DJ Models class 17 Clayton

Started by Dalek, February 03, 2018, 02:03:25 PM

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njee20

Quote from: RailGooner on May 13, 2018, 09:57:57 PM
Presumably to ensure they get the business when the project is resumed. :censored: bandits. :veryangry:

I'm just struggling to believe that's how any factory would operate. It'd work for about a month!

ohlavache

This is really bad news and I believe it is even worse for Dave who is the initiator of this project.
We can only hope that the class 17 will come back in some years...


Snowwolflair

Having run factories in the far East, it comes as no surprise.  My guess is that there is a commercial standoff along the following lines.

I know you have paid us upfront for the CAD and EPs and that we have a contract and agreed price, but our costs have just gone up and we cannot move forward until you pay us more money.  As we have spent more than you have paid us so far we are not prepared to release the CAD or EPs either until you pay us more money.  Oh by the way we trade under Chinese contract law, which allows us to adjust a contract to reflect true cost, you don't have a legal leg to stand on.  By the way we are also doing this because someone paying us more (probably as a backhander) has just bought your manufacturing slot.  Welcome to doing business in China.

Snowwolflair

One last thought.

The Chinese are quite focused in their business dealings, seriously researching their clients to see what price they can screw out of them. 

You can be sure they monitor both the DJM website and our various forums discussing his products. 

Lets hope they have not drawn the conclusion that Dave was vulnerable due to the public criticism, and therefore open to being strong armed on price something they do to each other all the time.

guest311

Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 14, 2018, 02:02:54 PM
Having run factories in the far East, it comes as no surprise.  My guess is that there is a commercial standoff along the following lines.

I know you have paid us upfront for the CAD and EPs and that we have a contract and agreed price, but our costs have just gone up and we cannot move forward until you pay us more money.  As we have spent more than you have paid us so far we are not prepared to release the CAD or EPs either until you pay us more money.  Oh by the way we trade under Chinese contract law, which allows us to adjust a contract to reflect true cost, you don't have a legal leg to stand on.  By the way we are also doing this because someone paying us more (probably as a backhander) has just bought your manufacturing slot.  Welcome to doing business in China.

answer ?

made in britain, and sod china !

emjaybee

Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 14, 2018, 03:46:40 PM
One last thought.

The Chinese are quite focused in their business dealings, seriously researching their clients to see what price they can screw out of them. 

You can be sure they monitor both the DJM website and our various forums discussing his products. 

Lets hope they have not drawn the conclusion that Dave was vulnerable due to the public criticism, and therefore open to being strong armed on price something they do to each other all the time.

In the grand scheme of things (in business terms) DJM's contracts are pretty small so I think it's far more likely that a bigger more profitable job came along and they shelved DJM's work. I hardly think they're going to monitor the NGF and decide they can screw him down for 'another' £500k. I think that's stretching reality a bit my friend.
Brookline build thread:

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50207.msg652736#msg652736

Sometimes you bite the dog...

...sometimes the dog bites you!

----------------------------------------------------------

I can explain it to you...

...but I can't understand it for you.

Portpatrick

Quote from: class37025 on May 14, 2018, 07:59:28 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 14, 2018, 02:02:54 PM
Having run factories in the far East, it comes as no surprise.  My guess is that there is a commercial standoff along the following lines.

I know you have paid us upfront for the CAD and EPs and that we have a contract and agreed price, but our costs have just gone up and we cannot move forward until you pay us more money.  As we have spent more than you have paid us so far we are not prepared to release the CAD or EPs either until you pay us more money.  Oh by the way we trade under Chinese contract law, which allows us to adjust a contract to reflect true cost, you don't have a legal leg to stand on.  By the way we are also doing this because someone paying us more (probably as a backhander) has just bought your manufacturing slot.  Welcome to doing business in China.

answer ?

made in britain, and sod china !

Life almost certainly is not that simple - as when Grafar moved production nearly 20 years ago there would be a famine for a long while if they attempted to move production.  Not least because the Chinese would probably not release the machinery.   But the sentiment is understandable.  If that is the far Eastern attitude to their customers, not least if they habitually break promises then good riddance to them.  I would not want to do business on that basis.

koyli55002

Hard to know what the answer is - especially in the long term.
Personally, I've believed for years that the Chinese "low cost production" would last only as long as was needed to ensure that the other nations' manufacturing base for the product in question was well and truly dead in the water.
THEN, once you have the buyers on their knees and with little choice where to go for their product, you hike the price up and up.
Additionally, of course, buyers trying then to switch to another country of manufacture would, in all probability, incur the (already well documented) problems of such as "missing" or "broken" tooling, having to educate a whole new supplier in the niceties of quality control, the need for them to at least provide some semblance of a time frame, etc......... 
Not just the Western nations falling foul of these practices either, I suspect. Japan and Korea especially must be looking over their shoulders by now. From my own experience, the Korean shipyards are already feeling the pain from their neighbours across the sea.

Snowwolflair

And where will the next cheap manufacturing base with a well educated workforce come from?

North Korea of course.  I give it ten years and our models will be made there.

woodbury22uk

#144
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 14, 2018, 08:42:27 PM
And where will the next cheap manufacturing base with a well educated workforce come from?

North Korea of course.  I give it ten years and our models will be made there.

Bangladesh is already a major diecast vehicle producer for Ixo and Atlas Editions. When Hornby took over Arnold/Lima much of the better Lima N tooling never made it from Italy, and some of the 00 gauge items found their way to another range (Vi-trains).
Mike

Membre AFAN 0196

Newportnobby

Be interesting to hear more from Dave especially as he's reading this at the moment ;) ;)

DJM Dave

Hi,
i'm not going to add to this thread at this time, as i dont think i can say anything without possibly making the situation regarding the tools etc worse, as someone pointed out in an earlier message.....'walls have ears'.

sorry, maybe when things are sorted or its dead completely i'll say more.
cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

emjaybee

#147
Here's hoping that you can get summat else rolling soon.

:thumbsup:

(I'd love to see the N J94!)

:D
Brookline build thread:

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50207.msg652736#msg652736

Sometimes you bite the dog...

...sometimes the dog bites you!

----------------------------------------------------------

I can explain it to you...

...but I can't understand it for you.

WesternKing

Anyone got a Parkwood Kit Clayton to sell? I sold mine 5 years ago in anticipation of the DJ version.

Portpatrick

Sorry keeping my Parkwood until something better appears

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