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Poll

N gauge Pendolino

Yes I'd invest in a crowd sourcing venture for a 9 car N gauge Pendolino
62 (36.7%)
No I wouldn't
76 (45%)
I have voted on the RMWeb poll so cannot vote here
31 (18.3%)

Total Members Voted: 167

Author Topic: Pendolino - a new approach  (Read 270879 times)

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Offline Caz

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2014, 07:00:08 pm »
Just dreaming,  :angel:  they actually electrify the WR before the Pendolino is old hat and they appear in FGW Dynamic Lines livery, they would look really fantastic and then I'd have one.   :)

Offline Brooksy

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2014, 08:15:02 pm »
Hi, question for those in the know: what are the risks involved in this project? If 250 is handed over, is the pendolino 100% guaranteed to drop through my letter box in a couple of years from now? What about if the prices of components go up, DJ models goes under, or other unspecified mishap? Could we all end up with nothing.  :'(

I want it so am definitely after one. I also agree with what Ben (I think) said on RMWeb that the resale value would be at least as high as the initial price so am tempted to get another one to help the project out, but if there is a real risk of it not working then I can't afford to lose 500 (I can't afford to lose 250, but I'm willing to take a punt on that). Maybe I'll order one initially and then if it's tantalisingly close to the 1000 unit mark wade in with another one. I also don't want to rob people of the opportunity of getting their own if it turns out that the 1000 mark is, in fact, easily reached.

Cheers,

Brooksy


Offline Roy L S

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2014, 08:57:23 pm »
Hi, question for those in the know: what are the risks involved in this project? If 250 is handed over, is the pendolino 100% guaranteed to drop through my letter box in a couple of years from now? What about if the prices of components go up, DJ models goes under, or other unspecified mishap? Could we all end up with nothing.  :'(

I want it so am definitely after one. I also agree with what Ben (I think) said on RMWeb that the resale value would be at least as high as the initial price so am tempted to get another one to help the project out, but if there is a real risk of it not working then I can't afford to lose 500 (I can't afford to lose 250, but I'm willing to take a punt on that). Maybe I'll order one initially and then if it's tantalisingly close to the 1000 unit mark wade in with another one. I also don't want to rob people of the opportunity of getting their own if it turns out that the 1000 mark is, in fact, easily reached.

Cheers,

Brooksy

I do not think that Ben and Mike have revealed the exact detail just yet, but first thing to say is that you only part with your cash if the funding target (number of pledges required) is met.

Then, as I understand it funds will be held in a "trust" account for "backers" and agreed tranches paid out only as various "milestones" in the project are achieved.

I am sure others will be able to provide more detail, but this is my understanding of the general idea.

Regards

Roy

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2014, 09:06:16 pm »
Ben and I are still working through all the details, but roughly:

- no money changes hands unless the funding requirement is met
- the funding requirement will be based on a contract with DJ Models (Dave Jones will assess what contingencies he needs to build in for his contract with his manufacturer, as will Ben and I from our side)
- if the project meets its funding targets then the pledges will be charged to people's cards
- the money collected will be held in a bank account specifically for this project with Ben and I as signatories (and requiring both of us to authorise any payments)
- Ben and I will authorise staged payments to DJM as the project progresses with pre-agreed conditions and milestones

If it is any re-assurance I am a tight northerner who hates spending my or other people's money!  Ben and I have experience of managing these sorts of projects as does Dave. So I won't lie and say that there is no risk, but just that we will do all that is possible to manage and control that risk.

Cheers, Mike



Offline Pengi

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2014, 09:13:26 pm »
Just dreaming,  :angel:  they actually electrify the WR before the Pendolino is old hat and they appear in FGW Dynamic Lines livery, they would look really fantastic and then I'd have one.   :)


Yes - it looks gorgeous in FGW  :heart2:

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Just one Pendolino, give it to me, a beautiful train, from Italy

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2014, 09:23:58 pm »
PS one thing I should have added is that Kickstarter's terms of use state that if the project fails then the project co-ordinators should refund backers, though understandably Kickstarter does not guarantee that.

Cheers, Mike



Online njee20

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2014, 10:42:44 pm »
I didn't think any money even exchanged hands if you don't hit the total. I've never heard of anyone losing money on an unsuccessful bid...

Offline Pengi

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2014, 06:42:39 am »
A key thing for me is getting the contours correct on the front of the Pendolino. I have read that they are quite complex - how confident are you that you will be able to achieve the iconic Pendolino look?
Just one Pendolino, give it to me, a beautiful train, from Italy

Offline Michael Shillabeer

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2014, 08:16:38 am »
In my experience a good Kickstarter project once funded has regular (at least monthly, if not more) updates to give confidence to the backers.

Even an update saying "no progress" is better than silence.

As the funds raised will be released to DJM in stages would it be appropriate for this project to publish regular financial accounts to backers?

Is 250,000 enough to cover the project and Kickstarter's (or whoever's) fees?

Hopefully, there will be more interest in this than the Australian Garrett that was a Kickstarter project https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1560185090/n-scale-nswgr-ad60-garratt-locomotive

Good luck guys, I've added my yes vote to this poll!

Best regards
Michael

Offline captainelectra

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2014, 09:01:23 am »
I agree regular updates to subscribers are essential for a good Kicksarter project but don't overdo it!

Recently, I subscribed to a Kickstarter to fund a movie adaptation of HP Lovecraft's Dreamland stories. Every day, I was bombarded with two or three mails promoting the project and repeating the same releases that I had to unsubscribe for the sake of my sanity!
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Offline MikeDunn

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2014, 09:18:47 am »
Recently, I subscribed to a Kickstarter to fund a movie adaptation of HP Lovecraft's Dreamland stories.
Hadn't heard about this !

Can't say I look forwards to it ... I can imagine they'll bugger it up like 99% of book adaptions (LOTR being an exception) ...

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2014, 09:22:38 am »
I didn't think any money even exchanged hands if you don't hit the total. I've never heard of anyone losing money on an unsuccessful bid...

Yes, funds get paid over once the total required is reached, all held in what is effectively a "trust" account on behalf of the backers.

Then the design, tooling, EPs etc will need to be funded, hence the stage payments. It is highly unlikely (I think) that any manufacturer would risk that kind of financial outlay (250k) on a "kickstarter" and not expect a penny to be paid to them until delivery.

Regards

Roy

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2014, 10:05:18 am »
A key thing for me is getting the contours correct on the front of the Pendolino. I have read that they are quite complex - how confident are you that you will be able to achieve the iconic Pendolino look?

Very confident (due to the information we have available).

Cheers, Mike



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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2014, 09:45:17 am »
I didn't think any money even exchanged hands if you don't hit the total. I've never heard of anyone losing money on an unsuccessful bid...

Yes, funds get paid over once the total required is reached, all held in what is effectively a "trust" account on behalf of the backers.

Then the design, tooling, EPs etc will need to be funded, hence the stage payments. It is highly unlikely (I think) that any manufacturer would risk that kind of financial outlay (250k) on a "kickstarter" and not expect a penny to be paid to them until delivery.

Regards

Roy

My point was in response to Mike saying they had to refund people if the project failed, I was thinking that to mean "didn't reach the target", ie there'd be no refunds because no money had been taken, but on reflection assume he meant if it flounders a year down the line.

Offline Brooksy

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2014, 10:07:36 am »
My point was in response to Mike saying they had to refund people if the project failed, I was thinking that to mean "didn't reach the target", ie there'd be no refunds because no money had been taken, but on reflection assume he meant if it flounders a year down the line.

Indeed. My point is: what if project achieves 1000 pledges, money is taken, held in trust, etc. and then it all goes wrong before the model is finished and half the money has already been used? Do we get the remainder of the money back?

 

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