N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Continental N Gauge => Topic started by: Gordon on June 18, 2015, 11:31:43 pm

Title: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 18, 2015, 11:31:43 pm
Kato RhB N gauge Allegra just received - wow!

Dare 'em to do a working RhB Crocodile



Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on June 19, 2015, 09:33:30 am
Good Morning Gordon, Have you had a chance to run it yet, I am sure it wont disappoint I wish that they did a krokodile as there is not much on the Market at the moment. Let us know how it runs. Thank you Babs :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 19, 2015, 11:58:55 pm
I have already run it. I got it on Tuesday and on Wednesday pm ran it round a Unitrack circuit which I temporarily set upalmost every club night at my MRC.

I looks superb and runs well.

It was a tad noisier than I was expecting, but I like that with electric models as it is 'DCC sound' but for free!

During the club evening I immediately swapped the dummy coupling for the provided replacement put it to work hauling my Glacier Express set. I then replicated a train I photted at Bergun, by adding a Ge4/4III to the consist!

Got the first one from Japan but another one has arrived today courtesy Train Trax

Photos to follow






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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on June 20, 2015, 12:49:27 am
Hi, :hellosign:
Many of N Italian gaugers on Nparty forum (and association) have bought it and tested.....they said it is a great model and runners...

Good night frm Italy
Marco Neri
 :ngauge:.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on June 20, 2015, 05:10:01 pm
Hi Gordon I meant to ask does the railcar go up gradients okay. Thank you Babs
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Agrippa on June 26, 2015, 07:51:05 am
Nice pix !
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on June 26, 2015, 08:50:33 am
Very nice indeed what Wonderful layout you have. Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on June 26, 2015, 08:52:48 pm
Looking good and I also like your layout -  vaguely reminiscent of Stalden.

It was the GE that finally pushed me off the fence to actively start something Swiss and N gauge - even if the Kato is an odd scale. I sincerely hope that Kato continue with this scheme and produce something for the Zentrallbahn (Interlaken to Luzern).
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2015, 12:04:10 am
.

Thanks for the complements. I will post more photos of the layout on a separate post.

I should point out that the first and last pictures are actually on the club French layout where the backscene represents the Cote D'Or escarpment south of Dijon.

By the way Babz, I have not tried it on gradients. My layouts tend to have level track with scenery above and below to give depth.

However at the club on Wednesday I had the Allegra hauling a double GEx set (12 coaches of coures!) round Kato 315 radius.

I have also part replicated a train I photted at Bergun, which had an Allegra (on delivery/test) leading Ge4/4III 651 Glacier on Tour, a 6-car GEx set and a standard Chur - St Moritz coach set.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2015, 12:26:51 am
Here's a scratch/bash standard mark 1 coach (I've done three)


(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)





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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on June 27, 2015, 09:35:27 am
Gordon,
           as a newbie, I was very excited by your last photo of the GEX with a 'standard' Rhb coach - as I didn't know that these were available in N. You imply its from a Chur-St Moritz set.

Can I ask who produces these and what the correct coach designation is ? 
(hopefully its not one of the expensive AB Model ones ?) are other variations of this coach style also available ?

Paul
 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: dodger on June 28, 2015, 06:05:03 am
Nice pictures of good looking models.

Have you tried the Allegra or Glacier express on really sharp curves. These vehicles could be the answer for my new layout where I may be limited by insufficient width for even 9 inch radius curves.

Dodger
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 29, 2015, 12:09:39 am
Nice pictures of good looking models.

Have you tried the Allegra or Glacier express on really sharp curves. These vehicles could be the answer for my new layout where I may be limited by insufficient width for even 9 inch radius curves.

Dodger


Both will do Kato's sharper radius curves, down to about the 183 radius. The marketing paperwork for the sets quote the official minimum radius.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on June 29, 2015, 08:43:25 pm
Hi Gordon,
               apologies - I managed to view your picture and hide the section saying the coach was scratch built - DOH !
In fairness, I thought it was commercially produced - greater praise etc.
Very professional job. Whast donor vehicles did you use ?
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: cornish yorkie on July 31, 2015, 12:05:44 am
Hi Gordon superb pictures, all looking really excellent.
regards Derek
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 04, 2015, 10:30:19 pm
.

Just to register in this thread that my article was in the December Continental Modeller.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 04, 2015, 10:53:02 pm
.

RhB Ge4/4III

For those who don't like advertising liveries...but may want their layout scenarios to be realistic.

As I mention in my CM article, RhB Ge4/4 III 644 'Savognin' the first model issue by Kato was in plain red during 1994 and 1995, then in 2011 and 2012.

648 which has been in advertising liveries since 1997, has been plain red during 2015.


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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2016, 12:20:11 am
.

New item 2016: Bernina express coaches




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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Outtenbach on January 13, 2016, 05:45:46 pm
Thanks for the heads up Gordon, that's something to look forward to.................
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k561/swordfishfairey/Bernina%20coaches_zpslxvfp27x.jpg) (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/swordfishfairey/media/Bernina%20coaches_zpslxvfp27x.jpg.html)

Tony
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 14, 2016, 12:30:27 am
.

We can do better than that...

https://picasaweb.google.com/ngauge.information/20160112KATOVol3?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGymYvL9LHd-AE&feat=embedwebsite


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on January 14, 2016, 02:44:58 am
.

We can do better than that...

https://picasaweb.google.com/ngauge.information/20160112KATOVol3?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGymYvL9LHd-AE&feat=embedwebsite


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.

Gives me an "Internal Server Error"...
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Sprintex on January 14, 2016, 04:48:35 am
Link working OK here, some strange-looking grey and yellow train ;)


Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on January 14, 2016, 08:29:20 am
Aha, it wanted me to be logged in to Google.

Another picture here: https://www.facebook.com/modeltrainplus/ (https://www.facebook.com/modeltrainplus/) (no login required)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Outtenbach on January 14, 2016, 01:51:36 pm

Mmmmmmmm! mouth wateringly good. :drool: :drool: :drool:...........

Tony
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on January 14, 2016, 03:34:42 pm
It looks like Kato has realised that they have found a good gap in the market.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of sales go to tourists and what percentage to modellers.
Despite the odd scale - we benefit.

At a recent exhibition, a well known importer of continental goodies told me that Zentalbahn was in discussion with Bemo and Kato to produce the new Zentalbahn stock. Apparently Bemo produce the drawings in CAD for Hom and these are sold to Kato and downscaled to N.

The problem with the Zentralbahn is that the stock is not used by other railways, so model manufacturers can't market several different liveries/repaints so its not a very lucrative product. On the other hand Zentalbahn seems to be one of the few Swiss railways that has any grasp of merchandising. If the ZB cvers more of the upfront costs it might yet happen, lets hope so.
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 06, 2016, 07:19:13 pm
Gordon Have you Preordered  The Kato Bernina Express Elok 74037 And 74038 by any chance from Japan1999. Best Regards
Babz  PsThank you for the Heads up on the Coaches
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 06, 2016, 11:29:10 pm
Gordon Have you Preordered  The Kato Bernina Express Elok 74037 And 74038 by any chance from Japan1999. Best Regards
Babz  PsThank you for the Heads up on the Coaches

No, I can't see them on 1999 Japan, only on German shop sites for the hideous price of Euro 179

odd





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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 07, 2016, 12:19:23 pm
Gordon Thank you, I have sent an Email Asking for to reserve these I will let you know the out come. Babs
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 07, 2016, 11:38:28 pm
I have seen a reference to these locos as 'exclusive for Europe only'.

It is clearly a marketing tie-up with Noch, which is probably bad news for 'us ordinary folk' who have so far been able to obtain this stuff from Japan or Japanese import sources like Gaugemaster and TrainTrax

A clear admission that Europeans are snapping up the concept of Kato 9mm gauge RhB!




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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 09, 2016, 02:48:38 pm
Gordon & anybody who is Interested, It seems you are probably correct, This reply i have in my view is a polite way of saying it. But they are selling the Coaches ??? Babs

Dear Barbara 

Thank you very much for your inquiry.

Regarding the product in question, we have just checked
our inventory but unfortunately we do not deal this item.

As we do not deal the item, unfortunately we are
unable to offer this item for you.

We are very sorry for your inconvenience, but your understanding
of this matter will be greatly appreciated.

If there are any other questions or problems,
please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely Yours,
Keiichi Yokobori

------------------------------------------------
Hobby Search Co., Ltd.
Website: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng)
Smartphone Site: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/ (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/)
Contact: hs-support@1999.co.jp
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 09, 2016, 02:56:54 pm
Going by this list: http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml (http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml) the release date hasn't yet been finalized. It certainly looks like it's being released in Japan, so should be obtainable via Japanese channels after release. I'm overdue for a prowl around the local model shops so will look out for it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 09, 2016, 03:00:11 pm
Hi Railsquid, That would be really great Please keep us Informed. Thank you Babs
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 09, 2016, 11:34:51 pm
Going by this list: [url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url])  It certainly looks like it's being released in Japan,


I'm not so sure. Babz was originally asking about the availability of two new Ge4/4III locos (in yellow - Lazzerini) and red (Heidiland-Bernina).

These are not the same as the Bernina Express coach sets that are being launched.

As far as I can work out the following is what will happen:

set 10-1318 / 10-1319 - these are Allegra railcars with Bernina Express coaches - and will be available in Japan and elsewhere

item numbers 74037/74038 (note the non-kato (i.e. Noch?) references) - Ge4/4III in two new liveries - exclusive for Europe only and will only be available from Noch through German retailers - e.g. they are already showing on Modellbahn Lippe's site.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 09, 2016, 11:51:42 pm
Going by this list: [url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url])  It certainly looks like it's being released in Japan,


I'm not so sure. Babz was originally asking about the availability of two new Ge4/4III locos (in yellow - Lazzerini) and red (Heidiland-Bernina).

These are not the same as the Bernina Express coach sets that are being launched.

As far as I can work out the following is what will happen:

set 10-1318 / 10-1319 - these are Allegra railcars with Bernina Express coaches - and will be available in Japan and elsewhere

item numbers 74037/74038 (note the non-kato (i.e. Noch?) references) - Ge4/4III in two new liveries - exclusive for Europe only and will only be available from Noch through German retailers - e.g. they are already showing on Modellbahn Lippe's site.

Oh sorry, got confused there.

(I must say, apart from the Glacier Express et al, Kato are quite coy about their European range of models, there's a small selection of mainly German stuff in their HQ store but though some stuff turns up 2nd hand I haven't seen any even in shops specializing in overseas models).
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 10, 2016, 12:12:10 am
The Kato situation is not only 'coy' but hideously complex and confusing, there is Kato Lemke or is it Lemke by Kato; Hobbytrain (Kato); Kato by Kato; Hobbytrain (with no mention of Kato), etc etc; and now we have the Noch (by Kato) ! give up!

There are other similarly confusing marketing tie ups becoming common (e.g. Oxford diecast appearing in European scenics ranges despite being 1:148 not 1:160)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Babz on February 10, 2016, 12:02:41 pm
Going by this list: [url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule.shtml[/url])  It certainly looks like it's being released in Japan,


I'm not so sure. Babz was originally asking about the availability of two new Ge4/4III locos (in yellow - Lazzerini) and red (Heidiland-Bernina).

These are not the same as the Bernina Express coach sets that are being launched.

As far as I can work out the following is what will happen:

set 10-1318 / 10-1319 - these are Allegra railcars with Bernina Express coaches - and will be available in Japan and elsewhere

item numbers 74037/74038 (note the non-kato (i.e. Noch?) references) - Ge4/4III in two new liveries - exclusive for Europe only and will only be available from Noch through German retailers - e.g. they are already showing on Modellbahn Lippe's site.

I did Ask Japan1999 For the Reference numbers Kato 74037 & Kato 74038 whis is the Ref Number use on the German MSL site

   
Manufacturer:       KATO
Art.-No.       74037
EAN:       4007246740376
Gauge       N 1:160
Railway Company:       RhB
Era Designation:       IV-VI
Power system       DC
Digital-Decoder:       Nein
Length over buffer:       103 mm
Delivery Date:       Q1/2016
Manufacturer price:       179,99 €

I certainly Knew what i was asking for and they Understood. There are two sets one with the Allegra and one is a 4 coach set with the Bernina Express by Kato. Babs



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Outtenbach on February 12, 2016, 01:26:13 pm
I found this link that looks interesting............ https://twitter.com/katoshoptokyo/status/697011662763618304

Tony
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 12, 2016, 01:56:56 pm
FWIW it says "The coupling fitted is the same as the so-called 'Glacier Express short coupling set'".
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on February 12, 2016, 11:30:02 pm
I think Modellbahn Kramm have some good proces now (€20 0ff) on the new Bernina sets

E-Lok Ge4/4-III 644 LAZZARINI der RhB, in gelb, N-Spur
http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074038 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074038)

E-Lok Ge4/4-III 641 Bernina Express Heidiland der RhB
http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074037 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074037)

Start-Set Bernina Express 5-teilig der RhB, Inhalt: Elektro-Triebwagen Allegra 3-teilig mit neuer Betr.-Nr. und 2 Bernina-Wagen, N-Spur
http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074041 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074041)

Set Ergänzungswagen Bernina Express 4-teilig der RhB
http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074042 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/d/spezial.cfm?fid=450&artnr=7074042)

MBK have always provided me with a very good service.






Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 12, 2016, 11:59:18 pm
Kato seems to have decided that the short coupling is OK as standard (I agree - my sets fitted with the short coupling still go round very tight curves.)

I have used the fact that my Glacier Express coaches are fitted with the short couplings to haul them with an Allegra, also with a short coupling.

I won't be getting the two Ge4/4III as I have already done my own repaints at minimum cost, nor the Allegra set as I already have three. But I might get the extension set of 4 BEX coaches just for the sake of variety.

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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on March 25, 2016, 02:01:51 pm
On offer at DM-Toys

Swiss Alps Glacier Express N Scale Starter Set
Art. No. K10-006
Kato
bargain offer - catalogue price 2013: 199,99 €

Starter Set with all you need! Enlarge the train with K10-1146!

179.99 EUR
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 26, 2016, 09:44:22 pm
On offer at DM-Toys
Glacier Express Starter Set No. K10-006
bargain offer - catalogue price 2013: 199,99 €
179.99

Warning, this is not really a bargain on this occasion.

Same set is available from Train Trax in UK for £140.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: dannyboy on March 26, 2016, 10:14:39 pm
And as £140 is, as makes no difference, €179.99, anyone thinking of buying this set, might as well stick with Keith at Train Trax. Items can be a bit cheaper buying direct from Japan, but then you have to hope that HM Customs don't get too nosy! I have bought most of my Kato stuff from Train Trax and the only problem I ever had was caused by  :censored: Royal Mail!  Usual disclaimer about just being a satisfied customer etc.  :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on March 26, 2016, 11:31:49 pm
I agree buy British ( well Kato from Keith at Train Trax)

I hadn't done the conversion or comparison as I was too lazy busy .

Caveat emptor.

Nick R

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 05, 2016, 12:47:06 am
Interesting to note the following re the two Noch Ge4/4III

One was issued in the yellow Lazzarini livery (loco 644, which is the one Kato did in plain red as their first Ge4/4III and that model is still available.) BTW Kato modelled 644 in plain red because when the model was being developed 644 it was in that livery on the real railway in 2011 and 2012 having previously carried four other advertising liveries)

The other was Heidiland Bernina Express, which was loco 641 but it only carried the Heidiland livery 1995 - 1998, ever since it has been in Co-Op livery .

Now, I have noticed that  Lazzarini version sold very well and is sold out, but the Heidiland version is still available.

By my reckoning the above happened because Lazzarini is a current livery which is what most modellers of this stuff want because the Heidiland livery is too old to match the Glacier Express coaches...

...except (!!!!!)...

the Lazzarini livery is no more...644 has been repainted red in a new plain RhB livery not seen  before.



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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 05, 2016, 05:43:30 pm
Many thanks Gordon, both for the info and for the impetus to get me looking for a shot of the new livery.

Here's what I found:

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/schweiz~rhaetische-bahn~e-loks-ge-4-4-iii/965154/ge-44-644-savognin-im-neuen.html (http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/schweiz~rhaetische-bahn~e-loks-ge-4-4-iii/965154/ge-44-644-savognin-im-neuen.html)

I suspect this website is nothing new to you, but I was really pleased to find it, and soon found it had such a wealth of photos of the Rhb line and stock.

Hopefully it will be new to others like me.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 06, 2016, 01:36:47 am

I suspect this website is nothing new to you, .


Indeed not, and for some RhB photos taken on 14 September, I saw the photographer taking them!

BTW, you ain't seen nothin' yet...

start drooling

ready?...

http://www.haribu.ch (http://www.haribu.ch)





.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 06, 2016, 08:16:45 am
Lucky man.

Now don't tell me you've got a picture of ........... 8)  :jawdropping:

My my! :D

I look forward to it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 09, 2016, 01:52:34 pm
Hi Gordon, it seems the link in your last post wasn't showing when I read it, hence my evidently rather odd reply above.* I see the link now and thank you for the excellent link to all those lovely Swiss locos and other rolling stock. Superb. :thumbsup:

I am still awaiting delivery of my GE Unesco model and understand that Digitrax do a suitable digital decoder. However, I am struggling to find one for the Allegra EMU. Have you managed to source one?

*- there is of course the possibility that I'm a victim of creeping senility and just didn't see your link. :uneasy:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 10, 2016, 12:28:39 am

I am still awaiting delivery of my GE Unesco model and understand that Digitrax do a suitable digital decoder. However, I am struggling to find one for the Allegra EMU. Have you managed to source one?

Having held off the Unesco set as I was busy repainting original red 644s from the original wave of GEX sets that I got dirt cheap when they first came out, I saw one on sale at the Folkestone show last week so decided to buy it before any more silly falls in the £...

Sorry, I'm not into Digital so cannot help. With elctric outline models I'm happy with the natural hum that traction units have in N gauge, so I don't feel the need for any more sound.


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Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 18, 2016, 01:36:10 pm
Saw this item dated 11/10/2016 on Bahnonline.ch today about the GE 4/4 III loco variation liveries. I don't remember seeing the 'Die Kleine Rote' version on the n model 650 before. All listed at €179.99, and confirming the Lazzarini is now no longer available.

http://www.noch.de/pdf/ueber-noch/handelsmarken/kato/2016/08-2016/Update-08-2016_Endverbraucher.pdf (http://www.noch.de/pdf/ueber-noch/handelsmarken/kato/2016/08-2016/Update-08-2016_Endverbraucher.pdf)

And available here

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/KATO/36-2-005001-269049-0-0-0-36-11-2-0-gatt-gb-h-0/produkt.html (http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/KATO/36-2-005001-269049-0-0-0-36-11-2-0-gatt-gb-h-0/produkt.html)

Seems this was probably a press release from August, so apologies if it is old news.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 18, 2016, 11:10:45 pm
Saw this item dated 11/10/2016 on Bahnonline.ch today about the GE 4/4 III loco variation liveries. I don't remember seeing the 'Die Kleine Rote' version on the n model 650 before. All listed at €179.99, and confirming the Lazzarini is now no longer available.

Seems this was probably a press release from August, so apologies if it is old news.


AAgh [expletive deleted!] this is a complete surprise to me - and I'm supposed to be the expert on the stuff!

I don't recall the 'Kleine Rote' or 'Coop' being mooted.

I'm irritated as well as surprised, as members probably know from previous posts I did a home repaint to create a Coop loco. Now (as so often when us modellers do a scratch or kit build only for it to be followed by a ready to run issue) I'm feeling a little deflated.

The 'irritated' feeling comes from the fact that, ideally,  what we need from  Kato is ready to run versions of the complex advertising liveries. The Kleine Rote is mainly red with lettering, Coop is mainly white with lettering, and Lazzerini was mainly yellow with some lettering.

Kato would better serve us if they produced the intricate such as 'RhB Team' or 'Hockey Club Davos' and particularly '20 Minuten'








(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/704-181016230703.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=44688)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 08:34:45 am
Ah, but you do have the satisfaction and joy of having done the conversion yourself, as well as keeping at least €148.00 in your bank account.

I came across this news completely by accident as I was idly surfing the Net looking for supply of individual Bernina Express carriages. As you know the 5 car powered set by Kato has the Allegra EMU 'Friedrich Hennings' plus two carriages, Car 4: Type Api 1304 - 1st Class panorama coach, and Car 5: Type Bps 2515 - 2nd Class panorama coach. I already have the 4 car add on set but wanted to find these two to use behind my ''Willem Jan Holsboer' EMU as well. No luck though.

I did note some weeks ago that AB Modellen did a Coop loco but this was, I think, their own mod and very pricey, as are all their mods, a fact I think you mentioned earlier.

I agree with you that Kato-Noch are taking the easy paint job/logo approach to their mods. It would be nice to see more complex editions, though my bugbear at the moment is the lack of other Rhb stock in general from any source. I would really like to see some GE 4/4 II's, earlier coaches, and of course a baby Krokodil. Oh yes, and a Swiss steam loco like Rhaetia. One day maybe.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 08:43:50 am
The 'irritated' feeling comes from the fact that, ideally,  what we need from  Kato is ready to run versions of the complex advertising liveries. The Kleine Rote is mainly red with lettering, Coop is mainly white with lettering, and Lazzerini was mainly yellow with some lettering.

Kato would better serve us if they produced the intricate such as 'RhB Team' or 'Hockey Club Davos' and particularly '20 Minuten'

Isn't that what 'you want', not what 'we need'? Quite different! The same factors that make the more intricate liveries harder to recreate for your average punter at home are also going to be relevant for Kato themselves. As they're not really aiming these at the serious modellers why bother to go to the hassle of making a hash of the more complex liveries!?

They're nice models, but not exactly an accurate hi-fidelity scale model, and surely if you want top quality RhB models you look to Bemo, who tend to be very responsive on all the advertising liveries.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 09:17:35 am
The 'irritated' feeling comes from the fact that, ideally,  what we need from  Kato is ready to run versions of the complex advertising liveries. The Kleine Rote is mainly red with lettering, Coop is mainly white with lettering, and Lazzerini was mainly yellow with some lettering.

Kato would better serve us if they produced the intricate such as 'RhB Team' or 'Hockey Club Davos' and particularly '20 Minuten'

Isn't that what 'you want', not what 'we need'? Quite different! The same factors that make the more intricate liveries harder to recreate for your average punter at home are also going to be relevant for Kato themselves. As they're not really aiming these at the serious modellers why bother to go to the hassle of making a hash of the more complex liveries!?

They're nice models, but not exactly an accurate hi-fidelity scale model, and surely if you want top quality RhB models you look to Bemo, who tend to be very responsive on all the advertising liveries.

An interesting viewpoint re the liveries but one i must say I can't agree with, particularly as complex Rhb model logo printing will be no more difficult for Kato/Noch than anything else they currently produce, and they don't make a 'hash' of them any more than many other manufacturers do.

Also, as I am currently looking to increase my Rhb and other Swiss metre gauge stock,  I thank you for for the heads up to Bemo but I must confess I am struggling to find anything other than diesel railcars by them in N Gauge for Swiss items, and nothing at that scale for Rhb. Can you point me to a supplier. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 09:42:56 am
Bemo are HOm, rather than N. But my point is that the Kato models aren't N either, they're arbitrarily scaled up to 1:160, meaning they almost lose their narrow gauge proportions.

Of course there's a level of risk associated with more detailed liveries, the resolution of the printing becomes an issue. Looking at "20 minuten" there's a lot of very fine writing which may not recreate nicely in N gauge. Hornby said they wouldn't do First Great Western's "local lines" livery due to the inability to get the tiny writing to look right.

It may not be a reason at all, but IMO to expect a manufacturer to only produce the most complex liveries is to miss the point somewhat.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 10:14:41 am
Okay, sadly another avenue to find good metre gauge Swiss stock closes for me. Ah well, I enjoyed the look at Bemo's HO stuff, particularly the Krokodil kit.

I accept that complexities at small scale may be a little lost or overly simplified, but my skills are such that even a poor representation is better than what I could produce. In truth, what i am looking for are memories and nostalgia on a layout, so a loco I have had personal contact with means more than most, and it is the ones in real life that stand out from the crowd that get noticed more. So if a model manufacturer produces that stand-out livery, accurately or not, I may well choose it if it has a meaning for me.
I believe that memory and meaning is the driving force behind Kato's marketing of its European range, given the high number of Japanese tourists I've met on my travels in Switzerland eager to buy a souvenir.  Marketing to Europe, and worldwide, is I suspect an afterthought in some respects.
Even those liveries that have been produced by Kato are often as not a short-lived identity for the real locos involved, so I am hopeful that, over time and with push from Noch, more liveries,  complex or not, are sure to appear from Kato. Maybe some will have meaning for me for both past and future memories.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 10:43:29 am
Okay, sadly another avenue to find good metre gauge Swiss stock closes for me. Ah well, I enjoyed the look at Bemo's HO stuff, particularly the Krokodil kit.

I accept that complexities at small scale may be a little lost or overly simplified, but my skills are such that even a poor representation is better than what I could produce.

I'm sure that's the case for virtually of us without a tampo printer and lots of patience! But can you really imagine Kato releasing a "poor representation" of a loco, when they have literally dozens of other liveries they could go at without any such complexity? 99% of people will rather have an excellent representation of an ostensibly simple livery, rather than a bad representation of a more complex one. I reckon the number of people repainting these locos will be countable on one hand! It's a niche of a niche of a niche!

Like I say, they're nice, I imagine Kato are surprised by the success, AFAIK they were done for the 'train set' Japanese tourist market (hence the weird scale, colossal gap between coaches, only offering the Glacier Express coaches etc). It'll be interesting to see how far they expand the range. Swisscom was probably my favourite, with the skier.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on October 19, 2016, 10:56:48 am
A while back a member mentioned to me that Zentralbahn were discussing with Kato a set of their modern stock - of course only one livery possible - anyone heard any more about that.

Years ago I was chatting to the folk who run MITV and made all the excellent Swiss railway videos - they spent a lot of time over there and had many railway friends - but were permanently exasperated at the inability of the various railways to see the possibilities of merchandising.

Personally I can only recall Arosa station having some Arosa Bemo stock.  Full marks to Kato and I hope they keep expanding the range.

Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 10:58:59 am
There's an LGB GE 4/4 iii at the worksite adjacent to the new Albula tunnel. Would be good to have a proper layout somewhere!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 11:32:49 am
Yes, Kato do a good job, such as it is, and judging by the fact that a German retailer does lots of mods on their Rhb stuff - new motors, interiors, even new improved motor enhancements - and even a GE4/4 in MOB livery and two 'representative' coaches - there is a fair demand in Europe for Swiss outline.

Sadly outside of Kato such as is produced is mainly restricted at N Gauge to SBB mainline stuff and until the likes of Fleischmann take greater notice of the demand then Kato is what we have to deal with. I like the fact that they are noting the issues with their products, such as the introduction of the Allegra with close coupling as standard, and the availability of close coupling kits for other stock such as the GE.
And there is a demand in Switzerland itself. In Buellers shop in Interlaken when I have visited and enquired on this very subject I have been repeatedly told "We often get asked that." I firmly believe there is a large worldwide market waiting, waiting.

I also heard of the possibility of Zentralbahn stock - a much travelled line by me and SWMBO - but I believe it came to nought. Gordon may have better knowledge on that.

Now if we can just have a good manufacture producing the MOB, MZB, Jungfraubahn and Wengeneralpbahn stuff (the list is longer), including cog wheel locos and track - then I shall quit this life a happy happy man.

Okay, dream over. :D
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 19, 2016, 11:59:36 am
I'm not so sure there is a huge untapped market myself. The layouts don't need to be very space hungry - it's not like you get a 4-track main line with 50 wagon freights. HOm is just vastly more popular for Swiss narrow gauge. I wonder if Zm would be more popular than Nm, or even using Z gauge track.

Kato stuff isn't the answer for the serious modeller, it looks a bit daft next to mainline Swiss stuff (as it's the same size), whilst HOm looks right next to HO (as it would). I love the idea of doing a decent Swiss HO/HOm layout, but I don't think the Kato stuff is really going to have the breadth of appeal to make it a viable prospect for a huge range.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 19, 2016, 08:01:43 pm
HOm available items look great, especially for Rhb, and also I note MOB and some FO/BVZ. However, the problem(s) for me are essentially threefold: cost; space; and practicality.

Cost: HOm is simply beyond my budget in the long term as the price of individual items is much greater than similar at N scale.

Space: I only have a limited space available for a layout so at HOm I would be greatly reducing the extent and scope of any plans I might have. In short, I could not achieve the desired effect.

Practicality: I have a desire to depict both metre gauge and standard gauge running on the same layout. However - back to cost again - I  cannot justify the expense of having two separate track gauges in the same layout, thus denying me the possibility of running a particular loco or set on all of the available rail length. Okay, so accuracy is lost, but life is a compromise and this is one compromise I would need to make. Of course I would also be really struggling with factor 2, practicality, if I took the two-gauge approach.

As far Z or Zm: what! With these tires old eyes! :o Well, the one of them that works properly.  :D

So it's Kato for me for now with its compromise of metre gauge Rhb stock running on standard gauge tracks, and maybe some SBB from Fleischmann when I can afford the RE460 'My Switzerland' (if I can still find one) and a few other goodies I have my eye on.

Or am I dreaming again?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 20, 2016, 06:41:17 am
I'm still confused what makes you the voice of the people. I may want specific liveries. Their complexity isn't entirely relevant. I don't need anything. It's a toy train. You're still telling me what I need though.

I will appraise a purchase on the strength of whether I want the product. Clearly  there are a number of factors in that decision, chief among yours is the complexity of that livery. Not mine. 

I've not seen an exhibition layout using the Kato stuff yet, admittedly I've not actively looked beyond the exhibitions I've visited, and the forums. Would be interested to if you have some links though?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on October 23, 2016, 12:48:12 am
NEW

Electric locomotive Ge4/4 III 641 coop, RhB, N-gauge

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/941-231016004754.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=44784)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 23, 2016, 09:40:45 am
Thanks RG for the great image of one of the new 4/4 liveries announced recently. Here's the other, 'Die kleine rote":

(http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/article_data/images/36/269049_b.jpg)

Both images nicely show the usual good attention to detail and quality Kato  manages to bring to these fine models. Shame about the lack of close couplers that I would have hoped Kato would be fitting as standard now instead of supplying as  a conversion kit. Maybe both types are included in the package. Hope so.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on October 23, 2016, 11:56:53 am
Thanks RG for the great image of one of the new 4/4 liveries announced recently. Here's the other, 'Die kleine rote":

([url]http://www.suter-meggen.ch/Spur%20N/kato/sortiment/bilder/7074040_900.jpg[/url])

Both images nicely show the usual good attention to detail and quality Kato  manages to bring to these fine models. Shame about the lack of close couplers that I would have hoped Kato would be fitting as standard now instead of supplying as  a conversion kit. Maybe both types are included in the package. Hope so.


Isn't this an Horribly Oversized model??
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on October 23, 2016, 12:33:33 pm
That one certainly looks like a Bemo one.

How much do the close couplers compromise the clearance on curves?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 23, 2016, 12:38:41 pm

Isn't this an Horribly Oversized model??

Yep! Seems my attempt to post the right image went wrong not once but twice. :doh:

Just blame the drugs! :D

I've corrected it now in the original post. Thanks for the heads up RG. :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 23, 2016, 12:44:38 pm

How much do the close couplers compromise the clearance on curves?

At present I am still waiting a delivery of close coupler sets so I can't comment on the GE 4/4's, but those that came factory fitted to my Allegra EMU are presenting no clearance problems even on Kato's rather over-tight 150mm radius curves. On greater radii there are of course no issues.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 25, 2016, 11:46:17 pm


How much do the close couplers compromise the clearance on curves?

Zero. Everything is designed to go round the 183 radius, even the 150 although it starts to look a touch unprototypical round the 150

The close couplers come with sets of shorter inter-coach gangway 'bellows' so that, once one has both Arnold and close couplings available,  one has a choice of using :

Arnold type couplings with a 'long' bellows' on each coach
close couplings with short bellows on one coach and long bellows on the other coach
Close couplings with short bellows on each coach (best for the tightest radius)



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on October 29, 2016, 07:12:19 pm
DM-Toys list 3 variants

https://www.en.dm-toys.de/liste/items/Kato_7074039/bahngesellschaft/privat.html (https://www.en.dm-toys.de/liste/items/Kato_7074039/bahngesellschaft/privat.html)

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 31, 2016, 12:41:23 am
DM-Toys list 3 variants

Yes, that's right. Three versions are currently available from various retailers, but only Co-op and Die Kleine Rote are new releases:

The sequence of release can be be seen from the reference numbers, they go up in sequence; the 'Die Kleine Rote' 650 ref 7474040 being their 'latest' release (although actually at the same time as the Co-op. ie a few days ago)

The 641 'Bernina Express' was released earlier in the year (hence the lower ref number 7074037

The missing ref number 7074038 was the 'Lazzerini' yellow livery version that sold out quickly earlier this year - a subject that we have already discussed earlier this year.




.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on November 02, 2016, 11:44:04 am
close couplers available here

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-28-186-close-coupler-set-for-glacier-express (http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-28-186-close-coupler-set-for-glacier-express)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34824.msg405548#msg405548 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34824.msg405548#msg405548)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 03, 2016, 12:03:03 am
close couplers available here


Only problem is this is another Japanese retailer, so the usual UK Post office inbound charges risk applies.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 03, 2016, 08:15:31 am
You mean HMRC charges? They're under £15, so exempt.

May I ask why the full stop after every post?





.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on November 03, 2016, 07:32:06 pm
Grammar?  :confused1:.

 Sorry if got the wrong end of the stick.

Weave,  :beers:.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on November 03, 2016, 07:46:11 pm
Grammar?  :confused1:.

 Sorry if got the wrong end of the stick.

Weave,  :beers:.

I think njee means the odd one that sits all lonesome like about four lines beneath the post text. Like this



.

 :D

It's an odd point. ;D. Or is it a point of order? Whatever it is, you could say Gordon has a point. :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on November 03, 2016, 07:52:31 pm
Ah yes, I see now.

Thank you daffy.

That's not a full stop, it's a space station.

I'll get my glasses, coat and go to the pub  :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 05, 2016, 12:35:09 am
You mean HMRC charges? They're under £15, so exempt.

No, I mean the (cheekily applied) post office or parcel force  charges. Whenever I have received purchases from Japan, I have had to visit, in person - and therefore not always convenient as the venues are often hidden deep in industrial estates - the postal office site to pay the post office or parcel force 'handling fee'. This has never been a customs fee.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 05, 2016, 12:38:23 am
I think njee means the odd one that sits all lonesome like about four lines beneath the post text.

Correct. I do it because I find that otherwise the last sentence of the post can become jumbled up with the various footer items that get automatically attached to posts.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 05, 2016, 12:52:44 am
as members probably know from previous posts I did a home repaint to create a Coop loco. Now (as so often when us modellers do a scratch or kit build only for it to be followed by a ready to run issue) I'm feeling a little deflated.

Decided to purchase the Co-op livery lok and it arrived today.

Very nice.

Compared to my repaint it has the big advantage of a professional paint job, which has been executed superbly, and especially the name and town shield and solebar lettering which was impossible to create tidily for my repaint.

Kato box carries 'normal' Kato style card insert with Kato branding and cat number 'Kato 7074039' but with additional Noch branding on the bottom only, plus the box has two small Noch stickers slapped on two sides of the exterior with cat number  'Noch 74039'

I now plan to re-repaint my Co-op into another 'easy' livery - probably the all over green 'A&M AG'. 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 05, 2016, 07:03:43 am
There will only be a Post Office/Parcelforce "handling fee" (which I agree is a pain) when there are import charges due. They don't arbitrarily charge fees on all items from overseas. As these are below the threshold for duty, they will also be exempt from the associated handling fees.

It's often pot luck whether you're charged anyway, although far less common to get away with it these days.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on November 05, 2016, 08:22:55 am

Decided to purchase the Co-op livery lok and it arrived today.

Very nice.

Compared to my repaint it has the big advantage of a professional paint job, which has been executed superbly, and especially the name and town shield and solebar lettering which was impossible to create tidily for my repaint.

Kato box carries 'normal' Kato style card insert with Kato branding and cat number 'Kato 7074039' but with additional Noch branding on the bottom only, plus the box has two small Noch stickers slapped on two sides of the exterior with cat number  'Noch 74039'

Thanks for the detail Gordon on your nice new loco. Was this from one of the German retailers such as DM-toys or AB Modellen?
I'm thinking of oredering Die Kleine Rote before Christmas so would be interested in costs and charges incurred.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 05, 2016, 11:04:47 am
Germany being in the EU means no additional charges. Only relevant for non-EU purchases, for now!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on November 05, 2016, 11:20:08 am
Germany being in the EU means no additional charges. Only relevant for non-EU purchases, for now!

My post was too vague as what I meant was the p&p charges and loco cost.  :)
Suppose I should have just looked them up, but for some reason I keep getting 'cannot connect to server' this morning. Took me 5 tries just to post this. Heigh ho! Ain't t'internet lovely! >:(
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 07, 2016, 12:53:47 am
Was this from one of the German retailers?

Yes, from Germany

I don't buy from AB as their system is far too complex, and I'm not keen on their pricing.

For the others, it is best to shop around as there are so many good German retailers and their deals are very varied and one person's favourite shop might not be another's.

I always research the catalogue number of a desired item first, then , separately, do an internet search for the make and cat number eg 'Faller 745677'

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 07, 2016, 07:02:06 am
 And use Google.de to search just German retailers.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on November 07, 2016, 08:56:40 am
Thanks to you both. :)

Just like the UK then - good and bad deals abound on different days.

I had noted AB seem rather expensive, though their PDF pages are interesting to see details of what's available, spares etc.

I'll keep checking .de and .ch sites until I see a total price I like - I'm in no hurry other than to keep ahead of another possible price hike given the fluidity of the financial markets.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on November 08, 2016, 01:48:28 am
And use Google.de to search just German retailers.

I tend to leave the search more open in case there are cheap deals from, say, a Spanish retailer. I got some great deals on Minitrix SNCF and DB N wagons a few years ago from Spain -  and - when one arrived with me faulty (sealed in original packaging but on opening found the plastic to be warped out of shape) it was replaced without question or request for the defective one to be returned, so I got a  new wagon and some free spare parts!

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on November 09, 2016, 11:42:21 am
Using a local Google site doesn't limit results to being from that country (unless you actively select that), it just means it prioritises them. Just as you get some European results when you search Google.co.uk.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on November 10, 2016, 02:38:13 pm
close couplers available here

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-28-186-close-coupler-set-for-glacier-express (http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-28-186-close-coupler-set-for-glacier-express)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34824.msg405548#msg405548 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34824.msg405548#msg405548)

The couplings have arrived safely yesterday , nothing to pay, registered post ( cheap air post ISTR)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/941-101116143448.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=45344)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 01, 2017, 01:16:04 pm
Ge4/4 II, "Albula" mk3 and passenger coaches on their way in 2018 (http://media.noch.de/filestore/1/1/5/5/4_86f0937cba7be48/11554_5a896b62c52fefc.pdf).

Edit: Page 34/35
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 01, 2017, 03:14:22 pm
Thanks njee,  :thumbsup:looks like something to look forward to in the second half of 2017 for the Einheitswagen (EW 1) carriages and the Ge 4/4 III in the livery of '100 Jahre Albula und Ruinaulta', and Spring 2018 for the Ge 4/4 II in what looks like either red or green livery. Looking forward to the EW I's and the 4/4 II especially.

Details are on pages  34 and 35 of the PDF of Nochs new stuff for 2017 that the link takes you to.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on February 01, 2017, 03:59:00 pm
Am I correct in thinking the  EW 1 coaches are the same as used on the Berner Oberland Bahn ?

Anyone have any hint that they might be produced in BoB livery or is that unrealistic ?

Thank
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 01, 2017, 04:01:50 pm
Very unrealistic I imagine. The Kato RhB range was designed for the Japanese Tourist market, and has been expanded after proving an unlikely success. Don't expect this to mean Kato are doing some weird Nm hybrid of all narrow gauge railways now.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 01, 2017, 04:59:27 pm
Details in English re the Kato/Noch new Ge4/4 III:

KATO - 100 Years ALBULA and RUINAULTA

Quote
Ge 4/4 III Rhätische Bahn® Locomotive

For 100 years the RhB is operating the line from Reichenau to Ilan. The 19 km (12 mile) long line through the deep, narrow Upper Rhine valley (Ruinaulta) crosses 14 bridges and drives straight through 3 tunnels. Today, it remains one of the masterpieces of railway engineering. 2003 the Albula line, with its remarkable helical tunnels (to gain altitude) and vertiginous bridges, including the famous Landwasser Viaduct, also celebrated its 100th founding year. To celebrate these anniversaries, Ge 4/4 III No. 642 was repainted and lettered with a stylized rendering of the Albula line which gave this loco the nickname »Spaghetti Loco«. It's a special loco, deserving a special place on your layout.

Expected release: Second half year 2017

Model Features:
Minimum accessible radius: R150
Maximum gradient: 5 %
Digitization with Digitrax-Decoder Ref. 70DN63K4A (not included)
Short coupler mounted (Standard accessory Arnold Coupler 2 pcs.)
Operating headlights
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 01, 2017, 05:05:13 pm
Now found an English version of the Noch new items release notes

http://www.noch.com/en/catalogue/2017/new-items/files/mobile/index.html#34 (http://www.noch.com/en/catalogue/2017/new-items/files/mobile/index.html#34)

I'm finding it a bit flakey when loaded. :(

Try this indirect link:

http://www.noch.com/ (http://www.noch.com/)
 Then click on the 'New Items Leaflet' link at the left hand side of the page, not the 1/02/2017 ' Noch News item 2017' link.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 02, 2017, 12:40:25 am
I've been out at my model railway club this evening so missed this!

The irony is that I have been working on my Kato RhB stuff as my layout is now booked to be on show at Eurotrack Southampton at the end of February (and in Continental Modeller soon).

On it (grrrr) I have a batch of EWI and EWII coaches built from Shapeways kits...

To sum up:

The EWI coaches are planned for second half of 2017.
The Ge4/4III in another livery as number 642 when it carried the 100 jahre Albula... livery) (I believe the technical aspects to be no different from the foregoing), also for second half of 2017.
Ge4/4 II spring 2018 (another grrrr, Ive just finished knocking together my Shapeways version)

Note that 642 carried the Albula livery from 2003 - 2008, so can correctly be matched with the Glacier Express coaches (though only representing a time span of 2 years). Since 2008, 642 has carried the 'RhB Team' livery
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 02, 2017, 12:47:57 am
Am I correct in thinking the  EW 1 coaches are the same as used on the Berner Oberland Bahn ?
Anyone have any hint that they might be produced in BoB livery or is that unrealistic ?
Paul

Unrealistic.
The BOB coaches were a different variant of the narrow gauge EWI. The RhB (and some other lines) EW stock has the doors at the very ends of the vehicle. The type of EW used on the BOB (and other lines notably Brünig) is the version that is a straight replica of the 'full size' SBB standard gauge version, with the toilet cubicle and a small luggage space between the door vestibule and the coach end.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on February 02, 2017, 08:58:11 am
Hi Gordon,

Slightly off topic but can't make it to Alton this year but googled the Southampton Eurotrack show you mentioned.

Looks interesting. I know your exhibiting but would you recommend it. It's not too far for me but still a bit of a trek.

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 02, 2017, 11:25:32 am
Hi,
For those are interested in RHB , there are some new freight stake wagons by Pirata models (Italy) that can be seen on New 2017 catalogue, as shown in Nurnberg fair 2017.

http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download (http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download)

Greetings.

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mu17 on February 02, 2017, 12:08:04 pm
BoB................... darn, you are of course absolutely correct Gordon.

However its a compromise I might be prepared to live with, as this is not my prime hobby.
I like to have things correct but realistically life is starting to look a bit too short.

Is there anyone you can suggest who would produce a repaint or decals to re-brand the Rhb coaches ??

Many thanks
Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 02, 2017, 12:50:39 pm
Hi,
For those are interested in RHB , there are some new freight stake wagons by Pirata models (Italy) that can be seen on New 2017 catalogue, as shown in Nurnberg fair 2017.

[url]http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download[/url] ([url]http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download[/url])

Greetings.

Marco


Many thanks Marco. :thumbsup:

Good to see the RhB stuff including the ABe 4/4 III , but also happy to see Art.2130 and its mate Art.2131 -
Quote
SBB TM IV diesel locomotive - Red blue livery - SBB Cargo logo. Finely detailed model body is made of resin with photo etched detail

  :)

Catalogue saved and website bookmarked. :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 02, 2017, 10:20:31 pm
Hi,
For those are interested in RHB , there are some new freight stake wagons by Pirata models (Italy) that can be seen on New 2017 catalogue, as shown in Nurnberg fair 2017.

[url]http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download[/url] ([url]http://www.piratamodels.it/it/content/8-download[/url])


It's right Daffy.. :beers:

Greetings.

Marco


Many thanks Marco. :thumbsup:

Good to see the RhB stuff including the ABe 4/4 III , but also happy to see Art.2130 and its mate Art.2131 -
Quote
SBB TM IV diesel locomotive - Red blue livery - SBB Cargo logo. Finely detailed model body is made of resin with photo etched detail

  :)

Catalogue saved and website bookmarked. :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 03, 2017, 02:06:03 am
Look good, like the mk2. Just need to sort the decals!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 03, 2017, 09:31:05 am
Nice models Gordon :thumbsup:, but not a route I would follow. :no:

I shall stick to r-t-r, at least until I have a lot more experience. :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 04, 2017, 12:42:31 am
My layout now scheduled to appear at Eurotrack in a couple of weeks, and in Continental Modeller.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 05, 2017, 01:05:33 am
Time for a heads up:

Adding the latest announced models, by 2018, Kato will have issued a total of 16 different models (usual disclaimers apply!):

Ge4/4III - 8 versions
Allegra 3-car EMU - 2 versions (different running numbers)
Glacier Express 2006 design coaches - 2 versions
Bernina Express coaches
EWI (as just announced)
Ge4/4II (2 versions just announced)

8 versions of the Ge4/4III are/will have been available. In brackets in the list below are the date periods during which the locos ran in this livery on the RhB. Those who like time period realism on layouts  should note some of the dates carefully as some combinations will be unrealistic, for example Heidiland Bernina should not run with the Glacier Express coaches as the latter have only run since 2006. This may explain why it has sold less well than the Lazzarini issued at the same time. Also, most obviously the three 'duplicated' locos with the same number shouldn't really be operating at the same time.

641 Heidiland Bernina Express (1995-98)
641 Co-op (1999 - today) BUT the 'fruit and veg' picture  changed in that time
642 Albula / Ruinalta 100 (2003-08)
644 plain red (1994-95 and 2011-12)
644 Lazzarini yellow (2013 - today)
650 Die Kleine Rote (2000 - 2006)
650 Unesco (2007 - today)
651 Glacier on Tour (2005 - today)

As there are only 12 loks in the class, that's not bad!

Finally a couple of other things to note:

I have looked at the possibility of modifying the Allegra 3-car into the 4-car S-Bahn version, but although at first glance it might seem easy, the window/door etc arrangements would require quite a few quite complex modifications.

The new universal driving trailers are very similar to an Allegra coach so Kato may well choose to do one, similarly the AGZ.






.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 05, 2017, 07:03:37 pm
Thanks, a nice summary Gordon, but you inadvertently missed one current Kato model:

650 Die Kleine Rote -  I see from online photos that 650 'Seewis im Prättigau" in carried the Die Kleine Rote livery in 2003-2005, though perhaps you can enlighten on the full date range for this livery.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 07, 2017, 01:03:08 am
Thanks, a nice summary Gordon, but you inadvertently missed one current Kato model:

650 Die Kleine Rote -  I see from online photos that 650 'Seewis im Prättigau" in carried the Die Kleine Rote livery in 2003-2005, though perhaps you can enlighten on the full date range for this livery.

Realised too late that I'd missed that one - just proves the point as to how expansive the range is getting, although the time spans for duplicated numbers is a problem for time-realistic layouts.

The other problem is that I (and my mate also) started working with this Kato GEX stuff as a 'new modelling challenge'. Now that so much is going to be available off the shelf the 'modelling' aspect is diluted for some poeples' tastes.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 07, 2017, 07:23:57 am
Reeeeally?

I'm sure there's enough you can do to maintain "modeller" status - you've complained on here that Kato aren't doing the liveries "we need", so you can't now complain that it's becoming too easy.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 18, 2017, 10:09:25 pm
Hi

I am new to the forum, but have been a railway modeller for some forty years. Now currently modelling N gauge, a couple of years ago I started following the RhB in N. I used to model it in HOm but it got too expensive. I model it in Nm which is not as difficult as you think. I have modified seven GE 4/4 IIIs, two Allegras and various coaches. I have also done a Shapeways ABe 4/4 III railcar using the Tomix chassis as recommended but with wheels from a Kato Allegra re-gauged to Nm - no problem with the gear meshing. I also buy various items from AB Modell. Michael is very helpful, he does supply decals for coaches and also supplied decals for my ABe 4/4 III railcar. Just email him, he accepts PayPal and usually I get the items within 3 or 4 days. Hopefully I will post some photos in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Sprintex on February 18, 2017, 10:22:14 pm
I'd be very interested to see these as it's something I've thought of doing myself, modelling the RhB in Nm :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 19, 2017, 01:46:48 am
Yep, I'd also be interesting to see that, as the gauge inaccuracies annoy me on the Kato stuff.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 07:58:24 am
Here's a link to a site that shows you how to convert N to Nm on both the Kato GE4/4 and Allegr.
 http://www.rhb-nm.ch/tips-tricks/kato-glacier-express/umspuren/ (http://www.rhb-nm.ch/tips-tricks/kato-glacier-express/umspuren/)
Its not a difficult as you think, you just have a lot of filing to do along with some careful shaving with a sharp knife.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 09:45:04 pm
Here are some photos of my Kato GE 4/4 IIIs. All have been fitted with Micro Trains Z scale couplers  and AB Modell etched handrails a little detail that makes all the difference. They are easy to fit as you can get a drilling jig to drill the holes in exactly the right places. Locos are displayed on Rokuhan Z track.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-190217214426.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48828)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 09:46:39 pm
Here is 641
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-190217214634.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48829)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 10:09:28 pm
Here is 646. Decals are by AB Modell. To change the number, carefully rub the old number and name with Brasso metal polish wadding. It will remove them quite easy but be careful not to rub too hard or too big an area, you do not want to remove any of the silver lower body line. After applying the new decals, seal the model with varnish, I use Humbrol satin varnish from an aerosol.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-190217220923.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48830)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 19, 2017, 10:12:42 pm
Here is a head on view of 646 showing how much better the Z scale track looks.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-190217221235.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48831)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 20, 2017, 09:10:13 pm
Here is the RhB ABe 4/4 III railcar. Body is 3D printed from A/K Models on Shapeways. Chassis is a Tomix TM-05R as recommended - I used Kato Allegra wheelsets re-gauged, these fitted perfectly as the Tomix ones are not suitable to re-gauge. The body just clips onto it. Ploughs are spares from Kato GE 4/4 purchased separately, front hoses etc are a mix of Kato and Dapol. Handrails on front are made up and soldered from brass wire. Kato pantographs fitted. Windscreen wipers are left over from a Linea Model E402 kit. Decals are by AB Modell. Micro Trains Z scale couplers.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-200217210950.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48896)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 20, 2017, 09:31:03 pm
Impressive. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 21, 2017, 09:53:32 pm
Here's a freight wagon. AB Modell Kp.w 7501. Built from an etched nickel-silver kit, complete with wheels, decals and couplers. Easy to construct, mostly fold up with minimal soldering. The container is also easy to construct being a simple fold up box for the majority of it. Again, some soldering is necessary. The photo is a bit cruel as the wagon is only 50mm long.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5966-210217215552.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=48916)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on March 08, 2017, 06:56:12 pm
Here is 644. More of a top view to show the extra paint details such as the white panels by the side of the pantographs and the yellow on the end of the pan head. Again, handrails by AB Modell and re-gauged otherwise out of the box.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/5966-080317185603.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=49351)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on March 08, 2017, 06:58:49 pm
Here is 650 in the UNESCO livery featuring the Landwasser Viaduct. Roof details etc painted and handrails by AB Modell. This is number eight in my collection of kato GE 4/4 IIIs
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/5966-080317185841.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=49352)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: 47 years N on April 08, 2017, 07:58:28 pm
I could not throw myself at Kato RhB without them producing "normal" coaches. THEY HAVE ANNOUNCED EW1s  :bounce:

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10459903 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10459903)

Sorry I see this has already been covered but a search for EW1 failed to find a mention on this thread.  Good news that the older electric locomotive will be available next year.  :searchingsign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: 47 years N on April 09, 2017, 03:48:56 pm

I have looked at the possibility of modifying the Allegra 3-car into the 4-car S-Bahn version, but although at first glance it might seem easy, the window/door etc arrangements would require quite a few quite complex modifications.

The new universal driving trailers are very similar to an Allegra coach so Kato may well choose to do one, similarly the AGZ.






.

I have the drawings for the Allegra s bahn version and it is longer as it does not traverse the Bernina!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on April 11, 2017, 01:07:28 am
For the reasons previously mentioned I have ruled out a conversion - I just run my 3 Allegras.

I plan to follow up my forthcoming articles in Continental Modeller with some train formation articles - for which I was able to make useful observations from a stay on the Albula line last week.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on April 11, 2017, 01:17:56 am

Sorry I see this has already been covered but a search for EW1 failed to find a mention on this thread. 

yes, messages #92 - #99 covered the Kato announcement of EWI

Your search for 'EW1' may have failed because most of the mentions in this thread are rendered as either EW 1, or the notation I use (which is the Swiss official style) using roman numerals - ie EWI

And there are also the Shapeways EWII and baggage vans which are easy to use


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on June 01, 2017, 05:44:02 pm
New loco version at Gaugemaster ( sit down before looking!

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K74039&style=&strType=&Mcode=Kato+7074039 (http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K74039&style=&strType=&Mcode=Kato+7074039)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on June 01, 2017, 08:24:21 pm
New loco version at Gaugemaster ( sit down before looking!

[url]http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K74039&style=&strType=&Mcode=Kato+7074039[/url] ([url]http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K74039&style=&strType=&Mcode=Kato+7074039[/url])


Did I have to sit down because it's 'currently in stock and available to ship'?  ;)

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on June 01, 2017, 08:32:49 pm
I bought my Co-op GE 4/4 from eBay from a lady in Italy. I paid £143.00 approx for the loco and £13.00 for DHL shipping - NEXT DAY SHIPPING! Yes, I ordered it on a Wednesday, shipped on the Thursday and I got it on the Friday morning. Hows that for service.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on June 01, 2017, 10:46:48 pm
Looks a better option!

Seller??
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on June 02, 2017, 12:36:56 am
New loco version at Gaugemaster ( sit down before looking!

To clarify:

This is not a new version.

I bought mine around 6 months ago

It is just that Gaugemaster have just got some (more?) in stock.

Current Modelbahnshop Lippe price is Euro 133 (approx £115) which is reasonable even at the '...xit' induced rubbish exchange rate.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 08:22:53 am
Looking on MSL website I can't see the price you quote Gordon. :hmmm:

It's been €159.00 there for some time.

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/KATO/36-2-005001-269048-0-0-0-36-10-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html (http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/KATO/36-2-005001-269048-0-0-0-36-10-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html)

Still better by far than Gaugemaster as MSL p&p is less than €4.00 with orders over €100.00.

I buy most of my Swiss themed items from Germany and delivery times are always good, usually three days from order to in my hand, and with good tracking info throughout from the likes of MSL and DM Toys.

It's thanks to Gordon that I got to know of the German sites, and I would recommend both those I mentioned, though DM Toys have a higher p&p rate that puts them slightly in the shade.

Re exchange rates - need to keep a strong lookout on these as they are changing daily. A few weeks ago I was achieving €1.193 to the £, but today it would be a shade under €1.14. For the loco in question, from MSL, that's a difference of £6.50! I've noticed the drop in rate since the election announcement, so it might  :hmmm: be worth waiting for a week or so to see how things fare. But as I have no crystal ball.......... ;)

Still, I think Metroman, that you got a good price and excellent service. As Railwaygun mentions, it would be nice to know the seller as all have their bargains from time to time and such good service is always sought after.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: weave on June 02, 2017, 08:33:30 am
Hi daffy,

Your link to MSL shows 133 euros to me.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 09:07:43 am
 :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

Now that's just strange. :confused1: Here's a screen shot I've just taken of the page I get:


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/5634-020617090620.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=52377)

Could somebody post a link to the page they get at MSL showing €133 then I can ask MSL why I get what I do.

Edit at 9:30 - A screenshot would be better as I can send MSL both.
Is this a VAT thing, as my screenshot shows VAT inclusive and VAT at 20% on €133.00 gives a total of €159.60 - a close match to what I see. :hmmm:


Most perplexing.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on June 02, 2017, 12:18:14 pm
I am certain this has to do with the tax - maybe if a non-EU IP address is detected then the price without VAT is shown? €133.61 would be the deducted price for €159.00 without the 19% German VAT.
Am I the only one having trouble with the (basic) search function at Lippe? Searching for "Kato Ge" or "Kato 4/4" or "Kato RhB" didn't find anything. ::)  (The article number worked.)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 12:28:26 pm
I would agree Hiawatha if Gordon and Weave are accessing from outside the EU, though I'm not sure they are. Do you get the €159.00 price then?

I've sent an email to MSL and will detail their reply when I get it.

As for searching, I find it very precise, in that you have to put in the search term MSL recognises, which is not always the right one! For instance, it will find "Kato Rhb" but not "Kato RhB".

I have taken to searching by Gauge and then a wider term, like Kato, or SBB, or whatever and even then I often find things not so listed by accident. I think their search system needs improving, though I enjoy turning up the oddities.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ntpntpntp on June 02, 2017, 12:44:02 pm
Here you go: I'm getting the offering for Net export price not VAT incl.

This is from what should be recognised as a UK IP address


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/5885-020617124330.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=52378)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 12:49:42 pm
Thanks Nick. :thumbsup:

That does seem to explain it, though just why they should show that to,a UK IP remains a mystery. Perhaps when they answer my query we'll have an answer.

One of my bugbears is price comparisons where VAT is or is not included. Easy to get led down a garden path until you delve a little deeper.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: red_death on June 02, 2017, 01:06:42 pm
That does seem to explain it, though just why they should show that to,a UK IP remains a mystery. Perhaps when they answer my query we'll have an answer.

It depends on whether the IP address the website is genuinely a UK IP address and whether the website has access to a database that recognises it as such.

I know from our website that geolocation via IP address can be really hit and miss.  The surest solution is if the website knows who you are (eg via a cookie) and which you country you live in if you have an account, but that doesn't help if you use a different device or the cookie expires (or is blocked) etc.

It is annoying for both the user and shop owner!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on June 02, 2017, 01:18:01 pm
I also found MSL search utterly useless!

Having found the loco I also get €133, and when I go to my shopping basket it says:

Quote
ATTENTION!
The prices indicated here do not include VAT.

I agree with Mike it's annoying, but they're trying to be too clever, most (larger) webshops have a simple "where are you" flag which will define if VAT is included or not.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 02:30:23 pm
I guess reading the small print is just as important as it always was, but I agree they could make it simpler. After all, their main buyers will not be 'trade', as at places like Screwfix where it is commonplace to see ex-VAT prices, but as Mike points out, knowing where your prospective buyer resides is not straightforward or even possible unless you log in to an account or otherwise reveal your location. They should at least make the price indication more obvious - incl VAT or export price. At the moment it's, well, small print! :D

When logged in or not MSL obviously recognise my location accurately, so at least for me the prices are inclusive of VAT and I don't get any unwanted surprises.

Of course now I'm sulking cos I would have loved to buy a Ge 4/4 for only €133.00 inclusive of VAT.  :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on June 02, 2017, 03:03:19 pm
It's not small print to be fair, but it's only there when you get to the shopping basket, when it's in big bold lettering at the top. As some see the with VAT price then the bigger issue I think is that they're trying to infer people's location from the IP address, which demonstrably doesn't work!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 02, 2017, 03:50:48 pm
It's small-ish print on the item page, right at the bottom of each price panel: either says "Net export price plus packing and shipping"  or "Incl. VAT, excl. packing and shipping". Easily overlooked.

Nice to know you get the big warning before you hit the pay button though.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on June 03, 2017, 12:34:08 pm
Reply from MSL this morning:


"If you incorrectly display US Dollar Net Travel, it may be because your browser is sending an incorrect language or country
name ("en-US").

You can resolve this issue by invoking the following URL:

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/home/setdefaultprice.asp (http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/home/setdefaultprice.asp)

This page uses a cookie which overrides the change of prices.

Best Regards

Thomas Schmitz"

__________________________________________

So that's that clarified. ;)



Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ntpntpntp on June 03, 2017, 01:37:28 pm
At home, trying the link with different browsers on the same (UK based and UK configured) Win10 PC:

Internet Explorer results in 159 Euros
Edge results in 159 Euros
Chrome results in 133 Euros

Interesting, maybe Chrome isn't sending quite the same browser agent info?   I use IE by default at home, but I use Chrome at work (where it also showed 133 euros)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on June 05, 2017, 12:47:14 am
It's not bizarre, it's that you're displaying an ex-VAT price, as discussed. Clicking your link I see €159. Whether you see €133 or €159 you will pay €159 once you get to the checkout, so it's a moot point.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on July 04, 2017, 05:12:42 pm
Picking up the earlier post by metroman64, here's my take on the same shapeways ABE 4/4 III (A/K models):


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-040717170328.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53130)

plus the Ge 4/4 II from A/K models:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-040717170449.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53131)

and a fleischmann industrial in mock RhB-ish mode: (with working head/tail lights at both ends)
 
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-040717170853.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53132)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-040717171007.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53133)

Now have another ABe 4/4 in the pipeline (they seem to come in pairs?), plus a Ge 4/4 I and Gem 4/4 from TT Trams on shapeways.

(PS my first post on this forum)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: RailGooner on July 04, 2017, 05:25:48 pm
Welcome aboard @fitzgreyve (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6197) . :wave: Very nice work on the 3D print. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on July 04, 2017, 07:21:08 pm
Watch this space, I have a Gem 4/4 in my workshop. This is a 3D bodyshell from Shapeways. Just waiting for the chassis so I can start. Decals have been specially printed by AB Modell for me.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on July 18, 2017, 12:29:01 pm
Watch this space, I have a Gem 4/4 in my workshop. This is a 3D bodyshell from Shapeways. Just waiting for the chassis so I can start. Decals have been specially printed by AB Modell for me.

I've just received mine ("TT Trams" on Shapeways), plus a Ge 4/4 I from the same. Just got to make my mind up on whether to use the Tomytec ED01 or TM03 chassis for the latter.

I'm just measuring up the GEm for a chassis  - any thoughts ? Also, I was wondering about how best to model the visible mid-chassis detail on this one, it's a bit complex for a first go at a  3D print.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on July 18, 2017, 09:41:36 pm
For the TT Trams Gem 4/4 chassis, I have used a Tomytec TM-21. Although it fits, the wheelbase is too long. The ploughs should be set back under the cab doors almost, but with this chassis, they are level with the cab front which affects the appearance. I am going to try a Tomytec TM-03 which has a slightly shorter wheelbase but only drives on one bogie. Again, it will be converted to Nm. I did convert the TM-21 to Nm, but it runs like a pig for some reason, the Tomytec chassis for my ABe 4/4 railcar runs like a dream! As for the space between the bogies, I have used plasticard and brass wire to simulate what is there, it is not 100% accurate but does the job in my opinion. Front end pipes are Dapol from an Ndetail1 set - N gauge diesel details.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on July 20, 2017, 01:34:08 pm
THanks Metroman - just to check we are on the same page, I got my (TT Trams) bodies printed at 1:150, but I'm sticking with  9mm track.

I have a spare TM-03 and while it fits the Ge 4/4 I body almost perfectly, the bogie centre dimension  seems too short for the Gem  - its 40mm, and by my calculation for the Gem it should be around 53mm in 1:150  (about 7.9 m in reality?). I was about to invest in a TM21, the bogie centre  >is< too long on that one at 56 mm.

interesting point on the snow plough position, I hadn't got that far. What ploughs are you using, I was about to invest in a pack of Kato ABe spares ?

I've printed my own transfers (on the above pics) using colour lazer printer (transfer stock from crafty computer paper)- the photos really exaggerate the outline of the transfer, which in reality is not that noticeable.

I also just picked up two red Kato GE 4/4/ III bodies (no windows) very cheap on Ebay.

 - Also noticed that TT trams on Shapeways has bodies for Tmf 2/2, Gmf 4/4 II, and Ge 6/6/ II - that last one will be very interesting to find a chassis for !
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on July 28, 2017, 08:17:38 pm
Hi fitzgreyve. I had mine printed in 1:150 scale as this matches the Kato stock. I tried a TM-03 under the Gem 4/4 but was too short. It is listed as a 12m chassis whilst the TM-21 is listed as a 14m chassis. No-one appears to do a 13m equivalent chassis. Therefore I will stick with the TM-21 until I can find a suitable chassis for it which can be converted to Nm. Ploughs are the spare Allegra ones available on eBay, just cut off the rear part and with mods I managed to fit it to the bogie using the Tomix sideframes with the extensions as these give somewhere to attach the ploughs to. Remember on the prototype, they are fixed to the bogies. I have ordered the Tmf 2/2 body and will try to mate it to a Kato 11-103 chassis. I have also received a TT Trams Gmf 4/4 II which I am looking for a chassis. Funnily enough, the GE 4/4 III chassis seems a close match! Anyway, my Gem 4/4 is currently in the paint shop so in the next couple of week hopefully it will be photographed and uploaded.
THanks Metroman - just to check we are on the same page, I got my (TT Trams) bodies printed at 1:150, but I'm sticking with  9mm track.

I have a spare TM-03 and while it fits the Ge 4/4 I body almost perfectly, the bogie centre dimension  seems too short for the Gem  - its 40mm, and by my calculation for the Gem it should be around 53mm in 1:150  (about 7.9 m in reality?). I was about to invest in a TM21, the bogie centre  >is< too long on that one at 56 mm.

interesting point on the snow plough position, I hadn't got that far. What ploughs are you using, I was about to invest in a pack of Kato ABe spares ?

I've printed my own transfers (on the above pics) using colour lazer printer (transfer stock from crafty computer paper)- the photos really exaggerate the outline of the transfer, which in reality is not that noticeable.

I also just picked up two red Kato GE 4/4/ III bodies (no windows) very cheap on Ebay.

 - Also noticed that TT trams on Shapeways has bodies for Tmf 2/2, Gmf 4/4 II, and Ge 6/6/ II - that last one will be very interesting to find a chassis for !
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on July 30, 2017, 05:00:24 pm
Thanks Metroman!

My latest Kato GE4/4 III just out of the paint shop (or more accurately "transfer shop"):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-300717165842.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53860)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on July 30, 2017, 09:19:09 pm
Nice decals fitzgreyve. Here are all nine of my Kato GE 4/4 IIIs (the first time they have all been together). The plain red ones are 644 (stock Kato), 645, 646 & 652 (all renumbered with AB Modell decals). The other five are standard Kato. All detailed with AB Modell handrails and regauged to Nm (6.5mm). Micro trains Z scale couplers fitted to all. Other two photos show some catenary I have assembled. Again from AB Modell, masts are Somerfeldt N, detail parts are N-Track.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/5966-300717205505.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53888)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/5966-300717205605.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53889)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/5966-300717205706.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53890)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/5966-300717205802.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53891)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 03, 2017, 01:42:05 am

Whoever invented 3D printing!

I have now effectively wasted many man hours starting to create things to go with the Kato (I'm still working with 9mm for simplicity BTW).

Here is just some of what I have wasted the hours on - the half converted / scratched efforts that can now go in the bin!

[li] carved up Glacier Express coach kitbash into NEVA driving trailer (although it looks as good as the 3D version
[/li][/list]


I have the Tmf on order
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 03, 2017, 01:55:11 am
Some of the new 3D stuff:


BDt NEVA
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817014410.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53970)

BDt 1721 series
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817014936.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53971)

Ge6/6II

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817015337.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53972)

Hopper
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817015451.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53973)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 03, 2017, 01:56:50 am
With the forthcoming Kato EWI, I've turned some of my Shapeways EWI into MGB


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817015646.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53974)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/704-030817015747.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53975)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on August 03, 2017, 11:50:36 am
Hi,
for you Rhb fans there is one person (Massimo Icardi) in the ASN italian association AmiciScalaN that makes a little production about Rhb called IchModels..Nm gauge.
Association website is www.amiciscalan.it (http://www.amiciscalan.it)

Cheers

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 07, 2017, 09:14:33 pm
Heres my model of the RhB Gem 4/4 #801. TT Trams body via Shapeways, Tomix chassis TM-21 re-gauged to Nm with Kato wheelsets. Ploughs are kato Allegra spares. Underframe equipment is a mix of plasticard bits and brass wire. Micro Trains Z scale couplings. Front pipes are a mix of Dapol N gauge spares and Kato. Pantographs are Kato Allegra spares. The bogie centres on the chassis are too far apart,  the ploughs should be set further back by about 4mm either end, but no-one does a 13m chassis. The TM-21 is a 14m one and the TM-03 is a 12m one but nothing in between! Decals are a custom order for me by Michael at AB Modell.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/5966-070817211359.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54117)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 22, 2017, 11:16:22 pm
Heres my model of the RhB Gem 4/4 #801


Very well done, looking good.

I'm new to Kato RhB. Just bought my first Allegra (plazajapan) plus some ABB decals from Germany.  Desperately looking for a GOT 651 shell or loco at the moment. I hope Kato will do a re-run, they are not easy to find. I know the starter packs are still available but to just get the GOT Ge4/4III 651, the shipping costs for the starter pack kills every deal out there.

Some interesting models on shapeways. What paint are you guys using for the RhB red ? Would SP Scarlet Red do the job ?

While they were still available I bought two spare Ge4/4III shells from Hobbysearch. One will become the green #647 A&M'AG one, working on the decals atm. (got the size, now I need to find the right fonts or I have to draw them)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-230817021613.jpeg)

As an old IceHockey fan back in Switzerland, "hating" the rivals HC Davos with a passion, #652 would be another 'nice to have'  ;)

cheers,
steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 22, 2017, 11:22:40 pm
My latest Kato GE4/4 III just out of the paint shop (or more accurately "transfer shop"):

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6197-300717165842.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53860[/url])


Well, well, well, how cool is that ? Very nice job.

I hope you don't mind me asking, decals ? Who designed them ? Is that your own work ? Looking very good. Do you have plans to make them available for others ? I am very interested to buy a set if you do. Wow, great job !

cheers,
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 23, 2017, 07:37:16 am
Hi retica. I use Santa Fe red, partly because I had some left over from my US modelling days. I am nearing completion of the TT Trams (Shapeways) Gfm 4/4 using a Tomix TM-10R chassis re-gauged as usual to Nm using Kato wheelsets. Decals are again a special order from AB Modell in Germany. If you need any decals for the RhB, try them, Michael will produce them if you ask him nicely, he as done them for my Gem 4/4 & BDt 4 as well. The yellow for my Gfm 4/4 is Accuflex Wisconsin Cream - the bottle is nearly 20 years old but still as good as the day I got it. Pictures for the Gfm 4/4 will follow in the next couple of weeks. With reference to the GOT 4/4 III, keep an eye on ebay, sometimes they get split from sets and appear. I got mine in a set, but I wanted the UNESCO one without the set. Plazajapan put a bodyshell on eBay a while back as a Kato spare and as I already has a spare pair of bogies, I purchased the chassis as a Kato spare and found a set of pantographs (they do not come with the bodyshells) and for about £70, I got a complete loco. I recommend fitting a set of AB Modell handrails as they vastly improve the appearance (make sure you get the hole drilling jig) and also replace the Kato couplers - I use Micro Trains Z scale knuckle couplers - they work a lot better.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 08:45:53 am
Hi retica. I use Santa Fe red

Good idea, didn't think of that one, or Amtrak red, comes close as well.

Yes, I know Michael, I bought a 125 Jahre ABB decal set from him for the Allegra. Decals are on the way, so is the Allegra from Japan, soon I will have lots of fun with huge decals.

I have my eyes on a GOT shell, bit pricey but better than a whole starter set.

Kato coupler ? Are you talking about the Rapido ones or the Kato short coupling ones ? I like the look of the Kato short coupler but will probably end up with the Micro Trains ones as well.

No decision made so far if I go N or Nm.

The handrails I will replace but I will use phosphor bronce wire and bend my own  ;)

cheers,
steve

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on August 23, 2017, 09:17:14 am

I hope you don't mind me asking, decals ? Who designed them ? Is that your own work ? Looking very good. Do you have plans to make them available for others ? I am very interested to buy a set if you do. Wow, great job !


Thanks for asking  - These are colour laser printed onto white waterslide paper from craftycomputerpaper.co.uk

I designed them myself, the side transfer is actually in two sections - the blue background plus everything except for the ibex head, and the ibex head on a separate overlay. The head is from a photo of the real loco, whereas the rest is created from scratch in Microsoft Visio (no preference, it's just what I have). The smaller text is pushing the limit of what is legible on the printer, even at (an alleged) 4800 dpi.

The whole body was first airbrushed blue, the sides are fully covered, but you need to match the ends up.

I found that cutting the transfer out, even with a brand new scalpel blade,  tends to "rag" the colour at the edges of the transfer- scissors worked far better.

The hardest part was  cutting out the windows - the transfers do stretch slightly on application and it's would be almost impossible to fully align them at this scale, so I didn't try and left the windows to be cut out once it had fully dried (using a scalpel, despite what I said above, you can see some white around the windows even after I've touched it up with paint after varnishing with humbrol matt cote.). Micro-set and micro-sol also used copiously!

The problem with DIY transfer printing is that there 'ain't no white ink, so you I  you have to start with a white transfer base and match the background colour. For the crest and numbers on the ends I printed out several versions with differing blue backgrounds - the blue paint I used was a mix of humbrol French blue (a bit too light) and midnight blue (definitely too dark) - if anything I got it a bit too dark.

The white carrier is thicker than the clear variant, but in reality not as visible as some of my pictures in this thread seem to show.

So, all in all, it's possible to do this with care, but somewhat fiddly. I've used this paper many times  before for full wagon sides (in OO gauge). A "huge" decal to me is one for a 4"x8" modular music synthesiser panel!

I'd be happy to do a set for anyone who wanted them at a nominal cost to cover materials and postage etc.  I'd probably provide two sets, as the risk of going wrong is quite high.

PS For my red RhB stock, I'm just using humbrol #19 -  but not too far off the RhB shade.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 10:15:43 am
I purchased the chassis as a Kato spare and found a set of pantographs (they do not come with the bodyshells) and for about £70, I got a complete loco.

Forgot to mention, I found 4 shells today on ebay, all red 644, no widows, no roof, just the bare shell, good for some more paint jobs and then buy the whole model and just exchange the shells. A bargain, £6 each including shipping. Let the fun begin.

cheers,
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 10:22:19 am
I designed them myself, the side transfer is actually in two sections - the blue background plus everything except for the ibex head, and the ibex head on a separate overlay.

I'd be happy to do a set for anyone who wanted them at a nominal cost to cover materials and postage etc.  I'd probably provide two sets, as the risk of going wrong is quite high.

Thanks for your answer. Two sections, very good, so I could print the light blue lines myself, plus all the lettering and put your Ibex head decal on top. Interesting.

I am very interested, if you could calculate how much including shipping to the other side of the world and I can pay with paypal, please send me a private message with the details. Thanks.

cheers,
steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 11:35:28 am
Just playing around with some other ideas at the moment and testing the possibilities if I actually can print them. I don't have all the spot colors left. Printing these colors would be definitely easier with a laser printer.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-230817112950.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-230817124409.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-230817124210.jpeg)


cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ntpntpntp on August 23, 2017, 03:06:14 pm
The problem with DIY transfer printing is that there 'ain't no white ink


It is a shame, it used to be possible (and affordable) - maybe still can if you can find one of the old Alps Microdry technology printers, though these are no longer in production and supplies of the ink cartridges are approaching the rarity of hen's teeth these days!

All the white lettering and phone graphics on this re-liveried Arnold unit were home-made waterslide decals on very thin clear carrier film. I made this back in 2005:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/5885-230817145759.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54430)

I suppose these days, one could consider something like an OKI colour laster printer for proofing etc. which support white toner, but they're around £2k, not the £70 I paid for my Microdry printer
http://www.oki.com/uk/printing/products/colour/graphic-arts/white-toner-series/pro7411wt/index.html (http://www.oki.com/uk/printing/products/colour/graphic-arts/white-toner-series/pro7411wt/index.html)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 08:32:00 pm
I suppose these days, one could consider something like an OKI colour laster printer for proofing etc. which support white toner, but they're around £2k, not the £70 I paid for my Microdry printer

Nice job on the decals.

The question with this OKI laser, does it support overlay printing. That is the good thing with the Alps (or OKI, Roland) Microdry printers, not only can you print white, silver and gold but you can print white first and then any other color on top without the paper leaving the printer so a red decal stays red even when applied on a dark blue shell. If it does support overlay that could be a good alternative (if I win lotto that is  ;) )

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ntpntpntp on August 23, 2017, 09:20:49 pm
The question with this OKI laser, does it support overlay printing. That is the good thing with the Alps (or OKI, Roland) Microdry printers

Good question. Mine's actually an old Citizen Printiva that was sold off on ebay by a hospital years ago. Doesn't natively support white but relabelling a white cartridge works fine. Always amazes me how accurate the registration is when it pulls the paper back in for the next pass.  I keep an old PC running on Windows ME as that has the best driver with the most overlay and spot colour options.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 23, 2017, 10:04:02 pm
I keep an old PC running on Windows ME as that has the best driver with the most overlay and spot colour options.

Lucky find, a Microdry printer for £70  :thumbsup: nowadays if you're lucky to find a refurbished Alps MD 5000/5500, they go for up to US $1000 !

Edit: Just checked ebay, make that US $2000 for a new MD-5000i (?) or MD-5500  :laugh3:

 ;) Same here, an old Compaq laptop with a LPT1 port and windows XP installed as a print server. I've had Spot red, blue and green labelled #16 and changed the cartridge during a print job but that does not work anymore. The registration is slightly off after a new cartridge identification run. Solution was to label them cyan, magenta and yellow instead and use them this way, all good again. Now, where do I get a new orange cartridge from ? Would be handy for the riri scheme shown above.

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 24, 2017, 01:11:58 pm
I call this one PITA, that was a challenge to get that paint off (worst Kato shell ever so far).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-240817130909.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 25, 2017, 08:33:21 pm
The Gfm 4/4 is finally finished. Yellow is Accuflex Wisconsin Central cream!, Roof and grills are Accuflex Erie Lackawanna Grey, they look grey in photos, so opted for this colour even though I believe it should be silver. Underframe parts are fixed to the chassis - if they were fixed to the body, they would prevent the chassis from being removed. Chassis is usual Tomix TM-10R re-gauged to Nm using Kato wheelsets. Micro Trains Z scale knuckle couplers. Decals specially produced by AB Modell.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/5966-250817203151.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54514)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/5966-250817203313.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54515)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 25, 2017, 09:47:45 pm
The Gfm 4/4 is finally finished.

Looking good  8)

You mentioned Dapol parts you use to detail your models, what part numbers ?

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 25, 2017, 10:00:54 pm
You mentioned Dapol parts you use to detail your models, what part numbers ?

cheers
steve

The Dapol part number is NDETAIL1. The only place that has them at the moment is 2ktechnologies. They have their own website but also sell on ebay. They charge £8.99 for a set on eBay. I originally got them from Hattons who only charged £4.50 a set but they have been out of stock for a while. NDETAIL1 includes a total of 8 pipes, 2 snowploughs and two screw couplings. I only use the pipes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 25, 2017, 10:15:29 pm
They charge £8.99 for a set on eBay.

Yeah, not gonna happen, they also charge £16.99 for shipping !!   :laugh3:  I will have to use good old wire instead then.

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 26, 2017, 04:35:15 am
Working on the decals. Not 100% happy with the G, looks a bit fatter than the other letters. Found the right fonts, or very close, online for the other lettering, Pill Gothic 300mg.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-260817042954.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 28, 2017, 02:42:14 am
RhB Ge 4/4 I, the last four survivor. Anyone modeled one in 1:150 yet ?

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628315/ (http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628315/)

cheers,
steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 28, 2017, 12:20:58 pm
Not happy with the number font. I'm using Futura XBlk BT, need to find a narrower version of the same font.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-280817121731.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 29, 2017, 12:07:53 am
Yeah, excitement, I got my first Allegra this morning from Plaza Japan ! What a great looking little model. Unfortunately the excitement got immediately muddied down when I did a test run - how bloody noise are these models, especially at very low speed ? They must have a little bistro in it and constantly grind some fresh coffee !   :doh:
They seem all that loud (at least that is the impression I get from reading comments online), don't know why, Kato normally produces very smooth and silently running gear. Weird.
What are your experiences with Kato's Allegra ? 

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on August 29, 2017, 07:19:25 am
Yeah, excitement, I got my first Allegra this morning from Plaza Japan ! What a great looking little model. Unfortunately the excitement got immediately muddied down when I did a test run - how bloody noise are these models, especially at very low speed ? They must have a little bistro in it and constantly grind some fresh coffee !   :doh:
They seem all that loud (at least that is the impression I get from reading comments online), don't know why, Kato normally produces very smooth and silently running gear. Weird.
What are your experiences with Kato's Allegra ? 

cheers
steve

I've had the same problem, they are a bit noisy. AB Modell do a replacement motor kit using a Maxon motor which is ultra smooth. When time a nd funds permit, I will upgrade both of my Allegras
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on August 29, 2017, 02:18:32 pm
RhB Ge 4/4 I, the last four survivor. Anyone modeled one in 1:150 yet ?

[url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628315/[/url] ([url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628315/[/url])

cheers,
steve

Got one just waiting final paint cleanup  and then decals.  The TTtrams body on shapeways is somewhat lacking on roof detail, but I can always add that later.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:34:25 am
Regarding decals, do be aware that technically one requires permission from RhB
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:37:21 am

Good idea, didn't think of that one, or Amtrak red, comes close as well.


For the red I use Humbrol spray bright red or plastikote red from Wilkos!

The huge advantage of RhB stock being so clean and shiny is that one can use gloss paints with impunity.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:39:58 am


Forgot to mention, I found 4 shells today on ebay, all red 644, no widows, no roof, just the bare shell, good for some more paint jobs and then buy the whole model and just exchange the shells. A bargain, £6 each including shipping. Let the fun begin.

cheers,
steve

Ge4/4 III shells are also available in Shapeways

I was thinking of doing the A&M AG but it has proved short lived so I have abandoned the idea.


.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 30, 2017, 12:43:20 am
Regarding decals, do be aware that technically one requires permission from RhB

Yup, I've asked for permission, got a contract in pdf form, signed it and sent it back to the RhB.
No worries  ;)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:46:40 am
I was in RhB land all last week.

Three Ge4/4I doing stalwart work on the new Albula tunnel.

Sadly with only three loco diagrams on the Albula, RhB's policy of keeping loks on the same turns for long periods meant that from our holiday let (at Berguen) , we only saw Glacier on Tour, Unesco and RhB Team.



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 30, 2017, 12:52:00 am
Ge4/4 III shells are also available in Shapeways

I was thinking of doing the A&M AG but it has proved short lived so I have abandoned the idea.

Not convinced yet about using shapeways shells to build locomotive models. Freight cars are ok. I do not like the balsa wood like surface of the prints. The black high res acrylic stuff is more to my like, not many model RR designers are offering their products in that medium yet.

I just like the simplicity of the design and the green stands nicely out amongst the red ones   ;)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2017, 12:53:30 am
Ge4/4 III shells are also available in Shapeways

I was thinking of doing the A&M AG but it has proved short lived so I have abandoned the idea.

I saw the loco in its new blue and white livery but only from a distance whilst hiking Filisur - Wiesen.

.

Not convinced yet about using shapeways shells to build locomotive models. Freight cars are ok. I do not like the balsa wood like surface of the prints. The black high res acrylic stuff is more to my like, not many model RR designers are offering their products in that medium yet.

I just like the simplicity of the design and the green stands nicely out amongst the red ones   ;)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ohlavache on August 30, 2017, 07:55:20 pm
For information, RhB EW I coaches from Kato (in 1:150 over 9mm gauge tracks) are now available !
I've ordered mine from Hobby Search (1999.co.jp).
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on August 31, 2017, 12:55:10 am
My preordered Hobby Search EWIs have been shipped


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 31, 2017, 01:25:59 pm
Bent some .008 phosphor bronze wire. Not sure yet if I do the side ones as well.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-310817132023.jpeg)

If you want to bend your own, use this template. It will fit if you drill the two holes right at the end of the molded on handrail.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-310817133118.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on August 31, 2017, 03:21:11 pm
For information, RhB EW I coaches from Kato (in 1:150 over 9mm gauge tracks) are now available !
I've ordered mine from Hobby Search (1999.co.jp).
Mine have just been shipped from hobbysearch as well, together with  "albula 100th" GE 4/4 III.   :thumbsup:
Date for spare pantographs has gone from "August" to "after September"  :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on September 04, 2017, 02:06:12 am
Spring is here and I am getting more and more items to tinker with.

Four more RhB Ge4/4III shells.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-040917015951.jpeg)

And Allegra decals, ahyeah !

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6270-040917020147.jpeg)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on September 15, 2017, 11:41:57 pm
My preordered Hobby Search EWIs have been shipped

Now arrived.

The shape and general allure of the coaches is superb, however:

1) there is a huge hole in the lower part of each end of each coach to cater for the couplings
2) the Rhätische Bahn lettering is not 100% perfect

As regards the 'coupling hole', there is a narrow slot that looks as if it was engineered for a slide in cover piece to be inserted instead of the coupling, but no such accessory is included.

At my club on Wednesday I was able to replicate in model form  the current standard Albula set of Ge4/4III,1st, 1st, DS van, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd - albeit that there are EWII in some rakes.

My Shapeways vehicles will have to be modified chassis-wise to fit in with the Kato coaches.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on September 23, 2017, 01:52:05 pm
Not wanting to steal Gordon's thunder, here some pics of the EWI's and the Albula 100th Ge4/4 III.

the ge 4/4 III, comes fitted with close couplers, arnold couplers provided.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134046.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56109)

EWI 1st Class:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134331.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56110)

and 2nd class:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134439.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56111)

the coupler pocket gap Gordon notes above:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134621.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56112)

The standard corridor connections are very short, here's the effect of adding a "long" connection removed from the glacier express.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134814.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56113)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134909.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56114)

Not clear what radius rhis will cope with though!
 
The EWI set comes with short couplers to convert a loco, but no explicit mention of putting arnold couplers on the coaches themselves, but I can't see that this would be an issue if needed
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on September 27, 2017, 01:19:48 am
the coupler pocket gap Gordon notes above:

The standard corridor connections are very short, here's the effect of adding a "long" connection removed from the glacier express.

Not clear what radius this will cope with though!

It's amusing that when the concept first started, it was Arnold couplers being exchanged for close couplers as an 'option'. Now the EWI pack comes with instructions to do the opposite in order to connect the EWIs with previous Kato vehicles with Arnold couplers!

It is not an issue for me because as I have been collecting from the very start, I now have a spares box full of Glacier Express coach bodies (Chassis used for the non GEX coach conversions and 3D), long corridor connections  (taken off the aforementioned GEX carcasses) short corridor connections and short couplers supplied in the original short coupling spares pack.

I have three GEX sets, one is fully close coupler fitted, one is fully Arnold coupler fitted, and the third is now incomplete as per above). Of my six Ge4/4III, most now have Arnold one end and close coupler the other. I retain Arnold couplers for connecting to my various wagon kitbashes.

BTW I intend to try sliding a piece of thin red plastic or card into the slot so that an EWI at the tail end of a train doesn't show the unsightly coupler
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on September 27, 2017, 01:34:00 am
Not wanting to steal Gordon's thunder, here some pics of the EWI's and the Albula 100th Ge4/4 III.


EWI 1st Class:

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134331.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56110[/url])

and 2nd class:

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/6197-230917134439.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56111[/url])



Note that these pictures only depict the latest livery versions.

Of the eight models issued, three (two 2nd and one 1st) are in the older livery with the thin silver stripe.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: 303 on September 28, 2017, 07:36:58 am
Wow, didn't noticed that. Nice one  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 03, 2017, 11:49:31 pm
here we are on my layout (which will be going to Boulogne sur Mer show  on November 4/5)



(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/704-031017234842.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on October 06, 2017, 08:35:35 pm
The reservation is now open for the Kato Ge4/4II locomotive on the Hobbysearch website.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495218 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495218)

cheers
steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 06, 2017, 09:19:21 pm
Thanks for the link Steve. :thumbsup:

The website has a wonderful translation of the details. :confused1: Auto translate systems always raise a smile. :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on October 07, 2017, 12:25:42 am
The reservation is now open for the Kato Ge4/4II locomotive on the Hobbysearch website.

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495218[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495218[/url])

cheers
steve



Reserved!

I just saw it on my Hobby Search newsletter before reading this.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on October 07, 2017, 12:34:47 pm
Hobbysearch give release date only as February, though chiayu.biz website seems to give it as "28 February 2018 Wednesday". How accurate this is remains to be seen. Site also gives this larger pic of the prototype:

http://chiayu.biz/catalog/images/3102.jpg (http://chiayu.biz/catalog/images/3102.jpg)

(http://chiayu.biz/catalog/images/3102.jpg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 08, 2017, 10:10:35 am
The latest Kato flyer is out, no RhB Postwagen and no RhB Gueterwagen so far :worried:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: ohlavache on December 08, 2017, 01:13:50 pm
The latest Kato flyer is out, no RhB Postwagen and no RhB Gueterwagen so far :worried:

steve

My understanding is that it's too early.
Rumors I read seem to say that it should be for end 2018. With a Ge 6/6 I.
Let's cross fingers and toes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 12, 2017, 12:16:11 pm
My understanding is that it's too early.
Rumors I read seem to say that it should be for end 2018. With a Ge 6/6 I.
Let's cross fingers and toes.


Never too early for one of these

http://www.bahnbilder.de/1200/rhb-gepaeckwagen-d-4214-rhb-depot-725363.jpg (http://www.bahnbilder.de/1200/rhb-gepaeckwagen-d-4214-rhb-depot-725363.jpg)

or these

http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/rhb-gepaeckwagen-ds-4220-455781.jpg (http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/rhb-gepaeckwagen-ds-4220-455781.jpg)

to go together with the EW Is.

Or a nice Steuerwagen / control car.

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/rhb-bdt-1721-am-110508.jpg (http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/rhb-bdt-1721-am-110508.jpg)

Well, a Ge 6/6 I would be nice, but together with the Salon Wagen. And a Ge 6/6 II for the freight cars.   

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 14, 2017, 03:17:44 am

Never too early for one of these
[url]http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/rhb-gepaeckwagen-ds-4220-455781.jpg[/url] ([url]http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/rhb-gepaeckwagen-ds-4220-455781.jpg[/url])


Available from Shapeways. Mine has already run a full 2 day show in France as part of a Kato EWI consist

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-141217031911.jpeg)
Or a nice Steuerwagen / control car.


Two versions available from Shapeways


And a Ge 6/6 II for the freight cars.   


Available from Shapeways...



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 14, 2017, 03:32:07 am
Available from Shapeways...

I know but I don't like the shapeways quality, not even FUX. I rather wait for proper injection molded models.

Your DS looks good  :thumbsup:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 05:05:20 pm
These are new to me:

Advertised as complimentary to the Kato range, models from MDS Modell of no less than FIVE different models of the RhB Ge 4/4 II, and each in either DC, DCC, or DCC with sound.

Also two different sliding wall wagons in sets of two, and three different Schiebewandwagen, all with advertising liveries.

Prices seem in line with most main European manufacturers and Kato.

Details sent via email to me from Menzels Lokshuppen.de. Here's a link to their pre-order page.

https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Nach-Hersteller/MDS-Modell/ (https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Nach-Hersteller/MDS-Modell/)

Still trying to find fuller details of the manufacturer and anticipated issue dates, but have household things to do right now. :(


Anybody have any personal knowledge of the brand - MDS Modell?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 05:12:05 pm
Here's a translation copy of the email blurb about these from Menzels (edited):


This week we can present you ......... new in our range - railway models of MDS model for the N gauge. MDS model specializes in vehicles of the Rhaetian Railway in N gauge and as a range extension to the Swiss models of Kato delivers the electric locomotive Ge 4/4 II and a four-axle sliding wall wagon in attractive livery variants.

And also a translation of the manufacturers 'about us' page:

Quote
about us

MDS model and its products


The enterprise

MDS model was founded in 2010 by Gunnar Müller in Auenwald, Baden-Württemberg.

The company name was initially MDS-Müller and stood for model service service.

Müller built for friends and acquaintances digital decoder, speakers and steam generators in locomotives of all sizes. The quality of this work quickly spread. Because of the growing demand, a trade was registered under the name MDS-Müller. As an accessory for garden railways small series kits around the topic Rhaetian Railway were developed and produced. In collaboration with Peter Langula, the ingenious S-KuPLix short coupling for LGB models was created.

With the goal of developing their own railway models and working with a partner, the one-man company was renamed the MDS model in 2017. In the spring of 2018, a designer will be added who, like Gunnar Müller, has been working in the model railway industry for some 20 years. Both have developed models for IIm, 0, H0, TT and N for various model railway manufacturers in senior positions.

MDS model will start at the end of 2017 with the first own models for the N gauge (Japanese scale 1: 150). The Rhaetian Railway (RhB) offers a broad field of activity here.

The models of MDS model are highly detailed, timely designed and technically fine, but do not shy from the daily operation on the system. With this claim originated as the first models the Ge 4/4 II and the sliding wallcar Haik-v of the Rhaetian Railway.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 05:17:13 pm
Sorry, forgot to post the link to the manufacturers website:

https://mds-modell.eu/
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 05:23:36 pm
Just looked at individual items on the MDS Modell site and each has the words
"Lieferzeit ca. 30 Tage", that is, delivery in about 30 days.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 16, 2017, 07:08:43 pm
Just looked at individual items on the MDS Modell site and each has the words
"Lieferzeit ca. 30 Tage", that is, delivery in about 30 days.

Seems to be built to order.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 16, 2017, 07:50:24 pm
Thanks Steve, that's the impression I was getting.
 :beers:

I notice RMWeb has a thread on these with comment that the models are 'superb'., though the locos high priced to Kato if latter bought direct from Japan.

I shall email the company re delivery/availability outside Germany

N.B. The email address quoted on RMWeb for MDS is not valid. mDS website has a contact form, which is what I have used.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 21, 2017, 01:06:17 am

Seems to be built to order.


No I got the feeling it was just that they have only just been launched. The firm previously did large scale RhB but have presumably noticed the healthy interest in Swiss N 1:150 and have decided to jump on...


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 21, 2017, 01:07:56 am
I know but I don't like the shapeways quality,

Your DS looks good  :thumbsup:

I've not had too many issues with the quality on the 1:150 Shapeways stuff

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on December 21, 2017, 09:37:08 am
Depends on so many factors, most notably the material. FUD/FXD are pretty good IMO. WSF isn’t good for n gauge.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on December 21, 2017, 10:01:29 am
Depends on so many factors, most notably the material. FUD/FXD are pretty good IMO. WSF isn’t good for n gauge.

Nah, I'm probably too picky but FUD and FXD doesn't do it for me. Good for detail parts and parts that need to look like concrete but not for models. The new stuff, the High Definition Acrylate is not bad an on the right way, just the resolution needs to be a bit higher to reduce the "moire". And the designer actually need to offer their models in this product.

steve   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on December 21, 2017, 10:24:39 am
Fair enough, I didn’t think HDA looked that good from what I’ve seen. You certainly need to take your time preparing FUD for painting, and as always it depends on the skill of the person doing the finish. But we digress.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 22, 2017, 12:19:52 am
Recent pics:



longest freight so far mustered (and negotiated the layout without incident.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217003024-59591519.jpeg)

Formation
Ge6/6II (Shapeways)
tank wagon (conversion from standard N gauge 1:160 wagon)
container well wagon (Shapeways)
Valser van (Roco SBB Hbis conversion)
tank wagon (Roco 1:160 conversion)
bogie flat with pipes load (Fleischmann 1:160 conversion)
Co-op 4w van (kitbash)
bogie flat with logs load (Minitrix 1:160 conversion)




Ge6/6II

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217003029-59593289.jpeg)


station building end on. Since the layout's appearance in Continental Modeller, I have replaced the old 'St Niklaus' station building and Kestrel platforms with a Kato Filisur station and 'Glacier Express platform/LRT platform kits. I then re-roofed the Kato Filisur station to make it look more like the 'lowland' type (with less roof overhang as less snow expected). My layout is set in the Domleschg, so I take Rodels-Realta as a guide.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217002944-595901926.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217000920-595831065.jpeg)


Shapeways EWII with Kato EWI

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217002941-59588550.jpeg)



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on December 22, 2017, 07:52:13 am
Shouldn’t the roof on the Ge6/6 be silver?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on December 22, 2017, 10:32:00 am
Hi Folks,

I've had a very nasty experience buying from the "Japan Excite Store" via eBay worldwide. They advertised and I bought a RhB train. It consisted of 1 x Kato 3101, 1 x Kato 10-1413 and 1 x Kato 10-1414. What actually arrived was 1 x Kato 10-1413. They have not replied to any emails asking where the balance is. So if you'll take my advice you will treat this supplier with extreme caution. >:(

What I did get was lovely BTW. Happy Christmas, wish I was there in Switzerland not warm foggy England,

Mike Beard. :censored:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 22, 2017, 11:36:57 am
I really hope the rest turns up in a second shipment Mike to make your Christmas brighter.

I'll second your wish to be in Switzerland. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on December 22, 2017, 01:27:42 pm
I've had a chat with eBay and essentually we will lodge a complaint against the supplier in order to get our money back.

I'm just adding a warning message as these guys still have very tempting offers on eBay and I'd rather others did not learn the hard, and expensive, way. >:(

Happy Christmas :beers:

Mike Beard

I'll third that - a small hotel near Filisur Station does it for this guy.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on December 22, 2017, 04:58:36 pm
Thanks Steve, that's the impression I was getting.
 :beers:

I notice RMWeb has a thread on these with comment that the models are 'superb'., though the locos high priced to Kato if latter bought direct from Japan.

I shall email the company re delivery/availability outside Germany

N.B. The email address quoted on RMWeb for MDS is not valid. mDS website has a contact form, which is what I have used.


now stocked by MBK ( all pending!)

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E)

(follow News about N Scale)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 22, 2017, 05:19:19 pm
Thanks RG. :thumbsup: That makes two German retailers now listing them with Menzels Lokschuppen and MBK. The manufacturers themselves have not yet replied to my email enquiry to them about actual release times. :(
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on December 22, 2017, 08:22:08 pm
Thanks RG. :thumbsup: That makes two German retailers now listing them with Menzels Lokschuppen and MBK. The manufacturers themselves have not yet replied to my email enquiry to them about actual release times. :(


MBK are taking reservations ( no deposit needed)

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/E/komplett2.cfm?fid=560&wgid=140&hint=0 (http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/E/komplett2.cfm?fid=560&wgid=140&hint=0)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on December 22, 2017, 08:43:46 pm
Hi Folks,

The Kato locos look very neat but does anybody make replacement overhead collectors?

Cheers,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on December 22, 2017, 09:12:39 pm
If you mean the pantograph, then Kato themselves do some. The part numbers are in the early 400's, so for example, 11-405.  A google search will bring up various sellers, from Amazon to eBay etc.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 23, 2017, 01:12:29 am
Hi Folks,

I've had a very nasty experience buying from the "Japan Excite Store" via eBay worldwide. They advertised and I bought a RhB train. It consisted of 1 x Kato 3101, 1 x Kato 10-1413 and 1 x Kato 10-1414. What actually arrived was 1 x Kato 10-1413. They have not replied to any emails asking where the balance is. So if you'll take my advice you will treat this supplier with extreme caution. >:(

What I did get was lovely BTW. Happy Christmas, wish I was there in Switzerland not warm foggy England,

Mike Beard.

I notice they have a high proportion of negatives.

I recommend sticking to Plaza Japan, or even better stay outside of Ebay and shop direct with 1999.co.jp aka Hobby Search. Much more model orientated and never had any problems with them.


Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on December 23, 2017, 01:19:21 am
Shouldn’t the roof on the Ge6/6 be silver?

It was a rush job to get it ready for the Boulogne show. As you can probably tell, the roof is not complete. For the purposes of the show it was quickest to give it one quick red spray and stick two random pantographs on it.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on December 25, 2017, 08:27:19 pm
OK, it's Christmas Night and the BBC are broadcasting their worst.   Time to do some designing I think. There is no doubt that one way or another I'll have a Kato 3101 and both packs of EW1 coaches. Now the next question is "What to run them on?" So let us suppose a train consists of a nominal loco and 6 off EW1 coaches or their equivalent. I've noticed that Kato quote everything as being able to surmount a 5% grade. OK, joke over. What are the hauling charactoristics of these Kato locos on spirals? I assume they will easily haul a 6 to 8 coach train on the level but what radius spiral and what angle to be able to lift 6 coaches? Any info would be a start. In the end I can build an adjustable spiral but it would be nice to have some foreknowledge.

Happy New Year and Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 02, 2018, 02:18:49 am
OK, it's Christmas Night and the BBC are broadcasting their worst.   Time to do some designing I think. There is no doubt that one way or another I'll have a Kato 3101 and both packs of EW1 coaches. Now the next question is "What to run them on?" So let us suppose a train consists of a nominal loco and 6 off EW1 coaches or their equivalent. I've noticed that Kato quote everything as being able to surmount a 5% grade. OK, joke over. What are the hauling charactoristics of these Kato locos on spirals? I assume they will easily haul a 6 to 8 coach train on the level but what radius spiral and what angle to be able to lift 6 coaches? Any info would be a start. In the end I can build an adjustable spiral but it would be nice to have some foreknowledge.

Happy New Year and Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.

I tend not to have space for inclines so can't help much, but the Kato Ge4/4III are pretty darn powerful and will easily haul the 8 EWI coaches round a 183 radius curve, which I imagine causes similar drag to an incline.

It is worth noting that in the last few years the standard Albula set has been 6 EW plus a Ds van, so not too heavy a rake IMO (and hence my keenness to use a shapeways Ds van with my Kato EWI


Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 02, 2018, 08:22:59 am
Even the sharpest curve is no comparison to a gradient whatsoever. Most Kato locos have excellent haulage, so I’d guess the Ge4/4 will have no issues with 6-8 coaches on a 2, possibly even 3% gradient. Steeper tends to cause problems, but again you’d have to try it as it’ll depend on a number of factors.

Weight is the single biggest factor, if there’s extra room in the body you could add more.

Mock up a gradient with your stock and try it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 02, 2018, 12:26:46 pm
So, the Kato 10-1145 and the10-1414 arrived today from Train Trax.  :thankyousign: They look really good. Interestingly the 10-1414 box has push-outs in the foam to allow for the full eight coaches to be in one box. Good thinking. One thing I'll have to do is make up a sticker with the coach number on it and put it on the underneath of the coach so I know which is which. The loco has traction tyres. Has anybody bought any yet? I'm obviously going to change out the loco rapidos for the semi-permanent couplings and it seems that kits are available to shorten the gap between panoramics. Has anybody tried installing anything more discrete than the Rapido couplers that has an amount of automatic function?

Now I have a handfull of stock I can try out various grades on my 4 foot x 2 foot test track. That's always fun, like being a kid again seeing what angle the loco skids at!

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 03, 2018, 01:03:39 am
Interestingly the 10-1414 box has push-outs in the foam to allow for the full eight coaches to be in one box. Good thinking.

This is standard practice for Japanese model railway 'book' sets, and they did the same for the original Glacier Express coach issues.

And you will find also that they provide stickers for you to label the book pack.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 03, 2018, 11:27:40 am
Gordon said:-

And you will find also that they provide stickers for you to label the book pack.


Yes, I have. I've still got to identify every coach by a number and number its "bed space" though. I wish that all my problems were so simple!

I've heard/read whispers that the Ae8/12 railcar might leave something to be desired noise/running wise. Has anybody any experience of them?

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 03, 2018, 01:24:33 pm
I have two Allegra 3-car sets, one bought with a Starter Set, the other as 10-1318, the Bernina Express 5-car set. One of these I have fitted with Kato's carriage lighting.

They are noisier than say Kato's Ge 4/4 III locos, but nothing untoward as far as I'm concerned.  I have a Minitrix Re 460 that is louder, thanks to its metal gearing.

All in all, they are fine models and I would not be put off by the noise factor. But noise is a personal thing, so if you can, get a shop to test run one for you while you're in the shop so you can see what the Allegra is like.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 03, 2018, 05:50:47 pm
Now then,

I've run my Ge4/4 III on Coberg Yard and it handles the Atlas code 55 to NMRA standards just fine. The two Glacier Express coaches do too. The Rapidos look supremely ugly. Although I am fairy deaf I have sufficient hearing to know that it is silent. :claphappy:

What else can I say? Even the current Mrs Beard likes the train; a first in 47 years of married life! :laugh:

Now if Kato made the van and a railcar not to mention freight stock and Tillig made N Gauge track for a while my cup would run over. :)

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 04, 2018, 12:40:24 am

I've heard/read whispers that the Ae8/12 railcar might leave something to be desired noise/running wise. Has anybody any experience of them?

I have three Allegras and they are all perfectly fine. AFAIR the 'noise' thing was raised early in the existence of these models, and I recall disagreeing with the notion then, and still do.

They make a bit of a whining noise but as far as I am concerned that gives a brilliantly realistic electric train sound, without the hassle and expense of DCC!


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 09, 2018, 08:43:28 pm
I've been looking at current RhB trains at Filisur. It's good to see the 600 series of locos working the Glacier Express. An excuse to buy one as if it were needed. The other thing seems to be that the RhB seem to be replacing the EW1 coaches with new ones in 6 coach fixed sets built to the full loading gauge profile. Five of these coaches seem identical but the leading one seems to be equipped with a dedicated wheelchair area. Is that true? Has anybody here been on one? Does anybody know where I can find drawings or a technical review?

Still scribbling track plans,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 09, 2018, 09:13:54 pm
Does anybody know where I can find drawings or a technical review?

Are you talking about the new ALVRA for the Albula line ?

Infoflyer.pdf (https://www.rhb.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/redaktion/Ueber_die_RhB/Medien/Dokumente/Medienmitteilungen/Medienmitteilungen_2016/2016.06.11_Alvra-Gliederzug_-_Infoflyer.pdf)

A train Kato will hopefully "jump on"   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 09, 2018, 10:27:00 pm
Thank You Steve,

Yes, they are the cars that form the train but it seems that the Control Trailers, in UK parlance, are to follow. Having seen the plans it does seem as though the provision for wheelchair users is excellent even to the extent of redesigning the body shell to lower the window line. Those people designing stock for the UK should take due note.

Whilst I do like them I think I'd tend to put them behind the provision of freight stock but what say have I or we in what Kato provides next? Let's just be happy with what we can get now and hope for the future.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 10, 2018, 06:18:25 pm
I've been looking at current RhB trains at Filisur. It's good to see the 600 series of locos working the Glacier Express. The other thing seems to be that the RhB seem to be replacing the EW1 coaches with new ones in 6 coach fixed sets built to the full loading gauge profile. Five of these coaches seem identical but the leading one seems to be equipped with a dedicated wheelchair area.
Mike Beard.

Firstly, the Glacier Express is nearly always hauled by a '600' as all but the Ge6/6 locos are in the 600 series :-)

If you had seen my writings on other forums you would fully appreciate that the EWI are very much threatened (some have already been scrapped or sold including to the Baie de Somme railway not far from the UK!). Since last year the Alvra set have been working half of the Chur - St Moritz express workings.

The Alvra sets (aka Albula Gliederzug AGZ) are permanently coupled 7 coach sets comprising driving trailer plus 6 permanently coupled intermediate coaches (known as 'articulated' but not really in the traditional sense as if split an individual coach would stay standing up and not 'fall over' ). So far the driving trailers have not yet entered full service as their building was badly delayed compared to the intermediate coaches; so the Allegra units have been running round at each end of the journey!

In fact only two of the seven coaches are identical, namely the second class coaches B 57301-57306 and B57401-06. The train formation is loco (or Allegra): end coach: two 2nd class standard coaches: 2nd class family/bike/children/leisure coach: 1st/2nd composite coach: 1st class standard coach : driving trailer

What you called a 'wheelchair' coach is actually much more than that. It has a low floor area, two wheelchair spaces, and the 'photographers' area' . This section of the coach has sideways facing seats and opening windows.

I have travelled in an Alvra set and the normal coaches are similar to the Allegra.

I sampled the 'Photo' area but found it cramped and not terribly comfortable.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 10, 2018, 06:55:06 pm
Thank you for that Gordon, it is much clearer for that explanation. It's obvious that the car designers put their thinking caps on. As to the 600 class, I did of course mean the second series, the first being virtually extinct by my understanding.

It does seem as though we are witnessing a total renewal of the RhB coaching stock.

Do any of the single unit railcars still have a place or are they too a fond memory?

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2018, 12:16:47 am
As to the 600 class, I did of course mean the second series, the first being virtually extinct by my understanding.
Do any of the single unit railcars still have a place or are they too a fond memory?

The problem is that the Ge4/4III are also in the '600 series' so nobody refers to the Ge 4/4I or Ge4/4II as '600 series' . Incidentally the RhB themselves use the 'nickname' BoBo1 for Ge4/4I 601 - 610), BoBo 2 (Ge4/4II 611 - 633 but in two batches), and BoBo 3 = Ge4/4III 641 - 652.

Four Ge4/4 I (602, 603, 605 610) were literally brought back from the scrapheap as RhB realised just in time that they would need some locos to work the new Albula tunnel works trains.

.

There is a preserved 500 single railcar which I saw on a special in April 2017


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2018, 12:23:20 am
Here is a set at Berguen in April 2017. Allegra leading towards Chur, 'Fotoabteil' coach next to camera (and note also that other stock can still be coupled to the Alvra coaches - some more good 'thinking cap' work!)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118000831.jpeg)



At Preda in April 2017 I saw my first driving trailer on test, amazingly it pulled up alongside the 1947-built Ge4/4I 603. A mere 69 year age gap between the two items of non preserved rolling stock!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118002437-604151154.jpeg)



Then I saw one on test at Samedan in August 2017

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118002453-60429940.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118002450-604281675.jpeg)


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2018, 12:45:29 am
Do any of the single unit railcars still have a place or are they too a fond memory?



Here is 501 in April 2017.

Wasn’t expecting it so only got a poor distant shot from our holiday let

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118003925-60431441.jpeg)


Saw it close up a few days later being towed by 707 in a freight train

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-110118003915-604301912.jpeg)



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 11, 2018, 06:52:32 pm
All I can do is add this image of Ge4/4III 644 taken in 2003 while I was on holiday in Switzerland:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-110118180104.jpeg)

Now that I would like as a colour scheme on the Kato model.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 01:24:28 pm
The coach coupled to 644 was this one:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-120118131017.jpeg)

Now I've never seen a model of it nor any reference anywhere. Can anybody help?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 12, 2018, 01:35:26 pm
It's one of the Gourmino dining cars, which they've obviously painted in an advertising livery.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 01:52:51 pm
It seems that the Stiva Retica car is a bit more than a Gourmino car. It's actually a single car for 44 people that you can hire for parties etc. The RhB has a single page about it on its web pages. Yes, I've literally just looked here:-

https://www.rhb.ch/en/leisure-travel-and-excursions/groups-schools/charter-carriages/stiva-retica (https://www.rhb.ch/en/leisure-travel-and-excursions/groups-schools/charter-carriages/stiva-retica)

Oddly it seems as though it's a side corridor coach of some sort if you look through the windows, which are different to a Gourmino car. This is the Gourmino car we used in 2003:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-120118131640.jpeg)

It's coupled directly behind the rack loco that hauled us over the difficult sections of the Glacier Express. Not as well known as the RhB portion. I think it's at the mouth of the FO tunnel, I can't be 100% sure at this distance.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 06:00:38 pm
Now I've never seen a model of it nor any reference anywhere. Can anybody help?


This 'Gesellschaftswagen' started its life as a 'Schwere Stahlwagen' (heavy steel wagons) A4ü 1208 (later A 1208) back in 1929. 

This is the car back in 1989 A1208 (http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/schweiz~rhaetische-bahn~personenwagen/69299/rhb---a-1208-am-24091989.html)

And this is the car now, very nice interior, same style as an old Swiss restaurant, WR-S 3821 Stiva Retica (http://www.haribu.ch/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=47)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 06:22:06 pm
Found an interesting page on the Kato website (some may already know) and it seems we have to reload our wallets for May 2018. More Ge4/4II on the horizon. (http://www.katomodels.com/product/index_e.shtml)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on January 12, 2018, 06:55:34 pm
The coach coupled to 644 was this one:-

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-120118131017.jpeg[/url])

Now I've never seen a model of it nor any reference anywhere. Can anybody help?


Bemo have done a model of this coach but its in HOm, never seen one in N
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 07:42:16 pm
Found an interesting page on the Kato website (some may already know) and it seems we have to reload our wallets for May 2018. More Ge4/4II on the horizon. ([url]http://www.katomodels.com/product/index_e.shtml[/url])

steve


I've been through them and it looks to me that the Ge4/4II 631 will become available sometime in February 2018 and in May 2018 the Ge4/4III will be available with a full Glacier Express 6 coach unit, but I may be wrong. In the meantime there seems to be a "World Shortage" of Glacier Express "Add-On" 4 coach sets which Kato might like to address.

Happy Modelling - the Ge4/4II looks like being about $75.00,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 07:56:53 pm
and in May 2018 the Ge4/4III will be available with a full Glacier Express 6 coach unit


The description (and picture) on the first page is for another Ge4/4II or a 2nd run or follow up because of high demand of the same as in February 2018.

Quote
In the meantime there seems to be a "World Shortage" of Glacier Express "Add-On" 4 coach sets which Kato might like to address.


They already did, will be available also in May 2018. Place your reservation NOW ! (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=104&cat=&state=&sold=0&sortid=0&searchkey=10-1146)  ;)
(I did) :D

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 08:07:34 pm
That's interesting, I've recently paid about £45 for a Glacier Express Add-On 4 cars from what turned out to be China.  Even more interesting will be if they actuallyarrive! I think the new run will retail in the UK from £64, starting with TrainTrax and working upwards.

I'm in the planning stage, 12 foot x 2 foot portable, and I'm wondering what is the overall length of the Kato 10-1318 + 10-1319? It should set the design cat among the wanted passing loop length pigeons!

While I have your attention whose N gauge wagons can I "fudge" reasonably easily RhB freight cars from?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 09:07:15 pm
While I have your attention whose N gauge wagons can I "fudge" reasonably easily RhB freight cars from?


I would say @Gordon (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=704) is the one to answer that question, he's done several according to his pictures he posted.

I haven't done any fudging with freight cars, I am still in the designing phase (when time permits) for several different Ge4/4 III liveries and trying out different weathering steps for the locomotive roof (after all that is what we see first if we do not have a shelf layout on eye level).

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 12, 2018, 09:25:11 pm
I'm not convinced that the 11kV busbars on the loco roofs are black. In my day the porcelain insulators were an ivory colour, not black, and the busbars themselves were bare copper. Brake block dust tended to cut back the colours but the insulators were kept clean otherwise unwanted flashovers were the result. They punch holes in roofs!

Anybody got a colour photo of a Ge4/4III roof in service? Out with the Revell 84, again!

Please somebody run a measure over the 9 cars of the Bernina Express. It would so helpful.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 09:57:09 pm
Anybody got a colour photo of a Ge4/4III roof in service?

I went thru hundreds and hundreds of pictures online to collect some good roof shots, I saved them all on my computer but can't re-post them here as they are not mine. If you use the word Dachansicht in your search it can help.

I found a great picture of the green one on flickr, if I can find the link I will post it, I saved the link somewhere   :)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 12, 2018, 10:02:41 pm
@Mike Beard (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6079) , Dachaufbau is also a word you could use.

This (http://www.homepage.swissonline.ch/ABG-Technology/Ge4-4III/GeRtop.jpg) is a shot from a LGB model weathered by someone else.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2018, 12:37:36 am
Anybody got a colour photo of a Ge4/4III roof in service? Out with the Revell 84, again


Just look at the Filisur webcam. Southbound Ge4/4III often stop just below the camera.

This photo shows a recently outshopped loco so the roof colour variations are visible:

http://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/a1706260904714 (http://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/a1706260904714)

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2018, 12:43:44 am
While I have your attention whose N gauge wagons can I "fudge" reasonably easily RhB freight cars from?

See my reply #224 in this thread recently, and also my other  posts to this thread right back to number 0 (I started the thread 2.5 years ago in June 2015! )


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2018, 12:48:38 am
The description (and picture) on the first page is for another Ge4/4II or a 2nd run or follow up because of high demand of the same as in February 2018.


As I read it, the newsletters show the originally planned issue of Ge4/4II 631 in February 2018. The 'page' for May 2018 also says Ge4/4II 631, so it's not a second model, just more examples of the first one. Like you I imagine this reflects the number of pre-orders for the first batch.

And to think I was told this Kato RhB stuff would never take off!


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 13, 2018, 01:25:47 pm
I only have first hand knowledge of Dapol and Bachmann in the UK. Dapol, being in Wales, are very helpful for spares as are Bachmann. However they both suffer from "reservation fever" where they map out their ideas for the next 5 years or so. Kato seem to announce at between 4 and 5 months prior to delivery. I know which one I prefer.

What Kato seems not to have is a proper spares/maintenance organisation in Europe and that will tend to cost it friends in the long term, especially as the Swiss models become more popular.

Just some random thoughts,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 13, 2018, 07:55:09 pm
(1) Kato seem to announce at between 4 and 5 months prior to delivery. I know which one I prefer.

(2) What Kato seems not to have is a proper spares/maintenance organisation in Europe and that will tend to cost it friends in the long term, especially as the Swiss models become more popular.

(1) not really true. The Ge4/4II was announced a year ago for delivery next month

(2) Gaugemaster hold Kato spares, but in my experience (and I have obviously kept a close look on the subject) the spares run out at source in Japan frequently, simply due to the popularity of stuff.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 13, 2018, 08:58:34 pm
Well Gordon, in my experience announcing a new loco for delivery in one years time and actually making it is some sort of miracle.

I suppose you could assume that next month Mr Kato will give us another reason to live another year rather than fall about in mirth as we do at others announcements.

It's almost sane.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 13, 2018, 09:07:46 pm
in my experience announcing a new loco for delivery in one years time and actually making it is some sort of miracle.

It has to do with "we better announce it before the competition does" and then they start the R&D   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 14, 2018, 07:57:20 pm
So I have today ordered a Bernina 9 car unit. Interesting. is it safe to assume that a Ge4/4III can the used to haul the 6 coaches if a railcar is not available?

I watched a Bemo Ge4/4II lift a train, modest length, up a 5% grade today. Any ideas on what a Kato Ge4/4III will lift up a curving 5% grade?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 14, 2018, 08:07:44 pm
Anybody got a colour photo of a Ge4/4III roof in service?


Mike, how about this one ?

#647 (http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/schweiz~rhaetische-bahn~strecke-rheintal-lq-rei/721310/auch-die-rhb-hat-jetzt-eine.html)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 14, 2018, 09:05:32 pm
That's very interesting. It looks like some gentle matting of the paintwork and droppings from the overhead have happened, little more. The real thing is that the insulators seem to be white, not black and the 11kV busbars are much thinner than Kato would have you believe.

Pass the brass wire!

Thank You.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series - new Kato announcements
Post by: Railwaygun on January 15, 2018, 10:18:45 am
From: MikeBeard ngauge@Io
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 08:33:38 GMT
Hi Folks,
 
Kato have released their RhB un-modernised EW1 coaches as two sets, a basic set and an add-on set. Total coast for 8 coaches is about £150 or just under £20/coach. The EW1's can be seen at the bottom in the prototype photo.
 
The next item to come, in February in Japan, is a RhB Ge4/4II modernised loco. It carries the number 631 and is part of the second series of 11kV locos. Scaled at 1:150 it's about the same size as a UK N Gauge loco.
 

 
I understand it has proved to be so popular on pre-orders that a second run, unfortunately with same number, is planned in May. The prices quoted in Euros can be easily bettered BTW. Noch do add a huge mark-up!.
 
It seems there is an unknown coming up on the outside.
 
Happy Modelling,
 
Mike Beard. I
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 15, 2018, 10:53:57 am
I assume these are the same EW1 coaches already noted earlier here and that I bought from Train Trax last September, and had been released a month or so before in Japan.

As for the "unknown coming up on the outside", I wonder if this refers to the MDS Modelle items mentioned elsewhere earlier on this Forum that are currently listed to pre-order on websites such as Menzels Lokshuppen and Modellbahn Kramm?

https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Nach-Hersteller/MDS-Modell/ (https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Nach-Hersteller/MDS-Modell/)

Includes Ge 4/4II locos in various liveries as well as some much wanted RhB freight cars.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 11:13:18 am
The freight cars look good, and well priced for a pair too. The Mk2s seem quite competitive too, and look like their DCC (and sound) ready. Can't believe Kato still resist DCC compatibility quite so staunchly.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 12:03:27 pm
Hi Folks,

The quote by "Railwaygun" is taken from another N gauge chat site, very UK based. The guy coming up on the outside is Mr Kato. Good quality at a good price. Popular railway, look at Bemo's sales and exhibition layouts, look at the number of tourists, not all Japanese. Astute move long term. :D

My order for the 9 car Bernina line train was rejected, I assume because they made such a mighty Large Ricket  of supplying a previous Christmas present order. I now have a 5 car unit, the railcar and two coaches, on order elsewhere.  :censored:

So much to do, so little time,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 12:59:05 pm
To be fair, I don't see Kato and Bemo as true rivals - to me the Kato items are still more 'trainsety' (it's a word) than the Bemo offerings. My take would be that the popularity appears to have caught them slightly off guard, and subsequent releases do seem to be trying to address that - cavernous gaps between coaches spring to mind. Branching into older locos, coaching stock etc is clearly about having a holistic range, rather than some souvenirs for the tourist market.

I've yet to see a proper layout in the flesh using the Kato range, but the MDS items look like they'd broaden the scope significantly to make it a more practical reality without scratchbuilding.

Given the price of Bemo stuff these days I'd still be tempted down the Kato route, although I've always liked the idea of having HOm and HO side by side, which wouldn't really work with the Kato.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 01:50:50 pm
I do understand the point about Kato being to "train set" standards. This can be addressed by substituting different couplers for the horrid Rapido ones they started fitted to the Glacier Express sets. The other items that need addressing are the roof fittings on the locos. Certainly the busbars etc need to be finer and the pantographs really need replacing with more proper metal ones.

To be fair to Kato the EW1 sets include instructions on fitting semi-permanent couplings to the Glacier Express coaches and the two different EW1 sets include two spare couplings each to enable this. Also there is a conversion kit available in Japan to couple the full set of Glacier Express coaches closer together. It includes shorter corridor connections but I understand that these only need to be fitted if your using the Kato 6" curves otherwise the fitted longer ones are fine.  It makes sense to use semi-permanent couplings. On a typical "Roundy-roundy" layout how often would you separate the loco from its coaches?  There is a halfway house of fitting MicroTrains couplings at the end of semi-permanent sets and on locos and railcars. Freight stock is another problem and I would think that some experimentation will be needed to find a semi-automatic coupling system but I'd lean towards MicroTrains and Rix uncouplers.

The MDS bogie vans are going to be a welcome addition but might we risk drowning in a sea of pure water as there are no other wagons readily available? What couplings do they come with? This is still unclear.

It's going to take a couple of years from now to produce anything approaching an exhibition layout as not everything necessary is available in 1:150 scale. Bit of an understatement there but still. I'm hoping to have a 12' x 2' layout "in the nude", ie bare wood and working track but no decoration, by this time next year. Worle New Year Show and all that? We'll see.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 02:15:37 pm
Not sure that's true, 1:148 and 1:160  are rather well established after all, and you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference for many items.

I agree that they're trying to move away from the trainset image, indeed I said as much, which is laudable. Would be good to continue to see the range expand.

It's still fighting a battle of the scales too - as the track scales to a whopping 35% wider than the prototype. Whilst British N is about 8% too narrow it's hard to overlook a 35% discrepancy, and don't the Ge4/4 IIIs scale too short too, possibly as a result of ensuring they'll work on their 6" radius curves. Anyone re-wheeling them for Z gauge track?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 03:12:51 pm
I think the Kato Ge4/4III will be longer than its Ge4/4II brother.  In retrospect I could have compared it with its Bemo equivalent yesterday at Worle - fast back 24 hours!

As to the gauge discreperancy I'm not going to get worked up over that issue. I'd rather use Peco track. In fact I'm looking forward to making the scissors crossover with integrated double slip as per Filisur as modelled by Barry Kelsall.

I've been trawling through the  Plaza Japan website and I've come across a lot of spares for an ABe4/4. Anybody got any bright ideas?
Equally does anybody know of a spares holding of traction tyres for the Ge4/4III anywhere in the world?

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 03:55:14 pm
Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.

Kato GE4/4s are 103mm over buffers, or 15.45m. The prototype is 16m, so the model is nearly 4mm short.

Bemo ones are 184mm, or 16.008m. So it's 0.009mm too long.

LBG G Scale ones are 65cm, or 14.62m, so they're the shortest of the lot, and IMO they look a bit squashed!

All figures proffered by Google, so may not be 100% accurate. Can measure all 3 next time I see my dad!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 04:19:16 pm
Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.

ABe4/4 is one of the two powered parts of the Allegra. Nothing odd at all.

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 04:25:01 pm
Can't believe Kato still resist DCC compatibility quite so staunchly.

Please explain what you mean with that. Simply replacing the Kato analog PCB with a DCC decoder from digitrax or TCS, can it get any more "DCC compatible" than that ?

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 15, 2018, 04:25:53 pm
In reality the Ge 4/4 II is 12960mm, whereas the Ge 4/4 III is 16000mm over the buffers.

Scaled down that should put the Kato model of the III at 106.66mm, but in fact all the ones I have are approx 103mm.

The forthcoming Kato model of the II should be around 86.44mm, though oddly MSL show it listed with a length of 112mm! :o Oops!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 04:35:10 pm
Equally does anybody know of a spares holding of traction tyres for the Ge4/4III anywhere in the world?

They are scheduled for February delivery.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 05:04:13 pm
Thanks for the news concerning the traction tyres for the Ge4/4III :)

To my dreaded draughtsmans eye the Kato pre-production Ge4/4II is certainly more "stubby" than its younger brother. I find it difficult to measure a loco on the layout. You have to decide if your going to run railways or collect them. 50+ years tells me I have never met a happy rivet counter! :laugh:

It is very strange about the ABe4/4. If you google it a number of production late model ABe4/4 appear in the photo section. However in the dim, distant past Kato may have made an ABe4/4 for somebody else in the same way they made locos for Atlas. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 05:08:45 pm
Can't believe Kato still resist DCC compatibility quite so staunchly.

Please explain what you mean with that. Simply replacing the Kato analog PCB with a DCC decoder from digitrax or TCS, can it get any more "DCC compatible" than that ?

Seriosuly? Of course it can - they could adhere to NMRA standards and fit sockets like every other manufacturer, rather than relying on two manufacturers making drop-in decoders to work with their proprietary designs. Surely that's obvious? What if I want to use Zimo, CT or ESU decoders? They have made zero concessions to DCC; TCS and Digitrax have simply worked around this.

Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.
ABe4/4 is one of the two powered parts of the Allegra. Nothing odd at all.

Ah, fair enough, was thinking of the old railcars.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 05:20:07 pm
Seriosuly? Of course it can - they could adhere to NMRA standards and fit sockets like every other manufacturer, rather than relying on two manufacturers making drop-in decoders to work with their proprietary designs. Surely that's obvious? What if I want to use Zimo, CT or ESU decoders? They have made zero concessions to DCC; TCS and Digitrax have simply worked around this.

Oohps, yeah coming from the 'Murican side of the hobby I am not that used to the NMRA sockets yet (Fox Valley Models have them) and simply exchanging the PC beats milling the frame any time. But you're right, a socket would make it more easy.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 15, 2018, 05:29:50 pm
Fair enough, yeah, they're ubiquitous on UK stock now, my only first hand experience of converting a Kato model is a Eurostar where one of the pickups broke, I had to un-solder and re-use the LEDs from the original PCB, and then had to file the roof of the body in order to get it to refit. Not the most onerous task ever, but to call it DCC ready is a bit of a joke (not suggesting they do).
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 15, 2018, 06:03:57 pm
It is very strange about the ABe4/4. If you google it a number of production late model ABe4/4 appear in the photo section.

This is a very sad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaetian_Railway_ABe_4/4_II#/media/File:Trains_des_RhB_(ligne_de_la_Bernina)_(Suisse)_(5302259235).jpg) one  :worried: 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 15, 2018, 06:32:18 pm
Nowt to do with owt, but I always though that as the Cambrian line no longer has freight second hand stock and first class management from the RhB would be a fine thing for Welsh community.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2018, 12:27:22 am
So I have today ordered a Bernina 9 car unit. Interesting. is it safe to assume that a Ge4/4III can the used to haul the 6 coaches if a railcar is not available?

It doesn’t happen in practice, but both are fitted with the same couplers so it is possible. At the moment all Bernina Express coaches are hauled by Allegra or Ge4/4II
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2018, 12:31:52 am
to me the Kato items are still more 'trainsety' than the Bemo offerings.

Even if they were ‘trainsety’ at the start, they certainly are not now.
Kato 1:150 scale is bound to be less detailed than Bemo stuff due to the smaller size, and if it is a bit more basic then I for one am not going to complain as the price (from source in Japan - not the horrendous German mark up!) is reasonable (Kato Allegra sample current UK shop price = £140; Bemo Allegra sample UK price = over £500.

The Kato EWI coaches are absolutely superb renditions of a type of coach I know extremely well, apart from the gap in the lower coach ends for the couplings which is an absolutely necessary compromise to make the coaches work in practice.


I've yet to see a proper layout in the flesh using the Kato range, but the MDS items look like they'd broaden the scope significantly to make it a more practical reality without scratchbuilding.

You are welcome to come and see my layout in the flesh at the European N gauge show this coming September.

Also, it really isn’t that hard to make a wagon or two, but of course not all RhB lines see freight wagons regularly anyway.

It's still fighting a battle of the scales too - as the track scales to a whopping 35% wider than the prototype.

I appreciate the track gauge is an issue for some people. All I will say is that once you have created a scenic layout it is hardly noticeable. And that is not just my own view. At exhibitions, looking at my layout people really don’t see a problem, and all I get from the viewing public is ‘wow that looks great, and so  realistic’ - and this includes senior members of the Swiss Railways Society and the Editor of Continental Modeller 
.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2018, 12:51:36 am

1. The MDS bogie vans are going to be a welcome addition but might we risk drowning in a sea of pure water as there are no other wagons readily available?

2. It's going to take a couple of years from now to produce anything approaching an exhibition layout as not everything necessary is available in 1:150 scale.

There are bogie vans, container well wagons and aggregates hoppers available from Shapeways, plus a now large range of old timer coaches and wagons; and it only takes about an hour to ‘kitbash’ an acceptable tank wagon or bogie flat from 1:160 European standard gauge. The Kato 1:150 helps here as the donor vehicles are already smaller being to 1:160.

My layout has been up and running since 2014, and has been exhibited at several shows ( booked for European Rail show this coming September. )

Nobody has noticed that there is a mixture of 1:148, 1:160 and 1:150 stuff. You can’t really tell the difference at the fabled ‘normal viewing distance for N scale’.

Note the following
1. British 1:148 items scenic items and road vehicles can be used (for example the Oxford VW vans)
2. Japanese 1:150 scenic items and road vehicles can be used. Helpful here is that as Switzerland does not have it’s own motor industry, Japanese cars are quite popular
3. Some Japanese buildings are surprisingly European in nature, the modern office block are quite similar to Swiss modern buildings (as the Swiss don’t seem to mind building monstrosities next to old timber buildings . Even some of the old style Japanese buildings are not far removed as Japan is mountainous.
4. If so desired one can use the old ‘distance’ thing and put 1:150 stuff towards the front and 1:160 behind (remember the 1970s when there were layouts with OO in the front and N gauge at the back ‘in the distance’)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2018, 01:11:49 am
In reality the Ge 4/4 II is 12960mm, whereas the Ge 4/4 III is 16000mm over the buffers. that should put the Kato model of the III at 106.66mm, but in fact all the ones I have are approx 103mm.

Kato GE4/4s are 103mm over buffers, or 15.45m. The proto is 16m, so model is nearly 4mm short.

It should be remembered that the one thing that is a ‘dangerous’ when scaling any N gauge item is the buffers/couplings as that is the one area where a model may have to be a compromise compared to the real thing. This is especially problematic with Swiss metre gauge as most vehicles have no buffers in the standard gauge sense. For this reason when scratchbuilding I always take the overall length of only the bodyshell from a dimension drawing. Unfortunately I can’t lay my hands on a Ge4/4III drawing…   

The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there abouts.

Out of interest the TT Trams Ge4/4III on shapeways is quoted as 104mm long and I assume TT Trams guys have done the homework - as all there other stuff excellent.

ps - sorry about all the posts but lots of interesting debate today!

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 06:54:53 am
The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there

Ge4/4 IIIs (and most RHB stock) do have a single buffer as you well know. Length over buffers is a standard metric, and shouldn’t include couplers or anything like that. It’s not the end of the world, it’s close, but they are short.

I’m glad you’re happy with the track width, i do hope to see your layout sometime, for me it really grates and you’ll never get away from that. That others are happy is evident from the expansion of the range, but I’m not keen.

I also said they’re deviating from the trainset market their first models appealed to. Twice. No need to be so defensive.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 16, 2018, 07:04:30 am
Quote
ps - sorry about all the posts but lots of interesting debate today!

No apology necessary Gordon, as I for one am quite happy with the Kato RhB items, and appreciate your knowledge and expertise.

Any discrepancies in scaling, or detail differences in the modelling are very minor issues for me, and as you say, the recent releases from Kato are very good.
Perhaps it is age and poor eyesight, but when viewing a Kato model at normal viewing distances, I like what I see. With photographs of models often being presented in a magnified state, it is always going to be possible to see detail problems, but given the N scale we are dealing with I find them very acceptable. For the price they are outstanding, especially given the quality of the loco internals. Things could always be improved, but then I suspect the price would rise accordingly.

I am also happy to mix 1/148, 1/150 and 1/160 scales, my layout being a mix of SBB and RhB operations (with a bit of BLS thrown in as in the real world, and also to satisfy Rule #1).   
For vehicles, I find the Busch, Herpa, Noch, Rietze, Tomytec and Oxford ranges sit happily side by side with considered positioning.

It would seem that that early days of Kato RhB are passing, where the manufacturer seemed to be responding to a demand from Japanese tourists for models of the iconic Swiss trains they had seen on holiday in a smaller scale and at a lower price than the Bemo range. Indeed, I sometimes feel, when visiting the hotspots in the summer over the last decades that there are more East Asian tourists in Switzerland than there are Swiss nationals!  In time, as the popularity of Kato Swiss models increases, perhaps we may see a greater diversity in the Kato range, coupled with the improvements in modelling. MDS Modelle evidently see the expanding niche market, and maybe others will follow, or we will see further stimulation from Kato, in time. Who knows, we may even see other Swiss rail company liveries and models in the future. WAB, JB, MOB, ZB, et al - the possibilities are many, though problematic.

I don't for one moment think RhB in N Gauge will match the depth and breadth of the Bemo range, but it's nice to dream.

All in all, the future could be good for the tourist, the enthusiast and the modeller alike.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Bealman on January 16, 2018, 07:09:50 am
Gordon does bring up a list of valid stuff that makes for interesting reading.

I for one do not worry about half a mill here and there, wether it be buffers or track gauge.

And I would love to see the layout in September, but twelve inch to the foot scale unfortunately will probably rule that out!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 08:40:41 am
Half a mill, nope, you’re right. 3mm on the track width? Bit different. Well done for being dismissive though.

I’m certainly impressed with the prices as you say Mike, as always with Kato the prices from Japan are superb, and somewhat less impressive from most UK retailers! Less than £120 for the 5-car Bernina set is amazing, even factoring in import and taxes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Bealman on January 16, 2018, 08:51:00 am
3mm doesn't bother me either. What looks right is right. If the scenery and atmosphere of the layout gives a sense of satisfaction when viewed, then goal achieved.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 16, 2018, 08:53:34 am
Half a mill, nope, you’re right. 3mm on the track width? Bit different. Well done for being dismissive though.

Z scale track is too narrow for meter gauge in 1/150 anyway (splitting hair much)  ;)

But it is easy to re-gauge the Kato models to Z track (6.5mm). There are 'how to' online and it can be done with common tools. I've done a Kato RSC-2 once for a narrow gauge locomotive.

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 09:11:41 am
Can see that being a decent solution, although obviously a bit of a faff at least the amount of rolling stock one would expect to have would mean it shouldn't be as bad as trying to do 2FS or anything like that for your average UK layout.

Z scale track being 0.17mm out really is splitting hairs as you say, but would look much better to my mind. I just think it's such a prominent feature of the prototype that I'd want to try and replicate.

Odd really, I'm not offended by OO or N gauge track (with standard gauge models) in the same way!

Completely moot at the end of the day, the chances of me building a layout are slim to none, I've already got one layout I never do anything on!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Bealman on January 16, 2018, 09:34:30 am
Issue over, then.  :thumbsup: :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 16, 2018, 09:53:25 am
Trying hard not to be accused of resurrection, but for those keen to see Kato N scale RhB using an approximation of metre gauge tracking, there is always the well respected portal of AB Modell - Anja Bange Modellbau, where, for a price, you can buy all sorts of goodies, spares or complete models, many of them special editions. These use 6.5mm Z Gauge tracking, and list as Nm scale. They do regular N Kato items too.

http://www.n-schmalspur.de/ (http://www.n-schmalspur.de/)

But as George says, this oft-repeated issue is over. I hope.

 :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 10:00:27 am
Well it isn't over it's not something you'll "fix", but I'm not the one perpetuating the discussion, and I remain interested in the range, hence my ongoing participation here.

That the track gauge is wrong is just one of those things. There are many products there are flaws with, this is just one. I'm not sure why people are so uppity about it. It is wrong. That doesn't matter to many, it does to some. Let's move on with discussing the range, but dismissive posts about "it's only half a mil" are rude and incendiary.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 16, 2018, 10:17:24 am
Issue over, then.  :thumbsup: :beers:

 :beers:  can we get one with Guinness ?

R.I.P Dolores, gone too soon   :'(

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 16, 2018, 10:21:50 am
The problem with adopting Z scale (1:220) gauge track is that seemingly the range is limited and the sleeper spacing is wrong so really your down to building your own track. Now I've got a whole load of Atlas code 55 I could assasinate but because life is too short, especially at my age so I'll accept Peco N gauge track and probably mix their Set track and code 80 electrofrog. Peco Set track curved points look a space saver and RhB stock won't look that silly going over them. The great thing about Peco N gauge track is that the design is so hopelessly unlike anything anywhere in the world you can use it and it still looks right, on a dark night with your eyes half open etc. You know what I mean. Now if somebody did an RhB specific track range at 6.5mm gauge with a small range of scale turnouts, well that's a fish of a different colour but I don't want to bury my layout in snow just to disguise the sleeper spacing.

I'm done on this part of the subject! But I'm sure we will come back to it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 16, 2018, 10:31:47 am
That the track gauge is wrong is just one of those things. There are many products there are flaws with, this is just one. I'm not sure why people are so uppity about it. It is wrong.

Grown up in Switzerland I have had early Bemo models, back in the day when they were affordable (according to my salary). Nowadays I live on the other side of the world and I am very happy Kato came out with their affordable 1/150 scale models. I do not have a layout yet, one reason is that I am not sure yet if I will go 9mm track or hand laid 6,666666666667mm (there it is again) ;) or the easy way out and use Rokuhan Z scale. For the moment I am busy designing all sorts of billboard liveries for the Ge 4/4 II and III. Model railroading is fun and I like it, much.

steve       
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 16, 2018, 11:15:47 am
Totally agree, although less of that model "railroading" here ;-)

We're all excited that Kato have come out with this range, hence our participation in this thread, I suspect 90% of posts are by about 5 people. That's why it's a shame to get to a point where people feel they're being attacked on their stance.

The problem with adopting Z scale (1:220) gauge track is that seemingly the range is limited and the sleeper spacing is wrong so really your down to building your own track.

Well it's a question of which compromise you prefer, but yes, as with anything if you want true high-fidelity track then building it yourself is the best (/only) way. At the end of the day, as others have said, Peco N is a compromise anyway, in every respect, but it's still what most UK-based modellers (myself included) use anyway.

For some reason I don't remotely understand this appears to be a very sensitive issue. So, moving on... I wonder if someone like Adam from Electra vinyls could/would do overlays for the various advertising liveries, just like the real thing. I would guess demand/production run size would be the issue, but his latest vinyls are very good IMO.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on January 16, 2018, 05:48:54 pm
the thread has been unlocked due to public demand.

Caveat scriptor!

Rule One lives.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 17, 2018, 09:26:24 am
Thanks all for this interesting discussion! I don't think that locking the thread was necessary ... :no:


The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there

Ge4/4 IIIs (and most RHB stock) do have a single buffer as you well know. Length over buffers is a standard metric, and shouldn’t include couplers or anything like that. It’s not the end of the world, it’s close, but they are short.

In Europe, on stock outfitted with Mittelpufferkupplungen ("center-buffer couplings"; commonly Scharfenberg type) the couplings are indeed included in length over buffers measurements (they are the buffers there, after all).

But the model couplings are usually oversized, so measuring the bodyshell length, as Gordon said, is certainly a better way of scaling a model. With length over buffers the manufacturers can cheat - I remember the Minitrix Taurus which was based on another chassis (BR 152?) and was too long. But with shortening the buffers and crash element boxes, they produced the "correct" LüP. ;)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 17, 2018, 09:43:57 am
Thanks all for this interesting discussion! I don't think that locking the thread was necessary ... :no:


The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there

Ge4/4 IIIs (and most RHB stock) do have a single buffer as you well know. Length over buffers is a standard metric, and shouldn’t include couplers or anything like that. It’s not the end of the world, it’s close, but they are short.

In Europe, on stock outfitted with Mittelpufferkupplungen ("center-buffer couplings"; commonly Scharfenberg type) the couplings are indeed included in length over buffers measurements (they are the buffers there, after all).

But the model couplings are usually oversized, so measuring the bodyshell length, as Gordon said, is certainly a better way of scaling a model. With length over buffers the manufacturers can cheat - I remember the Minitrix Taurus which was based on another chassis (BR 152?) and was too long. But with shortening the buffers and crash element boxes, they produced the "correct" LüP. ;)

Yep, that certainly makes sense, particularly MUs as fewer and fewer have buffers (even in the UK) but again, Ge4/4s don't have Scharfenberg couplers (what do they have?! Are they still screw links?), and do have buffers. It's pretty moot, we really are talking tenths of a mm on the model at that point!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 17, 2018, 09:57:43 am
No, the narrow-gauge couplers are not Scharfenbergs. But all these couplings are still referred to as Mittelpufferkupplungen, so I am sure that the couplings are included in the LüP measurement.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 17, 2018, 10:03:26 am
Ge4/4s don't have Scharfenberg couplers (what do they have?! Are they still screw links?), and do have buffers.

Buffers yes, as in one on each end. On one side of the buffer is a hook, on the other side a screw link.

#651 Fideris (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Ge_4-4_III_651.jpg)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 17, 2018, 10:16:03 am
Just found this link, lots of very interesting pictures (https://twitter.com/calandamountain) about the RhB. (just ignore the login should it pop up)

Have you ever seen this one (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFa6REKXcAEbR54.jpg) before ? (The Ge4/4 III in the making)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 17, 2018, 12:26:36 pm
Good find on the Twitter feed from Lokführer, Steve. :thumbsup: Duly bookmarked, though I shall never join the tweeters.

Nice construction pic too. I wonder if there's video footage anywhere? :hmmm:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on January 17, 2018, 02:49:35 pm
Hi,
As another RhB fan...( and owner of a litte Bemo colection..when they were cheaper :D)  I will buy Kato and others Rhb-ers at two conditions
1) My wallet doesn’t cry!
2) They wil be at proper gauge (6,5 mm.)

Greetings from Italy....where the Rhb begins

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 17, 2018, 07:45:19 pm
No, the narrow-gauge couplers are not Scharfenbergs. But all these couplings are still referred to as Mittelpufferkupplungen, so I am sure that the couplings are included in the LüP measurement.

If this is indeed the case then that does explain the 'discrepancy' and also suggests that the Kato body itself is the correct length
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 17, 2018, 09:48:38 pm
How do you mean?

The prototype is 16m over the buffer/mittelwhatsit (gotta love the Germans!) - there are no couplers protruding further so there’s no ambiguity in the measurement, so the Kato one ‘should’ be 106.7mm excluding any couplers. It’s not, it’s 103mm.

Maybe if you include the rapido couplers it scales to 16m, but that’s obviously pretty daft, and still makes the body too short.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 17, 2018, 10:13:51 pm
so the Kato one ‘should’ be 106.7mm excluding any couplers. It’s not, it’s 103mm.

Maybe if you include the rapido couplers it scales to 16m, but that’s obviously pretty daft, and still makes the body too short.


No need to include the Crapido couplers, they are out of scale in so many ways.  :D

As long as we do not have building blueprints or the exact length of the body we can't be sure that the Kato model is too short. There is no Mittelbuffer on the model so we can't measure the length over buffer on the model. The only thing we can measure for sure is the body length. We need blueprints or someone out there with a measuring tape to measure the length of the real thing.

@Gordon (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=704), next time you are in Graubuenden could you please measure one for us ?  ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 17, 2018, 10:22:16 pm
Ahhhh, the fact there’s no buffer on the model was lost on me, I see Gordon’s point now!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 18, 2018, 06:22:06 am
For clarity, here's a photo of the front end of one of my Kato Ge 4:4 III's. I've set the front of the bodyshell as exactly against the 10cm mark as I can manage, then photographed it from directly above that point. As far as I can tell, with the caveat that a measurement is only as good as the measuring device and the measurers eye, the rear of the body shell coincides with the 20.3cm mark on the rule, making the shell the 103mm quoted.

With 3.7mm to 'find' to make the model 1/150th of the real McCoy, we only need the 'missing' Mittelbuffer to protrude 1.85mm at each end for all to be about right. In my view therefore, it's about right, and I'm happy with that. (Was I ever unhappy about it? :hmmm: Er..... nope! :no:)

Please note that I did not see the point of showing the whole loco against the ruler due to lens parallax problems distorting the perspective.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/5634-180118061141.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=60717)

But as Steve says, without a view of the blueprints of the original (though all sources I find quote the same 16000mm), nothing is certain.

Like life, really. And I'm easy going about that too.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 18, 2018, 11:07:10 am
Moving on a bit. A Schafenberger(?) coupling is the one with air connections at the top and electrical connections underneath. Found mainly on EMU's including a lot of UK ones.

I can't measure the length of a loco as it goes by. Rivet counters are always unhappy over something.

Track. I have a memory that RhB plain track is now mainly concrete sleepers but when did this start and is it universal? Are the turnouts on timber or concrete and if the main running lines are concrete sleepers what are passing loops and sidings laid with? It's not easy even with compromise.

Your thoughts would be appreciated as I am designing my 12 foot x about 2 foot - spirals? portable.

I'm informed that my Allegra left the shop today in Japan, so I could open a book on when it arrives and if I pay import dues - highly probable as it's not from China.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 18, 2018, 11:21:03 am
Confusingly quite a few UK MUs (Pendolinos, Voyagers) actually use Dellner couplers, which are a proprietary (and I believe incompatible) version of the Scharfernberg coupler. But that's a whole different topic.

Re: track, last time I looked there was a real mix of wooden and concrete sleeper. One would assume, like most mainline routes that as they're replacing track they're using concrete sleepers and bearers, but aren't rushing to replace what they've got.

Chur - Landquart is concrete IIRC, but much of the 'core' of the route is still using wooden sleepers. It was 18 months or so I was last there, looking at photos it looks like the refurbished Landwasser viaduct is using concrete, as are bits of the route to Arosa and down to Tirano - particularly the last 10 miles or so, whilst a lot of the stations are still laid with wooden.

I'd probably use wooden if it were me, unless you're modelling one of the higher speed sections. I'd expect the vast majority of sidings and passing loops to still be wooden.

Edited for a bit more detail.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 18, 2018, 12:59:25 pm
@Mike Beard (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6079)  Maybe useful, depending upon the particular film, to take a look at some of the cab-ride videos that are plentiful on YouTube. I look at these quite a bit for detail stuff in general that my memory and photos don't satisfy, and in some it is quite clear what sort of sleepers are being used in different locations.
A Google search for 'Führerstandsmitfahrt RhB' brings up a good sample of these videos, many in HD 720dpi.

Google images also,a good source of info, as are Gordon's own photos that he has linked here somewhere, and sites such as this one :
http://www.haribu.ch/ (http://www.haribu.ch/)

Hope your Allegra is soon with you. I note that some members here have stated that their items from Japan have escaped duty despite being priced higher than the break point for taxation. Good luck. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 18, 2018, 01:55:57 pm
Yes, cab rides - of course. And you can stop them and study them too. Thanks for that, there is never anything worth watching on TV though the Glacier Express was on Quest this morning.

Buying stuff from abroad is always a gamble. I've "bought" a Glacier Express 4 car add on from China and I don't know if it's on it's way or not. Given that I'll get one eventually I've bought the close coupling set almost as an act of faith. Plaza Japan are fine but their prices are in the mid-range and with VAT and PO charges added show no significant advantage over the domestic suppliers. PJ do have a large range of spares though. The eBay/PayPal guarantee is helpful when dealing with the more dubious suppliers.

Why are the Noch Ge4/4III's almost twice the price of straight Kato ones? Is there something I've missed somewhere? Bachmann/Hornby don't double the price when they revise their decoration.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 18, 2018, 03:51:10 pm
Pricing in Europe is very confusing re Kato items, whatever their co-operative trade name, e.g. Noch.
Here are some notes in put together in 2016 and 2017 on the subject, with additions today:

I did comparisons of pricing of both GE and Bernina Express set items in Nov 2016.
In general, the cheapest carriage price I paid has been calculated to be from £17.00 to £17.50 each.
The current Gaugemaster price (as at Nov. 2016) per carriage was calculated to be between £23.75 and £25.00. (GM prices are a good indicator, though not infallibly, of UK SRP's). With these figures as a start point, sets containing locos were roughly evaluated, and the suggestion is that GE 4/4 III's in those sets could be considered to be priced at between £52.50 (cheapest I have paid) and £70.00 (based upon dearest current G/master pricing). This compares to stand-alone GE 4/4 III prices of between £148.00 and £160 (£152 is a common pricing), though Ruinalta 100 loco 74043 was only £105 at release in 09/2017 at GM, (and €199 or more in Europe!) but could be bought through Keith at Train Trax for only £75.60, though that was in one of his many 10% off periods, but still priced by him today, 2018, at £84.
In contrast, MSL in Germany (IMHO one of the best priced German/Swiss/Austrian sellers) still has the Ruinalta loco (part no. 74043 or 3101 depending on whether listed as a Noch or Kato item respectively) at €199.99. The Co-op liveried Ge 4/4 III is similarly priced, SRP €199.99 but discounted to €179.99. If I recall correctly, similar prices were or are found at other German retailers, such as DM Toys for such Ge 4/4 III's as Die Kleine Rote, and Heidiland (74037). Next to these I find MSL and others also list a few of the sets, for instance the Glacier Express Start Set (containing loco, two GE carriages, track loop and controller) for SRP €199.99 but discounted slightly to, e.g. €189.99.

Draw your own conclusions or inferences, but I conclude that locos (and carriages) in sets are a cheap way to go; single locos from some U.K. suppliers are not too bad compared to Far Eastern sellers, and non-UK European sellers are having a laugh!

Peesonally I prefer to buy in the UK rather than the Far East, not wishing to join the nervous wait for a delivery at an unknown additional cost. So far I have found Train Trax just fine, with some good occasional deals from Osborns and Scograil. The German retailers I use a lot for non-Kato items only.

N.B. Some of the above was written back in November 2016, with random additions to date. Exact pricings and availabilities have changed constantly in that time, and if it all makes no sense to anyone but me, then  :P

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 18, 2018, 03:56:30 pm
And just to add, I have no idea why two seemingly identical Kato locos, other than livery, such as Ruinalta and Heidiland should have such widely differing prices in the UK. Train Trax currently have them at £84 and £152 respectively.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 18, 2018, 04:38:10 pm
Hi Folks,

Just after Christmas I spent my Christmas money with TrainTrax. I bought the second EW1 set and I needed something to pull it. The Glacier Express starter set which has an undecorated loco - 644 - and two Glacier Express coaches with 3 lengths of track and a "putter-onner" were £96 while a single loco was £84. So for £12 I got two coaches, 3 lengths of track and a  "putter-onner". And that's just at one shop. Factor in Osborns and Gaugemaster and whoever in the UK before looking at Japan and Europe and you almost yearn for the stability of Hornby. Add in the likely reaction of HMRC and consequentially the Post Office and your looking to a First in Maths to make any sense of the prices. :dunce:

If TrainTrax had a permanent 10% discount then I could put my calculator away and always conspire to spend £100! But they don't so I cannot. :(

To sort of confirm what I said before it seems the base price for the Ge4/4II No 631 is $102.00  Now I'd willingly pay more for the "SIEMENS" livery one but only because I owe them my present state of comfort.

A long way away from track laying.

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 19, 2018, 11:27:54 am
I was talking about German pricing habits earlier. I've been looking at eBay for a PTT  bus, every Swiss station needs a PTT bus, and found several in Germany for about £20. Fair do's, not too much demand. However a postage cost to the UK of £22 is a bit silly to say the least. I just don't know why they bother advertising when shooting themselves in both feet. I'll ask young Michael at Osborns what he can do for me.

Happy Times,

Mike B.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 19, 2018, 04:48:52 pm
And just to add, I have no idea why two seemingly identical Kato locos, other than livery, such as Ruinalta and Heidiland should have such widely differing prices in the UK. Train Trax currently have them at £84 and £152 respectively.

The Heidiland is a NOCH exclusive model and they keep the price artificially high to blend in with all the other overpriced European train models. Nothing to do with Kato's price politics. I would like to have a Lazzarini model but I am not gonna help to increase Mr. NOCH's retirement fund.

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 19, 2018, 05:11:36 pm
I concor with the sentiments about the Noch locos. Interestingly there are always plenty about and certain folks are trying to "offload" their share at a reduced price but nowhere near enough.

However should Noch do the SIEMENS Ge4/4II loco I'd have an instant change of heart.

I'm hoping Train Trax will have one of their 10% brainstorms to coincide with the arrival of the first of the Kato Ge4/4II on these shores and give early warning so I can get over the magic £100 by buying one of those and one of the Albula locos as a batch.

Filisur Station arrived today but no time to take it out of the box yet but nothing wrong with it that Mr Revell's paints won't cure!

Cheers,

Me. 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 19, 2018, 06:42:50 pm
I was talking about German pricing habits earlier. I've been looking at eBay for a PTT  bus, every Swiss station needs a PTT bus, and found several in Germany for about £20. Fair do's, not too much demand. However a postage cost to the UK of £22 is a bit silly to say the least. I just don't know why they bother advertising when shooting themselves in both feet. I'll ask young Michael at Osborns what he can do for me.

Probably just the eBay Global Shipping Program, have you messaged any sellers to see if they’d do a better price?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 19, 2018, 06:50:41 pm
I was talking about German pricing habits earlier. I've been looking at eBay for a PTT  bus, every Swiss station needs a PTT bus, and found several in Germany for about £20. Fair do's, not too much demand. However a postage cost to the UK of £22 is a bit silly to say the least. I just don't know why they bother advertising when shooting themselves in both feet. I'll ask young Michael at Osborns what he can do for me.

Happy Times,

Mike B.

DM Toys have a Mercedes Citaro PTT, priced at €24.29. Their shipping to UK is €10.
At today's rates that about £30 delivered.

https://www.en.dm-toys.de/produktdetails/items/Faller_974569.html (https://www.en.dm-toys.de/produktdetails/items/Faller_974569.html)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 20, 2018, 06:19:21 pm
On another track entirely it was Running Day at the Railway Inn at Yatton station today. The WsM branch of the N Gauge Society was out in force.

I took the Ge4/4III to see how it would run. Very well over Peco track and pointwork of all types. That's given me the confidence to move forward with the layout design.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 21, 2018, 12:43:02 am

DM Toys have a Mercedes Citaro PTT, priced at €24.29. Their shipping to UK is €10.
At today's rates that about £30 delivered.


Busch 8339 is the pair of Mercedes vans for Swiss Post. One is the minibus version which are used on quieter routes and where the road is not suitable for larger ones.

Model Masters currently showing 2 in stock


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 21, 2018, 03:29:52 am
ModelMasters are at the other end of WsM to me. Unfortunately they are £3 more expensive than Osborns. :o
I was thinking about somebody's VW T3's, one a van, the other a Postbus of some sort. But thanks for the "heads up" on them, :)

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 21, 2018, 11:25:49 am
Just a couple of observations.

1     Plaza japan are selling Ge4/4III body spares. No photograph but talks about 651. I'm wondering if by buying that body and a "cheap" Ge4/4III I could get an expensive Noch loco at a reasonable price?

2     Would it be any help if Tomy were to do, say, a GE4/4I to fit on one of their many super chassis?

It's Sunday morning and I'm full of cold so the brain is not working that well.

BTW   Seen elsewhere Peco wholesale prices go up by 6% from Monday. That's double UK inflation Ouch!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 21, 2018, 12:49:08 pm
Just now it's snowing at Filisur and the Landwasserviadukt. To see some vehicles not normally seen I'd have a look now.

Shapeways where are you?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 21, 2018, 01:40:36 pm
I was thinking about somebody's VW T3's, one a van, the other a Postbus of some sort.


Do you mean this Lemke Minis set?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Minis-LC4315-VW-T3-2er-Set-PTT/401127552442 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Minis-LC4315-VW-T3-2er-Set-PTT/401127552442)
(€20.66+€10 shipping to UK)

I am not sure that the VW bus would be used as a Postbus? Looks more like this would be for PTT workers (phone line maintenance or something like this). But maybe on some lines a VW bus would be sufficient as a Postbus to connect very small villages?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 21, 2018, 03:09:47 pm
I'll probably get the "settings" bits from Osborns Models. I think they have them at much the same price and Michael will put them to one side so they get incorporated into a bigger order, it reduces the specific postage cost per item which is a very real consideration.

My mind is working away on layout design and I'm wondering if anybody out there has a spiral of any kind and if they have if they could tell me the radius and gradient and what a Ge4/4III or Allegra unit would pull up it? It could save me hours of work and a fortune in set track! :helpneededsign:

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 21, 2018, 03:12:39 pm
Haulage is very rarely a concern with Kato locos, particularly given you’ll be pulling short trains in the grand scheme of things.

Obviously totally different, but my 2+14 Eurostar will romp up a curved 2% gradient without any change in speed.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 21, 2018, 03:29:38 pm
Well thanks for that. Trains are not necessarily short as watching a few films shows it's nothing to see a Glacier Express with half a dozen EW coaches tacked on for good measure but probably only on the flat sections! No, My concern really is about a Glacier Express set or a complete Bernina set, trains of that order. Spiral design is a bit special and notoriously easy to get wrong unfortunately.

In the end it would have to be tested but it's nice to have that warm feeling that somebody else has done it before - and it works!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 21, 2018, 03:51:34 pm
6 coaches is really pretty short though, that’s my point.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 21, 2018, 04:36:16 pm
Oh yes, 6 coaches are short but they have mass and they have drag. When you are going round a curve there is a tendency for the coaches to try to derail towards the centre because they are in a higher than normal tension. So it's really drag and lift against tension, curve radius and gradient. Hence the question. I think I'm going to have to buy some set track and experiment.

I'm amazed nobody reading this thread has experience of spirals. :(

Mike Beard.

BTW Mr Moderator   Perhaps we could have an English spellchecker, not an American one? :unimpressed:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 21, 2018, 04:51:42 pm
You only asked about an hour ago, give it a chance!

That said, the easiest will be to DIY certainly, as there are lots of variables. The tendency for the vehicles to be pulled off the inside of the curve is much more prevalent on longer trains, I’d expect a Ge4/4 to manage at least a 3% gradient on 9” curves without a worry, and much tighter would risk looking too abrupt.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 21, 2018, 05:14:17 pm
There is, of course, a stage before all this. The first thing to do is to take delivery of the Glacier Express add-on set and the short coupling set to trial around the minimum radius curve that will go round. I'm tending to think of about 225mm radius to start with but that may have to squeeze to 193mm which would increase the gradient unless I make it a proper spiral with 225 in and 193 out. Time will tell.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 21, 2018, 06:02:25 pm
1     Plaza japan are selling Ge4/4III body spares. No photograph but talks about 651. I'm wondering if by buying that body and a "cheap" Ge4/4III I could get an expensive Noch loco at a reasonable price?

This is not a NOCH version, it's the Kato standard red and silver Glacier Express body.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 21, 2018, 11:51:31 pm
Just a couple of observations.

I'm wondering if by buying that body and a "cheap" Ge4/4III I could get an expensive Noch loco at a reasonable price?

2     Would it be any help if Tomy were to do, say, a GE4/4I to fit on one of their many super chassis?

You can get  Ge4/4III bodyshell on shapeways and paint it in any livery you wish. Admittedly it requires all the parts adding but the bodyshell is only £16.

.

Also, there is a Ge4/4I on Shapeways
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 22, 2018, 12:56:12 am
6 coaches is really pretty short though, that’s my point.

Oh yes, 6 coaches are short but they have mass and they have drag.


I have had a Glacier Express set now since the whole Kato project began and I can’t say I’ve noticed that much drag - they really are quite light and smooth running. Although I have not used them on gradients, I have run 6-coach sets round all manner of tight curves, reverse, curves etc without any problems.  I have run a double rake on my layout which has fairly tight curves.


Trains are not necessarily short as watching a few films shows it's nothing to see a Glacier Express with half a dozen EW coaches tacked on for good measure but probably only on the flat sections!


Correct, but not the bit about flat sections. Albula passenger train rakes are shorter nowadays but back in 2010
I saw some great stuff.


This is one of the longest passenger trains I have seen on the RhB, and it is certainly not only on the flat, as it is here tackling the bottom of the Bergün - Preda ‘carousel’!

There were 16 individual vehicles, and I would never have believed in 2010 that in 2017 I would be able to recreate the whole train in N gauge, which can now be done  using a mix of Kato RTR and shapeways items


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-220118003027-60875761.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-220118003030-6087636.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-220118003020-608732378.jpeg)


And on the same day one of the other GEX workings was a double set so 12 GEX coaches. This does not happen any more.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/704-220118003022-60874384.jpeg)


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 22, 2018, 09:33:42 am
It's a shame that NOCH are silly over their prices. It's also a shame that 651 is not a NOCH loco but currently to get one you have to buy a starter set 10-006 and they are expensive starting at £110 compared to the purchase of a complete 3101 @ £60 and a body for £30. Marginal isn't it? But you do end up with a spare body to paint!!

Nice pictures Gordon, very nice but they still don't solve my problem over model gradients. A trip to Model Railways Direct is called for, they are 10 miles away. Incidentally I wonder what the current draw on the overhead was and who held in the breaker while that set climbed the spiral?

Who told Faller it would be a good idea to make the Landwasserviadukt a 193mm radius circle? Has anybody got a set of plans......here we go again. Peco #1 radius at the least.

Cheers - full of cold,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 22, 2018, 09:42:25 am
Agreed, a shame they've made it so small, you'd have thought a 9" radius at least would have been sensible.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 22, 2018, 10:06:08 am
It's a good job that Faller didn't model true, as the original Landwasser Viaduct has a curve radius of just 100 metres!

I strongly suspect that Faller chose 193mm as the nearest they could get to making the viaduct at least look approximately right, while using a compromise radius given that most of the European track manufacturers, both currently produced and still prevalent for some users, have 1st radius curves of this magnitude:
Fleischmann, Arnold and Piko have/had 1st radius set at 192mm.
Minitrix and Roco have it set at 194.6mm.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 22, 2018, 10:10:33 am
But a bit restrictive to make it as tight as conceivable. Whilst there are plenty of manufacturers doing track with radii that small you have to assume that people will still seek to use the most gentle curves they can, and those integrating a significant structure like the Landwasser Viaduct probably have enough space for more than 193mm curves.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 22, 2018, 10:15:36 am
100 metres is 666mm in 1:150th scale. so really given the nature of the railway I suppose I'd look at 333mm radius. Now I've already bent the Ratio viaduct to 18" radius; AutoCAD is SO useful, so I suppose I could do something similar to a similar straight viaduct of European manufacture.

Now I'm off to read up on Xtrak planning software.

Happy Daze,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 22, 2018, 10:17:21 am
It's a good job that Faller didn't model true, as the original Landwasser Viaduct has a curve radius of just 100 metres!

I strongly suspect that Faller chose 193mm as the nearest they could get to making the viaduct at least look approximately right

100m radius (100,000 mm) / 160 = 625 mm radius in N (or 666.67 mm in 1:150)!
A little bit more than 193 mm should have been possible, I think. :-\
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 22, 2018, 10:30:18 am
Agreed!

@Mike Beard (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6079) ,it’s personal, but I find AnyRail head and shoulders above any other layout design programme, unless you want to do handbuilt track when Templot is the answer.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 22, 2018, 10:35:28 am
Who told Faller it would be a good idea to make the Landwasserviadukt a 193mm radius circle? Has anybody got a set of plans......here we go again. Peco #1 radius at the least.


Mike, if you don't like the Faller product and you have 'some' spare cash, maybe steinbogenviadukte.de (http://www.steinbogenviadukte.de/) is the one for you ? Direct link to the Landwasserviadukt. (http://www.steinbogenviadukte.de/art/show.php?art_id=154) Yes, he offers them in N/Nm as well.

steve

 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 22, 2018, 10:40:41 am
Has anybody got a set of plans......

There are some plans in this PDF (https://www.rhb.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/redaktion/Ueber_die_RhB/UNESCO%20Welterbe/Dokumente/Kandidaturdossier/Deutsch/2a4_de.pdf). Or you can contact RhB, they will happily sell you a copy of the original plans with all the needed measurements.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 22, 2018, 11:14:13 am
It's a good job that Faller didn't model true, as the original Landwasser Viaduct has a curve radius of just 100 metres!

I strongly suspect that Faller chose 193mm as the nearest they could get to making the viaduct at least look approximately right


100m radius (100,000 mm) / 160 = 625 mm radius in N (or 666.67 mm in 1:150)!
A little bit more than 193 mm should have been possible, I think. :-\


Yes, I agree. Seeing a real train on the viaduct compared to a Kato rake on the Faller model the latter seems a bit, shall we say, small.

Oddly other curved viaducts from Faller and Kibri have very similar radiii:
Faller 222586 - av 193mm
Kibri 37664 Semmering viaduct - 192 - 195mm
Kibri 37665 Albula viaduct - 220 - 228mm

The latter seems to be the largest radii available for these basic kits.

But then a large radius Landwasser model would take up a lot of layout room, and there would be a cost of production/sales price problem for manufacturers to contend with. I feel that many modellers want 'look' above reality due to size constraints, and would baulk at a high price item, no matter how accurate it was.
For those who want something closer to reality, there is always, as @retica (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6270) says, the DIY route. To see just how big a 1/160 Landwasser model would look, take a look at this Italian site where the modeller built one using a novel approach to getting the details right:

http://stefano.dalli.it/model/landwasser/ (http://stefano.dalli.it/model/landwasser/)


Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 22, 2018, 11:24:10 am
That looks good!

It wouldn't need to be full sized, as you say, I think few would have that amount of space, but even a 300mm radius isn't absurd. Like I say, it's not a 'train set' piece of scenery after all - to integrate it within a layout needs a fair bit of work, so you'd expect it to be of interest to people with at least modest sized layouts, rather than the very smallest requiring the tightest curves.

Interesting they're doing a range of them though.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 22, 2018, 11:56:11 am
The Kibri Albula viaduct might be the way to go. A Peco #1 radius curve would fit on it so planning is easy. It's 90 degrees so it's easy to plan around and Kibri make leg extensions but Pola used to do a useful box of stonework mouldings and it's amazing how it blends in with anybody elses stonework. Probably the way to go.

Thank you Daffy, you might be onto something there. I suppose you could combine the Faller and Kibri kits? Or cut a new trackbed and work off that. Or build an embankment.

Happy Daze,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 22, 2018, 02:40:24 pm
I've found a table giving Kato RhB vehicle lengths. Basically a Ge4/4III is listed as 103mm, an Allegra unit is listed as 3x110 giving 330mm. The Glacier Express coaches are 118mm while the Bernina Line coaches are 110mm. From this a Bernina Line train comes out at around 1 metre long while a Glacier Express is 811mm. So mixing my dimensions perhaps passing loops should be about a yard long, just as Peco intended. The Bernina Line trains would have priority or the loops will be arranged so they were different lengths on the 3 station lines.

Using my schoolboy maths a Peco #1 radius curve is 228mm so a circle is 1435mm  A 5% grade would represent a climb of about 71mm. I have yet to measure the height of a Ge4/4III on Peco Set Track. I don't know if that will work. The worse case is a loco pulling 6 Glacier cars as the power unit of the Allegra can be put at the rear of the unit and the train is marginally shorter. It needs some 3mm ply, a jigsaw and some Peco Track. That's this week gone then!

Anybody got a piece of Set Track and a micrometer/digital vernier just to get me started?

Cheers,

Mike beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 22, 2018, 03:05:11 pm
5% is very steep, I wouldn't be surprised if they managed it, but I'd try for less if you could. I'd also steer you away from set track if at all possible. It probably is the easiest on <250mm radius curves, but it'll look far better with much smoother curves if you use flex track and Streamline points.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 22, 2018, 03:47:19 pm
I agree with njee. Although Kato say their Allegra will climb a 5% gradient I would be very very wary of taking that at face value, particularly if you add the Bernina coaches. Also true of the GE.
Most agree that 3% is a limit, and spirals/helices tend to be at 2%. Of course you will find as many views on this subject as there are N Gauge layout owners, and it all comes down to what you want to achieve.

There is only one real choice - test, test, test!

And in that testing you must decide what it is you want to run on the gradient, not just now, but in the future.

I would say that to build to 5% from the outset without thorough testing of all stock at maximum envisaged train lengths would be to court disappointment. It might work. But it might not. You need to know it will work. And only you know the variables you will be having to cater for: curves, points, train lengths, individual locomotive power/capability, and of course, ambient wind direction. ;)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 22, 2018, 04:55:53 pm
I think the wind is blowing from the East in this instance. :laugh:

You have to start with something. I'm opting for Peco#1 Set Track to start the experiments with. If it does not work I can go upwards. The spirals cannot get too big or I'll need to put them on a seperate board and for a portable layout that would be a bit of a disaster. And Peco Set Track is very negotiable in the slightly used market.

In the end it's all a matter of balance. If an Allegra and its coaches are 1000mm long you need to allow for that in the design. Already the station and its approach spans two boards if they are 1220mm long. If that is not available and the passing loop length has to be shorter then I'll just have to drop a couple of coaches off the Bernina train.

I've been looking at freight trains at Filisur and if we want freight trains we also want a 700 class electric. I've noticed that Liliput have made the SBB rubbish container wagons. I've seen similar via the webcams, are they similar  to the RhB ones?

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 23, 2018, 10:54:44 am
Todays Thought.

If I buy something in Japan and it's declared in US$ I pay VAT and £8. :confused1:

If I buy something in Japan and it's declared in Yen it comes straight through. :confused2:

Happy Days,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 23, 2018, 11:33:43 am

I've been looking at freight trains at Filisur and if we want freight trains we also want a 700 class electric. I've noticed that Liliput have made the SBB rubbish container wagons. I've seen similar via the webcams, are they similar  to the RhB ones?



A reminder there's one on Shapeways. For the time being mine is on a Tomix chassis with dummy central bogie sides.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217003029-59593289.jpeg)


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 23, 2018, 11:39:41 am
Todays Thought.

If I buy something in Japan and it's declared in Yen it comes straight through. :confused2:
Mike Beard.

Hmm, even in Yen mine always goes via Parcelforce where money is added...


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 23, 2018, 11:46:34 am
Todays Thought.

If I buy something in Japan and it's declared in Yen it comes straight through. :confused2:
Mike Beard.

Hmm, even in Yen mine always goes via Parcelforce where money is added...


The currency is an irrelevance, it's a lucky dip frankly, everything should incur import VAT assuming it's over £15, or over £39 if it's marked as a gift. Over £135 you should also incur Customs Duty. There's also a handling fee which is disproportionate to the cost of the duty charges in most cases. I've had stuff >£300 get through with no fees, and I've been charged £12 on a £30 order.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 23, 2018, 12:10:53 pm
and I've been charged £12 on a £30 order

 :worried: That's bloody daylight robbery that is. What are they trying to achieve with that, that you buy domestic ? We have a NZ $400 threshold (including shipping cost) for now but retail NZ is demanding that we get charged GST (VAT) on everything we privately import. Great. I don't mind paying GST on stuff I import, what I do not agree with is that I have to pay a fee to cover the time to issue my invoice.

steve     
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 23, 2018, 12:35:13 pm
and I've been charged £12 on a £30 order

 :worried: That's bloody daylight robbery that is. What are they trying to achieve with that, that you buy domestic ? We have a NZ $400 threshold (including shipping cost) for now but retail NZ is demanding that we get charged GST (VAT) on everything we privately import. Great. I don't mind paying GST on stuff I import, what I do not agree with is that I have to pay a fee to cover the time to issue my invoice.

steve     

Usually my parcelforce fee is just low enough to make the purchase from Japan viable and cheaper than UK price.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 23, 2018, 01:29:18 pm
It's a fine calculation. At the moment 3101's are cheaper in the UK as are EW! carriages if you add in VAT @20% and the £8 Post Office fee. Allegra units are cheaper in Japan. NOCH derived locos are expensive everywhere. The DCC and "Glacier Express on Tour" sets are generally unavailable in the UK.

A number of companies are taking forward orders for the Glacier Express Add-On sets for delivery in June.

Quite what the UK supply situation will be for the Ge4/4II is unknown at the moment.

I think Kato announced the Ge4/4II this time last year, I wonder if anything will be said next month?

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 23, 2018, 02:11:37 pm
It's a fine calculation. At the moment 3101's are cheaper in the UK as are EW! carriages if you add in VAT @20% and the £8 Post Office fee. Allegra units are cheaper in Japan. NOCH derived locos are expensive everywhere. The DCC and "Glacier Express on Tour" sets are generally unavailable in the UK.

A number of companies are taking forward orders for the Glacier Express Add-On sets for delivery in June.

Quite what the UK supply situation will be for the Ge4/4II is unknown at the moment.

I think Kato announced the Ge4/4II this time last year, I wonder if anything will be said next month?

Mike Beard

One problem compared to the early days of Kato RhB is the change in the exchange rate / value of the Yen. My early purchases from Japan were much cheaper even adding on the Parcelforce 'handling' fee


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 23, 2018, 02:15:49 pm
and I've been charged £12 on a £30 order

 :worried: That's bloody daylight robbery that is. What are they trying to achieve with that, that you buy domestic ? We have a NZ $400 threshold (including shipping cost) for now but retail NZ is demanding that we get charged GST (VAT) on everything we privately import. Great. I don't mind paying GST on stuff I import, what I do not agree with is that I have to pay a fee to cover the time to issue my invoice.

Yes, I was displeased. The postman suggested I didn't pay it, when it would be returned to the sender after 2 weeks. It was £8 fee and £4 duty. With Parcelforce the fee is £11.50, which is even more annoying on comparatively low value goods.

I only do it if it's head and shoulders cheaper. I got my Kato Eurostar from Japan, and even with fees it was vastly cheaper than any UK retailer. If it's marginal I'd not do it personally.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 23, 2018, 02:33:28 pm
Todays delivery was a Kato 10-1318 which cost about £115. Add 20% VAT and the Post Office at £8 and it's about £146. Look up how much it is in the UK. Makes no sense. But the Bernina Add-On packs, 10-1319, seem to be in an oversupply situation and so are not worth the risk of a personal import.

It will be interesting to see the "Pricing Policy" for the Ge4/4II.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 23, 2018, 09:11:36 pm
I've been looking and NOCH make spirals. Have a look at their 53026. Interesting. It looks like the components are available separately.  45 degree components.

There is also a 33 minute video on you tube but he does not say how he joined the 180degree segments to make 360 and he uses nails to hold the flexitrack in place so I was less than impressed.

The search goes on,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 23, 2018, 09:28:43 pm
It will be interesting to see the "Pricing Policy" for the Ge4/4II


I ordered mine from Hobbysearch *in Japan for JPY7650 (which is roughly £49.50 or NZ $94.30 according to *the website www.xe.com). They are a bit more expensive than *normal JR *Japanese models, I just got an email *(from Hobbysearch) that my **DF200 are ready @ JPY5780 a piece *(which is roughly £37.40 or NZ $71.20).

**DF200 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10482869)

steve 

* Edit: tried to change the code into something making more sense and more understandable. Better ?   ;)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on January 23, 2018, 10:50:20 pm
It will be interesting to see the "Pricing Policy" for the Ge4/4II


I ordered mine from Hobbysearch *in Japan for JPY7650 (which is roughly £49.50 or NZ $94.30 according to *the website [url=http://www.xe.com]www.xe.com[/url]). They are a bit more expensive than *normal JR *Japanese models, I just got an email *(from Hobbysearch) that my **DF200 are ready @ JPY5780 a piece *(which is roughly £37.40 or NZ $71.20).

**DF200 ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10482869[/url])

steve 

* Edit: tried to change the code into something making more sense and more understandable. Better ?   ;)


Difficult to say!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 23, 2018, 11:35:44 pm
Difficult to say!

I got an email that my post wasn't understandable so I added some more words. But if it is too difficult I could also simply delete it, would that be better ?

steve   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 24, 2018, 08:41:30 am
I understand it perfectly (reading with or without the red bits), just leave it, not sure how it can be confusing. :)

I've been looking and NOCH make spirals. Have a look at their 53026. Interesting. It looks like the components are available separately.  45 degree components.

You can always glue track, just because the video uses nails doesn’t mean you have to. Various people make spirals, Proses also spring to mind. Generally designed for hidden helices though, rather than anything scenic.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 24, 2018, 08:58:25 am
can you point me towards the Proses spirals please,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 24, 2018, 09:32:26 am
Mmm they may not be doing them any more, their website (https://proses.com/prestashop/14-helix-systems) has a section, but doesn't list any products. They were acrylic, rather than wood. Model Railway Solutions  (https://modelrailwaysolutions.co.uk/shop/helix-kits/n-gauge-helix-kit) do them too.

Again though - these are all generally designed for hidden storage loops with multiple spirals, are you looking for something like that, or do you want a scenic spiral, like the Brusio viaduct? In which case you'll likely want something supported differently and will be best served building it yourself. Note also that nothing is anywhere near 5% gradient.

We're also digressing - there's quite a bit of information on the forum about helices, perhaps have a search (using Google with the modifier site:ngaugeforum.co.uk)?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 24, 2018, 10:55:44 am
Actually the Model Railway Solutions helix looks good. Only trouble is that the radius is just too large for a portable layout but me and my calculator, 4mm MDF instead of 6 and I should be able to come up with something interesting.

Thanks for posting that link,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 24, 2018, 12:41:02 pm
@Mike Beard (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6079) - I am very interested in the details of your layout plans, and look forward to the developments. Could I recommend that you begin a new thread in the Layout Planning and/or Layout Construction sub-boards to keep all these future details together, and thus maintain the integrity of this thread, which should be primarily about views, opinions and announcements of the Kato RhB series.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 24, 2018, 05:24:02 pm
and I've been charged £12 on a £30 order

 :worried: That's bloody daylight robbery that is. What are they trying to achieve with that, that you buy domestic ? We have a NZ $400 threshold (including shipping cost) for now but retail NZ is demanding that we get charged GST (VAT) on everything we privately import. Great. I don't mind paying GST on stuff I import, what I do not agree with is that I have to pay a fee to cover the time to issue my invoice.

steve     

Usually my parcelforce fee is just low enough to make the purchase from Japan viable and cheaper than UK price.


Whoop whoop.

My duck has been broken. Just had a package from Plaza Japan which arrived without being stopped at a mail depot for fees to be added! First one ever!


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 24, 2018, 05:30:39 pm
Congratulations!

HMRC must be relaxing after stopping everything before Christmas.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 24, 2018, 06:55:12 pm
I have been watching Filisur Station webcam. I get the impression that a Glacier Express set is worked empty - there is never anybody in it - at the moment while Zermatt is cut off. Today it was worked by an early electric loco, either one of the first Ge4/4's or one of the artics. There was also what looked like a local train of EW coaches worked by an early electric.

To make my joy complete there was a working by a Croc and the ex-CIWL coaches. Beautiful. Kato?

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on January 24, 2018, 10:56:26 pm
Difficult to say!

I got an email that my post wasn't understandable so I added some more words. But if it is too difficult I could also simply delete it, would that be better ?

steve   

thanks for expanding the text.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 25, 2018, 12:33:30 am
I have been watching Filisur Station webcam. I get the impression that a Glacier Express set is worked empty - there is never anybody in it - at the moment while Zermatt is cut off. Today it was worked by an early electric loco, either one of the first Ge4/4's or one of the artics. There was also what looked like a local train of EW coaches worked by an early electric.

To help you out I've had a look (I've stayed in the Grischuna room next to the webcam in the past...).

The northbound GEX set (at 10.22) was worked by a Ge6/6II (not a Ge4/4I), looks like 704. Perhaps rather pointlessly, The Landwasser camera 'clicked too late' on the same trains and missed the loco!

The GEX set was worked back by Ge4/4II 617 in - rather apposite - '50 years of LGB' livery

However, I'm not sure it was empty. There appear to be some people visible in the coach visible in the southbound working, as it is 1st class. In the northbound train you can only see the 2nd class coaches, and they can often be empty outside the main tourist season. 

Today's views prove that the regular express workings are now appearing in three versions

1) full EW set (the 'old'), albeit hauled by Ge4/4II (whereas in the recent past these have mainly been Ge4/4III). eg the 12.00 northbound was 626 Malans, the 13.02 southbound was 628 S-Chanf - both proper plain red!
2) Allegra + Alvra (the 'intermediate')
3) Ge4/4III + Alvra (the 'new')

Two of the diagrams eg the 08.08 and 10.08 expresses southbound were each Alvra sets - albeit with an EWII added to the Alvra - and both trains hauled by one of the two  'large logo' Ge4/4 IIIs, 08.08 was 647 (and 14.02), 10.08 (and 16.05) was 644,

I can't see the 'local train' you mention. If you mean the set that went northbound in the 10.03 picture, that's a regular express (the expresses cross at the 'top of the hour' every hour at Filisur

Of interest also was the 08.23 northbound freight, carrying what look like 4x4s used for some kind of event
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 25, 2018, 03:42:44 am
What I referred to as a "local" appears at 06.14 on the 24th. Oh, a horrid hour. I remember is well from my apprenticeship! :(

When I can raise the webcam site again I'll have a look for the Croc. :doh:

Cheers,

Mike B.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 25, 2018, 01:30:56 pm
https://www.stadtimmodell.de/images/Downloads/Neuheitenblatt2018web.pdf (https://www.stadtimmodell.de/images/Downloads/Neuheitenblatt2018web.pdf)

New items 2018 from Stadt im Modell - Landwasser viaduct and Filisur station in scale 1:155, so that it should fit to proper N and Kato RhB scale. :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 25, 2018, 01:54:51 pm
Looks to me like the Landwasser viaduct is just HO? Shame though, as it looks like a far more sensible radius than the Faller offering.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 25, 2018, 02:11:29 pm
I think they might have a bit of a problem in the Filisur area at 129 Euros for Filisur station that Kato already make. The hotel might do better though. It's a shame about the Landwasserviadukt, but if I want one----I'll just have to scratchbuild one. :laugh:

Incidentally has anybody taken Kato's Filisur building apart yet for detailing and painting?

Happy Times,

Mike Beard

Still in pursuit of the Croc! :uneasy:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 25, 2018, 02:12:25 pm
Sorry, you are right! :-[
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 25, 2018, 02:30:11 pm
No need to apologize. Thanks for bringing them to my attention. I do like the transformer towers. They put me in mind of the water towers in the US, insulated against the cold. Unfortunately though you can't swim in transformer oil. Probably just as well.

Cheers,

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 25, 2018, 02:49:41 pm
I'm not quite sure I get why we've got multiple models of the Landwasser viaduct. I get that it's iconic, but the sheer height of it means that you essentially need to build an entire layout around it, hardly any layouts will have the sufficient depth to integrate it.

Unless you mimic the exact configuration of the prototype it is also 'just' another bridge, and a rather expensive one at that. I can't see there's much of a market for them myself.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 25, 2018, 04:18:03 pm
 I have to agree you'd need it to be the main focus of a large diorama or some such to truly do it justice. (Al's Rhine bridge immediately springs to mind. :thumbsup:
 I may get to put a viaduct over a gorge, but I won't try to copy the Landwasser - unless I win the Lotto and move to a BIG house. :D
OVPMV.

I would have liked to see the new Filisur station models themselves, rather than just photos of the real thing on the Stadtimmodell pages. Until I do it's rather hard to compare it to the Kato rendering of the station, which is very basic. Hopefully some pics will appear soon, and if the price is anything to go by, it should [i/] be a far better model. Anybody have any experience of this manufacturer?

The set of four, subject to reviews, is certainly a nice idea, but for close on €350.00 that potential will have to wait for that Lotto win I mentioned. Or a moment of mad rashness. :D
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 25, 2018, 04:39:11 pm
The Landwasserviadukt is rather iconic. Back in the day even Barry Kersall didn't model it when he built the huge model of Filisur back in 1990's in HOm.

As to the Kato model of Filisur Station, a sensible company would bring out an upgrading pack. Anybody know a "sensible" company??

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 25, 2018, 05:11:39 pm
Probably better to just scratchbuild anything you think is missing. A good weathering would probably make the world of difference too, stop it looking quite so plasticky.

I'm not sure I'd call it sensible to release a supplementary detail pack for a niche model made by another company, a niche of a niche of a niche!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 25, 2018, 05:30:45 pm
I have friends who are still in touch with Barry Kersall up in Shropshire and I'll ask if he has any details he can make available although in truth it has probably all gone by now. I'm sure he used the Ferro Swiss(?) kit, it's not spelt like that. but it was gorgeous and the bells worked too! Now there's a thought!!!!!

I'll see what I can find but in 2005 Filisur was being rebuilt and you could not get near some of it and having worked it I was not going to modify my perceptions by looking too hard!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 25, 2018, 06:01:35 pm

I'm not sure I'd call it sensible to release a supplementary detail pack for a niche model made by another company, a niche of a niche of a niche!

Niche work if you can get it!

Ta da! :D
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 25, 2018, 06:14:00 pm
Just a reminder on the apposite thread that Keith at Train Trax is currently running one of his 5% / 10% discount events. Let's hope it's still running when the new Ge 4/4 II gets released next month.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 25, 2018, 06:15:32 pm
What I referred to as a "local" appears at 06.14 on the 24th. Oh, a horrid hour. I remember is well from my apprenticeship! :(
Cheers,

Mike B.

Ah yes, that one is the last southbound 'true' local on the Albula line. It is an official mixed train, aka Marchandises Voyageurs, aka GmP (Güterzug mit personenbeforderung).

It runs monday to Friday and is usually a Ge4/4II plus one or two Haik vans


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 25, 2018, 06:16:22 pm
Just a reminder on the apposite thread that Keith at Train Trax is currently running one of his 5% / 10% discount events. Let's hope it's still running when the new Ge 4/4 II gets released next month.

I've had the pre-warning for my Ge4/4II order from Japan, which usually means the items are imminent!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 25, 2018, 06:20:13 pm

Incidentally has anybody taken Kato's Filisur building apart yet for detailing and painting?


I've already posted in this thread about my re-roofing to make it more similar to Rodels-Realta. However the re-roof and 'amendments can be carried out as Filisur if one wants to keep it as Filisur. I don't think it as as 'basic' as all that by the way.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 25, 2018, 07:14:18 pm
The TrainTrax site is currently silent on discounts, I just ordered a donor Ge4/4III from Japan.

Gordon, can you point me to the page number for the Filisur mods please?

It looks like the Ge4/4II is running to time. I wonder if the second run will have the same number. It will be a shame if it does.

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on January 25, 2018, 07:18:07 pm
a supplementary detail pack for a niche model made by another company, a niche of a niche of a niche!

We are the Knights who say "niche" :no:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 25, 2018, 07:23:42 pm
I don't think it as as 'basic' as all that by the way.

Sorry, perhaps my poor choice of words, but I was comparing it to Faller kits I have and the Stadt im Modell which is described as given below on their website (Google translated), and would, I hope, include many detailed parts.

Quote
[Fine-detailed N Lasercut kit made of through-dyed cardboard as well as real wood components. The station of Filisur is presented in the state before 2004.

I also note that they are still looking for an additional 21 orders to be placed prior to commencement of production.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 25, 2018, 07:38:40 pm
The TrainTrax site is currently silent on discounts

I've just tested the Train Trax site and the discount is still on. Send an email to Keith asking for the codes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 26, 2018, 12:20:10 am

Gordon, can you point me to the page number for the Filisur mods please?
Cheers,

Reply 224, but admittedly the pictures are not great. I am doing some model photting sessions at the moment so will post some explanations.

In the meantime, the building can be dismembered fairly easily in various ways without destroying the bits you don't want to touch.   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 26, 2018, 12:33:59 am

It looks like the Ge4/4II is running to time. I wonder if the second run will have the same number. It will be a shame if it does.

If it isn't then one possibility will be to carefully renumber 631 to 621 or 632. 632 would be best as the two coats of arms are almost identical - this may be because the two villages are pretty close to each other.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 26, 2018, 12:47:40 am
It looks like the Ge4/4II is running to time. I wonder if the second run will have the same number. It will be a shame if it does.

A friend of a friend's sister's mother's boyfriend told me that he was talking to a guy who knows a guy who works for TOMIX which has a friend who knows the sister of a guy who works for Kato that the May release could be #616 with big blue letters on the side  :D :D   (Yeah right.)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 26, 2018, 01:00:15 am
It looks like #647 just got overhauled (https://i.pinimg.com/736x/4c/4e/71/4c4e71603b23ef4fccb4d1b0c0f3a801.jpg) as well.  (did I ever mention my dislike of that "clever" Pinterest "service" ?)

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 26, 2018, 08:19:37 am
It looks like the Ge4/4II is running to time. I wonder if the second run will have the same number. It will be a shame if it does.

A friend of a friend's sister's mother's boyfriend told me that he was talking to a guy who knows a guy who works for TOMIX which has a friend who knows the sister of a guy who works for Kato that the May release could be #616 with big blue letters on the side  :D :D   (Yeah right.)

steve

Not one electrical company being motivated by another perchance?

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 26, 2018, 09:48:27 am
On an entirely different subject I have  a problem looming and probably so do you. It results from Kato using three different coupler types. The Glacier Express sets seem to be all fitted with Rapido type couplers. The Allegra sets come with the Kato semi-permanent couplings and a scale coupling. The EW series of coaches come with 2 spare semi-permanent couplings.

So is it true that if I buy 2 Ge4/4III locos and 2 EW sets I've used up all the spare semi-permanent couplings? Exactly what comes with the Glacier Express coupler conversion set? To my eye the Bernina Set has very short gangways compared to the Glacier Express ones. Are the longer gangways available as spares?

Can I buy spare EW style semi-permanent couplings for Ge4/4III's?

Interesting isn't it? :confusedsign:

Mike Beard

Ex Siemens and ABB emplyee who can't stop giggling at 616.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 26, 2018, 11:24:05 am
It looks like #647 just got overhauled[/url] as well. 
steve 


Not quite 'just' overhauled, 647 was outshopped 5 months ago.

641 is now in works for rebuilding. It has been my most frequently seen and travelled with loco so it will be a bit sad if it loses the longstanding Co-Op advertising livery
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 26, 2018, 12:01:25 pm
1) On an entirely different subject I have  a problem looming and probably so do you.

2) Exactly what comes with the Glacier Express coupler conversion set?  Are the longer gangways available as spares?

3) Can I buy spare EW style semi-permanent couplings for Ge4/4III's?


1) Personally, I don't have that problem as I snapped up stocks of the spare parts sets of gangway connections and short couplings early in the piece.

2) The Glacier Express coupler conversion set comes with enough short couplings and enough short gangways to fully re-equip a Glacier Express set. The longer gangways are not available as spares but if you re-equip a full GEX set with short gangways you release long gangways for other uses. In my case I have used the spare long gangways to equip my Shapeways EWIIs and Ds vans.

3) If you acquire the short coupler conversion set you can use one of the short couplers to fit to a Ge4/4III

The sum total of all my coupler etc swapping is as follows:

I now have (amongst other items!)

1) three full Glacier Express sets, one entirely close coupled, others still with Arnold
2) several Ge4/4III fitted with one short and one Arnold coupling
3) a Kato EWI fitted with an Arnold coupling
4) an Allegra with scale coupling one end and short coupling at the other (I had to fit the short coupling myself as I obtained all my 3 Allegras and my Bernina coaches separately.
5) freight wagons riding on small American bogies (sanded down to look 'narrow gauge') with Arnold couplers
6) freight wagons riding on spare Glacier Express coach bogies with either Arnold or short couplers fitted (interchangeable)
7) spare GEX coach bogies and underframes for wagon and coach conversions and Shapeways items. I obtained very cheap GEX coaches early in the piece so they are 'cut upable'


The result of all this is that I have fully interworkable stock range locos / wagons and coaches, so can make up all the odd formations one sees
.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 26, 2018, 12:11:11 pm
Thank you for that Gordon.

I'm going to try and use the kato semi-permanent couplings as much as possible and use Microtrains couplings on freight wagons and locos selected for freight operation. It's nice to know that the Short Coupler conversion kit will fit the GE4/4III. My Allegra came fitted with semi-permanent couplers and the scale ones separately. I would imagine the scale couplers would fit anywhere and do look good.

There is no place in my life for Rapido couplers.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: stizzy on January 26, 2018, 02:18:56 pm

……
 To see just how big a 1/160 Landwasser model would look, take a look at this Italian site where the modeller built one using a novel approach to getting the details right:

[url]http://stefano.dalli.it/model/landwasser/[/url] ([url]http://stefano.dalli.it/model/landwasser/[/url])


Thanks for citation.
Stefano


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6553-260118141827.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=61101)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 26, 2018, 02:29:10 pm
Now that looks more like it. A loop around the back and a Nelevator and your away!

I've discovered that the red the RhB use is Pantone 485C which if it looks familiar is also Transport for London Corporate Red. While you can get it mixed specifically for painting London Buses I've found that VW Guards Red is really about right.

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 26, 2018, 04:56:21 pm

……
 To see just how big a 1/160 Landwasser model would look, take a look at this Italian site where the modeller built one using a novel approach to getting the details right:

Thanks for citation.
Stefano

You are most welcome Stefano, it's a great description of how you went about it, and the model is most impressive. :thumbsup:

Please post updates on your progress here on the Forum, as many will be interested to see how the viaduct and your other rail models develops.

Grazie e buona fortuna
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: stizzy on January 26, 2018, 05:22:18 pm

You are most welcome Stefano, it's a great description of how you went about it, and the model is most impressive. :thumbsup:

Please post updates on your progress here on the Forum, as many will be interested to see how the viaduct and your other rail models develops.

Grazie e buona fortuna

Thanx Daffy.
A first update you can find here:
http://stefano.dalli.it/landwasser-viaduct/ (http://stefano.dalli.it/landwasser-viaduct/)
And a second update here:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6553-260118171932.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=61104)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6553-260118172125.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=61105)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 26, 2018, 06:36:26 pm
Oh I do like that, so evocative. One day somebody will do a lineside Glacier Express trip for photographers and "sample" collectors alike.

I must admit too that I am becoming very wedded to the "Allegra" style front. It does have a sense of true style. I assume, which is a foolish thing to do, that the same frontal treatment is used on the current production 4 car units (Articulated??) and the new Driving Trailers. It makes sense to have the fronts the same as it cuts the spares holding for accidents. A very real consideration. London Transport ran out of the castings for the A60/62 stock long before the stock was retired. A complete 4 car set disappeared to make up the numbers.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on January 26, 2018, 11:02:02 pm
Ciao Stefano,
ben ritrovato

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 27, 2018, 08:22:38 am
Some nice angles and views on to the Brusio Spiral (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWHqWnqz2iw).

(that spiral viaduct needs to have a speaker installed on the layout for all the braking noises when a train drives down the spiral - I once thought that house close to the spiral would be a nice place to live - on a picture - in natura, not so much)  ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 27, 2018, 09:27:35 am
Thanks Steve - I was watching videos of the Gotthard route this morning and thought, do sound chips in n gauge locos include all that high pitched squealing the wagons make on curves? Hope not! :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 27, 2018, 10:04:35 am
I'm still platting a track plan.

Somewhere I think I've read that you can run a close coupled Glacier Express set round a 9" radius curve without replacing the long corridor connections with short ones. Now I do have two add-ons on" forward order" for June time delivery but if anybody has experience of this area I really would like to hear from you. The prime idea is to try and depict  the corridor connectors as close as possible. It's a shame that Kato have not imitated the Dapol Southern coaches with soft bellows and couplers that extend on curves.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: stizzy on January 27, 2018, 12:08:43 pm
Ciao Stefano,
ben ritrovato

Marco
Ohi Marco! Vai a Verona? Forse faccio un salto! Ciao
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 27, 2018, 06:34:59 pm
Anyone interested in sample photos of Kato's Ge 4/4 II? :no:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNzI55f_n2UlAoC9Hmxe3_lq5X9zU3C-AVccBowAD3qTyolgB1RHLbk3hrhJ2VhkQ?key=VFB0RzNlN2VFM3pseEZvN0R5Z1JaNnZMZmFRYjJR (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNzI55f_n2UlAoC9Hmxe3_lq5X9zU3C-AVccBowAD3qTyolgB1RHLbk3hrhJ2VhkQ?key=VFB0RzNlN2VFM3pseEZvN0R5Z1JaNnZMZmFRYjJR)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 27, 2018, 06:56:44 pm
Anyone interested in sample photos of Kato's Ge 4/4 II? :no:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNzI55f_n2UlAoC9Hmxe3_lq5X9zU3C-AVccBowAD3qTyolgB1RHLbk3hrhJ2VhkQ?key=VFB0RzNlN2VFM3pseEZvN0R5Z1JaNnZMZmFRYjJR (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNzI55f_n2UlAoC9Hmxe3_lq5X9zU3C-AVccBowAD3qTyolgB1RHLbk3hrhJ2VhkQ?key=VFB0RzNlN2VFM3pseEZvN0R5Z1JaNnZMZmFRYjJR)

I'll have one, or two, or three or more!  :greatpicturessign:  :thankyousign:

Mike Beard

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 27, 2018, 07:02:00 pm
A couple of pictures of 649 taken at Filisur Station in 2003.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-250118185108-61048474.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-250118185124-610492305.jpeg)

I really would like one of those. It even manages to look just a little bit grubby.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 27, 2018, 07:11:42 pm
A couple of pictures of 649 taken at Filisur Station in 2003.

I really would like one of those. It even manages to look just a little bit grubby.


2003 was the last year (of four 2000 - 2003) that 649 carried that version of the Holcim livery.

It currently carries the rather fetching blue/white Arge livery.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 27, 2018, 07:13:15 pm
I'm still platting a track plan.

Somewhere I think I've read that you can run a close coupled Glacier Express set round a 9" radius curve without replacing the long corridor connections with short ones. Now I do have two add-ons on" forward order" for June time delivery but if anybody has experience of this area I really would like to hear from you. The prime idea is to try and depict  the corridor connectors as close as possible. It's a shame that Kato have not imitated the Dapol Southern coaches with soft bellows and couplers that extend on curves.

Mike Beard.

Another thing I have done is to put a long on one coach facing a short on the other, which helps with tight curves


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 27, 2018, 07:26:57 pm
For a different loco, how about one of these?

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-250118175937.jpeg)


And here with a side view:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-250118185048-61047922.jpeg)

At that stage in their life, 2003, the original Ge4/4 series still had time to look forward to, as do a handful today. Again these pictures were taken at Filisur in 2003.

Mike Beard

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on January 27, 2018, 08:53:16 pm
Ciao Stefano,
ben ritrovato

Marco
Ohi Marco! Vai a Verona? Forse faccio un salto! Ciao

Ciao,
Si, dovrei andare il venerdì (montaggio) e sabato, casomai ci vediamo la’
A presto :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 27, 2018, 09:00:12 pm
Anyone interested in sample photos of Kato's Ge 4/4 II? :no:

Vielen Dank fuer den Link. Schaut gut aus die Kleine.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 28, 2018, 12:48:49 am
Somewhere I think I've read that you can run a close coupled Glacier Express set round a 9" radius curve without replacing the long corridor connections with short ones. The prime idea is to try and depict  the corridor connectors as close as possible.

Another thing I have done is to put a long on one coach facing a short on the other, which helps with tight curves


Late this evening I was able to remind myself of the situation, and the facts are as follows:

1) You cannot close couple two GEX coaches if they both have long gangways - it is physically impossible even on straight track
2) To get round this, my fully close coupled set has one long and one short gangway between each coach, which makes them almost meet in the middle so pretty good looking
3) this set goes round Kato Unitrack 183mm curves (9in = 228mm)
4) most Kato arrangements will negotiate 183 curves
5) even my Shapeways EWII goes round 183 curves

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 28, 2018, 01:21:04 am
Shouldn’t the roof on the Ge6/6 be silver?



Finally got round to it:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011326-6119262.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 28, 2018, 01:37:36 am
More work in progress. These items have all already run at exhibitions, but still need more detail work. The paper printed stuff stuck on with pritt stick looks far more realistic when viewed  in real life so close up pictures don’t do justice to the effect given when viewed from ‘normal viewing distance’ when running round the layout.

The photos were taken in haste on a new ‘photo booth diorama’ I am creating so the track was not terribly level.

Shapeways container well wagon:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011339-611951521.jpeg)

Oil tanker:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011332-61193431.jpeg)



Shapeways EWII. The ‘stick on’ lining needs redoing now as the coach has been on and off layouts and in an out of boxes.

The two coaches were not quite sitting correctly on the track as it turns out so the height difference between the Kato and Shapeways wasn’t the best it can be.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011316-61189290.jpeg)

Long bogie flat conversion:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011308-61187421.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 28, 2018, 01:41:44 am
For a different loco, how about one of these?

And here with a side view:-
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-250118185048-61047922.jpeg[/url])





Still going in 2017:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011115-61185185.jpeg)


along with 610

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011111-611841721.jpeg)

and 602

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011058-61173333.jpeg)

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 28, 2018, 01:02:25 pm
Sunday morning is the time for "fiddling" :D

So as Plaza Japan delivered yesterday the coupler conversion kit for the Glacier Express I thought I'd have a go. I have left my modelling glasses at the Railway Inn last time we set up the modules. I have the reading glasses I got from Boots and fairly awful they are too, >:( I have to strain my eyes to see. I managed change the couplings on the two coaches I currently have and I also took off the long gangway at one end and substituted the provided short one.

So I have two spare long gangways, which now live on the Bernina Line basic set! It seems for all the world like Kato have used the same moulding. I may have to secure them using a little Canopy Glue 580 which is what the model aircraft boys use for securing canopies to model aircraft. It's a PVA derivative and expensive but very good. I'll use it for sticking thousands of cheap Chinese figures under the panoramic glass of the more modern coaches. ;)

Perhaps Mr Kato might supply the long gangways as a "spare". I think the short ones are available. :confused2:

I'll know tomorrow if any of this works as I'm off to spend money on circles of Peco set track!  :thumbsdown:

Hooray!!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 28, 2018, 02:26:16 pm
I've been thinking about couplings in a broader sense and the RhB is mainly a passenger railway with freight. So the majority of the trains anybody runs will be of a fixed formation so it would be nice if, given the radii, the train sets were top and tailed by short gangways but between coaches a long and a short gangway seems to be the thing. The whole train should have the "prototype" coupler at the outer ends; that is the RhB style coupler that comes as a spare with the Allegra set. To achieve this it would mean being able to buy the long gangways, semi-permanent couplers and the RhB style coupler separately. Freight would be again semi-permanent couplers as most of it seems to pass through but any shunting could be achieved by judicious use of MicroTrains N or Z scale knuckles.

Just a few Sunday thoughts,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 28, 2018, 08:08:17 pm
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-280118011344-6119733.jpeg[/url])


Gordon, you suggested shapeways many times now every time someone brings up a model Kato should do next. This is a great example why I do not like and do not suggest shapeways.

I am not criticizing your modelling skills but it clearly shows the flaws of shapeways. I just don't like the surface of this stuff, it is too rough, for me it is a good representation of a concrete wall but far away from steel or any other metal.

steve   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2018, 12:02:39 am

Gordon, you suggested shapeways many times now every time someone brings up a model Kato should do next. This is a great example why I do not like and do not suggest shapeways.   

Maybe so, and I agree the tanktainer is the roughest of the items available on shapeways, but nevertheless I have a full RhB freight train in N scale. However I will stop suggesting it if people aren't interested.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 29, 2018, 12:23:19 am
but nevertheless I have a full RhB freight train in N scale

Good on you and as I said I would and will never criticize that   :thumbsup:       

Quote
However I will stop suggesting it if people aren't interested.

No don't. Not all are as picky as I am   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2018, 12:55:44 am

More work in progress. Again, close up photos of the paper prints stuck on with glue stick looks far more realistic when viewed from ‘normal viewing distance’ when running round the layout, but I thought people would appreciate the close view so that they can see what’s what.


Shapeways EWI shorty:

Like the other Shapeways coaches this needs lowering now that the Kato EWI are available. With very careful cutting of the brittle 3D I can open out the bottom of the coach ends Kato style.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118003848-61270770.jpeg)


Centre entrance coach as currently used in Pontresina - Scuol sets.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118003846-61269320.jpeg)


Shapeways EWI rendered surplus by the Kato product, repainted as MGB EW

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118003843-612681599.jpeg)


Shapeways Ge4/4I - with alternative ‘draft’ efforts at paper sides (more work needed):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118003838-612661361.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118003836-61265353.jpeg)


Kato 644 turned int new large logo style (by luck a reasonably good colour match between the paper print and the Kato body happened…)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118003834-61241900.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2018, 01:06:03 am
.

Digressing from the RhB:

Nascent MOB GDe4/4:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118003850-612711673.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2018, 01:13:46 am

Ge4/4III in RTR livery with the three Shapeways well wagons


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118010856-61272519.jpeg)

My working Croc with an effort at a kit bash to produce an Haik van. The MDS version will send this one to the scrap heap (pity I demolished a standard gauge N gauge van to make it!)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-290118010859-61273264.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 29, 2018, 02:27:16 am
It has to be said that Shapeways do not produce the best results from 3D printing and it's generally recognised that a lot of cleaning up is needed on their products. Just how much cleaning is done is up to the individual. If you look at what Osborns Models are producing on their websites they seem to have newer machines that use thinner layers than Shapeways so produce a better product."I materialize" are thought to be about the best but the most expensive too. 3D products will get better year by year but you need suppliers who keep at the cutting edge. I have to admit that faced with that tanker barrel I might have started rolling plastic card. 3D printing needs a whole new set of skills and methodologies to get the best from it.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 29, 2018, 07:58:04 am
Why not use decal paper you can print onto, rather than sticking paper onto the model sides?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 29, 2018, 08:34:15 am
It has to be said that Shapeways do not produce the best results from 3D printing and it's generally recognised that a lot of cleaning up is needed on their products.

High Definition Acrylate (https://www.shapeways.com/materials/high-definition-acrylate) from shapeways is a much better product than their Frosted offerings. Close to the I materialize products. No need to get rid of all the wax before painting. Way less surface irritations. Smoother product. But the designer has to change the CAD drawing and somehow not many are willing to do so.

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 29, 2018, 08:52:57 am
Decal paper would indeed give you a better finish Gordon.

For the well-wagons I think some weathering effects would mask the roughness of the Shapeways prints.

I agree that 3D printing still has some way to go, at least before I would buy anything larger than small items like trackside boxes, wheelie bins etc. However, the models you have produced have a lot of merit, and as you seem to suggest, as manufacturers like MDS release top quality freight wagons, you would no longer have a need to create your own to fill the vacuum that exists for RhB freight.

Wouldn't it be nice if Kato realised that many RhB fans like freight as well as passenger coaches, and produced a full set of mixed wagons, as they do for Japanese and US rail fans. But then the market for RhB in N is a lot smaller, so economic forces will be at play.

So for now, kit-bashing, 3D prints, and a lot of fun is a grand way to go for those who have the desire to get the 'full' RhB effect.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 29, 2018, 09:09:39 am
Wouldn't it be nice if Kato realised that many RhB fans like freight as well as passenger coaches, and produced a full set of mixed wagons, as they do for Japanese and US rail fans. But then the market for RhB in N is a lot smaller, so economic forces will be at play.

I don't think we have to wait all too long anymore for an announcement. I have the feeling that *NOCH is pushing for exactly that. Even if they may not sell well on Kato's domestic market, there is a lot of demand for freight cars from Europe.

steve

* we can only hope they will be available in Japan as well or my wallet won't be happy.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 29, 2018, 09:42:12 am
Let's give them a chance! I'm really impressed with the pace at which they've reacted to the market interest. We've gone from a single tourist trinket to a cohesive range in a couple of years. Farish and Dapol have got single items they announced before the original GE set, which still haven't seen the light of day!

HDA looks to have potential, but not the silver bullet it perhaps could have been - warping is quite common, and as you say you need to design a "blind" face to deal with the sprue attachment. Cleaning support wax is arguably easier.

I've got some FUD wagons and I think they're more than adequate after a bit of priming and sanding. No where near the level of stepping of the tank up there, which actually isn't really stepping, it's just a barrel that's not circular in cross-section so much as a icosagon. Not really a fault of the material.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 29, 2018, 10:41:38 am
I've got some FUD wagons and I think they're more than adequate after a bit of priming and sanding.


How many of these FUD  ;) wagons do you have njee :hmmm:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/5634-290118104006.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=61287)

Sorry, but every time I read "FUD' the little hunter's image pops into my head. D
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2018, 11:05:55 am
It has to be said that Shapeways do not produce the best results from 3D printing and it's generally recognised that a lot of cleaning up is needed on their products.

High Definition Acrylate (https://www.shapeways.com/materials/high-definition-acrylate) from shapeways is a much better product than their Frosted offerings. Close to the I materialize products. No need to get rid of all the wax before painting. Way less surface irritations. Smoother product. But the designer has to change the CAD drawing and somehow not many are willing to do so.

steve 

Some of the RhB stuff is offered in Frosted Extreme detail, but it is between £8 and £15 more expensive.

 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2018, 11:30:00 am
To achieve this it would mean being able to buy the long gangways separately.


They do, but as with all the Kato stuff, demand has outstripped supply.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10202713/20/1 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10202713/20/1)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2018, 11:36:50 am
We've gone from a single tourist trinket to a cohesive range in a couple of years.

It's actually somewhat more than a couple of years. Incredibly it is no less than five years since the original Glacier Express set was issued.

With most items 'sold out' on the Japanese websites, Kato must know the strength of the market. And if they have been to the RhB or seen pictures and film, they must be aware of the freight element. Even Glacier Express sets can have a van or two tagged on at the back.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: red_death on January 29, 2018, 11:40:35 am
3D printing quality depends on 3 main factors:
- printer and its resolution
- material used (sorry but sintered nylon - SLS/SLA or White Strong and Flexible - is not suitable for surface finish for modelling)
- designer - the tank tainer that Gordon posted is let down by poor design (not enough faces used to create the barrel)

Of the Commercial printers for N gauge I've yet to see any company that gets near to Shapeways in terms of quality - the problem with Shapeways is that quality can be really variable (some down to the designer but also down to Shapeways) and you must be prepared to ask for a reprint if the model is poor.  I.materialise has some nice materials which are hamstrung for N gauge by thicker minimum wall thicknesses and larger smallest detail requirements than FUD/FXD/HDA from Shapeways.

Some home printers can actually produce better results IMHO than Shapeways but it requires a lot of time to understand how to get the best out of each printer (and to print the model). Printers like the B9creator or Formlabs are excellent and some of the newer PLA printers are becoming very good.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 29, 2018, 12:03:01 pm
We've gone from a single tourist trinket to a cohesive range in a couple of years.

It's actually somewhat more than a couple of years. Incredibly it is no less than five years since the original Glacier Express set was issued.

Point still stands, I wasn't counting, hence a non-specific time period. It's been "not very long" in product development terms.

Some of the RhB stuff is offered in Frosted Extreme detail, but it is between £8 and £15 more expensive.

IMO FXD isn't worth it over FUD, but as Mike says WSF is not good enough if you want any sort of surface detail (you can obliterate it with filler-primer to get a decent finish if you're not fussed). Given the price adjustments last year and FUD being a comparable price to WSF now there's less reason to use it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 29, 2018, 12:18:20 pm
Of the Commercial printers for N gauge I've yet to see any company that gets near to Shapeways in terms of quality.

There was a guy in New Zealand, he sold 3D printed long hoods for American N scale models already 12 years ago with a higher resolution and smoother surface than everything I have ever seen coming from shapeways, in Frosted ultra or extreme. HDA comes close to the quality he offered.

steve

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: red_death on January 29, 2018, 12:21:25 pm
There was a guy in New Zealand, he sold 3D printed long hoods for American N scale models already 12 years ago with a higher resolution and smoother surface than everything I have ever seen coming from shapeways, in Frosted ultra or extreme. HDA comes close to the quality he offered.

3D printing has been around for some time, but getting it done commercially at an affordable cost is relatively new. As I said some home printers can do better than Shapeways but not without a time cost.

HDA is very hit and miss from what I've seen. FUD is more consistent.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 29, 2018, 01:08:04 pm
I think Kato are stroking the market beautifully. It does seem as though their plans run to producing a lesser number than they think they will sell in a month or two. A second run of the Ge4/4II so close to the first must be unheard of. It reminds me of the fact that the most beautiful Christmas sight is an empty toy warehouse. That is what Mr Kato is looking for. He certainly is not like Hornby with their N gauge where they sell at too high a price for the quality and end up with a financing bill which prompts a dumping of stock on the wholesale market at silly prices. THe cost of an EMD sw1 dropped from $125 to $36. I don't see Kato doing that somehow. If you look at the selling price figures it looks as though the RhB stuff is around 10% more expensive than the equivalent for the domestic Japanese market. Mr kato is not making a loss and as long as the stuff flies off the shelves, and it does, he will service the market. Put yourself in his position and what would you do?

We know that we have arrived when the N Gauge Society New Products Officer drops in. Can we have some nice rolling stock kits please? They'll get sold out before you cut the moulds. Or even a ready to run Crocodile under the Revolution Trains brand? You know you'll make money!

How I wish Old Man Chivers was still cutting moulding dies!

Happy Modelling

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 29, 2018, 01:23:38 pm
I have literally no idea what 90% of your post means Mike!  :dunce:

Manufacturers are always looking to make items that sell, and to sell them at the highest price that the market will bear. That's basic economics. Kato are in no way immune from discounting, Hornby have only done one branded N gauge model AFAIK, and it wasn't an EMD SW1, but Kato Eurostars have been available significantly below list price recently after they possibly flooded the market in response to the high second hand value of the add-on sets.

I've no doubt that this is still hugely niche compared to much of Kato's range, JR and US based, I'd be reluctant to make too many judgments on how popular anything is, it's all very anecdotal.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 29, 2018, 01:41:22 pm
Hornby own Arnold and that is their N Gauge arm. I have two of their EMD SW1's. One became a donor loco for the second one so I could get it to work properly. It even had non-compatible knuckle couplers whose draft box was totally different to the Microtrains ones making replacement a "delicate" operation.  I had to set the wheel back to back to NMRA standards. Got a good write-up in Model Railroader though. Atlas are far better. Incidentally the Kato product seems to have wheels to NMRA standards, they run on my Code 55 Atlas track fine

I have no knowledge of Eurostar as a model, it holds no interest for me. Sorry.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 29, 2018, 02:01:08 pm
But you seemed to imply that Kato's pricing of the RhB stock was to somehow avoid having to discount, like Hornby did with the Arnold SW1. You don't need to know anything about the Eurostar, was just using it as an example to show that Kato are not immune from an apparent overstocking.

I suspect the reason the RhB stuff appears to sell out quickly is more because Kato are doing very small runs to test what is still a very immature market, but are set up to quickly react with a subsequent run when/if stuff proves popular. Very shrewd I'd say, but something made far easier by their sheer size.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 29, 2018, 02:17:48 pm
I'm reminded of the 'just in time' method of stocking parts ready for assembly, first introduced by another Japanese firm, Toyota, I think, back in my late teens, early 20's.
Kato's business model,seems very sound to me, and they will, I'm sure, have a firm finger on the pulse.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 29, 2018, 02:31:54 pm
I think your misreading what I said probably because I didn't put it over very well. My thoughts may also be confused by the shear breadth of pricing available for the same item, before you add in import costs, or not as the case may be.

"Minefield, I'm in a Minefield!"

There does seem to be more of the Albula 100 about than other items but I suspect eBay can give you a false impression of the truth. Certainly odd things occur. Instance it's cheaper to buy the "644" Glacier Starter set and the spare body for 651 rather than the 651 Glacier Starter set itself.

Moving on quickly how about a "Crowd Funded" Crocodile? Revolution Trains are good at that and they know we are here.

Mike Beard.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 29, 2018, 05:59:46 pm
back in my late teens, early 20's

How old are you Mike ?   ;)  (Or did I misunderstand something)  :doh:

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2018, 06:01:09 pm

There does seem to be more of the Albula 100 about than other items but I suspect eBay can give you a false impression of the truth.

Albula 100 loco on the way from Japan, price was equivalent of £51. Final cost to me will depend on whether it reaches me without ending up at a Parcel Force depot first...
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 29, 2018, 06:04:10 pm
Certainly odd things occur. Instance it's cheaper to buy the "644" Glacier Starter set and the spare body for 651 rather than the 651 Glacier Starter set itself.

One does include a track oval and a power pack.

Quote
Moving on quickly how about a "Crowd Funded" Crocodile?

If there is any truth in rumors, no need for crowd funding   :claphappy:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 29, 2018, 06:49:55 pm
back in my late teens, early 20's

How old are you Mike ?   ;)  (Or did I misunderstand something)  :doh:

steve

Rephrase: "back when I was somewhere between 18 and 22. That is, late 1960's, early 1970's". :)

So, I'm 65, not about 115! :o Though sometimes it feels like it. :D
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 29, 2018, 06:55:17 pm
The 651 I was looking at was just a loco and two coaches from Plaza Japan. The 10-1145 was the current cheapest and the 651 body came from Plaza Japan. Anyway somebody has fouled up that argument by buying the 651 set so the only way left to have a 651 GE Starter Set is to buy a spare 651 body from PJ and the cheapest 10-1145 you can find, unless you want track etc. :confused1:

"Minefield, I'm in a minefield!!"

A 1:150th Crocodile? Not in my lifetime.  But then I'd want open balcony coaches and stuff to go with it. Better one of the universal short bogie vans that Gordon makes. :) I'm positivey ancient BTW, give Daffy a few years.

I've bought a book I can recommend. It's "RhB - Gebirsbahn in Graubunden". It's a picture book. About 25% colour and the rest is black and white it seems to be a record of the RhB in the early 1980's when I should have been swarming all over it every time I went Switzerland on business. It shows the train in the setting and is highly valuable for modellers in my opinion. :goggleeyes:

Happy Times,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 29, 2018, 07:07:43 pm
There are still some 10-006 GE Starter sets out there here in the U.K., and you can always sell the track, controller etc you don't want on eBay.

For example

http://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-10-006-N-Gauge-GLACIER-EXPRESS-STARTER-TRAIN-SET-&id=12351&manufacturer='KATO%20N%20Gauge' (http://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-10-006-N-Gauge-GLACIER-EXPRESS-STARTER-TRAIN-SET-&id=12351&manufacturer='KATO%20N%20Gauge')
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 29, 2018, 07:32:02 pm
Or @ Hobbysearch (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10236915) and be patience till they have their next sell out, last time the price was down to £76 !

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 29, 2018, 07:34:30 pm
Aragh!

Sorry Mike but having looked at the final price of the folks you quote I'll go for the 10-1145 and the spare body from Plaza Japan. I end up with a spare body to redecorate as I wish.

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 29, 2018, 07:38:27 pm
"Minefield, I'm in a minefield!!"

Yes, you are  ;) The only "original" 651 GE Starter Set is the one from Kato with track and controller (and still available). What ever Plaza Japan is or was selling is something they put together them self, I saw it on ebay and was wondering about the price myself then I started "digging"   :D

steve       
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on January 29, 2018, 08:21:56 pm
Or @ Hobbysearch ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10236915[/url]) and be patience till they have their next sell out, last time the price was down to £76 !

steve


If they have a sale of course. ;) They currently list at £98.60, approx. Add on shipping and possible tax and Parcel Force fees in the U.K. and you're soon close to TS'n'T's price. And the latter will deliver for a nominal charge(£2.95 I think.) within about three days.

Okay, it's a bit dearer, but it supports UK suppliers and there  is no uncertainty or stress. For me that's important.

No minefields in the Daffy household.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 29, 2018, 10:51:15 pm
Hi Folks,

I've started putting together the rather nice Faller model of the Val Tuoi viaduct. I'd rather like to make it taller at the main bridge level. Do Faller, or anybody else, make viaduct pillars that are suitable or if not does anybody make a random stone sheet similar to the Faller treatment of the viaduct?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 30, 2018, 12:12:14 am
Do Faller, or anybody else, make viaduct pillars that are suitable or if not does anybody make a random stone sheet similar to the Faller treatment of the viaduct?

Yes, they make taller pillars - but they are in the Landwasser viaduct kit  ;)

The problem with viaduct piers is that they taper so extending a pier from a kit isn't easy.  Innumerable viaduct parts have been made in N gauge over the years so there must be loads out there. Try doing some online searching with keywords such as 'N gauge viaduct piers'.

In the meantime, Faller do indeed do stone sheet, eg:
https://www.howardscenicsupplies.co.uk/faller-222565-decor-sheet-granite-n/ (https://www.howardscenicsupplies.co.uk/faller-222565-decor-sheet-granite-n/)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 30, 2018, 09:43:38 am
Thanks for that Gordon but unfortunately it's paper not plastic.

I guess I might have to buy a Landwasserviadukt after all, although I have found some Kibri ones they look as though they might be as expensive for two as Faller is for a complete kit. Either way you can bet they will want modifying

Hey Ho,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 30, 2018, 10:21:37 am
Scratchbuild it, you can get exactly what you want for far less money.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 30, 2018, 10:30:30 am
There are as part of the kit two pillars and it's easy enough to copy them. The real problem comes in matching the stonework. However, all is not lost. A second kit would provide parts for other bridges and arches along the way so that just might be the way to go.

So far the rumour mill has produced a model of 616, the Siemens Ge4/4II and a Croc. What else I wonder?

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 30, 2018, 11:41:09 am
So far the rumour mill has produced a model of 616, the Siemens Ge4/4II and a Croc.

Nah, the Siemens one I pulled out of my sleeve :laugh3:  but the Croc one seems legit  8)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 30, 2018, 12:46:08 pm
616 not being made!!! How CRUEL  >:( :'(
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 30, 2018, 05:25:58 pm
Scratchbuild it, you can get exactly what you want for far less money.

Or look for a much older viaduct kit. They turn up regularly in bits boxes at swap meets and on 2nd hand stalls at shows. I've got a box full acquired in this way.

Or ebay...:

eg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kibri-Kit-37673-NEW-N-Z-VIADUCT-CENTRAL-PILLAR/122736320335?epid=1762395551&hash=item1c93a79f4f:g:-nwAAOSwD5ZZ0k1E (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kibri-Kit-37673-NEW-N-Z-VIADUCT-CENTRAL-PILLAR/122736320335?epid=1762395551&hash=item1c93a79f4f:g:-nwAAOSwD5ZZ0k1E)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Kibri-37675-Viaduct-Piers-With-Icebreaker-Foundations-N-z-Kit/1260717867?iid=112586380970&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49925%26meid%3De29ebcdf7e11405eb9a49afbcf97c548%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122736320335%26itm%3D112586380970&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Kibri-37675-Viaduct-Piers-With-Icebreaker-Foundations-N-z-Kit/1260717867?iid=112586380970&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49925%26meid%3De29ebcdf7e11405eb9a49afbcf97c548%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122736320335%26itm%3D112586380970&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 30, 2018, 05:27:30 pm
Message received from MDS:

Ge4/4II "in 3 weeks"
Haik vans "in March"


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 30, 2018, 06:33:12 pm
It's in German but some good pictures of the MDS Models (http://www.bahnonline.ch/bo/31058/mds-modell-n-neuheiten-2018.htm). What I do not understand is why ALSO a Ge 4/4 II ?  ??? 

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 30, 2018, 06:41:07 pm
It's in German but some good pictures of the MDS Models ([url]http://www.bahnonline.ch/bo/31058/mds-modell-n-neuheiten-2018.htm[/url]). What I do not understand is why ALSO a Ge 4/4 II ?  ??? 

steve


Because they were making one when Kato announced theirs. I'd have used the chassis under a Ge4/4I rather than forge on with the II. However good luck to them for sticking to their plan.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 30, 2018, 06:54:08 pm
Because they were making one when Kato announced theirs.

And unfortunately with a plastic pantograph as well  :doh:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 30, 2018, 07:27:07 pm
I'd guess Sommerfeld will be gearing up.........

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 30, 2018, 07:38:31 pm
I'd guess Sommerfeld will be gearing up.........

For the price of what half a Ge 4/4 III costs in Japan, right ? No wait, we will need two pantographs per model, hmmm...   :-[

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 30, 2018, 08:42:06 pm
Mmm, that does let them down. Aren’t the Kato ones plastic?
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 30, 2018, 08:51:23 pm
Mmm, that does let them down. Aren’t the Kato ones plastic?

Yes they are. The only good thing I saw in the MDS release was the possibility to get the pantographs to replace the Kato ones, then I saw they are plastic also. Ah well... (a hole in the ground)

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 31, 2018, 12:56:11 am
I'd guess Sommerfeld will be gearing up.........

For the price of what half a Ge 4/4 III costs in Japan, right ? No wait, we will need two pantographs per model, hmmm...   :-[

steve

And for something not that realistic, if its the standard one they still keep on with despite it being old fashioned (especially the silly joined up bit at the pan ends (sides if you like).

.
Mmm, that does let them down. Aren’t the Kato ones plastic?

Yes they are. The only good thing I saw in the MDS release was the possibility to get the pantographs to replace the Kato ones, then I saw they are plastic also. Ah well... (a hole in the ground)

steve 

I think the MDS pantographs look less realistic than the Kato ones. As such I would be tempted to do the opposite and swap MDS for Kato! Unless the preliminary MDS photos don't show the final pantograph - could be


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 31, 2018, 01:16:21 am
What I do not understand is why ALSO a Ge 4/4 II ?  ??? 

Because they were making one when Kato announced theirs. I'd have used the chassis under a Ge4/4I rather than forge on with the II. However good luck to them for sticking to their plan.


1) I'm not sure they were already making it when Kato announced theirs, and

2) AFAIK you can't use a 4/4II chassis in a 4/4I as there are subtle differences in chassis dimensions.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 31, 2018, 03:31:21 am
Ge4/4I or Ge4/4II?

As they say in all the good TV shows:-

Previously

we have discussed the linear dimensions of Katos existing GE4/4III and agreed they are slightly out but unless you stand it on the non-existant 1:150th drawing we were measuring it from it really does not matter so perhaps the subtleties of chassis variation between the I and II are not that important. The bogie sides are different yes, but I'm sure the wheelbase and truck spacings are the same or near enough to make no difference.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 31, 2018, 03:50:19 am
but I'm sure the wheelbase and truck spacings are the same or near enough to make no difference

I'm picky, I wouldn't accept it...   :D

Ge 4/4 I trucks: 2500mm / 16,6mm. Overall length puffer to puffer: 12100mm / 80,6mm   

Ge 4/4 II trucks: 2300mm / 15,3mm. Overall length puffer to puffer: 12960mm / 86,4mm

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 31, 2018, 08:26:38 am
I believe Farish use Sommerfeldt pans on their 350s. I’ve got numerous spares doing nothing if there of interest to anyone for postage costs. They’re sprung and metal, and nothing like a Brecknell-Willis pantograph that the 350s should have!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 31, 2018, 08:52:44 am
I believe Farish use Sommerfeldt pans on their 350s.

Wait, what ? Kader is buying pans from Germany to put on their models in China ? I can not believe that.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 31, 2018, 09:21:05 am
I've seen it said in several places, I believe Dapol did on early 86s too, they're a terrible approximation of what they're trying to be though, as they look nothing like either a Stone-Faiveley or Brecknell-Willis.

(https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/371-700%5E_1033168_Qty1_6.jpg)

Regardless, I have a number (assuming I can find them I must have about 10), if anyone wants to try them on any of the Kato models.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 31, 2018, 09:55:12 am
Regardless, I have a number (assuming I can find them I must have about 10), if anyone wants to try them on any of the Kato models.

Would you send them to NZ ? Do you accept paypal ? Would need to change the Schleifer but other than that they look close.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on January 31, 2018, 09:58:30 am
Wait, what ? Kader is buying pans from Germany to put on their models in China ? I can not believe that.

Why not? Their Liliput locos use Sommerfeldt pantos, as do many other Chinese made models for the European market (Hornby Arnold, Minitrix ...) - although I am not sure they still source them "from Germany", maybe they are made in a factory closeby?

But I wouldn't count on Sommerfeldt to produce a panto for the RhB models soon. They needed 60 years to produce a prototypical DBS 54 diamond panto (which debuted on the new Minitrix 151) with two diagonal bars. :hmmm:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 31, 2018, 10:00:55 am
If Bachmann used Sommerfeld Pantos on their models they just might be available as spares.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on January 31, 2018, 10:12:10 am
If it's not these (http://www.blackwells-miniatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34_240&products_id=4328) they're incredibly close.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 31, 2018, 06:15:52 pm
If it's not these ([url]http://www.blackwells-miniatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34_240&products_id=4328[/url]) they're incredibly close.


yes, that is the bog standard original N gauge Sommerfeldt pantograph I was talking about earlier. Very long in the tooth. They really do not need to persist with pan heads that have 'continuous ends' to them in this day and age. They are the same as they were about 30 years ago but now cost 3 times as much. Commonly available as spares in most countries.

Here is the official range
https://www.sommerfeldt.de/de/?cat=c44_Spurweite-N-spurweite-n-44.html (https://www.sommerfeldt.de/de/?cat=c44_Spurweite-N-spurweite-n-44.html)

Personally I still prefer the look of the Kato ones, despite their fragility. I think Sommerfeldt metal ones will look overscale.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 31, 2018, 06:17:32 pm
but I'm sure the wheelbase and truck spacings are the same or near enough to make no difference

I'm picky, I wouldn't accept it...   :D

Ge 4/4 I trucks: 2500mm / 16,6mm. Overall length puffer to puffer: 12100mm / 80,6mm   

Ge 4/4 II trucks: 2300mm / 15,3mm. Overall length puffer to puffer: 12960mm / 86,4mm

steve

I'm afraid Steve is correct, Mike, there is a small but significant difference.  The chassis that fits in my Shapeways Ge4/4II will not fit in my Shapeways Ge4/4I
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on January 31, 2018, 06:22:28 pm
Perhaps next year then along with a Crocodile and a bogie passenger van and a container wagon with containers.

Wake Up Beard!!!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on January 31, 2018, 06:44:15 pm
I think Sommerfeldt metal ones will look overscale.

While they would look out of scale on a Ge 4/4 III I think they will look just right on a Ge 4/4 II (with a new, etched 'Schleifer'). The pantos on the Bobo 2 look huge compared to the Bobo 3. We will see, I will post pictures once I received my Bobo 2.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on January 31, 2018, 07:43:21 pm
I think Sommerfeldt metal ones will look overscale.

While they would look out of scale on a Ge 4/4 III I think they will look just right on a Ge 4/4 II (with a new, etched 'Schleifer'). The pantos on the Bobo 2 look huge compared to the Bobo 3. We will see, I will post pictures once I received my Bobo 2.

steve

agree, especially as the BoBoI single arm pantos are retrofitted

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 01, 2018, 12:23:13 pm
It is now February 1st. Elsewhere I'm selling of h0e, 009 and N gauge stock. I have a wish to sell my EM Gauge Midland Railway stuff as well.

I'm building a Faller viaduct kit. Don't ask the name, it's not the best that Faller ever produced but I'l make it work.

At the same time it's February 1st and this month we should be able to buy a Ge4/4II and next month RhB sliding wall bogie wagons.

Good Old February! and March too!

I wonder if Mr Kato will announce any follow-on models? I have the colour and typeface for 616 "Siemens" BTW!!

Happy Times,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 01, 2018, 03:26:40 pm

I wonder if Mr Kato will announce any follow-on models? I have the colour and typeface for 616 "Siemens" BTW!!


Or you could email MDS who have already put in place overall advertising colours on their Ge4/4II.

I suspect the problem with Siemens would be getting the rights.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 01, 2018, 03:55:30 pm

I've had a bit fun...



(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-010218155045.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/704-010218155140.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 01, 2018, 04:35:43 pm
That looks good to me. As you now must realise the typeface and colour are in the public domain. The same is not true of the ABB used on the railcar which is totally stand alone.

Thank you for that. All I need now is a dry transfer printer - and a second GE4/4II of course!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 01, 2018, 05:24:30 pm
Eh? You can google for any logo, including ABB, the resolution doesn't need to be particularly good for N after all.

That's different to a commercial run using the Siemens logo though, as obviously they'd have to approve it. No inherent reason they wouldn't, of course.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 01, 2018, 08:11:10 pm
the resolution doesn't need to be particularly good for N after all

I do not agree. Especially in N scale, the smaller the logos, numbers or letters are the higher resolution you need or it will just turn out blurry, fuzzy and unreadable. Experience I got over the years printing decals with Alps printers and just recently with a color laser.

Edit: Very obvious on the M in Siemens on Gordon's example. The higher the resolution the less stepping you'll get.

steve   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 01, 2018, 09:57:19 pm
Yes, I agree with that, but you don’t need the same resolution as in (for example) G.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 01, 2018, 10:08:25 pm
More Faller than Kato but how many clamps do you need to build a viaduct?


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-010218220341.jpeg)

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 01, 2018, 10:17:02 pm
Just to finish off February 1st in a proper way:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-010218221313.jpeg)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-010218221154.jpeg)


Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 01, 2018, 11:15:31 pm
 :heart2:  Woohoo, looking great ! Can't wait to get mine.

Are these pictures from the Spielwarenmesse ?

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 01, 2018, 11:57:51 pm
That looks good to me.

What it proves to me is that, to make a varied fleet, I will be able to keep my shapeways (AK Models) Ge4/4II in service and give it whatever overall advertising I feel like.

This will give me three different Ge4/4II to run at the ERA show in the autumn, as I have Kato 631 and MDS 628 on order, both plain red as that is what I actually prefer my Ge4/4II to be like, and it's a pity neither MDS nor Kato is doing a first batch numbered lok.

The benefit of being able to do a complete side in paper or dry transfer is that it covers the imperfections of a 3D kit (or resin as I have used the sam etechnique to creat a French Z7100 railcar).
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 02, 2018, 03:34:48 am
I'm not advertising but Plaza Japan have them on forward order for $90 posted. Of course I've bought one!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 02, 2018, 03:48:12 am
I'm not advertising but Plaza Japan have them on forward order for $90 posted. Of course I've bought one!

It pays to secure them when the reservation opens, $74 posted.

(They cost $174 from NOCH, not posted)  :o  :goggleeyes: :confused1: :worried: :'(

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on February 02, 2018, 10:07:11 am
Regarding the logos, it's always better to use vector graphics. If you don't have Corel Draw or Adobe Illustrator, you can at least import the vector EPS with your photo program at a much larger size and resolution. The Siemens "Petrol" colour is defined as 100% cyan and 40% yellow.
 
The Siemens and ABB logos can even be found directly from the company websites, so they are 100% correct. There are sites like "Brands of the World" where vector logos can be found but there you can't be sure if these were the real logos or some privately recreated effort (which can be very good or sometimes terrible).

Siemens vector logo:
http://w3.siemens.dk/home/dk/dk/cc/presse/logo/pages/default.aspx (http://w3.siemens.dk/home/dk/dk/cc/presse/logo/pages/default.aspx)

ABB vector logo:
http://www.abb.com/cawp/abbzh252/c1bb19530616406ec12569ed00338399.aspx (http://www.abb.com/cawp/abbzh252/c1bb19530616406ec12569ed00338399.aspx)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 02, 2018, 10:20:55 am
Regarding the logos, it's always better to use vector graphics.

Yup, I agree but I never learned how to use Corel or Illustrator, I am all Photoshop and I am good with pixels. I know it's more work with pixels than vector based but I have time   ;)

Thanks for the links.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: swisstrains on February 02, 2018, 11:55:03 am
More Faller than Kato but how many clamps do you need to build a viaduct?


([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/6079-010218220341.jpeg[/url])

Mike Beard.

When I built a similar viaduct I glued it together with liquid-poly. It was much cheaper that using clamps and you don't have to worry about disguising them when you put the viaduct on your layout.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 02, 2018, 01:31:06 pm
Oh Ho,Ho,Ho! :D

It's not the best of Faller kits. I used a couple of chunks of sprue to fill in the large arch bottom.

The clamps, modellers stock in trade. The glue - Revell Contacta liquid poly.

The question - is there a very similar stonework sheet? Can I buy the viaduct mouded top separately?

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: fitzgreyve on February 02, 2018, 01:55:39 pm

I've had a bit fun...


Regarding the logos, it's always better to use vector graphics. If you don't have Corel Draw or Adobe Illustrator, you can at least import the vector EPS with your photo program at a much larger size and resolution. The Siemens "Petrol" colour is defined as 100% cyan and 40% yellow.
 

I generally try and recreate all logos etc myself where possible using the original as a "guide" - see my HCD Ge4/4 III earlier in the thread.  I'm currently using (mostly) Microsoft Visio (Just because I have it, there are probably much better products).

Also, logos etc are may be trademarked to their owner but copyright of any "artwork", photograph etc.  generally rests with its creator (but that's a much bigger kettle of fish).
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 02, 2018, 02:51:31 pm
Looks to me as if nothing new is coming from Kato Nürnberg-wise.

The fair has been on for three days now and all that is showing is the Ge4/4II 631.

Interestingly, the other reference to 631 seems to have dissappeared off Kato's May 2018.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 02, 2018, 03:28:13 pm
Give Kato time. Is there an Asian show any time about now? :searchingsign:

I'll go with what I've got. Perhaps Noch could not put too much pressure on this year. Don't forget forward orders are being taken for top ups of the Glacier Express Add-Ons due in Japan in May. :beers:

More will come either in kit form or RTR, just give it time. Build a model railway, that whiles away the hours! :helpneededsign:

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 02, 2018, 05:15:32 pm
Looking here may just be helpful:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNFIzAWh21E&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNFIzAWh21E&feature=youtu.be)

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 02, 2018, 06:36:19 pm
The fair has been on for three days now and all that is showing is the Ge4/4II 631.


But the guy in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFZKDTjlmro) (talking Swiss German) is hinting that behind the curtains they are discussing about a new model for next year but it is too early to say more at this time.

Quote
Interestingly, the other reference to 631 seems to have dissappeared off Kato's May 2018.


Still there on Kato's website (http://www.katomodels.com/product/index_e.shtml).


And also AB Modell is ready (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFAUY7SgtQ) with their 1/160 Nm Ge 4/4 II and freight car plus some MOB news in 1/150.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 02, 2018, 06:49:25 pm
Don't take such a gloomy view of the future guys. It's very early days in the life of a new scale/gauge pairing and it will take time for models to become available.

One thing we should make thanks for and that is that MDS Modells have realised that the Kato semi-permanent coupling is a fact of life. It gives me hope that the van proves to be just as adaptable.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 02, 2018, 08:51:23 pm
Albula 100 loco on the way from Japan, price was equivalent of £51. Final cost to me will depend on whether it reaches me without ending up at a Parcel Force depot first...

...it didn't...

stung for £38, but it was a much larger package (a Filisur station and two Glacier Express platform sets) than the one which got to me unscathed

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 02, 2018, 09:08:11 pm
...it didn't...

stung for £38, but it was a much larger package (a Filisur station and two Glacier Express platform sets) than the one which got to me unscathed

So how much of the £38 was for the £51 Albula loki ?

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 02, 2018, 09:49:33 pm
Albula 100 loco on the way from Japan, price was equivalent of £51. Final cost to me will depend on whether it reaches me without ending up at a Parcel Force depot first...

...it didn't...

stung for £38, but it was a much larger package (a Filisur station and two Glacier Express platform sets) than the one which got to me unscathed


But ------ was the Customs Declaration in Japanese and the price quoted in Yen?

Mike Beard.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 03, 2018, 09:19:59 pm
Is there any structural difference between the Glacier Express standard passenger cars and the Buffet car? By that I mean that I do understand the body shell is different as is the interior but is the plastic chassis and bogies the same? It seems I can "aquire" plenty of coaches but I'll have to buy buffet car parts as spares. I just want to understand how practical it is to swap bodies.

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 05, 2018, 01:13:07 am

So how much of the £38 was for the £51 Albula loki ?

steve

Not enough to make it not worth buying from Japan. Still saved a good few quid overall.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 06, 2018, 04:07:40 am
Not enough to make it not worth buying from Japan. Still saved a good few quid overall.

Not why I was asking, I buy everything in Japan or USA, everything 'hobby' is well overpriced here in NZ.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 06, 2018, 04:09:43 am
Interestingly, the other reference to 631 seems to have dissappeared off Kato's May 2018.

As per 05 Feb it has disappeared from the Kato website as well, was probably just an error.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 06, 2018, 07:36:56 am
Some pics about Ge 4/4 II  Kato from Spielwarenmesse 

http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36092&mode=view (http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36092&mode=view)

http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36091&mode=view (http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36091&mode=view)

http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36090&mode=view (http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36090&mode=view) 

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 06, 2018, 07:54:44 am
Some pics about Ge 4/4 II  Kato from Spielwarenmesse 

[url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36092&mode=view[/url] ([url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36092&mode=view[/url])

[url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36091&mode=view[/url] ([url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36091&mode=view[/url])

[url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36090&mode=view[/url] ([url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36090&mode=view[/url]) 

Marco


Ciao Marco,

this is all I see:

Non sei autorizzato a visualizzare, scaricare o inserire collegamenti da/a questo sito.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 06, 2018, 08:43:36 am
Some pics about Ge 4/4 II  Kato from Spielwarenmesse 

[url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36092&mode=view[/url] ([url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36092&mode=view[/url])

[url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36091&mode=view[/url] ([url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?[/url]

id=36091&mode=view)




Oops,
One moment please

[url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36090&mode=view[/url] ([url]http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/download/file.php?id=36090&mode=view[/url]) 

Marco


Ciao Marco,

this is all I see:

Non sei autorizzato a visualizzare, scaricare o inserire collegamenti da/a questo sito.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 06, 2018, 08:45:48 am
Same problem here in U.K. Marco, but searched the Forum the photos come from and found this post, which I presume are the photos you posted links to:

http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=7785&start=15 (http://www.amiciscalan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=7785&start=15)

Text of post translates as "Here is the Ge 4/4 II seen in Nuremberg - not the definitive model, but almost ... Really nice. Attached "

Thanks. Mine is on order and expected release from Japan according to Keith at U.K. supplier Train Trax is end of February, with his stocks expected around 10th March. Price expected to be as the Albula 100 loco released last year.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 06, 2018, 08:47:43 am

Ok.
It is :thumbsup:

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 06, 2018, 04:14:38 pm
Ge4/4II?

I think it's a bit more than  :thumbsup:

I think we should  :beers: its health and be  :D and consider it to be  :jawdropping: in its execution.

In fact Mr Moderator - it deserves its own smiley because it makes me so  :smiley-laughing:!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 06, 2018, 09:09:17 pm
In another place Paul RhB has displayed a photograph of the underneath of both types of car, passenger and buffet, for which I thank him.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 07, 2018, 11:35:27 am
In another place Paul RhB has displayed a photograph of the underneath of both types of car, passenger and buffet, for which I thank him.

Mike Beard

The chassis are the same construction and fit, the only difference is the placement and number of equipment boxes on the underframe. It is to Kato's credit that they bothered to make this different when it is hardly visible in normal use.

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 07, 2018, 12:28:22 pm
Oh good. I've bought a spare buffet body shell and the last interior from Plaza Japan to come with the two Ge4/4II's. I've also ordered a spare body decorated for 651 to replace the one on a "gash" 644. It will be interesting to see just how much has to be transplanted from the 644 shell.

Cheers,

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 07, 2018, 09:45:57 pm
So, moving on. Today I had delivery of 4 Glacier Express coaches. The two I already had were previously converted to the Kato semi-permanent couplings so I converted these four this evening. This gave me a total of 6 long hoods left over so I've fitted them to the "Bernina Line" coaches, but making sure that each coach set had a short gangway at the ends. Now there is a slight problem with the Bernina Line coaches as the long gangways almost stay in place but not quite. Has anybody out there actually used any glue on the Kato coach bodies? I'm thinking about using Cockpit 580 glue which is what the airplane modelling community use for securing their cockpit transparencies in place, but before I commit I'd like to know if anybody else has any experience of gluing Kato bodies?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 08, 2018, 12:11:51 am
So, moving on. Today I had delivery of 4 Glacier Express coaches. The two I already had were previously converted to the Kato semi-permanent couplings so I converted these four this evening. This gave me a total of 6 long hoods left over so I've fitted them to the "Bernina Line" coaches, but making sure that each coach set had a short gangway at the ends. Now there is a slight problem with the Bernina Line coaches as the long gangways almost stay in place but not quite. Has anybody out there actually used any glue on the Kato coach bodies? I'm thinking about using Cockpit 580 glue which is what the airplane modelling community use for securing their cockpit transparencies in place, but before I commit I'd like to know if anybody else has any experience of gluing Kato bodies?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.

I sympathise with the loose gangway connectors, as I have taken gangways in and out of my coaches for ages now due to all my work on kitbashes, conversions etc

As such I have used various methods

1) a dab of superglue (I use the gel to avoid it running away)
2) a tiny bit of 'hard plastic' glue (squeeze it out the bottle in a big glob then use a pin point to take a minute amount into the area to be  stuck.

However, before gluing try my other method which is:

very gently ease the two clips on the gangways  'outwards' (ie up for the top one and downwards for the bottom one) . The plastic will take a small amount of this treatment without breaking, and the result is that the gangway stays in place.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 09, 2018, 10:12:33 am
Hi All,

Maurice at Osborn Models has put up a link to a new Swiss Railway Modelling magazine. Unfortunately it has little for N gauge let alone RhB in 1:150th.

http://www.modellbahn-schweiz.de/ (http://www.modellbahn-schweiz.de/)

Cheers,

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 09, 2018, 11:00:33 am
@Railwaygun (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=941) has a thread starter on this where I've added my comment.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40350.msg490571#msg490571 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40350.msg490571#msg490571)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 09, 2018, 08:34:26 pm
Oh good. I've bought a spare buffet body shell and the last interior from Plaza Japan to come with the two Ge4/4II's. I've also ordered a spare body decorated for 651 to replace the one on a "gash" 644. It will be interesting to see just how much has to be transplanted from the 644 shell.

Cheers,

Mike B

Mike, all you have to provide for the new body shell is the pantographs which are not included, everything else is included (or was on mine), body shell, glazing, interior, jumper cables and roof, just take the old body off the chassis block and put the new one on.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 09, 2018, 08:43:43 pm
Thank You Metroman 64, that is good news. Presumably you can lift off the pantographs from the original body to use on the replacement one fairly easily but how do you get the body off the chassis?

Its nice to know there is a fellow Kato enthusiast in the next, rain sodden, county!

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 09, 2018, 08:54:23 pm
Thank You Metroman 64, that is good news. Presumably you can lift off the pantographs from the original body to use on the replacement one fairly easily but how do you get the body off the chassis?

Its nice to know there is a fellow Kato enthusiast in the next, rain sodden, county!

Cheers,

Mike Beard.

Mike, just carefully open the bodyshell slightly at one end (a couple of pieces of card inserted will hold it open enough to pull the body up) and with your third hand!, gently pull the body up and it should unclip easily. When putting it back on, there is an arrow on the underside of the roof, just line it up with the same direction of the ones on the chassis block, you cannot miss them. The pantographs just unclip, use a small screwdriver to ease them off.
By the way, its dry down here at the moment but the forecast tomorrow is pants!!!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 09, 2018, 09:15:38 pm
Thank you for that. Everything concerning it is either just embarking on a trip from Japan or awaits the starters whistle blown on a Ge4/4II Whistle in Japan. The worst hurdle is the Langley Sorting Centre. Everything goes into hibernation there I'm sure, which is odd in these days of high speed communications but it's government so expect nothing. >:(

The weather here tomorrow is wet too, but we did have a few grains of snow the other day. I do miss my adopted Shropshire! We had REAL snow there. :unimpressed:

Cheers,

Mike B.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 09, 2018, 10:06:10 pm
You're welcome Mike. I have nine GE 4/4 IIIs at the moment. Numbers ten and eleven are on their way from Japan. One of them will be repainted into the Holcim livery, the other is the Albula liveried one. If you want to re-number the plain red ones, just contact AB Modell, they have I think numbers for four other red ones. Removing the numbers is easy, just use some Brasso polish wadding and careful rub the old number, they will come off, I recommend masking the surrounding paint to avoid removing bits you want to keep.
Nigel
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 09, 2018, 10:33:55 pm
Thank You Metroman 64, that is good news. Presumably you can lift off the pantographs from the original body to use on the replacement one fairly easily but how do you get the body off the chassis?

Mike, just carefully open the bodyshell slightly at one end

I agree, but I usually get the bodies off (with the chassis facing down) by putting a thumb each side of the centre of the body, and tip of each forefinger on the bottom edge of the bodysides.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 09, 2018, 10:57:46 pm
Removing the numbers is easy, just use some Brasso polish wadding and careful rub the old number, they will come off, I recommend masking the surrounding paint to avoid removing bits you want to keep.

Isn't that too abrasive ? I wouldn't use it on my models. I use a cotton buds with some 91% rubbing alcohol. That removes the printed stuff on Kato shells without damaging the paint job under it. The spot were the number was stays smooth and ready for the decal with the new number without any silvering.

Does AB-Modell also supply the Gemeindewappen (shield) to the numbers ?

To remove the shell, I use a foam crate (out of an old Seagate HD box), put the model on it upside down and use two wooden tooth picks to unlock the clips from the chassis (on the right side of each bogie where the side windows are, it's the windows glass which clips to the chassis) and when I turn it back up the chassis just slides out.

steve   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 09, 2018, 11:21:28 pm
Removing the numbers is easy, just use some Brasso polish wadding and careful rub the old number, they will come off, I recommend masking the surrounding paint to avoid removing bits you want to keep.

Isn't that too abrasive ? I wouldn't use it on my models. I use a cotton buds with some 91% rubbing alcohol. That removes the printed stuff on Kato shells without damaging the paint job under it. The spot were the number was stays smooth and ready for the decal with the new number without any silvering.

Does AB-Modell also supply the Gemeindewappen (shield) to the numbers ?

To remove the shell, I use a foam crate (out of an old Seagate HD box), put the model on it upside down and use two wooden tooth picks to unlock the clips from the chassis (on the right side of each bogie where the side windows are, it's the windows glass which clips to the chassis) and when I turn it back up the chassis just slides out.

steve   

The Brasso wadding is not too abrasive, just rub gently, after renumbering, I just give the body a coat of satin varnish and you cannot see any trace of using the Brasso. Never had any damage to the red paint. The decal number sets include the shields with the names. Ab Modell does 645, 646 & 652. Does not supply the advertising decals due to licensing restrictions from RhB and the relevent companies.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 10, 2018, 05:23:17 pm
I've just had a delivery from Langley via WsM Post Office. Card through my door, you know the drill. So on a Japanese £60 loco I paid £17.82 giving me a saving after postage of around £10 :) You can all laugh now.

What I don't understand is that todays delivery is for a single Albula 100 loco but I have bought more economically in Japan a 644 and two coaches for less. Am I looking back through history and seeing the prices that were set a couple of years ago and there is still a glut of that basic starter set or what? :confused1:

Any updates on Kato Ge4/4II availability yet, and has MDS - Modell appointed a UK distributor yet? The bank exchange costs will be huge unless they take PayPal. :worried:

As predicted it's done a great job of making everywhere and thing damp today. Snow PLEASE. :angel:

It has been agreed at the WsM N Gauge Group that I buy a Hi-Roof van so I can do justice to nice Alpine scenery, actually that's not a bad thought.............. :bounce:

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 10, 2018, 06:25:33 pm
£10 cheaper on a product costing less than £80 all in... why would anyone laugh that’s a good saving...
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 10, 2018, 06:35:03 pm
£10 cheaper on a product costing less than £80 all in... why would anyone laugh that’s a good saving...

I'm putting it towards the "Hi Roof Van"  :) ;) :D ;D :laugh: :bounce:

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 10, 2018, 07:29:49 pm
£10 cheaper on a product costing less than £80 all in... why would anyone laugh that’s a good saving...

I'm putting it towards the "Hi Roof Van"  :) ;) :D ;D :laugh: :bounce:

Mike B

Just bought my Albula GE 4/4 for £35.00 plus post. Interesting to see if I get stung. Are you keeping the spare body you will have after the other arrives as I am looking for a spare.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 10, 2018, 07:54:38 pm
The paperwork was in Japanese and Yen, but typed. Where did you get one for £35? (Message me or they will all want one!). :)

About the spare body. I won't know about it for a while as first it has to arrive and then come off intact, a bit of a feat I think. And then it has to donate some bits of itself. When I've done that I'll breath a sigh of relief and then worry about the body. :-\

On a different subject did you see the 651, buffet car and 2nd coach go through? I rather wanted the buffet car but got "itchy" so came second! But the price for coach, talk about Red Mist! :admiration:

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 11, 2018, 06:23:11 pm
Something different now. What is the distance between tracks at an RhB 3 track passing station?  :dunce:

Planning! :'(

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 11, 2018, 07:27:29 pm
Something different now. What is the distance between tracks at an RhB 3 track passing station?  :dunce:

Planning! :'(

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.

Not fixed AFAIK, and also depends on if you want old or modernised high platforms.

Absolutely hoping this does not sound churlish: may I humbly suggest there is some research you can undertake yourself.

Resources include:

1) RhB trackplan books published by Schweers & Wall (for the purpose of Bemo HOm originally)
2) the BEMO io (was Yahoo) group; for questions not strictly related to Kato N

and the simplest of all

3) email RhB. They will answer within a few days

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 13, 2018, 10:08:17 am
I've just had a Kato Basic Glacier Express set come through "unmolested".  :laugh3:  Unfortunately the seller seems to have sold all of them. :sorrysign:

I'm working on distance between tracks in stations. The book "Gebirgsbahn in Graubunden" is useful. ???

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 13, 2018, 10:30:00 am
I've just had a Kato Basic Glacier Express set come through "unmolested".  :laugh3:Unfortunately the seller seems to have sold all of them. :sorrysign:

I'm working on distance between tracks in stations. The book "Gebirgsbahn in Graubunden" is useful. ???

Mike Beard.

Also worth having the Eisenbahn Journal bookazines 'Die RhB' . Although dated now they are not as old as the book you mention.

eg:

https://www.amazon.de/Die-RhB-Eisenbahn-Journal-Special/dp/3896104705 (https://www.amazon.de/Die-RhB-Eisenbahn-Journal-Special/dp/3896104705)


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 13, 2018, 05:25:08 pm
So, I took a deep breath and asked our friends at the BEMO site what they thought and the general opinion was that 4,000mm between track centres full size was enough. So that works out to about 2,000mm between adjacent cars if they are both Glacier Express cars. I thought that was a a bit scant so after a lot of calculations and standing about counting my fingers etc I concluded that in 1/150th scale a dimension of 35mm is about right.  :confused1:

35mm just happens to be the difference in radius between a Peco #2 curve and a Peco #3 curve.  :o

Funny Old World - Watch this space as they say. :camera:

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 13, 2018, 06:40:41 pm
This is where the significant inaccuracy of the track gauge matters.

I wouldn’t overthink it, you’ll never reconcile to prototype figures as the track is wrong in the first place. Unless you work track dimensions out using a 1:111 scale (for which the n gauge track would be the right size), but then you’ll probably have problems with overhang etc on parallel running lines, particularly with sharp curves.

Do what looks right to you.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 13, 2018, 07:18:16 pm
I'm ignoring the track gauge and working off track centres, it's the only sane way to do it. After all the vehicles sit on the track on their centrelines, it's just the gauge that's different - very different!

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 13, 2018, 09:20:00 pm
But if you start looking at things like lineside structures (or platforms in stations) that's going to leave you insufficient space between running lines, because you've got extra track in the way.

Quite honestly the Peco spacing is quite reasonable (not the set track spacing), but as I say, you may need to ease it out on very sharp curves. You'd have to try with your longest vehicles.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 13, 2018, 09:29:15 pm
In my experience carriages tend to be wider than the track gauge. Therefore all you do is allow for the standard structure gauge but work off centre lines. That way the gauge becomes unimportant and generally the cross section of a vehicle will also cover the sleepers, except on crossings.

I hope this helps.

I have a ruck of both Peco and Kato track coming for various experiments in haulage capacity, and track spacings and I must make sure I order some replacement traction tyres!

Cheers,

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 13, 2018, 09:38:54 pm
FWIW 35mm centres sounds wide to me on plain line. IIRC the Streamline spacing is 26mm.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 13, 2018, 09:40:01 pm
If you are modelling the current era, then the Kato Glacier Express platforms give a good idea of the space between tracks if an up to date high platform is used.

In all other respects I agree with njee20, there is little point in overthinking or being too exact, IMO no-one will really notice the difference, because in N scale , it is the overall impression that outweighs most other things.

Worth having a look here:
http://www.sumidacrossing.org/ModelTrains/LowLevelPlatforms/ (http://www.sumidacrossing.org/ModelTrains/LowLevelPlatforms/)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 15, 2018, 12:36:52 pm
Any updates on Kato Ge4/4II availability yet

Kato just updated their Product Schedule page, delivery date for the Ge 4/4 II is the 22 of February !

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 15, 2018, 01:22:39 pm
And, of course, being Kato you believe them. So do Plaza Japan as they form part of a greater order than the two I've booked, and paid for!

Any news of the Glacier Express Add-On's supposedly available in May?

Thanks,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 15, 2018, 01:47:51 pm
You could check Kato's Production Schedule pages (http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule_e.shtml), and no, still May.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 15, 2018, 02:29:46 pm
Thank you for that link njee20.

Interestingly it seems that a second run of the Ge4/4II  that was rumoured for May does not appear nor is there a re-run of the Ge4/4III in any livery or anything else for that matter so if you see one and want one buy it because you might not see another one this half year. When do Kato release their second half year schedule, any ideas?

Can't speak for MDS-Modell but they should be now!!.

Keeping on Coffin Dodging,

Mike B

PS  We need a passenger brake van BTW
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on February 15, 2018, 04:12:29 pm
I've never seen that page before (just Googled for it), so I'm not 100% sure, but I imagine it'll be a 'live' document, where they'll update ETAs on stuff as they have an exact date, and will add and (quietly) remove things as necessary. I don't imagine they do a "H2 update" and do it all in one go.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 15, 2018, 07:24:36 pm
Interestingly it seems that a second run of the Ge4/4II  that was rumoured for May does not appear nor is there a re-run of the Ge4/4III in any livery or anything else for that matter so if you see one and want one buy it because you might not see another one this half year. When do Kato release their second half year schedule, any ideas?

In the upper left corner of the Production Schedule page is a link New Models / Model Information. On this page the Ge 4/4 II was listed till they added June to the list.

Kato doesn't do half year schedules, they release monthly news.

Quote
PS  We need a passenger brake van BTW

I second that.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 15, 2018, 08:07:18 pm
Well, time as they say, will tell. Same with the passenger brake. :drool:

Cheers,

Mike B.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 16, 2018, 01:57:36 am
Well, time as they say, will tell. Same with the passenger brake.


At the risk of being repetitive (see December 2017)...

You can have one right now:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/XJY2RHMWN/baggage-car-type-ds-1-w-bogie?optionId=61517633 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/XJY2RHMWN/baggage-car-type-ds-1-w-bogie?optionId=61517633)

Mine in service:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/704-221217000921-595871841.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 16, 2018, 02:07:20 am
Ha ha ha, I knew it   :laugh3:  I knew that shapeways thing will pop up, again   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 17, 2018, 05:13:15 pm
The Kato 150mm radius curves arrived today from Train Trax so I've added another loop to my test track and I've tried out various locos on it, so far "boxes on wheels" type. I've had to file a slight V at every Kato rail joint to remove the cutting residue that in one case a loco bounced off! Peco Set Track is better. Having run a Kato Ge4/4III and an Atlas GP40 around  the loop trouble free I added two Glacier Express cars to the Ge loco. Everything is fitted with the Kato semi-permanent couplings and I have left one long gangway on each coach so it is opposite a short gangway. They went round the curves but there was very little distance between the inner corners of the coaches! Less than a millimetre I'd say. After that I added a Bernina pair which have had one long gangway added and they were fine and then I added a pair of EW1 coaches which had not been modified in any way and again no problems. When the long gangways arrive from Japan I'll modify the EW1's.

The next question is how compatible are GF pantographs with Kato RhB locos and are they available as a spare and are they any more substantial than Kato's??

Cheers,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 19, 2018, 12:00:51 pm
As part of sorting out the trackwork at the left end of the layout I've been messing about with Peco Set track curved points and #2 and #3 curves, and a gash straight. You can see the ideas below. The GE coaches, even with short couplings, don't look seriously silly and I get my 3 track station at 35mm centres!


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-190218114600-620241177.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-190218114605-620561474.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-190218114606-620572040.jpeg)

and all this means that I can get the layout onto a 24" wide board, but about 144" long!

Mike B.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 23, 2018, 03:07:23 am
Just got the paypal invoice from Hobbysearch, my Ge 4/4 IIs will soon be on the way to NZ, can't wait  :D

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 23, 2018, 04:05:12 am
I've had an advice note that Plaza Japan has posted my order which includes two Ge4/4!!'s.

The Race Is On!
:goggleeyes:

Mike B.

 :claphappy:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 23, 2018, 07:32:28 am
I've had an advice note that Plaza Japan has posted my order which includes two Ge4/4!!'s.

The Race Is On!
:goggleeyes:

Mike B.

 :claphappy:

No competition, mine are sent with SAL (slow and lethargic)   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 23, 2018, 08:41:36 am
Nice to know they have been released from the starting gate. First to post a pic of their Ge4/4 II (s) on their own layout/rails wins a coconut - and the duty to provide a 1st review of course. :)

It could be a close race, with the UK entrant facing the possible handicap of the ParcelForce hurdle.

Good luck, and beware of outsiders creeping by on the rails.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 23, 2018, 09:29:43 am
It's unfortunate that Plaza Japan have not (yet?) provided a tracking number. If they do then I'll be able to provide a "Running" commentary but otherwise I'll be just as suprised as you when they arrive. The ommission of a tracking number is odd as orders of far less value from others in Japan have had a tracking number even if they didn't work!

More news as it arrives!!

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 23, 2018, 10:59:18 am
If it's any help I have personally just seen some new Kato Ge4/4II locos (well I think they were) on sale here in Tokyo in the "new releases section" of a store I passed through.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 23, 2018, 11:16:19 am
I wonder does Mr Kato have a particular date at which he announces things or do peoole just become aware of what is happening when he publishes his Six Month Production Schedule and when could look forward to the second half of the 2018 Schedule appearing?

Railsquid - you've just told me how much I could save by having a "friend" in Tokyo!! Want to do a swap for a Dapol class 68?

Happy Times,

Mike Beard. 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on February 23, 2018, 11:39:25 am
Plaza japan have. A spares list on their new release page

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 23, 2018, 12:00:15 pm
Plaza japan have. A spares list on their new release page

Where on their website ?  https://www.plazajapan.com/ (https://www.plazajapan.com/)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 23, 2018, 12:27:16 pm
A slip of the brain on Railwayguns behalf. At least we know that Hobbysearch are sold out and have 27 people wanting. A lot of the spares have "Reservations Closed" against them. :(

Remember what we talked about last night? How embarrassing would that have been if I had published what I thought were the facts? :claphappy:

Hey Ho, there we all go.  :laugh2:

Mike Beard.

BTW    I DO enjoy watching my Glacier Express whip round 150mm radius curves. Knocks the "scale" out of me! :) Especially with its elastic "Scale/Gauge Ratio"!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 23, 2018, 12:39:05 pm
I wonder does Mr Kato have a particular date at which he announces things or do peoole just become aware of what is happening when he publishes his Six Month Production Schedule and when could look forward to the second half of the 2018 Schedule appearing?

I'm not terribly clued-up on the details, but I get the impression there's a monthly release cycle, and releases (as opposed to product announcements) are announced 3~4 months in advance.

Railsquid - you've just told me how much I could save by having a "friend" in Tokyo!! Want to do a swap for a Dapol class 68?

Offers of friendship inspired by my location are not seldom, unfortunately if I were to go down that route there'd be no end to it, and my sparse free time is very valuable to me. Unless you can promise to look after the Squidlet on a regular basis. Or have any of those old Farish 4-wheel coaches in "GWR" livery, then we could talk.  :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 23, 2018, 01:33:18 pm
Railsquid

It's like this. Our 21 month old grandson is singing in his highchair in the kitchen. We have him every Thursday and Friday. At 71 I feel I've done enough for humanity but apparently I'm wrong! :D

GWR 4 wheeled coaches? I'll see what I can do! Compared with our Beardlet that's easy! :laugh3:

Happy Times,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: railsquid on February 23, 2018, 01:56:30 pm
Wow, I totally envy Beardlet's parents, believe me the Squidlet comes from another dimension altogether, after two hours both sets of grandparents are begging for mercy. Anyway tomorrow is Saturday, which probably means I'm on Squidlet duty to give Mrs. Squid a break, fortunately the Squidlet is a big fan of trains (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34527.msg401351) so it's just a case of seeing what the weather's like and which far-flung part of the Tokyo region I can take him to.

Err, anyway, to keep things on topic, Swiss train thingy:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4676/25567445497_9c018d5eb9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EXiQMP)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 23, 2018, 02:46:15 pm
Here we have a photograph of the Kato Ge4/4II No 631

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-230218143900.jpeg)

Acknowledged from the Hobbysearch site, who have the best photos!

VERY nice it looks too. Oddly these and the Ge6/6II seem to be the preferred choice for the Glacier Express at the moment. The Ge4/4III don't seem to get a look in.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 23, 2018, 05:22:13 pm
I've had an advice note that Plaza Japan has posted my order which includes two Ge4/4!!'s.

The Race Is On!
:goggleeyes:

Mike B.

 :claphappy:



Mine too!

Now looks like it may beat the MDS one as well



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on February 23, 2018, 11:55:48 pm
Plaza japan have. A spares list on their new release page

Where on their website ?  https://www.plazajapan.com/ (https://www.plazajapan.com/)

steve

They are on the bottom of the page quoted, but Even the spares are on reserve order!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 24, 2018, 12:20:23 am
Plaza japan have. A spares list on their new release page

Where on their website ?  https://www.plazajapan.com/ (https://www.plazajapan.com/)

steve

They are on the bottom of the page quoted, but Even the spares are on reserve order!

Yeah, I am not familiar with the plazajapan website, can't seem to find anything model train related.

The good thing with the HobbySearch (1999.co.jp) website, they list the spare parts (ASSY) approximately one week after a new model is listed. Pays out to visit the site at least once a week. Also recommended is to subscribe to the mailing list for a daily or weekly update of new models and parts open for reservation.

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 24, 2018, 03:50:13 am
It does seem as though Plaza Japan sell 95% of their wares through eBay. Logical when you think about it as it must be that a huge amount of their sales are, to them, abroad.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 25, 2018, 12:00:39 am
At one time I thought some of the Japanese retailers were one in the same thing, but they aren't

Hobby Search:
Tamada Build 7F/6F Misuji 1-1-19 Taitoku Tokyo, 111-0055 Japan
(Note that we are operating ONLY as an online shop. We do NOT have a physical store.)

Plaza Japan supposedly in Osaka but they seem to have disappeared from ebay all of a sudden


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 25, 2018, 03:37:39 am
Plaza Japan are still there. Do a Worldwide search for "Kato Glacier Express" in eBay and up they pop. :)

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on February 25, 2018, 12:37:38 pm
Plaza japan have. A spares list on their new release page


Where on their website ?  [url]https://www.plazajapan.com/[/url] ([url]https://www.plazajapan.com/[/url])

steve


They are on the bottom of the page quoted, but Even the spares are on reserve order!


Yeah, I am not familiar with the plazajapan website, can't seem to find anything model train related.

The good thing with the HobbySearch (1999.co.jp) website, they list the spare parts (ASSY) approximately one week after a new model is listed. Pays out to visit the site at least once a week. Also recommended is to subscribe to the mailing list for a daily or weekly update of new models and parts open for reservation.

steve 



As above

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218)

A google search for plaza japan trains found

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/ (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 25, 2018, 12:52:15 pm
As above

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218[/url])

A google search for plaza japan trains found

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/[/url])



I see, I see where the confusion comes from, this is HOBBY SEARCH (1999.co.jp) and has nothing to do with plaza japan (the one on ebay nor plazajapan.com)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on February 25, 2018, 01:37:49 pm
As above

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218[/url])

A google search for plaza japan trains found

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/[/url])
[/quote
As above

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10495218[/url])

A google search for plaza japan trains found

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/[/url])



I see, I see where the confusion comes from, this is HOBBY SEARCH (1999.co.jp) and has nothing to do with plaza japan (the one on ebay nor plazajapan.com)

steve


I see, I see where the confusion comes from, this is HOBBY SEARCH (1999.co.jp) and has nothing to do with plaza japan (the one on ebay nor plazajapan.com)

steve


Oops! ( honest guv, it was late and I’d had a glasses of wine...)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 25, 2018, 02:16:18 pm
OK GUYS,

The Hobbysearch/Plaza Japan discussion has reached a terminal point I think so lets leave it there?

More importantly MDS-Modell curtain wall vans come on line in about 28 days according to their site. I have a friend in Germany who is reasonably happy to place a bulk order on them if he has the money in his hand. If we all go to MDS individually I suspect that PayPal won't be an option so we will get cained on Exchange Rates and individual Bank Charges and Conversion Charges and also, given the current German occupation with external postage rates we will probably get cained on them too. My friend will happily receive and send on a group parcel at face cost. The only real thing is who wants what and do you trust me/us to deliver the goods? You would obviously have to pay UK postage and an allocation of the PayPal transaction cost and the group German and Germany > UK postage costs. The PayPal transaction would be done "Friends and Family" at a cost of 1%.

I'm offering this as a favour, not a commercial transaction. If your  not interested then that's fine.

The prototype model photos looked good but I don't know what couplers will be fitted. Do you?

Commitments would need a PayPal payment to me at that time, they would pass direct to Germany, I'm not a bank but a modeller.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard.

Co-ordinator - WsM N gauge Society Group -- for my Sins!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 25, 2018, 10:11:25 pm
Here is Kato GE 4/4 III number ten! Done as 649 in the simple Holcim livery. Body stripped and sprayed white, decals are - name and numbers by AB-Modell (special), the Holcim logos were found on eBay for truck modellers, one sheet of 1/50th scale and one sheet of 1/76th scale. The 1/50th sheet yielded the large logo and the others came from the 1/76th sheet. Usual re-gauge to 6.5mm, front handrails from AB, pipes are etchings from TJ Modele of France, well worth looking at for detailing parts. Microtrains Z scale couplers fitted. Number eleven is the Albula one which is in works for detailing.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/5966-250218220643.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=62283)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 25, 2018, 10:23:15 pm
Um - NICE!!

I'm hoping to generate a spare Ge4/4III body this week. I'd welcome advice on re-decorating it in this livery:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-110118180104.jpeg)

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 25, 2018, 10:38:17 pm
Um - NICE!!

I'm hoping to generate a spare Ge4/4III body this week. I'd welcome advice on re-decorating it in this livery:-

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/6079-110118180104.jpeg[/url])

Mike Beard


You've picked a nice easy one! You would need access to plenty of photos to try and copy them to turn into decals. Thats why I have stuck to the easy ones so far.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 25, 2018, 11:05:18 pm
Nice job Metroman64 !

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 25, 2018, 11:15:02 pm
I'd welcome advice on re-decorating it in this livery:-

Mike Beard

Has this one been done by Bemo in 1/87 ? If so, all you need is to find a guy with a model in this livery and a flat bed scanner (Bemo forum, Swiss railway forum, maybe FB). Get him to scan it in a high resolution and from there on it is, as they say, just peanuts  ;)  Adjust it to the right size in Photoshop (or similar) and print it on white decal paper with a color laser. Or on clear decal paper and print the white lettering with an Alps MD printer  ;) Pad printing would be another way to go, or a combination of both. You wanted advise, you started it  ;) :D

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 25, 2018, 11:27:21 pm
OK GUYS,



More importantly MDS-Modell curtain wall vans come on line in about 28 days according to their site. I have a friend in Germany who is reasonably happy to place a bulk order on them if he has the money in his hand. If we all go to MDS individually I suspect that PayPal won't be an option so we will get cained on Exchange Rates and individual Bank Charges and Conversion Charges and also, given the current German occupation with external postage rates we will probably get cained on them too. My friend will happily receive and send on a group parcel at face cost. The only real thing is who wants what and do you trust me/us to deliver the goods? You would obviously have to pay UK postage and an allocation of the PayPal transaction cost and the group German and Germany > UK postage costs. The PayPal transaction would be done "Friends and Family" at a cost of 1%.

I'm offering this as a favour, not a commercial transaction. If your  not interested then that's fine.


My fear has been realised, here is a post only about the MDS items but not on the new separate MDS thread...



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 25, 2018, 11:30:13 pm

Has this one been done by Bemo in 1/87 ? If so, all you need is to find a guy with a model in this livery and a flat bed scanner (Bemo forum, Swiss railway forum, maybe FB).

Yes, BEMO 1259-134

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 26, 2018, 07:12:28 am
OK GUYS,



More importantly MDS-Modell curtain wall vans come on line in about 28 days according to their site. I have a friend in Germany who is reasonably happy to place a bulk order on them if he has the money in his hand. If we all go to MDS individually I suspect that PayPal won't be an option so we will get cained on Exchange Rates and individual Bank Charges and Conversion Charges and also, given the current German occupation with external postage rates we will probably get cained on them too. My friend will happily receive and send on a group parcel at face cost. The only real thing is who wants what and do you trust me/us to deliver the goods? You would obviously have to pay UK postage and an allocation of the PayPal transaction cost and the group German and Germany > UK postage costs. The PayPal transaction would be done "Friends and Family" at a cost of 1%.

I'm offering this as a favour, not a commercial transaction. If your  not interested then that's fine.


I rather expected this to happen too. Perhaps a Moderator could move the thread across?


My fear has been realised, here is a post only about the MDS items but not on the new separate MDS thread...



.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 26, 2018, 08:54:07 am
pipes are etchings from TJ Modele of France


Do you have a link ? I found the webpage and lots of stuff but couldn't find hoses. Je ne parlez pas pommes frittes  ;)

I ordered a ton of these from Hobbysearch (http://www.1999.co.jp/itbig49/10495474b.jpg) for all my Ge 4/4 IIIs

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 26, 2018, 08:57:30 am
It does seem somewhat odd with such a small subject to have separate threads for a Gauge/Scale combination that boasts 2 loco types and one railcar.

Just my take on it as I thought this thread was flexible enough to accommodate everything.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 26, 2018, 09:01:18 am
pipes are etchings from TJ Modele of France


Do you have a link ? I found the webpage and lots of stuff but couldn't find hoses. Je ne parlez pas pommes frittes  ;)

I ordered a ton of these from Hobbysearch ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/itbig49/10495474b.jpg[/url]) for all my Ge 4/4 IIIs

steve

What a good idea. Could you put up a link for the buying page Steve now we have seen the photo?

Cheers,

Mike Beard.

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 26, 2018, 09:03:01 am
Just had a thought, how cool would it be if Mr. TOMIX or Mr. Micro ACE would decide to get a piece them self of the big RhB cake. Some competition for Kato on the home market to get these freight cars (and of course, baggage cars) coming.

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 26, 2018, 09:07:49 am
What a good idea. Could you put up a link for the buying page Steve now we have seen the photo?

Cheers,

Mike Beard.



This is the link (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10495474) but the parts are on Waiting list for now. Put your email down and keep an eye on it because the parts should arrive soon and if they have ordered surplus, what they usually do you have to be quick.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 26, 2018, 09:21:20 am
You are obviously a better digger than me Steve as I could not find those in the normal run of spare parts or perhaps I was just being blind - again! Thank you.

It would be interesting to know when you get yours if you need one or two kits per loco as only one ends worth is shown in the picture.

Thank You,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 26, 2018, 09:24:25 am
It would be interesting to know when you get yours if you need one or two kits per loco as only one ends worth is shown in the picture.

It's enough for one loco, both ends.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 26, 2018, 10:07:21 am
No Plaza Japan Kato delivery today, the postman has just been leaving a letter from Specsavers not a demand for money with menaces.

As to Tomix and MicroAce and others joining the "Rubber Gauge/Scale Society" the RhB do charge a fee for copyright. In a way we are lucky that we have (MDS-Modell-nothing to do with Kato) making locos and vans. It's a shame they went forward with the Ge4/4II. It's a duplication we don't need or want but it does happen.

It took some years for smaller companies to join in the Bemo HOm theme and it will be the same with RhB in 1:150th on 9mm gauge track. However the Shapeways site when questioned with "RhB 1:150th" does give hope though I'm not sure about fragile bogies. Can you buy the EW1 bogies separately?

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 26, 2018, 10:17:29 am
Can you buy the EW1 bogies separately?


Same again, Waiting list mail (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10460333), but yes.

Go to the Hobbysearch website and just type Kato RhB into the search and look what pops up, lots of parts, put your email down on parts you're interested in and as soon as they become available you'll get an email.

Quote
(MDS-Modell-nothing to do with Kato)


 ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 27, 2018, 12:08:19 am
However the Shapeways site when questioned with "RhB 1:150th" does give hope though I'm not sure about fragile bogies.

As you will have seen in the pictures of my stock, I gave up on the AK bogies early in the piece and modify the 3D chassis to accept the Kato GEX bogies.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on February 27, 2018, 08:41:55 pm
pipes are etchings from TJ Modele of France


Do you have a link ? I found the webpage and lots of stuff but couldn't find hoses. Je ne parlez pas pommes frittes  ;)

I ordered a ton of these from Hobbysearch ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/itbig49/10495474b.jpg[/url]) for all my Ge 4/4 IIIs

steve


Here's  the link for TJ Modeles.
http://www.tj-modeles.fr/shop/prestashop/fr/73-detaillage-materiel-moteur (http://www.tj-modeles.fr/shop/prestashop/fr/73-detaillage-materiel-moteur)

Just scroll through the pages of this section and you should find them. They accept PayPal.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 28, 2018, 10:58:50 am
Just got the paypal invoice from Hobbysearch for all the Ge 4/4 II spare parts. Now would be a good time to keep an eye on the website if you need spare parts, some may become available for a short time.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 28, 2018, 11:09:24 am
Following your good advice Steve I have joined the queue at Hobbysearch for the jumper set and EW1 bogies. But I'm right at the "far end" so I may/may not get a chance of any in this round.

More importantly are either replacement tyre-free wheelsets, my preference, or a few sets of traction tyres for each type of loco so that's 3 already!

Thank You for the "Heads Up".

As of now - 11.00am on the 28th February I don't have any notification about the parcel from Plaza Japan containing my Ge4/4II and spare parts. When they arrive I'l put up a picture of them on my approach tracks.

Happy Times,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 28, 2018, 11:18:16 am
Someone after an Allegra ? Hobbysearch have them in stock again.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 12:05:25 pm
Hi,
Today arrived my little “red” ordered on 14th at plazajapan....how to separate the boy from chassis?...sheet instructions are not so clear.
Thanks in advance.

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 28, 2018, 12:12:36 pm
Hobbysearch are also doing a deal on 10-1145 at about £62.00 un-posted. :)

Marco, if your "Little Red" is a Kato Ge4/4III I think there is advice further back in this thread. I have to find it when my parcel arrives as it has a spare "Glacier on Tour" body to swap over with a 644. Put up a page number if you find it as it will save us all time later. :beers:

Thanks
 
Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 12:34:01 pm
Hi Mike,
My little “red” is the new Ge 4/4 II by Kato.. :)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/3697-280218122831.jpeg (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/3697-280218122831.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 28, 2018, 12:53:25 pm
Congratulations Marco,
You have won the race to be first person in Europe to admit to having a Kato Ge4/4II.  :laugh3: :claphappy: :bounce:

That leaves me just a little unhappy. :hmmm:

Happy Times,

Mike Beard

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 02:20:04 pm
 :bounce:
I am very happy for this ;D
Totally was € 73 (GBP 64)posted... and I paid € 20 for outside EU additionally

Cheers from the “and the winners is...”
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 28, 2018, 03:33:31 pm
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Looking forward to the obligatory winners review, Marco. :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 03:47:41 pm
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Looking forward to the obligatory winners review, Marco. :)

Just looked....but I don’t like coconut.... :( :laugh:

I do prefer beer :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 28, 2018, 04:54:52 pm
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Looking forward to the obligatory winners review, Marco. :)

Just looked....but I don’t like coconut.... :( :laugh:

I do prefer beer :beers:

I've poured a pint of beer in a padded envelope and sent it to you via FedEx (they wouldn't allow a glass bottle to be shipped) ;) :D

So, what are your first impressions of the new Ge4/4II? :hmmm:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 05:49:44 pm
 :thankyousign:


About first impressions ..I can say is a really nice one..just detailed and liveried and a classic Kato-powered runner....also included a bag  of little tubes to add and rapido couplers..the only one thing to criticize ( for me) are the plastic’ Kato pantos..fot the rest , nothing to object :)

Marco





Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 05:52:33 pm

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/3697-280218121900.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 05:53:32 pm

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/3697-280218121003.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on February 28, 2018, 06:04:04 pm
Many thanks Marco. :thumbsup:
I agree the pantos are not so good, but I've seen worse.

Looking forward to mine arriving soon.  :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 28, 2018, 06:08:59 pm
I must admit it does look rather special. :goggleeyes:

I wonder if mine will be available by Saturday :jealous:

As I'm going to populate my coaches, gradually, I'm wondering whose sitting figure would be the most appropriate for the driver. I do have a Farish loco driver set that has a single sitting E/DMU driver in it but he is in a  BR 20th century uniform of blue overalls I don't think Kato have such a figure. Any suggestions appreciated. :uneasy:

Mike B.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 06:27:08 pm

A little video considering the fact loco is still NOT  DCC CHIPPED and is running on a DCC circuit :D

https://youtu.be/bWA5IUs-7L4
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 06:38:51 pm
Father and son :)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/3697-280218183607.jpeg)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 07:31:52 pm
 :hellosign:
...but very impressive notice is....loco is arrived despite snow, ice , delays on transport ( High speed trains as ITALO and FRECCIAROSSA have 3/ 4 hours dealy..considering distance between Milan to Rome is covered in 3 hours :D)
....despite all weather discomfort is arrived just in time :)
Good luck to all are waiting for posties.

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 28, 2018, 08:06:49 pm
According to the local weather forecast if the postie does not bring my redemption card tomorrow morning both he and I are going to need reindeer on Friday so I can collect my Kato stuff from Plaza Japan, which then will have been 7 days in the mail. :confused2:

Cannot help the weather. :helpneededsign:

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 28, 2018, 09:20:42 pm
which then will have been 7 days in the mail :confused2:

Do you receive your parcels from Japan normally faster than that ? EMS ? How much do you pay for shipping ? I let most my parcels be sent by Registered SAL and that takes at least 10 working days to arrive. So I am not expecting the parcel to be here before next Monday in a week.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on February 28, 2018, 09:39:32 pm
In truth I would reckon on 10>14 days from order placement to delivery but normally there is a 3 day delay in dispatch in there, PJ dispatched last Friday. It's the first time I've really used Plaza Japan and what bugs me is that I've got about a £130/140 Kato order on them and the packet is not registered so I cannot track its progress through which is something JAL and the UKPO combined are good at. Hence I hope for a swift delivery which the weather can really mess up.

Still, it's only a hobby!

Mike B.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on February 28, 2018, 11:33:57 pm

Hauling test on DC Tomix 177 radii DC..
https://www.facebook.com/marco.neri.547/videos/10212642751918568/ (https://www.facebook.com/marco.neri.547/videos/10212642751918568/)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on February 28, 2018, 11:47:10 pm

Hauling test on DC Tomix 177 radii DC..

wow   :-[

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on February 28, 2018, 11:52:01 pm
I have today received one each of the two types of Hai van offered by TT Trams on Shapeways.

As I plan to do the 'whole side pritt sticked paper' trick most of the deficiencies of 3D should be masked. The wagons come as two parts, the complete body and the roof, which will be helpful for spray painting the roof. 

The two Shapeways versions are different variants of the Hai vans to those being produced by MDS, which is good.

The bodies have no underframe but that is helpful for me as I can reuse the various modified chassis that I had created for the Roco van conversions that will no longer be needed.


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 02, 2018, 12:18:51 pm
Well, the postman came yesterday but only brought some bogies for a friend in the States. We have had some snow overnight so it's 4x4 weather here. No postman today so no news of my Kato order.

Last night, as it was too cold to go in the garage, I went through the locos by various Japanese manufacturers. There are a few small brown ones with two pantographs that have the air of being RhB locos. Unfortunately there are no fixed wheelbase "Boxes on Wheels" but one does look almost the part. have a look here:-

http://www.newhallstation.com/images-lib/microace_n_scale/MA-A3201/ (http://www.newhallstation.com/images-lib/microace_n_scale/MA-A3201/)

I think the price is a bit ambitious!

Happy Days - for my Italiano Spinone who LOVES the snow!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 02, 2018, 10:42:00 pm
I've bought one of these locos. The BIG problem will be fitting Kato semi-permanent couplers!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-020318194810.jpeg)

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 03, 2018, 03:57:12 pm
It's not Kato (and it's MDS neither)  :hmmm:  but it's RhB   :camera:

How cool is this ? (http://www.railpictures.net/photo/650155/)
(night shot of an ABe 4/4 shoving a plow on the Bernina line)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 03, 2018, 05:06:39 pm
It's not Kato (and it's MDS neither)  :hmmm:  but it's RhB   :camera:

How cool is this ? ([url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/650155/[/url])
(night shot of an ABe 4/4 shoving a plow on the Bernina line)

steve


With the ubiquitous Ae8/12 railcars working the Bernina Line you forget that Ae4/4's are still there working away.

Thank You for that.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 03, 2018, 05:38:11 pm
A separate thread has been started here:-

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40649.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40649.0)

under the scorching title of:-

"Re: Kato locos that might look like old Rhaetische Bahn series"

It will, of course, die in much the same way as the MDS-Modell one has.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 04, 2018, 10:24:31 am
I've been watching the comings and goings at Filisur Station over the past week or so but there is also an archive associated with it. I had a look at a typical August day in 2016 and the thing that amazed me was the difference the Allegra emu's and the similar new coaching sets have made to the train formations. Prior to the new coaching sets it was a stream of EW1/ 2 coaches and Filisur station itself was used in a different way. Go back to 2003 and the Glacier Express sets don't exist but the stock does in 4 coach blocks in BVZ livery spliced into trains of EW1 coaches.

Just the thing to do on a cold snowy Spring Day!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 04, 2018, 10:33:25 am
Who knows what RHB stands for ? (Warning, trick question)   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 04, 2018, 12:33:24 pm
RHB is a Malaysian  bank. It takes your money, then takes you for a ride

RhB is a Swiss railway. It takes your money, then takes you for a ride.

Beats me!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: AlanL on March 04, 2018, 06:07:01 pm
Took delivery of a couple of Kato GE 4/4 II....

Any idea what DCC decoder will drop into them/

Thank you

AlanL
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 04, 2018, 07:32:53 pm
RHB is a Malaysian  bank. It takes your money, then takes you for a ride

RhB is a Swiss railway. It takes your money, then takes you for a ride.

Beats me!

Mike Beard.

RHB = Rorschach - Heiden - Bergbahn

It was a Swiss standard gauge rack railway which in 2006 went over into the AB Appenzeller Bahnen.

steve

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 04, 2018, 07:34:26 pm
Took delivery of a couple of Kato GE 4/4 II....

Any idea what DCC decoder will drop into them/

Thank you

AlanL

Could you post a picture of the drive ? I haven't received mine yet.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 04, 2018, 07:50:19 pm
With the Ge 4/4 II soon to be in everyone's possession here an interesting video I found on uTube.

Holzabfuhr in Furna (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDd0yaaqdGU)

Enjoy !

steve   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 04, 2018, 07:52:54 pm
By the Cringe Steve, that's a good model,

Mike
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: AlanL on March 04, 2018, 08:57:47 pm

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6611-040318205651.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=62600)

Here is picture of Kato GE 4/4 II mecahnism

AlanL
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 04, 2018, 09:06:51 pm
I'll be interested to learn the answer to that question.

In the meantime thank you AlanL for giving us a "First Look" inside the loco.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on March 04, 2018, 09:11:04 pm
Hi,
It seems just place  for  Digitrax DN163K4a decoder...
Thanks again for pic. :thankyousign:


Marco

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 04, 2018, 09:33:55 pm
Took delivery of a couple of Kato GE 4/4 II....

Any idea what DCC decoder will drop into them/

Thank you

AlanL


Alan, the digitrax DN163K4A (http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dn163k4a) seems to be the decoder to go (same as for the Ge 4/4 III)

Alternatively, the TCS K7D4 (http://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/N_Scale/Kato/Kato%20ACS-64_K7D4.html) could be used.

I personally prefer the TCS decoders.   

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: AlanL on March 04, 2018, 09:42:39 pm
Since I am getting out of the American N gauge and going all Swiss with the new Kato offerings I have a lot to learn.  I just completed taking measurements and yes the recommended Digitrax and TCS mentioned will fit!  I will be obtaining the TCS versions for all my GE 4/4 series.

Just ordered a couple of ESU sound decoders for my Allegra fleet.  Will be a bit of a challange in installing them.

Not sure if I am going to run on 6.5 mm track. Looks like a lot of work!

AlanL
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 05, 2018, 10:22:52 am
I've just had a demand for "Money with Menaces" from Parcel Force about my parcel from Plaza Japan. I don't mind the VAT but I object most strongly to £11.25 collection/delivery fee.:veryangry: Normally they come Royal mail who "only" charge £8.00. >:( Do other European countries pay similar charges? :confused1:

Hopefully I'll get the parcel tomorrow. :)

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 05, 2018, 10:24:26 am
DCC decoder for US $12 incl. FREE shipping ! (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEM651-LaisDcc-Z2-860010-Super-Small-Size-2-Function-Dcc-Decoders-For-Z-N-Scale-locomotive/32842044623.html?spm=2114.search0104.8.5.105e3af0ltaQwJ&priceBeautifyAB=0)

Don't think it gets any cheaper. Just bought one, keep you posted.

steve

Edit: No steve, it's not FREE shipping, you pay for it, it's included in the $12   :P
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 05, 2018, 10:39:46 am
£11.25 collection/delivery fee

I do not understand. You did pay for shipping, right ? Did they change the system ? You pay plazaJapan for shipping from Japan to the UK border and then you pay again for shipping from border to your address ? Sounds like a bloody rip off to me.

I pay nothing here in NZ (so far) if the value of the parcel including shipping cost is not more than NZ $400 (I can only buy 3 Kato RhB locomotives at a time :worried:)

In Switzerland they pay now CHF 13 if the parcel gets checked, small parcels 'normally' slip thru unchecked I was told.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on March 05, 2018, 10:44:52 am
I've had a load of the LaisDCC decoders, they were reasonable, but no better. Have relegated mine to function use, for which they're perfect. Motor control wasn't brilliant, but I admit I never tried fiddling too extensively with CVs to make them smoother. Zimo put them to shame for slow speed operation.

I've got about 20 of them in use though, and they've never given trouble.

The Parcelforce fee is an "admin fee" for them paying the customs charges for you. The trouble is that it's not proportional, so if you order something for £1000 and pay £250 in duty (making numbers up) it's £11.25 'handling fee', if you pay £2 in fees it's still an £11.25 fee, which smarts a little!

Royal Mail only charge £8 for the fee, plus whatever VAT and duty is due.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 05, 2018, 01:33:40 pm
I'm quite happy to pay HMRC direct and then they can release the parcel to the Post Office and they can deliver it in the same way as normal. As it is I have a parcel now with Parcel Force where it will be mixed up with much bigger parcels and subject to possible damage thereby. I will examine it all most carefully and be very sceptical about all of it.

I'll know tomorrow,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 05, 2018, 01:46:45 pm
Railway Wonders of the World can be found here:-

http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com (http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com)

as well as my study - somewhere!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on March 05, 2018, 04:45:55 pm
I've just had a demand for "Money with Menaces" from Parcel Force about my parcel from Plaza Japan. I don't mind the VAT but I object most strongly to £11.25 collection/delivery fee.:veryangry: Normally they come Royal mail who "only" charge £8.00. >:( Do other European countries pay similar charges? :confused1:

Hopefully I'll get the parcel tomorrow. :)

Mike Beard.

Hi,
Mine was charged “only” € 20 :( by Poste Italiane

Marco


Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 05, 2018, 05:06:14 pm
Marco said:-

Mine was charged “only” € 20 :( by Poste Italiane

Marco


While I'm jumping up and down about the cost the package includes:-

2 off      Ge4/4II   locos
1 off      Ge4/4III  Spare body for No 651 "Glacier on Tour"
1 off      Spare body for GE Buffet
1 off      Spare inside for GE Buffet
10 off    Long corridor connectors.

so I know I was spending money when I bought it. :worried: It's the extra £3.50 to have Parcel Force deliver it that I object to. :o  I think Parcel Force is the "heavy" end of the Post Office and totally inappropriate for delivering "toy trains" which can be vulnerable. :'(

Time will tell. (William Tell?) :ouch: :whiteflag:

Mike Beard

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 05, 2018, 06:40:49 pm
Who is 'censoring' this forum ? One of Mike's post was altered, but there's no 'Last edit...' line visible and a post from @njee20 is totally gone.   :confused2: :uneasy: :hmmm: :thumbsdown:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 05, 2018, 07:12:16 pm
Found it   ;)  Not censored (sorry) just moved...

The Ramblings of Njee20 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40677.0)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 05, 2018, 07:42:32 pm
Well, moving parts of a thread to another place without leaving a note at the originating place is a form of censorship no matter how subtle and it's not the first instance of this occuring.

My thought is that this thread suffers from its title. It discusses Kato Swiss and that was fine in its younger days but now that MDS-Modell,  Faller and others have joined the fray it's the title that is limiting the discussion.

 Perhaps if the thread title were along the lines of:-

"Modelling the RhB in 1:150th scale on N Gauge Track"

then the moderation would not appear so heavy handed.

Just my thoughts,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 06, 2018, 01:22:01 am
Perhaps if the thread title were along the lines of:-
"Modelling the RhB in 1:150th scale on N Gauge Track"
Mike Beard.

As the OP of this thread, here's my two penn'orth

Titling of this Swiss 'metre' gauge equipment has been difficult from the start, such that I chose the now very odd looking 'modelling the RhB in Nn scale' for  my original 'early days' article in Continental Modeller as I was at a loss to work out what to title it as it was narrow gauge on 'standard gauge' track...

I don't think Mike's idea works if the thread is to cover more than Kato, because, quite rightly, the available stuff is now wider ranging. Also quite rightly, the thread has included discussion about putting the Kato (and other builders) items onto Z gauge track, which even I am now branching in to.

How about:
"Modelling Swiss narrow gauge in 1:150th scale"


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 06, 2018, 01:31:52 am
Yes Gordon, by all means. I'm comfy with:-

"Modelling Swiss narrow gauge in 1:150th scale"

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on March 06, 2018, 07:35:24 am
I cannot go along with this renaming of this thread.

The framework the Forum uses, and it works perfectly well IMO, is already in place for us to keep posts well organised in easily recognisable areas. At present this thread has become, frankly, a mess, as others have stated elsewhere.

If the proposal to rename it as suggested goes ahead, that 'mess' will be compounded. This thread will become chaotically bloated with all manner of disparate posts, albeit primarily about the RhB.

Just imagine, for instance, that all posts for Kato RhB, MDS RhB, Gordon's layout developments, my layout plans and constructions, Mike Beard's layout plans and construction, Joe Soap's layout plans and construction,  all manner of RhB related photos, videos, articles, questions, product reviews,........the list could be practically infinite.  And ALL of it within one thread, rather than in named threads in the existing subdivisions of this Forum: Layout Planning, Layout Construction, Real Railway Discussion, et cetera.

What is the purpose of this Forum if it is not to subdivide discussions into these component parts TO MAKE IT EASIER TO FIND, READ, FOLLOW, AND UNDERSTAND FOR ALL FORUM USERS, BOTH MEMBERS AND GUESTS
.
After all, it is what everybody else is doing throughout the Forum, and it is how the Forum works.

The renaming of this thread should remain as it is, dealing with the Kato RhB series of models, with other threads, some already existing, established as and when required.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Only Me on March 06, 2018, 08:29:12 am
Right as i see it this is a modelling forum for trains, the moderation team have a thankless task of trying to keep threads on track, there are a few members who seem to take pride in diversifying/fragmenting as many topics as possible. 

I split the threads off yesterday, not @Railwaygun (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=941)..... i didnt leave a nice message as I dont have to explain myself... im also pretty sure that if the .io group gets thread spamming their moderation team would clear it up pretty quickly too..

So over moderation? No not this time....poor placement of split topic yes on my part!

I'm also going to lock this thread because its been spammed off topic 🔐

If you want a topic where you can discuss the world then please create one in the General Discussion area...


Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2018, 08:55:27 am
I would also add that the moderation on this topic has been solely at the request of the various posters on this thread as the various members can't seem to agree what goes where, we've tried to be accommodating but it has just got out of hand with the number of requests made by various members. 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Tank on March 06, 2018, 06:28:10 pm
Now unlocked.  :locked:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2018, 06:42:49 pm
Now unlocked.  :locked:

The thread has been unlocked as things have now quietened down and it contains a lot of useful information to those who are interested in the RhB etc.   Hopefully posters on here will be a little more diligent on what and how they post.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 06, 2018, 09:04:04 pm
Using Kato Spares

My order on Plaza Japan included a body and interior for a Glacier Express Buffet car. You can't buy a Buffet car so my thought was to put the insides in and the body on a spare 1st. When I opened up the interior I discovered that the Buffet underframe was included so no real need to cannibalise the coach but just "borrow" the bogies. This is good and it only took 15 minutes.  :)

The other item I bought was a spare body for 651 as "Glacier on Tour". I had a spare 644 from a set, you really don't need two, so it is literally a case of swapping bodies. OK, the pantographs have to be moved across but all the busbars come fitted so it's nice and straight forward. I don't really know how I took the body off, I was pushing scalpels in around the cab area and off it came. It was plain sailing after that. ;D

I hope this helps anybody teetering on the brink,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 06, 2018, 09:22:15 pm
Glacier Express Interiors

So, having assembled a 6 coach Glacier Express against the odds I've realised that they look very empty with all those large windows. Kato sell populated interiors, for a price, and I've bought a 2nd class sample. The Kato folks are a little wide so you only get one per pair of seats. I've got a couple of bags of "pre-painted" sitting Chinese people and I think they are OK for EW style coaches once repainted  but a bit scant for GE coaches. I've looked at others and Noch do a nice set but they work out at about £1/head. So does anyone know of an in-between supplier?

Also I've found photographs of the interiors of both 1st and 2nd class GE coaches but not the Buffet car. Does anybody have any information on them? Is Kato 24-224 appropriate for the Buffet Car?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 06, 2018, 10:04:20 pm
Glacier Express Interiors

I've got a couple of bags of "pre-painted" sitting Chinese people and I think they are OK for EW style coaches once repainted  but a bit scant for GE coaches.

The Chinese people are more than perfect for the Glacier Express because in real life these trains are filled to 90% with Asian people anyway  ;)

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 06, 2018, 10:16:57 pm
It may be true that 90% of the GE passengers are Japanese in origin but that does not change the fact that the figures they put in their exchange interiors are European.

The Chinese figures are so badly formed it's difficult to believe that some are supposed to be human, hence my relegating them to EW1 coaches where the outline is more important than the facts.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 06, 2018, 10:19:44 pm
It may be true that 90% of the GE passengers are Japanese in origin but that does not change the fact that the figures they put in their exchange interiors are European.

These are probably figures they get from NOCH.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 07, 2018, 04:56:02 am
It may be true that 90% of the GE passengers are Japanese in origin but that does not change the fact that the figures they put in their exchange interiors are European.

These are probably figures they get from NOCH.

steve

No, they are of  Kato manufacture as they follow the style of the other Kato figures and are totally different to Noch whose bulk sets are very Germanic in dress.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 07, 2018, 01:02:05 pm
New Kato Locos

I've taken a few photos of the Ge4/4II alongside the III. They both look very good!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-070318123340-626681501.jpeg)

631 side view

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-070318123340-626681348.jpeg)

642 0ver 631 showing difference in lengths

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-070318123235-62667246.jpeg)

A contrast in front ends

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-070318123233-626651380.jpeg)

Side view of 631 and 642

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-070318123233-62665559.jpeg)

Side View of 631 and 651 which is a 644 with a "Body Transplant"

Now before I make any haulage tests on either of my 631's I'll run them in for 30 minutes each way.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 07, 2018, 09:45:17 pm
I just noticed, the pantographs are the other way round.

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on March 07, 2018, 10:46:05 pm
Yeo, that’s correct. The mk2s look great.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 08, 2018, 12:53:07 am
I just noticed, the pantographs are the other way round.

I don't know if it is a technical thing, but it is noticeable that all the retrofitted loco types have the pantographs with the 'pointy bit' facing away from the loco body. I have always wondered if this was anything to do with the fact that they were built with diamond pantographs, and maybe when fitting the single arm version, that minimised the work required to fit the new pantos in a similar position to the old ones
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 08, 2018, 03:32:06 am
I just noticed, the pantographs are the other way round.
Mike B

Are there steps supplied in the box to put underneath the cab doors ?

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 08, 2018, 03:51:08 am
What is the Kato or Roundhouse part # for the short coupler ? (The ones that are included in the 28-186 Glacier Express short coupling set ?) I saw other Kato models with these coupler I assume they must be available as a spare part. Thanks

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 08, 2018, 04:31:37 am
While I was re-building 651 I tried a short coach coupling from the EW1 sets onto the pin that the Rapido coupler sits on and it fitted and I wondered then if it were possible to get round the dreaded 6" radius curve with those fitted.

Has anybody tried?

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on March 08, 2018, 06:55:05 am
Hi all. I have just started to collect the Kato RhB and am going to stay with the n track. Lots of locos, coaches and units available but what about freight. Are any of you boys and girls using stock that looks similar to the RhB, maybe just repainting it, or are there other options ie shapeways.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Bealman on March 08, 2018, 07:11:20 am
G'day from Australia, David, and welcome to the NGF!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on March 08, 2018, 07:16:51 am
G'day from Australia, David, and welcome to the NGF!  :thumbsup:

Hi, it might be of interest to your good self, I built Dawes Creek Australian N layout a few years ago, retired now. WWw.dawdawes.com (http://WWw.dawdawes.com)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 08, 2018, 09:02:05 am
Hello David,

Welcome to the "Madhouse". This thread is more or less strictly for Kato Swiss equipment, both real and speculative. We have another thread:-

Modelling Swiss narrow gauge in 1:150th scale

where we discuss the wider issues arising from modelling the RhB. I think you'll find the beginnings of answers to your questions there.

I'd suggest that if you are looking for "RhB in the Raw" you have a look at the archives for Filisur Station attached to WWW.Schmalspurbahn.CH (http://WWW.Schmalspurbahn.CH) and you will see the dramatic change wrought in the past couple of years, and lots of freight too!

Hope this helps,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on March 08, 2018, 09:50:20 am
I just noticed, the pantographs are the other way round.

I don't know if it is a technical thing, but it is noticeable that all the retrofitted loco types have the pantographs with the 'pointy bit' facing away from the loco body. I have always wondered if this was anything to do with the fact that they were built with diamond pantographs, and maybe when fitting the single arm version, that minimised the work required to fit the new pantos in a similar position to the old ones

Did the mk2s have diamond pantographs? Only ever seen them with single arm.

The MOB Ge4/4 iiis have the single arm pantographs orientated the same way as the RhB mk1s and 2s. The RhB have them the other way around.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 08, 2018, 10:03:29 am
Oh Gosh!

I'm going to have to start looking at photos of the real thing or worse still - Bemo Models! :tv:

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 08, 2018, 10:10:42 am
Did the mk2s have diamond pantographs? Only ever seen them with single arm.

No, they were built with the single arm pantographs. The Ge 4/4 I and the Ge 6/6 II have been built with diamond pantographs.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on March 08, 2018, 10:19:36 am
That's what I thought.

There is a school of thought that by having the 'hinge' facing the direction of travel any obstacle is trying to lower the pantograph in a direction it's designed to fold, rather than fold it back on itself, and as such it may avoid damage.

Ge 4/4 iiis more commonly use the rearmost pantograph in service (also sensible as it means anything that destroys the pantograph won't have taken the other one out in the process), but that supports the orientation of the mk1s, 2s and the MOB 3s.

Probably too far off topic now though. So I'll leave before we get locked again.  :-\
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 08, 2018, 10:22:27 am
Then why turn the pantographs round between builds? I've never understood the engineering of which way round they go :dunce:

On another part ofthe Kato subject entirely does anybody know of a source of an empty kato Glacier Express box? I now have the GE coaches, including Buffet, but they are scattered across 3 started boxes and I'd rather like to have them tidy all in one place. :searchingsign: Yes, no luck :no:

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on March 08, 2018, 11:07:54 am
The Kato bookset boxes are available on eBay usually, obviously won't be a GE one necessarily.

The fact different operators have the pantographs orientated differently on otherwise identical Ge 4/4 iiis suggests there's not an overt amount of logic!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 08, 2018, 11:14:42 am
Then why turn the pantographs round between builds? I've never understood the engineering of which way round they go :dunce:

The big sisters at the SBB (Re 4/4 II/III and Re 6/6) have the single arm pantographs the the same way around as the Ge 4/4 II, with the Re 460 that changed, and the RhB and BAM Ge 4/4 III are the same.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 08, 2018, 11:28:39 am
The fact different operators have the pantographs orientated differently on otherwise identical Ge 4/4 iiis suggests there's not an overt amount of logic!

The MOB not only have the single arm pantographs the other way round mounted than the Rhb and the BAM but they drive with both pantographs up all the time. Why ? No idea.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 08, 2018, 11:33:30 am
Kato news are out. Nothing really exciting. Only thing new for RhB is a Glacier Express sound module.  :uneasy:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 08, 2018, 12:21:13 pm
Where is the Kato news Steve?

Mike
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 08, 2018, 06:59:38 pm
Where is the Kato news Steve?


Kato News July 2018 (http://www.katomodels.com/product/poster/files/2018_7a.jpg)

Listed every month on this page (http://www.katomodels.com/product/poster/index_e.shtml).

Production schedule (http://www.katomodels.com/distribution/schedule_e.shtml).

steve

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 08, 2018, 07:47:21 pm
Thank You Steve,

It's nice to see the Glacier Express is still scheduled for May.

Mike B.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2018, 12:28:19 am

Did the mk2s have diamond pantographs? Only ever seen them with single arm.

The MOB Ge4/4 iiis have the single arm pantographs orientated the same way as the RhB mk1s and 2s. The RhB have them the other way around.

Every time I see your reference to 'Mk2' I think of coaches not locos (EW1 = Mk1, EW2 = Mk2 etc). Might it be better to refer to the locos as 4/4II, 4/4I etc in case there is confusion with coach designations?


Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2018, 12:30:32 am

The MOB Ge4/4 iiis have the single arm pantographs

The big sisters at the SBB (Re 4/4 II/III and Re 6/6) have the single arm pantographs the the same way around as the Ge 4/4 II,  and the RhB and BAM Ge 4/4 III are the same.

Strictly speaking only the RhB Ge4/4III are Ge4/4III as there are two other types of Ge4/4 on RhB. On BAM and MOB they are just Ge4/4.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2018, 12:36:11 am
Hi all. I have just started to collect the Kato RhB and am going to stay with the n track. Lots of locos, coaches and units available but what about freight. Are any of you boys and girls using stock that looks similar to the RhB, maybe just repainting it, or are there other options ie shapeways.

Hi Dave

We've spoken face to face a few times in the past.

Take a look at the two other threads (1:150 scale and MDS Modell) and back through this thread, in particular my posts

159 160 224 444 451 452 453


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 09, 2018, 12:59:17 am
Strictly speaking only the RhB Ge4/4III are Ge4/4III as there are two other types of Ge4/4 on RhB. On BAM and MOB they are just Ge4/4.

Precisely Gordon, perfectly worded, very accurately. Thank you.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: njee20 on March 09, 2018, 07:04:36 am
Purely a case of ease when posting on a phone. Apologies for the offence.

Have fun gents. I’m out.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 09, 2018, 10:35:01 am
The MOB not only have the single arm pantographs the other way round mounted they also drive with both pantographs up all the time. Why ? No idea.

Answering my own question here but I assume it has something to do with the fact that they only run with 900V DC ! (But then, the Berninabahn runs on 1000V DC and I've only seen one Allegra with two pantographs up and that was in winter which could have been for a different reason.)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 09, 2018, 11:03:40 am
Current Densities

If Kato ever do make an MOB loco then you have to consider that the ratio of 11kV to 1kV is about 11 so an Allegra pulling full load, or any motoring load for that matter will pull only about 9% of the current at 11kV than it does at 1kV therefore at 1kV the current densities are 11 times higher at the pantograph pan/overhead wire interface hence two pantographs up. ;)

Hope this helps,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 09, 2018, 11:42:40 am
Current Densities

And we do not want the pantograph start to glow    ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 09, 2018, 11:59:21 am
Another useful Kato product to consider (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10003302), reservations just opened. And please be aware, this item is limited to 24 per household.   :D

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: broadsword on March 09, 2018, 12:10:18 pm
I use one of those for my indoor plants and cacti.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 09, 2018, 02:30:24 pm
Current Densities

There is an instant when starting a train when your pulling full current and going nowhere so all the current is passing through one spot and localised heating is inevitable. As long as the overhead wire does soften too much your alright!

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 09, 2018, 02:42:23 pm
Ge4/4II Truck Stabilising Bracket.

I've been looking through my pictures of the Ge4/4II taken in 2003 and I found this one:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-090318142702.jpeg)

where the truck stabilising bracket is plainly visible as is the anti-hunting damper between it and the truck. There is no sign of this on the Kato model nor I suspect on the MDS model either. To be fair it's difficult to add to a production model but I've just looked and they are still fitted. A piece of worked-up plastic card each side will do. I have the feeling that the cab steps are missing too. Mind, mine goes round a 6" radius curve a treat so I suppose you have to balance one thing against another.

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Hiawatha on March 09, 2018, 05:26:06 pm
I have the feeling that the cab steps are missing too.

On the Kato model they are missing - on the MDS, not.


The MOB not only have the single arm pantographs the other way round mounted they also drive with both pantographs up all the time. Why ? No idea.

Answering my own question here but I assume it has something to do with the fact that they only run with 900V DC ! (But then, the Berninabahn runs on 1000V DC and I've only seen one Allegra with two pantographs up and that was in winter which could have been for a different reason.)

The different pantograph placement piqued my curiosity, and that's what I have found out: The MOB, BAM and RhB Ge 4/4 (III) locos look similar but are technically different; the BAM units for 15 kV AC, the RhB III's for 11 kV AC and the MOB locos for 900 V DC (as you have written already).
The MOB units were built with two-system operation in mind and would have been upgraded for also 15 kV AC, once a three-rail track was built on the standard-gauge Interlaken - Zweisimmen route to connect the two 1,000-mm sections of the GoldenPass Line. Nothing came of it, but the locos were prepared for AC with a ballast weight in place of the transformer, and the pantos turned outward to create additional space for AC pantos and other AC equipment.
The MOB locos always run with both pantos up and also have special slide plates with three current collectors per panto.

(As this is not so much about the RhB I guess this should rather be in the "Modelling Swiss narrow gauge in 1:150th scale" thread.  :confused1: )
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 09, 2018, 05:45:00 pm
The steps ARE there on the MDS-Modell version, :) the stabilising bracket isn't. :) The steps are painted white just to emphasise them. Given the the difference in price I can afford a length of signal ladder and some white paint! ;D

The MDS version is 30 days away, my "cheap" Kato ones are here, now.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2018, 11:54:54 pm
I'm prepared to live with the Kato compromise, given that this will mean the Kato loco is capable of traversing the tightest radius curves, I'd much rather have that. The loco is pretty small after all, so from 'normal viewing distance'...
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2018, 11:55:34 pm

The MDS version is 30 days away, my "cheap" Kato ones are here, now.

Mike Beard

MDS told me they were ready to ship...
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2018, 11:56:47 pm
Lucky break on ebay. :beers:

I've secured another 4/4III 644 for £50 ('hidden' on ebay as it was described as 'Roco'...)

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 10, 2018, 12:02:04 am

(As this is not so much about the RhB I guess this should rather be in the "Modelling Swiss narrow gauge in 1:150th scale" thread.  :confused1: )

I am planning to post about my MOB experiments on that thread as none of the MOB stuff will be Kato (Shapeways bodies, Japanese chassis).

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 10, 2018, 03:57:51 am
Ge4/4II Steps and Things

The drawing shown here:-

http://carsandtrains.com/ironroad/rhb/ge442info.html (http://carsandtrains.com/ironroad/rhb/ge442info.html)

has neither steps or stabilising bracket. I think we now know where Mr Kato got his information :)

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 10, 2018, 04:06:46 am
Yeah nah, I am pretty sure Mr Kato got his information from copies of original blue prints which are available from rhb.ch. And the only reason the Steps and Things are not on the model is to make sure the model will pass thru the tightest radius available from Kato.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 10, 2018, 04:15:02 am
Ge4/4II Steps and Things

I'd have put the steps on the bogie frame, the stabilising bracket could be in the accessories bag.

Just my take on it. Plastic signal ladder, who makes it in 1:150th scale? :)

Of my two locos one runs so much faster than every other Kato beastie. Very odd. :confused2:

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 10, 2018, 04:25:48 am
I'd have put the steps on the bogie frame

Yup, agree. Maybe the MDS one will be available as a Euro 15 spare part ?  ;) 

steve :pint:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 10, 2018, 04:34:35 am
I'd have put the steps on the bogie frame

Yup, agree. Maybe the MDS one will be available as a Euro 15 spare part ?  ;) 

steve :pint:

That CHEAP! :laugh:

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 10, 2018, 05:01:52 pm
RhB Allegra Unit

Hi Folks,

I've just bought an Allegra unit off eBay. The seller tells me that the "motor car" lights don't work. If that's true does anybody know how to get into it? :doh:

 :thankyousign:

Mike Beard

 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 10, 2018, 07:36:34 pm
RhB Allegra Unit

Hi Folks,

I've just bought an Allegra unit off eBay. The seller tells me that the "motor car" lights don't work. If that's true does anybody know how to get into it? :doh:

 :thankyousign:

Mike Beard

 

Ah yes I saw that but don't need yet another one.

I've had the bodies of the Allegras off once or twice, not too difficult IMO
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 10, 2018, 08:14:16 pm
RhB Allegra Unit

Hi Folks,

I've just bought an Allegra unit off eBay. The seller tells me that the "motor car" lights don't work. If that's true does anybody know how to get into it? :doh:

 :thankyousign:

Mike Beard

 

Ah yes I saw that but don't need yet another one.

I've had the bodies of the Allegras off once or twice, not too difficult IMO


AND? How do you get the body off? :confusedsign:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 10, 2018, 08:50:43 pm
AND? How do you get the body off?

I assume like on any other Kato model (big help, I know). I'm too lazy at the moment to take one apart and take pictures while doing it ;)
(promised, I will eventually do it for all three models, a nice how to with pictures)

In the mean time, have a look at this page (https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/rhb-allegra-abe-812-abe-416-e-il-modello-kato/) (scroll down) and you'll see all the parts which should give you an idea how to remove the shell and what may have caused the problem of not having light.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 10, 2018, 08:56:06 pm
Current Densities

Found some more info about the Allegra and its pantographs. On DC operation (Bernina line) both end pantographs are used, while on AC operation only the middle pantograph is used.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 10, 2018, 09:03:05 pm
I;ve just been watching YouTube and there is a shot of an Allegra going downhill with just the rear end pantograph up.

I'll have a look at that page.

Thanks,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 10, 2018, 09:17:07 pm
I;ve just been watching YouTube and there is a shot of an Allegra going downhill with just the rear end pantograph up.

Yes, I read somewhere that as soon as they reach the top they lower one of the two. Two are only needed uphill (more current drawn as you well explained before) or on a fully loaded train with max passenger cars attached.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 10, 2018, 09:35:44 pm
Steve said:-

In the mean time, have a look at this page (scroll down) and you'll see all the parts which should give you an idea how to remove the shell and what may have caused the problem of not having light.


That's interesting but I'm hoping not to reduce it to individual parts. :)

Tomorrow I'll load pictures of locos and coaches going round 6" curves. There is more to this than you think!

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on March 10, 2018, 09:55:40 pm
Hi,
On youtube there are many vids you can see Allegra with both pantos high over..
starting from were line born in Italy...Tirano station.
Greetings.

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 10, 2018, 10:02:49 pm
You mean something like this Marco:-

https://youtu.be/P0LletCbw1Q

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on March 10, 2018, 10:33:52 pm
You mean something like this Marco:-

https://youtu.be/P0LletCbw1Q

Mike Beard


Oh yes,
Exactly Mike :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 10, 2018, 10:53:44 pm
How do you get the body off?


How to remove the body/shell on a Kato Allegra.

1st step is to remove the plow/coupler part. You can just take it off, it is hold in place with two clips.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6270-100318223124.jpeg)

Next step, just slightly spread the shell apart, holding the model with both hands. Both thumbs on the roof, both index and middle finger spreading the shell slightly and the drive will slip out on its own. Alternatively four styrene strips or tooth picks could be used to undo the four clips showed on these pictures (yellow circles).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6270-100318223218.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6270-100318223248.jpeg)

The windows glasses are holding the drive to the shell on both sides (yellow circles)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6270-100318223316.jpeg)   

To access the light board the blue interior part has to be removed as well. This part is hold in on 8 spots, you can easy undo them with a small screw driver or your finger nails. Once all 8 clips are undone the blue part can be slide off to the rear. Don't worry, the black front part (cab interior, front truck) will now only be very loosely attached to the metal drive, part of the construction.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6270-100318223347.jpeg)

Light board.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6270-100318223414.jpeg) 

Careful, when you put the parts back together, the jumper cable will easy get squeezed between the shell and the plow/coupler part and the part will not click into place. Been there, done that.

Hope this helps. Questions or additional info ? Don't hesitate and let us know.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 11, 2018, 06:09:00 am
Hello Steve,

Thank you for that Master Class. My first reaction is that it's very little different to removing the body from a *3 loco. It looks even more difficult to chip. I'm going to wait and run mine when it arrives to see what the truth of the matter is before I start taking it apart. As is with all Kato spares the lights seem to be on back-order. Mind, try buying traction tyres for the common Flieschmann 2-10-0 and the first thing you find is there is no service dealer in the UK.

Cheers,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 11, 2018, 07:31:39 am
It looks even more difficult to chip.

Yeah it looks as there's no space for a 'drop in' decoder and you have to hard wire a decoder in but there is enough room at the rear end of the model to place the decoder in, which isn't visible from the outside.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 11, 2018, 07:48:05 am
A rather unusual shot of the Landwasserviadukt (http://abload.de/img/klein_b_b_jr6a84069tshz.jpg). Hey Mr. Kato, one of each please, thank you.

Tunnel entry (http://www.petervelten.de/Bilder/IMG_1696_1000.jpg).

And who was looking for a clear view on to a Ge 4/4 III roof (http://www.abload.de/img/comp_img_6230l2bm.jpg) ?

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on March 11, 2018, 08:00:17 am
Hi all. I have just started to collect the Kato RhB and am going to stay with the n track. Lots of locos, coaches and units available but what about freight. Are any of you boys and girls using stock that looks similar to the RhB, maybe just repainting it, or are there other options ie shapeways.

Hi Dave

We've spoken face to face a few times in the past.

Take a look at the two other threads (1:150 scale and MDS Modell) and back through this thread, in particular my posts

159 160 224 444 451 452 453
Gordon, thanks, I have seen the MDS web and a company in Germany that you can pre order the Mds through, so that's done. I did fancy going Nm but it's just too expensive, I'm running on peco track with ballasted underlay and I'm pleased with the look
Dave


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 11, 2018, 09:41:55 am
Yes, none of that is currently available off the shelf :(

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 11, 2018, 06:47:05 pm
Kato Vehicles on Curves

Yesterday I managed to set up my test track in the kitchen for a few hours to test a few theories and establish a few facts. I'm interested in how the various bits of coaching stock behave on 150mm/6" radius curves. Having both 282m and 150mm curves on my 48" x 24" board life is easier than doing this on a layout.

So the first shot:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-110318180648-62831595.jpeg)


shows a pair of Glacier Express coaches fitted with Kato short couplings. With the kit come short gangways but it's not necessary to fit them all, just one between coaches and at each end. This is what they look like on the curve:-


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-110318180651-6283328.jpeg)

Well, you'd really want to keep that visual disaster hidden!

So moving on from there I looked at my EW1 set. I've yet deceided what formations I'll use, but I thought I'd have a look anyway. I fitted a spare long gangway in place of a short one and:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-110318180652-628351370.jpeg)

You can see that this is unfinished business. I'll have to try cutting down a long gangway. Mercifully there is a drip strip to butt the top of the gangway to. This is what they look like on curves:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-110318180651-628331677.jpeg)

Again something you'd keep behind the scenes but it does show that a longer second gangway would be useful.

 Moving onto locos This is a *3 fitted witha Kato long semi-permanent coupling coupled to a GE coach fitted with a Kato short semi-permanent coupling.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-110318180648-628311105.jpeg)

You can see that there is plenty of clearance between the coach and loco. However if you substitute a short coupling on the loco this is the result:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-110318180646-628301743.jpeg)

You can see there is scant clearance between coach and loco corner.

However these test revealed one thing to me, and I'd like others to check this, which was thatthe couplings on the converted GE coaches are marginally, 0.50mm, than other stock which brings difficulties in coupling non-similar stock. Now I did check the position on an EW1 and it was OK. I have not added the Allegra or the Ge4/4II or the Bernina cars to the equation. I'll do that later.

I should add that Plaza japan currently have packs of 10 long gangways or "hoods" as they are known.

I hope this helps,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Railwaygun on March 11, 2018, 09:56:26 pm
AND? How do you get the body off?


I assume like on any other Kato model (big help, I know). I'm too lazy at the moment to take one apart and take pictures while doing it ;)
(promised, I will eventually do it for all three models, a nice how to with pictures)
 
In the mean time, have a look at this page ([url]https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/rhb-allegra-abe-812-abe-416-e-il-modello-kato/[/url]) (scroll down) and you'll see all the parts which should give you an idea how to remove the shell and what may have caused the problem of not having light.

steve


A set of cheap phone repair tools from eBay,or a thinned down credit card will help. Insert betrpween she’ll & chassis, and it should help.

Search NGF for body removal ( not the Coop!)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40096.msg489188#msg489188 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40096.msg489188#msg489188)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 11, 2018, 10:10:23 pm
Middle of page 51, Railwaygun, middle of page 51. :-[

I use scalpels to slip bodies off, at my peril! :worried:

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 12, 2018, 11:39:08 am
Steve,

When I looked at the Tunnel Entrance all I saw was a tunnel entrance and nothing else. But the shot of the roof of the Ge4/4III is glorious,

thanks.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 12, 2018, 12:00:45 pm
When I looked at the Tunnel Entrance all I saw was a tunnel entrance and nothing else.

Aren't you building the Landwasserviadukt ? It's THE tunnel entrance from the big viaduct.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 12, 2018, 01:07:50 pm
Hi Steve,

I understand now.

Faller are going to produce such a thing sometime this year. The Landwasser Viaduct is so iconic and when I investigated the Faller product (That name again) and found it's radius was an unbelievable 7.5" I gave up on that idea. Something is brewing for a layout, I'm just currently not too sure what!

More news on curves and gangways later,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 14, 2018, 05:26:41 pm
Hi Guys,

I've bought my #2 Allegra unit, used, off fleabay. It's fine. I've replaced the prototypical couplings with the short semi-permanent type. They seem to handle 6" radius curves fine. That's the Upside. Now the Downside. Unfortunately the lighting diode assembly is missing. It's a bespoke unit that plugs betweem the split chassis halves. It's got two diodes by the look of it, one for forward, the other for reverse. It looks like this:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-140318172301.jpeg)

They seem to be Out of Stock. If anybody has one they could sell me that would make my day!

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 15, 2018, 01:08:21 am
Still waiting for my Kato Ge 4/4 IIs to arrive   :veryangry:

In the mean time I started with some 'modelling'   :D

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6270-150318010226.jpeg)


Just printed the first color decals on my new OKI laser printer   :)  very happy with the outcome, very happy !

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 15, 2018, 12:07:34 pm
They seem to be Out of Stock. If anybody has one they could sell me that would make my day!

Ask him, Nariichi @ Model Train + (https://www.modeltrainplus.net/), he was good in the past to find Kato spare parts for a mate of mine.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 15, 2018, 02:26:26 pm
Steve,

I seem to be the only person currently following your doings.

What IS that a photo of??

Mike B
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 15, 2018, 10:35:13 pm
Steve,

What IS that a photo of??

A minitrix tank car I am tinkering with, I will post pictures soon when I am done with it, still need to finish the light weathering.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 16, 2018, 01:42:12 am
Model Trains Plus Newsletter #79 says that Mr Kato is looking for suggestions for his next Swiss model. I have suggested that a luggage van to round off the EW1 sets would be just the thing.
 
It does not matter if you don't agree with me. It's simple to join the Model Train Plus mailing list and equally simple to send them a message. The more people who send them messages the more they will realise the interest out here. Though by the way the stuff flashes off the shelves there is a clue already.
 
Happy Times,
 
Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 16, 2018, 01:53:19 am
Model Trains Plus Newsletter #79 says that Mr Kato is looking for suggestions for his next Swiss model. I have suggested that a luggage van to round off the EW1 sets would be just the thing.


I started a new thread earlier:

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40812.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40812.0)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 16, 2018, 10:53:25 am
Allegra Power Car Light

Panic over. It turned up in this mornings post! All I have to do is fit it. Shame it was not here earlier when I had the unit apart. I've fitted full length gangways all round and it just couples and just slips round a 6" radius curve. I also fitted the short, EW1 type, couplings and they work a treat and don't hold the coaches at arms length while still making it round 6" radius curves. It seems that if Mr Kato had made the long gangways fractionally shorter, say one rib, they would have suited every situation. I've ordered another two packs of 10 from Plaza Express, they still should have 3 packs by my maths.

It's odd how my Allegras have black short gangways when all the rest are grey, same with the couplings. Odd.

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on March 16, 2018, 07:09:46 pm
Hi,
Pics about Rhb freight cars by Pi.ra.ta on Facebook....the boys told me will be available in June.

Greetings
Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 17, 2018, 07:04:41 am
Pics about Rhb freight cars by Pi.ra.ta on Facebook....the boys told me will be available in June.

Do you have a link, I can't find pirata on FB

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on March 17, 2018, 06:33:06 pm
Hi,
I posted ‘em on ngaugeforum facebook thread...

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on March 17, 2018, 06:58:28 pm
I received my Kato GE 4/4 II yesterday and have to say it is a beautiful model. In my opinion, it is better than the GE 4/4 III. I have now converted it to Nm gauge. Fairly straightforward with no major problems. I will try and take some pics when I have five minutes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 17, 2018, 07:34:02 pm
The RhB flats are here:-

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212771003444776&set=pcb.2410518275640417&type=3&theater&ifg=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212771003444776&set=pcb.2410518275640417&type=3&theater&ifg=1)

And very nice they look too! Just got to make them in quantity now fellas! I'll have 4 to start with. :)

Mike Beard

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 18, 2018, 03:38:34 am
Very neat Steve.

You've got your 631 then. What do you think of it? My two are great, like electric Bulldogs. One ran for three hours on my Test Track at our N Gauge meeting yesterday pulling a 6 coach Glacier Express. Mind you, the kato stock is so light and rolls so sweetly that just a little puff of breath blows them round the circle.

Happy Times,

MIke Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 18, 2018, 03:50:24 am
You've got your 631 then.

Yes, and one of them has already been taken apart and the shell stripped   ;)

Quote
What do you think of it?

Absolutely amazed about the look and the quality of these little gems. Kato have done a superb job.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on March 18, 2018, 08:00:27 am
Last news on Pi.ra.ta
Freight cars are made brass photoetched...NOT PLASTIC
Limited start production  at 50 pieces per type
€ 79,90 each...
Rapido couplers only....
More pics on Facebook


Greetings from Verona

Marco
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on March 18, 2018, 08:29:28 am

Gordon, you suggested shapeways many times now every time someone brings up a model Kato should do next. This is a great example why I do not like and do not suggest shapeways.   

Maybe so, and I agree the tanktainer is the roughest of the items available on shapeways, but nevertheless I have a full RhB freight train in N scale. However I will stop suggesting it if people aren't interested.

.
Shapeways can be smoothed down a little especially when there isn't lots of side detail like the well cars
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 18, 2018, 09:08:29 am
Last news on Pi.ra.ta
Freight cars are made brass photoetched...NOT PLASTIC
Limited start production  at 50 pieces per type
€ 79,90 each...
Rapido couplers only....
More pics on Facebook


Greetings from Verona



Marco

Oh Ouch! That's birthday present and savings style money. Unfortunately they are very common. Fixing on Radido style couplings when the Kato EW1 coaches have no provision for conversion and the current locos are delivered with the Kato coupling may prove to be an error.  :doh:

Oh well, it's only a hobby. :'(

Mike Beard - from a snowy WsM :worried:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 18, 2018, 10:17:36 am
Fixing on Radido style couplings when the Kato EW1 coaches have no provision for conversion and the current locos are delivered with the Kato coupling may prove to be an error.

Mike, if they use standard crapido coupler with the T shank, there are replacement MicroTrains N scale coupler available which fit into the bogies/trucks instead of the crapido coupler. It's a bit of a fiddly job but it will fit the purpose.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 18, 2018, 11:53:10 am
I've just put the pan back on an Allegra pantograph. I was fiddling about until I realised you just put the pan upside down on the workbench push the arm in place.

Fiddly I can do :) It's the saving up bit that's difficult because you never know if you will get a second run. :no:

Marco - can you keep us up to date on the situation with these wagons, ordering etc please.

Mike Beard.

Been to Verona - like it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: marco neri on March 18, 2018, 12:30:16 pm
I've just put the pan back on an Allegra pantograph. I was fiddling about until I realised you just put the pan upside down on the workbench push the arm in place.

Fiddly I can do :) It's the saving up bit that's difficult because you never know if you will get a second run. :no:

Marco - can you keep us up to date on the situation with these wagons, ordering etc please.

Mike Beard.

Hi Mike
I have left the fair (Florence direction :))...
Hi think you can order on their website directly

Marco

Been to Verona - like it.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 19, 2018, 01:22:31 am
Absolutely amazed about the look and the quality of these little gems. Kato have done a superb job.

Fully agree

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 19, 2018, 01:24:01 am

Gordon, you suggested shapeways many times now every time someone brings up a model Kato should do next. This is a great example why I do not like and do not suggest shapeways.   

Maybe so, and I agree the tanktainer is the roughest of the items available on shapeways, but nevertheless I have a full RhB freight train in N scale. However I will stop suggesting it if people aren't interested.

.
Shapeways can be smoothed down a little especially when there isn't lots of side detail like the well cars

Precisely
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 19, 2018, 05:21:12 am
It's the saving up bit that's difficult because you never know if you will get a second run.


I am certain that if when Kato will finally release some freight cars the flat car will be one of them, all we need is just some patience   ;)

Quote
Fiddly I can do :)


Looking at this picture it would probably be better to body mount some MicroTrains coupler, the T shank replacement MTL coupler are too short for this configurations.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/3697-180318093529.jpeg)
picture credit @marco neri (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3697) 

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 19, 2018, 12:26:25 pm
Couplings - again!

Steve said:-

Looking at this picture it would probably be better to body mount some MicroTrains coupler, the T shank replacement MTL coupler are too short for this configurations.

Body mounting couplers will preclude running around 6" radius curves in the hidden areas (Rabbit Warrening!) so that's a non-starter for me. Now if the "Pirates" :) use a similar coupling fitting to that used by Kato on the Glacier Express sets a Kato conversion set is readily available, or should be.

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 19, 2018, 12:46:34 pm
Glacier Express Coaches

I've been painting my GE coach interiors. A good stare at the net pictures reveals all sorts of odd things. The floors or the carpet on the floors looks like a very good imitation of mud colour and the internal walls are a light grey. The 1st class moulded pink colour is wrong, the seats should be red. We fair better in 2nd class as the base blue colour seems right. I've not got any ideas about the inside of the Buffet Car so I've done the 1st class end in "First Class" and the 2nd in "Second Class". Never the twain shall meet!

Having painted the insides I'll admit to buying one populated interior to see how it looks. It looked good so it got updated with paint and put in a 2nd. But hang on a minute. Lets say that the overall cost of the 6 GE coaches is £100. The cheapest set of decent, not Chinese "Never mind, it would never have lived" people but Noch seated figures costs over £50 so suddenly the cost of the set has gone up by 50%, but then if you replace the Rapido type couplers etc.

They look better for people. Of course having done that there are the Bernina Express coaches to be done, a couple of Allegras and 8 EW1 coaches. Do these plastic people breed? I can use the cheap Chinese folks, suitably toned down and with the sprue point removed from the top of their heads in the EW1's where they need be little more than outlines but the Bernina Express coaches are greenhouses like the Glacier Express so they need "real" people and again there are 6 coaches..........

Does anybody have pictures of the insides of 1st and 2nd EW1's so I can approach the colours?

Just a Monday lunchtime thought.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on March 19, 2018, 04:57:57 pm
Does anybody have pictures of the insides of 1st and 2nd EW1's so I can approach the colours?


http://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/CH/RhB_A-EWI.php?lang=en (http://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/CH/RhB_A-EWI.php?lang=en)

http://www.rail-info.ch/RhB/technik/?D=A (http://www.rail-info.ch/RhB/technik/?D=A)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 19, 2018, 08:16:04 pm
RhB Freight Stock - yet to be made by Kato

I've been looking at the state of the freight stock on the RhB. As you would expect the demountables are kept in a very clean condition because they are privately owned and seen on the Swiss streets. Thereafter it becomes a somewhat different story. The slidewalls generally keep clean enough to reasonably see who uses it unless it's the RhB itself when it's fairly disgusting. Every other bit of freight stock is heavily used and weathered. Think British Railways at it's worst. It seems to have got worse since 2003. The photos I took at Arosa yard in 2003 at least show the basic colours not the modified ones seen today.

So it seems weathering is a must. Or a mist of weathering might be better! :)

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 20, 2018, 01:51:05 am
Does anybody have pictures of the insides of 1st and 2nd EW1's so I can approach the colours?


[/quote]

I've got more of my own interior shots elsewhere but here's one I've uploaded:

1st class EW - my all time favourite type of European train seat - like an armchair in your front room! Sadly now virtually extinct (until a few years ago there were still some even on SBB)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/704-200318013708-63130527.jpeg)


.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on March 23, 2018, 02:50:08 pm

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/2832-230318144814.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=63278)
Kato GE4/4 11, wow it's diddy only 80mm long not overly heavy beautiful can t wait for the MDS version
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on March 24, 2018, 12:19:04 am

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/2832-230318144814.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=63278[/url])
Kato GE4/4 11, wow it's diddy only 80mm long not overly heavy beautiful can t wait for the MDS version


I agree the 'cuteness' threw me when I got mine - even though I already had the Shapeways Ge4/4II so I knew what the size would be!

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on March 24, 2018, 07:06:31 am
Ge4/4II
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-070318123340-626681501.jpeg)

There is something very charming about the loco. And it whisks my 8 EW!'s off as though they are not there! Mind you, get yours now as rumours about a second run in May look unfounded.

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on April 06, 2018, 09:58:31 am
No RhB news from Kato for August  :'(

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on April 06, 2018, 10:22:54 am
Glacier Express Add-on re-run still on for May?

According to the "blurb" there is a Green Ge4/4II to come and given the un-modernised state of the mouldings of the EW1 coaches I'd say there is a fair chance of a run of those in green. I'd guess November, just in time for Christmas.

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on April 06, 2018, 11:10:19 am
Glacier Express Add-on re-run still on for May?

still on the list, yes

Quote
According to the "blurb" there is a Green Ge4/4II to come

green as in 'as delivered with round head lights' or green as in TRAVECO ?

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on April 06, 2018, 12:33:17 pm
No, the Ge4/4II was advertised in green as built and given the way the red one shot off the shelves there is some encouragement there. I do suspect, however, that pretty much all of Mr Katos products rush off the shelf so that's nothing to go by.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on April 06, 2018, 02:39:19 pm
Being all the red RhB around i would have preffered different rolling stock instead of green locos
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on April 07, 2018, 01:35:13 am
Being all the red RhB around i would have preffered different rolling stock instead of green locos

I can't work out why Kato thought a green Ge4/4II would be a good idea, unless they were thinking of following it with a Croc. The problem is most enthusiasts (AFAIK) now relate more to the red era .

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on April 09, 2018, 09:48:59 am
I couldn't help myself, I needed to ask so I sent MDS-Modell an email about the steps on their Ge 4/4 II and if these will be available as a spare part.

I got an email back from Gunnar on the weekend and he told me these steps are not available as a spare part as they are molded as part of the shell (frankly, I doubt that) but he also used the email as a sales speech and listed all the points he thinks his model is better than the competition's one  ;)  (well, it has to be 'better', it also costs '2.5 times more')

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on April 09, 2018, 11:58:24 am
Only MDS can really judge their model of the Ge4/4II as nobody else has one.

On your favourite selling site somebody is selling what look like full body decals for the Ge4/4II for different advertising liveries.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on April 09, 2018, 12:06:16 pm
somebody is selling what look like full body decals for the Ge4/4II for different advertising liveries

Same as this one (https://www.rhbmodellbahn.com/decals) ?

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on April 09, 2018, 12:07:53 pm
Only MDS can really judge their model of the Ge4/4II as nobody else has one.

Don't worry Mike, it will be available in 30 days !   :laugh3:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on April 09, 2018, 12:12:28 pm
somebody is selling what look like full body decals for the Ge4/4II for different advertising liveries

Same as this one (https://www.rhbmodellbahn.com/decals) ?

steve

Yes, that's the guy,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on April 09, 2018, 12:15:24 pm
Only MDS can really judge their model of the Ge4/4II as nobody else has one.

Don't worry Mike, it will be available in 30 days !   :laugh3:

steve

30 Days. Beginning from when I wonder?  :dighole: I'll be dead before I they arrive!!

Mike
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on April 10, 2018, 06:03:59 pm
Kato 249mm radius curve on a Kato based Swiss Modular Layout beginnings

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/6079-100418175541.jpeg)

Right, it's got "Kato" and its got "Swiss" in the title so it should be OK!

It's a long, involved, explaination and it really needs its own mini-section of the Forum but it is about Swiss RhB Railways running on Kato track.

Mike Beard :)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: daffy on April 10, 2018, 07:05:35 pm
Looks promising Mike. :thumbsup:

Might I suggest it would be well to start a new thread in the 'Layout Construction' section of the Forum, as per the usual practice here.

A good title for the thread would be part of what you have already stated:

Quote
Kato based Swiss Modular Layout beginnings

- or maybe you have a more catchy name for it you could use. :hmmm:

I look forward to seeing how your layout progresses.

 :beers:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on April 11, 2018, 04:14:42 am
Daffy,

Kato Swiss Modular Layout seems good to me. I'm an engineer, I do dry. :worried:

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on May 10, 2018, 04:54:39 am
Still no Kato RhB freight cars but check this out (http://www.katomodels.com/product/poster/files/2018_9b.jpg), a new Ge 4/4 II 622 paint variation (the most obvious one) and more EW Is (my Japanese is not all that good, as in none, so I do not yet understand what else is new)  ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on May 10, 2018, 07:59:39 am
While I appreciate that Kato is releasing another RhB Loco / Passenger car set and a re run of the EW Is and the Allegra (yes, I did place my orders already), I would rather spend even more money on RhB Freight car sets or RhB Loco / Freight car sets. Does someone know Mr. Kato's email address ?   ;)

steve 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on May 10, 2018, 08:55:43 am
Checked Hobby search japan and they have the 622 for reserve, will contact traintrax later to ask him as well . Locos are great, dont need anymore coaches, have 2 Allegra units already. Come on mr Kato freight stock pleassssse
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on May 10, 2018, 09:26:32 am
Keith at Traintrax is checking up but thinks 622 will be in a set with 3 EW1 coaches, will let us know in the next couple of days.
I will order one if its only 3 extra coaches. Only gojng to have one sound equipped GE4/4 11 from MDS
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on May 10, 2018, 01:02:29 pm
Keith at Traintrax is checking up but thinks 622 will be in a set with 3 EW1 coaches, will let us know in the next couple of days.
I will order one if its only 3 extra coaches. Only gojng to have one sound equipped GE4/4 11 from MDS

Yes, Kato #10-1514 is a set, 1x Ge 4/4 II #622 plus 2 EW Is. (1x 1st class car: A 1244, 1x 2nd class car: B 2344)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on May 11, 2018, 07:55:04 am
Only one day after the announcement the Ge 4/4 II #622 Hakone Tozan set is already best seller on 1st position on the Hobbysearch website. These RhB models (or as Hobbysearch translates it, "race tissue railway" models) must be like printing money for Kato. C'mon Kato, freight cars, we want freight cars. Maybe we should start to ask TOMIX to jump on as well ? Kato can do the locomotives and passenger car models and TOMIX can start printing money with RhB freight cars.

steve

   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on May 15, 2018, 08:06:14 pm
RhB 622 in "Chinese Wrapping"

If you look here:-

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10536266/30/1 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10536266/30/1)

you'll see it all in glorious Technicolor! In fact the set is one loco and an EW1 First and Second and at the same time Kato are re-running the intial EW1 set of four coaches.  This month brings the Glacier Express Add-ons - already paid for - so I'm looking to November for any new RhB moulds from Kato. I'm not anticipating a new loco but I think there might be new rolling stock and don't forget Mr Katos earlier promise of green Ge4/4II's and green EW1 coaches; that has yet to happen.

As to it being "Money for Old Rope", well yes but it's very pretty rope!

Happy Modeling,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on May 25, 2018, 10:39:49 am
Kato GlacierExpress Add-On sets

Hi Folks,

Well according to Mr Katos Production Schedule these are out today, just in time for the UK Bank Holiday!

Now I'll find out just how many "Forward Orders", paid for yonks ago, will actually mature into packages on my doorstep.  :worried:

BTW   Hobbysearch have taken forward orders for EW1 bogies and those little bits of phosphur bronze in loco couplings that worry me so much!  :dunce:

Cheers,

Mike
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on May 26, 2018, 11:51:05 pm
and those little bits of phosphur bronze in loco couplings that worry me so much! 

Hate the design. Lost one at my MR club the other night during fitting of Kato auto coupler to MDS loco (yes - MDS have used the same design)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on May 31, 2018, 05:47:16 am
Just got the monthly newsletter from ModelTrainPlus (https://www.modeltrainplus.net/?mc_cid=e9eddf0773&mc_eid=b907335254) in Japan with good news (I guess).


Swiss Rolling Stock
I mentioned you to submit some suggestion to KATO for future Swiss prototype on last issue of this newsletter.  Thank you for those who send me a mail or posted your favor on Facebook.  I organized the result and already handed over to KATO for their future planning.  They are also very positive to keep releasing related products, so let's hope they release the item.
(copy from the newsletter)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on May 31, 2018, 09:09:04 am
Just got the monthly newsletter from ModelTrainPlus (https://www.modeltrainplus.net/?mc_cid=e9eddf0773&mc_eid=b907335254) in Japan with good news (I guess).


Swiss Rolling Stock
I mentioned you to submit some suggestion to KATO for future Swiss prototype on last issue of this newsletter.  Thank you for those who send me a mail or posted your favor on Facebook.  I organized the result and already handed over to KATO for their future planning.  They are also very positive to keep releasing related products, so let's hope they release the item.
(copy from the newsletter)

steve

I got that too. I think that the Ge4/4II + EW1 coaches were a Noch effort and I suspect the sales have given Kato a nice shock. Given the amount of new product they make for Japan a little bit of Swiss is just a corner job so we can only hope that next year sees a new moulding or two. I suspect the green Ge4/4II and coaches may fade into folklaw.

Of course in the meantime Hornby could add some RhB to their Arnold range, isn't that a nice new rumour! Bit like MDS wagons.  :laugh:

Happy Modelling,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on May 31, 2018, 09:56:15 am
I think that the Ge4/4II + EW1 coaches were a Noch effort

No. The Hakone Tozan Railway have a train they call Allegra (Type 3000) and one (Type 2000) which shows the Glacier Express livery (Tomix and Modemo models available). This new Kato set is for the Japanese market (and all the reservations from overseas and NOCH are just the icing on top)   :)

I assume there will be NOCH special Ge 4/4 II models announced soon as well (which will again cost an arm and a leg and will only be available thru NOCH and not from Japan direct for an affordable price)  :veryangry:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 16, 2018, 10:15:23 am
Glacier Express Spares

Hobbysearch have just jogged me and I've bought two sets of coach bogies from them. 8)

With the surge in GE Add-On sets I'd remind you all that the close coupling option is in short supply. >:(

In the wrong place but who are MDS Modells? :no:

Happy Skiing,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on June 19, 2018, 09:17:02 am
With the surge in GE Add-On sets I'd remind you all that the close coupling option is in short supply. >:(

I got my sets today as well. Is this really a new run or just old stock ? Why do they come with crapido couplers ? That is a bit disappointing !  :scowl:  But, it will help me to make the decision a bit easier to go all the way with Microtrains couplers on engines and freight cars and at both ends of passenger trains and couple passenger cars in between with Kato/Roundhouse dummy knuckle couplers.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 19, 2018, 09:37:30 am
I did warn you about the couplers. Got mine from Osborns in Bideford. Just added to the expense! :'(

My extra set is due tomorrow. Payment of £26 to the Post Office. That's £8 to the PO and £18 to HMRC which indicates a package worth of £90. I was going to say something very rude there. In future only Hobbysearch and Plaza Japan - "They Honest". This round of buying the GE add-Ons has been a fiscal disaster. I'd have been better of standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes. :censored:

It's all experience, I could do without. >:(  :dunce:

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on June 19, 2018, 10:05:58 am
and couple passenger cars in between with Kato/Roundhouse dummy knuckle couplers

Well, after further inspection of the trucks and how the coupler box is designed, that conversion to dummy knuckle coupler wont be that easy  :veryangry:  (It's a hobby, why do I get angry ?  :dunce: )

Time for some serious thinking what to do...  :hmmm:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 19, 2018, 10:27:08 am
Using the Kato Coupler Conversion Set you can still use the long corridor connectors if you have VERY large radius curves. I have opted for short ones at each end of the set and then short-long between intermediate coaches. I've even managed that on the Bernina Express cars and on the Allegra sets. The EW1 coaches are as delivered because I have yet to deceide what formation to run them in and to a large extent that is dependant on on Kato's new product plans. I just hope they see the sense of new baggage cars. Incidentally there seem to be two forms of Kato push connect couplers for locos, a short one and a longer one. I used the short ones on my Allegra sets to good effect.

Regarding rebodying the Ge4/4III locos, I bought from Plaza Express the "Glacier on Tour" body at great expense but your right I cannot see any of the Noch bodies becoming available as spares unless by accident or the UNESCO Landwasser Viaduct body. Far too many 644 bodies about for my liking. It only takes changing the printing. Bachmann are the same with BR steam locos. Same numbers on every iteration!

Hey Ho - back to sleep, :sleep:

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on June 19, 2018, 10:40:33 am
Using the Kato Coupler Conversion Set

Yeah, I am not a big fan of these couplers, too much force involved to couple or uncouple in my opinion.

Quote
Regarding rebodying the Ge4/4III locos, I bought from Plaza Express the "Glacier on Tour" body at great expense

Same here, was the only way for me to get one, was too late to the party. Same with the UNESCO one, looking for a loco or at least a shell.

Quote
Hey Ho - back to sleep, :sleep:

You or me ? Don't you have lunch time soon ?  :)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 19, 2018, 11:18:08 am
Lunch

We have a large dog, an "Italiano Spinone" who goes foraging.  Suffice to say that when a 45kg dog gets ill everybody pays attention all night so little sleep for two nights.  :worried:

Cheers,

Mike B.  :sleep:

 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on June 21, 2018, 07:22:20 am
It's time to get some "Preiserlein" (copies, can't afford the real deal) to fill the Glacier Express wagons. Do these people look like Japanese Tourists to you ?  ;)  (no racism intended)

100 sitting passengers, colored (https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Stk-1-160-Figuren-Modellbahnanlage-Spur-N-Zubehor-sitzend-Menschen-Fahrgaste/252756517843?hash=item3ad97663d3:g:d94AAOSwl0VbFCR~)

steve

(Mike, good luck with Alfie today, fingers crossed)
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 21, 2018, 08:17:39 am
N Gauge People

My life is full of cheap Chinese people. There are some that should not have survived "birth" at all and they are mercilessly consigned to the plastic recycling. :worried:  What is left is usually a ghastly luminous colour that is reminiscent of the '70's! Therefore on with the specs and tone them down a lot. One sitting person fills 2 seats, which is a mercy. I've also bought off eBay better little people to intersperse them with.  :o

Even given the huge amount of open glass the origin of the people does not show so you wonder just how little you can get away with.  :)

Buy the bulk people from China, not locally. There only seems to be one set of moulds and they are wearing! ???

(Alfie is happier this morning) :confused2: ;)

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: David Dawes on June 22, 2018, 06:26:41 pm
Just a note to say i have put all my Kato RhB on ebay
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 22, 2018, 06:50:22 pm
ModelMasters

ModelMasters in WsM is closing after many years. They have little to intice the RhB modeller except for a Ge4/4III #644 and two GE coaches for about £80. Not a great price but you do know it's in the UK.  :hmmm:

I bought all their Presier sitting figures - unpainted. They do have a couple of boxes of painted people at £60 a go so that would be £30. Anyway I can populate all my passenger trains now, I think!  :)

Sorry to see David Dawes go. I hope you find a scale/gauge relationship your happier with.  :wave:

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on June 24, 2018, 04:54:31 am
Dear Mr. Kato,

how are you ? Are you busy designing these ? (http://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/a1806220951704) Please.
Ivory/blue, ivory/red and ivory/green and you already sold three sets and 3 crocs   ;)

Thank you.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 24, 2018, 07:57:37 am
My Dear Mr Kato,

With respect don't listen to my friend "Antipodean Steve." (BTW I've still got the spare 644 body if you want  it?)   :)
 
The way forward is for you to buy the MDS-Modell Slidewall Van tooling and bring it out next year together with the 1980's decorated, pantograph-less luggage van and a handfull of basic wagons, perhaps on your existing 4 wheeled chassis if you cannot afford to do the more modern bogie ones.  ;)

As an aside I'm wondering if the two coaches that will come with the decorated Ge4/4II in November - just in time for Christmas - will be in 1980's or current livery? There is a thought.  :o

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on June 26, 2018, 09:08:39 am
How do you guys remove the trucks (bogies) from the Glacier Express wagons without destroying anything ? :hmmm:  :worried:  Is there a trick how to remove them ?   :help:  ???  Don't worry, I haven't damaged anything yet, I gave up before that happened   :)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 26, 2018, 10:09:27 am
If you look at the clue sheet that comes with the Add-On unit you'll see that you over-rotate the trucks and they pop out.

I'd recommend however that you remove the underframes from the bodies before you do that which is done by just sliding a knife edge along to disengage the holding tags. While the whole coach is apart it's a good idea to look at the photographs on the web for internal colours and splash a bit of paint about. The First Class carpet, as is Tourist, is a mud colour, dark mud by the look of it while the First seats are dark blue not the colour moulded and the tabletops white. The toilet and walls seem to be light grey. The Tourist Class seats are a dark red while I painted any tabletops in there brown. As an aside I was greived at how down at heel some of the interiors looked, getting on towards BR at its worst and certainly not a Premium Service coach.

Hope this helps,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on June 26, 2018, 10:26:04 am
If you look at the clue sheet that comes with the Add-On unit you'll see that you over-rotate the trucks and they pop out.

RTFM !!  hahaha   :dunce:

Quote
I'd recommend however that you remove the underframes from the bodies before you do that

I have all that done already, thanks, I just wasn't sure how to remove the trucks. Didn't read the manual (why would I ?)   ;D

Cars will all get weathered, especially the roofs (VERY sun bleached on some of these cars) and the trucks/wheels.

I designed little white decals for the head rests and the table cloths (similar to what's available from AB-Modell I think) and will paint everything else accordingly.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on June 26, 2018, 10:57:10 am
I painted the head rests white. Not difficult and no masking tape used. It's difficult to discern when it's full of folks having a good time!

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on July 02, 2018, 11:16:36 am
Onward with the Mike & Steve Show!

The Really Good News is that Alfie is better for which I give a BIG Thank You! I even paid the credit card bill today.  :)

Moving onto Kato those nice people at Hobbysearch sent me two pairs of GE trucks c/w Arnold Couplers in a box big enoiugh to raise a family in and the set of close couplers I bought through eBay for £6.75 also arrived so nothing outstanding now until November except finish populating the first GE set and start populating the second. I think the people will be more expensive than the coaches! :o

Happy Muddling,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 02, 2018, 01:29:22 pm
Kato / Roundhouse Close Coupler Set for Glacier Express (Short Coupler Set)

Which close coupler are in this set ? With my Allegra I got four close coupler delivered, one pair of black ones and one pair of dark gray ones which are much shorter than the black ones. Are the black ones in the Close Coupler Set or the shorter, dark gray ones ?


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/6270-020718131834.jpeg)
Test with Kato / Roundhouse dummy knuckle coupler, too close.

Steve

Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 02, 2018, 01:35:45 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/6270-020718133407.jpeg)
Kato / Roundhouse dummy knuckle coupler.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on July 02, 2018, 02:13:28 pm
Roundhouse Dummy Coupler.

I thought about this and on a permanently erected layout the chances of taking a GE apart are virtually zero so I'm happy to adopt the Kato solution of "Click" couplers so you get this on a straight line:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-110318180648-62831595.jpeg)

and this on a 150mm "corner" which are quite useful behind the scenes and it's amazing what will go round them too:-

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/6079-110318180651-6283328.jpeg)

Now I'm not saying that it's perfect visually but it works for me. My semi-peopled is GE set up like this as are both "Allegra" units as are my Bernina coaches. The EW1' remain as supplied but that is because I'm not sure about what their formations will be. Having had a delivery today I'm going to set up my second GE set. For now I'm going to leave the question of coupling between coach sets and locos and/or EMU's until MDS Modell deign to bring out their bogie vans.  :hmmm:

I have been thinking about 4 wheeled wagons and I've thought you could use Kato 4 wheelers as a first compromise.  :uneasy:

However what is outstanding is the fully finished RhB Luggage Van. Perhaps you and I could sponsor one through Rapido Trains?

Cheers,

Mike Beard. 
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on July 02, 2018, 03:38:54 pm
Update

And now my second GE set is fitted with Kato semi-permanent couplings and short/long corridor connections. It's a shame that Kato did not make their corridor bellows flexible like Dapol.

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 02, 2018, 10:33:50 pm
So which one is it ? Which one of these two close coupler are included in the Kato / Roundhouse Close Coupler Set for the Glacier Express wagons ?

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/6270-020718223125.jpeg)

It's not a quiz, I am asking for advise, thank you.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on July 02, 2018, 11:04:39 pm
Kato Couplers

The one on the right seems to be the one to use on coaches, the one on the left looks like a loco one to me.

I think there is an intermediate one for the Allegra units and I think there is a "scale" coupler as well.

To convert a full 6 coach GE you need 12 couplers but only 10 if your going to top and tail the set with knuckle couplers. I don't know about the Bernina or EW1 sets as I've not dropped out either sets truck and taken it to pieces but I think the Allegra units will take a knuckle coupler as a direct replacement.

Hope this helps,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 03, 2018, 02:19:49 am
Kato Couplers

The one on the right seems to be the one to use on coaches, the one on the left looks like a loco one to me.

Hope this helps


Sorry, doesn't help. I would only like to know which one of these two couplers are in the Close Couple Set ? The long ones or the short ones ? The one on the left or the one on the right ? (these are the two types supplied with the Allegra)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/6270-020718223125.jpeg)

Who can answer this question ? Thank you.

I tested two Glacier Express wagons with both of these coupler and the shorter one is more what I am after to couple them together. If the Close Coupler Set comes with the longer shank coupler I do not need to bother and buy a set or two and need to go on the hunt for the shorter shank version.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on July 03, 2018, 05:09:48 am
Right, Deep Breath.

The one on the right is closest.

In the conversion set you get a pair of long shank couplers to convert a loco, 6 pairs of short couplers to convert 6 coaches and 12 replacement short bellows, of which I used 6.

If you want to borrow a set email me or message me through this site. I have two sets and you can replace the one you borrow at your leasure.

Hope this helps,

Mike.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 03, 2018, 05:52:44 am
Right, Deep Breath.

Better ? - Better !   :D

Quote
Hope this helps

Yes, thanks Mike. And thanks for the offer but I will place an order with Hobbysearch as soon as they become available again and go from there.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 10, 2018, 01:54:05 am
The reservation is open @ Hobbysearch, Japan for mid July delivery. Kato Ge 4/4 III and 2 Glacier Express passenger cars (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10202254). Hey Kato, that would have been a good opportunity to put an UNESCO one in this set   :scowl:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on July 10, 2018, 04:48:26 am
Yep, that's got to be the most boring livery and there are so many of them. There should be a law about changing graphics on each iteration!

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on July 10, 2018, 11:24:09 pm
Quote
Who can answer this question ? Thank you.

I tested two Glacier Express wagons with both of these coupler and the shorter one is more what I am after to couple them together. If the Close Coupler Set comes with the longer shank coupler I do not need to bother and buy a set or two and need to go on the hunt for the shorter shank version.

steve

The pack (I have about 5 packs still being gradually to to use) mainly contains the shorter coupling as it's the one you are supposed to use with the GEX coaches.

Note that the shorter one can be used on locos anyway as they still work down to the tighter radii

.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 10, 2018, 11:38:30 pm
The pack mainly contains the shorter coupling as it's the one you are supposed to use with the GEX coaches.

Thanks Gordon   :beers:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on July 11, 2018, 12:17:44 am
DM Toys were advertising the packs a few days ago
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 11, 2018, 12:26:52 am
DM Toys were advertising the packs a few days ago

I am trying to get the short coupler from Japan as a locomotive spare part. I already bought a heap of short bellows so all I need now are the short couplers only. Between the locomotives and the GEX and other cars I will use MicroTrains coupler. Especially on freight cars so I can easier shunt them, playing trains without brute force to couple or uncouple them   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 11, 2018, 05:05:44 am
How cool would that be to see something similar from Kato for Christmas 2018 ?

Bemo starter set # 7358151 freight train (https://www.modellbahnunion.com/Narrow-gauge/starter-set-Gueterzug-RhB-Digital-H0m.htm?shop=dm-toys-en&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=Bemo-7358151&p=835). I think Bemo did a fine job with this set at a very attractive price.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 11, 2018, 09:01:27 am
Just thinking out loud here but I am interested in what you guys think about this so please do not hesitate and let me know.

Kato started the whole RhB "thing" with the Ge 4/4 III and the Glacier Express passenger cars. Target market was the Japanese tourist who traveled the Glacier Express in Switzerland to have a model at home to remember the great journey. We then also got the Allegra and the panorama cars to build the BEX, another tourist attraction. Suddenly a lot of modeller in Europe did jump onto these models as well and the EW Is were next followed by the Ge 4/4 II, a locomotive model that is also pulling the GEX. To model the GEX all the way from Zermatt to St. Moritz and back we would need a MGB HGe 4/4 II as well.

Could that be the next model in the pipeline @ Kato, a HGe 4/4 II (https://c.pxhere.com/photos/d6/dd/glacier_express_matterhorn_gotthard_bahn_mgb_switzerland_valais_lax_railway_station_transit-1205218.jpg!d) ? (I wouldn't mind.)

steve
   
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on July 15, 2018, 12:07:03 am
Partic
How cool would that be to see something similar from Kato for Christmas 2018 ?

Bemo starter set # 7358151 freight train (https://www.modellbahnunion.com/Narrow-gauge/starter-set-Gueterzug-RhB-Digital-H0m.htm?shop=dm-toys-en&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=Bemo-7358151&p=835). I think Bemo did a fine job with this set at a very attractive price.

steve

I agree, particularly as, unusually with model 'train sets' and 'starter sets', the full size real thing version of this type of train in full runs every morning from Chur
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on July 15, 2018, 04:07:19 am
Mr Kato and his Merry Band.

I somehow think we have our "Christmas Present" already in the form of a loco and two carriages released in mid November to be ready in Europe for Christmas.  :)

The most important news is that the N Gauge Society have taken delivery of a new run of more modern bogies, just right for thrusting under N Gauge wagons with 1960's bogies.  :-\  I don't know about fitting MicroTrains couplings. :worried:

Cheers,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on July 15, 2018, 04:22:28 am
I somehow think we have our "Christmas Present" already in the form of a loco and two carriages released in mid November to be ready in Europe for Christmas.

Holly cow, you're up early   ;)

The loco and two carriages are scheduled for September delivery. There will be something else for December. A green Ge 4/4 II with green carriages ? A blue "Arosa" Allegra ? The "Integral" Ge 4/4 III ? Dream on...   ;)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on July 15, 2018, 04:29:00 am
Cows have nothing to do with it. I'm just at that stage where I cannot sleep so I have a small stash of sleeping pills for circumstances like this. Hateful, absolutely hateful. Mercifully I don't have to do to work which means I cannot take my frustrations on unfortunate suppliers any more.

Mike.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 03, 2018, 10:42:27 pm
The Kato news are out, disappointing ! No new RhB or MGB announcements.  :worried: :confused1: :(

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on August 05, 2018, 03:09:07 pm
Worse than that I cannot find the Ge4/4II and two EW1 coaches that was scheduled before!

May pack it upif that's the level of support Kato gives its customers.

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 05, 2018, 08:50:15 pm
Worse than that I cannot find the Ge4/4II and two EW1 coaches that was scheduled before!

It is not released yet. Will be sometimes in September.

Steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on August 05, 2018, 09:16:25 pm
Yes, I found it after I shot my mouth off.

However, perhaps in 2019 Kato may give the RhB the same support it has given it in 2018 in the form of the Ge4/4II and the EW1 coaches. I'm sure they will be rewarded. Of course there is the "Green" issue still to be dealt with and perhaps that is for 2019.

Happy Times,

Mike Beard.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on August 14, 2018, 11:27:59 pm
Hey Mr. Kato, how about this one ? The newest livery on the RhB.

RhB Ge II 4/4 #623 I (http://cdn.ipernity.com/200/52/42/47145242.f1cc706d.800.jpg)

RhB Ge II 4/4 #623 II (http://cdn.ipernity.com/200/52/44/47145244.9db5942e.800.jpg)




steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Gordon on September 04, 2018, 12:03:09 am
Hey Mr. Kato, how about this one ? The newest livery on the RhB.

RhB Ge II 4/4 #623 I ([url]http://cdn.ipernity.com/200/52/42/47145242.f1cc706d.800.jpg[/url])

RhB Ge II 4/4 #623 II ([url]http://cdn.ipernity.com/200/52/44/47145244.9db5942e.800.jpg[/url])


Yes, RhB actually managed to put it on the GEX this summer too, but failed (at least when I was there the other  week) to put 631 on the GEX




steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on September 07, 2018, 12:22:00 pm
The Kato news are out since yesterday, beside a duo pack of DE 10, there's nothing new for January 2019   :worried:  :'(

(http://www.katomodels.com/product/poster/files/2019_1.jpg)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on September 11, 2018, 06:28:20 am
Newest livery !   I :heart2: RhB

RhB Ge 4/4 II #620 I (http://cdn.ipernity.com/200/98/02/47289802.55cd0585.800.jpg)

RhB Ge 4/4 II #620 II (http://cdn.ipernity.com/200/98/18/47289818.55b0de31.800.jpg)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on September 11, 2018, 07:13:51 pm
UNESCO

Isn't life interesting? I've just looked at eBay for RhB Glacier Express and suddenly there are UNESCO sets available at a not super-high price, about £240 basic. However I'm not over sure Mr Kato won't rerun the whole range of GE4/4 III locos once the agreement time with Mr Noch has passed.

I'm still waiting to see if 2019 will bring freight cars. Tankers and ballast wagons I have but it looks like I'm going to have to scratch build the bogie flats in bulk.

The layout planning is done "Filet of Filisur" and now I have to design the baseboards around the trackplan. Um. And it all has to fit into the rear of my ancient C-RV.

Cheers,

Mike Beard
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on September 11, 2018, 09:17:28 pm
Not sure about the ones asking £450 - £550 for a set though!!!
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on September 11, 2018, 09:25:32 pm
Not sure about the ones asking £450 - £550 for a set though!!!

Especially when you see what that set initially did cost in Japan when it was 1st released. CRAZY !!!

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10254316 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10254316)

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on September 11, 2018, 09:27:57 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on September 11, 2018, 09:44:52 pm
Yes.

They changed the system here in NZ how they charge for GST and duty. It's still NZ $60, the minimum they need to be able to charge before they will send a bill. But, they added a 5% duty on toys. So what was once roughly NZ $400 including shipping cost is now down to NZ $275. And to make it worth for the tax department they also charge a :censored: Bio Security Levy of NZ $49 on top of the GST and duty bill.
In other words, as soon as a parcel value goes over the NZ $275 threshold, we now receive automatically an invoice of a minimum of NZ $112 !!  :veryangry: (or in your money £56)  Nice ay ? 

Edit: If you say but wait a minute, $60 plus $49 does not equal $112 ! Well, that's because they also charge GST on the  :censored: Bio Security Levy !  It's a :censored: win-win for them.   :veryangry:

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on September 14, 2018, 07:56:07 pm
We pay on £15 upwards - stop- moaning and man up!  :laugh3:  :claphappy:

QUESTION

What is the width of the Kato Filisur platform between roads 2 and 3?

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.

It's Friday Night and I'm full of Pork Ribs and New Zealand white wine.  :pint:  :tv:  :rain:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Metroman64 on September 14, 2018, 08:36:12 pm
We pay on £15 upwards - stop- moaning and man up!  :laugh3:  :claphappy:


Not if you buy through Zenmarket
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on September 14, 2018, 11:19:28 pm
We pay on £15 upwards - stop- moaning and man up!  :laugh3:  :claphappy:

Sure, it's always practical when asking for a favor to start with an insult   ;) :dunce: :angel:

Quote
QUESTION

What is the width of the Kato Filisur platform between roads 2 and 3?

The Kato platform width is compatible with Uni-track double track spacing 49.5mm according to the Hobbysearch website.

steve
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: Mike Beard on September 15, 2018, 04:05:07 am
Insulting Reply!

I've been moaning about the costs added to Personal Imports on the N Gauge i/o site and I got hammered for my troubles so it's rather amusing to see somebody else in a much better position complain. :)

Back to the question.

Yes, I picked up on that but I was rather hoping that somebody might have actually bought one so they could measure it. I was thinking of using it with Peco track - as you know - between tracks 2 and 3 in "Fillet of Filisur"!

Cheers,

Mike.  :dighole:
Title: Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
Post by: retica on September 15, 2018, 04:58:10 am
I was rather hoping that somebody might have actually bought one so they could measure it.
Mike.  :dighole:

Sorry Mike, can't help you here, I didn't buy one and have no intention to.

steve