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Author Topic: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3  (Read 42238 times)

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Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #135 on: December 31, 2015, 02:21:25 pm »

One thought I've pondered, could somebody produce overlays of spokes etched onto discs which could be stuck on? I've seen some etched spoked brake wheels (BHE9) and Mansell wheel overlays (Etched Pixels DET25) so tender wheels should not be a problem.

Sheets should have multiples of 6. I suspect UM tender wheels are all the same size so should be a doddle. Number of spokes per wheel do vary but I would have thought something near an average should work.

These would allow me to hack another T9 or two into the narrow cab and watercart tender version (see my sig below), having to source a Fleischmann tender drive makes for an expensive 4-4-0, compared to adding a pair of wheels.
Cheers MIKE
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Offline Ricardus Harfelde

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #136 on: December 31, 2015, 04:29:41 pm »

One thing with these is that they've all been fitted with Mashima 5 pole motors, which massively improves the slow speed performance and eliminates stickyness due to motor pole cogging, while keeping the massive pulling power of the original models.

I've done the same thing with mine after  reading an earlier post of yours recommending it, and I'd definitely second that as a top tip, thanks

However I was a bit clumsy removing one of the worms whilst doing this and managed to damage the thread, and haven't been able to fully restore it by filing. I was wondering if you could tell me what the specification for the worm is ?

Richard

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #137 on: December 31, 2015, 04:48:08 pm »
These would allow me to hack another T9 or two into the narrow cab and watercart tender version (see my sig below), having to source a Fleischmann tender drive makes for an expensive 4-4-0, compared to adding a pair of wheels.

Would Fleischmann wheels fit the UM drive?

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #138 on: December 31, 2015, 04:51:43 pm »
However I was a bit clumsy removing one of the worms whilst doing this and managed to damage the thread, and haven't been able to fully restore it by filing. I was wondering if you could tell me what the specification for the worm is ?


I think (*think*) they are MOD 0.3 (this is the tooth pitch), beyond that I know not much more - have you tried to obtain a few spares from UM? Some of these may suit also:

http://www.kbscale.com/motors-gears.html

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Online Atso

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #139 on: December 31, 2015, 06:06:25 pm »
Hi Alan, looking good with 2F upgrade! I'm sure that it'll be first class once you've finished with it!

I think (*think*) they are MOD 0.3 (this is the tooth pitch), beyond that I know not much more - have you tried to obtain a few spares from UM? Some of these may suit also:

http://www.kbscale.com/motors-gears.html


I'm not convinced that the worms are MOD 0.3 as they seem coarser than current Farish gears (which are or very close to MOD 0.3). Colin at UM is usually very good at supplying spares.

These would allow me to hack another T9 or two into the narrow cab and watercart tender version (see my sig below), having to source a Fleischmann tender drive makes for an expensive 4-4-0, compared to adding a pair of wheels.


Would Fleischmann wheels fit the UM drive?


I'm toying with the idea of using either Farish or Dapol LNER/LMS pacific Cartazzi wheels fitted with appropriate gears on a UM tender drive (Dapol Cartazzi wheels will just fit, don't know about Farish ones yet). I was going to use Bullfrog Snot as a substitute for traction tyres and rejig the tender for pickup on both sides.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #140 on: December 31, 2015, 06:07:56 pm »
I'm toying with the idea of using either Farish or Dapol LNER/LMS pacific Cartazzi wheels fitted with appropriate gears on a UM tender drive (Dapol Cartazzi wheels will just fit, don't know about Farish ones yet). I was going to use Bullfrog Snot as a substitute for traction tyres and rejig the tender for pickup on both sides.

Good luck with bullfrog snot - worst invention in the history of model rail contender for me tho!!

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #141 on: December 31, 2015, 06:09:43 pm »
For the T9 hack using the Fleischmann tender drive I had to add current collectors to the loco chassis, and also to the tender drive. It would be much easier to use the UM tender drive and add a pair of wheels, the Fleischmann wheels do have tyres butare insulated both sides so would need some fiddling to collect current from them in the way UM do, conductive paint is one possibility. That's why I suggest the spoke overlays.
Cheers MIKE
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Online Atso

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #142 on: December 31, 2015, 06:11:23 pm »
Good luck with bullfrog snot - worst invention in the history of model rail contender for me tho!!

I'll give it a go and let you know if I'll be seconding your nomination in the not so distant future!  :D  ;)

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #143 on: December 31, 2015, 06:14:15 pm »
I'll give it a go and let you know if I'll be seconding your nomination in the not so distant future!  :D  ;)

I just can't see how blobbing on some goo can result in anything other than rough or non-concentric wheel surfaces - something I've worked hard to eliminate on models. I think there must be better options - I'd much rather grind a groove for a proper traction tyre.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #144 on: December 31, 2015, 06:16:23 pm »
For the T9 hack using the Fleischmann tender drive I had to add current collectors to the loco chassis, and also to the tender drive. It would be much easier to use the UM tender drive and add a pair of wheels, the Fleischmann wheels do have tyres butare insulated both sides so would need some fiddling to collect current from them in the way UM do, conductive paint is one possibility. That's why I suggest the spoke overlays.

Yes, an etch is a decent idea - just wonder if you could get the a good enough depth to make it noticable. It is a shame there's no current viable alternative wheel that could be dropped in - the need for traction tyres makes it all the more difficult.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #145 on: December 31, 2015, 06:24:33 pm »
Another hour and a half spent on the 2F, and the front end detail has been mostly completed, cab side rails fitted and new tender filler fitted.





The buffers are N-brass, as is the tender filler. The stoneguards are from scrap etch, as is the coupling hook. Don't chuck the old buffers (these are separate, and with care pull out) - they are handy spares for other UM locos in case they lose a buffer head.

Total time so far only ~4 Hours.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline CarriageShed

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #146 on: January 01, 2016, 12:47:51 am »
...It would be much easier to use the UM tender drive and add a pair of wheels. The Fleischmann wheels do have tyres but are insulated both sides...

Question from an engineering and electrical thickie, does the extra wheel need to be conductive at all? Wouldn't a best-match plastic or isolated metal be just as good?

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #147 on: January 01, 2016, 10:46:10 am »
...It would be much easier to use the UM tender drive and add a pair of wheels. The Fleischmann wheels do have tyres but are insulated both sides...

Question from an engineering and electrical thickie, does the extra wheel need to be conductive at all? Wouldn't a best-match plastic or isolated metal be just as good?

The extra wheel doesn't need to be conductive, I usually use a wheel from a pony truck or bogie, in some cases I use the complete pony truck, fixing it to where the drawbar would fit at the front of the UM drive. That works quite well under a BHE N15 tender body the extra weight really does give exceptional pulling power, however the Watercart tender had inside bearings so the lack of spokes on the UM wheels does show!

Cheers MIKE
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Offline CarriageShed

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #148 on: January 01, 2016, 02:53:14 pm »
...however the Watercart tender had inside bearings so the lack of spokes on the UM wheels does show!

At the most basic level, perhaps spoked wheel 'flats' could be printed off and stuck to the solid UM wheels?

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
« Reply #149 on: January 01, 2016, 04:59:12 pm »
If you look at this page in  Etched pixels/Ultima catalogue,
http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/comp-detail.html
 scroll down to item DET25, Mansell wheel overlays, if that works for coaches/wagons then something very similar should be possible for spokes; the Langley rebuilt MN and Q1 kits included box pok overlays to fit over the wheels, so it's not exactly a new idea.
Cheers MIKE
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