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Poll

How namy of which class 20/3 sub class would you be interested in?

1 in old DRS livery
0 (0%)
2 in Old DRS Livery
3 (15.8%)
More than 2 in old DRS Livery
2 (10.5%)
1 in DRS Compass Livery
1 (5.3%)
2 in DRS Compass Livery
8 (42.1%)
More than 2 In DRS Compass Livery
1 (5.3%)
1 in HNRC Livery
0 (0%)
2 in HNRC livery
1 (5.3%)
More than 2 in HNRC Livery
0 (0%)
At least one in each livery
3 (15.8%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Voting closed: December 28, 2016, 08:48:56 pm

Author Topic: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3  (Read 1742 times)

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Offline acko22

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Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« on: October 19, 2016, 06:05:19 pm »
Ok firstly I will say this is a proposal for the future possibly.

As stated in the title this is for the DRS class 20/3s which DRS took ownership off after the privatisation of BR and modified them for use on Nuclear Flask services around the UK both for power stations and the MOD.
These 20's had modified cabs loosing many of their original feature and gaining a flat slab front with (what I think it is called) WIPAC lighting to suit the needs of their primary nuclear transportation role, the front end was also flattened out and with WIPAC lights on the buffer beam and a MU socket on the front of the nose end to allow the 20s to work as a pair even to allow the front loco to control the rear loco even if the front loco shuts down for any reason.

In addition to this there was also additional fuel tanks built on to the side of the bodies just in front of the drivers cab, there were added to allow the locomotives to travel the ranges required to move from the furthest spilt nuclear facilities without having to stop for fuelling, again allowing the locomotives to fulfil the needs of their nuclear duties.

In more recent history as DRS take on newer and more capable locomotives such as the class 68s these locomotives have changes hands to the likes of HNRC and are still in use on the national rail network. Now seeing service in there rebuilt condition going on for 20 years

Now for the models, Farish have produced a DRS class 20/9 how ever that still sub class still retains the older domino front ends, and the models do not have the extended range fuel tanks that both the DRS class 20/3 and 20/9 sub classes had in service. So as yet there ha not been an accurate model of the DRS class 20 fleets, the Farish model was purely a repaint of models already in the catalogue.

Ok and now for the plus and minus points of the model, starting with the points for the model:

The locomotives have been working on the network for almost 20 years now in the 20/3 DRS design, and with members of the class been purchased from DRS they look to be carrying on for years to come, and possibly onto preserved lines in the future.
Due to the natures of its primary roles and design they have been used nation wide literally the length and width of the country been seen on class to all routes in the country which doesn't limit them to been regional or route specific models.
While their primary role on rebuilding was for nuclear duties  they have been used on many and numerous other duties such as the RHTT due to them having an extremely food route availability so even if not wanting to use them on a flask train they can still be used on other duties even in a few cases on intermodal services when DRS took them on.
Now with the likes of HNRC owning some of this locos they are found on other services and the new colours allows more running options


There is one point which is and either or point to this proposal, which is that while Farish don't do the 20/3 sub class they do the class 20 and as a DCC model which could be a point to start on as a crowd funded model to ensure a speedy model with it only needing body work and underframe alterations to the base model that Farish produce.
With that this could make it a relatively simple and cheaper process to make as the mechanics and electronics are already done.

Ok and now for the negative points which every proposal will always have:

The main one I see is that this would only be for ERA 9 modellers as the DRS 20/3 subclass only came about post privatisation so would only be suitable for modern era modellers.
The second one I see may be a negative point for some people is that in normal duties the 20s run as pairs and people may not be in a position to purchase the 2 required to make a prototypical pair.

In summary then while there are negative points as stated above it comes down to the big question behind it all do I think that this proposal could reach the magical 1000 number?

Honestly yes I do there are accurate DRS models out there all ready in the form of the 37s/47s/and 57s the only ones missing are the 20s and the 68s which are already in the process of been designed and made elsewhere.
If you work out my logic if people want an accurate run then normally they run as pairs so you may only need 500 people to go for this proposal, and with its geographical coverage there is no worry of regionalisation to block this model for any modern era modeller.

Offline cazadoom

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 08:32:19 pm »

I would be up for at least 3 pairs

Callum

Offline Cookiedude13

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 09:06:01 pm »
If the cost of two models for the prototypical pair is potentially a stumbling point, a pack with a powered loco and a dummy could be a solution to help keep costs down. Having tried and never completed a TPM conversion I would certainly buy 2 pairs.

Offline alibuchan

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 10:31:31 pm »
I would have a pair.

Alistair

Offline Hazr1980

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 11:54:31 pm »
I'd have a pair too

Offline JBQFC

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2016, 07:27:04 pm »
i would have four

Offline robert shrives

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2016, 09:11:12 pm »
HI could count me in for a couple of pairs.

Previous threads have shown it will have to be powered pairs as Bachmann have resolutely decline to do dummies , perhaps 500 in one number and another 500 in a second number.
Might it  be an option if say funding was for tooling to allow swaping cab and nose - all demountable parts from current farish models and then a respray and livery to current standards in this country.  Funding would be needed to buy 1000 models from Bachmann and then fund reworking and tooling. At least livery  pre compass quite easy even roof colour could be a choice.
Best clearly is commission a full Farish model but I guess price tag will be eyewatering, good luck anyway
Robert

         

Offline acko22

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2016, 10:02:18 pm »
Hi everyone,

Well I had a little dig about at liveries and running of this sub class since the DRS take over so I have added a poll the liveries and runs that I have found are starting with the older DRS livery:



Newer Compass livery:



HNRC livery:



And proof if you needed it that the 20s didn't always work in pairs on duties:



At the moment I don't think DRS are putting the 20s in the newest livery, but please don't quote me on that!

Personally for sales if Revolution or anyone else for that matter was going to do these then I would say sell them as singles due to the nature that even for their smaller numbers compared to so many classes they can be found in every nuck and cranny in some odd combination.

The idea of dummies I think is not really going to happen these days with DCC models as the only difference is the lack of motors which is minimal cost difference so you would be looking at paying around 10 pound less for a dummy and that's just not worth it.

Going purely from what the target was for the pendolino 1000 models as an achievable goal I believe if these are sold as single models and possibly twin pack.
While the poll is on the only thing to remember is this is just a snap shot of the market as there are those who aren't on here and well as happened to me those that may want multiple but when it comes time to opening the wallet the multiple may become just a single due to the realities of life.

Offline robert shrives

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2016, 08:24:17 am »
Hi ,
Can the poll be adjusted to allow voting for more than one livery please.

I would be greedy and be looking at 2 of each to allow several types of train to be run, flasks, RHTT and LUL delivery train returning to Derby.

cheers
Robert 

Offline Cooper

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2016, 09:29:44 am »
I'm struggling to remember when DRS 20s transferred from The old livery into Compass, and my Google search clearly doesn't have the right parameters to find the answer. Can anyone remember when these liveries were changed? It will help me make my choice!

Offline Ben A

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2016, 09:34:47 am »
Hello all,

I think the 20/3 is a great idea, and certainly one Mike and I have talked about before.

The issues are that the obvious candidate to do it (due to having suitable chassis, bogies, and CAD) is Farish, but Bachmann have never worked with anyone that does not have an established retail premises, and on top of that have recently indicated they are going to be more selective about special commissions going forward.

Also, as far as Revolution Trains is concerned, we have the Pendolino, 320/321 and Class 92 at various stages of development and won't be proposing another powered model until we have delivered the Pendolino to supporters.

Cheers

Ben A.



Offline Roy L S

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2016, 12:02:34 pm »
An interesting project to consider but the existence of the Farish DCC ready model would make this far too risky as a venture to progress with another manufacturer. It would appear fairly logical to me that at some point Bachmann will cover off these colourful later prototypes, and I would hate to see further duplication.

I haven't voted myself, much as I do like the Class 20s (and indeed have a Farish D8000 in early BR Green) I cannot really justify that many "rule 1" locos these days.

Good luck though.

Roy


Offline Roy L S

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2016, 12:04:35 pm »
Hello all,

I think the 20/3 is a great idea, and certainly one Mike and I have talked about before.

The issues are that the obvious candidate to do it (due to having suitable chassis, bogies, and CAD) is Farish, but Bachmann have never worked with anyone that does not have an established retail premises, and on top of that have recently indicated they are going to be more selective about special commissions going forward.

Also, as far as Revolution Trains is concerned, we have the Pendolino, 320/321 and Class 92 at various stages of development and won't be proposing another powered model until we have delivered the Pendolino to supporters.

Cheers

Ben A.

Hi Ben

The one obvious exception to the retail premises rule Bachmann have is of course the NGS!!

Regards

Roy

Offline Ben A

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2016, 12:13:57 pm »

Hi Ben

The one obvious exception to the retail premises rule Bachmann have is of course the NGS!!

Regards

Roy

Hi Roy,

That took a *lot* of negotiation and we persuaded them that while strictly speaking we did not have a retail premises we were a fully functioning shop and we attended enough shows to justify their support.  Also, to be fair, I think we had a slight advantage in that because the market in N is (or at least, was) so much smaller there was felt to be less of a conflict.

What they wanted to avoid was the (in their view) bad old days of Lima limited editions being commissioned and sold mail order exclusively by people with no overheads other than a garage.

They are trying to protect their retailers, as they see that a healthy retail sector is in their own best interests.

Cheers

Ben A.



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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN -DRS Class 20/3
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2016, 12:33:17 pm »
Hi Gang,

Historically, the Farish Class 20s and now the Bachmann upgraded version have always been good sellers.....and they tend to hold their second hand value well too which is another positive indicator of their enduring popularity.

Add in the DRS factor in that they are a popular choice for the modeller and their ability to run short consists...another boon for modellers, mean that, IMHO, a bespoke Class 20/3 is likely to be less of a risk than many other niche models. With at least 3 livery variations, there is ample scope for exploration and multiple numbers per livery would give a base range of six locks at least....with more numbers available for recurring runs.

Some caution would need to be exercised as there are subtle differences between earlier 20/3 and later conversions...but small enough for some to discount as a major factor.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
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