Another blow to the rail industry

Lawrence · July 05, 2011, 11:32:09 AM

Bombardier cutting a lot of jobs in Derby works, looks like anyone modelling the Thameslink in the future will be running German Stock!

More here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-14019992

Geoff · July 05, 2011, 11:38:33 AM

Thats the way kick our lads out on to the dole, what is up with our products, it stinks 100%.

longbridge · July 05, 2011, 12:00:08 PM

This may or may not be related but I find it hard to believe that a fine railway system that ran locally made equipment can be completely wiped out as the one back home in Britain.

One of the things that made railways back home so good was because the equipment used was unique to the UK, now it seems just about everything that runs on rails is either manufactured by GE America/Canada or some far off Asian country, I think it makes railways less interesting and train lovers quite sad.

The same thing has happened in Australia where the railway companies are owned by foreign companies that source their equipment elsewhere which puts lots of staff onto unemployment benefits.

tadpole · July 05, 2011, 12:12:31 PM

I just hope the people making these decisions look at the "big picture".
OK, so the German trains may be slightly better for the operator, they may even be cheaper for the taxpayer, but do these benefits really outweigh the disbenefits of creating an unemployment blackspot in Derby, and disabling our (albeit foreign owned) industry from competing in future?
If they've borne all this in mind, then fine. But I suspect they haven't.

tadpole · July 05, 2011, 12:13:20 PM

....and more generally speaking:

What did the Germans do to enable DB to become so dominant, that the Brits didn't do for BR? - discuss. 2000 words, by lunchtime - go!

poliss · July 05, 2011, 12:50:16 PM

Buy from Bombadier, keep jobs in Britain. Sounds good doesn't it? But that's protectionism and you have to be very careful with that. Look up the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 to see what consequences it can have.

Newportnobby · July 05, 2011, 12:54:50 PM

From what I gather the Bombardier bid was very close to the Siemens bid, but I bet some faceless government official didn't factor in the cost of putting more people on the dole. Bombardier had already stated that 1400 jobs would go before knowing the result of the bid, as other contracts came to an end. Siemens have stated that winning this contract will create 500 jobs in the UK (big deal). Sadly I couldn't find a link, but please Google "Daily Mail 2.7.11 Bombardier" and there is a very good article explaining the ins and outs of this dumb decision.

Newportnobby · July 05, 2011, 12:57:08 PM

Quote from: poliss on July 05, 2011, 12:50:16 PM
Buy from Bombadier, keep jobs in Britain. Sounds good doesn't it? But that's protectionism and you have to be very careful with that. Look up the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 to see what consequences it can have.

Yeah, but it's OK for the Germans and French especially to source their railway stock from their own national manufacturers!

Lawrence · July 05, 2011, 01:11:52 PM

Two points, Bombardier is a Canadian Company, that just happens to have a works in the UK and I think it is also bad management to put all their eggs in the Thameslink contract basket.

So whilst it is convenient to blame the Germans the French the European Union rules or the government, the Bombardier management must take some of the blame.

moogle · July 05, 2011, 01:36:03 PM

Well none of you have passed the exam Tadpole set as all of your replies are clearly under 2000 words!
Now go and write 'I MUST DO BETTER!' 1000 times and hand it in by 9 a.m or you'll be in detention!

Seriously though, thats the way the U.K (I refuse to call it Great Britain as the 'Great' disappeared long ago...) and other countries are run now.
Keep your costs minimum and your profits maximum, thats the name of the game now.
Quality may still come in to question as no one wants to buy rubbish but people are just numbers on a balance sheet and are therefor expendable.
Its how the modern world is and is just something we have to get used to I'm afraid.

poliss · July 05, 2011, 01:53:03 PM

"Yeah, but it's OK for the Germans and French especially to source their railway stock from their own national manufacturers!"
No it isn't. Protectionism leads to lazy manufacturing practices. Manufacturers don't try to keep their costs and prices down because they have no need to. They don't have to worry about foreign competition.
Result, prices go up, consumers can't afford the goods, sales drop, factories close, unemployment rises.

In the worst case it can lead to a Depression, such as happened after the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930. Germany then had hyper-inflation and went bust leading to the election of you-know-who.

Newportnobby · July 05, 2011, 02:46:27 PM

Sorry Poliss, but I was practising irony and obviously failed the test.
I still remember the Warship farce (different loading gauge to the Germans) along with the Blue Pullmans (Swedish bogies that gave a really rough ride). Of course, my memory may have even failed me on those points too. Doh!

poliss · July 05, 2011, 02:52:51 PM

That's the problem with forums, no tone of voice to detect irony etc. That's why smilies had to be invented. Shame that the text versions, such as <vbg> seem to have died out.

lesmond · July 05, 2011, 07:53:48 PM

Moogle - if you only call it Great Britain then you leave me out, and I'd cry...

EtchedPixels · July 05, 2011, 08:43:54 PM

Quote from: tadpole on July 05, 2011, 12:13:20 PM
....and more generally speaking:

What did the Germans do to enable DB to become so dominant, that the Brits didn't do for BR? - discuss. 2000 words, by lunchtime - go!

Believe in the long term, hire competent people - for the long term, build up expertise and value engineering and industrial skill sets not just "I've got an MBA" people (and I've got an MBA so I'm allowed to say that

). Oh and allow beer in meetings

The other problem with doing it in the UK is that UK trains can be shipped to/from Germany easily, but German trains don't fit into the UK so until HS2 is real and someone is building trains next to it any UK base is crippled by being tied to a small very iffy market heavily influenced by this weeks government policy choice.