N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: trkilliman on October 13, 2017, 01:39:57 pm

Title: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on October 13, 2017, 01:39:57 pm
Just a general enquiry here... Modelmaster decals.

Has you purchased any in recent times?

If so how was the service now you order direct from M/Master?
 
Are the prices similar to when they were within the NGS shop, or have they risen in cost noticeably?
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on October 13, 2017, 01:52:52 pm
I ordered nameplates in July and still yet to receive. Reminds me I need to get onto them...

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PaulCheffus on October 13, 2017, 03:53:18 pm
Hi

I've not bought any yet as the ones I want haven't appeared on the website. Prices even with discount seem to be higher than they were from the NGS shop.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on October 13, 2017, 05:47:14 pm
Well, I hope that we get a few more replies/opinions during the next day or two.

I looked at the Modelmaster website earlier today, and was a bit taken aback at the prices shown.

As you say Paul even with the 10% members discount they do seem noticeably more expensive. It may be my imagination or suspicious nature, this is why others comments will be welcome.

I do recall reading that when the stocktake was done after the joint long term shop resignation, there were huge stocks of many decals. I will assume that these had been purchased at lowish/preferential prices over some time.
What has happened to all of these decals, are they now with Modelmaster?
Has some or all of the former NGS shop become subject to re-pricing?

I have recently had some high quality decals custom made, and they work out about 25% more expensive than the full price of an equivalent sized sheet at Modelmasters full price.

I have always felt that the decals along with the NGS kits, and special commisions are a big draw/benefit of membership. I hope that handing the sale of the decals back to M/masters doesn't result in periodic price hikes. I would translate this as a loss of a membership benefit.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: RailGooner on October 13, 2017, 07:18:00 pm
I bought some nameplates back in April, as soon as MJE began selling the ex-NGS stock.

I know it's been explained on here, how it was necessary to slim down the NGS Shop if it was to continue. And how the MJE solution provided the best chance of NGS members actually being able to buy the Modelmaster range. And, for me at least, that hope was borne out - I was able to order and receive within a week, the nameplates that for an age I'd wanted to but couldn't buy from the NGS Shop. I didn't notice whether I was paying more, but at £9.81 (inc. P&P before NGS discount) for a set of nameplates, I'm not complaining.

But Alan's experience sounds very opposite to mine and is an account of terrible service - not the experience the NGS had hoped for us.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on October 14, 2017, 07:45:20 am
I ordered some etched nameplates at the beginning of August, they took my money and according to the website the order is being processed but trying to find out any more information has been frustrating, two unanswered emails so far.

I had wanted to change the delivery address but have no idea whether they have received the relevant email. I donít mind waiting a bit for the plates but the lack of communication is very frustrating. Iím beginning to wonder if Iíll ever get the nameplates. If I wasnít in Africa Iíd phone them.

I didnít expect same day service but this is a bit much.


Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: broadsword on October 14, 2017, 09:24:26 am
Apart from etched nameplates are Modelmaster decals similar to those
from Fox Transfers ? I phoned an order to Fox at 3pm a while ago
and the goods arrived the following morning.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: thebrighton on October 14, 2017, 09:36:10 am
Over the years I found the Modelmaster ones to be of mixed quality especially with lining where the different colours could be offset. Never had any issues with Fox ones.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Farmer chap on October 14, 2017, 12:37:13 pm
Hi trkilliman,

I'd be interested to know where you had the custom made decals produced as I'm in the market for

 some on a kit I'm building.

Cheers Ian
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Lindi on October 14, 2017, 01:17:11 pm
As you say Paul even with the 10% members discount they do seem noticeably more expensive. It may be my imagination or suspicious nature, this is why others comments will be welcome.

The NGS members discount is 25%.

The name plates I purchased were actually slightly cheaper than they were at NGS shop. Also the postage was only £1.99 rather than £4.00
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on October 14, 2017, 02:11:47 pm
Railtec are good for custom made transfers. I've used them in the past and was very happy with their service.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PaulCheffus on October 14, 2017, 05:11:14 pm
Railtec are good for custom made transfers. I've used them in the past and was very happy with their service.


Hi

However you may need to wait awhile before you get them. Two years later I'm still waiting for some custom transfers to finish my Polybulks. The wait when they do turn up though will have been worth it as they are very good quality.

Precision decals are another option. I had some printed from my own artwork recently. I paid £25 for an A4 sheet of black and white transfers.

www.precisionlabels.com (http://www.precisionlabels.com)

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on October 14, 2017, 05:52:50 pm
Railtec were fine delivery wise but it was a few years ago, they all seem to have delivery problems, I just wish they would communicate better.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: RichardBenn on October 16, 2017, 10:30:52 am
I have two Modelmaster orders outstanding since June. I spoke to him a couple of months back and he said that the hold up was because (a) he hadn't realised that the NGS had renumbered everything and (b) the packs were all mixed up and required a lot of sorting.

I second the comments about Railtec. Very good quality and fast service for standard items but I've been waiting over two years for some custom DMU transfers.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on October 16, 2017, 11:45:45 am
Farmer chap.

I have sent you a reply...look in your forum message box.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on October 23, 2017, 05:26:24 am
I keep on getting Modelmaster promotional emails which are really irritating because they still haven't replied to my queries about my order.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on October 23, 2017, 11:39:12 am
The replies so far are from people not too impressed with Modelmaster.

Has putting all of our NGS decal stock with Modelmaster resulted in an inferior service to members?
Has the price of the shop decals been increased by Modelmaster?

I have registered with them, giving my NGS membership number. Does this automatically deduct 25% from any order/s I place?

Their website is a bit vague. I am after some bus fleetname decals, namely Crosville, United Welsh and Royal Blue. When these were listed in our shop list it would say e.g 3 pairs of southdown, 3 pairs of royal Blue on one sheet.
Looking at their website it says Crosville, £4.32. Is this now for a pair, 3 pairs, 6 pairs?

It may have been convenient to hand our decal stock over to Modelmaster, but are members getting the same service/deal?

As I have said several times I consider the decals, kits and special commisions to be the Jewel in the Crown of membership. Has one of these Jewels lost it's shine a little?
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: RichardBenn on October 23, 2017, 12:00:55 pm
I have registered with them, giving my NGS membership number. Does this automatically deduct 25% from any order/s I place?

When I spoke to him I asked about this as I too had previously registered as per the instructions and not had any acknowledgment. He confirmed that the discount had not been applied to my order but he would refund the difference when the order was processed. I got the impression that he had not yet got around to processing the NGS registrations.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on October 23, 2017, 12:50:05 pm
I keep on getting Modelmaster promotional emails which are really irritating because they still haven't replied to my queries about my order.

I'd agree - why are they trying to drum up yet more business when they don't seem to be servicing the orders they do have (or at least communicating to purchasers what's going on).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on October 23, 2017, 02:32:04 pm
Am I alone in feeling disenchanted reading these tales of Modelmaster?

The membership have been quite patient over a long period during the aftermath of what transpired with the shop. Have things decal wise gone from bad to slightly worse maybe?

It has to be said in fairness though, that when the shop stock was in Jaywick you could order and invariably have your order delivered within days. This of course does not diminish what eventually came to light.

Whilst the decision was taken to dramatically reduce shop stock, has handing "our" shop decals back to Modelmaster been the success/seamless transition that had been anticipated?

I'm now thinking that some comment/s from the committee on this hand over would be welcome.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: woodbury22uk on October 23, 2017, 04:01:20 pm

Their website is a bit vague. I am after some bus fleetname decals, namely Crosville, United Welsh and Royal Blue. When these were listed in our shop list it would say e.g 3 pairs of southdown, 3 pairs of royal Blue on one sheet.
Looking at their website it says Crosville, £4.32. Is this now for a pair, 3 pairs, 6 pairs?


.


You could easily miss the announcement on the homepage which says all decals are sold in pairs.

https://modelmaster.uk/
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on October 23, 2017, 05:03:44 pm
Yes Woodbury22uk, I noticed this. States when something occurs on both sides of a loco or vehicles they are sold in pairs. This had me wondering if bus fleetnames are now sold as a singular pair...at £4.32 -25%, if it seems, you are fortunate enough to get the brokered/agreed discount.

As I said their website is a bit vague, so you cannot be sure what you are going to receive. Would I want to pay this for a pair of fleetnames?  Personally no. I might consider having some custom made from a chap who has done some work for me recently.

As I said from our shop we could buy 2x 3 pairs. We were told the shop was carrying huge stocks of decals, which have been passed back to their manufacturer Modelmaster. to oversee their sale to members.

I'm interested to know the actual outcome of this move for us paid up NGS members. 
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Lindi on October 23, 2017, 05:27:05 pm
Would this discussion not be more appropriate to ngs@groups.io group.as it is a N Gauge Society matter?

Someone from the NGS committee will then be able to pick it up and find out what is going on.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PLD on October 23, 2017, 05:45:30 pm
I've dealt directly with Modelmaster for years. Never had any problem with communication or speed of delivery. Deliveries have got a bit slower (by maybe a day or two) than previous since they took on distribution to NGS members (presumably as a result of the additional volume of orders to be dealt with) but still usually with me in under a week.

If NGS members' orders are taking longer, perhaps it is due to the additional admin involved in cross referencing vs membership lists to confirm you qualify for the members' discount? In which case, that's the trade-off you have chosen - lower price vs slower service...
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Lindi on October 23, 2017, 05:49:55 pm
If NGS members' orders are taking longer, perhaps it is due to the additional admin involved in cross referencing vs membership lists to confirm you qualify for the members' discount? In which case, that's the trade-off you have chosen - lower price vs slower service...

The discount is set up against the NGS members account with Modelmaster and then applied automatically at the checkout
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: red_death on October 23, 2017, 10:02:10 pm
Am I alone in feeling disenchanted reading these tales of Modelmaster?

The membership have been quite patient over a long period during the aftermath of what transpired with the shop. Have things decal wise gone from bad to slightly worse maybe?

It has to be said in fairness though, that when the shop stock was in Jaywick you could order and invariably have your order delivered within days. This of course does not diminish what eventually came to light.

Whilst the decision was taken to dramatically reduce shop stock, has handing "our" shop decals back to Modelmaster been the success/seamless transition that had been anticipated?

I'm now thinking that some comment/s from the committee on this hand over would be welcome.

It was the only viable solution for two reasons - the NGS was holding too much stock which it couldn't sell and secondly an issue of manpower being used most effectively.

If your NGS discount is not being applied then please contact Modelmaster.  I'm afraid that we don't have any control over Modelmaster's manpower!

The alternative would have either been no NGS discount or potentially the loss of Modelmaster N gauge items.

Cheers, Mike

(NGS Committee member)

OK,
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: ScottishModeller on October 23, 2017, 10:24:43 pm
Hi all,

Never had a problem with getting decals at the society discount rate.

Latest lot dropped through the letterbox 8 days after order was sent.

Please be aware that Jim (and his Mrs) have health issues that may affect delivery times.

Thanks
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Jerry Howlett on October 24, 2017, 07:49:56 am
From here in Italy I haven't been able to access their web-site for the last week.

Jerry

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Lindi on October 24, 2017, 09:18:50 am
From here in Italy I haven't been able to access their web-site for the last week.

Jerry

https://modelmaster.uk/

Is working OK from from the UK, France and USA
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Jerry Howlett on October 24, 2017, 12:11:50 pm
Just get this all the time....  Suggestions on a E50 note would be appreciated.

This site canít be reached

modelmaster.uk took too long to respond.
Try:
Checking the connection
Checking the proxy and the firewall
Running Windows Network Diagnostics
ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Jerry Howlett on October 26, 2017, 10:22:41 am
Got it !!!  Had to go through with a VPN connection!!  At least I can watch BBC now!

Jerry
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: emjaybee on October 26, 2017, 11:06:06 am
Ah yes, the Blairite Broadcasting Corporation.

Glad your back connected.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: RichardBenn on November 22, 2017, 04:03:22 pm
I have two Modelmaster orders outstanding since June. I spoke to him a couple of months back and he said that the hold up was because (a) he hadn't realised that the NGS had renumbered everything and (b) the packs were all mixed up and required a lot of sorting.

I have just received one of my two orders so things must be moving, albeit rather slowly.......

Richard
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on November 22, 2017, 11:47:23 pm
I have received 2 out of 3 of my orders now, and I have to say I never actually contacted Modelmaster to nudge them along. So I think it's fair to say that they are on the task, even if it is taking a bit of time.

The first Farish Castle can be renumbered now :)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on November 23, 2017, 04:32:51 am
I've more or less given up on ever seeing my order or getting a response to my emails. I think it would be good business practice for Modelmaster to state somewhere on their website that some orders are taking a long time to process.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 23, 2017, 12:15:30 pm
Hi

At least you can order the ones you want. I'm still waiting for the ones I require to appear on the website. Back in April I was told it would be a few weeks, well its now nearly December and they still haven't appeared.

I've given up and managed to get what I require by other means and I won't bother with them in future.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on November 23, 2017, 12:56:26 pm
I sent them an email several days back but have heard nothing.

I am interested in some bus fleetnames as we used to buy from the NGS shop. IIRC we used to get two different fleetnames and 3 pairs of each in a packet from the shop. The Modelmaster website appears to show them as a pair of fleetnames, and at a price I would be loathe to pay for a single pair, even with our discount. I'd like them but they are not a must have.  It does say somewhere on their website that where decals appear either side of a loco etc they are sold in pairs.

What I want to establish is if we are now getting a single pair of bus fleetname decals. Some of their website is still under construction or awaiting photos, so I have asked them direct. I think it's a fair question to ask so their is no misunderstanding when placing an order. If I get a reply I'll let others on here know their answer
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: red_death on November 24, 2017, 10:40:02 am
Folks

I suggest people post complaints about this on the NGS groups.io list (or email the NGS Committee: committee@ngaugesoc.... etc)that way the relevant people are more likely to see it.

I think it is important that people tell the right people what is (not) happening. I will try to raise it but life is a bit tricky at the moment with house moves and it is always better to hear first hand experiences.

Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 24, 2017, 11:07:27 am
I sent them an email several days back but have heard nothing.

I am interested in some bus fleetnames as we used to buy from the NGS shop. IIRC we used to get two different fleetnames and 3 pairs of each in a packet from the shop. The Modelmaster website appears to show them as a pair of fleetnames, and at a price I would be loathe to pay for a single pair, even with our discount. I'd like them but they are not a must have.  It does say somewhere on their website that where decals appear either side of a loco etc they are sold in pairs.

What I want to establish is if we are now getting a single pair of bus fleetname decals. Some of their website is still under construction or awaiting photos, so I have asked them direct. I think it's a fair question to ask so their is no misunderstanding when placing an order. If I get a reply I'll let others on here know their answer


There is nothing on the website to suggest that bus fleetnames are not sold in pairs. A non-NGS buyer would have no knowledge of previous practice, so only the expectation of a pair which is what is stated clearly on the website.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on November 24, 2017, 02:15:04 pm
I sent them an email several days back but have heard nothing.

I am interested in some bus fleetnames as we used to buy from the NGS shop. IIRC we used to get two different fleetnames and 3 pairs of each in a packet from the shop. The Modelmaster website appears to show them as a pair of fleetnames, and at a price I would be loathe to pay for a single pair, even with our discount. I'd like them but they are not a must have.  It does say somewhere on their website that where decals appear either side of a loco etc they are sold in pairs.

What I want to establish is if we are now getting a single pair of bus fleetname decals. Some of their website is still under construction or awaiting photos, so I have asked them direct. I think it's a fair question to ask so their is no misunderstanding when placing an order. If I get a reply I'll let others on here know their answer


There is nothing on the website to suggest that bus fleetnames are not sold in pairs. A non-NGS buyer would have no knowledge of previous practice, so only the expectation of a pair which is what is stated clearly on the website.

woodbury22uk,

Yes a non-NGS member would have no previous knowledge of what used to be, so would only expect a pair of bus fleetnames. However, for those of us who have been NGS members for some years, I'm fairly certain that when the decals were in the hands of the NGS you would receive e.g 3 pairs of Royal Blue and 3 pairs of Southdown.
I am merely trying to establish IF handing back the "huge stocks" of decals that were in our shop has resulted in what appears to a considerable price hike. This is the way it seems, so I have asked the question of Modelmaster themselves. I await a reply.

I would just like some clarification of what I would now get for my money now (our) stock has been either given/sold back to the manufacturers... Modelmaster. Once the situation regarding decals becomes clearer NGS members will be able to make their own minds up as to whether they feel we have lost one of our membership benefits. Unless I am wrong it certainly looks this way to me. What I will say is that yesterday 2 other long term NGS members came to my home for a get-together. All three of us are now beginning to consider our renewals when they occur.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: carlwooduk on December 22, 2017, 01:36:19 pm
WARNING ABOUT ORDERING WITH M J E.
`I am concerned about the service being provided by M J E. having placed and paid in full for an order for " in stock " items on 10 oct and numerous phone calls assuring me part of my order would be posted immediately / rest to follow within 10 days nothing has been delivered.
2 emails requesting my order to be cancelled and refund- no reply.

2 phone calls this week - phone rings  & rings then voicemail states this mail box if full - goodbye!

I have emailed N Gauge soceity Committe memeber but was underwhelmed by their reply; they did comment they had hear rumblings.
Wish I had stuck with Fox.
Fellow modellers i would counsel against ordering anything with MJE. Lets hope the  Soceity can influence or dis-associates itself with Jim at MJE.
 :veryangry:

Regretably , i am going to write off my £40 paid by Debit card and place an order with Fox transfers who by comparission care about their customers.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Jerry Howlett on December 22, 2017, 03:06:30 pm
I was also disappointed with the response from them.

I tried to register as an NGS member but no response and when I tried an order it came out as full price :(

In addition his postage charge is £3:85 that's a hell of a lot more than the old NGS charge for transfers.

I found my transfers 21Ton Minerals on the Railtec site and they were very quick in responding to emails and the order arrived here in Italy within 5 days 2 of which we have no post!  Steve will consider also making any transfers if he has the details or you can supply them.

Jerry
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on December 22, 2017, 03:36:42 pm
I keep getting emails from them advertising things I don't want or need. That seems a bit pointless as he doesn't seem to be able to fulfill the existing orders! What I would like is a response to my query and my nameplates!

I did think he might be ill but if that is the case it would be easy to leave a message to that effect on the answering machine or website.

 >:(

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on December 22, 2017, 04:50:57 pm
Sadly it appears that the transfer of stock for them to has not been the best of moves. I have yet to get a reply to my question relating to bus company fleetnames.

I fully understand the reasons for disposing of the copious levels of NGS shop stock. Not so sure on the decals though.

The Modelmaster decals along with the society kits have always been a contributing factor to my continued membership of the NGS. I wonder how many feel the same as me on this point?

It was said that there were huge stocks of decals. These must surely have been accrued over a long period of time using society funds. I do question what sort of agreement was reached with Modelmaster on our behalf, given the problems NGS members are experiencing? There also appears to be a price hike on the decals, many of which were likely purchased by the NGS some while back.

My remarks may rankle a few, but this is not intentional. I think we need an assessment/explanation of just what has materialised from putting them back with the manufacturer.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: carlwooduk on December 22, 2017, 05:55:49 pm
Likewise, when i placed my order I was unable to secure the members discount. I  had  pre-registered that I was a N gauge society member as per Society instructions. When I spoke to Jim at M J E he admitted he had no way of getting the discount process  to work with his website and N G S knew this, all he could do was offer a % refund or credit note.  Clearly at odds with NGS shop website.

Another comment  from Jim that struck me as odd was  the  Plates / transfer stock had been handed over in a mess and some items were of degraded quality. Recognising  this additional work he secured a financial settlement; maybe  to offset part of what he paid NGS for stock.

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PaulinSouthMidlands on December 22, 2017, 07:12:20 pm
 I gave up waiting for the coach transfers to appear and ordered some custom transfers from Precision Labels.

http://www.precisionlabels.com (http://www.precisionlabels.com)

An entire sheet of A4 decal covered in carriage numbers set numbers etc. cost £25 and arrived virtually by return of post.


The catch is that you have to do your own artwork, which took a while but was well worth it.

Attached is the result
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/4772-221217191559.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=59625)
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: NeMo on December 22, 2017, 07:51:25 pm
I gave up waiting for the coach transfers to appear and ordered some custom transfers from Precision Labels.

Agreed, John Peck at PrecisionLabels is extremely responsive and his products are very good value. Whenever I've asked for such-and-such a number to redo a loco, he's been generous with the 'spares' on the sheet -- essential for me because I'm so ham-fisted at doing transfers it takes half a dozen goes to get everything just right!  :'(

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on January 12, 2018, 08:34:06 am
It seems as though I have made £10 donation to Modelmaster as yet another email requesting a delivery date for my nameplates has gone unanswered.

I'll have to chalk this one up to experience and vow never to do business with them again. I have been ordering from companies in the UK for over twenty years and this is the first time I have ever encountered such non-existent service and total lack of communication.

I realise that something serious could have happened to the proprietor but if that was the case he could have got word out to his customers somehow.

If I lived in the UK I would get onto the phone to them but living thousands of miles away would make a phone call a costly exercise.

If any forum members have heard anything please let me know.

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: middlefour on January 12, 2018, 02:48:51 pm
I think the N Gauge Society has done it's members a great disservice handing all the transfers back to Modelmaster. The web site is a mess, emails go unanswered. I thinks it is time for somebody in the NGS to look into what is going on. I will be using Fox from now on.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Shiney Sheff on January 12, 2018, 05:53:09 pm
I think the N Gauge Society has done it's members a great disservice handing all the transfers back to Modelmaster. The web site is a mess, emails go unanswered. I thinks it is time for somebody in the NGS to look into what is going on. I will be using Fox from now on.

I for one have to agree with you entirely. It's a complete mess.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: LongHairedDavid on January 16, 2018, 12:00:59 pm
On the NGS shop page it says "NGS members will automatically obtain a 25% discount providing they initially register with Modelmaster by emailing Robert@modelmaster.uk quoting their name, address and membership number, at least 24 hours before they submit their first order". I have sent my details but one week later, nothing so I am not expecting to order anything soon.

David
Ex - Main Man on the Sunset & North Eastern RR.
http://www.gmprblog.co.uk (http://www.gmprblog.co.uk)
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on January 16, 2018, 02:20:11 pm
I'm not actually an N Gauge Society member at present so the discount wouldn't apply to me. As a paying customer ordering through the website that shouldn't make a difference. It does sound as though all the N Gauge plates are in right mess.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on January 16, 2018, 06:57:32 pm
I have said a few times on here that for me the main benefits of NGS membership have been the society kits, special commisions, and the Modelmaster decals that were available to members at an attractive price.

I'm sure that I am not alone in saying I would appreciate, as a member, knowing what the deal was with handing the decals back to Modelmaster.

middlefour said on Jan12, " I think the NGS has done it's members a great disservice handing all the transfers back to Modelmaster"

There will be a lot of NGS members who do not use this forum, and others who do that prefer not to voice their opinion.  Maybe NGS renewals/non-renewals will  indicate how strongly members feel about the decals now out of the societies hands.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Shiney Sheff on January 17, 2018, 08:50:29 am
This is a copy of my original question with the answers about what has happened with the NGS plates. I assume I'm not infringing any copyright by posting here, if it is then Mods, please delete.

 ... 12/22/17   
Can someone give an honest answer to a bewildered member?

What on earth is the situation regarding name/number plates and transfers, there is so much speculation as to what has really happened to them? why is it not possible to get, what was previously readily available.
After all, I am sure many members like myself, joined the society to have plates/transfers available when we needed them, and not as some are saying, they have not received anything after months of waiting for their orders to arrive.

It seems as though all the stock previously held, bought and paid for by the members has vanished into thin air.
 Reply
 Like
 More
 Richard Elms 12/22/17   #440   
Edited 12/23/17
I donít see what the problem is, the society website quite clearly states "The Modelmaster range was made exclusively for the NGS and solely available from the NGS. However, given the sheer size of the range, the NGS has reached an agreement with Modelmaster to stock and sell all the transfers and nameplates, making it easier to find the item required.Ē see http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?page_id=55 (http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?page_id=55)
 
It is therefore quite possible to still get them from Modelmaster rather than the society. Their website is https://modelmaster.uk/. (https://modelmaster.uk/.) By registering in advance with Modelmaster you still get the Society discount.
 
Donít forget that the NGS  is run by volunteers, have you asked them directly about this, Iím sure it has been in past journals, there was an update in Journal 1/17.
 
 
. . .
 Reply
 Like
 More
 1 person liked this
 ... 12/22/17   
I thought that was the idea of this board, for members of the NGS to ask questions about their society? therefore bypassing having to contact the individuals that give their precious time to run the society.
 Reply
 Like
 More
 1 person liked this
 Julian Thornhill 12/22/17   #443 
This is what we are about, from this groupís home page:

This group is for N Gauge Society (NGS) members, for discussions and queries about NGS projects and the running of the society.

For example

Contents of the NGS web site
Ideas for new NGS kits or RTR
How the model making competition is organised and categories
Queries about events organised by the NGS for members
Questions about the NGS accounts
 

Information on the society may be posted here, for example about shop products coming back into stock.

 

Members of the NGS committee who are members of this group may respond directly; if not the moderators will ensure that matters are raised with the NGS committee when necessary. Postings by NGS committee members may not necessarily represent official NGS policy.

regards

Julian Thornhill

 Reply
 Like
 More
 . 12/22/17   
Julian, are you saying that because all plates and transfers have now been transferred to Modelmaster is is not a society matter anymore?
 Reply
 Like
 More
 Julian Thornhill 12/22/17   #445 
Iím not saying anything, other than reminding people of the purpose of this group. Iíd say that posing questions about what the NGS does and does not provide for its members is on topic. I hold no official position within the NGS.

Best wishes

Julian Thornhill
 Reply
 Like
 More
 Bob Harris 12/22/17   #446 
Thanks for clarifying Julian. With regard to the transfers I really cannot see what the problem is with ordering from Modelmaster direct. In fact it sometimes becomes easier to order direct from the originator...saves time and sometimes money.

Cheers

Bob



. . .
 Reply
 Like
 More
 Alan Reed 12/23/17   #447 
To bring the discussion right back to its original topic, the distribution of plates and transfers has never been ideal because the vaste stocks were inadequately catalogued and sorted.  A team of dedicated members spent many hours sorting the stocks and listing them on the Society Shop before the decision was taken to hand the distribution back to Modelmasters.  ALL the stocks were passed to Modelmasters -  Gill Reed and I personally delivered them to Scotland and handed them over.  The owner of Modelmasters (they are a small operation) were over-whelmed by the sheer volume and had to relist them all on their own website.  Distribution was slow initially but I understand that things have now improved. Although the distribution is being done by Modelmasters, the Society still benefits financially from every sale.

. . .
 Reply
 Like
 More
 1 person liked this
 Gdoe7@... 12/23/17   #448 
Alan, that is an interesting clarification thank you. Would you be able to further clarify whether the stocks held by NGS were sold back to Modelmasters or was it the case that the society did not have financial liability for the stock until there was an order from a member.

Regards
Graham Doe
 Reply
 Like
 More
 Alan Reed 12/23/17   #449 
I am no longer treasurer so cannot comment officially but the agreement entered into was that the stock remained the property of the Society (and will form part of the year-end stock) and sales proceeds collected my Modelmaster will be passed to the Society, after retaining an amount for expenses and commission.

. . .
 Reply
 Like
 More
  12/23/17   #450 
I have personally registered with Modelmaster to gain the NGS discount, but not ordered anything yet as, when reading other forums, there is a big problem with actually getting them delivered after order, (some are saying 2 months later nothing has arrived) One has to assume then, that when the plates/transfers were handed over, they were in no order, so need time and effort to be sorted by the recipient?

All I am after is clarification as to what exactly is happening, as there is a lot of rumour and speculation surrounding the state of play, one thing that does bother me regarding Alan's statement about the proceeds of sales coming back to the NGS, is if they are going to take so much time and effort to catalogue ready for sale, will there be anything left in the money pot? 
 Reply
 Like
 More
  Noel Leaver 12/23/17   #451 
To add to what Alan said, the transfers that were specific to particular kits but had been printed by Modelmaster were retained (in principle) though at the moment I'm trying to find out (in my role of transfers officer) exactly who in the NGS has what decals and how many. A few are listed in the NGS shop. The P.O. sides (for the PO wagon kit) however were returned to Modelmaster and are listed by Modelmaster. A few sheets for kits had also been sold separately by the shop, it is unclear where some of these are.

It is my aim to have transfers available for all the kits in time, I've done artwork for new sheets for 8 kits that have never had any, and am currently getting a test print of a couple.

Noel
 Reply
 Like
 More
 Alan Reed 12/23/17   #452 
I cannot comment about delivery times.  I personally placed an order and received it within 10 days.

No, it is not true that the plates and transfers were in "no order".  The transfers were generally in order and were counted approximately.  The plates were in full order and fully counted. 

There will be no cost incurred but, even if there was, the prime objective of the Committee at the time was to make the products available to its members as quickly as possible and it was felt that the best way of achieving this was to use the facilities offered by Modelmasters.

. . .
 Reply
 Like
 More
 Les Richardson 12/23/17   #453 
My experience so far.

I am still waiting a reply from Modelmaster to my email on 2nd October registering my NGS Number.  I have also yet to hear back from Modelmaster as to whether the plates I particularly want (which WERE on the NGS list and are NOT on the current Modelmaster list) will become available.

I have been told that plates for two of these locos do not exist.  I have yet to send back the photos of my locos running with plates that "don't exist" as supplied by Ray Hansen......

Needless to say I've been using Fox for those plates that they now do, and intend sending Fox a list of the gaps in the Modelmaster advertised range.

All the very best

Les

(one of my main reasons for joining the NGS in the first place was the availability of nameplates.  Another was the facility to join and renew at York show....)



 Reply
 Like
 More
 Richard Benn 12/23/17   #454 
My experience.

I registered for my NGS discount with Modelmaster as per the instructions when it was first announced.

I placed two orders in June this year for a number of products showing as in stock. The discount was not applied to my order.

After a couple of months and several unanswered emails I telephoned and spoke to the chap who said the delay was due to the fact that he had not been told that the transfers had been renumbered by the NGS and what he received required extensive sorting. He said that he would process the discount and send me a refund for the difference.

In December I received one of my two orders but no refund for the NGS discount. I emailed to ask about this and the other order but received no reply.

I'm not in any hurry for these items so I'm happy to wait but thought I'd share this (I've previously shared this on the NGF in response to a similar query).

Richard

--
Richard Benn
 Reply
 Like
 More
 chairman@... 12/30/17   #459 
One thing that Jim at ModelMaster does emphasise is that he does not have a lot of time for responding to emails (as a small business) so they tend to get overlooked (as anyone with a bulging inbox will tell you) and Jim says that if there are any problems, or if you need any info, it is best to ring him.

Some transfers were out of stock when MM took over and Jim's reordering process takes quite a few months as he has to deal with several suppliers and get as much into his orders as possible to keep prices down.

Richard (Chairman)

Bob
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: middlefour on January 17, 2018, 02:46:43 pm
Thanks for posting that. It is abundantly clear to me that the NGS haven't got a clue what is going on or how to sort it out. Was that on the so called 'official' NGS forum? One thing is also clear to me is that there needs to be a proper place on the NGS website to ask questions of the Society to resolve matters like this. I know there are some NGS officials on this forum so what do they think about this situation? The comment that the owner of Model Master is too busy to answer emails is ridiculous to me.
For me the NGS was a source of knowledge and the items stocked by the shop. I understand because of what happened things had to change but it seems that the proverbial baby has been thrown out with the bath water. Also the proposal that kits are to be sold without transfers really makes no sense at all and I am beginning to wonder if it will be worthwhile rejoining next time around.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: thebrighton on January 17, 2018, 03:26:30 pm
Also the proposal that kits are to be sold without transfers really makes no sense at all and I am beginning to wonder if it will be worthwhile rejoining next time around.
The membership benefits are certainly dwindling although someone is bound to say 'what about the journal' but membership is basically turning in to a magazine subscription and as for the 50th Anniversary Show.............
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: middlefour on January 17, 2018, 03:45:17 pm
A 50th anniversary show you say...what was that then........ ;) ;)
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Shiney Sheff on January 17, 2018, 03:49:13 pm
A 50th anniversary show you say...what was that then........ ;) ;)

 :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: red_death on January 17, 2018, 03:55:25 pm
Thanks for posting that. It is abundantly clear to me that the NGS haven't got a clue what is going on or how to sort it out. Was that on the so called 'official' NGS forum? One thing is also clear to me is that there needs to be a proper place on the NGS website to ask questions of the Society to resolve matters like this.

I think the NGS knows exactly what is going on but as explained by Alan what is the alternative solution? I've yet to see/hear it.

The discussion was taken from the NGS groups.io board - which was indeed created to discuss NGS matters without airing everything on the NGF or the N Gauge group, why does another forum need to be created?

The membership benefits are certainly dwindling although someone is bound to say 'what about the journal' but membership is basically turning in to a magazine subscription and as for the 50th Anniversary Show.............

There was no mystery about the fate of the 50th show - it was explained on here and in the Journal/NGS website what the problem was.

Regardless of the problems the NGS has, it is still a bargain at £18/year.  6 copies of the Journal, exclusive kits and RTR (which continue to be developed). Could things be better and more efficient - of course they could.

Cheers, Mike (NGS Committee member)
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: middlefour on January 17, 2018, 04:09:05 pm
As I understand it the forum you mention is not an official NGS forum linked to the web site which the NGS should have had a long time ago in my opinion.

So can you say when will the Modelmasters situation be sorted? Are you happy that emails go unanswered? Are you in agreement that kits are now to be sold without transfers. Some answers would be good please.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 17, 2018, 04:48:29 pm
As I understand it the forum you mention is not an official NGS forum linked to the web site which the NGS should have had a long time ago in my opinion.


I think that the problem has been and continues to be that there are plenty of people who say they would like such a forum but not enough of them who would be prepared to volunteer to provide the 24/7 administration and moderation that would be needed. The existing groups.io set up is as good as there is likely to be without a largish team of new member volunteer admins/mods, but choosing not to use what is there hardly strengthens the case for a full NGS forum, IMHO.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on January 17, 2018, 05:37:18 pm
It's reasurring that I am not the only one who is miffed with the NGS decal situation.

I know of two other members in W.Cornwall who are considering whether they will renew their memberships when the time comes. There have been a few hard to understand decisions taken over the last couple of years.
I'm sure that many will understand and agree that the shop was just too much for volunteers to handle, and accept the closure of it as it was. The decals though are a different situation IMO...an that of others. As for supplying kits when they become widely available, without decals does seem yet another step backwards.

Having been on a committee for many years I accept that decisions have to be made, and usually on a vote
However, sometimes these decisions result in a situation that was not envisaged. Then it's time to consider re-visiting if the decision was the right one...
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: red_death on January 17, 2018, 05:39:14 pm
As I understand it the forum you mention is not an official NGS forum linked to the web site which the NGS should have had a long time ago in my opinion.

So can you say when will the Modelmasters situation be sorted? Are you happy that emails go unanswered? Are you in agreement that kits are now to be sold without transfers. Some answers would be good please.

The groups.io board is the closest you are going to get to a full NGS forum for the foreseeable future.  Linking together the membership database amd the NGS website (to allow easy administration of an NGS forum should one ever be created) is no small task with a lot of implications.

I can't say when/how the Modelmasters situation will be sorted.  Of course I'm not happy with the situation but (again) what are the alternatives? Looking after the decals and nameplates is a massive task.

I don't know the full details of the decision behind selling kits without transfers so I'm not prepared to second guess why it was taken (I'd hazard a guess that it was to prevent kit price rises and/or because transfer stock was not available and it is better to get the kit out without transfers than not at all).  IIRC the transfers for the majority of the kits are not from Modelmaster.

None of that is new information - it may well not be the answers you wish for though...

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: red_death on January 17, 2018, 05:43:41 pm
I'm sure that many will understand and agree that the shop was just too much for volunteers to handle, and accept the closure of it as it was. The decals though are a different situation IMO...

The situation of the Shop and decals/nameplates is identical - both had got completely too much for volunteers to easily handle. 

As I've said previously, complaining on here is likely to achieve little.  Writing on the NGS groups.io board or even better by email to the Chairman and/or the Committee is far more likely to lead to a response - don't just complain, ask questions that can be reasonably answered or offer potential solutions.  By all means get other members to "sign" the letter in support and ask whoever you write to when you can reasonably expect a response.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PaulCheffus on January 17, 2018, 07:01:49 pm
I don't know the full details of the decision behind selling kits without transfers so I'm not prepared to second guess why it was taken (I'd hazard a guess that it was to prevent kit price rises and/or because transfer stock was not available and it is better to get the kit out without transfers than not at all).  IIRC the transfers for the majority of the kits are not from Modelmaster.

Hi

Are the transfers going to be sold separately? If not how do people finish their models?

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: thebrighton on January 17, 2018, 08:21:07 pm
There was no mystery about the fate of the 50th show - it was explained on here and in the Journal/NGS website what the problem was.
Regardless of the problems the NGS has, it is still a bargain at £18/year.  6 copies of the Journal, exclusive kits and RTR (which continue to be developed). Could things be better and more efficient - of course they could.

I know there is no mystery about the fate of the 50th show, just that the NGS had 50 years notice of the anniversary!
As for being a bargain you get a Journal at £3 a go irrespective of if there is much of interest in it, it can vary a lot. RTR - only occasionally of interest and would have probably ended up in production anyway and I, personally don't agree with the NGS offering RTR stuff. Kits - I love building kits but they are all to modern for me recently and what's the point if you can't get the transfers to finish it.
I've been a member for many years and despite membership steadily increasing what it offers is decreasing at the same rate. Sorry if you don't agree but we are all entitled to an opinion.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on January 18, 2018, 09:56:32 am
I magine the NGS decals and nameplates were a huge task...when coupled to the shop contents.

Having sold off the shop contents then surely the decals and plates would have become more manageable?

Was a NGS person sought who would have been prepared to take them on?

OR, was it in reality a case of the baby being thrown out with the bathwater (as has already been mentioned)

It's evident by the posts on here that some, if not many members are disgruntled by the, shall we say, outsourcing of the decals back to Modelmaster.

It also appears to me from their website that they have increased in cost. If they have increased in cost, which I feel they have, is this increase applied to NGS stock handed over to them?

Somebody also mentioned the Modelmaster postage cost being high.

We are aware what occured with the long time shop managers (well, to a degree we are) but it has to be said when you ordered decals they were despatched fairly quickly at a very fair postage cost.

I'm going to pull back from further posts on this subject (for a while). I have spoken to a NGS committee "high ranker" about this. As members all we can do is hope that something is sorted out, and the decals again become an easy to access item, at a fair cost / p&p.

As for emails, still not heard back from them, must be several weeks ago I emailed them.

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Yet_Another on January 18, 2018, 12:41:58 pm
Is it any wonder that voluntary groups like the NGS find it extremely difficult to recruit new volunteers to committee positions, when all that is in prospect is the sort of comment seen in this thread?
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on January 18, 2018, 12:49:42 pm
Quite a few posts (mine included) are complaints about Modelmaster, I don't think that they should have taken the plates from the N Gauge Society if they weren't capable of managing them.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on January 21, 2018, 08:17:00 am
As I registered my NGS details with Modelmaster they send me emails.

Just had one to say they are soon to discontinue taking Paypal payments.

Thought I'd give you a heads up on this.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Shiney Sheff on January 21, 2018, 10:33:19 am


Just had one to say they are soon to discontinue taking Paypal payments.

Thought I'd give you a heads up on this.

Yet another avenue for payment closed then, it just seems get more of a mess with every passing week.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on January 21, 2018, 10:43:30 am
I unsbscrbed from Modelmaster's emails, I got really irritated by them, I would just like my nameplates or an answer to MY emails.

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: NeMo on January 21, 2018, 11:45:41 am
I unsbscrbed from Modelmaster's emails, I got really irritated by them, I would just like my nameplates or an answer to MY emails.

Oh boy, one of my pet peeves this! Company happily sends you emails as often as they want, but never replies to any emails you send them!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PaulCheffus on January 21, 2018, 11:46:52 am
I unsbscrbed from Modelmaster's emails, I got really irritated by them, I would just like my nameplates or an answer to MY emails.

Oh boy, one of my pet peeves this! Company happily sends you emails as often as they want, but never replies to any emails you send them!

Cheers, NeMo

Hi

Set up an email rule on your email account to return them automatically.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: NeMo on January 21, 2018, 11:59:09 am
Set up an email rule on your email account to return them automatically.

To be fair, Mail.app usually sends them into the Junk folder. It's not marketing emails I care about -- in fact the ones from Agent Provocateur are quite welcome! -- it's the absence of replies from those companies when I have a question or concern.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Ditape on January 21, 2018, 12:42:10 pm
I brought all the complaints about Modelmasters to the attention of NGS committee members on the NGS stand at the Calne show yesterday and it is apparently to be discussed at the next committee meeting which is in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on January 21, 2018, 12:51:33 pm
That's a very positive move Ditape...thank you. 

In a personal message to a high ranking member of the NGS committee, I said that whilst I agree and understand the reorganisation/culling of shop contents, I felt the "outsourcing" of the NGS decals back to Modelmaster was a step too far. It will be interesting to hear the outcome of their discussions/appraisal of the current situation that has unfolded.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on January 21, 2018, 12:56:42 pm
Just had one to say they are soon to discontinue taking Paypal payments.

That will kill their online business.

Mind you, perhaps that's what they want?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: middlefour on January 21, 2018, 01:37:31 pm
I brought all the complaints about Modelmasters to the attention of NGS committee members on the NGS stand at the Calne show yesterday and it is apparently to be discussed at the next committee meeting which is in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on January 21, 2018, 04:11:27 pm
I recently purchased 6 kits from the NGS online and was impressed with the communication and prompt delivery of such. However remembering the price list that we used to get with the journal I was disappointed with the massively shrunk down stock list and I think the only kits they had in stock were the ones I wanted.

It's probably close to 4 years ago we ordered nameplates for BoB and MN and it was a hellishly long time to wait and since the NGS has dropped them I too have now switched to Fox, who have an easy to understand website and good communication and the quality is exceptional too.

Every price in every industry has risen and postage always does upset and annoy everyone BUT it is the unfortunate price we have to pay. It's still cheaper then us driving the return trip to collect them.

 As a consumer we all want more for our money but as a service provider (NGS in this case) their overheads climb  and money gets stretched, they loose members over decisions that are made which in turn costs to the remainers rise.

I'm sure the NGS are inundated with the same questions but they like us are a link in the chain. No one wants to wait. No one wants to pay more and No company wants to admit they've ignored or let anyone down. But we're all human. Enjoying our hobby and enjoying jumping on our soapbox when things drive us mad. Surely we will all get there in the end, won't we?

I wish Dapol hadn't announced Rebuilt MN BoB and WC a thousand moons ago. I'm still waiting for those on pre order from Hattons
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on January 22, 2018, 12:33:09 pm
I'm sure the NGS are inundated with the same questions but they like us are a link in the chain. No one wants to wait. No one wants to pay more and No company wants to admit they've ignored or let anyone down. But we're all human. Enjoying our hobby and enjoying jumping on our soapbox when things drive us mad. Surely we will all get there in the end, won't we?

To be fair - the main issue here is not cost, but complete lack of service, making the process more awkward (Paypal!!) or complete lack of communication on orders placed in good faith. I'm happy to wait if something is going to be gotten in reasonable time, and there are reasonable updates if there are problems or delays.

Is waiting a year or more for a few pound nameplate really reasonable? IMHO, no, but each to their own. Personally I now think Modelmaster should not be advertising anything they don't have in stock. The contrast is emphasised by Fox as others have said, whose service is the polar opposite - quick, efficient and they'll let you know if there's a problem, and will sort out any mistake they make very rapidly.

It isn't the NGS to blame at all - but they do now need to step in and mitigate an increasingly untenable situation if possible.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Lindi on January 26, 2018, 10:58:54 pm
Modelmaster have put an update on there website about NGS decals and about email usage and a change in email address

2mm Scale N Gauge Society Nameplates & Transfers
26th January 2018
The N Gauge Society section on our website is closed until we examine the stock supplied and make sure that what is listed is actually in stock, and that the contents of certain decal packs are consistent with their description.
Hopefully, it will reopen again about mid-February, and we'll be able to clear outstanding orders.

Modelmaster UK - Email overuse and new email address.
We get complaints that we don't reply to emails sent to sales@modelmaster.uk.
We've had 3,700 emails in three months, which, given an average of 30 minutes to read and reply to each one, would take one of us (there are anly two of us here) two months to reply to, without time to sleep, eat, or complete any orders!
PLEASE USE THE PHONE, 01292 289770, or if you MUST email, don't send to sales@modelmaster.uk, but to jim@modelmaster.uk. and leave a telephone number as we not be able to email you back for a few days.
PLEASE DON'T email about 'missing' orders until TEN WORKING DAYS after ordering, but wherever possible please phone.

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: emjaybee on January 26, 2018, 11:05:03 pm
Blimey!

30 minutes to read and reply to an email!

...and I thought I had problems.

 :smackedface:
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on January 26, 2018, 11:11:47 pm
I don't get any of this - if everyone who emails, phones instead, then he'll be in exactly the same position. Smacks of being a bit out of touch with reality....

3700 emails in 3 months is around 41 a day - I get more than that at work, never mind personal.....

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Lindi on January 26, 2018, 11:18:06 pm
I don't get any of this - if everyone who emails, phones instead, then he'll be in exactly the same position. Smacks of being a bit out of touch with reality....

3700 emails in 3 months is around 41 a day - I get more than that at work, never mind personal.....

Cheers,
Alan

I didn't understand that either, as most companies want you to email them rather than phone as it is less time consuming.

I would guess that quite a lot of the emails are duplicate/triplicate... as they didn't bother replying to the original email that customers sent.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PLD on January 26, 2018, 11:38:21 pm
I do get it... that statement confirms hearsay reports from elsewhere that the stock handed back from the NGS Shop was a complete and utter shambles and is taking a long long time to sort out.

Allegedly, in their infinite wisdom the NGS renumbered and resorted the stock but to make matters worse in some cases reused the same numbers for different items so that by their numbering, the same code applies to a different item to what it did in Modelmasters' original numbering scheme.

I would guess that quite a lot of the emails are duplicate/triplicate... as they didn't bother replying to the original email that customers sent.
It is a safe bet there are multiples in that total - we have contributors in this thread admitting to as much... One answered phone call can be easier than dealing with someone who e-mails maybe more than once per day.

For me, the only critical failing is to under-estimate the scale of disorganisation/maladministration of the NGS Shop and work required to recombine the inherited stock. We need to give what is a very small operation who have previously delivered a decent timely service some slack to get the stock organised and work through the backlog...
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on January 27, 2018, 12:11:21 am
Allegedly, in their infinite wisdom the NGS renumbered and resorted the stock but to make matters worse in some cases reused the same numbers for different items so that by their numbering, the same code applies to a different item to what it did in Modelmasters' original numbering scheme.

This is fair enough.

But Modelmaster have been advertising and offering for sale nameplates at very least (not sure about the decals as I've never used them), for 6-9 months or more. They've only pulled everything now - presumably because of this thread and the complaints to NGS. If the stock is in that shambles that takes a few months to sort out, then fair enough, but it should therefore never have been advertised until in a state that orders could be fulfilled.

We need to give what is a very small operation who have previously delivered a decent timely service some slack to get the stock organised and work through the backlog...

Perfectly happy to - but it's too late really as the ship has sailed now - many people are sitting having made orders that have not been fulfilled, and many appear to have lost trust.

Moreover, the email, phone, and Paypal situation strikes of being out of touch with the digital age we now live in - I can understand that Paypal costs. But so do credit cards, which is presumably what most folk will then use....

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on January 27, 2018, 09:32:34 am
Going by recent posts if they are correct the NGS decals were in a right shambles.
I assume they were in such a muddle that they couldn't have been sold off to members cheaply in a lucky dip scenario, clearing the decks for a restocking / start again process? (just a passing thought, but unaware of the possible logistics involved)

Did we have a situation where the committee decided either we cannot sort this jigsaw puzzle, we haven't got volunteers to attempt sorting it, or maybe a combination of both?  So the NGS decals, which I have viewed as a highpoint of membership, were passed onto/back to Modelmaster.

In all fairness to Modelmaster it is beginning to sound as though they were landed with more than they had bargained for /  have bitten off more they can chew. That said, how long does it take to conclude that it's in a mess, and needs sorting before sales can commence without problems?

Whatever happened it's of course water under the bridge.

I fully appreciate that after the departure of the longtime Jaywick "shopkeepers" a whole can of worms opened up. The shop contents have been cleared, which for most of us isn't too problematic. The decals however are not the sort of thing you can buy from a box shifter, or your local MRS. This is where the NGS had a very strong advantage, and membership puller...IMO of course. We must surely all be aware of Fox,CCT, Precision etc, but NGS membership enabled the purchase of Modelmaster decals at a good price. This really showed it's worth when ordering several packs.

It's been posted above that Modelmaster have withdrawn the NGS decals/nameplates from sale. Many members appear to have become rancled how things have played out, whilst others have had few problems. Hopefully the issues can be sorted in a reasonable time scale, and members will again be able to place orders for decals and have them within days, at a realistic postage cost. If this fails to materialise my guess is NGS renewals may suffer.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Lindi on February 10, 2018, 08:28:38 pm
A few N gauge plates have started to reappear on the Modelmaster site. Currently only Westerns and Warships.

From the latest email newsletter Jim is going to retire sometime later in the year.

"After 52 years in the Model Railway Business, I'm going to retire sometime this year,  and spend time travelling and relaxing with my wife Elspeth, who works long, hard, unpaid hours for Modelmaster. There would BE no business without her!"
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: msr on February 11, 2018, 08:40:34 am
More worryingly, that same press release goes on to state "I'm not printing any more decals or transfers, so when items sell out, they're gone forever, but I'll still complete very limited production of 7mm Scale Waterslide Decals already in the pipeline."  I saw this here:
https://groups.io/g/ngs/topic/modelmaster_plates_and/7707930?p=Created,,,20,1,20,0&jump=1

Since the 2mm/NGS part of the site was taken down last month, this does not bode well for anyone trying to establish what to order and from whom.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 11, 2018, 09:23:44 am
Were, as we will now be talking in past sense modelmasters decals and nameplates ones that aren't produced by Fox?

Simply because if they aren't then there's no point continuing with this post as their service, communication and quality is fantastic and would be very hard to beat.

However IF they are different and in a state that can be sorted and reproduced without much hassle it seems to me as a viable business.
We know the NGS aren't interested in it so how about Ben and Mike at revolutioN take them on to run alongside their business or Tank is there any possibility of a consortium purchase that allows the N gauge forum to be the proud producer and supplier of these plates and decals??

Just seems to be a hell of alot of modellers desperate to purchase these and only 1 company willing to run away from it all for reasons of being 'left in a mess'

Shoot me down in flames or praise which ever is worthy

Craig
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on February 11, 2018, 10:58:13 am
Along with some others I have had a few posts on here about Modelmaster.

I do not feel it was explained well enough why the society decals, which in my mind kind of belonged to the membership, made their way back to Modelmaster.

Now, for whatever reason/s the owners and printers of the decals have decided to retire...nothing wrong with that of course it's everyone's right to do so as and when they wish, and if able to do so.

I wonder if the NGS decals they took over were just a bit too much to handle on top of their core business, especially if they were rather mixed up as the society kit parts were?

It would seem it's gone from a far from idea situation to the worse case scenario.

A few years back the society purchased the Parkwood range of kits, which IMO was a good move. I will  be interesting to see if a similar purchase can be made of the Modelmaster N gauge decals and plates.

I didn't envisage the owners of Modelmaster would retire so soon after taking the NGS decals back to distribute, and I'm sure nobody on our committee thought so either.

As I have said many times I consider the NGS kits and decals to be pivotal to the membership numbers.

I have had a chap custom produce some haulage decals for me and they are top notch. Sadly as part of an agreement with the person who sold him the equipment he is not allowed to produce railway decals, as they continue to do so, albeit in 4mm.

Exmouthcraig, no shooting down in flames is called for, virtually all of us have a need for decals. Society decals were always a good buy that I'm sure was an attraction of membership.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Buzzard on February 11, 2018, 11:14:32 am
Since the 2mm/NGS part of the site was taken down last month, this does not bode well for anyone trying to establish what to order and from whom.

I don't know about anyone else but if company A cannot, for whatever reason, supply what I'm after I look at company B, then C etc.  I'm sorry to say that Modelmaster have been off my radar for some time.

If no-one produces the TOPS panels I'm after then I cut 'n' shunt with the nearest available panel.  For example I need panels for a VEV so I'll take ones coded VEA lose the A and add the V.  No point waiting for a supplier to produce VEV panels when I've got the wherewithal in my box of transfer sheets.

As long as the NGS can produce transfers for its kits I'll be happy.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Ben A on February 11, 2018, 11:36:28 am
We know the NGS aren't interested in it so how about Ben and Mike at revolutioN take them on to run alongside their business or Tank is there any possibility of a consortium purchase that allows the N gauge forum to be the proud producer and supplier of these plates and decals??

Hi all,

For avoidance of any doubt Revolution's focus is on enabling modellers to come together to crowdfund RTR models that otherwise would be unlikely to see production, at least in the foreseeable future, by the mainstream manufacturers.

We have no capacity for, or interest in, bits and kits beyond *possibly*  supplying components that are a by-product of our RTR models such as pantographs.

I have designed decal artwork for the NGS kits I've been involved with and it is very time-consuming, especially if you are not familiar with the prototype.  If anyone else is considering taking this on good luck to them!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 11, 2018, 11:49:15 am
Is the time constraints the reason the NGS handed all works back to Modelmasters Ben?

This is an industry other then being an end user of I know nothing about, all we read on here is upset / annoyance / frustration  that the NGS handed these over even though they were huge benefits of membership.

We all want different things for our hobby and our interpretation of the real thing but are costs and time the reasons these have been and are being dumped and it's time to accept we will no longer get what we once had access too??

Craig
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Ben A on February 11, 2018, 12:01:23 pm

Hi Craig,

I think the view was that the sorting and dispatch of decals was something that was best done by a specialist, and so the decals were sent back to Modelmaster on the understanding that they would do this.

I could be wrong, but I have a recollection that the only reason the NGS originally took on the decals was that Modelmaster were threatening to pull out of N altogether.

I don't really know the details of the arrangements for their repatriation.

I was just clarifying the position re Mike and I potentially offering decals.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on February 11, 2018, 01:02:17 pm
Ben Ando said...I don't really know the details of the arrangements for their repatriation.

Really Ben, as Vice President of the NGS.
Has somebody kept you in the dark regarding information of such magnitude?

I am not alone in feeling that there's increasingly a "if you need to know" air about the society, seemingly since the bombshell hit after a stocktaking of the former society shop .

I have been patient during the last couple/few years that the NGS has faced turmoil, as I'm sure many others have. If the exclusive decals disappear along with Modelmaster, it will be another nail in the coffin in my book.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: xm607 on February 11, 2018, 01:53:00 pm
Heads up!
The owner of Modelmaster is to retire this year to go time travelling with his wife according to the email that I received today, there is a sale on and when the sheets are exhausted there will be no more produced.
N Gauge sheets are not listed at present on the website so what happens then, will we be forced to go down the white pencil or pen route as in days of yore?
Steve.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Buzzard on February 11, 2018, 02:38:18 pm
will we be forced to go down the white pencil or pen route as in days of yore?

Nowt wrong with old technology in order to complete the kit that you bought years ago because you were promised transfers "soon".
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: xm607 on February 11, 2018, 03:24:19 pm
Nope, that's just what I used back in the 1970's and 80's.
Steve
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Ben A on February 11, 2018, 05:04:39 pm
Ben Ando said...I don't really know the details of the arrangements for their repatriation.

Really Ben, as Vice President of the NGS.
Has somebody kept you in the dark regarding information of such magnitude?

Hello trillikman,

I don't think anyone has kept me in the dark - I just haven't made any effort to find out.

Modelmaster decals do not cover my period of interest, so information that is of such magnitude to you is of little or no interest to me!

The aim of my post is to clarify that Revolution are unlikely to be in any position to offer decals.

Good luck finding out the information you are after.

Cheers

Ben A.


Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Shiney Sheff on February 11, 2018, 05:41:18 pm
Word on the grapevine is, there was a full committee meeting last week where this very topic was discussed.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 11, 2018, 05:49:16 pm


Hello trillikman,

I don't think anyone has kept me in the dark - I just haven't made any effort to find out.

Modelmaster decals do not cover my period of interest, so information that is of such magnitude to you is of little or no interest to me!

The aim of my post is to clarify that Revolution are unlikely to be in any position to offer decals.

Good luck finding out the information you are after.

Cheers

Ben A.
[/quote]

Ben can we just confirm you are replying to this thread as revolutioN as opposed to VC of the NGS???

Just to make things clear

Thanks Craig
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PLD on February 11, 2018, 09:40:00 pm
... the society decals, which in my mind kind of belonged to the membership...
As far as I understand, the decals never belonged to the society. Ownership of the reproduction rights always rested with Modelmaster, all the NGS had was an exclusive distribution agreement for the range in 1:148 scale. This was done with good intent at a time when sales of the 1:148 range were in decline and Modelmaster had made it known that there was likely to be some rationalisation of the range.
Whether this was time-limited or indefinite appears to be open to debate as different people give different stories, but whatever the case any party who did not have an exit clause in the arrangement would be commercially naive...
 
I do not feel it was explained well enough why the ... decals, ... ... ... made their way back to Modelmaster.
It has been very clearly explained. Amongst a multitude of issues uncovered concerning the society shop including poor stock management and record keeping; it was decided by the Society (presumably the committee) that re-sorting and cataloguing the stock of decals was beyond the capacity of the Society volunteers so they ended the exclusive distribution agreement and returned the stocks in hand back to the rights owner - Modelmaster.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals - Mr Modelmaster retiring & selling up!
Post by: Railwaygun on February 11, 2018, 10:02:46 pm
news from NGS@groups.io

After 52 years in the Model Railway Business, I'm going to retire sometime this year,  and spend time travelling and relaxing with my wife Elspeth, who works long, hard, unpaid hours for Modelmaster. There would BE no business without her!

I'm not printing any more decals or transfers, so when items sell out, they're gone forever, but I'll still complete very limited production of 7mm Scale Waterslide Decals already in the pipeline.
So, let's get the stock moving, with  25% off
4mm Nameplates & Decals
for a day or two!

jim@modelmaster.uk
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Yet_Another on February 11, 2018, 10:30:44 pm
See also posts 88 &97.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Ben A on February 12, 2018, 01:22:54 am
Ben can we just confirm you are replying to this thread as revolutioN as opposed to VC of the NGS???

Just to make things clear

Thanks Craig

Hi Craig,

I only really posted to clarify that Revolution would not be looking at decals, so yes, with a Revolution hat on.

I added what I thought I could recall about the background to the Modelmaster deal, but PLD has come to the rescue with a much more detailed and accurate explanation.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 12, 2018, 09:40:59 am
Morning Ben, it was just to clarify that was Revolution point of view over the end of NGS supply as opposed to VC of the NGS.

I don't enjoy reading about the threats of pulling out of membership over the stock and supply of 1 range of items so wanted to make it clear the VC of the NGS doesn't have the "it's not my interest therefore I don't care" attitude, where as co owner of revolutioN can, unfortunately Revolution don't supply anything that suits my needs and I don't have a problem with the owner of such a company having that attitude towards the decals and nameplates.

I just wanted to clarify your posts on here.

Many thanks

Craig
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on February 12, 2018, 09:42:16 am
Does this not now leave the NGS high and dry, with wagon kits that rely on Modelmaster decals?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 12, 2018, 09:58:08 am
Does this not now leave the NGS high and dry, with wagon kits that rely on Modelmaster decals?

Cheers,
Alan

Maybe Alan, however I ordered kits from the NGS and ordered my decals from Fox at 2pm on the weds by 5pm Thursday they were on my doormat.

Straight forward website ordering, PayPal payment, immediate email reply and fantastic service. They are working on shrinking a number of OO gauge plates to N. I'll deal with them until this saga is finalised

Thanks  Craig
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on February 12, 2018, 10:00:07 am
Maybe Alan, however I ordered kits from the NGS and ordered my decals from Fox at 2pm on the weds by 5pm Thursday they were on my doormat.

Sure - I guess my point is that some specific ones aren't available from Fox?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: ScottishModeller on February 12, 2018, 10:14:33 pm
Hi all,

It seems Jim has had second thoughts about retiring...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
There were two reasons I announced last week I was going to retire later this year.

One was that I felt I wasn't giving a good enough service (criticism about not answering emails, complaints about not getting orders by return, etc.,) and the other was that I wanted time to write books & build my very own model railway.

But, it's not really what I want to do. I've spoken to a lot of customers and trade people over the weekend, and it seems I'm being hasty about my decision.  Out of all the orders sent last year we had less than a handful of complaints, and everbody ended up happy at the end of the day.  We do respond to complaints, and take them seriously when they arise .

As for the trolls who are having a rant about me on a certain website for not answering emails, I changed my email address last month to allow customers to access me more easily, (jim@modelmaster.uk) so they've no case to answer.  If I don't answer quickly now, it's because I'm researching their question before replying.

Nobody could answer 7,995 emails received over eight months, which was the total traffic going through sales@modelmaster.uk, so please, either be patient, or use the phone.  If I employ someone just to answer emails, the prices would have to go up by 40%.

Orders by return would be great! - but how would I be able to hand finish and inspect every nameplate, and check the registration on every sik screen printed decal sheet before it goes out?  We're selling quality and accuracy, not laser printed cheap transfers or crude etchings.   

I've been persuaded by discussions with customers and others NOT to retire at present, and I think that Elspeth is relieved about that, as I'd just be under her feet too often!  (I will take holidays in future though.)
I might consider retiral again in a few years, though!
The discount offer finishes at midnight

jim@modelmaster.uk
01292 289770

MODELMASTER UK are Specialists in Model Railway & Road Transport
Decals (Waterslide Transfers), and Etched Metal Nameplates for Model
Locomotives in all scales up to 7" Gauge, but particularly 2, 3, 4 & 7mm
Scales. We also publish books and design & manufacture resin bodied
Tramcar Kits.
___________________________________________________________
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on February 13, 2018, 03:38:07 am
As my order was placed in August 2017 and I have sent them four emails that have gone unanswered since then and I have posted on this forum I suppose I fall into the troll category.

I do think that if they supply an email address they should be prepared to answer emails. I would have thought answering phone calls would be more time consuming than emails but that's just me. I have asked a friend who lives in the UK to phone them and a I will send an email the new address to find out what has happened to my order.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: emjaybee on February 13, 2018, 08:38:26 am
As my order was placed in August 2017 and I have sent them four emails that have gone unanswered since then and I have posted on this forum I suppose I fall into the troll category.

I do think that if they supply an email address they should be prepared to answer emails. I would have thought answering phone calls would be more time consuming than emails but that's just me. I have asked a friend who lives in the UK to phone them and a I will send an email the new address to find out what has happened to my order.


I don't consider your behaviour to be that of a "Troll". If people are running a business there is a certain expectation that matters/orders be dealt with in a timely manner. If there are delays then there is also a expectation that customers should be kept informed. I think your emails have been proportionate to the issue of waiting four months for an order.

I think it is unfair of Modelmaster to use language like "Troll" when the truth is that customers have a right to know what's going on with their money. If they've got email issues then that's their issue and they need to deal with it. Changing the email address from "Sales" to "Jim" isn't going to make a blind bit of difference as they both go through his website "modelmaster.co.uk".

I've had no dealings with Modelmaster, but I dislike the misuse of language such as that, when what @silly moo (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=279) is trying to do is find out information that they are entitled to.

Bad form.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Ditape on February 13, 2018, 12:09:06 pm
I am not in business , I receive and process somewhere in the order of 15,500 emails in a 8 month period so I do not see how a business can complain about 8000 in that time span, and a few months back whilst still working I would also have to processes another 30/40 emails a day at work with a similar number of phone calls and snail mail . his mail load works out at 35/day at about being generous 5 mins each to handle  less 3 hours/day so probably actually less 2 hours.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Bingley Hall on February 13, 2018, 01:27:53 pm
It seems there's plenty on here think they could do a better job than you Jim..............if I was you I'd take that holiday and not bother looking back.

Let 'em get on with it.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on February 13, 2018, 01:59:10 pm
I think the main problem has been communication, if they were unable to cope with emails and sorting out orders, a simple notice on the website stating that they were very busy and some orders were taking longer to process would have been sufficient for most modellers. Transfers and nameplates are not a matter of life and death, most people would be prepared to wait but customers do get upset when they are totally ignored.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 13, 2018, 04:41:24 pm
I think the main problem is someone's attitude to the job. He obviously agreed to take back control after the NGS dropped them from their shop.

Do the 4mm and 7mm decals and nameplates go uninformed for 6 months? ? Most probably not.

Seems strange how after weeks of questions and 'rumours' of it being brought up by the NGS committee that an email gets sent announcing retirement. Presumably on the assumption we'd give up chasing orders and not bother ordering any more.

Let's be honest if we ordered our weekly food shop online and the supermarket took our money and failed to acknowledge anything about our order would we wait 6 months and just accept their busy? No. So why just because the orders are fews of pounds is this an acceptable way to do business?
If he's allowed to refer to unhappy customers as "Trolls" surely this CLOWN deserves to loose all his business.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PaulCheffus on February 13, 2018, 05:11:30 pm
Hi

Interestingly the 2mm decals have vanished from the website so you can't actually order them anyway.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: silly moo on February 13, 2018, 05:17:03 pm
Most of the people on RMWeb are very happy with their service and have received their orders within in few days , it does seem as though 2mm modellers have been ignored.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Calnefoxile on February 13, 2018, 05:27:43 pm


It's all the manufacturers fault, putting their prices up on the RTR stuff, therefore people are having to do this thing called Modelling  ??? ??? Therefore the Cottage Industries are having to do more work, inconsiderate Manufacturers  ;D ;D

Cheers

Neal.

P.S. Or it could be Brexit's fault  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PLD on February 13, 2018, 06:11:51 pm
I don't think for one moment that the "troll" comment applies to anyone on this forum who have in the main stuck to facts and reasoned comment, however there has been some absolute ill-informed vitriol elsewhere that does qualify. Elsewhere Modelmaster have been painted by some as the devil responsible for all the ills of the NGS, accused of grabbing "their" decals, being wholly responsible for the ruin of the Society Shop and a multitude of other sins against the sainted society.

Fact is Modelmaster is a 1-man business. Yes he did underestimate the shambolic state of the stock he was taking on from the NGS; Yes communication standards may have slipped (he admits below the standards he wants to maintain) BUT...

1. he has to choose how to use his time. answering 1 e-mail might take 20 minutes. In that time he could instead pack 4 or 5 orders, or sort-out 100 or so items of the returned ex NGS Shop stock. What he can't do is all three at once.
2. from what has been said, 2mm scale orders are taking longer to process than others due to additional checks because the ex NGS stock can't be trusted to be what it says on the packet. He could cut out those checks but at the risk you would be sent the right packet containing the wrong item. What would you prefer??

Undoubtedly the present situation is less than ideal, but the root cause seems to me to be the additional workload taken on as an indirect result of the maladministration of the Society Shop.
We are where we are, and the only real way out is patience and time...
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 13, 2018, 06:43:00 pm
PLD it seems you are Model master spokesperson at this moment in time and clearly very close friend or associate of the aforementioned company. So if the bad press he is receiving from his basic ignorance to all that is wrong with 2mm ONLY why not go give him a hand?

Patience is all he had had over the last 6 months and clearly expects more. 1 man bands are all over this country I can't dither around on any of my communication for 6 months id never make or receive any money. Unless he's had 14 million nameplates returned from the NGS shop I can't see how hard it is to catalogue and count everything. If im not mistaken HE produced them for the NGS so would have knowledge as to what he was getting back.

Absolute shambles of a situation and hiding behind a lame excuse of lack of time to sort it is a joke!!
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Carmont on February 13, 2018, 07:02:01 pm
PLD it seems you are Model master spokesperson at this moment in time and clearly very close friend or associate of the aforementioned company. So if the bad press he is receiving from his basic ignorance to all that is wrong with 2mm ONLY why not go give him a hand?

Patience is all he had had over the last 6 months and clearly expects more. 1 man bands are all over this country I can't dither around on any of my communication for 6 months id never make or receive any money. Unless he's had 14 million nameplates returned from the NGS shop I can't see how hard it is to catalogue and count everything. If im not mistaken HE produced them for the NGS so would have knowledge as to what he was getting back.

Absolute shambles of a situation and hiding behind a lame excuse of lack of time to sort it is a joke!!

Wow. This is out of order. Seriously.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 13, 2018, 07:08:46 pm
So is
1, taking people's money off them
2, taking 6 months over basically nothing
3, not replying to questions about where orders are
4, blaming everyone for sending an email
5, calling customers "Trolls" for emailing you
6, announcing retirement
7, a week later withdrawing retirement threat
8, withdrawing 2mm stock from website

Not out of order??

Clearly if that's the way to run a business I have made some serious mistakes.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: PLD on February 13, 2018, 07:43:50 pm
PLD it seems you are Model master spokesperson at this moment in time and clearly very close friend or associate of the aforementioned company.
No personal direct connection other than as a very satisfied past & likely future customer; but I do know someone with more regular contact in relation to another part of the business so have had some third hand reports of the situation...

HE produced them for the NGS so would have knowledge as to what he was getting back.
He did indeed, but as I understand it the NGS Shop in their infinite wisdom renumbered the stock in their own system so a packet labelled "AB1234" could contain whatever AB1234 originally was in the Modelmaster numbering or it could be whatever was AB1234 in the NGS numbering system which could be something completely different!

Absolute shambles of a situation...
... is a perfect description of the NGS Shop in the last few years...
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Ben A on February 13, 2018, 09:19:45 pm

Hello all,

Exmouthcraig's last comment has been removed as no one was prosecuted and therefore the description he used was libellous, and in my view unnecessary.

I understand the decals situation has some people vexed, but please let's retain a sense of perspective.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Newportnobby on February 13, 2018, 09:35:25 pm

I understand the decals situation has some people vexed, but please let's retain a sense of perspective.


I totally agree with Ben. I'm not involved at all in the Modelmaster/NGs situation but am quite shocked by some of the mud slinging I've read tonight in this thread. It strikes me PLD summed things up in his reply #121 perfectly well and though we allow folks to vent their spleen to a certain extent there are limits.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Dr Al on February 14, 2018, 12:38:03 am
As a customer with one outstanding item (still), I haven't been impressed with Modelmaster's approach in the last few days, but how to move forward, rather than bitch too much more?

To say something hopefully constructive (hopefully) for Modelmaster if they are reading - the ways I'd sort this out would be:

1. Stop selling anything that's not in stock. IMMEDIATELY! If you don't know it's definitely in stock then don't list it - get it pulled from the website NOW. For the N gauge stock it seems likely that means all N is pulled for now.
2. Sort out outstanding (over a month say?) orders with an absolute top priority - either fulfill them, or refund them - and if that means stopping accepting any new orders in the interim, then do that.
3. Stop sending out discount emails until 2. is definitely accomplished as they just wind up customers who have not received orders more.
4. Once 1-3 are sorted, and the slate is then clean, then start to sort out the NGS stock and N gauge stock in general.
5. Only when catalogued, organised and clear knowledge of what is definitely there and sellable should these products then be opened back up for sale.
6. Indication that an item will take longer than say, 28 days, to arrive should be made absolutely clear before online or phone orders can be placed, although ideally with the above measures implemented, that should happen far less.
7. Accept that the majority of contact in the modern world is made electronically by email - like it or not, it's just the way it is. Other one man bands (BR Lines seems a good example) seem to manage, so it's just getting used to a more efficient workflow to deal with them.

I think that's the only path to regain credibility given the damage that has clearly been done - throwing the toys out the pram with threats to pull the plug on the whole business (quite obviously precipitated by this whole NGS situation) has somewhat backfired and only made irritated but patient customers increasingly irate that they won't ever get what they are long overdue. Certainly that was my second thought on reading the email - that a tenner lost and a Castle needing a new source of plates...... (my first thought was *SIGH*!).

I don't think anyone minds if the sorting and re-listing of the NGS stock takes time, and that it's a one man band so doing this is a fair task - that's fine as long as it's not being listed for sale concurrently, which seems part of the reason this mess has spiralled. Moreover, if the backlog of missing and outstanding orders was priority cleared, it's likely the email traffic will reduce from folks asking for the umpteenth time where their N gauge Castle nameplates are - a win-win situation I'd have thought!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Buzzard on February 14, 2018, 08:27:57 am
4. Once 1-3 are sorted, and the slate is then clean, then start to sort out the NGS stock and N gauge stock in general.

I think it's assumed that the N gauge problem was caused by the NGS shop renumbering Modelmaster products so could the NGS organise a volunteer team to help sort the mess out?

I'd help but the south west of Scotland is a long way to go to help sort things for an evening here and there.

Obviously I don't know the scale of the problem but even just making an offer to Modelmaster might be appreciated, don't ask don't find out etc.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 14, 2018, 08:39:41 am
All the blame seems to be want to be laid at the NGS door for shrinking the shop which seems to be totally 1 sided.

Yes, issues arose we know that but presumably the NGS didn't just pick all the Modelmaster stock they had and dump it at Modelmaster door and say "yeah their in a bit of a mess but sort it" im sure the task was probably underestimated but hiding from the problem isn't solving it.

Technically as the NGS shop as we knew it doesn't exist anymore SO no blame can be left with them, whoever agreed to take the stock on and to sort it out to continue selling it for their own gain had to take responsibility and if the task is too great give up.

It would seem that orders placed are all but lost and clearly this company needs my money more then I need their nameplates so if I ever get them ill obviously be happy. Till then I've accepted that I've just given my £40 to a worthless charity case and will never see the improvements my token gesture has made to them.

Rant over. Last post on the situation, I won't allow myself to be kicked off the forum for flared tempered statements.

The new diplomatic Craig
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Caz on February 14, 2018, 08:47:01 am
Thank you Craig for the post and I hope this quietens this thread down a little and we all stop blaming people who can't defend themselves. 
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: koyli55002 on February 14, 2018, 09:15:14 am
From Modelmaster home page.....note the last sentence ?

UPDATE 8th February 2018
The range of brand new 'Warship' class nameplates have now arrived and are being listed, along with the 'Western' Class nameplates to the same high standards.  It will take a few days to list them, but in the meantime if you wish to purchase any which aren't listed in either Black or Red, you can order by 'phone at 01292 289770 during business hours from Monday 12th February.  Other plates will be listed very soon along with decals.  All back orders will be resolved before the end of the month.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: red_death on February 14, 2018, 10:23:44 am
Fact is Modelmaster is a 1-man business. Yes he did underestimate the shambolic state of the stock he was taking on from the NGS; Yes communication standards may have slipped (he admits below the standards he wants to maintain) BUT...

1. he has to choose how to use his time. answering 1 e-mail might take 20 minutes. In that time he could instead pack 4 or 5 orders, or sort-out 100 or so items of the returned ex NGS Shop stock. What he can't do is all three at once.
2. from what has been said, 2mm scale orders are taking longer to process than others due to additional checks because the ex NGS stock can't be trusted to be what it says on the packet. He could cut out those checks but at the risk you would be sent the right packet containing the wrong item. What would you prefer??

Undoubtedly the present situation is less than ideal, but the root cause seems to me to be the additional workload taken on as an indirect result of the maladministration of the Society Shop.

Paul

You appear to have an axe to grind with the NGS which is regretful, however some of the points that you are posting as gospel are not the exact truth.

I'm not sure where this statement has come from that the stock was in a shambolic state when returned to Jim - having seen the state of the stock just prior to it being given to Jim that is categorically not the case.  Huge amounts of effort had been put into getting things in some sort of order.

I don't know whether things had been given a different code, though having done re-coding exercises professionally it is not rocket science to have a translation list.

It would probably be helpful if the NGS Committee made a statement on their side of things - there were certain commitments made by Modelmaster that do not appear to have been maintained, but I suspect they are very reluctant to do so as they want the situation with Model Masters to be resolved (and not to break down).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: trkilliman on February 14, 2018, 11:36:07 am
I think a statement from the committee would be both welcome and helpful.

Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: koyli55002 on February 14, 2018, 12:02:56 pm
I would have thought something from the proprietor of the company would be even more welcome and helpful, other than the "trolls" comment ? Only as an innocent bystander of course ......
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: middlefour on February 14, 2018, 12:23:56 pm
I think a statement from the committee would be both welcome and helpful.

I think that would be most welcome to clarify their position on this and how things more on from here.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: RailGooner on February 14, 2018, 01:01:59 pm

Isn't the Yahoo group the correct forum for that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK there's no official link between this forum and the NGS. As such I always feel a bit uneasy when I read demands for the NGS to make official statements on here. I'm as keen as the next to see a resolution to this mess. But we aren't the Parliamentary Select Committee on Model Railways so I don't think we ought to demand and expect anything official from the NGS on here.

Let's try and spread a little bit of love today.

Moderator Comment Original quoted text removed at the request of the OP
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: middlefour on February 14, 2018, 01:59:54 pm
May I suggest that you read my one line comment again RailGooner, because there is no stated or implied 'demand' placed upon the NGS by me and I do not say that and statement made should be placed on this or any other forum. Indeed the correct place for it to be published, as and when any such statement may be made, would be in the Journal and the Society website. Please do not try to read into my words something that is demonstrably not there.
Title: Re: Modelmaster/NGS decals
Post by: Caz on February 14, 2018, 02:21:44 pm
 :locked:

Ok, enough is enough, we've asked for your cooperation in keeping this thread within bounds but as the warning has not been heeded it's been locked.  If the NGS or a representative wish to make a reply we'll happily allow it to be posted.