Atso-Cad Models

Alex · December 30, 2013, 07:35:00 PM

Great work Atso. If you ever get around to some Barclay 0-6-0T I'd be interested.

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10011.htm

Alex

Stevie DC · December 30, 2013, 08:52:52 PM

Quote from: geminijkr on December 30, 2013, 07:05:36 PM
Hi,
I would be interested in a GNR/LNER K2 2-6-0 to fit a Farish 4MT 2-6-0 chassis, a LNER N5 0-6-2 tank with suitable chassis which may be a Farish 3MT as modified for the N2 and a GNR/LNER D2 or D3 with a tender drive either a Farish or Union mills.
Could the K3 fit on an older Farish chassis, such as a black five or crab, with a tender drive from Union Mills replacing the motor?. I have two of the tender drives spare.
I will also look forward to the J52 and won the road maybe a GER/LNER D16!
Keith Robson

Hi,

Yes I'm thinking of a K2 along those lines as well so this may well appear in the future. I've actually designed a D2 as a personal project for use with a modified Dapol B1 (as I've got several of these!) the design needs a little tweeking as I've had to remove material from inside the cab to get everything to fit but my current prgress can be found in my personal workbench thread along with a D16/3 created along similar lines: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16157.15

An N5 sounds interest but I'd need to source some drawings for it first. I believe that Worsley Works does an etched kit for this already though.

I have no idea if my K3 body will fit an unmotorised Crab chassis as I don't have one to hand. I'll see if I can dig out any drawings for the Crab and compare the wheelbases, etc. The only thing I can foresee as being a problem is lowering the cylinders as these were mounted very high up on the Crab. I've been playing with converting a Kato C11 chassis for the K3 which can also be found on my workbench thread. The K3 body will need some modest redesigning to fit properly and again you'd need to ditch the original motor and run it off a Union Mills tender drive but so far it seems quite an easy conversion.

Alex, the Barclay 0-6-0 looks great! Do you have any ideas where drawings can be sourced?

Alex · December 30, 2013, 10:46:01 PM

Hi Atso,

All I have is a basic line drawing of the engine. I reckon it would fit on a Grafar GP Tank chassis. I've trying to scratchbuild my own for a few years now but they never turn out very great.

I'll look out the drawing and email it to you if you are interested.

Alex

Stevie DC · December 30, 2013, 10:57:21 PM

Quote from: Alex on December 30, 2013, 10:46:01 PM
Hi Atso,

All I have is a basic line drawing of the engine. I reckon it would fit on a Grafar GP Tank chassis. I've trying to scratchbuild my own for a few years now but they never turn out very great.

I'll look out the drawing and email it to you if you are interested.

Alex

Yes please! Many thanks.

Geminijkr, I've had a quick look at the 4MT against a K3 (can't find the K2 drawings at the moment) and while the wheelbase is out, I think that you could get away with it in N! Also according the my drawings the Crab chassis should fit under the K3 minus motor - however this is entirely dependant on how much Farish originally stretched/compressed the chassis to fit. You'd still need to lower the cylinders though...

geminijkr · December 31, 2013, 01:57:37 AM

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the info. How do you attach the chassis to the body? Does the print material hold a thread or can you glue a washer in the body to take the attaching bolt? I may just take the plunge and try for a K3 on a 4MT chassis.
Best regards
Keith

Stevie DC · December 31, 2013, 10:31:13 AM

Quote from: geminijkr on December 31, 2013, 01:57:37 AM
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the info. How do you attach the chassis to the body? Does the print material hold a thread or can you glue a washer in the body to take the attaching bolt? I may just take the plunge and try for a K3 on a 4MT chassis.
Best regards
Keith

Hi Keith,

The K3 was designed around the Farish V2 chassis so actually doesn't have any screw positions as it can clip into the chassis. Where possible I like to go for interference fits (a small blob of blu tack works wonders if you're concerned about the body falling off) as the FUD is unlikely to hold a screw thread in the long term. Another method I've employed is to use a small amount of milliput and embed the screw (with a light layer of oil) into that - I've not had a thread strip yet! The problem is that many modellers like to use different chassis and therefore it would be impossible to account for all the difference mounting positions.

Hope this helps.

geminijkr · December 31, 2013, 04:08:20 PM

Hi Steve,
That's very helpful, Thank you. I do have a V2 which I could use. It has never had great haulage power so maybe I can use that and add some weight to improve it. Although I suspect that the drag from the tender is major part of the problem so I might have to do something about that. The K3 was predominantly used for fast goods in the area I am modelling or seaside specials in the summer the weekends so it needs to have good traction up my gradient (which is not too steep).
Regards
Keith

Roy L S · December 31, 2013, 04:35:44 PM

Quote from: geminijkr on December 31, 2013, 04:08:20 PM
Hi Steve,
That's very helpful, Thank you. I do have a V2 which I could use. It has never had great haulage power so maybe I can use that and add some weight to improve it. Although I suspect that the drag from the tender is major part of the problem so I might have to do something about that. The K3 was predominantly used for fast goods in the area I am modelling or seaside specials in the summer the weekends so it needs to have good traction up my gradient (which is not too steep).
Regards
Keith

Although still on my "unfinished" pile I have one of Steve's K3 3D prints and very nice it is too I must say.

My solution to the chassis problem (As my V2 motor had failed anyway) was to strip out the motor and reduction gearing from the V2 chassis leaving it totally free-rolling. I then employed an unaltered Union Mills Group Standard tender-drive to provide power.

To reduce friction I stripped pickups from one side of the loco chassis and it now collects in the same way as UM (opposing sides loco/tender). It works very well indeed.

I just need to do Steve's excellent 3D print justice and find time to finish and paint the loco...

Regards

Roy

geminijkr · December 31, 2013, 05:02:08 PM

Thanks Roy. That sounds perfect. I will follow that route. Do you have any more tips on fitting the body and connecting the tender?
Regards
Keith

geminijkr · January 01, 2014, 07:28:32 PM

Hi Steve and Roy,
You will be happy to know I have placed an order for the K3 from Shapeways and propose to follow Roy's route of V2 chassis and Union mills tender. Does the kit come with instructions on modifying the V2 chassis to fit. If not any advice would be welcome.
Happy New Year to everyone
Keith Robson

Stevie DC · January 01, 2014, 08:38:28 PM

Hi, sorry no instructions.

However, if you're not planning on replacing the driving wheels the modifications to the chassis are simple. Pull off the rear pony truck and put in the spares box, you've now got a 2-6-0 configuration. Remove the motor as it won't be required and place the body on top. You'll find there is a little 'U' shaped plastic clip that holds the V2 body to the chassis behind the cab backhead, this helps to retain the K3 body - there are a couple of notches inside the cab for this.

The Union Mills tender drawbar can be modified to fit the Farish connection. Simply enlarge the hole in the loco end of the drawbar until it fits snugly on the loco connection pin.

If you wish to use closer to scale wheels the Union Mills J39 wheels are a good bet. However, you'll need to carefully enlarge the centre driving wheels crank pin hole to take the Farish crank pin for the valve gear. All the other wheels can retain the Union Mills crank pin. The advantage of this is that (1) you'll get close to scale driving wheels and (2) you can discard the Farish pickup system for use with the tender drive.

If you wish to go the whole hog then you can filedown the chassis where the cylinders and valve gear retention bracket sit but about 0.5-1mm depending which wheels you're using. This will allow the body to sit pretty much at scale height to the rails.

Hope this helps, PM me if you get into difficulties.

Cheers

Stevie DC · January 01, 2014, 11:36:05 PM

Referring back to the K2, I've managed to dig out my drawings for this as well as the 4MT. I've scanned them into the computer and superimposed them and so far the 4MT looking potentially very promising as a donor model for the K2.

What does everyone else think? The 4MT is in red while the K2 is in blue.

geminijkr · January 02, 2014, 02:56:52 AM

Hi Steve,
I would definitely go for a couple of these. The chassis looks close enough not to notice the difference in N Gauge and having a reliable chassis is most desirable and I suspect that a lot of people like me find making a reliable free running chassis the most challenging part. The mods look reasonably easy to do without changing any of the basic mechanics and the tender dimensions are a bit lower but would appear to be capable of taking the Farish motor.
Keith

Stevie DC · January 02, 2014, 11:23:34 AM

Quote from: geminijkr on January 02, 2014, 02:56:52 AM
Hi Steve,
I would definitely go for a couple of these. The chassis looks close enough not to notice the difference in N Gauge and having a reliable chassis is most desirable and I suspect that a lot of people like me find making a reliable free running chassis the most challenging part. The mods look reasonably easy to do without changing any of the basic mechanics and the tender dimensions are a bit lower but would appear to be capable of taking the Farish motor.
Keith

Hi Keith,

I agree the wheelbase is close enough that most people would notice. The cylinders would need to be lowered by about 1mm or so but what about the equally spaced wheelbase of the 4MT tender compared to the K2?

It occurs to me that the 4MT may make a better starting point for the K3 as well. However you'd need to do something about the 4MT's double slid bars. How big an issue would people feel this is? One solution is to sell a bumper pack of the K2 (or K3) and a J6, that way the various components from the 4MT and B1 could be swapped over to create more accurate models of both locos as below:

Parts

K2/K3

4MT Loco chassis (Cylinders lowered and almost correct wheelbase)
B1 tender (unequal wheelbase and no need to swap the body for the K3)
B1 Wheels (Actually undersized on the Farish B1 at a scale 5'10 opposed to the B1's 6'2 drivers and the K2/K3's 5'8 drivers. Simple swap?)
B1 slidebars on 4MT valve gear (K3 only)

J6

B1 Loco chassis (cut down but totally correct wheelbase)
4MT tender (equal wheelbase)
4MT Wheels

Between these three locos some rather accurate models appear to be possible. With the K3 Farish now produces 3 of the four tender tops that it would've run with - the exception being the GNR tender which would need to be very slightly stretched to fit the tender drive. Would people go for a two in one deal though?

Roy L S · January 02, 2014, 11:42:06 AM

Quote from: geminijkr on December 31, 2013, 05:02:08 PM
Thanks Roy. That sounds perfect. I will follow that route. Do you have any more tips on fitting the body and connecting the tender?
Regards
Keith

When I get a few mins at the weekend I will put a pic of the chassis in my Media folder. It is very straightforward to modify. I have left the traction weight in situ as it makes no difference to the UM drive's capacity but was thinking about reducing the height slightly.

Fixing the body will involve nothing more than double sided tape which is surprisingly effective.

i am also considering adding a basic cab interior as there is no motor/flywheel to acommodate now.

Regards

Roy