 coaches is about £150 or just under £20/coach. The EW1's can be seen at the bottom in the prototype photo.
 
The next item to come, in February in Japan, is a RhB Ge4/4II modernised loco. It carries the number 631 and is part of the second series of 11kV locos. Scaled at 1:150 it's about the same size as a UK N Gauge loco.
 

 
I understand it has proved to be so popular on pre-orders that a second run, unfortunately with same number, is planned in May. The prices quoted in Euros can be easily bettered BTW. Noch do add a huge mark-up!.
 
It seems there is an unknown coming up on the outside.
 
Happy Modelling,
 
Mike Beard. I
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 15, 2018, 10:53:57 am
I assume these are the same EW1 coaches already noted earlier here and that I bought from Train Trax last September, and had been released a month or so before in Japan.

As for the "unknown coming up on the outside", I wonder if this refers to the MDS Modelle items mentioned elsewhere earlier on this Forum that are currently listed to pre-order on websites such as Menzels Lokshuppen and Modellbahn Kramm?

https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Nach-Hersteller/MDS-Modell/ (https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Nach-Hersteller/MDS-Modell/)

Includes Ge 4/4II locos in various liveries as well as some much wanted RhB freight cars.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 11:13:18 am
The freight cars look good, and well priced for a pair too. The Mk2s seem quite competitive too, and look like their DCC (and sound) ready. Can't believe Kato still resist DCC compatibility quite so staunchly.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 12:03:27 pm
Hi Folks,

The quote by "Railwaygun" is taken from another N gauge chat site, very UK based. The guy coming up on the outside is Mr Kato. Good quality at a good price. Popular railway, look at Bemo's sales and exhibition layouts, look at the number of tourists, not all Japanese. Astute move long term. :D

My order for the 9 car Bernina line train was rejected, I assume because they made such a mighty Large Ricket  of supplying a previous Christmas present order. I now have a 5 car unit, the railcar and two coaches, on order elsewhere.  :censored:

So much to do, so little time,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 12:59:05 pm
To be fair, I don't see Kato and Bemo as true rivals - to me the Kato items are still more 'trainsety' (it's a word) than the Bemo offerings. My take would be that the popularity appears to have caught them slightly off guard, and subsequent releases do seem to be trying to address that - cavernous gaps between coaches spring to mind. Branching into older locos, coaching stock etc is clearly about having a holistic range, rather than some souvenirs for the tourist market.

I've yet to see a proper layout in the flesh using the Kato range, but the MDS items look like they'd broaden the scope significantly to make it a more practical reality without scratchbuilding.

Given the price of Bemo stuff these days I'd still be tempted down the Kato route, although I've always liked the idea of having HOm and HO side by side, which wouldn't really work with the Kato.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 01:50:50 pm
I do understand the point about Kato being to "train set" standards. This can be addressed by substituting different couplers for the horrid Rapido ones they started fitted to the Glacier Express sets. The other items that need addressing are the roof fittings on the locos. Certainly the busbars etc need to be finer and the pantographs really need replacing with more proper metal ones.

To be fair to Kato the EW1 sets include instructions on fitting semi-permanent couplings to the Glacier Express coaches and the two different EW1 sets include two spare couplings each to enable this. Also there is a conversion kit available in Japan to couple the full set of Glacier Express coaches closer together. It includes shorter corridor connections but I understand that these only need to be fitted if your using the Kato 6" curves otherwise the fitted longer ones are fine.  It makes sense to use semi-permanent couplings. On a typical "Roundy-roundy" layout how often would you separate the loco from its coaches?  There is a halfway house of fitting MicroTrains couplings at the end of semi-permanent sets and on locos and railcars. Freight stock is another problem and I would think that some experimentation will be needed to find a semi-automatic coupling system but I'd lean towards MicroTrains and Rix uncouplers.

The MDS bogie vans are going to be a welcome addition but might we risk drowning in a sea of pure water as there are no other wagons readily available? What couplings do they come with? This is still unclear.

It's going to take a couple of years from now to produce anything approaching an exhibition layout as not everything necessary is available in 1:150 scale. Bit of an understatement there but still. I'm hoping to have a 12' x 2' layout "in the nude", ie bare wood and working track but no decoration, by this time next year. Worle New Year Show and all that? We'll see.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 02:15:37 pm
Not sure that's true, 1:148 and 1:160  are rather well established after all, and you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference for many items.

I agree that they're trying to move away from the trainset image, indeed I said as much, which is laudable. Would be good to continue to see the range expand.

It's still fighting a battle of the scales too - as the track scales to a whopping 35% wider than the prototype. Whilst British N is about 8% too narrow it's hard to overlook a 35% discrepancy, and don't the Ge4/4 IIIs scale too short too, possibly as a result of ensuring they'll work on their 6" radius curves. Anyone re-wheeling them for Z gauge track?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 03:12:51 pm
I think the Kato Ge4/4III will be longer than its Ge4/4II brother.  In retrospect I could have compared it with its Bemo equivalent yesterday at Worle - fast back 24 hours!

As to the gauge discreperancy I'm not going to get worked up over that issue. I'd rather use Peco track. In fact I'm looking forward to making the scissors crossover with integrated double slip as per Filisur as modelled by Barry Kelsall.

I've been trawling through the  Plaza Japan website and I've come across a lot of spares for an ABe4/4. Anybody got any bright ideas?
Equally does anybody know of a spares holding of traction tyres for the Ge4/4III anywhere in the world?

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 03:55:14 pm
Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.

Kato GE4/4s are 103mm over buffers, or 15.45m. The prototype is 16m, so the model is nearly 4mm short.

Bemo ones are 184mm, or 16.008m. So it's 0.009mm too long.

LBG G Scale ones are 65cm, or 14.62m, so they're the shortest of the lot, and IMO they look a bit squashed!

All figures proffered by Google, so may not be 100% accurate. Can measure all 3 next time I see my dad!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 04:19:16 pm
Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.

ABe4/4 is one of the two powered parts of the Allegra. Nothing odd at all.

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 04:25:01 pm
Can't believe Kato still resist DCC compatibility quite so staunchly.

Please explain what you mean with that. Simply replacing the Kato analog PCB with a DCC decoder from digitrax or TCS, can it get any more "DCC compatible" than that ?

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 15, 2018, 04:25:53 pm
In reality the Ge 4/4 II is 12960mm, whereas the Ge 4/4 III is 16000mm over the buffers.

Scaled down that should put the Kato model of the III at 106.66mm, but in fact all the ones I have are approx 103mm.

The forthcoming Kato model of the II should be around 86.44mm, though oddly MSL show it listed with a length of 112mm! :o Oops!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 04:35:10 pm
Equally does anybody know of a spares holding of traction tyres for the Ge4/4III anywhere in the world?

They are scheduled for February delivery.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 05:04:13 pm
Thanks for the news concerning the traction tyres for the Ge4/4III :)

To my dreaded draughtsmans eye the Kato pre-production Ge4/4II is certainly more "stubby" than its younger brother. I find it difficult to measure a loco on the layout. You have to decide if your going to run railways or collect them. 50+ years tells me I have never met a happy rivet counter! :laugh:

It is very strange about the ABe4/4. If you google it a number of production late model ABe4/4 appear in the photo section. However in the dim, distant past Kato may have made an ABe4/4 for somebody else in the same way they made locos for Atlas. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 05:08:45 pm
Can't believe Kato still resist DCC compatibility quite so staunchly.

Please explain what you mean with that. Simply replacing the Kato analog PCB with a DCC decoder from digitrax or TCS, can it get any more "DCC compatible" than that ?

Seriosuly? Of course it can - they could adhere to NMRA standards and fit sockets like every other manufacturer, rather than relying on two manufacturers making drop-in decoders to work with their proprietary designs. Surely that's obvious? What if I want to use Zimo, CT or ESU decoders? They have made zero concessions to DCC; TCS and Digitrax have simply worked around this.

Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.
ABe4/4 is one of the two powered parts of the Allegra. Nothing odd at all.

Ah, fair enough, was thinking of the old railcars.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 05:20:07 pm
Seriosuly? Of course it can - they could adhere to NMRA standards and fit sockets like every other manufacturer, rather than relying on two manufacturers making drop-in decoders to work with their proprietary designs. Surely that's obvious? What if I want to use Zimo, CT or ESU decoders? They have made zero concessions to DCC; TCS and Digitrax have simply worked around this.

Oohps, yeah coming from the 'Murican side of the hobby I am not that used to the NMRA sockets yet (Fox Valley Models have them) and simply exchanging the PC beats milling the frame any time. But you're right, a socket would make it more easy.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 05:29:50 pm
Fair enough, yeah, they're ubiquitous on UK stock now, my only first hand experience of converting a Kato model is a Eurostar where one of the pickups broke, I had to un-solder and re-use the LEDs from the original PCB, and then had to file the roof of the body in order to get it to refit. Not the most onerous task ever, but to call it DCC ready is a bit of a joke (not suggesting they do).
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 06:03:57 pm
It is very strange about the ABe4/4. If you google it a number of production late model ABe4/4 appear in the photo section.

This is a very sad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaetian_Railway_ABe_4/4_II#/media/File:Trains_des_RhB_(ligne_de_la_Bernina)_(Suisse)_(5302259235).jpg) one  :worried: 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 06:32:18 pm
Nowt to do with owt, but I always though that as the Cambrian line no longer has freight second hand stock and first class management from the RhB would be a fine thing for Welsh community.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2018, 12:27:22 am
So I have today ordered a Bernina 9 car unit. Interesting. is it safe to assume that a Ge4/4III can the used to haul the 6 coaches if a railcar is not available?

It doesn’t happen in practice, but both are fitted with the same couplers so it is possible. At the moment all Bernina Express coaches are hauled by Allegra or Ge4/4II
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2018, 12:31:52 am
to me the Kato items are still more 'trainsety' than the Bemo offerings.

Even if they were ‘trainsety’ at the start, they certainly are not now.
Kato 1:150 scale is bound to be less detailed than Bemo stuff due to the smaller size, and if it is a bit more basic then I for one am not going to complain as the price (from source in Japan - not the horrendous German mark up!) is reasonable (Kato Allegra sample current UK shop price = £140; Bemo Allegra sample UK price = over £500.

The Kato EWI coaches are absolutely superb renditions of a type of coach I know extremely well, apart from the gap in the lower coach ends for the couplings which is an absolutely necessary compromise to make the coaches work in practice.


I've yet to see a proper layout in the flesh using the Kato range, but the MDS items look like they'd broaden the scope significantly to make it a more practical reality without scratchbuilding.

You are welcome to come and see my layout in the flesh at the European N gauge show this coming September.

Also, it really isn’t that hard to make a wagon or two, but of course not all RhB lines see freight wagons regularly anyway.

It's still fighting a battle of the scales too - as the track scales to a whopping 35% wider than the prototype.

I appreciate the track gauge is an issue for some people. All I will say is that once you have created a scenic layout it is hardly noticeable. And that is not just my own view. At exhibitions, looking at my layout people really don’t see a problem, and all I get from the viewing public is ‘wow that looks great, and so  realistic’ - and this includes senior members of the Swiss Railways Society and the Editor of Continental Modeller 
.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2018, 12:51:36 am

1. The MDS bogie vans are going to be a welcome addition but might we risk drowning in a sea of pure water as there are no other wagons readily available?

2. It's going to take a couple of years from now to produce anything approaching an exhibition layout as not everything necessary is available in 1:150 scale.

There are bogie vans, container well wagons and aggregates hoppers available from Shapeways, plus a now large range of old timer coaches and wagons; and it only takes about an hour to ‘kitbash’ an acceptable tank wagon or bogie flat from 1:160 European standard gauge. The Kato 1:150 helps here as the donor vehicles are already smaller being to 1:160.

My layout has been up and running since 2014, and has been exhibited at several shows ( booked for European Rail show this coming September. )

Nobody has noticed that there is a mixture of 1:148, 1:160 and 1:150 stuff. You can’t really tell the difference at the fabled ‘normal viewing distance for N scale’.

Note the following
1. British 1:148 items scenic items and road vehicles can be used (for example the Oxford VW vans)
2. Japanese 1:150 scenic items and road vehicles can be used. Helpful here is that as Switzerland does not have it’s own motor industry, Japanese cars are quite popular
3. Some Japanese buildings are surprisingly European in nature, the modern office block are quite similar to Swiss modern buildings (as the Swiss don’t seem to mind building monstrosities next to old timber buildings . Even some of the old style Japanese buildings are not far removed as Japan is mountainous.
4. If so desired one can use the old ‘distance’ thing and put 1:150 stuff towards the front and 1:160 behind (remember the 1970s when there were layouts with OO in the front and N gauge at the back ‘in the distance’)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2018, 01:11:49 am
In reality the Ge 4/4 II is 12960mm, whereas the Ge 4/4 III is 16000mm over the buffers. that should put the Kato model of the III at 106.66mm, but in fact all the ones I have are approx 103mm.

Kato GE4/4s are 103mm over buffers, or 15.45m. The proto is 16m, so model is nearly 4mm short.

It should be remembered that the one thing that is a ‘dangerous’ when scaling any N gauge item is the buffers/couplings as that is the one area where a model may have to be a compromise compared to the real thing. This is especially problematic with Swiss metre gauge as most vehicles have no buffers in the standard gauge sense. For this reason when scratchbuilding I always take the overall length of only the bodyshell from a dimension drawing. Unfortunately I can’t lay my hands on a Ge4/4III drawing…   

The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there abouts.

Out of interest the TT Trams Ge4/4III on shapeways is quoted as 104mm long and I assume TT Trams guys have done the homework - as all there other stuff excellent.

ps - sorry about all the posts but lots of interesting debate today!

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 06:54:53 am
The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there

Ge4/4 IIIs (and most RHB stock) do have a single buffer as you well know. Length over buffers is a standard metric, and shouldn’t include couplers or anything like that. It’s not the end of the world, it’s close, but they are short.

I’m glad you’re happy with the track width, i do hope to see your layout sometime, for me it really grates and you’ll never get away from that. That others are happy is evident from the expansion of the range, but I’m not keen.

I also said they’re deviating from the trainset market their first models appealed to. Twice. No need to be so defensive.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 16, 2018, 07:04:30 am
Quote
ps - sorry about all the posts but lots of interesting debate today!

No apology necessary Gordon, as I for one am quite happy with the Kato RhB items, and appreciate your knowledge and expertise.

Any discrepancies in scaling, or detail differences in the modelling are very minor issues for me, and as you say, the recent releases from Kato are very good.
Perhaps it is age and poor eyesight, but when viewing a Kato model at normal viewing distances, I like what I see. With photographs of models often being presented in a magnified state, it is always going to be possible to see detail problems, but given the N scale we are dealing with I find them very acceptable. For the price they are outstanding, especially given the quality of the loco internals. Things could always be improved, but then I suspect the price would rise accordingly.

I am also happy to mix 1/148, 1/150 and 1/160 scales, my layout being a mix of SBB and RhB operations (with a bit of BLS thrown in as in the real world, and also to satisfy Rule #1).   
For vehicles, I find the Busch, Herpa, Noch, Rietze, Tomytec and Oxford ranges sit happily side by side with considered positioning.

It would seem that that early days of Kato RhB are passing, where the manufacturer seemed to be responding to a demand from Japanese tourists for models of the iconic Swiss trains they had seen on holiday in a smaller scale and at a lower price than the Bemo range. Indeed, I sometimes feel, when visiting the hotspots in the summer over the last decades that there are more East Asian tourists in Switzerland than there are Swiss nationals!  In time, as the popularity of Kato Swiss models increases, perhaps we may see a greater diversity in the Kato range, coupled with the improvements in modelling. MDS Modelle evidently see the expanding niche market, and maybe others will follow, or we will see further stimulation from Kato, in time. Who knows, we may even see other Swiss rail company liveries and models in the future. WAB, JB, MOB, ZB, et al - the possibilities are many, though problematic.

I don't for one moment think RhB in N Gauge will match the depth and breadth of the Bemo range, but it's nice to dream.

All in all, the future could be good for the tourist, the enthusiast and the modeller alike.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Bealman on January 16, 2018, 07:09:50 am
Gordon does bring up a list of valid stuff that makes for interesting reading.

I for one do not worry about half a mill here and there, wether it be buffers or track gauge.

And I would love to see the layout in September, but twelve inch to the foot scale unfortunately will probably rule that out!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 08:40:41 am
Half a mill, nope, you’re right. 3mm on the track width? Bit different. Well done for being dismissive though.

I’m certainly impressed with the prices as you say Mike, as always with Kato the prices from Japan are superb, and somewhat less impressive from most UK retailers! Less than £120 for the 5-car Bernina set is amazing, even factoring in import and taxes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Bealman on January 16, 2018, 08:51:00 am
3mm doesn't bother me either. What looks right is right. If the scenery and atmosphere of the layout gives a sense of satisfaction when viewed, then goal achieved.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 16, 2018, 08:53:34 am
Half a mill, nope, you’re right. 3mm on the track width? Bit different. Well done for being dismissive though.

Z scale track is too narrow for meter gauge in 1/150 anyway (splitting hair much)  ;)

But it is easy to re-gauge the Kato models to Z track (6.5mm). There are 'how to' online and it can be done with common tools. I've done a Kato RSC-2 once for a narrow gauge locomotive.

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 09:11:41 am
Can see that being a decent solution, although obviously a bit of a faff at least the amount of rolling stock one would expect to have would mean it shouldn't be as bad as trying to do 2FS or anything like that for your average UK layout.

Z scale track being 0.17mm out really is splitting hairs as you say, but would look much better to my mind. I just think it's such a prominent feature of the prototype that I'd want to try and replicate.

Odd really, I'm not offended by OO or N gauge track (with standard gauge models) in the same way!

Completely moot at the end of the day, the chances of me building a layout are slim to none, I've already got one layout I never do anything on!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Bealman on January 16, 2018, 09:34:30 am
Issue over, then.  :thumbsup: :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 16, 2018, 09:53:25 am
Trying hard not to be accused of resurrection, but for those keen to see Kato N scale RhB using an approximation of metre gauge tracking, there is always the well respected portal of AB Modell - Anja Bange Modellbau, where, for a price, you can buy all sorts of goodies, spares or complete models, many of them special editions. These use 6.5mm Z Gauge tracking, and list as Nm scale. They do regular N Kato items too.

http://www.n-schmalspur.de/ (http://www.n-schmalspur.de/)

But as George says, this oft-repeated issue is over. I hope.

 :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 10:00:27 am
Well it isn't over it's not something you'll "fix", but I'm not the one perpetuating the discussion, and I remain interested in the range, hence my ongoing participation here.

That the track gauge is wrong is just one of those things. There are many products there are flaws with, this is just one. I'm not sure why people are so uppity about it. It is wrong. That doesn't matter to many, it does to some. Let's move on with discussing the range, but dismissive posts about "it's only half a mil" are rude and incendiary.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 16, 2018, 10:17:24 am
Issue over, then.  :thumbsup: :beers:

 :beers:  can we get one with Guinness ?

R.I.P Dolores, gone too soon   :'(

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 16, 2018, 10:21:50 am
The problem with adopting Z scale (1:220) gauge track is that seemingly the range is limited and the sleeper spacing is wrong so really your down to building your own track. Now I've got a whole load of Atlas code 55 I could assasinate but because life is too short, especially at my age so I'll accept Peco N gauge track and probably mix their Set track and code 80 electrofrog. Peco Set track curved points look a space saver and RhB stock won't look that silly going over them. The great thing about Peco N gauge track is that the design is so hopelessly unlike anything anywhere in the world you can use it and it still looks right, on a dark night with your eyes half open etc. You know what I mean. Now if somebody did an RhB specific track range at 6.5mm gauge with a small range of scale turnouts, well that's a fish of a different colour but I don't want to bury my layout in snow just to disguise the sleeper spacing.

I'm done on this part of the subject! But I'm sure we will come back to it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 16, 2018, 10:31:47 am
That the track gauge is wrong is just one of those things. There are many products there are flaws with, this is just one. I'm not sure why people are so uppity about it. It is wrong.

Grown up in Switzerland I have had early Bemo models, back in the day when they were affordable (according to my salary). Nowadays I live on the other side of the world and I am very happy Kato came out with their affordable 1/150 scale models. I do not have a layout yet, one reason is that I am not sure yet if I will go 9mm track or hand laid 6,666666666667mm (there it is again) ;) or the easy way out and use Rokuhan Z scale. For the moment I am busy designing all sorts of billboard liveries for the Ge 4/4 II and III. Model railroading is fun and I like it, much.

steve       
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 11:15:47 am
Totally agree, although less of that model "railroading" here ;-)

We're all excited that Kato have come out with this range, hence our participation in this thread, I suspect 90% of posts are by about 5 people. That's why it's a shame to get to a point where people feel they're being attacked on their stance.

The problem with adopting Z scale (1:220) gauge track is that seemingly the range is limited and the sleeper spacing is wrong so really your down to building your own track.

Well it's a question of which compromise you prefer, but yes, as with anything if you want true high-fidelity track then building it yourself is the best (/only) way. At the end of the day, as others have said, Peco N is a compromise anyway, in every respect, but it's still what most UK-based modellers (myself included) use anyway.

For some reason I don't remotely understand this appears to be a very sensitive issue. So, moving on... I wonder if someone like Adam from Electra vinyls could/would do overlays for the various advertising liveries, just like the real thing. I would guess demand/production run size would be the issue, but his latest vinyls are very good IMO.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on January 16, 2018, 05:48:54 pm
the thread has been unlocked due to public demand.

Caveat scriptor!

Rule One lives.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 17, 2018, 09:26:24 am
Thanks all for this interesting discussion! I don't think that locking the thread was necessary ... :no:


The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there

Ge4/4 IIIs (and most RHB stock) do have a single buffer as you well know. Length over buffers is a standard metric, and shouldn’t include couplers or anything like that. It’s not the end of the world, it’s close, but they are short.

In Europe, on stock outfitted with Mittelpufferkupplungen ("center-buffer couplings"; commonly Scharfenberg type) the couplings are indeed included in length over buffers measurements (they are the buffers there, after all).

But the model couplings are usually oversized, so measuring the bodyshell length, as Gordon said, is certainly a better way of scaling a model. With length over buffers the manufacturers can cheat - I remember the Minitrix Taurus which was based on another chassis (BR 152?) and was too long. But with shortening the buffers and crash element boxes, they produced the "correct" LüP. ;)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 17, 2018, 09:43:57 am
Thanks all for this interesting discussion! I don't think that locking the thread was necessary ... :no:


The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there

Ge4/4 IIIs (and most RHB stock) do have a single buffer as you well know. Length over buffers is a standard metric, and shouldn’t include couplers or anything like that. It’s not the end of the world, it’s close, but they are short.

In Europe, on stock outfitted with Mittelpufferkupplungen ("center-buffer couplings"; commonly Scharfenberg type) the couplings are indeed included in length over buffers measurements (they are the buffers there, after all).

But the model couplings are usually oversized, so measuring the bodyshell length, as Gordon said, is certainly a better way of scaling a model. With length over buffers the manufacturers can cheat - I remember the Minitrix Taurus which was based on another chassis (BR 152?) and was too long. But with shortening the buffers and crash element boxes, they produced the "correct" LüP. ;)

Yep, that certainly makes sense, particularly MUs as fewer and fewer have buffers (even in the UK) but again, Ge4/4s don't have Scharfenberg couplers (what do they have?! Are they still screw links?), and do have buffers. It's pretty moot, we really are talking tenths of a mm on the model at that point!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 17, 2018, 09:57:43 am
No, the narrow-gauge couplers are not Scharfenbergs. But all these couplings are still referred to as Mittelpufferkupplungen, so I am sure that the couplings are included in the LüP measurement.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 17, 2018, 10:03:26 am
Ge4/4s don't have Scharfenberg couplers (what do they have?! Are they still screw links?), and do have buffers.

Buffers yes, as in one on each end. On one side of the buffer is a hook, on the other side a screw link.

#651 Fideris (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Ge_4-4_III_651.jpg)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 17, 2018, 10:16:03 am
Just found this link, lots of very interesting pictures (https://twitter.com/calandamountain) about the RhB. (just ignore the login should it pop up)

Have you ever seen this one (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFa6REKXcAEbR54.jpg) before ? (The Ge4/4 III in the making)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 17, 2018, 12:26:36 pm
Good find on the Twitter feed from Lokführer, Steve. :thumbsup: Duly bookmarked, though I shall never join the tweeters.

Nice construction pic too. I wonder if there's video footage anywhere? :hmmm:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on January 17, 2018, 02:49:35 pm
Hi,
As another RhB fan...( and owner of a litte Bemo colection..when they were cheaper :D)  I will buy Kato and others Rhb-ers at two conditions
1) My wallet doesn’t cry!
2) They wil be at proper gauge (6,5 mm.)

Greetings from Italy....where the Rhb begins

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 17, 2018, 07:45:19 pm
No, the narrow-gauge couplers are not Scharfenbergs. But all these couplings are still referred to as Mittelpufferkupplungen, so I am sure that the couplings are included in the LüP measurement.

If this is indeed the case then that does explain the 'discrepancy' and also suggests that the Kato body itself is the correct length
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 17, 2018, 09:48:38 pm
How do you mean?

The prototype is 16m over the buffer/mittelwhatsit (gotta love the Germans!) - there are no couplers protruding further so there’s no ambiguity in the measurement, so the Kato one ‘should’ be 106.7mm excluding any couplers. It’s not, it’s 103mm.

Maybe if you include the rapido couplers it scales to 16m, but that’s obviously pretty daft, and still makes the body too short.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 17, 2018, 10:13:51 pm
so the Kato one ‘should’ be 106.7mm excluding any couplers. It’s not, it’s 103mm.

Maybe if you include the rapido couplers it scales to 16m, but that’s obviously pretty daft, and still makes the body too short.


No need to include the Crapido couplers, they are out of scale in so many ways.  :D

As long as we do not have building blueprints or the exact length of the body we can't be sure that the Kato model is too short. There is no Mittelbuffer on the model so we can't measure the length over buffer on the model. The only thing we can measure for sure is the body length. We need blueprints or someone out there with a measuring tape to measure the length of the real thing.

@Gordon (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=704), next time you are in Graubuenden could you please measure one for us ?  ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 17, 2018, 10:22:16 pm
Ahhhh, the fact there’s no buffer on the model was lost on me, I see Gordon’s point now!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 18, 2018, 06:22:06 am
For clarity, here's a photo of the front end of one of my Kato Ge 4:4 III's. I've set the front of the bodyshell as exactly against the 10cm mark as I can manage, then photographed it from directly above that point. As far as I can tell, with the caveat that a measurement is only as good as the measuring device and the measurers eye, the rear of the body shell coincides with the 20.3cm mark on the rule, making the shell the 103mm quoted.

With 3.7mm to 'find' to make the model 1/150th of the real McCoy, we only need the 'missing' Mittelbuffer to protrude 1.85mm at each end for all to be about right. In my view therefore, it's about right, and I'm happy with that. (Was I ever unhappy about it? :hmmm: Er..... nope! :no:)

Please note that I did not see the point of showing the whole loco against the ruler due to lens parallax problems distorting the perspective.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/5634-180118061141.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=60717)

But as Steve says, without a view of the blueprints of the original (though all sources I find quote the same 16000mm), nothing is certain.

Like life, really. And I'm easy going about that too.