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General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: Newportnobby on May 16, 2018, 03:11:20 pm

Title: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 16, 2018, 03:11:20 pm
Having watched the very good programme last night about this train, horror of horrors I seem to have developed a yen for one, purely based on it being such an iconic train.
Now I've looked at the Review section but there is just too much stuff there and I don't want to wade through discussions of different liveries etc as all I want is the original blue/grey exactly as this bearing in mind I know nada about this sort of purchase....

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/33065/dapol-2d-019-005-n-gauge-class-43-hst-blue-grey-er-43193-119-4-car-set

I'm assuming Farish don't make one as the last one I could see was their reference number 8125.
Can you get extra coaches for the Dapol one and, if so, what should I look out for to make a 6 or 8 car train?
Am I right in that only one driving car is powered?
Are there any errors/horrors I should be aware of?
Is this want even likely to get off the ground i.e. is stuff available or 'in the future'?
Have I gone over to the dark side?
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: njee20 on May 16, 2018, 03:21:53 pm
Farish did do one, but it's a very old (Poole) model, and most would say inferior to the Dapol offering which has lights, DCC compatibility (realise not relevant for you) etc.

So yes, you want the set you've linked to. They were 8-9 coaches in use, but if doing a 6-ish car set I'd add a single TF and three TSs. That is one of either 2P-005-024 or 2P-005-025 and 2P-005-037/38, there is 2P-005-039, but that's a Western Region coach (number starts with a W), so you can either double up on one of 37/38 or have one coach ostensibly from the WCML with the others from the ECML. 2P-005-036 is another Eastern Region coach yet to be released.

All items are in stock at Hatton's (and others I'm sure)

If you want an 8-car rake you need another TF, and another TS, again, you  can double up on TSs or mix regions. The running numbers being so tiny I'd personally duplicate rather than have different region designations.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Intercity on May 16, 2018, 03:34:01 pm
They are great trains and for the most part the extra coaches are readily available, note that coaches with buffers were not used in HST takes, they have different cables/voltages, some people report the lights on them failing, if you buy new I wouldn’t worry too much and DCC supplies can probably fix anyway.

Also the W prefix was for western region sets and the E for eastern region, I don’t believe the West Coast ever had any allocated to them in the BG era.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 16, 2018, 03:53:11 pm
Thanks for the replies answering most of the questions
@njee20 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147)  Rails have the TF and TS in stock (non buffered using their magnified pics) so I reckon 1 x TF and 3 x TS + the 4 coach set would do me (not fussed about duplicating coach numbers as I can't see 'em anyway) but I'm staring some £250 in the face (makes the Pendolino look the bargain it was!)

Still leaves me with:_
Is just the one car powered?
Are the powered cars subject to being noisy - something I have bad experience of with Dapol locos?
(Added the last one)

Thanks again
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: njee20 on May 16, 2018, 03:53:47 pm
Yes, sorry, force of habit writing WCML, not GWML for Western.

Thanks for the replies answering most of the questions
@njee20 ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147[/url])  Rails have the TF and TS in stock (non buffered using their magnified pics) so I reckon 1 x TF and 3 x TS + the 4 coach set would do me (not fussed about duplicating coach numbers as I can't see 'em anyway) but I'm staring some £250 in the face (makes the Pendolino look the bargain it was!)

Still leaves me with:_
Is just the one car powered?
Are the powered cars subject to being noisy - something I have bad experience of with Dapol locos?
(Added the last one)

Thanks again


One powered yes, but bags of power, I've got a couple of full 2+8 rakes and they'll easily do a 2% gradient at any speed.

They're not particularly noisy though.

The lights can be prone to failing, and some early ones overheated, but not seen reports of that for a long time.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 16, 2018, 04:22:01 pm
All showing in stock at Rails and ordered, for better or worse (the last couple of times I said that disaster ensued :uneasy:)
My get out of jail card is they'll be told to cancel it all if they aren't in stock >:D
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 16, 2018, 04:52:45 pm
Welcome to the wonderful world of the HST @Newportnobby (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264)   :claphappy:

Huge fan here (obviously) but sadly only have an elderly Farish GW Merlin livery power car set (a livery not yet covered by Dapol) as I have no room for a full length one.

Is this to be a replacement for your Pendo?

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 16, 2018, 05:03:42 pm
Is this to be a replacement for your Pendo?


The jury is still out on that as one driving car of my Pendo is no good and I wait to know what I have to do with it. I just think the HST was an icon. Strange how I've avoided getting a Flying Scotsman steamer :hmmm:
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 16, 2018, 05:10:54 pm
Is this to be a replacement for your Pendo?


The jury is still out on that as one driving car of my Pendo is no good and I wait to know what I have to do with it. I just think the HST was an icon. Strange how I've avoided getting a Flying Scotsman steamer :hmmm:

Agree on the icon, you won’t be surprised to here  ;D

Assuming you like the HST, maybe you could pick up a good Poole Farish Scotsman, A4 (Mallard?) and Deltic and have yourself a ECML icon collection?

But that is ignoring your Great Western preferences, I forget do you have a Western Diesel?

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: msr on May 16, 2018, 07:01:46 pm
Bachmann-Farish did release the HST, in the attractive in Midland Mainline teal livery in 2002. I am not sure which other liveries were released at that time, possibly the GNER dark blue one, but there was just one power car by then. The earliest (Poole) Farish HST's had motors in both power cars.

If I recall, you are not a fan of DCC sound, but I am personally very impressed with some of the more recent HST sound projects fitted to Dapol sets, where there decoders are set slightly differently for the leading and trailing power cars. They even reproduce the squealing sound of the coach suspension.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: njee20 on May 16, 2018, 07:28:12 pm
Farish have done many of the liveries frankly: blue and grey, Executive, Swallow, GW Merlin, First GW barbie, GNER, Virgin, Midland Mainline teal and later blue. Sure there are others!
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Yet_Another on May 16, 2018, 08:10:55 pm
*cough* obviously too late , but I have three ER TSOs for sale in the N'porium at this very moment.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=classifieds;sa=view;id=3167 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=classifieds;sa=view;id=3167)
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 16, 2018, 08:30:12 pm

Assuming you like the HST, maybe you could pick up a good Poole Farish Scotsman, A4 (Mallard?) and Deltic and have yourself a ECML icon collection?

But that is ignoring your Great Western preferences, I forget do you have a Western Diesel?

Skyline2uk

I have an A4 (Wild Swan) and the DP1 + a green Deltic and as for Western diesels only 6 x class 52, 6 x class 42, 3 x class 35, 3 x class 22, a class 14 and 3 x class 47s :D


If I recall, you are not a fan of DCC sound

Sorry, but  :no:

*cough* obviously too late , but I have three ER TSOs for sale in the N'porium at this very moment.


Drat. Sorry. However, if Rails are short of stock I could well be back to you
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 16, 2018, 08:32:21 pm
 :laughabovepost:

Shame on me for not paying attention to Kimbolted thread  :-[

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Dr Al on May 16, 2018, 09:09:33 pm
My first batch Blue HST from Dapol went back as a hot over-current runner (drew a horrid 300mA, should be <125mA). Subsequent sets have all been fine.

Lights are prone to failure - the components on the PCBs are very poor quality - the diodes in particular die. Coupling heights can be a a bit varied, and there can be dragging of the flanges on the undersides of the chassis (this can be modified easily to avoid).

However, the Dapol model does run well, you can fit light bars to the coaches which work well on DC and are impressive. I think most imperatively the nose shape and lighting has been captured extremely well, and it exudes the character of the prototype.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: RailGooner on May 16, 2018, 10:35:30 pm
Do it, I doubt you'll regret it.

I love my 2+9 FGW Dynamic Lines train. I plan on getting a full GWR train too. If Dapol were to release 'celebrity' power car sets, I'd buy them also!

One of Dapol's finest models IMHO. They've captured the look and presence of the prototype very well. There are some roof inaccuracies - which I don't mind - and they wouldn't be Dapol models if there weren't some livery faults. But if you swoon at the beauty of the prototype you'll not be disappointed by this model.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Intercity on May 17, 2018, 09:19:04 pm
You won’t stop at just one, I thought I could but here are four on the test track, all Dapol sets

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/65/6050-170518211055.jpeg)

I also have the NMT one, eventually I’ll convert some Dapol coaches to go with it.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 17, 2018, 09:36:54 pm
You won’t stop at just one


Oh yes I will. I am a strictly transition era modeller who bought a Pendolino to help get the project over the line and still believe I'll sell it on, and I bought the HST purely as it being the icon it was/is exactly as per the TV programme. It won't fit in with anything else I have so will be given a run out only now and then in privacy ;) Other icons I'd like are the diesels 'Kestrel', 'Falcon' and 'Lion' but I can't see these coming out as RTR in the time I have left on this planet :( :(
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 18, 2018, 12:07:48 pm
The multi coloured worm has landed. A huge  :thankyousign: to @njee20 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) for the advice on which extra carriages to get, but now here comes a transition modellers question. What would be the correct composition of the train please? The book set contains 2 x driving cars, a restaurant buffet (E40424) and an unknown [to me] (E44047) and my purchases were 3 x TS and 1 x TF (sorry @Yet_Another (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4156) if only I'd seen yours)
Review now to be posted.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 18, 2018, 12:16:54 pm
Hi Nobby

I am assuming the “unknown” in your box set is a TGS (trailer guard second).

This is spotted by a short section without windows, normally found next to a Power Car.

If so, I would arrange your purchase thus:

PC + TGS + TS + TS + TS + Buffet + TF + PC

If you ever wish to expand the rake, add a TF next to your existing one and / or a TS with its fellows.

Skyline2uk

EDIT: According to Hattons, E44047 is indeed a TGS
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 18, 2018, 12:33:22 pm
@Skyline2uk (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1081)
Ta muchly for that. I didn't think they'd put the 1st class TF at the rear as it makes all those posh folks have to walk further to the exit gate, or should I be reading the formation from right to left?
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 18, 2018, 01:06:11 pm
@Skyline2uk ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1081[/url])
Ta muchly for that. I didn't think they'd put the 1st class TF at the rear as it makes all those posh folks have to walk further to the exit gate, or should I be reading the formation from right to left?


It rather depends which end London is on your layout ;D

Can’t speak definitively for Eastern Region, but HSTs out of Paddington have their First Class at the end closest to the buffers.

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 18, 2018, 01:49:34 pm
@Skyline2uk ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1081[/url])
Ta muchly for that. I didn't think they'd put the 1st class TF at the rear as it makes all those posh folks have to walk further to the exit gate, or should I be reading the formation from right to left?


It rather depends which end London is on your layout ;D

Can’t speak definitively for Eastern Region, but HSTs out of Paddington have their First Class at the end closest to the buffers.

Skyline2uk


So would that alter your..........


PC + TGS + TS + TS + TS + Buffet + TF + PC



........or should I just reverse everything between the PCs in that?
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 18, 2018, 02:02:59 pm
If London is on the left as you read this post, you are correct sir  :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: woodbury22uk on May 18, 2018, 02:21:04 pm
I would like to welcome @Newportnobby (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) to the 1980s. I hope your stay will be a pleasant one. Exit to Pendolino land or transition era by entering that large blue police box and twiddling some knobs.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 18, 2018, 02:28:13 pm
I would like to welcome @Newportnobby ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264[/url]) to the 1980s. I hope your stay will be a pleasant one. Exit to Pendolino land or transition era by entering that large blue police box and twiddling some knobs.


 :laughabovepost: :smiley-laughing: :laughabovepost:

You twiddle your own knobs now.... :worried:

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Newportnobby on May 19, 2018, 11:09:10 am
I would like to welcome @Newportnobby ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264[/url]) to the 1980s. I hope your stay will be a pleasant one. Exit to Pendolino land or transition era by entering that large blue police box and twiddling some knobs.


Now come on, Mike @woodbury22uk (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1599) , every transition modeller knows the 125s were introduced before the 1980s. I will be visiting the late 1970s on a very sporadic basis but don't tell anyone else please. I have a reputation to keep up ;)
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: RailGooner on May 19, 2018, 12:00:33 pm
I would like to welcome @Newportnobby ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264[/url]) to the 1980s. I hope your stay will be a pleasant one. Exit to Pendolino land or transition era by entering that large blue police box and twiddling some knobs.


Now come on, Mike @woodbury22uk ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1599[/url]) , every transition modeller knows the 125s were introduced before the 1980s. I will be visiting the late 1970s on a very sporadic basis but don't tell anyone else please. I have a reputation to keep up ;)


What happens in the train room, stays in the train room. :D
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Yet_Another on May 19, 2018, 12:32:53 pm
On a prototypical note, I remember getting most of them, in my teenage train spotting days, from the number scrawled on the front of the cabs in the workshops at BREL Crewe. They are all pink under the paint.

I also remember the thrill of walking through the entire length of a pair that had come back 'light engine', while they were still ticking away as they cooled down. It was good enough that we'd seen the pair earlier in the day, from the end of the station.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: woodbury22uk on May 19, 2018, 02:01:11 pm
I would like to welcome @Newportnobby ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264[/url]) to the 1980s. I hope your stay will be a pleasant one. Exit to Pendolino land or transition era by entering that large blue police box and twiddling some knobs.


Now come on, Mike @woodbury22uk ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1599[/url]) , every transition modeller knows the 125s were introduced before the 1980s. I will be visiting the late 1970s on a very sporadic basis but don't tell anyone else please. I have a reputation to keep up ;)


It has a TGS which was definitely a 1980 novelty, and exhaust deflectors which were a late 1970s mod to keep the windscreens cleaner. But whatever the era these were the pinnacle of diesel powered Inter-City trains, and I might even buy one.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Yet_Another on June 04, 2018, 08:54:42 pm
Quick question regarding the livery of the original power cars: were the Western and Eastern units essentially the same, apart from the numbers?

I find myself in need of another pair of Western units, but only the 2D-019-005 Eastern ones seem to be available, and I'm hoping that a simple renumber can be achieved.
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: njee20 on June 04, 2018, 08:56:38 pm
Yep!
Title: Re: Class 43 HST125
Post by: Yet_Another on June 04, 2018, 09:09:07 pm
Super!