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The NGF Staff.

Poll

Would you be interested in purchasing "The Twins" 10000 & 10001 as a ready to run model?

I'd be interested in purchasing both locos in LMS livery.
19 (29.7%)
I'd be interested in purchasing one of the locos in LMS livery.
10 (15.6%)
I'd be interested in purchasing one of these locos in an alternative livery.
19 (29.7%)
I'd be interested in purchasing two of these locos in an alternative livery.
16 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Author Topic: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.  (Read 1655 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online emjaybee

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 11:58:34 am »
I've added an option for having two locos in alternative liveries.

Hope this helps.

 :thumbsup:
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Offline red_death

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 12:12:16 pm »
How would you suggest I amend the poll? My plan was purely to establish how many bodyshells/chassis could be potentially sold. In your experience what is the approx magic  number for a worthwhile production?

Love your work btw.

Thanks!

At this stage I think you've got two choices
1) either a simple poll saying would you buy:
- a pair of the LMS twins
- one of the LMS twins

Livery is kind of irrelevant at this stage. You are really trying to establish that there is a market for the models - I would have thought a major advantage of this idea is that the majority of people are going to want a pair (though there are lots of detail differences!).

Or:
2) start gathering together some of the basic research as Bob has suggested so that people have an idea of what they are voting for (for the people who may not know much about the prototype) and so that people see it is a serious endavour (and not merely just wishlisting).

Actually thinking about it, it is a combination of both! If people don't think it is a serious, well thought out project then they won't bother to vote for it or take it seriously.

A final thought worth bearing in mind is the capacity of both the manufacturers to produce another model and the capacity of the audience/customers to engage with a poll/crowdfunding exercise.  Neither are infinite!

Cheers, Mike



Offline njnall

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 12:39:40 pm »
I have added my vote for LMS versions of 10000 & 10001, absolutely no part of my layout plans, however, am unable to resist the possibility of them running round the layout with appropriate rolling stock.

Offline NGS-PO

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2017, 06:49:00 pm »
How would you suggest I amend the poll? My plan was purely to establish how many bodyshells/chassis could be potentially sold. In your experience what is the approx magic  number for a worthwhile production?

Love your work btw.

Livery is kind of irrelevant at this stage. You are really trying to establish that there is a market for the models -

To an extent this may be true, but in this case it may not be as cut and dried, unlike some other models such as the Class B tanks and the TEA tanks.

I have voted for a pair in "other livery", and I'd be looking for 10000 in Brunswick with partial Eggshell band and 10001 in Brunswick with full Eggshell band, since any liveries prior to this would be well out of date for my 1962 layout. But the thing is, if that livery was not on offer, or ended up not being made because there weren't enough orders, I'm not sure I would transfer my order to any other livery, unless I was confident I could get a good repaint job done. So if there are others who are in my position, and if expressions or interest were borderline, the result might be cancellations, meaning the poll here might give a false indication, unless a crowdfunding project would commit to producing all or most liveries.

Am I making sense?

Along with Falcon, these models would be very high on my personal wishlist, so I'm keen to see this develop to see if it would fly.

Best

Scott

Online Bob G

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2017, 08:08:45 pm »
How would you suggest I amend the poll? My plan was purely to establish how many bodyshells/chassis could be potentially sold. In your experience what is the approx magic  number for a worthwhile production?

Love your work btw.

Livery is kind of irrelevant at this stage. You are really trying to establish that there is a market for the models -

To an extent this may be true, but in this case it may not be as cut and dried, unlike some other models such as the Class B tanks and the TEA tanks.

I have voted for a pair in "other livery", and I'd be looking for 10000 in Brunswick with partial Eggshell band and 10001 in Brunswick with full Eggshell band, since any liveries prior to this would be well out of date for my 1962 layout. But the thing is, if that livery was not on offer, or ended up not being made because there weren't enough orders, I'm not sure I would transfer my order to any other livery, unless I was confident I could get a good repaint job done. So if there are others who are in my position, and if expressions or interest were borderline, the result might be cancellations, meaning the poll here might give a false indication, unless a crowdfunding project would commit to producing all or most liveries.

Am I making sense?

Along with Falcon, these models would be very high on my personal wishlist, so I'm keen to see this develop to see if it would fly.

Best

Scott

Hi Scott

You could paint in / paint out the eggshell band - It was present/missing across the cab and nose doors depending on the age of the loco. The small yellow end is also possibly OK to add (but we all know yellow is a pig to spray over anything) and I would even suggest the locos could be supplied partially numbered or un-numbered with dry rub transfers for 10001 or 10000.

Bob



Offline NGS-PO

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2017, 08:30:53 pm »
How would you suggest I amend the poll? My plan was purely to establish how many bodyshells/chassis could be potentially sold. In your experience what is the approx magic  number for a worthwhile production?

Love your work btw.

Livery is kind of irrelevant at this stage. You are really trying to establish that there is a market for the models -

To an extent this may be true, but in this case it may not be as cut and dried, unlike some other models such as the Class B tanks and the TEA tanks.

I have voted for a pair in "other livery", and I'd be looking for 10000 in Brunswick with partial Eggshell band and 10001 in Brunswick with full Eggshell band, since any liveries prior to this would be well out of date for my 1962 layout. But the thing is, if that livery was not on offer, or ended up not being made because there weren't enough orders, I'm not sure I would transfer my order to any other livery, unless I was confident I could get a good repaint job done. So if there are others who are in my position, and if expressions or interest were borderline, the result might be cancellations, meaning the poll here might give a false indication, unless a crowdfunding project would commit to producing all or most liveries.

Am I making sense?

Along with Falcon, these models would be very high on my personal wishlist, so I'm keen to see this develop to see if it would fly.

Best

Scott

Hi Scott

You could paint in / paint out the eggshell band - It was present/missing across the cab and nose doors depending on the age of the loco. The small yellow end is also possibly OK to add (but we all know yellow is a pig to spray over anything) and I would even suggest the locos could be supplied partially numbered or un-numbered with dry rub transfers for 10001 or 10000.

Bob

Hi Bob,

My concern would be if only the black liveried examples made the cut, for example. Otherwise, yes you are quite correct.

Best

Scott

Online emjaybee

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2017, 09:53:16 pm »
The poll should (that's how I set the poll up) allow you to select two options.

My brain was thinking that both bodyshells would be identical, but judging from previous posts this may not be the case. So if someone wanted the original pair of locos and one in BR livery they could select both. I assumed that the main expense would be the design/production of bodyshells/running gear, with livery being a less expensive set up. (I apologise if that is an incorrect assumption)

As previously stated, my main aim was to get enough people registering in the poll for a manufacturer to take note and say, "let's get some options together and see if there's enough people willing to stump up a deposit to make the project viable". I'm hoping that if we can get enough people on here to maybe even get halfway to the target that a manufacturer would be willing to ask on other forums/websites/publications to see if there are other likeminded souls about to make the target.
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...but I can't understand it for you.

Online Claude Dreyfus

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2017, 10:03:19 pm »
You are quite right...

...pedantic.

 :whistle:

Only 10000 carried LMS livery. 10001 was delivered after nationalisation, so carried BR roundels, not LMS markings. That's not pedantic, that's fact.

Offline NGS-PO

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2017, 11:33:47 am »
To provide a little more information regarding the geographical reach of these fine locomotives, the following might be of interest:

Following initial testing,  10000 was placed on a twice daily London-Derby return passenger service from February 1948.  It was joined by No. 10001  on the service, and shortly after a Derby-Manchester turn was added.

After some modifications towards the end of 1948, the twins returned to the same route, initially, before they were transferred to the WCML to haul Euston to Glasgow express trains, although apparently only as far as Carlisle. The Royal Scot, sometimes at 16 coaches, was a common turn for them to be found on during this period.  These latter services saw the locomotives operate in multiple. In this configuration they were classified as equivalent to a class 8 steam locomotive (class 5 when operated singly). From June 1949, it appears that the twins, in multiple, began traversing the full route from Euston to Glasgow, before being separated and operating in singles again. 10000 was often tasked with the Euston to Blackpool service, whilst 10001 remained on the London to Glasgow turns, although it could also be found on LOndon to Crewe and London to Liverpool.

Both locomotives could also be found on freight turns, particularly express London (Camden) to Crewe, and Crewe-Willesden freights;  One notable freight working was the haulage of a 60 wagon, 1100 ton gross coal train, between Rugby and Willesden, achieving 25 mph on a 1 in 133 gradient to Tring Summit.

Other operations included a trial on the Settle and Carlisle, and workings to Perth, and, on one occasion to Aberdeen. Due to boiler problems they often worked winter freights and Royal Scot in summers.

In March 1953 they were both transferred to the Southern Region of British Railways to allow direct comparison to be made between them and the SR's 10201, 10202 & 10203. The twins remained on SR metals until spring 1955, and during their stay could be found on the Bournemouth Belle and now and again on services to Exeter. They were also noted at Brighton Works on occasion.

After overhaul at Derby, the locomotives returned to London Midland Region duties, mostly singly. The Royal Scot was a charge again during 1957/58, but by 1963, both locomotives found themselves languishing at Derby, where 10000 was withdrawn and partially cannibalized to keep 10001 in service until 1966, primarily on freight work around North London, but sightings exist of it on WCML freight work, and Wolverhampton express passenger trains.   

No 10000 was scrapped in May 1968, whilst, somewhat ironically, 10001 was scrapped in February 1968.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 11:59:51 am by NGS-PO »

Online emjaybee

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 11:41:03 am »
@NGS-PO thank you for the extra information on the Twins.

 :thumbsup:
Sometimes you bite the dog...

...sometimes the dog bites you!

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Offline NGS-PO

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 09:35:18 am »
To bump the thread a little bit, here are some images of the twins:

In the Lune gorge with 15 coaches in tow, 1948. 10000 can clearly be seen to be carrying its LMS legacy


Twins in tandem powering the Royal Scot. Is that an ex-LMS BG at the front of the rake?


A lovely image, in green this time, apparently at Lichfield?


10001, in green, on a breakdown train through Kenton on the WCML, 1964

Offline tutenkhamunsleeping

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 09:54:54 am »
A lovely image, in green this time, apparently at Lichfield?


Yup, that's heading south at Lichfield Trent Valley.  The shadows of the old station's chimneys are visible across the tracks.  A somewhat greyer view of the location can be seen at https://www.flickr.com/photos/tutenkhamunsleeping/5312415908/in/album-72157625594451759/

Offline Bealman

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2017, 09:59:20 am »
I love that B&W Lune Gorge photo! Awesome.

Thanks for posting that!  :thumbsup:
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Offline Shiney Sheff

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2017, 09:25:42 pm »
I would certainly have both in early livery 

Online emjaybee

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Re: 10000 & 10001 "The Twins" as a ready to run loco.
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2017, 10:36:51 am »
An unashamed "bump".

 :thumbsup:
Sometimes you bite the dog...

...sometimes the dog bites you!

----------------------------------------------------------

I can explain it to you...

...but I can't understand it for you.

 

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