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Poll

Would You Buy a Crowd Funded NBL Type 2 Diesel-Electric Locomotive in N Gauge?

No
31 (42.5%)
Yes - One Model
19 (26%)
Yes - Two Models
12 (16.4%)
Yes - More Than Two Models
5 (6.8%)
Yes - One Plus At Least One Dummy
6 (8.2%)

Total Members Voted: 71

Author Topic: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study  (Read 19752 times)

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ScottyStitch

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Offline Stuart7358

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2015, 01:09:43 pm »
Like someone else said on here I had a Hornby class 29 when younger (and still have put away somewhere) and it was always one of the ones that was run as often as possible. So even though a class 29 (21) is totally out of the area that interests me I would buy at least one. Being a smaller diesel it would fit in well with the 33, 24, 20  etc that I aim to run on my planned layout.

Hope you manage to make the case for it and move it on to the next stage. 

Offline Roy L S

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2015, 02:30:40 pm »
I would certainly have a couple of these were there sufficient demand to warrant production.

Roy

Offline ohlavache

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2015, 09:50:25 pm »
I didn't know this locomotive. But it's really a lovely one.
I would definitively have one !
 :bounce:
I hope it will get through the selection process.

Offline scruff

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2015, 09:44:36 pm »
I get the feeling that the 21/29 is in Dapol's sights after they produce the OO one.

This is what they said yesterday...

", the OO Class 21/29 is now well underway. We have no current plans to make an N Gauge 21/29 but may look at this if the OO gauge version is successful."


Cheers
Mark
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 09:46:33 pm by scruff »

ScottyStitch

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2015, 10:04:06 pm »
I get the feeling that the 21/29 is in Dapol's sights after they produce the OO one.

This is what they said yesterday...

", the OO Class 21/29 is now well underway. We have no current plans to make an N Gauge 21/29 but may look at this if the OO gauge version is successful."


Cheers
Mark

That's right Scruff, but that means at least two years down the lines realistically, possibly more. But:

1) Part of my proposal hinges on Dapol perhaps being helped along by releasing funds to the them, through crowdsourcing, which they don't have as it's tied up in other projects.

2) Even if the OO version "fails", there is still a desire for it N Gauge.

What is the definition of a "OO" failure? If it is only selling 1000, of a 3-5000 unit production batch then that would seem to fit nicely within  RevolutioN's (or anyone else who wants to take it on) remit for a 'niche' product that no-one wants to take on in N. On top of that, RevolutioN are suggesting they'd try and produce all livery varients within that 1000 unit batch. This helps, because it catches every modelling period in one go. Dapol, on their own, are very unlikely to do that.

Just some thoughts.

Offline red_death

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2015, 10:06:01 pm »
I don't think that is necessarily a problem - our idea is that we can provide a mechanism to demonstrate that a market exists and where necessary orders and cash to a manufacturer!

As an aside I'm also far from convinced that the 4mm market is a reliable indicator of the 2mm market - I'm sure it works for some models, but not for all.

Cheers, Mike



ScottyStitch

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2015, 10:59:59 pm »
Adding scope to the operating area, and as alluded to in earlier pictures, the Class 21s also initially operated out of KIngs Cross (Hence shedding at Hornesy), on the GN mainline as far as Cambridge.

They could therefore be seen in the company of BRCW Type 2s (Dapol) and Brush Type 2s (Farish - soon) and and the English Electric Baby Deltics (DJM - Sometime).

Scotty

ScottyStitch

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2015, 11:05:45 pm »
Fancy recreating this lovely scene....:

http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic.php/30639/ipsw.jpg



Incidentally, the following info, gleaned from BR Database regarding D6127:

"While working the 15:15 Buchanan Street - Dundee service (in tandem with another NBL Type 1), D6127 caught fire - the intensity was such that the locomotive's bodywork was burnt right through. The loco went in to store at various locations around Scotland over the next 5 years before being finally condemned at the end of 1967 - a working life of less than 2 years."
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 11:08:44 pm by ScottyStitch, Reason: Additional information »

ScottyStitch

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2015, 11:14:47 pm »
Again from BR Database, the following was recorded as workings for D6123:

13/08/1963      Sightings   Worked the Aston - Gushetfaulds "Condor" throughout from Birmingham to Glasgow   
3/08/1963              Sightings   Worked the Gushetfaulds - Aston "Condor" throughout to Birmingham   
21/08/1963      Sightings   Worked the Aston - Gushetfaulds "Condor" throughout from Birmingham to Glasgow   
21/08/1963      Sightings   Worked the Gushetfaulds - Aston "Condor" throughout to Birmingham   


And so there appears to be evidence of these "Scottish" machines working the WCML. I will do more research on this tomorrow, but for now it makes for compelling reading. Maybe those who do not have Scottish layouts, can justify one or two of these engines, if they require the justification  :)

ScottyStitch

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2015, 09:26:07 am »
Some more interesting information courtesy of BR Database:

 
10/09/1968 - Evidence of 21s on the east coast route to Aberdeen.
 
Sightings
 
D1974 ran low on fuel while working the 10:20 Edinburgh - Aberdeen at barry Links. D6100 in blue took over for the rest of the run.


05/07/1963 - Interesting double header. I wonder which was in front?
 
Sightings
 
D6115 and Black Five 44796 worked the Perth - Carlisle section of the 20:15 Perth - Kensington Olympia


17/12/1967
 
Sightings
 
At Edinburgh Waverley


02/10/1968
 
Sightings
 
D6129 arrived at Waverley from Bonar Bridge with a 3 coach special conveying Sheik Zaid of Abu Dhabi. The occupants had been on a shooting party. The train was taken on to Kings Cross by D1971 (1F50)


15/10/1965
 
Sightings
 
D6142 and D6145 worked the very last Royal Train from Ballater to Aberdeen



ScottyStitch

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2015, 10:18:33 am »
And another oddity. I think we've mentioned the first class 29 conversion not getting the headcode boxes.

However, perhaps more intriguing is D6109. It was slated for conversion to a class 29, had it's body-side grills modified as per the above drawings, AND got a headcode box. The engine, however, was never fitted and it remained a class 21, albeit with the other mods.

It made it to blue livery, and it got a headcode box, and so it was the only Class 21 to do either.

Information courtesy of the Class21/29 Appreciation Group, on Facebook.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_04_2014/post-19900-0-80748700-1397139023.jpg
 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 10:42:18 am by ScottyStitch, Reason: Photograph added »

ScottyStitch

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2015, 12:52:56 pm »
According to the facebook group, the NBL drawings are held in the Glasgow University Archives. So a quick call to them with the order numbers (L79 and L94). It turns out however, that the diesel drawings went to either the Ballast Trust or the Mitchell Library in Glasgow. The problem is that the drawings, if they are still in existence are unsorted and uncatalogued and therefore almost impossible to find as yet....... However, it may be that the glass slides of the drawings (?) were passed to Andrew Barclay (presumably when NBL went bust) for effecting any repairs on the locomotives.

The most helpful archivist said she will try and find out all she can about what exists and where. Turn around time is likely to be 20 days for that information.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 01:00:48 pm by ScottyStitch »

Offline Arrachogaidh

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2015, 12:57:22 pm »

05/07/1963 - Interesting double header. I wonder which was in front?
 
Sightings
 
D6115 and Black Five 44796 worked the Perth - Carlisle section of the 20:15 Perth - Kensington Olympia




From Derby Sulzers web, yes I know it's a Class 24 but in general I think this was the arrangement.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

ScottyStitch

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Re: NBL Type 2 Class 21/29 - A Crowdfunded Case Study
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2015, 12:59:05 pm »
What a cracking image!

 

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