Newbie help

[Mikeedwilson]

Hi there,

I'm new to the N gauge scene and faced with more options than I know what to do with, was hoping someone could recommend some items for me. My late father started putting together a set based on n-gauge and has 2 locos DCC ready (need the chips!). I plan to finish it all for him, and have come up against some confusion. The plan was to run 2 maybe 3 loops of track with a couple of sidings. Is it best to have a separate DC power unit for each loop, go DCC and have the one controller, or something different?

I've currently got a Peco starter set of track so was just going to buy one controller and run from there, but figured it'd be better to get something that can control my final plan!

[Newportnobby]

Hello Mike, and welcome to the forum

For a first question you've set a real poser as some will say DCC and some might say DC. If you stay with DC you'll need control for each loop e.g. twin loops will require a twin track controller if you want to run trains simultaneously, 3 loops = 3 controls. They don't have to be separate units but do need to have separate windings within the case. For 3 loops and a branch line I'd recommend a Morley Vortrack N gauge controller. There is absolutely no reason why you can't wire up the layout for both analogue and digital but one of the biggest expenses is control so best to decide now rather than start with one kind and then move to another, but I know half of nothing about DCC.
Other than that, this guide might be of help............
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35556.0

[Mikeedwilson]

Hello 

Ah that's great thank you! I'll have a read through that tonight on my way home.

I hadn't thought about analogue and digital together. I'm guessing DCC gives greater control and precise positioning, but surely that could be achieved with DC too? My scenario (aware this may sound obvious!) being that if you wanted to bring a loco from Loop 2 to Loop 1, is there a 'dead point' at the points, or does one controller take precedence over the other?

[Newportnobby]

Analogue will involve more wiring as, ideally, you need each controller to be able to operate any piece of track and this has to be done via switches. Then you can drive a loco from one loop to another without it stalling anywhere (it's called basic Cab Control). However, you don't need as many power feeds as you do with digital. For digital I believe every piece of track has to have a power supply from a 'power bus' under the baseboard as you then drive the train as opposed to driving the track.
I wasn't suggesting you run DC and DCC together, more that by wiring for DCC you could run DC and then upgrade to DCC as the wiring is already in place. It is a fallacy that only 2 wires are required for DCC, I think, although it is possible at very basic stage.

[Mikeedwilson]

Ah ok I'm with you now. As I have a completely blank canvas I may as well get the wiring sorted for DCC as I think that was the original plan. Trying to do it from various scraps of paper that I keep finding, but I may just go with what my talents can create and make life a bit easier haha!

[keithbythe sea]

Hi Mike, welcome.

I'm new to DCC and have a fairly basic layout that I managed to get working at my first attempt thanks to this web site:

http://brian-lambert.co.uk/

He explains everything very well together with basic diagrams.

There is also lots of help here on the forum, use the search facility as the help and advice can be spread over many different threads.

If it helps, I chose DCC because I was starting from scratch so it will hopefully minimise future upgrade costs as my layouts get more complicated.

[Mikeedwilson]

Excellent thank you!

[Sprintex]

However, you don't need as many power feeds as you do with digital. For digital I believe every piece of track has to have a power supply from a 'power bus' under the baseboard as you then drive the train as opposed to driving the track.

Just to clarify this DCC requires no more power feeds than DC. Many people DO provide power-feeds to every piece of track whether DC or DCC, especially on layouts that will be exhibited, just as a "belt and braces" approach to not losing power across rail-joiners due to dirt ingress over time. However, you can happily run a DCC layout just the same as DC with just two wires to the track and no need for a power-bus, this is how the Digital Train Sets come after all


Paul

[bluedepot]

I would probably go for dcc to avoid wiring all the isolating sections and switches plus you can add lights and sound if you wanted to

good luck with it


Tim

[Bealman]

G'day from Australia, Mike, and welcome to the NGF! 

I like the idea of finishing off what your father started. 

[Ian Bowden]

If you go DCC you can run JMRI software on a PC with a fairly cheap Sprog interface, this can lead on to automating operations and other exotic ideas.
I started with DCC and bought a Gaugemaster DC02 controller. Since then I have switched to the Roco Z21  controller as I very quickly started down the slippery slope of SOUND.
DCC chipped locos will work with DC controllers but never the other way round - the motor wouldn't last 30 seconds but you would get an interesting smoke effect. The other warning for anyone contemplating DCC the decoders don't like electronic track cleaners the sudden burst of power used to burn off the dirt blows the decoder.

[Howlin`baz]

Hi.               The best advise I can offer is to find a local N Gauge (or even 00) group/club, and ask them to explain things, and show you what they have done.   DCC is simpler to wire, and yes it does give better control and the option of running the whole layout - both trains - with one controller.   Yes it is more expensive to start with, but  DCC will work out pricing comparatively as you go along as there is little need to wire and switch dead sections to hold your locos.   Starting is the ideal time to choose DCC as you can grow into your system little by little as funds allow.   Two loco chips should come in under £40.   Peco do a useful booklet on "Wiring your layout".    DCC does not require any technical expertise, and what you will need to now you will pick up as you go along, but everything becomes easier with other operators to talk to.   They will have made all the mistakes you are likely to make, and can offer other solutions.

Don`t be frightened to try things out, it is difficult to damage DCC unless you do something really foolish.   Worst case scenario - you find a short circuit on your track.   This will immediately cause your DCC controller to shut down, so disconnect until you find the fault.   Once you start running, you will get much more enjoyment out of driving your locos - not the track.

Good luck.   I am sure you will enjoy your efforts whichever you choose.

[georgehgv]

Hi.               The best advise I can offer is to find a local N Gauge (or even 00) group/club, and ask them to explain things, and show you what they have done.   DCC is simpler to wire, and yes it does give better control and the option of running the whole layout - both trains - with one controller.   Yes it is more expensive to start with, but  DCC will work out pricing comparatively as you go along as there is little need to wire and switch dead sections to hold your locos.   Starting is the ideal time to choose DCC as you can grow into your system little by little as funds allow.   Two loco chips should come in under £40.   Peco do a useful booklet on "Wiring your layout".    DCC does not require any technical expertise, and what you will need to now you will pick up as you go along, but everything becomes easier with other operators to talk to.   They will have made all the mistakes you are likely to make, and can offer other solutions.

Don`t be frightened to try things out, it is difficult to damage DCC unless you do something really foolish.   Worst case scenario - you find a short circuit on your track.   This will immediately cause your DCC controller to shut down, so disconnect until you find the fault.   Once you start running, you will get much more enjoyment out of driving your locos - not the track.

Good luck.   I am sure you will enjoy your efforts whichever you choose.

Quite a few interesting points in there. Regarding Local Group that is a great idea, I ventured there though to discover that ours is predominantly DC has been and will be for years to come as no-one either understood or worse still wanted to know what DCC could do. I think there was one exception aside from me.
Secondly, I would recommend as the first piece of kit you should get and fit is a circuit breaker cost about a tenner to fit between track supply and controller otherwise if you short with DCC in particular you will easily blow chips or worse even your controller. The breaker is too quick for that to happen and safeguards toes items.

[dannyboy]

Hi Herzel. In a nutshell, with DCC, you need one controller and say 3 or 4 engines. Each engine gets a number (address). You enter the address of engine 1 into the controller and control that engine. Whilst that engine is running, you enter another address and control another engine, so you now have two engines running. To alter the speed or direction of the first engine, enter its address again and you are then controlling engine 1 again. Meanwhile, engine two is going merrily on its way. What you are controlling is the engine, not the track, so you can have two engines on the same stretch of track at the same time. As I say that is it in a nutshell and it can be as simple as you want it to be. There are plenty of members of this forum with a lot more knowledge than I have, so there will be more information and advice forthcoming. 

[Mikeedwilson]

Thanks for all the advice so far! Waiting on a couple of decoder deliveries and I can at least start trying a few things. DCC is now definitely the chosen way as after some more digging in a cupboard under the stairs, under a blanket, in a box, under a coat (and then some!), a boxed-up DCC controller was sitting there. Will get some pics as I get things created