Are they reliable runners

Started by 1936ace, March 13, 2017, 06:16:05 AM

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PLD

Quote from: Webbo on March 14, 2017, 08:39:14 AM
Quote from: PLD on March 14, 2017, 07:51:39 AM
In my experience 95+% of problems with Dapol locos are user inflicted and not inherent design flaws.

I would like to know what experience you have in the way others treat their locomotives that allows you to assert that 95+% of Dapol problems are down to user mistreatment. That is a mighty bold assertion that can't be upheld without a great deal of statistics that I don't think anyone has including Dapol.
In my Experience i.e. of the locos I've dealt with... Those belonging to myself or fellow club members and those from others I've been asked to repair. That doesn't need any other statistics to be valid.
I didn't claim that that was representative of Dapol's output as a whole as you seem to be implying.  :confused1:

By far the most common issues encountered with Dapol Steam Locos are detached/lost drive shafts (which only drop out through mis-handling) or squashed valve gear due to gripping the valve gear rather than the body when picking up the loco.

Rabbitaway

I cannot comment on the A4 but I do have an A3 with similar running gear

The A3 is a noisy runner and through its value gear within two runs around my layout, luckily an easy repair, and yes I am very careful in the way I handle these locos.

I have a few Dapol steamers and have surprising found them better than their modern image offerings where I have a lot of problems with failed lights and wobbles (Class 86 are the exception as these always seem excellent runners). No issues so far with drive shafts coming a drift.

Steamers

A3 - noisy
Brit - good runner but wobbly rear truck wheels
B1 - good runner
M7 - good runner but no pulling power as well known


       

Elvinley

Having had experience with about a dozen of the non-valenced A4s I would make these points:

Loco is noisy. This can be tamed by adding weight to the tender, which also helps pick-up as mentioned by Dr Al. I also find a little tiny drop of Power Lube helps with the tender performance. Some locos are noisier than others.

Out of the ones I have had, four have had issues, the rest have been fine including one bought as NQP which turned out to be the quietest one I have and only needed tender to loco wires replacing.

On the subject of tender to loco wires: they do break and do need replacing from time to time, in the case of one of mine, straight out of the box.

Problems I have encountered have also included:

Valve gear coming adrift - this is very rare and normally obvious straight away.
Valve gear locking - the valve gear is thin and can occasionally lock up if parts come into contact - again very rare, and normally salvagable.
Squealing mechanism on one early release.
Back to backs out on one early release.

The ones I have that run well are good runners and are very powerful. They can be fussy on insulfrog points. The noise often eases with running but can be a bit off putting at first.

It is a fine looking model - livery can look a little flat.

All in all I would say that buying an untested one from abroad is a risk. Get it tested without any hesitation. I would say this for any loco from Dapol or Farish.

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Ian.

broadsword

There are one or two Dapol locos I like, but the bad press on their locos puts me off,
I have the little 14xx, nice even though not great hauling power. I got it a while back,
it was a bit sluggish, turned out the worm drive had grease like candle wax on it.
After digging it out with toothpicks it runs very smoothly. However should run
perfectly out of the box.




Bob Tidbury

Why do Dapol use that thick grease ? The first thing you have to do is get rid of it
That improves the running straight away then a very light oiling  and gentle running in.
I have a 14xx that pulls six coaches with ease.
I found its the M7 thats the worst  for haulage .
Bob Tidbury

Webbo

Quote from: Elvinley on March 15, 2017, 10:37:56 PM
Having had experience with about a dozen of the non-valenced A4s I would make these points:

Loco is noisy. This can be tamed by adding weight to the tender, which also helps pick-up as mentioned by Dr Al. I also find a little tiny drop of Power Lube helps with the tender performance. Some locos are noisier than others.

Out of the ones I have had, four have had issues, the rest have been fine including one bought as NQP which turned out to be the quietest one I have and only needed tender to loco wires replacing.

On the subject of tender to loco wires: they do break and do need replacing from time to time, in the case of one of mine, straight out of the box.

Problems I have encountered have also included:

Valve gear coming adrift - this is very rare and normally obvious straight away.
Valve gear locking - the valve gear is thin and can occasionally lock up if parts come into contact - again very rare, and normally salvagable.
Squealing mechanism on one early release.
Back to backs out on one early release.

The ones I have that run well are good runners and are very powerful. They can be fussy on insulfrog points. The noise often eases with running but can be a bit off putting at first.

It is a fine looking model - livery can look a little flat.

All in all I would say that buying an untested one from abroad is a risk. Get it tested without any hesitation. I would say this for any loco from Dapol or Farish.

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Ian.

Ian

That is a nice comprehensive statement on the A4s. I've had experience with two. The first one had a valve gear locking issue evident after I first tried to run it and it hopped down the track. I thought at the time that I could have bent the motion back so it would have worked at least temporarily, but reasoned that one or more of the pins holding the motion together might have stretched and that I could have been setting myself up for ongoing problems. So, I sent it straight back without an attempted repair. Any thoughts on this? @Elvinley

Sending stuff back to the UK for replacement is a giant nuisance and your advice of asking locos to be checked by the retailer before being sent is spot on. To 1936ace, I would say that I really like this loco and it has been worth the effort in getting one that runs properly. The issue of the cardan shaft being prone to pop out can be easily remedied by ensuring the loco and tender are picked up in line with one another and is certainly not a game changer.

Webbo

longbow

Both Rails and Hattons will test locos before despatch if asked. However I suspect the testing is pretty perfunctory - my Dapol Grange from Hattons came with a Tested sticker yet was just as rough as the one it replaced.

My three other Dapol tender drive locos (Halls/9F) are all exemplary runners but I agree they do need to be handled correctly to avoid issues with the drive shaft and the tender wires.

Elvinley

Quote from: Webbo on March 16, 2017, 11:25:25 PM

The first one had a valve gear locking issue evident after I first tried to run it and it hopped down the track. I thought at the time that I could have bent the motion back so it would have worked at least temporarily, but reasoned that one or more of the pins holding the motion together might have stretched and that I could have been setting myself up for ongoing problems. So, I sent it straight back without an attempted repair. Any thoughts on this? @Elvinley



Webbo

I would say you did the sensible thing. It may well have been easy to rectify but you could end up doing more damage unless you are very careful. The valve gear locked on one I had had for a few months and it was just a case of reversing the loco to unlock it and carefully bending the rods back to where they should be and making sure the clearance all round was now correct. Not sure why it suddenly decided to do it - maybe after a little wear it loosened things up enough to cause a bit of extra play?

Cheers,
Ian.

mojo

I emailed Dapol last weekend and received a reply this morning regarding the type of track the valanced A4's will negotiate.
I specified that my track layout utilised 2nd. radius Peco curves of 10.3 inch radius and according to Director Joel Bright I should expect no problems running around the curves.
That said, I will now bite the bullet and see if I can find a tested and quiet model from Rails my nearest dealer.
Maurice C.

Les1952

Just seen this thread.

I currently have eight BR liveried A4s plus the N Gauge Society unvalanced Silver Link.

A couple of these were secondhand and came with problems - a damaged traction tyre on one and another that had been castly overoiled wrecking both traction tyres and causing other problems.  Of the new ones one had the slide bars slightly out of alignmet on arrival - transit vibration had loosened it slightly. A gentle push back with a cocktail stick cured this.   I now have my first one needing a major service- 60030 (a renumbered Wild Swan) has locked its valve gear and will be off shortly to DCC Supplies for sorting.  This loco has so far done about eight miles (full-sized miles) in service. 

The only other problem I've found is that the front bogie can be a bit tricky. The tongue at the front occasionally locks to one side of the piece I believe is supposed to slot into it, affecting trackholding.  The A3 doesn't have this tongue and holds the track a good deal more reliably.  Having said that I rate the A4 above the Farish one for trackholding, and very high on my list of locos.

Drive shafts are an issue but mainly down to being picked up badly.  NEVER pick a loco up by the valve gear- it springs Dapol drive shafts and damages Farish valve gear.  Hold the cab and tender if you really must only use one hand.   

Putting the drive shaft back is straightorward.  Use pliers (curved-end work better for me) to put the loco end in first.  It helps if you can get light shining directly into the cab to see better.  Then use a cocktail stick to rotate the motor until the slots on the tender-end drive collar line up with the lugs on the drive shaft and click back into place.  Britannias are a lot more tricky than A4s.  A3s are easier and the rest simple by comparison.

Overall I rate my four LNER pacific types as follows.
A3s top- reliable and strong
A4s next.  Slight track sensitivity.
A2s.  Reliable but two of my three can't pull the skin off a rice pudding.
A1s.  I've had too many failures (5 visits to BR Lines) among my original three. I'm hoping two new ones I've just acquired will improve the overall rating.

Hope this helps
Les


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