N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: exmouthcraig on February 27, 2018, 09:37:40 am

Title: W class tank
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 27, 2018, 09:37:40 am
Good morning,

Ideally I fancy a couple of W class tank locomotives on my layout. Yes they were death traps apparently BUT there was a couple of them used for a bit of shed work and shunting where we're modelling.

Unless I can get a 3d print designed and built (not something im capable of) what are the reasons for not using BR Class 4T as a renumbered equivalent?

W class had 2-6-4T with 3' 1" pony, 5' 6" drivers and 3' 1" trailing. 90T weight. 44' overall

Class 4T had 2-6-4T with 3' pony, 5' 8" drivers and 3' trailing. 86T weight. 44' overall

Are there MASSIVE differences between boiler size and will be noticeable straight away OR with renumbering would it be hard to tell the difference? ??
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 27, 2018, 09:50:57 am
YES!!!!There are MASSIVE differences between the two  :sorrysign:

So I will have to stick it on the dream list like my 18 BoB and WC

 :censored:
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 27, 2018, 09:57:40 am
If you feel brave you could maybe use a Farish N class, keep an eye peeled for a suitable tank  cab and side tanks among Ebay spares and repairs listings. Otherwise a 3D print to fit the N class chassis.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 27, 2018, 10:02:31 am
Thanks Mike,

Hmmmm  :hmmm: we have 3 of the farish N class. They are absolutely brilliant chassis. Think id cry butchering one. So if thats the way to go I now need to just to work out 3-d printing a body for it  (like that's 10mins work) :doh:
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Bob G on February 27, 2018, 10:16:32 am
You all know how i like anything southern (why did i say that in a Lousiana accent. Yee Hah!)

Well i have a Fowler 4F 0-6-0 waiting for an N class tender to become a Maunsell Q class.
And that would leave me with an N class 2-6-0 powered chassis...
I'll have a W too, if it helps :)
No where is Alex Rockey when you need him... Or Mr Atso.

Bob
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on February 27, 2018, 10:43:47 am
Hi

I had exactly the same thoughts regarding a W a few months back as I bought an N in SECR livery very cheaply and wondered what I could do with it. I chatted to someone in the know to get ideas on a guide price to do the 3D work for a body to fit the N chassis, with a rear bogie from a 4MT or maybe in brass. The estimated costs just for doing the 3D work and producing a master from which resin castings could be made was over £750. When you then add in the cost of producing the resin body, maybe an etched rear bogie, fettling, etc. you would be looking at around £45 - £50 for a body kit.

I am happy to determine if there was enough interest to go ahead via this forum. I haven't done any more due to other commitments but would be interested in producing a body kit IF I could find someone to do the 3D work to a good standard. I could certainly do with a couple for "Brickmakers Lane"....

Dave
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: CarriageShed on February 27, 2018, 11:15:10 am
There's a chap on the 'other' forum who prints 3D for N gauge and seems quite interested in producing more, even loco bodies. Might be worth dropping him a line to see what he says. His site is here: http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/ (http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/)
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 27, 2018, 11:25:30 am
Well I think I can justify 2 or 3 so is there someone who can help us find someone to make us a damn good example rather then a representation of them?

The N chassis is perfect on dcc at crawling so we need a body to match the precision of that.

Failing this can we remake the Z to work on the new farish 8F chassis? I'd have multiple numbers of each but prefer the look of the W
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on February 27, 2018, 11:26:04 am
Thanks for the contact. I have emailed rue d'etropal and await their response.

As a guide, how many people would be prepared to commit to buying one or more should I get things moving? PM me if you are interested!

Dave
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 27, 2018, 11:32:15 am
Dave PM sent
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Bob G on February 27, 2018, 11:33:42 am
I'll have one.
it would save me selling a perfectly good N chassis :)
Bob
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: CarriageShed on February 27, 2018, 01:03:56 pm
They're a little bit too late for me so I'll have to stick with my Class Z.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: dodger on February 27, 2018, 01:16:40 pm
Would it be possible to use a modify a Farish N gauge body and chassis as they were built from uncompleted class N kits supplied to Woolwich Arsenal. The boilers were identical.

Dodger
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on February 27, 2018, 02:15:18 pm
I looked at modifying a Farish body, but when you look at how good the detail is on that and then think about how good you could make the revised front footplate and cab/tank/bunker assembly.... 

I didn't think I could make something that would look as good and thought it would stand out as being grafted on. But if you are a skilled modeller or are not worried about the overall finish then it could be done as in general the bulk of the boiler/chassis is broadly the same, apart from minor differences in wheelbase and also the tapered cylinder block.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: thebrighton on February 27, 2018, 02:54:32 pm
I investigated building one a while back but the stumbling block was the very prominent steps that cover the valve gear. There is no way you could omit them but the width of 'N' over the cylinders make them a problem unless you were happy to build it over wide which would threaten passengers on platforms ;) .
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 27, 2018, 04:59:56 pm
Mine won't go near platforms. Shunting in the yard and she'd no platform edges. Middle 2 roads at station and into the station yard again no edges to catch.

It has to be an exact scale model for me, we can't cut corners or make excuses for it not being spot on.

But we only discover these issues when we try. With the leaps made in 3d printing can this 1 particular problem be overcome? ???
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on February 27, 2018, 05:04:42 pm
I agree that it needs to be as close to prototype as possible. Maybe brass steps are the answer, but only a detailed review and 3D drawing would reveal what is and isnít possible  in my view. I have had a reply from Rue ĎEstopal and he seems interested. I have gone back with some more queries and await his reply.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 27, 2018, 05:06:22 pm
Perfect. Are we hoping to fit this onto the farish N chassis dave?
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on February 27, 2018, 05:09:44 pm
I think that is a good start, yes.
Title: !!
Post by: Southerngooner on March 09, 2018, 09:49:37 am
Sorry for the delay in posting an update, but here is where I am with this at the moment. I have mailed Roe D'Estropal and his comment was that he has a few other projects that he is working on, but he might make a start to see how it goes. Nothing too firm there, but given that only three people from this forum replied to say they might be interested, probably resulting in five or six orders, then it is clear to me that even with a lot more publicity it would probably be difficult to shift the 50 or so that may have been needed to make it profitable as a strictly N Gauge model. Simon at Rue D'Estropal works in other gauges too so it may be more effective as a design to fit more scales. This may make it a bit generic in terms of chassis installation, but I am sure the N would be a good donor. I suggest all we can do is wait and see!

In the meantime I'm going to look again at whether I could convert my SECR livery N into a W.......progress reports as and when I get round to it!
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on May 04, 2018, 07:32:45 am
To any of those forum members who were interested in the SR W class tank your prayers have been answered! After a short delay Simon from Rue díEtropal got in touch and after a few photos and drawings from me has now designed a body for 3D printing. Itís available on his website and costs around £25 including postage. My order is in......
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Bob G on May 04, 2018, 07:46:36 am
Thatís amazing news.
Iíve used the tender of a N class for the tender of a Fowler 4F to Maunsell Q class conversion.
I was wondering what to do with the 2-6-0 chassis! Problem solved.
Bob
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 04, 2018, 09:06:08 am
I really need to order one of these so what chassis do I need, N class been mentioned - is that what it is designed for or is it designed generically?

Advice appreciated!

Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 04, 2018, 09:16:45 am
Thatís amazing news.
Iíve used the tender of a N class for the tender of a Fowler 4F to Maunsell Q class conversion.
I was wondering what to do with the 2-6-0 chassis! Problem solved.
Bob

Apologies for the hijack but do you have any more information about your Q conversion? I am really interested in doing one myself.

Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Bob G on May 04, 2018, 10:55:32 am
Hi Simon

Iím in Denmark right now.
PM me your email address and I will send you my notes on the Q class on Monday.

I started a thread on here so look out for my 4F to Q thread too.
Iím using the N cab as a close looking but not 100% correct cab, and if you model the Q class with the standard 4MT replacement chimney you donít need to change that.
The only thing you cannot model easily is the undercut look of the firebox because the chassis gearbox is wider on the 4F than on the N class.

Best
Bob
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 04, 2018, 12:36:59 pm
One W class ordered.

Anybody got any idea how long before delivery?
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: CarriageShed on May 04, 2018, 01:14:32 pm
It'll be interesting to see what progress is made with these. Photos people, please.

Anybody got any idea how long before delivery?

Should be two or three days. I'm working on the six-wheel SECR brake van 'kit' right now and that arrived within about three days I think.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: thebrighton on May 04, 2018, 01:24:20 pm
One W class ordered.
Anybody got any idea how long before delivery?
If it's from Shapeways you can track your order through processing to production and it tells you when they expect to ship it.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on May 04, 2018, 03:01:01 pm
It should fit the N but it is just designed as a body 1mm thick so chassis needs brackets fixing inside body to fit
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Bob G on May 05, 2018, 12:02:27 am
The body is described as available in WSF, FUD and FXD. Given there are no handrails on the print, what would you recommend as the best print medium?
Bob
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 07, 2018, 04:30:57 pm
Email says despatched via UPS 24 - 48 hour. Better set me alarm for a couple of days.

Has anyone yet tried one on an Nclass chassis?

Presume some weight will be needed, I would guess in the side tanks?
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: thebrighton on May 07, 2018, 05:13:59 pm
The body is described as available in WSF, FUD and FXD. Given there are no handrails on the print, what would you recommend as the best print medium?
Bob
WSF - rough surface that doesn't sand well and you won't get it smooth and doesn't like glues. Personally think it's ok for larger scales where other mediums work out very expensive due to size.
FUD - more brittle and may suffer from layering but can be sanded smooth. Much better detail.
FXD - I'm awaiting receipt of an item in this but similar to FUD but hopefully smoother as each layer much thinner.
As an example here is the same coach, one in WSF and one in FUD. No work has been carried out except a wash then a dusting of primer. It's not hard to see the difference. WSF is much cheaper but from my experience a waste of money. For not much more you have a starting point that is far superior.
(https://i.imgur.com/U4qlUzV.jpg)
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on May 08, 2018, 08:14:43 am
I will be using the N chassis and hope to be able to make a rear bogie that will collect current so that the traction tyres can remain. I have some thoughts but need to get on the workbench and have a better look. Given that the Farish N body is very light I assume that the weight of the W will be similar, but I assume there will be spaces in the tanks for a bit of weight should it be needed. My N is a good hauler so hopefully it will remain so when added to the W body!
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 08, 2018, 10:11:14 am
UPS tracking tell me it'll be here tomorrow.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Bob G on May 16, 2018, 06:44:50 pm
Has anybody got their W body yet?
Mine arrived yesterday.

In terms of chassis the Standard 4MT and Fairburn 4MT are too wide to use without machining, and in any case the valve gear looks wrong and the cylinders are angled not straight.
The cylinders are not quite right on the N but it looks like it will fit nicely once there is space for the motor block to slot into the front of the boiler, as it needs about 6mm or 1/4" cut out of the FUD.
The valve gear doesn't sit happily behind the steps - but the steps could be mounted on a support going through the chassis beneath the existing boiler - not tried that yet, and not sure how far out the steps would sit.
I'm thinking of an M7 trailing bogie, if they are available from DCC supplies, or i could cannibalise the whole bogie and pick up unit from the Dapol chassis, perhaps?

Any other thoughts?
Bob
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on May 16, 2018, 07:24:55 pm
Hi Bob

I am pleased to hear it looks good! Mine still hasnít reached deepest France....

I think the Farish 4MT or Fairburn rear bogie would be better than the M7, no solid wheels! I assumed I would have to thin or remake the big side steps, and had also thought that the cylinders might be able to be reshaped or replaced by a set from something else. Letís see.....

Dave
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 26, 2018, 11:45:44 am
This clumsy/heavy handed dumkopf has managed to loose the steps, now contemplating either oredering another or attempting a bodge job. I re-wrapped it in its bubble wrap to take to the local area group meet, got bback home and took it out - oops no steps. :censored: :censored: :censored:

If I do get another then I'll use the front end buffer beam to hack an N into an N1.

Is it necessary to remove the keeper plate from a Farish N to get the chassis out? Front end is clear after removing pony truck but the back end appears to be fastened somewhere.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 26, 2018, 12:20:23 pm
Reordered, whilst so doing saw they also have the ex LSWR F9  "Drummonds Bug"  4-2-4 "inspection saloon" so ordered that as well.   (images linked from Google)

(https://images1.sw-cdn.net/product/picture/710x528_23366193_12924534_1525862913.jpg)

(https://pre00.deviantart.net/6e10/th/pre/i/2015/228/6/0/lswr_drummond_f9_inspection_saloon_by_rlkitterman-d95znjx.jpg)

That could be fun to motorise, probably a Japanese motor bogie?
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Bob G on May 26, 2018, 03:33:10 pm

Is it necessary to remove the keeper plate from a Farish N to get the chassis out? Front end is clear after removing pony truck but the back end appears to be fastened somewhere.

The N chassis is harder to get out than the 4F, but once the three or four screws are undone it does pull off. I think it seems to have nibs/latches/elves at the cab end as well as screws, that hang on like billio.
The bottom of the boiler is part of the chassis that supports the motor. The PCB is in the tender (thus making it easy to have sound in the tender).

HTH
Bob
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on June 04, 2018, 10:58:04 pm
Has anybody thought of using a Farish 4MT 2-6-4T chassis?, prototype drivers are 5'8" against W class 5'7" and overall length is not far out.

Same problem with both is the need to reshape the top of the cylinders to slope inwards.

I'm wondering if the W ckass body that  I've lost the front steps from could become a SECR K class?
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on June 07, 2018, 01:17:13 pm
Doom and gloom!!!!!!! the space between the  :censored: great steps at front end of tanks  is not wide enough to clear the valve gear on the N class nor the 4MT tank! Also the front end of the chassis block on the N class is a bit long at the front  meaning that a bit will need cutting out of the bottom of the boiler and saddle although this will not be visible when assembled. I'm wracking me brains to figure a way round the steps fouling the motion, trying to squeeze the motion inwards is likely to invite lock ups, the steps themselves have already proven a bit delicate so can't file them thinner; a more drastic measure might be to carefully remove the complete sides of tanks and cab complete with steps add a spacing piece and replace tank and cab sides, OK so it''ll be 1 or 2 mm extra width but surely easier than remaking the valve gear

I'm thinking that the one I have with broken off steps will definitely  get hacked into a K class, probably using the 4MT chassis; swap the front end of the footplate and buffer beam with that of the N class which is providing the chassis (for the W) so it can be used to make it into a U1 when I find a suitable chasis with 6' drivers.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Bob G on June 07, 2018, 01:44:14 pm
Hi Mike
Not doom and gloom.

Iím going to stick with the N chassis and maybe4MTbogie except the M7 is at least a current connecting bogie.

I was thinking of mounting the big steps on a brass bracket and having them stick out beyond the valve gear.

Wonít know until Iíve tried it.
Bob

Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: thebrighton on June 07, 2018, 01:52:03 pm
The steps were always going to be a problem (see my post #14). It is the limitations of N. They are very prominent so omitting them isn't really an option but to get them to hang outside of the valve gear, have the recessess and still be securely attached you need to make the body overly wide and you will then encounter your platforms! It's a loco I've always wanted to build but always gave up on for this reason.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on June 07, 2018, 06:38:34 pm
Iím glad my layout doesnít have any platforms! I only got my model on Tuesday and am en route home to France where I shall make fiddling about with it a top priority. I assumed the steps might need to be replaced by ones fabricated from the the best brass/NS possible, but Iíll have to see. As this is my first 3D printed model Iím keen to see how things glue to it - do I need something like ABS or will Mekpak be any good?

The plastic also seems very brittle - I managed to break off a front step while trying to repack it to prevent damage to the other steps. Still, they would have had to come off anyway to let the front pony swing......
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: thebrighton on June 07, 2018, 07:52:51 pm
Which material did you opt for? FUD/FXD takes superglue but WSF doesn't particularly like any glue!
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Southerngooner on June 08, 2018, 06:10:20 am
I went for FUD so will try my usual range of superglues! Thanks for the response.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on June 14, 2018, 02:39:51 pm
The W with broken steps being hacked to a K class hack using a 4MT chassis is in progress; the front end has been swapped with that from the N class body that is donating its chassis to the W; the bit that protrudes from the top front of the cylinder block needs to be shortened a bit so that the chassis can be as far forward in the body as possible for things to line up somewhere near correct; the rear bogie on the 4MT needs the wheelbase shortened to 6'/12mm, that should bring the rear wheels under the bunker rather than under the buffer beam!

A couple of minor mods to the body, the small window at the front of the cabside needs filling and the hole at the front bottom of the tanks also to be filled then make a small round hole for oiling access. Cut a piece of plastic same thickness as the tank side to fit the hole, a very thin piece plastic glued inside the tank when set put the cut to size piece in place then apply superglue; for the cab window similar thin plastick inside but use milliput to fill the hole.
Title: Re: W class tank
Post by: Dorsetmike on June 14, 2018, 05:35:41 pm
Further progress the K is progressing but not much happening to the W as yet.

Tank side holes covered, found some bits of white metal left over from a previous hack, 2 pieces, one in each tank, fitted, should help tracion a bit.

There's not really a secure fixing point for the front screw so I've filled the boiler with pieces of plastic tube 3 pices of different diameters that fit inside each other, should be able to drill and tap to take the Farish screw.

I'm going to have a hunt through the glory boxes to see if I can find a 6' bogie not being at my normal work bench my attempt to drill new axle holes erred nearer 5' than 6', it'd probably run OK but looks daft. Somebody in a previous post suggested M7 bogie, that's closer at 6'6" but fitting it behind a 4MT chassis could be awkward.

The W now has a slot in the underside of the boiler to accomodate the chassis block.