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Author Topic: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign  (Read 3611 times)

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Online emjaybee

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2017, 11:49:04 pm »
Having seen DJM at Warley today, they seem to be full of ideas, wanting people to commit to multiple projects, whilst not seemingly progressing any existing projects to any great degree.

I'd love to be able to commit more to some of their projects but I'm not prepared to get involved when lots of other stuff seems stalled. Other "small" scale manufacturers produce products and continue to progress, I'm keener to support their projects.

Just my thoughts, nothing more.

 :hmmm:
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Offline mickster04

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2017, 12:55:26 am »
DJ seems to be doing what Dapol were doing, over-committing with lots of announcements then not delivering nearly as much.

Offline longbow

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 01:40:36 am »
I share your concerns about over-reach, but DJM are not committing to anything until these crowdfunded projects reach target.

Offline PaulCheffus

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 09:57:23 am »
Revolution crowd funding can deliver an 11 coach Pendolino for around the same price DJM want for a crowd funded 5 car APT.  I won't be funding that.  I do want at least 4 Claytons, but I'm beginning to doubt they will ever appear

Pete @ EGLM

Hi

Prices have also gone up in the three years since that was announced. Look at the price of 4 wheel wagons now around £20 each for something that was around £9 three years ago.

Personally I don't think its over priced but I do agree about the amount of announcements.

Cheers

Paul

Offline njee20

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2017, 10:16:57 am »
I don't think the 14 car is too expensive really, given the number of different vehicles etc. It's too much for me to have a punt on, as a pure rule 1 purchase. That alone is a delicate balance - by reducing the price I'm sure Dave would have sold more, but how many more I don't know. However the 5-car at £550 is harder to swallow IMO. £110 per coach I think is just too expensive. Yes the market prices have increased, but that's a whole new baseline for any MU. Kernow's TC came under fire for being expensive at £289 for a 4-car unpowered unit. Given how we're told motors aren't actually a hugely significant cost (hence dummies being uneconomical) the 5-car APT at >50% more per coach seems excessive to me. Then again, perhaps it's shrewd pricing to push people towards more expensive but better 'value' options.

It's interesting on RMWeb how a 00 offering is looking vastly more popular, particularly as someone has observed that a 14-car unit in 00 is 14+ feet long!

Offline ECMLfan

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2017, 11:34:10 am »
 :photospleasesign:
Revolution crowd funding can deliver an 11 coach Pendolino for around the same price DJM want for a crowd funded 5 car APT.  I won't be funding that.  I do want at least 4 Claytons, but I'm beginning to doubt they will ever appear

Pete @ EGLM

Revolution can because they arranged a fixed price with Rapido. Sadly for Rapido but good for us as the pound has crashed and is a lot less worth compared to the dollar then a year ago. So get used to that for the foreseeable future. Furthermore the APT that RevolutioN is offering only needs tooling for 2coaches as it are two identical half sets. Coming in at around $150.000 for tooling.

I didnít made that up as this is the price one of the RevolutioN guys told me when I asked them some questions regarding the Pendolimo, 321 and possible new models like a 315

Offline NeMo

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2017, 12:09:19 pm »
Mine too. These £200+ projects are way out of my price range when it comes to what is, after all, just one of my several hobbies. But the circa-£100 locos are definitely quick purchases for me, and I'd like to see more progress on the Class 17 especially.

DJM's the businessman, not me, and he's the one with skin in the game. But I'd have thought a slow burning, but consistently selling thing like a loco would be a more attractive proposition. The demand for "Rule 1" diesels is out there, and with the Class 17, you also have something with an interesting history, including some departmental and industrial usage to boot! Plus there's a preserved one out there as well. So lots of ways to use one.

It just seems to be in some sort of gestation phase for over 4 years, and I'm wondering if we'll ever see the model!

Cheers, NeMo

Having seen DJM at Warley today, they seem to be full of ideas, wanting people to commit to multiple projects, whilst not seemingly progressing any existing projects to any great degree.

I'd love to be able to commit more to some of their projects but I'm not prepared to get involved when lots of other stuff seems stalled. Other "small" scale manufacturers produce products and continue to progress, I'm keener to support their projects.

Just my thoughts, nothing more.

 :hmmm:

Online emjaybee

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2017, 12:31:56 pm »
Generally speaking, people won't commit to more than they can afford. I've got money earmarked for the J94 in N, so I'm not likely to "commit" to anything else at present (Revolution don't know how lucky they were  ;D). Others have committed to other DJM projects, so, crowd funded or not, all they're doing is watering down interest.

If they actually got something off the production line before coming up with another three projects then we'd probably see more stuff crossing viability thresholds.

 :hmmm:
Sometimes you bite the dog...

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Online port perran

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2017, 12:45:19 pm »
I, for one, feel that prices have gone beyond the watershed. In fact, I was talking to the owner of a model shop 2 weeks ago and he is very concerned by a drop in sales due to prices over the last twelve months.
I'm fairly lucky in that I already have enough stock both locos and wagons/carriages (in fact I have far too much for my needs really) so Iím not too concerned. It has to be something really special for me to buy now and, perhaps Iím old fashioned but I prefer to see things in the shops before I commit.
Like NeMo, this is only one of my hobbies/interests so money has to be apportioned accordingly. Looking at other things I buy for hobbies etc, I donít feel that prices have risen as much as in the field of model railways.

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Online Snowwolflair

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2017, 12:47:55 pm »
I think the price is about correct for a limited run special (regardless of manufacturer), and yes there are probably 1000 enthusiasts able willing to stump up this amount to have one (judging by the high end motors parked at TINGS each year).  The rarity might even play to its appeal.

As far as DJ is concerned I think there is a (deliberate) misunderstanding by some.

The Claytons et-al are simply not being produced as Dave does not have the available cash to pay a factory to make them, not for any technical reason.  Frankly he is twiddling his fingers waiting to make some profit from his other offerings to fund the production.  Revolution and others take money up front so they can commit to manufacturing, tool making etc. whereas Dave cannot.

That is why he is now offering crowdfunding so he can go down the Revolution route, and I hope he makes the transition.

What to do - buy his available product to give him the cash to produce more.

Offline trkilliman

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2017, 12:55:53 pm »
Generally speaking, people won't commit to more than they can afford. I've got money earmarked for the J94 in N, so I'm not likely to "commit" to anything else at present (Revolution don't know how lucky they were  ;D). Others have committed to other DJM projects, so, crowd funded or not, all they're doing is watering down interest.

If they actually got something off the production line before coming up with another three projects then we'd probably see more stuff crossing viability thresholds.

 :hmmm:

I have been enthusiastic about the King class project from the start. I have registered/expressed my interest and said I would be interested in two locos. It's been quiet for several weeks, this was raised, and Dave Jones said an announcement would be made at Warley about this crowdfunded project.

As far as I can accertain no announcement was made.

I am becoming disenchanted with the lack of updates and anything to bolster my confidence that things are actually moving forward. I have not parted with any money yet. To be honest f,rom a point where I was actively goading people to join the crowdfunding, I'm now beginning to have second thoughts.

Am I the only person who has registered an interest in a King loco/s but is now growing cooler towards it?

Snowolflair. I hear what you are saying, but surely if you have a core of people on board you should at least endevour to keep them updated on any progress? With no locos to view we are all putting our faith in him to deliver, against a fair tide of people who for various reasons would not become involved.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 12:59:32 pm by trkilliman »

Online Snowwolflair

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2017, 01:02:25 pm »
Generally speaking, people won't commit to more than they can afford. I've got money earmarked for the J94 in N, so I'm not likely to "commit" to anything else at present (Revolution don't know how lucky they were  ;D). Others have committed to other DJM projects, so, crowd funded or not, all they're doing is watering down interest.

If they actually got something off the production line before coming up with another three projects then we'd probably see more stuff crossing viability thresholds.

 :hmmm:

I have been enthusiastic about the King class project from the start. I have registered/expressed my interest and said I would be interested in two locos. It's been quiet for several weeks, this was raised, and Dave Jones said an announcement would be made at Warley about this crowdfunded project.

As far as I can accertain no announcement was made.

I am becoming disenchanted with the lack of updates and anything to bolster my confidence that things are actually moving forward. I have not parted with any money yet To be honest from a point where I was actively goading people to join the crowdfunding,although I'm now beginning to have second thoughts.

Am I the only person who has registered an interest in a King loco/s but is now growing cooler towards it?

Snowolflair. I hear what you are saying, but surely if you have a core of people on board you should at least endevour to keep them updated on any progress? With no locos to view we are all putting our faith in him to deliver, against a fair tide of people who for various reasons would not become involved.

Until you put up cash you really cannot complain.  In this life you get what you pay for and as you have paid nothing you get nothing.  :D

I have three reservations for Kings, they have cost me nothing and as long as they are the only option I have to get a descent model of a King i'm happy. 

If Farish or Dapol announce one tomorrow I will review my position but until that happens good luck to Dave.

Offline Steven B

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2017, 01:13:35 pm »

Like others, I'd like to see DJM make some progress on his other N Gauge projects. Similarly, it would have been nice to see some CAD images to go with the anouncement.

Revolution and others take money up front so they can commit to manufacturing, tool making etc. whereas Dave cannot.

That is why he is now offering crowdfunding so he can go down the Revolution route, and I hope he makes the transition.


Hasn't DJM gone down the road of Crowdfunded/pay-up-front for the class 92? He anounced this at the same time as Revolution Trains. Currently RT have a running prototype, DJM has shown nothing but CAD. He may be delivering his anounced models, just doing it a lot slower than we'd like

That said, I alone in being more interested in some of the other models that may follow:
DJM Dave on RMWeb wrote:
Quote
Durham Trains of Stanley hope that this is the first of a NEW ‘West Coast’ range in N gauge and hope to produce the following models in the coming years as part of the range…..Classes 81, 82, 83, 84 and 85, plus EMU classes 303, 304 and 312.


I'd happily find home for an 85 and a 304.

Steven B.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 01:19:34 pm by Steven B »

Offline njee20

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2017, 01:35:06 pm »

That is why he is now offering crowdfunding so he can go down the Revolution route, and I hope he makes the transition.

What to do - buy his available product to give him the cash to produce more.

Off the top of my head he's announced:

- n gauge cars
- n gauge 92
- 00 gauge 92
- n gauge HUO
- 00 gauge HUO
- APT
- n gauge King

That's 7 models, plus commissions, I'd say that's a very definite transition!

Online RailGooner

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Re: DJM APT-P
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2017, 01:35:32 pm »
Have just read - well started to read - the DJM announcement on RMWeb:
Quote
..
 This model will be made by the worlds most successful RTR Model Railway Crowdfunder, DJModels Ltd,
...


Really(!)? "The worlds [sic] most successful RTR Model Railway Crowdfunder" you say. Can that be true? By what measurement? My view of history is quite different.
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